I'll pretty much give you a loud "BINGO" on your answer, although, IMO, it needs
to be touched up a bit.
The key sources for most of the information re. this matter is Jerry Bruno's,
"The Advance Man", the HSCA account, and O'Donnell's WC testimony.
Bruno made the advance trip for the Sec. Svc. about a month prior to the
assassinaton. He reported back that the Trade Mart was unsuitable for security
reasons...three tiers, etc.
The WH Sec. Svc., based on Bruno's recommendations decided the luncheon would be
at the Women's Center, which was east of downtown Dallas.
Everyone with the power to make such decisions (Ken O'Donnell, Jerry Behn (the
Chief of the WH Sec. Svc. detail), and, going from memory, even JFK), agreed.
When JBC, however, found out the Women's Center had been the choice, he
threatened to pull out his state-wide support for the Democratic
ticket....unless the luncheon would be held at the Trade Mart. No need to
discuss why JBC didn't want the Women's Center....but his reasons were purely
political...security wasn't on his mind.
O'Donell and the Dallas Sec. Svc. bent to JBC's "demands"....they really had no
choice...it was a form of political blackmail by JBS,
O'Donnell testified, "We acquiesced to his wishes."
Truth is he had little choice.
Sorrells, of course, said there'd be no problem securing the TM....ya sure, the
politically correct statement. What was he going to say, "Well there's a
security risk but we'll go there anyway?" Sure.
Anyway, when O'Donnell informed Bruno they had decided on the TM, Bruno was
furious.....and, IMO, in his book "implied" JBC caused the death of JFK.
Had the luncheon been at the Women's Center, the MC would have traveled through
DP heading east (faster than it traveled on Elm street heading to the TM).
Moreover, Jackie would have been sitting between the JFK and the TSBD. IOW, only
idiots would have planted a sniper or a patsy there.
The bottom line is that, because: 1) LHO was hired at the TSBD in Sept., 2) the
change to the luncheon site (TM) was made only a little over a week prior to the
assassination, and 3) JBC is the main [only?] reason the site was changed, all
the CT theories that suggest LHO was involved in one way or another with the
plot have an inherent hole....or at the very least a somewhat implausible weak
aspect [in their theory].
Oh, BTW, re. all the sometimes rather uncivil arguing we did some time ago,
there will be an article that I wish you'd read that will most likely be
published in a pretty prominent on-line publication (we hope/expect that some of
the major newspapers will also re-print it) in the next few weeks. I assure you
there is new and surprising information in it and at least you and VB might be
taken aback.
>We'll see.
Yes, we will.
:-)
John Canal
--
John Canal
jca...@webtv.net
So what? Connally thought it was more modern and more attractive.
> (and that luncheon location decision led directly to the murdercade
> route decision)
>
Not the turn.
And they could get to the Trade Mart directly from Love Field without
going down Main Street at all. They could have taken a direct route and
avoided Dealey Plaza. But the whole point of a motorcade was to go through
the center of the city so there would be crowds.
> Basically, after a certain date, LBJ's decades longtime friend and LBJ
> campaigns manager personally and via others politico-messaged/
> blackmailed to WH Texas trip decision-makers....
>
> "It's my way, or, no Texas trip",
>
> ....and (are you aware?) that one of several Texas trip advancemen
> has publicly stated that Connally lied about a key discussion with the
> WH. (the Connally lies were discovered by this advanceman and the WH
> only after 11-22-63)
>
Quote please.
> Of course (predictably) after Dallas, when Connally gave his
> testimonies and public statements, he transparently tried to downplay
> and minimize his management involvements in the whole Texas trip
> behind-the-scenes plans, despite records and other trip managers
> statements that document he was heavily involved.
>
> For further exploration, there are several key considerations and
> actions that made up Connally's "insistence" on wanting/insisting that
> the murdercade flow to the Trade Mart.
>
> Which ones are you aware of?
>
> Also, are you aware of what event and location, instead of the
> eventual murdercade/Trade Mart luncheon, was, early on, first slotted
> by planners into the Texas trip original plans for the same 11-22-63
> hours?
>
>
If you have a wacky theory, just spit it out.
> Best Regards in Research,
>
> Don
>
>
> Donald Roberdeau
> U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
> Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly
>
> For your considerations....
>
> Homepage: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and
> Assassination Evidence,Witnesses, Suspects + Outstanding
> Researchers Discoveries and Considerations....
> http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html
>
>
> Dealey Plaza Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise locations,
> Witnesses, Films& Photos, Evidence, Suspected bullet trajectories,
> Important information& Considerations, in One Convenient
Who cares about traffic laws? They blocked off the streets. They could go
down a one-way street the wrong way if they wanted to. They did not have
to stop for red lights.
There were several different ways to get to the Trade Mart, but they
wanted to go through the heart of the city, i.e. Dealey Plaza. They could
have stayed on Main Street. If JFK had been hit while on Main Street I'm
sure the same kooks would be pointing fingers at who designed the
motorcade to go down Main Street. Or Stemmons Freeway. Or whatever street.
> This is an important matter as far as trying to determine whether there
> was an assassinaton conspiracy and I can see you haven't read up on it.
>
I see that you have another wacky theory. We have been over this 1,000
times before.
>>>> So what?
>>>
>>> So my point is that you'd think before making charges that the USG
>>> conspired to assassinate JFK you'd do your homework.....but nope, just
>>> shoot from the hip.
>>
>> I never accused the USG of conspiring to assassinate JFK. You just love
>> to make up false charges after you've lost the argument.
>
> It doesn't matter who you think orchestrated the conspiracy.....this is
> about evidence that supports NO CONSPIRACY...of any kind, USG, Mafia,
> Castro, Russia, Anti-Castro groups, whomever!
>
Yet, you can have your own conspiracy theory. Not fair.
> I haven't lost the argument...you did, but you don't know enough about
> this aspect of the case to realize it.
>
> I'm just waiting to see who else chimes in with an answer before I point
> you to the answer and one of the most important ciations re. this case.
>
I am not a fan of mystery questions. If you have a wacky theory just tell
us. I don't care who you think was responsible. I just know that you will
accuse him of being the mastermind of the assassination. Otherwise what
difference does it make who insisted on the Trade Mart?
So THAT's your Top Secret conspiracy theory? That Connally was the
mastermind of the JFK assassination. That's why he wanted to ride in the
same car as his victim, so that he could be accidentally shot? Your
conspiracy theory falls apart when we learn that the turn in front of the
TSBD was not necessary and Connally had no part in deciding to make that
turn.
Time for you to make up a new conspiracy theory.
> O'Donell and the Dallas Sec. Svc. bent to JBC's "demands"....they really had no
> choice...it was a form of political blackmail by JBS,
>
So now it's a John Birch Society plot? Boy this goes deeper than we
thought. ;]>
> O'Donnell testified, "We acquiesced to his wishes."
>
> Truth is he had little choice.
>
> Sorrells, of course, said there'd be no problem securing the TM....ya sure, the
> politically correct statement. What was he going to say, "Well there's a
> security risk but we'll go there anyway?" Sure.
>
Well, in point of fact he explained that any security problems were
manageable.
On November 4, 1963, Gerald Behn, special agent in charge (hereafter SAIC)
of the White House detail of the Secret Service, telephoned Forrest
Sorrels, the SAIC of the Dallas field office, stating that the President
would probably be visiting Dallas "about November 21" and that two
buildings had been suggested for a luncheon site. (118) One was the Trade
Mart, which according to Behn's Information had about 60 entrances and 6
catwalks suspended above the floor area where the luncheon was planned.
The second was the Women's Building at the fair grounds, whose structure
and appearance Behn did not, according to Sorrels, describe in equally
complete detail.(119)
On that same day, Sorrels made a survey of both locations and reported
back to Behn by telephone. He stated that he and Special Agent (Hereafter
SA) Bob Steuart of the Dallas office had visited the Trade Mart and the
Women's Building. Sorrels reported that the Women's Building was
preferable from the standpoint of security because the building had only
two entrances at either end, each of which was large enough to permit only
one car to pass through. (120) Nevertheless, Sorrels told Behn that the
Women's Building "was not satisfactory for that [Presidential] type of
function" because of its low ceilings, exposed air-conditioning, and
highly visible steel suspension supports. As for the Trade Mart, Sorrels
told Behn that because of the many entrances and exits in the Trade Mart,
there would be a problem of acquiring sufficient manpower to cover all
areas securely. (121)
Sorrels did not say that the Trade Mart would be impossible to secure
because he felt that the necessary precautions could be undertaken. (122)
> Anyway, when O'Donnell informed Bruno they had decided on the TM, Bruno was
> furious.....and, IMO, in his book "implied" JBC caused the death of JFK.
>
So, you're a Brunoite?
> Had the luncheon been at the Women's Center, the MC would have traveled through
> DP heading east (faster than it traveled on Elm street heading to the TM).
> Moreover, Jackie would have been sitting between the JFK and the TSBD. IOW, only
> idiots would have planted a sniper or a patsy there.
>
Draw for us the route as you would have laid it out to get from Love
Field to the Women's Center that would HAVE to go through Dealey Plaza.
Headed EAST? In a message you posted on March 4th you wrote:
> Ok, right. Now, you do know that the motorcade was supposed to go to the
> Women's Center west of downtown Dallas-for the luncheon--until roughly a
> week prior to the assassination when JBC insisted it [the luncheon] be
> held at the Trade Mart, right? The route from Love Field to the Women's
> Center would have taken the motorcade through DP on Main Street traveling
> at a brisk rate...and Jackie would have been between JFK and the
> depository.
You said the Women's Center was WEST of downtown Dallas. So why would
they being going EAST to get WEST?
Seems you are making this up as you go and you don't know where anything
is in Dallas.
Love Field was WEST of the Dealey Plaza so why would they need to go
EAST through Dealey Plaza to get to the Women's Center which you say is
WEST of Dealey Plaza?
For that matter they had no need to go through Dealey Plaza at all to
get from Love Field to the Trade Mart. It was only a few streets away by
going WEST then SOUTH. See the map.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/63Dallas.gif
The ONLY reason to make the big loop to get from Love Field to the Trade
Mart was to intentionally go through Dealey Plaza. If they had decided
to go to the Women's Center they would still want to go through Dealey
Plaza to be seen by the crowds.
Mark on this map where the Women's Center and draw in the route they
would take.
The route necessitated by the Kennedy staff's preference for the Women's
Building would have led eastward along Main Street toward the fair
grounds, which lay to the southeast of the Main Street business district.
(114) The motorcade's access to the western end of Main Street on the
western side of Dealey Plaza would have been provided by a cloverleaf exit
that led into the Plaza from the expressway, just west of the Dealey Plaza
triple overpass. (115) After passing through the overpass, the motorcade
would then have continued, at what Bruno stated was the President's
customarily high rate of speed to or 50 miles per hour--into Main Street
within Dealey Plaza. (116) The distance on Main Street from the bottom of
the triple overpass to the point where crowds would be gathered (at the
Houston Street intersection) would have been crossed at that speed.
Deceleration of the motorcade would have commenced when the crowds were
reached. (117)
> The bottom line is that, because: 1) LHO was hired at the TSBD in Sept., 2) the
> change to the luncheon site (TM) was made only a little over a week prior to the
> assassination, and 3) JBC is the main [only?] reason the site was changed, all
> the CT theories that suggest LHO was involved in one way or another with the
> plot have an inherent hole....or at the very least a somewhat implausible weak
> aspect [in their theory].
>
Oh please. Now you have Oswald's personal choice, not part of a conspiracy
dictating where Connally as the mastermind of the conspiracy decides to
hold the luncheon? Again, to get to the Trade Mart there is no need to go
through Dealey Plaza.
To get to the Women's Center there is no need to go through Dealey Plaza.
How could Connally guarantee that Oswald would still be working at the
TSBD? Your conspiracy falls apart of its own weight.
> Oh, BTW, re. all the sometimes rather uncivil arguing we did some time ago,
> there will be an article that I wish you'd read that will most likely be
> published in a pretty prominent on-line publication (we hope/expect that some of
> the major newspapers will also re-print it) in the next few weeks. I assure you
> there is new and surprising information in it and at least you and VB might be
> taken aback.
>
Yeah, sure. Is this anything like your long anticipated TV special?
Incorrect. The goal was to travel through the heart of Dallas on Main
Street. Why even mention Dealey Plaza? It wasn't a "goal".
>
>I don't care for any phony establishment journals.
>
The establishment journals don't care about phony conspiracy theories.
Yes, they are part of the 10% elite who are paid by the CIA to defend
the WC at all costs.
Of course we can't figure out what you are replying to because you snip
out the context. I never said the goal was to go through Dealey Plaza.
Someone else said the goal was to travel through the heart of Dallas on
Main Street and that takes you right through Dealey Plaza. Try to design a
route which goes down Main Street and avoids Dealey Plaza.
No, they are facts.
Dang, Marsh. YOU SOLVED IT! Yes, 10% of the country is in the employ of
the CIA specifically to spread lies about what happened! No wonder the
country is in such bad shape, all that money going to the 10% elite, and
all.
Too bad the WC basically DID get what happened.
Well, because you refuse to post correctly we do not know to whom your
questions are directed. Are you claiming that you don't know how to use
the Internet to find thousands of articles on a subject? Maybe there are
some features in Advanced Search that you didn't know about. You need some
sitting next to you at your computer teaching you how to search the
Internet?
Maybe that's why 9/11 was allowed to happen. Because instead of spending
the billions on tracking the terrorists they were wasting it on domestic
propaganda efforts, in violation of their charter.
Maybe instead of spending millions of dollars experimenting on people with
dangerous drugs and killing Americans they could have spent that money on
finding the mole in their midst giving away everything to the Russians.