Would Somebody Please Tell Ralph Cinque....

[Jean Davison]

....that Oswald debunked his theory in 1963?

"Oswald's Hallway Interview 1": Ten seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7WFL8tYQuY

QUOTE:

Reporter: Did you shoot the President?

Oswald: I work in that building.

Reporter: Were you in the building at the time?

Oswald: Naturally if I work in that building, yes, sir.

UNQUOTE

(I wonder how Oswald knew the shots came from "that
building"?)
Jean

[Sandy McCroskey]

Wow. That never even occurred to me! I wonder if anybody else has ever
noticed.
/sm

[Pamela Brown]

How did he know they didn't?

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Would Somebody Please Tell Ralph Cinque that Oswald debunked his
theory in 1963?" <<<

Jean,

I've told that fact to Cinque in the past (and to Fetzer, in the post
below). It does no good. Those kooks WANT Oswald to be in the doorway--
so, therefore, Oswald IS in the doorway, regardless of the facts.


http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html

"The...statement made to the press by Lee Oswald ("Naturally, if I
work in that building, yes, sir"), all by itself, pretty much destroys the
theory that Oswald was standing on the Depository steps at 12:30 PM on
November 22nd.

I guess Jim Fetzer must think that Oswald really meant to say: "No
sir, I wasn't inside the building at 12:30; I was standing on the steps in
front of the building with a lot of my fellow Depository employees,
including Buell Wesley Frazier, when JFK was shot."

Plus, on numerous other occasions on November 22 and 23, Oswald had
the perfect opportunity to shout these words to the world -- "I WAS
STANDING IN THE DEPOSITORY DOORWAY AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING!"

Several times during that weekend, Oswald had a microphone shoved
in his face by the press. He could have shouted out the above words to the
waiting world--on live television--if he had wanted to do so, and the
Dallas Police couldn't have done anything to stop him." -- DVP; 1/29/12

[Bill Clarke]

In article <4fb3...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Sandy McCroskey says...

I'm sure A. Marsh was the first to point it out. Hear all about it when
Marsh comes through here later.

Bill Clarke

[Sandy McCroskey]

How does that follow?

[David Von Pein]

>>> "I wonder how Oswald knew the shots came from "that building"?" <<<

Well, by the time Oswald uttered his "I'm just a patsy" lie (along with
his "I work in that building" statement), several hours had elapsed since
his arrest. So it's quite possible that Oswald would have heard the cops
(or others) talking about the fact that shots came from the Depository.

According to Seth Kantor's handwritten notes, Oswald made his "patsy"
remark at 7:55 PM CST on 11/22, which is almost exactly six hours after
LHO was arrested. That certainly leaves plenty of time for Oswald to have
heard about shots coming from his workplace.

history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0193b.htm

Of course, in reality, since Oswald most certainly was the assassin, he
obviously knew that shots had been fired from the Book Depository before
anyone else on the planet.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/03/oswalds-patsy-lie.html

[Jean Davison]

On May 16, 4:28 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "I wonder how Oswald knew the shots came from "that building"?" <<<
>
> Well, by the time Oswald uttered his "I'm just a patsy" lie (along with
> his "I work in that building" statement), several hours had elapsed since
> his arrest. So it's quite possible that Oswald would have heard the cops
> (or others) talking about the fact that shots came from the Depository.
>
> According to Seth Kantor's handwritten notes, Oswald made his "patsy"
> remark at 7:55 PM CST on 11/22, which is almost exactly six hours after
> LHO was arrested. That certainly leaves plenty of time for Oswald to have
> heard about shots coming from his workplace.

Very true, David. He could've heard it somewhere.

I see that Oswald's statement about being inside has come up on
the EF today, and of course it made no dent in Mr. Cinque's opinion. And
now Professor Fetzer has decided that there was a mobile photo lab right
there in Dealey Plaza, to alter photos on the spot.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Jean

[Mitch Todd]

Who is Ralph Cinque, and why are there five of him?

"Jean Davison" <jean.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ba0774a5-161b-420e...@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

[Anthony Marsh]

Maybe because WC defenders have a habit of misquoting or quoting out of
context to push a political agenda.

[Bud]

<snicker> He knew they did better than anyone.

[Bud]

Not me, but it is an excellent point when you think about it. Oswald
could have never foreseen that it would be anything but undeniable fact
that the shots came from that particular place and no other. Or that there
would be so many hobbyists that would be willing to entertain anywhere but
there on his behalf.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 5/16/2012 5:28 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
>>>> "I wonder how Oswald knew the shots came from "that building"?"<<<
>
> Well, by the time Oswald uttered his "I'm just a patsy" lie (along with
> his "I work in that building" statement), several hours had elapsed since
> his arrest. So it's quite possible that Oswald would have heard the cops
> (or others) talking about the fact that shots came from the Depository.
>

Oh, you mean when he is led into the police station for the first time?
That gave him hours to talk to the cops? In case you didn't know it
Oswald was not arrested for shooting the President. Oswald was arrested
for shooting officer Tippit. When the reporters started asking him
questions about the President he said that it was the first time he
heard anything about it.

> According to Seth Kantor's handwritten notes, Oswald made his "patsy"
> remark at 7:55 PM CST on 11/22, which is almost exactly six hours after
> LHO was arrested. That certainly leaves plenty of time for Oswald to have
> heard about shots coming from his workplace.
>
> history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0193b.htm
>
> Of course, in reality, since Oswald most certainly was the assassin, he
> obviously knew that shots had been fired from the Book Depository before
> anyone else on the planet.
>

Begging the question as usual.

> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/03/oswalds-patsy-lie.html
>

[David Von Pein]

>>> "You just can't make this stuff up." <<<

But the CTers sure can. :)

Have you seen Fetzer's latest hunk of nonsense? He thinks that
Lovelady was added to this film (IOW--it's yet another fake film to
add to Fetzer's growing list):

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html#Lovelady-And-Oswald

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Yes, Fetzer can. And does.

[Mitch Todd]

It's only a matter of time before Fetzer posts a breathless treatise that
he himself is a forgery created by the Un-namable Them to further
Their diabolical machinations.

On that day, somewhere in the Afterlife, Franz Kafka will have to
pay up his wager to Phillip K Dick.

[Research]

"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:46fbf525-034f-4939...@k7g2000pbo.googlegroups.com...

>
>
>>>> "Would Somebody Please Tell Ralph Cinque that Oswald debunked his
> theory in 1963?" <<<
>
> Jean,
>
> I've told that fact to Cinque in the past (and to Fetzer, in the post
> below). It does no good. Those kooks WANT Oswald to be in the doorway--
> so, therefore, Oswald IS in the doorway, regardless of the facts.
>
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html
>
> "The...statement made to the press by Lee Oswald ("Naturally, if I
> work in that building, yes, sir"), all by itself, pretty much destroys the
> theory that Oswald was standing on the Depository steps at 12:30 PM on
> November 22nd.
>
> I guess Jim Fetzer must think that Oswald really meant to say: "No
> sir, I wasn't inside the building at 12:30; I was standing on the steps in
> front of the building with a lot of my fellow Depository employees,
> including Buell Wesley Frazier, when JFK was shot."

What evidence is there that Frazier was standing on the steps? Maybe he
lied too. Maybe he was on the fifth floor with his 30.6?

[Research]

It's a good assumption to make. But all these stupid responses settles
nothing. Yes Oswald said that he knew nothing about Kennedy until the
reporters ask him about it. But if you watch and listen to an uncut and
unhampered version of the press conference film, you will see that one
reporter tried to trick Oswald into making a statement that could be
conceived as quilt. Or could be twisted into an admission of quilt. That
is the way the media works.

As for the building statement. Do you really believe detectives did not
ask any questions about the Kennedy murder? The DPD didn't ask him of his
where abouts before the murder? No that's not a typical police question?
Sure. (<: LOL. And just how long was Oswald been questioned before the
statement. He also said "a policeman hit me." Is that really proof Oswald
did pull a gun? Look at the individual police statements. None of them
support any of the others?

So yes he said he worked in the building. He also said he was brought in
because he lived in the Soviet Union. Did that mean the Soviets were in a
plot with him?

What I find funny was the way the police kept shuffling Oswald from room
to room. Parading Oswald in front of the press. Didn't Curry say "I think
we got the right man" and "I think he shot both Officer Tippit and the
president." Even before the charges were dry on paper? The ax swings both
ways, dollface.

"Jean Davison" <jean.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba0774a5-161b-420e...@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

[Anthony Marsh]

On 5/19/2012 8:12 PM, Research wrote:
> It's a good assumption to make. But all these stupid responses settles
> nothing. Yes Oswald said that he knew nothing about Kennedy until the
> reporters ask him about it. But if you watch and listen to an uncut and
> unhampered version of the press conference film, you will see that one
> reporter tried to trick Oswald into making a statement that could be
> conceived as quilt. Or could be twisted into an admission of quilt. That
> is the way the media works.
>
> As for the building statement. Do you really believe detectives did not
> ask any questions about the Kennedy murder? The DPD didn't ask him of his
> where abouts before the murder? No that's not a typical police question?
> Sure. (<: LOL. And just how long was Oswald been questioned before the
> statement. He also said "a policeman hit me." Is that really proof Oswald
> did pull a gun? Look at the individual police statements. None of them
> support any of the others?
>
> So yes he said he worked in the building. He also said he was brought in
> because he lived in the Soviet Union. Did that mean the Soviets were in a
> plot with him?
>

No, it means that they arrested him because he was going to be used to
blame the murder on Russia.

> What I find funny was the way the police kept shuffling Oswald from room
> to room. Parading Oswald in front of the press. Didn't Curry say "I think
> we got the right man" and "I think he shot both Officer Tippit and the
> president." Even before the charges were dry on paper? The ax swings both
> ways, dollface.
>

Didn't Curry say. "We could never put him in that window with that rifle"?

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Done. Posted here:
http://www.amazon.com/forum/history/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg1?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx33HXI3XVZDC8G&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx228E67LUQ5IKV

and had a nice little discussion with Cinque's assistant, Linda
Hadley. My first post appears on page 3.
She's his assistant per the below website, although if you click on
her name, it says her real name is Cinque.

http://www.drcinque.com/

She couldn't (or he couldn't, it's unclear which of them is using the
Linda Hadley name on Amazon) defend any of her (or his) points.

Hank

[Jean Davison]

On May 21, 6:26 pm, "Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)"

<hsienz...@Aol.com> wrote:
> On May 16, 11:21 am, Jean Davison <jean.davis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >        ....that Oswald debunked his theory in 1963?
>
> >                  "Oswald's Hallway Interview 1":  Ten seconds in.
>
> >                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7WFL8tYQuY
>
> > QUOTE:
>
> >            Reporter:  Did you shoot the President?
>
> >            Oswald:  I work in that building.
>
> >            Reporter: Were you in the building at the time?
>
> >            Oswald:  Naturally if I work in that building, yes, sir.
>
> > UNQUOTE
>
> >             (I wonder how Oswald knew the shots came from "that
> > building"?)
> >                                                                 Jean
>

> Done. Posted here:http://www.amazon.com/forum/history/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg1?_encoding=UTF8&c...

>
> and had a nice little discussion with Cinque's assistant, Linda
> Hadley. My first post appears on page 3.
> She's his assistant per the below website, although if you click on
> her name, it says her real name is Cinque.
>
> http://www.drcinque.com/
>
> She couldn't (or he couldn't, it's unclear which of them is using the
> Linda Hadley name on Amazon) defend any of her (or his) points.

Thanks, Hank.

Jean

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

I'm now being accused of being a CIA Mole and being told that my real
name is not Henry Sienzant.

http://www.amazon.com/forum/history/ref=cm_cd_et_up_redir?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx33HXI3XVZDC8G&cdPage=1&cdSort=newest&cdThread=Tx228E67LUQ5IKV&newContentID=MxDKL1EWRGOB4V#MxDKL1EWRGOB4V

[Anthony Marsh]

I missed that. How did anyone accuse you of being a CIA Mole? Would that
mean that you actually work for the CIA while pretending to be loyal to
the KGB? That's what mole means. Just being an informant does not mean you
qualify as a mole.

[Jean Davison]

On May 30, 3:56 pm, "Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)"

> http://www.amazon.com/forum/history/ref=cm_cd_et_up_redir?_encoding=U...

Makes about as much sense as anything else he/she has been
saying.

Jean

[Ralph Cinque]

The inability to think, to prioritize, is a terrible malady. When it comes to evidence, there is a hierarchy, where some things matter more than others. The photo of Oswald standing outside the TSBD during the shooting trumps any and all lip-flapping, and that includes Oswald's.

The Doorway Man of the Altgens photo is wearing Oswald's distinctive clothing: the loose-fitting, unbuttoned outer shirt over the exposed white t-shirt. And when you examine his clothing in detail, you see the same unique collar and lapel as on Oswald and the same notch or vee in the t-shirt. These details are too specific and too perfectly matched for it to be anyone but him. It is impossible for it not to be him. It's Oswald in the doorway as sure it's Jesus on the Cross, Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial, or Custer at the Last Stand. It is beyond doubt.

So, it doesn't matter what Oswald said. But, in considering what he said, we need to look at the context. He wasn't asked where he was. It wasn't that the reporter asked him, "Where were you at the time of the shooting?" The reporter framed the question. The reporter asked him if he was inside the building at the time.

What if the reporter had asked, "Were you standing outside with the others at the time?" How would Oswald have responded? I don't know, but neither does anyone else. 75 people worked at the TSBD and most of them had gone outside. The vast majority. The building was mostly empty. And most of the few remaining inside were perched at windows watching the motorcade from that vantage point, and we know Oswald wasn't doing that.

Furthermore, it is apparent that later on, when answering questions to police, not reporters, Oswald told Detective Fritz that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front". That was hugely exonerating. How did Oswald know that Bill Shelley was out front? And by that I mean: how did Oswald know that Shelley was in the doorway unless he saw him there? Shelley was there, but he didn't have to be there. That doorway is and was small. Most of the employees were scattered on the street, either on Elm or Houston or the extension. The fact that Oswald named someone who actually was in the doorway is very significant.

Furthermore, we know from comparing the Altgens photo to the Wiegman film that Oswald left the doorway early. It was the only way he could get to the 2nd floor lunchroom before Baker, who was running. Oswald may have left the doorway before the fatal head shot, and that would mean that he WAS in the building during the assassination, that is, part of it.

The other thing about Oswald mentioning Shelley is that it rules out any possibility he was referring to a time other than the time of the shots. Some have tried to say that he was referring to after the shots, implying that Oswald saw Shelley outside in front as he left the building to make his way home. But, that is impossible because Shelley wasn't out there at that time. According to both Shelley and Lovelady, they left the entranceway right away- before Baker even reached the steps, and when they returned, the re-entered the building through the back door, and then they were in there for a long time. So, there is no possibility that Shelley was milling around out in front when Oswald was leaving. Oswald could only have meant that he saw Shelley out front DURING the assassination and not AFTER.

But, we are past the point of relying on lip-flapping. The matching points between Oswald and Doorman are too numerous for it to be anyone but him. It's cinched; it's over; and you people are shovelling sand to stop the tide.

[deke]

I,m sure that's Lovelady in the film, but what is he doing there? He's
just casually sitting at a desk while everyone is parading by. Seems kind
of strange unless he was taken in for questioning, but I had never heard
that.

[Anthony Marsh]

Oh, I get it. When you can't prove something you blame it on deficiencies
in the minds of your opponents. Is that a form of Poisoning the Well?

[Ralph Cinque]

We have more than proven that Oswald was Doorway Man. It is now preposterous to deny it. It can't not be him. The only means of denying it is pure stubbornness, like that of the mule, and I say that with apologies to mules.

It's over, Marsh. Oswald was in the doorway, and you're fiddling while Rome burns.

[Ralph Cinque]

My Good God, are we ever dealing in fantasy. That link you provided to
David Von Pein is horrendous. He posted CE 369 and falsely claimed that
the visible arrow was drawn by Lovelady. It was not! That arrow was drawn
by Frazier. Lovelady's arrow was drawn in the black, and all we can see is
the tail-end of it on the forearm of Black Hole Man.

http://tinypic.com/r/2mwi7sx/6

That little line on the forearm of the figure next to Doorman is
Lovelady's arrow. He was telling us that he was Black Hole Man.

And Oswald could not have meant that he saw Shelley outside as he was
leaving because Shelley was not out there at that time. Shelley left
immediately- before Baker even reached the steps, and he NEVER went back
to the front. He went around to the back and entered thru the back door
and was in there long past the time that Oswald left.

And the Fritz notes were definitely NOT chronological. First is mentioned
the encounter with Baker in the 2nd floor lunchroom. Then comes eating
lunch on the 1st floor. But, we know beyond doubt that he ate lunch on the
1st floor at 12:15 which was 16 1/2 minutes before his encounter with
Baker. So, why Fritz wrote it that way, I don't know but it does not
establish the chronological order. And again, Shelley wasn't out in front
when Oswald left at 12:40 or whenever, therefore he could not have been
talking abou that. That whole analysis by Von Pein is pathetic! It's over,
people. Oswald was in the doorway.

[Walt]

On Apr 17, 2:40 pm, deke <drw...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:51:22 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > >>> "You just can't make this stuff up." <<<
>
> > But the CTers sure can. :)
>
> > Have you seen Fetzer's latest hunk of nonsense? He thinks that
>
> > Lovelady was added to this film (IOW--it's yet another fake film to
>
> > add to Fetzer's growing list):
>

> >http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html#Lovelady-An...

>
> I,m sure that's Lovelady in the film, but what is he doing there? He's
> just casually sitting at a desk while everyone is parading by. Seems kind
> of strange unless he was taken in for questioning, but I had never heard
> that.

Actually. it looks like Lovelady has been inserted into the film......
He looks amazinglike he does in the video taken outside the TSBD just
minutes after the shooting. Someone probably clipped him from that
video and inserted that image into the video of Lee belng "escorted"
through the room.

[timstter]

Well then why aren't we reading about it in the press?

Surely you must be able to find some news organisation brave enough to
run with such a scoop!

Or gullible enough...

Skeptical Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

*...NOT ONE of the three experts was able to strike the head or the
neck of the target EVEN ONCE.* (Emphasis added).
Mark Lane, Rush to Judgment, page 129, footnoted as: XVII 261-262.

And yet here IS WC XVII 261-262, showing hits to the head...
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0144a.htm

X marks the spot where Mark Lane lied!

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/18/2013 2:59 PM, timstter wrote:
> On Apr 17, 11:49 pm, Ralph Cinque <budab...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The inability to think, to prioritize, is a terrible malady. When it comes to evidence, there is a hierarchy, where some things matter more than others. The photo of Oswald standing outside the TSBD during the shooting trumps any and all lip-flapping, and that includes Oswald's.
>>
>> The Doorway Man of the Altgens photo is wearing Oswald's distinctive clothing: the loose-fitting, unbuttoned outer shirt over the exposed white t-shirt. And when you examine his clothing in detail, you see the same unique collar and lapel as on Oswald and the same notch or vee in the t-shirt. These details are too specific and too perfectly matched for it to be anyone but him. It is impossible for it not to be him. It's Oswald in the doorway as sure it's Jesus on the Cross, Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial, or Custer at the Last Stand. It is beyond doubt.
>>
>> So, it doesn't matter what Oswald said. But, in considering what he said, we need to look at the context. He wasn't asked where he was. It wasn't that the reporter asked him, "Where were you at the time of the shooting?" The reporter framed the question. The reporter asked him if he was inside the building at the time.
>>
>> What if the reporter had asked, "Were you standing outside with the others at the time?" How would Oswald have responded? I don't know, but neither does anyone else. 75 people worked at the TSBD and most of them had gone outside. The vast majority. The building was mostly empty. And most of the few remaining inside were perched at windows watching the motorcade from that vantage point, and we know Oswald wasn't doing that.
>>
>> Furthermore, it is apparent that later on, when answering questions to police, not reporters, Oswald told Detective Fritz that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front". That was hugely exonerating. How did Oswald know that Bill Shelley was out front? And by that I mean: how did Oswald know that Shelley was in the doorway unless he saw him there? Shelley was there, but he didn't have to be there. That doorway is and was small. Most of the employees were scattered on the street, either on Elm or Houston or the extension. The fact that Oswald named someone who actually was in the doorway is very significant.
>>
>> Furthermore, we know from comparing the Altgens photo to the Wiegman film that Oswald left the doorway early. It was the only way he could get to the 2nd floor lunchroom before Baker, who was running. Oswald may have left the doorway before the fatal head shot, and that would mean that he WAS in the building during the assassination, that is, part of it.
>>
>> The other thing about Oswald mentioning Shelley is that it rules out any possibility he was referring to a time other than the time of the shots. Some have tried to say that he was referring to after the shots, implying that Oswald saw Shelley outside in front as he left the building to make his way home. But, that is impossible because Shelley wasn't out there at that time. According to both Shelley and Lovelady, they left the entranceway right away- before Baker even reached the steps, and when they returned, the re-entered the building through the back door, and then they were in there for a long time. So, there is no possibility that Shelley was milling around out in front when Oswald was leaving. Oswald could only have meant that he saw Shelley out front DURING the assassination and not AFTER.
>>
>> But, we are past the point of relying on lip-flapping. The matching points between Oswald and Doorman are too numerous for it to be anyone but him. It's cinched; it's over; and you people are shovelling sand to stop the tide.
>
> Well then why aren't we reading about it in the press?
>

Can you pronounce cover-up> Most news is controlled by the CIA.

> Surely you must be able to find some news organisation brave enough to
> run with such a scoop!
>

Nope.

[Ralph Cinque]

That was not Lovelady, and he said so himself.

Atty Ball: (After breaking for lunch) did you EVER see Oswald again THAT
DAY?

Lovelady: No.

What part of that do you not understand?

Do you realize that there are different versions of that footage
containing at least 2 different figures as Lovelady, and possibly a 3rd.
It's a farce. It never happened. They made it up, concocted it, just to
sell the plaid shirt. Wake up.

[deke]

Would you please post links to those different versions. I'd be very interested to see them as I think others here would too.

[Ralph Cinque]

Well, one version was used in the Four Days in November film, which can be
found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIlbvI5x5rU

And another completely different version can be found in the Three Shots
That Changed America film which can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg0f_QHNSUw

We're talking about completely different footages of the walk-by between
those two films with two different Loveladys. Here they are side by side.

http://tinypic.com/r/29n8e9i/4

They are two different men.

[Jason Burke]

Oh, no. Not again.
Deal with it, Ralph. There wasn't all sorts of subterfuge going on.
They're all Lovelady. Billy Nolan Lovelady.