Book including Oswald - alt.assassination.jfk

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alt.assassination.jfk
Message from discussion Book including Oswald
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From: John Reagor King <caeru...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk
Subject: Re: Book including Oswald
Date: 3 Oct 2012 22:46:51 -0400
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Approved: jmcad...@shell.core.com
Message-ID: <caeruleo-430D3B.13293403102012@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>
References: <563b28fe-49e4-4b51-86a8-1eaf6a5a0628@googlegroups.com> <8126f75d-0966-416b-9ab4-6a3655e4e499@googlegroups.com> <caeruleo-DFE3EA.12395929092012@mcadams.posc.mu.edu> <5067871c$1@mcadams.posc.mu.edu> <caeruleo-E40071.12241830092012@mcadams.posc.mu.edu> <5069cabd@mcadams.posc.mu.edu> <caeruleo-4DBE09.13052802102012@mcadams.posc.mu.edu> <506b5ca0@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>
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In article <506b5...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
 Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 10/2/2012 4:36 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
> > In article <5069c...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> >   Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/30/2012 10:55 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
> >>> In article <5067871...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> >>>    Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 9/29/2012 4:42 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
> >>>>> In article <8126f75d-0966-416b-9ab4-6a3655e4e499@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>>     Richard Ferguson <senorcorre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I can see I'm going to have to be careful not to get caught up in this
> >>>>>> board or I'll never have time to write.  I'll attempt to answer your
> >>>>>> questions (objections) though.  First, I am not an expert on the 
> >>>>>> Kennedy
> >>>>>> assassination.  I haven't read all of the books written on the subject 
> >>>>>> or
> >>>>>> even kept up on the internet.  I have to depend on what I remember.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you don't mind me making a suggestion, reading books *about* the
> >>>>> assassination is not at all a good way to do research.  If that's all
> >>>>> you do, then you will be forced to rely on the extremely selective
> >>>>> quotes taken from the original documents by the authors.  I have read
> >>>>> many books about the assassination, both those taking the point of view
> >>>>> that Oswald did it alone, and those taking the point of view that there
> >>>>> was a conspiracy, and without a single exception I found many examples
> >>>>> in every one of these books of the authors grossly misrepresenting what
> >>>>> the original documents actually say.  Some of these examples included
> >>>>> instances in which, had the author only quoted the next several
> >>>>> sentences from the document, it would have instantly demolished the
> >>>>> entire argument the author was making.  Never trust what any author of
> >>>>> any book tells you about any original document, such as a witness
> >>>>> testimony to the Warren Commission.  Read the document for yourself, in
> >>>>> its entirety, complete and unabridged, from first word to last word.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Every page of all 26 Warren Commission volumes has been online for more
> >>>>> than a decade.  That's a good place to start.  You'll quickly find 
> >>>>> that,
> >>>>> although the investigation was indeed quite flawed, those flaws are
> >>>>> rather different than what most of the authors of books claim.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My recommendation?  Start with the complete WC testimony of Jack Ruby.
> >>>>> Every word of it is here:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ruby_j1.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ruby_j2.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you've ever read even one book about the assassination in which Mr.
> >>>>> Ruby is mentioned at all, and especially if the book contains even a
> >>>>> single quotation from this testimony, chances are that the book grossly
> >>>>> distorted what he actually said by leaving out certain very crucial
> >>>>> passages from this testimony.  These authors almost always quote only
> >>>>> passages such as this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "I would like to request that I go to Washington... It is very
> >>>>> important."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Gentlemen, unless you get me to Washington, you can't get a fair shake
> >>>>> out of me. If you understand my way of talking, you have got to bring 
> >>>>> me
> >>>>> to Washington..."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Gentleman, if you want to hear any further testimony, you will have to
> >>>>> get me to Washington soon..."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "If you request me to go back to Washington with you right now, that
> >>>>> couldn't be done, could it?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "There is only one thing. If you don't take me back to Washington
> >>>>> tonight...then you will see the most tragic thing that will ever 
> >>>>> happen.
> >>>>> And if you don't have the power to take me back, I won't be around to 
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> able to prove my innocence or guilt."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "I want to tell the truth, and I can't tell it here. I can't tell it
> >>>>> here."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "I may not live tomorrow to give any further testimony. The reason why 
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> add this to this, since you assure me that I have been speaking sense 
> >>>>> by
> >>>>> then, I might be speaking sense by following what I have said, and the
> >>>>> only thing I want to get out to the public, and I can't say it here, is
> >>>>> with authenticity, with sincerity of the truth of everything and why my
> >>>>> act was committed, but it can't be said here."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mr. Ruby was at this time giving his testimony to Earl Warren in the
> >>>>> Dallas County Jail.  See how often he asked Warren to be taken to
> >>>>> Washington?  See where he said that if he wasn't taken back, he might
> >>>>> not be around much longer?  Does it seem as if he might have been
> >>>>> hinting that, if only he could be taken to Washington, he might be able
> >>>>> to tell more of what he knew about the assassination of JFK than he 
> >>>>> felt
> >>>>> safe telling in the Dallas County Jail?  Doesn't it seem as if, since 
> >>>>> he
> >>>>> was never taken out of Dallas for the rest of his life, he left it a
> >>>>> mystery as to exactly what he would have revealed had he been taken to
> >>>>> Washington?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's certainly what almost all of these authors want you to believe,
> >>>>> and many of them even specifically say so in their commentaries on this
> >>>>> testimony.  Naturally that is why they never, ever, ever quote this,
> >>>>> from the very same testimony:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **********
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mr. RUBY. There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it
> >>>>> takes my life at this moment to say it, and Bill Decker said be a man
> >>>>> and say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and
> >>>>> Edwin Walker is one of the top men of this organization--take it for
> >>>>> what it is worth, Chief Justice Warren.
> >>>>> Unfortunately for me, for me giving the people the opportunity to get 
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> power, because of the act I committed, has put a lot of people in
> >>>>> jeopardy with their lives.
> >>>>> Don't register with you, does it?
> >>>>> Chief Justice WARREN. No; I don't understand that.
> >>>>> Mr. RUBY. Would you rather I just delete what I said and just pretend
> >>>>> that nothing is going on?
> >>>>> Chief Justice WARREN. I would not indeed. I am only interested in what
> >>>>> you want to tell this Commission.That is all I am interested in.
> >>>>> Mr. RUBY. Well, I said my life, I won't be living long now. I know 
> >>>>> that.
> >>>>> My family's lives will be gone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **********
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **********
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mr. RUBY. No; because I will say this. You don't know if there is
> >>>>> anything to disprove, but at this moment, there is a certain
> >>>>> organization in this area that has been indoctrinated, that I am the 
> >>>>> one
> >>>>> that was in the plot to assassinate our President.
> >>>>> Mr. RANKIN. Would you tell us what that is?
> >>>>> Mr. RUBY. The John Birch Society.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **********
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **********
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I will make this additional statement to
> >>>>> you, that if any witness should testify before the Commission that you
> >>>>> were, to their knowledge, a party to any conspiracy to assassinate the
> >>>>> President, I assure you that we will give you the opportunity to deny 
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> and to take any tests that you may desire to so disprove it.
> >>>>> I don't anticipate that there will be any such testimony, but should
> >>>>> there be, we will give you that opportunity.
> >>>>> Does that seem fair?
> >>>>> Mr. RUBY. No; that isn't going to save my family.
> >>>>> Chief Justice WARREN. Well, we can't do everything at once.
> >>>>
> >>>> This was in the day before witness protection where the Mob would
> >>>> routinely kill informants and their whole families. Obviously Warren 
> >>>> does
> >>>> not want to protect Ruby so that he can be killed before he spills the
> >>>> beans.
> >>>
> >>> And yet, "strangely," Anthony, Ruby's testimony here, where he *did*
> >>> spill the beans, was printed anyway, and long before Ruby's death as
> >>> well.
> >>
> >> No, Ruby was killed
> >
> > Oh, you can "prove" that he didn't die of natural causes?  I thought
> > cancer was a natural cause.  It is one of the most common causes of
> > death in our species, Anthony.
>
> Cancer  by injection.

Lol, that tired old myth again?  You can, ah, er, um, "prove" that he was 
*really* injected with cancer, and that that wasn't just one of his many 
silly paranoid claims like his claim that he would hear many Jews 
elsewhere in the jail screaming as they were being tortured?

> >> before he could spill the beans,
> >
> > "Before" he spilled the beans?  No he wasn't.  He spilled the beans
> > approximately three years and seven months before he died.  He
> 
> Then why did he asked to be taken to Washington so he could talk.

I've already quoted him above saying why, and you quoted me doing it 
above in your own article here.  Don't you know how to use the Internet?

> He never mentioned the names of all those Mafiosi he knew.

Because those weren't the people he told Earl Warren he and his family 
were in danger from in Dallas.  He said the reason he wanted to be taken 
to Washington was because he and his family were in danger from the John 
Birch Society, including Edwin Walker.  You quoted him saying so above in 
this present reply of yours.  Don't you know how to use the Internet?

> >> Don't you believe Ralph Salerno?
> >
> > Believe him regarding what?  This, maybe?
> >
> > **********
> >
> > Mr. SALERNO. Well, I think Jack Ruby turning to someone in the
> > underworld for help in a labor matter is not unrealistic. Many people do
> > that every day. Many businessmen will buy labor peace, they will ignore
> > collective bargaining; they will ignore all the agencies of government;
> > and if they really want something done, they hire the Godfather. Carlo
> > Gambino, not in the underworld but in the upper worm, was a labor
> > consultant, business firms paid him as much as $40,000 for help in one
> > labor matter. I can tell you that Carlo Gambino doesn't know the
> > difference between Samuel Gompers and Ringo Starr. That is how much he
> > knows about labor but he is a Godfather and he has interjected himself
> > in labor matter where miraculously the strike is headed off, or if it is
> > already ongoing, it has come to an end. So Jack Ruby turning to someone
> > in the underworld for help is not unrealistic at all. There was a second
> > part to your question.
> >
> > **********
> 
> That is not it, but thanks for confirming that Jack Ruby had Mafia 
> connections.

In that quotation Salerno merely said that it is plausible that Jack 
Ruby had Mafia connections.  So?  What does this have to do with why he 
said he wanted to be taken to Washington?

> > Of what relevance is Salerno to Jack Ruby dying of cancer three years
> > and seven months after he had spilled the beans on the John Birch
> > Society and Edwin Walker?  I don't see Salerno claiming that the Mob
> > used cancer to carry out their hits, and the Mob seems to have been
> > blissfully unconcerned about Jack Ruby's paranoia regarding anti-Jewish
> > right-wing organizations.
>
> Salerno claimed that whenever a killer is hired the man who hired him 
> must be killed, then the man who hired that killer must be killed, ad 
> infinitum. Don't you believe Salerno?

As I am aware of no shred of credible evidence that Jack Ruby died of 
anything but natural causes, it is irrelevant whether I believe him or 
not, since it has no bearing on why Jack Ruby said he wanted to be taken 
to Washington.
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