Was Oswald a CIA Agent?
The News
lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
not this is true?
I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
wasn't. Thanks.
Herbert Blenner
I conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald was never a CIA agent. For details
see the following links.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/anatomy.htm
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/implications.htm
Herbert
tomnln
"The News" <bdeboi...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4908bdf4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
See testimony from a CIA Employee>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
munge...@aol.com
Sorry, but I don't think you will get a unanimous yes or no. The only
evidence I've seen that Oswald had any contact with the CIA is a paper
discovered by "Frontline" researchers that appeared to show that Oswald
was debriefed by a CIA agent named Andy Anderson shortly after he returned
to the U.S. You can read more about this by viewing the PBS transcript,
which I believe is still available. Just google transcript who was lee
harvey oswald.
There was, of course, an FBI agent named James Hosty who was put on
Oswald's case. I doubt very much Oswald worked for the CIA or the FBI, but
there are those who believe otherwise.
tims...@gmail.com
Hi,
The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10024&relPageId=253
The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
persuasion.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
Anthony Marsh
> TOP POST
>
> Hi,
>
> The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
> been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
>
Your uninformed opinion matters little. Those in the intelligence
community like Dulles have said that the CIA typically uses that type of
despicable character.
> They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10024&relPageId=253
>
The CIA always denies. So what?
> The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
> persuasion.
>
So what? So were the double agents the CIA and FBI used to infiltrate
the Communist Party.
Anthony Marsh
> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> not this is true?
>
Not really. Oswald always had some peripheral contact with the CIA, but
nothing direct.
burgundy
> TOP POST
>
> Hi,
>
> The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
> been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
>
> They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
>
>
> The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
> persuasion.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> On Oct 30, 11:01 am, "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> > lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> > that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> > with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> > not this is true?
>
> > I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
> > effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
>
> - Show quoted text -
There is a very convincing book by John Newman, a former CIA employee
and a Professor at the University of Maryland, entitled "Oswald and
the CIA" that proves there were files on him seen by various people.
JLeyd...@aol.com
> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> with the CIA prior to the assassination. �Could anyone tell me whether or
> not this is true?
In her book, "Farewell to Justice," Joan Mellen claimed Oswald not only
worked for the CIA but also for the FBI and the Bureau of Customs. Just
think of that: three paychecks coming in plus his unemployment checks.
Shows the opportunities that exist for kids who drop out of school early
in the 10th grade and later have two courts- martial in the Marines.
It's a great country.
JGL
Robert Harris
"The News" <bdeboi...@verizon.net> wrote:
Two short videos you might find of interest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD9wrSM8bwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHRwMZVswE8&feature=related
Robert Harris
74030...@compuserve.com
The News wrote:
> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> not this is true?
It is absolutely untrue whatever else the other responders to you
message might promote. THere is no way Oswald would have been hired
by CIA as he couldn't survive a clearance investigation.
s/f Dolan, a former CIA officer.
74030...@compuserve.com
> "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote in message
Wilcott LIED. His testimony was totally rebutted by CIA officers with
documents. The HSCA who heard Wilcott and the other witnesses and the
documentation said Wilcott was not believable and rejedtedd his testimony,
probably because of his pro-Soviet lawyer who with his wife were working
with CIA renegade and Soviet agent of influence, Philip Agee. You have NO
basis to believe Wilcott, except desperation. And by doing do to cast
doubt on your credibility.and that of your web site.
s/f Dolan
thali...@hotmail.com
Your post is very interesting. Why are you so interested whether he
was a CIA agent, but state you are not that interested in the
assassination? I would be willing to bet my life he was a CIA agent,
an operative being 'run' as part of a cladestine mission. Not all CIA
operatives are Top Gun military guys or super brainy analysts. The CIA
contracted the MAFIA to work for them, for crying out loud! Oswald was
recruited in the marines and asked to go undercover as an communist
sympathiser - he was reasonably intellient (iq 119 = above average)
tested in Russian and given a top secret security clearance. He then
defects to Russia. He travels to Russia using unknown funds, stays in
an intelligence linked hotel in Finland, and is then mysteriously
repatriated with a loan from the Defence Dept, met on return by a well
known right-wing anti-Communist and allowed to resume a civilian life
with a Russian bride without any known official questioning of his
loyalty to the US. The whole scenario is bizarre. He was working for
the CIA, no doubt.
thali...@hotmail.com
We have got the big time boys on board. Must be worrying them.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 30, 2:53 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4908bdf4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>>
>>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
>>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
>>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
>>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
>>> not this is true?
>>> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
>>> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
>>> wasn't. Thanks.
>> See testimony from a CIA Employee>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
>
> Wilcott LIED. His testimony was totally rebutted by CIA officers with
So, your claim is now that CIA officers routinely lie under oath. That's
very reassuring.
> documents. The HSCA who heard Wilcott and the other witnesses and the
> documentation said Wilcott was not believable and rejedtedd his testimony,
> probably because of his pro-Soviet lawyer who with his wife were working
> with CIA renegade and Soviet agent of influence, Philip Agee. You have NO
> basis to believe Wilcott, except desperation. And by doing do to cast
> doubt on your credibility.and that of your web site.
>
Just more character assassination from a Cold Warrior whose mind is
stuck in the 1950's.
> s/f Dolan
>
>
thali...@hotmail.com
> TOP POST
>
> Hi,
>
> The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
> been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
>
> They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
>
>
> The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
> persuasion.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> On Oct 30, 11:01 am, "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> > lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> > that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> > with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> > not this is true?
>
> > I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
> > effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tim, honestly, how naive do you want to be? Your profession is clearly
not PR. Do you honestly think that the CIA would admit Oswald
(presumed assassin of the President) worked for them? Have you ever
heard of plausible denial? They are a SECRET organisation. They are
beholden to almost no-one.
The fact is there are numerous indicators that Oswald was a false
defector, and his "legend" was that of a communist sympathiser.
Thalia.
burgundy
The one thing about Oswald's cash and such is how he got to Russia
through Helsinski in a very short amount of time with little to show
in his bank account. The most suspicious evidence is his flight path
which matches up with no known commercial flights. He did have that
military ID which other have speculated gave him a carte blanche
around the world. This could be Military Intelligence or Naval
INtelligence or CIA.... is there a difference? We will probably never
know.
Anthony Marsh
Which security clearance check? You mean the one he survived in the
Marines? You mean like the security clearances you flunked? Never even
made it to Yankee Blue.
tims...@gmail.com
Hi All,
Notice how Marsh smoothly begins to argue the complete other side of
the argument. What he has posted here is diametrically opposed to the
argument he made above.
That way, Marsh can never be wrong and we can all see how brilliant he
is!
BTW, Marsh, any *peripheral* contact the CIA had with Oswald was on
account of his pro Communist activities, like defecting to the USSR at
the height of the Cold War and trying to reach Cuba to help Castro
less that a year after the Cuban Missile Crisis.
That's because, Marsh, openly Marxist agitators like Oswald were just
the sort of people the CIA was meant to protect people from.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
thali...@hotmail.com
What if he was recruited while still very young, while in the marines?
David Von Pein
From Vince Bugliosi's book:
"Since it has been established beyond all doubt that Oswald killed
Kennedy, the conspiracy theorists who propound the idea of the CIA being
behind Oswald's act are necessarily starting out in a very deep hole
before they even take their first breath of air. This is so because Oswald
was a Marxist, and a Marxist being in league with U.S. intelligence just
doesn't ring true." -- VB; Page 1195 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)
Anthony Marsh
What Dolan does not tell you is that Marines are often loaned out to the
CIA for special projects without having to join the CIA.
Anthony Marsh
> TOP POST
>
> Hi All,
>
> Notice how Marsh smoothly begins to argue the complete other side of
> the argument. What he has posted here is diametrically opposed to the
> argument he made above.
>
> That way, Marsh can never be wrong and we can all see how brilliant he
> is!
>
Wrong. I have not contradicted anything else I've ever said.
> BTW, Marsh, any *peripheral* contact the CIA had with Oswald was on
> account of his pro Communist activities, like defecting to the USSR at
> the height of the Cold War and trying to reach Cuba to help Castro
> less that a year after the Cuban Missile Crisis.
>
You just laid out what you think the peripheral contact was. Some of
that is quite true. Being debriefed by the CIA does not prove he was a
CIA officer.
> That's because, Marsh, openly Marxist agitators like Oswald were just
> the sort of people the CIA was meant to protect people from.
>
Openly Marxist agitators like Oswald are exactly the sort of people the
CIA uses and we need protection from them.
Anthony Marsh
There is a slight difference but they all work with each other on joint
projects.
Anthony Marsh
Did the CIA admit that Clay Shaw worked for them? It may take several
years for the facts to come out.
> The fact is there are numerous indicators that Oswald was a false
> defector, and his "legend" was that of a communist sympathiser.
>
My particular theory which a few others understand is that Oswald was
sent unwittingly as a dry run to see how the KGB would evaluate defectors.
> Thalia.
>
>
Anthony Marsh
Ask Dolan about the luncheon meeting he had with a group of retired CIA
officers to plan their strategy to discredit the JFK assassination
research community.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 30, 9:01 am, "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
>> not this is true?
>>
>> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
>> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
>> wasn't. Thanks.
>
> Your post is very interesting. Why are you so interested whether he
> was a CIA agent, but state you are not that interested in the
> assassination? I would be willing to bet my life he was a CIA agent,
> an operative being 'run' as part of a cladestine mission. Not all CIA
> operatives are Top Gun military guys or super brainy analysts. The CIA
> contracted the MAFIA to work for them, for crying out loud! Oswald was
> recruited in the marines and asked to go undercover as an communist
> sympathiser - he was reasonably intellient (iq 119 = above average)
> tested in Russian and given a top secret security clearance. He then
We don't have the proof that Oswald had a Top Secret clearance.
> defects to Russia. He travels to Russia using unknown funds, stays in
> an intelligence linked hotel in Finland, and is then mysteriously
A lot of people stay in intelligence linked hotels without even realizing
it. When we first moved up here, we stayed at the Sheraton Commander,
which has been used by various intelligence services. But at the time my
father was retired from the NSA. The choice of hotel was based on
recommendation by his new employer who had been his commanding officer in
the war and who was paying for his move up from Washington to the main
headquarters in Boston.
> repatriated with a loan from the Defence Dept, met on return by a well
> known right-wing anti-Communist and allowed to resume a civilian life
> with a Russian bride without any known official questioning of his
> loyalty to the US. The whole scenario is bizarre. He was working for
> the CIA, no doubt.
>
What about his debriefing by the CIA?
The KGB evaluated him and determined that he was not a CIA officer.
curtjester1
> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> not this is true?
>
> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
> wasn't. Thanks.
Yes. Now that you have the answer, no more research is required.
Besides quotes from CIA people about 'it', here is some other past
reading.
Hopefully, an easy yes doesn't have to mean that one should have been
able to pull the file out of Langley for your pleasures.
CJ
thali...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes it is true that a lot of people would stay in the hotel without
knowing its links, but it is quite a pricey hotel, why would a lowly
paid marine have stayed there? Especially seeing just getting to
russia would have cost him a packet [assuming that Oswald paid his own
way] The hotel, on its own, doesn't prove anything, however like
almost everything in this case, it is the culmination of evidence that
forms a distinct pattern that is the clue.
thali...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
You cannot discredit the truth. It will come out one day, maybe we
will all be dead, but to people in the future without the emotional
attachment to this event, the truth will be obvious (like it is to
most people who bother to study the case)
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dollie been tippin his hand, AGAIN!?
CJ
Anthony Marsh
Lie #4,582. The people that the CIA picks to be double agents against
Communist countries are often Marxists.
The US has a history of supporting Marxists when it suited our purposes,
such as our buddy Ho Chi Minh or Mao Tse-Tung.
74030...@compuserve.com
> 74030.3...@compuserve.com wrote:
> > On Oct 30, 2:53 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:4908bdf4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>
> >>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> >>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> >>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> >>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> >>> not this is true?
> >>> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
> >>> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
> >>> wasn't. Thanks.
> >> See testimony from a CIA Employee>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
>
> > Wilcott LIED. His testimony was totally rebutted by CIA officers with
>
> So, your claim is now that CIA officers routinely lie under oath. That's
> very reassuring.
I did not. Your claim about me is absolutely false, Quote wher I asserted
that "CIA officers ROUTINELY LIE UNDER OATH." Wilcitt was NOT a CIA
officer when he testified. He had been forced to resign.
>
> > documents. The HSCA who heard Wilcott and the other witnesses and the
> > documentation said Wilcott was not believable and rejedtedd his testimony,
> > probably because of his pro-Soviet lawyer who with his wife were working
> > with CIA renegade and Soviet agent of influence, Philip Agee. You have NO
> > basis to believe Wilcott, except desperation. And by doing do to cast
> > doubt on your credibility.and that of your web site.
>
> Just more character assassination from a Cold Warrior whose mind is stuck in the 1950's.
That is totally false, but I realize you would defend Agee and Schaap.
After all you helped promote the junk of KGB-paid asset, Mark Lane.
BTW Marsh, have you noted that Putin is trying to resurect the USSR which
he served as a KGB office?
>
> > s/f Dolan
tomnln
<74030...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:7f0fcd1b-c137-4680...@f37g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 31, 5:07 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 74030.3...@compuserve.com wrote:
>> > On Oct 30, 2:53 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:4908bdf4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>>
>> >>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in
>> >>> assassination
>> >>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented
>> >>> statement
>> >>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal
>> >>> association
>> >>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me
>> >>> whether or
>> >>> not this is true?
>> >>> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no
>> >>> to the
>> >>> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he
>> >>> was or
>> >>> wasn't. Thanks.
>> >> See testimony from a CIA Employee>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
>>
>> > Wilcott LIED. His testimony was totally rebutted by CIA officers with
>>
>> So, your claim is now that CIA officers routinely lie under oath. That's
>> very reassuring.
Dolan wrote;
> I did not. Your claim about me is absolutely false, Quote wher I asserted
> that "CIA officers ROUTINELY LIE UNDER OATH." Wilcitt was NOT a CIA
> officer when he testified. He had been forced to resign.
I write;
Wilcott's testimony make NO Mention of "Forced Retirement.
What Proof can you offer to support your claim?
As for Credibility SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/u.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Reitzes
> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> with the CIA prior to the assassination. �Could anyone tell me whether or
> not this is true?
If such evidence existed, it would be truly explosive news.
> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
> wasn't. Thanks.
People have been speculating about Oswald and U.S. intelligence for 45
years. It began when people started hypothesizing that Oswald may have
been working for a group like Naval intelligence or the CIA when he
attempted to defect to the Soviet Union in 1959. There simply isn't
any evidence for this, and there's no evidence that any U.S.
intelligence agency had a false defector program at that time. (On the
contrary, they all thought it was far too obvious a ploy.)
If you're interested, my critique of Oliver Stone's "JFK" includes a
bio of Oswald:
http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100wholho.html
Dave
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 29, 7:01�pm, "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. �Could anyone tell me whether or
>> not this is true?
>
>
> If such evidence existed, it would be truly explosive news.
>
No, it wouldn't. It would be dismissed by WC defenders like you.
>
>> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
>> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
>> wasn't. Thanks.
>
>
> People have been speculating about Oswald and U.S. intelligence for 45
> years. It began when people started hypothesizing that Oswald may have
> been working for a group like Naval intelligence or the CIA when he
> attempted to defect to the Soviet Union in 1959. There simply isn't
Are you talking about the pre-assassination speculation? The first
speculation about Oswald after the shooting was that it was a Communist
Conspiracy, with Oswald being paid by Castro. Next was DA Alexander's
hoax that Oswald was an FBI informant.
> any evidence for this, and there's no evidence that any U.S.
> intelligence agency had a false defector program at that time. (On the
> contrary, they all thought it was far too obvious a ploy.)
>
Yeah sure, as if they didn't think that the KGB had a fake defector program!
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Marsh,
On Oct 31, 1:23 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> timst...@gmail.com wrote:
> > TOP POST
>
> > Hi,
>
> > The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
> > been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
>
> Your uninformed opinion matters little. Those in the intelligence
> community like Dulles have said that the CIA typically uses that type of
> despicable character.
>
They typically use committed Marxists like Lee Harvey Oswald as their
agents do they Marsh? Got a citation on that?
> > They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
>
> >http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=100...
>
> The CIA always denies. So what?
>
Forty five years have passed and not one tiny speck of credible
evidence to show Oswald worked for the CIA, Marsh.
> > The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
> > persuasion.
>
> So what? So were the double agents the CIA and FBI used to infiltrate
> the Communist Party.
>
So what? Lefists of the most extreme persuasion, like Oswald, don't
work for the CIA, Marsh. They go and offer the KGB whatever help they
can, like Oswald did.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 31, 5:07 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 74030.3...@compuserve.com wrote:
>>> On Oct 30, 2:53 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4908bdf4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>>>>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
>>>>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
>>>>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
>>>>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
>>>>> not this is true?
>>>>> I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
>>>>> effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
>>>>> wasn't. Thanks.
>>>> See testimony from a CIA Employee>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
>>> Wilcott LIED. His testimony was totally rebutted by CIA officers with
>> So, your claim is now that CIA officers routinely lie under oath. That's
>> very reassuring.
>
> I did not. Your claim about me is absolutely false, Quote wher I asserted
> that "CIA officers ROUTINELY LIE UNDER OATH." Wilcitt was NOT a CIA
> officer when he testified. He had been forced to resign.
>
Straw man argument. I did not claim that Wilcott was a CIA officer when he
testified. But again you accidentally revealed a fact, that CIA officers
routinely lie under oath, exactly as your buddy Helms said. And who better
to know that than YOU, a former CIA officer who was forced to resign?
>>> documents. The HSCA who heard Wilcott and the other witnesses and the
>>> documentation said Wilcott was not believable and rejedtedd his testimony,
>>> probably because of his pro-Soviet lawyer who with his wife were working
>>> with CIA renegade and Soviet agent of influence, Philip Agee. You have NO
>>> basis to believe Wilcott, except desperation. And by doing do to cast
>>> doubt on your credibility.and that of your web site.
>> Just more character assassination from a Cold Warrior whose mind is stuck in the 1950's.
>
> That is totally false, but I realize you would defend Agee and Schaap.
> After all you helped promote the junk of KGB-paid asset, Mark Lane.
>
Hey, I got some news for you. The Cold War is over. We won. Most people
don't even remember why such character assassination tactics were needed.
They are passe now.
> BTW Marsh, have you noted that Putin is trying to resurect the USSR which
> he served as a KGB office?
>
Have I noticed? So what?
>>> s/f Dolan
>
>
74030...@compuserve.com
How much cash did he have? What was the cost of a London to Helsinki
flight ar the time he went?
The most suspicious evidence is his flight path which matches up with no
known commercial flights.
Oh? ou checked all the flights via various routes.
He did have that military ID which other have speculated gave him a
carte blanche around the world.
That is utterly false. His card showed he was an inactive Marine PFC
reservist. He could get nothing from the military without showing
orders to active duty. He did not have them.
.
>This could be Military Intelligence or Naval INtelligence or CIA....
NO WAY!!!!
> is there a difference?
Yes.
>We will probably never know.
Probably true.
s/f Dolan,a retired Marine
Anthony Marsh
> MIDDLE POST
>
> Hi Marsh,
>
> On Oct 31, 1:23 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> timst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> TOP POST
>>> Hi,
>>> The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
>>> been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
>> Your uninformed opinion matters little. Those in the intelligence
>> community like Dulles have said that the CIA typically uses that type of
>> despicable character.
>>
>
> They typically use committed Marxists like Lee Harvey Oswald as their
> agents do they Marsh? Got a citation on that?
>
There were many. Such as Solo.
Barron, John - OPERATION SOLO - The FBI's man in the Kremlin, the story of
Morris Childs, Agent 58, who was the second ranking man in the US
Communist Party (CPUSA). He was an FBI double agent for 27 years, and
made 52 clandestine missions to the Soviet Union where he was hosted by
the top Politburo leadership. This was considered by the Bureau to be
their greatest foreign operation, while at the same time keeping it hidden
from the CIA. The author is noted for his other works on intelligence:
KGB; Breaking the Ring, about the Walker Spy Case, and other books.
Regnery, DC, 1996, New, Dust Jacket Fine, $25.
>>> They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
>>> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=100...
>> The CIA always denies. So what?
>>
>
> Forty five years have passed and not one tiny speck of credible
> evidence to show Oswald worked for the CIA, Marsh.
>
And I never said that Oswald was a CIA officer.
>>> The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
>>> persuasion.
>> So what? So were the double agents the CIA and FBI used to infiltrate
>> the Communist Party.
>>
>
> So what? Lefists of the most extreme persuasion, like Oswald, don't
> work for the CIA, Marsh. They go and offer the KGB whatever help they
> can, like Oswald did.
>
Of course they do and have.
Prove your allegation that Oswald offered the KGB help.
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Thalia,
Speaking of naive, don't you believe the fairy tales about the three
tramps not being Abrams, Doyle and Gedney? The *Three Tramps as
Sinister* schtick is nonsense perpetuated by the likes of A. J.
Weberman, a guy who ran some kind of *Dylan Liberation* organisation
in the sixties and spent his time going through Bob Dylan's garbage
can in NYC, looking for <snicker> *clues* to the bard's current take
on the state of the universe. Weberman had *crackpot* written all over
him.
As for your nonsense about *Plausible Denial*, perhaps you picked that
up from the title of Mark Lane's book; a tome that fails on multiple
factual grounds in trying to tie Oswald to the CIA in any operational
sense and a tome quite rightly dubbed in these forums as *Undeniably
Implausible*, LOL!
The fact is, Thalia, that there are far more *numerous* indicators
that Oswald was a genuine leftist of the most extreme kind than there
are that he was a false defector or that he ever worked for the CIA.
His communist sympathiser credentials are very solid indeed. No legend
there.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
Questioning
tomnln
There's a signed report from Richard Helms stating thet there was NO
commercial flights from London to Helsinki during the time frame that
Oswald travelled from London TO Helsinki.
We also know that Oswald thought he was entitled to a "Military Flight"
Home FROM Russia.
<74030...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:a4a395ff-cf14-46e1...@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
>>> "I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in
assassination lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a
well-documented statement that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or
other formal association with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could
anyone tell me whether or not this is true?" <<<
A very good indication that Lee Harvey Oswald was certainly not a CIA
agent or any kind of "operative" working for some high-up organization in
the U.S. Government is:
The way Lee Oswald was living in the weeks and months (and years) prior to
11/22/63.
Oswald couldn't even afford to feed and provide a home for his wife and
kids in the weeks leading up to the assassination. And he never offered
Ruth Paine a cent as compensation for Marina and his kids living at the
Paine home for several weeks in 1963. Not a cent.
Do CIA operatives normally have to live in virtual poverty while they are
"on assignment" for the agency (or at ANY time while in the employ of the
Langley big boys)?
Do CIA agents have to live in ROOMINGHOUSES, in $7 and $8 a week rooms
(some no bigger than a large closet) while working for an agency like the
CIA?
Somebody please show me proof that ANY ex-CIA agents (or currents agents)
were forced to live like Lee Oswald lived in 1963 -- i.e., in virtual
poverty.
It's just silly.
In short -- The manner in which Oswald LIVED HIS OWN LIFE FROM DAY TO DAY
is virtual proof, IMO, that he was WORKING ALONE on November 22, 1963 (and
on April 10, 1963, in the Walker incident as well).
Now, I'm sure that some CTers will chime back in with: 'CIA agents don't
flaunt their wealth'; or: 'The salary isn't good anyway for an agent like
Oswald'.
But my main point will still apply at the end of those arguments...which
is: Lee Harvey Oswald's OWN LIFESTYLE and HABITS and LODGINGS and LACK OF
READILY-AVAILABLE FUNDS all lead in the direction of Mr. Oswald NOT being
an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States (or any
other "high-up" organization within either the U.S. Government or a
foreign Government).
Herbert Blenner
> when will your site be finished?
I think that tomnln has reached the age of permanent construction.
Herbert
burgundy
Dolan and Brennan sound confused and "prepped" by their handlers. I would
ask each of you to respond to John Newman's research which, since I
mentioned it earlier, no one has responded to. The fact is that there was
at least one file on Oswald at the CIA but everyone seems bashful about
that. Please google George Lardner's article about Newman interviewing a
woman at the CIA who knew a lot about this file. It bends the boughs of
credibility that a former Atsugi employee well versed in U2 security and
operations and who learns Russian and is teased by his fellow marine
officers as "Oswaldovich" is suddenly of no interest to CIA operatives.
The CIA's fingerprints are all over "Harvey Lee Oswald" and "Lee Harvey
Oswald" and Mexico City and the "missing" tapes and the guy who was
photographed as Oswald coming out of the embassy who looks like "Saul"
from Hugh McDonald's wacky book. What the hell is going on here my CIA
brethren????????
Anthony Marsh
Dolan plays an old CIA trick. The question was if Oswald was a CIA
agent. Dolan dares not answer that so he changes the question. Now, the
question becomes was Oswald a CIA officer. Of course not, and no one
suggested that.
What he doesn't tell you is that the CIA borrows, uses various people
for missions, witting or unwitting without hiring them as officers.
> that. Please google George Lardner's article about Newman interviewing a
> woman at the CIA who knew a lot about this file. It bends the boughs of
> credibility that a former Atsugi employee well versed in U2 security and
> operations and who learns Russian and is teased by his fellow marine
> officers as "Oswaldovich" is suddenly of no interest to CIA operatives.
Oswald WAS of interest to the CIA and also to the KGB. Being of interest
does not mean he is their agent.
Anthony Marsh
You say that only because you know nothing about the intelligence
community. Very low level operatives and informants do continue to lead
mundane lives.
>
> In short -- The manner in which Oswald LIVED HIS OWN LIFE FROM DAY TO DAY
> is virtual proof, IMO, that he was WORKING ALONE on November 22, 1963 (and
> on April 10, 1963, in the Walker incident as well).
>
You are begging the question. Hoover believed that Oswald had been paid
$6,500 by Castro.
Others think more than one person was involved in the Walker shooting.
> Now, I'm sure that some CTers will chime back in with: 'CIA agents don't
> flaunt their wealth'; or: 'The salary isn't good anyway for an agent like
> Oswald'.
>
No, all we have to do is point out that you don't know what the Hell you
are talking about.
> But my main point will still apply at the end of those arguments...which
> is: Lee Harvey Oswald's OWN LIFESTYLE and HABITS and LODGINGS and LACK OF
> READILY-AVAILABLE FUNDS all lead in the direction of Mr. Oswald NOT being
> an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States (or any
> other "high-up" organization within either the U.S. Government or a
> foreign Government).
>
>
Do YOU think someone would agree to assassinate the President for $6,500?
74030...@compuserve.com
The truth is character assassination? Are you denying now that you were
not a key member of the Lane sponsored Citizens' Committee of Inquiry in
Boston where you promoted a meeting with Lane for which you were given 200
copies of Lane's conspiracy book to distribute FREE?
>
> > BTW Marsh, have you noted that Putin is trying to resurect the USSR which
> > he served as a KGB office?
>
> Have I noticed? So what?
Knowledgeable people claim he is trying to resurrect the Cold War. Besides
there are CPs still in China, the DRK, the DRVN and Cuba who are still out
to destroy the US and with the FSB are actively spying and trying o
recruit Americans. You, maybe?
>
> >>> s/f Dolan
David Von Pein
>>> "Do YOU think someone would agree to assassinate the President for
$6,500?" <<<
Oswald did it for nothing.
tims...@gmail.com
Newman's is an impressive book, but my recall is that he concludes that
the CIA were deficient in not passing on the information that Oswald met
KGB assassination specialist Kostikov when he was in Mexico City.
The implication seems to be that Oswald killed JFK on behalf of the KGB
and the CIA was deficient in not preventing it.
I don't think that that really advances your cause that Oswald was a CIA
agent. Seems to make him a KGB agent.
Of course, Newman jumps through some convoluted hoops to come up with the
above rather shaky scenario. His research is impressive but there are
errors in it. Most of what he writes could, I believe, be characterised as
*spooky music*, to steal a phrase.
Oswald never worked for the CIA, the FBI or the KGB. He worked for LHO.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
On Oct 31, 1:27 pm, burgundy <WBurgha...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 30, 7:23 am, timst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > TOP POST
>
> > Hi,
>
> > The idea that a Marxist deadbeat like Lee Harvey Oswald would have
> > been employed by the CIA is simply laughable.
>
> > They specifically denied it on a number of occasions:
>
> >http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=100...
>
> > The fellow was through and through a leftist of the most EXTREME
> > persuasion.
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Tim Brennan
> > Sydney, Australia
> > *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> > On Oct 30, 11:01 am, "The News" <bdeboinvil...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> > > lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> > > that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> > > with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> > > not this is true?
>
> > > I am not interested in complex theories but just a simple yes or no to the
> > > effect that most people who have looked into it would agree that he was or
> > > wasn't. Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> There is a very convincing book by John Newman, a former CIA employee
> and a Professor at the University of Maryland, entitled "Oswald and
> the CIA" that proves there were files on him seen by various people.
Anthony Marsh
Then what's YOUR conspiracy theory?
Anthony Marsh
Could you make your question any more convoluted so that if just one tiny
fact is wrong I can claim that you are not right? As I said before, I was
a key member of the Massachusetts chapter of Mark Lane's Citizens
Commission of Inquiry and helped arrange his appearance at the BU lecture.
He brought with him a box of his books Rush to Judgment. I do not know if
there were exactly 200 as you state as a fact. We handed them out for free
all the time, especially at our own lectures.
So, you have three factual errors in one sentence. That is not character
assassination. That is not paying attention to details.
>>> BTW Marsh, have you noted that Putin is trying to resurect the USSR which
>>> he served as a KGB office?
>> Have I noticed? So what?
>
> Knowledgeable people claim he is trying to resurrect the Cold War. Besides
Knowledgeable people claim that Bush and Cheney started it first. Nah,
nah, ya, nah, nah.
> there are CPs still in China, the DRK, the DRVN and Cuba who are still out
> to destroy the US and with the FSB are actively spying and trying o
> recruit Americans. You, maybe?
>
Communists are not the only ones out to destroy the US.
Recruit me for what?
>>>>> s/f Dolan
>
>
Anthony Marsh
> TOP POST
>
> Newman's is an impressive book, but my recall is that he concludes that
> the CIA were deficient in not passing on the information that Oswald met
> KGB assassination specialist Kostikov when he was in Mexico City.
>
> The implication seems to be that Oswald killed JFK on behalf of the KGB
> and the CIA was deficient in not preventing it.
>
That was not Newman's implication. That is your incorrect inference.
Because you do not know John Newman and have never spoken with him. His
theory is that someone in the CIA impersonated Oswald down in Mexico to
create a false link to the KGB.
> I don't think that that really advances your cause that Oswald was a CIA
> agent. Seems to make him a KGB agent.
>
More nonsense. KGB officers under official cover perform routine embassy
functions and few of the thousands of people they talk to ever become
KGB agents.
> Of course, Newman jumps through some convoluted hoops to come up with the
> above rather shaky scenario. His research is impressive but there are
> errors in it. Most of what he writes could, I believe, be characterised as
> *spooky music*, to steal a phrase.
>
Your world view is that there are never any conspiracies. You are the
type of guy who tells everyone that Watergate was just a third rate
burglary.
> Oswald never worked for the CIA, the FBI or the KGB. He worked for LHO.
>
I know this is way beyond your head, but someone does not have to work
FOR the CIA, FBI or KGB to be used by them.
burgundy
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have interviewed Newman twice. As a journalist. In very specific detail.
At one time I began the game of pulling names out of his book of higher up
CIA operatives abd asking, "Does he know what happened? Or does this guy
know what happened?" And he said "Yes, they know." The truth is out there
somewhere, Brennan.
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Marsh,
On Nov 7, 1:07 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> timst...@gmail.com wrote:
> > TOP POST
>
> > Newman's is an impressive book, but my recall is that he concludes that
> > the CIA were deficient in not passing on the information that Oswald met
> > KGB assassination specialist Kostikov when he was in Mexico City.
>
> > The implication seems to be that Oswald killed JFK on behalf of the KGB
> > and the CIA was deficient in not preventing it.
>
> That was not Newman's implication. That is your incorrect inference.
> Because you do not know John Newman and have never spoken with him. His
> theory is that someone in the CIA impersonated Oswald down in Mexico to
> create a false link to the KGB.
>
Well that's a stupid theory then, isn't it Marsh? BTW, I live in Australia
so I guess I'll have to content myself with reading Newman's book. Useful
documents section but flawed reasoning. A lot of *spooky music* plus could
have done a darn sight better attributing the photos used, Marsh.
> > I don't think that that really advances your cause that Oswald was a CIA
> > agent. Seems to make him a KGB agent.
>
> More nonsense. KGB officers under official cover perform routine embassy
> functions and few of the thousands of people they talk to ever become
> KGB agents.
>
Ozzie didn't need to. He was already a committed Marxist and a traitor to
US Cold War interests. He was doing his best to get to Castro's Cuba; a
country that less than a year before had had nuclear missiles aimed at US
cities. He'd spent the last several months advocating a *fair play for
Cuba* on the streets, on radio and on TV. He was EXACTLY the sort of
person the CIA opposed.
> > Of course, Newman jumps through some convoluted hoops to come up with the
> > above rather shaky scenario. His research is impressive but there are
> > errors in it. Most of what he writes could, I believe, be characterised as
> > *spooky music*, to steal a phrase.
>
> Your world view is that there are never any conspiracies. You are the
> type of guy who tells everyone that Watergate was just a third rate
> burglary.
>
No, completely wrong. There are conspiracies. The JFK assassination is
not one of them, though.
> > Oswald never worked for the CIA, the FBI or the KGB. He worked for LHO.
>
> I know this is way beyond your head, but someone does not have to work
> FOR the CIA, FBI or KGB to be used by them.
>
I know this is way beyond YOUR head but the title of this thread, and
the question we are addressing, is *Was Oswald a CIA Agent?*, Marsh.
Having conceded that he wasn't actually employed by them, which would
appear to be the thrust of the original enquiry, you're now changing
your stance to claim that he was unwittingly used by them, Marsh? LOL!
Alarmed Regards,
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Curt,
Has Judyth arrived to stay at your house yet? When will you be taking
her to track down whichever of *Harvey* and *Lee* Jack Ruby didn't
kill back in 1963? Here's hoping the reunion goes well! Oh brother...
Concerned Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
On Nov 2, 2:52 am, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 11:41 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > thaliac...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Oct 31, 1:57 pm, 74030.3...@compuserve.com wrote:
> > >> The News wrote:
> > >>> I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination
> > >>> lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement
> > >>> that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association
> > >>> with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or
> > >>> not this is true?
> > >> It is absolutely untrue whatever else the other responders to you
> > >> message might promote. THere is no way Oswald would have been hired
> > >> by CIA as he couldn't survive a clearance investigation.
>
> > >> s/f Dolan, a former CIA officer.
>
> > > We have got the big time boys on board. Must be worrying them.
>
> > Ask Dolan about the luncheon meeting he had with a group of retired CIA
> > officers to plan their strategy to discredit the JFK assassination
> > research community.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Dollie been tippin his hand, AGAIN!?
>
> CJ
Anthony Marsh
> MIDDLE POST
>
> Hi Marsh,
>
> On Nov 7, 1:07 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> timst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> TOP POST
>>> Newman's is an impressive book, but my recall is that he concludes that
>>> the CIA were deficient in not passing on the information that Oswald met
>>> KGB assassination specialist Kostikov when he was in Mexico City.
>>> The implication seems to be that Oswald killed JFK on behalf of the KGB
>>> and the CIA was deficient in not preventing it.
>> That was not Newman's implication. That is your incorrect inference.
>> Because you do not know John Newman and have never spoken with him. His
>> theory is that someone in the CIA impersonated Oswald down in Mexico to
>> create a false link to the KGB.
>>
>
> Well that's a stupid theory then, isn't it Marsh? BTW, I live in Australia
I am only complaining about your misrepresentation of what Newman said,
not defending everything he writes.
> so I guess I'll have to content myself with reading Newman's book. Useful
> documents section but flawed reasoning. A lot of *spooky music* plus could
> have done a darn sight better attributing the photos used, Marsh.
>
Not my problem. We know what you don't believe conspiracies are possible.
>>> I don't think that that really advances your cause that Oswald was a CIA
>>> agent. Seems to make him a KGB agent.
>> More nonsense. KGB officers under official cover perform routine embassy
>> functions and few of the thousands of people they talk to ever become
>> KGB agents.
>>
>
> Ozzie didn't need to. He was already a committed Marxist and a traitor to
> US Cold War interests. He was doing his best to get to Castro's Cuba; a
> country that less than a year before had had nuclear missiles aimed at US
> cities. He'd spent the last several months advocating a *fair play for
> Cuba* on the streets, on radio and on TV. He was EXACTLY the sort of
> person the CIA opposed.
>
No one is excusing Oswald's politics. Just the type of person the CIA
would use. Your idea that Oswald was a KGB agent is nonsense. The KGB
evaluated him and rejected the idea.
>>> Of course, Newman jumps through some convoluted hoops to come up with the
>>> above rather shaky scenario. His research is impressive but there are
>>> errors in it. Most of what he writes could, I believe, be characterised as
>>> *spooky music*, to steal a phrase.
>> Your world view is that there are never any conspiracies. You are the
>> type of guy who tells everyone that Watergate was just a third rate
>> burglary.
>>
>
> No, completely wrong. There are conspiracies. The JFK assassination is
> not one of them, though.
>
Prove it. Explain some of your conspiracy theories and prove them. You
can't even admit that Watergate was a conspiracy.
>>> Oswald never worked for the CIA, the FBI or the KGB. He worked for LHO.
>> I know this is way beyond your head, but someone does not have to work
>> FOR the CIA, FBI or KGB to be used by them.
>>
>
> I know this is way beyond YOUR head but the title of this thread, and
> the question we are addressing, is *Was Oswald a CIA Agent?*, Marsh.
>
A CIA agent is different from a CIA officer.
Clay Shaw denied that he was a CIA agent because he was only an
informant. Likewise an NSA officer cooperating in CIA projects is not a
CIA agent.
> Having conceded that he wasn't actually employed by them, which would
> appear to be the thrust of the original enquiry, you're now changing
> your stance to claim that he was unwittingly used by them, Marsh? LOL!
>
Now changing? You mean like 45 years ago?