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John McAdams' factoid on ammunition clip
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Canuck
Apr 28, 2013, 10:23:09 PM4/28/13
to
The article at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm about the
ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
the FBI). He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
clip. IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
the FBI). He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
clip. IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
Anthony Marsh
Apr 29, 2013, 3:41:20 PM4/29/13
to
On 4/28/2013 10:23 PM, Canuck wrote:
> The article at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm about the
> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
Yeah, so what?
> The article at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm about the
> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
> the FBI). He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
He only needed on bullet to kill Walker.
> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
> clip. IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
> he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>
Chad Anthony
Apr 29, 2013, 6:11:25 PM4/29/13
to
Yes, the clip will work with less than six rounds.I own two carcanos.
Walt
Apr 29, 2013, 6:12:07 PM4/29/13
to
On Apr 28, 9:23 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
Of course a clip will work just fine with less than six rounds in
it.... Silly question.... Do you think the rifle would stop working
after one cartridge was fired???
The clip simple holds the cartridges in place so the spring loaded
elevator (follower) can push the cartridges up into the face of the
bolt when the empty bolt is fully retracted.
Incidentally ..... Any person who bought the 108 rounds of ammo that
Kleins advertized who have received 18 clips not just ONE.....
Apparently Kleins didn't know that the Italian ammo was packaged in
clips of six rounds per clip, three clips per box, and six boxes per
carton. A carton contained 108 cartridges of the 6.5 X 52mm 162grain
FMJ ammunition.
P.S. NOBODY fired that Carcano at anybody that day..........
> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
it.... Silly question.... Do you think the rifle would stop working
after one cartridge was fired???
The clip simple holds the cartridges in place so the spring loaded
elevator (follower) can push the cartridges up into the face of the
bolt when the empty bolt is fully retracted.
Incidentally ..... Any person who bought the 108 rounds of ammo that
Kleins advertized who have received 18 clips not just ONE.....
Apparently Kleins didn't know that the Italian ammo was packaged in
clips of six rounds per clip, three clips per box, and six boxes per
carton. A carton contained 108 cartridges of the 6.5 X 52mm 162grain
FMJ ammunition.
P.S. NOBODY fired that Carcano at anybody that day..........
mainframetech
Apr 29, 2013, 6:13:51 PM4/29/13
to
On Apr 28, 10:23 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
I believe that Oswald didn't buy any ammo or clip because he didn't
intend to fire the rifle. He was going to use it for show, as is proved
by his insistence on Marina taking his picture with his guns. The rifle
was to make an impression.
Chris
> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
intend to fire the rifle. He was going to use it for show, as is proved
by his insistence on Marina taking his picture with his guns. The rifle
was to make an impression.
Chris
mainframetech
Apr 29, 2013, 6:28:51 PM4/29/13
to
On Apr 29, 3:41 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/28/2013 10:23 PM, Canuck wrote:
>
> > The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
> On 4/28/2013 10:23 PM, Canuck wrote:
>
that he fired at Walker just because he took credit for it to Marina,
who teased him about his rifle. We don't even know if Oswald actually
fired ANY rifle at JFK, since he would be hard pressed to even be in
the right place in the TSBD when the cops ran in hunting the killer.
Why wouldn't he buy ammunition from Klein's? Their prices were
probably reasonable for the time. He didn't plan on using the rifle,
just taking his picture with it and impressing the Cubans.
Chris
John Fiorentino
Apr 29, 2013, 7:53:27 PM4/29/13
to
You're correct about the Italian ammo, but that's not what Oswald used.
John F.
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:1f72bff7-9078-4098...@a8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
John F.
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:1f72bff7-9078-4098...@a8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
Bill Clarke
Apr 29, 2013, 8:43:04 PM4/29/13
to
In article <6f4c0de0-7b89-41ec...@y12g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
mainframetech says...
sale of ammunition. A cash sale off the store shelf would be impossible
to trace.
Bill Clarke
mainframetech says...
>
>On Apr 28, 10:23=A0pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
>> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
>> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
>> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
>> the FBI). =A0He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
>On Apr 28, 10:23=A0pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
>> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
>> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
>> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
>> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
>> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
>> clip. =A0IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
>> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
>> he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
>> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
>> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
>> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>
>
> I believe that Oswald didn't buy any ammo or clip because he didn't
>intend to fire the rifle. He was going to use it for show, as is proved
>by his insistence on Marina taking his picture with his guns. The rifle
>was to make an impression.
>
>Chris
>
How so you know Oswald didn't buy any ammo? No records were kept on the
>> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
>> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
>> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>
>
> I believe that Oswald didn't buy any ammo or clip because he didn't
>intend to fire the rifle. He was going to use it for show, as is proved
>by his insistence on Marina taking his picture with his guns. The rifle
>was to make an impression.
>
>Chris
>
sale of ammunition. A cash sale off the store shelf would be impossible
to trace.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
Apr 29, 2013, 9:34:03 PM4/29/13
to
ammunition from that shop that year and he was bragging about Marxism.
> Bill Clarke
>
>
Anthony Marsh
Apr 29, 2013, 9:35:31 PM4/29/13
to
> Why wouldn't he buy ammunition from Klein's? Their prices were
> probably reasonable for the time. He didn't plan on using the rifle,
> just taking his picture with it and impressing the Cubans.
>
the $7.
> Chris
>
>
>
Walt
Apr 30, 2013, 10:17:36 AM4/30/13
to
573 ) was able to determine that it had been fired from the Carcano
with the serial number C2766.
>
> > Why wouldn't he buy ammunition from Klein's? Their prices were
> > probably reasonable for the time. He didn't plan on using the rifle,
> > just taking his picture with it and impressing the Cubans.
>
> He didn't need 108 rounds just to kill Walker. And he couldn't afford
> the $7.
>
>
>
> > Chris
Bud
Apr 30, 2013, 10:19:22 AM4/30/13
to
On Apr 28, 10:23 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
Where did Oswald buy the bullets that were found in his possession
when he was arrested?
> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
when he was arrested?
mainframetech
Apr 30, 2013, 10:19:59 AM4/30/13
to
not knowing whether Oswald bought any ammo and clip or not. If not,
then who?
>
>
Chris
Bill Clarke
Apr 30, 2013, 4:49:27 PM4/30/13
to
In article <517f180d$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
Damn near impossible. That suit you? The MC ammo must have not been that
rare with them doing a big sale on it in volume.
Bill Clarke
rare with them doing a big sale on it in volume.
Bill Clarke
Walt
Apr 30, 2013, 4:52:29 PM4/30/13
to
hoax at Walker's house on the night of 4 /10 /63.
And he left that rifle under a pile of brush where he imagined the police
dogs would find it...... It's entirely possible that the rifle was put
under that pile of brush BEFORE the shot was fired from another rifle,
just as it was placed beneath boxes of books before the shooting In Dealey
Plaza.
Walt
Apr 30, 2013, 4:52:43 PM4/30/13
to
On Apr 29, 6:53 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
wrote:
You're correct in saying "That's not what Oswald used"....Because Lee
Oswald never used ANY...... CE 543 could NOT have been fired on 11/
22 /63 because the cartridge was badly dented and could not have been
dentd by any method of extracting or ejecting that spent shell. It
was damaged BEFORE it was planted there beneath the window.
> You're correct about the Italian ammo, but that's not what Oswald used.
>
> John F.
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
wrote:
You're correct in saying "That's not what Oswald used"....Because Lee
Oswald never used ANY...... CE 543 could NOT have been fired on 11/
22 /63 because the cartridge was badly dented and could not have been
dentd by any method of extracting or ejecting that spent shell. It
was damaged BEFORE it was planted there beneath the window.
> You're correct about the Italian ammo, but that's not what Oswald used.
>
> John F.
>
Walt
Apr 30, 2013, 4:53:01 PM4/30/13
to
like they had been stored in a leather ammo belt for a long period?
Walt
Apr 30, 2013, 7:08:41 PM4/30/13
to
to locate the only gun shop in Texas that had a few of the US made
(WCC) 6.5 X 52m Mannlicher Carcano cartridges and then pay the $10.00
for a clip with six cartridges, then perhaps you're also gullible
enough to buy some seashore property in Nevada......
If Lee had wanted ammo for the unusual gun, and went shopping for some
ammo he may have found a gun shop that stocked a small quantity of the
old Italian army surplus ammo that would have sold him a clip of six
cartridges for a couple of dollars. He sure as hell wouldn't have
searched high and low until he found some US made ammo at a very high
price......
Incidentally ..... The major reason that the US made ammo commaned a
high price was because the cartridges were reloadable, whereas the
Italian ammo was not reloadable. So gun buffs were willing to pay
more for the US made ammo so they could get reloadable brass........
Anthony Marsh
Apr 30, 2013, 7:09:24 PM4/30/13
to
stuck with odd amounts of ammo. In my case it was leftovers from an
estate sale.
>>
>>
> Chris
>
Anthony Marsh
Apr 30, 2013, 7:10:16 PM4/30/13
to
Frazier figured it out.
>
>
>>
>>> Why wouldn't he buy ammunition from Klein's? Their prices were
>>> probably reasonable for the time. He didn't plan on using the rifle,
>>> just taking his picture with it and impressing the Cubans.
>>
>> He didn't need 108 rounds just to kill Walker. And he couldn't afford
>> the $7.
>
>
> Absurd reasoning........
Why didn't he buy a better rifle?
Why didn't he buy 1,000 rounds?
Why didn't he buy a special custom made $5,000 CIA assassination rifle?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chris
>
>
John Fiorentino
Apr 30, 2013, 10:30:45 PM4/30/13
to
Bill:
The Italian ammo was very available, but Oswald didn't use that.
His ammo was from the WCC an American manufacturer, probably produced for
the CIA.
John F.
"Bill Clarke" <Bill_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:klneg...@drn.newsguy.com...
The Italian ammo was very available, but Oswald didn't use that.
His ammo was from the WCC an American manufacturer, probably produced for
the CIA.
John F.
"Bill Clarke" <Bill_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:klneg...@drn.newsguy.com...
Walt
Apr 30, 2013, 10:31:35 PM4/30/13
to
determine if it had been fired from the TSBD rifle with the serial
number C 2766.
Bud
Apr 30, 2013, 10:32:12 PM4/30/13
to
had ever been in a leather ammo belt, I was just asking whether it had
been determined where Oswald bought the bullets he had in his person
when he was arrested.
Bud
Apr 30, 2013, 10:32:23 PM4/30/13
to
Who bought the surplus and when? No, you are just making meaningless
claims.
John Fiorentino
Apr 30, 2013, 10:33:07 PM4/30/13
to
Walt:
We've been through this before.
I have provided the relevant info. about the "dent."
The most recent investigation by the HSCA reproduced the dent also in their
tests.
news:de74df07-fe70-49d3...@e14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
We've been through this before.
I have provided the relevant info. about the "dent."
The most recent investigation by the HSCA reproduced the dent also in their
tests.
news:de74df07-fe70-49d3...@e14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 12:17:28 AM5/1/13
to
On 4/30/2013 10:33 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> Walt:
>
> We've been through this before.
>
> I have provided the relevant info. about the "dent."
>
> The most recent investigation by the HSCA reproduced the dent also in their
> tests.
>
Not necessarily by the correct mechanism.
> Walt:
>
> We've been through this before.
>
> I have provided the relevant info. about the "dent."
>
> The most recent investigation by the HSCA reproduced the dent also in their
> tests.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 12:18:08 AM5/1/13
to
We are pretty sure it was in 1960 or 1961.
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 12:18:34 AM5/1/13
to
John Fiorentino
May 1, 2013, 8:24:22 AM5/1/13
to
The ammo alluded to was (apparently) produced in 1954 by Olin (Western
Cartridge Co. WCC) under a government contract.
Four million rounds.
John F.
"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:14b43a19-c19b-4a14...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Cartridge Co. WCC) under a government contract.
Four million rounds.
John F.
"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:14b43a19-c19b-4a14...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Bud
May 1, 2013, 8:29:02 AM5/1/13
to
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 8:29:34 AM5/1/13
to
he only had a few boxes.
> Bill Clarke
>
>
Bud
May 1, 2013, 8:29:45 AM5/1/13
to
> No, that's still classifies.
the national stockpile are released to be sold to the public?
> National Security you know.
> We are pretty sure it was in 1960 or 1961.
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 8:30:32 AM5/1/13
to
On 4/30/2013 4:52 PM, Walt wrote:
> On Apr 29, 6:53 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
> wrote:
>
> You're correct in saying "That's not what Oswald used"....Because Lee
> Oswald never used ANY...... CE 543 could NOT have been fired on 11/
> 22 /63 because the cartridge was badly dented and could not have been
> dentd by any method of extracting or ejecting that spent shell. It
> was damaged BEFORE it was planted there beneath the window.
>
>
It was dented after it was fired.
> On Apr 29, 6:53 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
> wrote:
>
> You're correct in saying "That's not what Oswald used"....Because Lee
> Oswald never used ANY...... CE 543 could NOT have been fired on 11/
> 22 /63 because the cartridge was badly dented and could not have been
> dentd by any method of extracting or ejecting that spent shell. It
> was damaged BEFORE it was planted there beneath the window.
>
>
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 8:31:42 AM5/1/13
to
buy a box of 20. Why not have Oswald walk all over Texas since you think
he never learned to take the bus?
> If Lee had wanted ammo for the unusual gun, and went shopping for some
> ammo he may have found a gun shop that stocked a small quantity of the
> old Italian army surplus ammo that would have sold him a clip of six
> cartridges for a couple of dollars. He sure as hell wouldn't have
> searched high and low until he found some US made ammo at a very high
> price......
>
> Incidentally ..... The major reason that the US made ammo commaned a
> high price was because the cartridges were reloadable, whereas the
> Italian ammo was not reloadable. So gun buffs were willing to pay
> more for the US made ammo so they could get reloadable brass........
>
mainframetech
May 1, 2013, 4:13:23 PM5/1/13
to
need ammo and clip.
>
>
>
>
> > Chris
Walt
May 1, 2013, 6:08:43 PM5/1/13
to
On Apr 30, 9:33 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
wrote:
extension of LBJ's "Select Blue Ribbon Committe" and their goal was to
discredit and destroy all of the evidence that had surfaced after the
Warren Commission closed it's book on the murder.
I can know for a fact that they DID NOT reproduce a spent shell like
CE 543 by ejecting a shell from a Mannlicher Carcano. I can know
that with 100% certainty , and so could you if you own a Mannlicher
Carcano.
John, Do you believe the government is telling us the whole
unvarnished truth about the Boston Marathon terrorist attack?
No?.... Then why do you believe they wouldn't lie to you about the
murder of JFK?
wrote:
> Walt:
>
> We've been through this before.
>
> I have provided the relevant info. about the "dent."
>
> The most recent investigation by the HSCA reproduced the dent also in their
> tests.
>
> John F.
John:.... I've told you before that the HSCA was nothing but an
>
> We've been through this before.
>
> I have provided the relevant info. about the "dent."
>
> The most recent investigation by the HSCA reproduced the dent also in their
> tests.
>
> John F.
extension of LBJ's "Select Blue Ribbon Committe" and their goal was to
discredit and destroy all of the evidence that had surfaced after the
Warren Commission closed it's book on the murder.
I can know for a fact that they DID NOT reproduce a spent shell like
CE 543 by ejecting a shell from a Mannlicher Carcano. I can know
that with 100% certainty , and so could you if you own a Mannlicher
Carcano.
John, Do you believe the government is telling us the whole
unvarnished truth about the Boston Marathon terrorist attack?
No?.... Then why do you believe they wouldn't lie to you about the
murder of JFK?
Walt
May 1, 2013, 11:00:41 PM5/1/13
to
On May 1, 7:24 am, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net> wrote:
> The ammo alluded to was (apparently) produced in 1954 by Olin (Western
> Cartridge Co. WCC) under a government contract.
>
> Four million rounds.
>
> John F.
>
> "Bud" <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote in message
> The ammo alluded to was (apparently) produced in 1954 by Olin (Western
> Cartridge Co. WCC) under a government contract.
>
> Four million rounds.
>
> John F.
>
order to Western Cartridge Co. was a COVERT operation..... Covert
operators don't leave paper trails...... However, I'd bet that most of
that ammo is laying on the bottom of the Caribbean at Bay of Pigs, in the
hulk of the CIA ship Rio Escondido.
If only half that 4 million rounds sunk with the Rio Escondido that would
have left 2 million rounds for the CIA to get rid of. I seriously doubt
that 2 million rounds were ever dumped on the US market, because if there
had been it wouldn't be too difficult to find a round or two of that
ammo.... And even the brss from that ammo is extremely rare.
Let's assume that there were 4000 ( a generous number) gun enthusists who
were seeking that WCC ammo and there was 4000000 rounds produced, then
each gun nut could have bought 1000 rounds of that ammo. Which would have
cost him about $400 or $500..... How many gun nuts would be nutty enough
to buy a thousand rounds of ammo for an old, obsolete, poor quality
rifle??
If only half of that order sunk with the Rio Escondido that would cut the
number available to the gun nuts to a mere 500 rounds, and a cost of $200
to $250 500 rounds of 6.5mm ammo per person is enough that there would
still be some of it available in 2013.... try to find some of it?
Walt
May 1, 2013, 11:01:05 PM5/1/13
to
Walt
May 1, 2013, 11:01:24 PM5/1/13
to
have had very few misfires. The average plinker doesn't worry much about
the reliability of the ammo..... If he's going hunting then he would want
good reliable soft nosed HUNTING ammo and NOT FMJ military ammo ...but
just for target practice and plinking, that old Italian ammo works OK.
HOWEVER...... Some of it is a little dangerous because the powder has
deteriorated and explodes rather than burns and that creates very high
chamber pressure.
Incidentally.... I've fired some of that ammo which has split the case but
didn't damage the rifle at all......A testiment to the strength of the
action of the rifle..... The Carcano action may not be as strong as a
Mauser, but still more than adequate.
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:01:11 AM5/2/13
to
understand the difference.
>> National Security you know.
>> We are pretty sure it was in 1960 or 1961.
>
> Why?
>
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:01:56 AM5/2/13
to
On 5/1/2013 8:29 AM, Bud wrote:
I am forbidden even from saying that someone is wrong, but WC defenders
area encouraged to call me a liar. Even after I quote and upload the
document.
For example, no one else has the Josiah Thompson book Six Seconds in
Dallas so they thought they could lie about what Tink wrote in it. Maybe
they forgot that I have Six Seconds in Dallas and often quote it.
John Fiorentino
May 2, 2013, 12:14:29 AM5/2/13
to
Your logic is faulty.
Boston has no connection to JFK.
I've looked into how the dent can be produced, so it isn't just
"LBJ's "Select Blue Ribbon Committee."
Now in general, do I think the government always tells the truth??
No, I don't.
Just as with JFK, that is why I've been at this for years.
Do I think the FBI can be devious?? Yes, I do.
But, none of that is evidence of a conspiracy in the JFK case.
news:88b8d00d-4ef6-4b45...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Boston has no connection to JFK.
I've looked into how the dent can be produced, so it isn't just
"LBJ's "Select Blue Ribbon Committee."
Now in general, do I think the government always tells the truth??
No, I don't.
Just as with JFK, that is why I've been at this for years.
Do I think the FBI can be devious?? Yes, I do.
But, none of that is evidence of a conspiracy in the JFK case.
news:88b8d00d-4ef6-4b45...@z8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:23:07 AM5/2/13
to
You are not allowed to ask where ALL the WCC ammo went.
> If only half that 4 million rounds sunk with the Rio Escondido that would
> have left 2 million rounds for the CIA to get rid of. I seriously doubt
> that 2 million rounds were ever dumped on the US market, because if there
> had been it wouldn't be too difficult to find a round or two of that
> ammo.... And even the brss from that ammo is extremely rare.
>
> Let's assume that there were 4000 ( a generous number) gun enthusists who
> were seeking that WCC ammo and there was 4000000 rounds produced, then
> each gun nut could have bought 1000 rounds of that ammo. Which would have
> cost him about $400 or $500..... How many gun nuts would be nutty enough
> to buy a thousand rounds of ammo for an old, obsolete, poor quality
> rifle??
Bud
May 2, 2013, 12:41:00 PM5/2/13
to
ever under the control of the CIA.
> Do you not
> understand the difference.
at some point. Knowing when this occurred and who bought it would be a
good starting point to determining whether it was unusual, suspicious
or significant that Oswald had these type bullets. CTers would rather
assume and make empty claims rather than work from actual information.
> >> National Security you know.
> >> We are pretty sure it was in 1960 or 1961.
>
> > Why?
>
> Because it was being sold to the public by then.
domain?
Bill Clarke
May 2, 2013, 6:09:58 PM5/2/13
to
In article <51814d91$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
More horse apples from Marsh. I have had many of my messages kicked back
because I used too strong a language in addressing your credibility and
intelligence. Just recently you called me phony and got away with it.
So this certainly isn't a one way street. So the moderators slip up every
once in a while. You gonna fire them?
>I am forbidden even from saying that someone is wrong, but WC defenders
>area encouraged to call me a liar. Even after I quote and upload the
>document.
The trouble here is it often isn't a quote but your interpretation of what
was said. This is often laughable. And when you upload a document it
often does not say what you claimed it said. You see the problem here?
Bill Clarke
because I used too strong a language in addressing your credibility and
intelligence. Just recently you called me phony and got away with it.
So this certainly isn't a one way street. So the moderators slip up every
once in a while. You gonna fire them?
>I am forbidden even from saying that someone is wrong, but WC defenders
>area encouraged to call me a liar. Even after I quote and upload the
>document.
was said. This is often laughable. And when you upload a document it
often does not say what you claimed it said. You see the problem here?
Bill Clarke
Canuck
May 2, 2013, 10:54:30 PM5/2/13
to
paperback edition published in 1976 with the Zapruder frames included
instead of drawings. Or were you referring to the original hardcover from
1967?
-prwhitmey
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 11:07:32 PM5/2/13
to
> Bill Clarke
>
Anthony Marsh
May 3, 2013, 7:11:44 AM5/3/13
to
most people.
If someone does have the paperback why would he have to lie about what
Tink wrote?
Bill Clarke
May 3, 2013, 3:42:07 PM5/3/13
to
In article <5183185f$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
Lately three people, including myself, have made this complaint about your
crap. So all three of us can't read? I think we know who doesn't read
here.
Bill Clarke
crap. So all three of us can't read? I think we know who doesn't read
here.
Bill Clarke
John Fiorentino
May 3, 2013, 7:48:40 PM5/3/13
to
Because "Anthony likes to call everyone a liar"
He can't help himself.
John F.
"Canuck" <prwh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2966f897-1926-48ad...@googlegroups.com...
He can't help himself.
John F.
"Canuck" <prwh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2966f897-1926-48ad...@googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 4, 2013, 7:25:21 PM5/4/13
to
> Bill Clarke
>
>
Canuck
May 6, 2013, 11:28:11 AM5/6/13
to
On Monday, April 29, 2013 3:12:07 PM UTC-7, Walt wrote:
> On Apr 28, 9:23 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
>
> On Apr 28, 9:23 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
>
> > ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
>
> > the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
>
> > clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
>
>
> > the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
>
> > clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
>
> > the FBI). He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
>
> > rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
>
> > to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
>
>
> > rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
>
> > to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
>
> > clip. IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
>
>
> > he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
>
> > M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
>
> > fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
>
> > and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>
> > properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>
>
>
>
> > M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
>
> > fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
>
> > and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>
> > properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>
>
>
> Of course a clip will work just fine with less than six rounds in
>
> it.... Silly question.... Do you think the rifle would stop working
>
> after one cartridge was fired???
>
>
>
> The clip simple holds the cartridges in place so the spring loaded
>
> elevator (follower) can push the cartridges up into the face of the
>
> bolt when the empty bolt is fully retracted.
>
>
>
> Incidentally ..... Any person who bought the 108 rounds of ammo that
>
> Kleins advertized who have received 18 clips not just ONE.....
>
> Apparently Kleins didn't know that the Italian ammo was packaged in
>
> clips of six rounds per clip, three clips per box, and six boxes per
>
> carton. A carton contained 108 cartridges of the 6.5 X 52mm 162grain
>
> FMJ ammunition.
>
>
>
> P.S. NOBODY fired that Carcano at anybody that day..........
As you can tell, I know nothing about how a rifle works. In my ignorance, I thought possibly the clip had to be fully loaded to start with, in order to work properly. Again, no evidence was found proving that Oswald purchased any ammunition and a clip, nor was any M-C ammunition found on him, at his rooming house or at the Paines' residence. - prwhitmey
>
> it.... Silly question.... Do you think the rifle would stop working
>
> after one cartridge was fired???
>
>
>
> The clip simple holds the cartridges in place so the spring loaded
>
> elevator (follower) can push the cartridges up into the face of the
>
> bolt when the empty bolt is fully retracted.
>
>
>
> Incidentally ..... Any person who bought the 108 rounds of ammo that
>
> Kleins advertized who have received 18 clips not just ONE.....
>
> Apparently Kleins didn't know that the Italian ammo was packaged in
>
> clips of six rounds per clip, three clips per box, and six boxes per
>
> carton. A carton contained 108 cartridges of the 6.5 X 52mm 162grain
>
> FMJ ammunition.
>
>
>
> P.S. NOBODY fired that Carcano at anybody that day..........
Canuck
May 6, 2013, 11:29:05 AM5/6/13
to
On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
> The article at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm about the
- prwhitmey
> The article at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm about the
>
> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
>
> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
>
> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
>
> the FBI). He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
>
> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
>
> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
>
> clip. IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
>
> he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
>
> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
>
> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
>
> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>
> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
I'm disappointed that John McAdams hasn't responded to my post by now. (Btw, I mistakenly thought the rifle could be loaded manually without the use of a clip, but the question still remains: Where did the clip and ammunition come from?)
> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found on
>
> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased a
>
> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according to
>
> the FBI). He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 108
>
> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't planning
>
> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or a
>
> clip. IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fact that
>
> he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that the
>
> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order to
>
> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left over,
>
> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>
> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
- prwhitmey
John Fiorentino
May 6, 2013, 3:12:15 PM5/6/13
to
It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
Walt
May 6, 2013, 7:37:28 PM5/6/13
to
On May 6, 10:29 am, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
> > The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
and shells came from FBI agent Guy Banister's operation in New
Orleans. He knew that Oswald had snitched and told RFK that the Cuban
exiles were being supplied with guns and ammo from the private
detective agency of ..."Banister & Associates", and they were being
trained on land owned by Marcello near Mandeville La. RFK used the
ATF to raid those training camps and it didn't take a genius to figger
out that Lee Oswald was the snitch. Since i've seen films of Cuban
exiles training with Mannlicher Carcano rifles I'm sure It would have
required no effort at all for David Ferrie (one of Banister's
"associates") to grab a clip and a few cartridges and spent shells to
be planted at the scene where they intended to use lee Oswald as the
scapegoat.
Bill Clarke
May 6, 2013, 8:22:24 PM5/6/13
to
In article <5187dea5$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
Bill Clarke
>
>It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
>
>John F.
That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
>It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
>
>John F.
who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
May 6, 2013, 8:22:56 PM5/6/13
to
On 5/6/2013 3:12 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
>
> John F.
>
Not easily, as Riva had to demonstrate.
> It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
>
> John F.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 6, 2013, 10:27:44 PM5/6/13
to
John Fiorentino
May 6, 2013, 10:33:12 PM5/6/13
to
And then Oswald just decided to murder a policeman and attempted to shoot
another in the movie theatre.
Now *that's* some patsy!!
news:87aaf5ef-8fc5-4822...@v14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
another in the movie theatre.
Now *that's* some patsy!!
news:87aaf5ef-8fc5-4822...@v14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 6, 2013, 10:33:34 PM5/6/13
to
On 5/6/2013 8:22 PM, Bill Clarke wrote:
> In article <5187dea5$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>>
>> It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>>
>>
>> John F.
>
> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> Bill Clarke
>
Riva, who was the master gunsmith in Italy who prepared the rifles to be
> In article <5187dea5$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>>
>> It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>>
>>
>> John F.
>
> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> Bill Clarke
>
exported to the US said you need a clip to fire the rifle and demonstrate
this to Crescent Arms.
Anthony Marsh
May 6, 2013, 10:33:44 PM5/6/13
to
Walt
May 6, 2013, 10:43:38 PM5/6/13
to
On May 6, 7:22 pm, Bill Clarke <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
Carcano?.... You can't simply drop a round in the chamber and close the
bolt and fire the Carcano as a single shot rifle. But if you want to
continue to make a fool of yourself, don't let those of us who know that
the rifle can't be used as a single shot rifle get in your way....
>
> >John F.
>
> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> Bill Clarke
>
>
>
> >"Canuck" <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>
>
>
> >It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance about the Mannlicher
>
>
> >It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
Carcano?.... You can't simply drop a round in the chamber and close the
bolt and fire the Carcano as a single shot rifle. But if you want to
continue to make a fool of yourself, don't let those of us who know that
the rifle can't be used as a single shot rifle get in your way....
>
> >John F.
>
> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> Bill Clarke
>
>
>
> >news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
> >> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
> >>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
> >> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
Bill Clarke
May 7, 2013, 12:37:53 PM5/7/13
to
In article <d0f25619-d038-4c9e...@y5g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>,
Walt says...
loaded manually. I noted what you had told me before on this subject and I
certainly believe what you told me.
Bill Clarke
>> >John F.
>>
>> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. =A0However, Walt,
>> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. =A0=
>on
>>
>> >>> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased =
>a
>>
>> >>> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according =
>to
>>
>> >>> the FBI). =A0He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 1=
>08
>>
>> >>> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't plann=
>ing
>>
>> >>> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or =
>a
>>
>> >>> clip. =A0IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fa=
>ct
>> >>> that
>>
>> >>> he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that=
> the
>>
>> >>> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order =
>to
>>
>> >>> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left ov=
Walt says...
>
>On May 6, 7:22=A0pm, Bill Clarke <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>>
>>
>>
>> >It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
>
>Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance about the Mannlicher
>Carcano?.... You can't simply drop a round in the chamber and close the
>bolt and fire the Carcano as a single shot rifle. But if you want to
>continue to make a fool of yourself, don't let those of us who know that
>the rifle can't be used as a single shot rifle get in your way....
Take it easy Walt. You just shot at me and I'm not the one that said it CAN be
>On May 6, 7:22=A0pm, Bill Clarke <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>>
>>
>>
>> >It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
>
>Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance about the Mannlicher
>Carcano?.... You can't simply drop a round in the chamber and close the
>bolt and fire the Carcano as a single shot rifle. But if you want to
>continue to make a fool of yourself, don't let those of us who know that
>the rifle can't be used as a single shot rifle get in your way....
loaded manually. I noted what you had told me before on this subject and I
certainly believe what you told me.
Bill Clarke
>> >John F.
>>
>> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. =A0However, Walt,
>> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. =A0=
>I
>> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>>
>> Bill Clarke
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Canuck" <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
>> >>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
>>
>> >>> ammunition clip provides evidence that a clip was in the rifle found =
>> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>>
>> Bill Clarke
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Canuck" <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
>> >>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
>>
>on
>>
>> >>> the sixth floor, BUT there is no evidence that Oswald ever purchased =
>a
>>
>> >>> clip (as there is no evidence he purchased any ammunition, according =
>to
>>
>> >>> the FBI). =A0He could have obtained a clip for free if he purchased 1=
>08
>>
>> >>> rounds of ammo. when he bought his rifle, but perhaps he wasn't plann=
>ing
>>
>> >>> to do any rapid firing, and therefore didn't need that much ammo. or =
>a
>>
>> >>> clip. =A0IF he fired at Walker (which appears to be the case), the fa=
>ct
>> >>> that
>>
>> >>> he only fired one shot suggests he wasn't using a clip. The fact that=
> the
>>
>> >>> M-C rifle had a clip strongly suggests someone else used it in order =
>to
>>
>> >>> fire three shots rapidly at JFK and Connally, with one bullet left ov=
>er,
>>
>> >>> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>>
>> >>> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>>
>> >> I'm disappointed that John McAdams hasn't responded to my post by now.
>> >> (Btw, I mistakenly thought the rifle could be loaded manually without =
>>
>> >>> and that Oswald was, indeed, "...just a patsy." Btw, will a clip work
>>
>> >>> properly if it contains less than six rounds? - prwhitmey
>>
>> >> I'm disappointed that John McAdams hasn't responded to my post by now.
Canuck
May 7, 2013, 12:39:19 PM5/7/13
to
John Fiorentino
May 7, 2013, 12:40:39 PM5/7/13
to
Well, the HSCA did it, and I've spoken with several Carcano owners who have
done it.
There's more, but why bother.
John F.
"Bill Clarke" <Bill_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
done it.
There's more, but why bother.
John F.
"Bill Clarke" <Bill_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 7, 2013, 12:41:27 PM5/7/13
to
On 5/6/2013 10:33 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> And then Oswald just decided to murder a policeman and attempted to
> shoot another in the movie theatre.
>
> Now *that's* some patsy!!
>
> John F.
>
Yeah, like most patsies meekly go along with the false arrest and freely
> And then Oswald just decided to murder a policeman and attempted to
> shoot another in the movie theatre.
>
> Now *that's* some patsy!!
>
> John F.
>
confess to crimes they couldn't possibly have committed.
Bill Clarke
May 7, 2013, 1:42:47 PM5/7/13
to
In article <518892da$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
Bill Clarke
>
>Well, the HSCA did it, and I've spoken with several Carcano owners who have
>done it.
>
>There's more, but why bother.
>
>John F.
Why bother! There it is.
>Well, the HSCA did it, and I've spoken with several Carcano owners who have
>done it.
>
>There's more, but why bother.
>
>John F.
Bill Clarke
Walt
May 7, 2013, 3:38:14 PM5/7/13
to
On May 7, 11:40 am, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
wrote:
John Fiorentino
If you really wanted to know you could find a Carcano owner in your area
and go there and try it for yourself.....I'm totally confident that you'd
reverse your stance.... But I doubt that you really want to know the
truth.
>
> John F.
>
> "Bill Clarke" <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
> > In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
wrote:
> Well, the HSCA did it, and I've spoken with several Carcano owners who have
> done it.
>
> There's more, but why bother.
That's right.....Don't bother me with the facts...my minds made up...
> done it.
>
> There's more, but why bother.
John Fiorentino
If you really wanted to know you could find a Carcano owner in your area
and go there and try it for yourself.....I'm totally confident that you'd
reverse your stance.... But I doubt that you really want to know the
truth.
>
> John F.
>
> "Bill Clarke" <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
> > In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>
> >>It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
> >>John F.
>
> > That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> > who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> > have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> > Bill Clarke
>
> >>"Canuck" <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
> >>John F.
>
> > That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> > who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> > have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> > Bill Clarke
>
> >>news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
> >>>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
> >>> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
John Fiorentino
May 7, 2013, 3:39:25 PM5/7/13
to
HSCA Firearms Panel testimony: (excerpts)
Mr. EDGAR. In your test firings of the rifle, where you by accident
created the cartridge with the dent on it, similar to the one that was
found in the Texas book depository, what were you firing at and where were
you firing?
Mr. LUTZ. This was a single cartridge being inserted into the chamber and
firing into a cotton waste recovery box, a box approximately 12 to 14
inches in dimensions in width, approximately 10 to 12 feet long, filled
with a recovery material, a cotton waste material, backing away from the
box, a foot or two, and pointing the muzzle into the box and then firing
into it, in order to recover the projectile.
Mr. EDGAR. But you weren't firing with clip--using the clip, were you?
Mr. LUTZ. No sir; I did not.
Mr. EDGAR. Did anyone on the panel fire with the clip in?
Mr. LUTZ. I do not believe so; no, sir.
John F.
"Bill Clarke" <Bill_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
Mr. EDGAR. In your test firings of the rifle, where you by accident
created the cartridge with the dent on it, similar to the one that was
found in the Texas book depository, what were you firing at and where were
you firing?
Mr. LUTZ. This was a single cartridge being inserted into the chamber and
firing into a cotton waste recovery box, a box approximately 12 to 14
inches in dimensions in width, approximately 10 to 12 feet long, filled
with a recovery material, a cotton waste material, backing away from the
box, a foot or two, and pointing the muzzle into the box and then firing
into it, in order to recover the projectile.
Mr. EDGAR. But you weren't firing with clip--using the clip, were you?
Mr. LUTZ. No sir; I did not.
Mr. EDGAR. Did anyone on the panel fire with the clip in?
Mr. LUTZ. I do not believe so; no, sir.
John F.
"Bill Clarke" <Bill_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
John Fiorentino
May 7, 2013, 4:52:55 PM5/7/13
to
What Walt is ACTUALLY saying here is that HE can't do it.
John F.
news:d0f25619-d038-4c9e...@y5g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
John F.
news:d0f25619-d038-4c9e...@y5g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
John Fiorentino
May 7, 2013, 4:55:54 PM5/7/13
to
Walt:
Perhaps you are unaware that I worked with Dr. John Lattimer, author of
Kennedy and Lincoln who wrote the intro. to my book who tested 4 Carcanos.
This is what was found..............
Some Carcano Actions Will Not Accept Single Cartridges
The KEYWORD being SOME, and this can be found on Page 299 of Kennedy and
Lincoln.
So, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about, nor that I don't
news:1e0fddd3-cc62-4586...@i3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Perhaps you are unaware that I worked with Dr. John Lattimer, author of
Kennedy and Lincoln who wrote the intro. to my book who tested 4 Carcanos.
This is what was found..............
Some Carcano Actions Will Not Accept Single Cartridges
The KEYWORD being SOME, and this can be found on Page 299 of Kennedy and
Lincoln.
So, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about, nor that I don't
want to know the truth.
I was probably looking into this case when you were still in diapers.
news:1e0fddd3-cc62-4586...@i3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Walt
May 7, 2013, 11:30:49 PM5/7/13
to
On May 7, 3:55 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net> wrote:
> Walt:
>
> Perhaps you are unaware that I worked with Dr. John Lattimer, author of
> Kennedy and Lincoln who wrote the intro. to my book who tested 4 Carcanos.
>
> This is what was found..............
>
> Some Carcano Actions Will Not Accept Single Cartridges
No, it may be that some Carcano's WILL accept single cartridges... I'm
> Walt:
>
> Perhaps you are unaware that I worked with Dr. John Lattimer, author of
> Kennedy and Lincoln who wrote the intro. to my book who tested 4 Carcanos.
>
> This is what was found..............
>
> Some Carcano Actions Will Not Accept Single Cartridges
sure I could modify one of my Carcanos so that it could be used as a
single shot rifle.... Maybe if a bolt was badly worn the extractor finger
"MIGHT" slide over the rim of a cartridge in the firing chamber but that's
not the norm. As Marsh has pointed out ..A fractory rep traveled from
Italy to the US to demonstrate that the Carcano was never designed to be
used as a single shot rifle.
PS...I'm NOT impressed by the urine sniffer... You'd have been better
received if you hadn't brought up that damned liar.....Lattimer.
>
> The KEYWORD being SOME, and this can be found on Page 299 of Kennedy and
> Lincoln.
>
> So, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about, nor that I don't
> want to know the truth.
>
> I was probably looking into this case when you were still in diapers.
>
> John F.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 7, 2013, 11:31:21 PM5/7/13
to
On 5/7/2013 3:39 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> HSCA Firearms Panel testimony: (excerpts)
>
>
> Mr. EDGAR. In your test firings of the rifle, where you by accident
> created the cartridge with the dent on it, similar to the one that was
> found in the Texas book depository, what were you firing at and where
> were you firing?
> Mr. LUTZ. This was a single cartridge being inserted into the chamber
> and firing into a cotton waste recovery box, a box approximately 12 to
> 14 inches in dimensions in width, approximately 10 to 12 feet long,
> filled with a recovery material, a cotton waste material, backing away
> from the box, a foot or two, and pointing the muzzle into the box and
> then firing into it, in order to recover the projectile.
> Mr. EDGAR. But you weren't firing with clip--using the clip, were you?
> Mr. LUTZ. No sir; I did not.
> Mr. EDGAR. Did anyone on the panel fire with the clip in?
> Mr. LUTZ. I do not believe so; no, sir.
>
> John F.
>
Just FYI you can load a round into the clip and then load the clip into
> HSCA Firearms Panel testimony: (excerpts)
>
>
> Mr. EDGAR. In your test firings of the rifle, where you by accident
> created the cartridge with the dent on it, similar to the one that was
> found in the Texas book depository, what were you firing at and where
> were you firing?
> Mr. LUTZ. This was a single cartridge being inserted into the chamber
> and firing into a cotton waste recovery box, a box approximately 12 to
> 14 inches in dimensions in width, approximately 10 to 12 feet long,
> filled with a recovery material, a cotton waste material, backing away
> from the box, a foot or two, and pointing the muzzle into the box and
> then firing into it, in order to recover the projectile.
> Mr. EDGAR. But you weren't firing with clip--using the clip, were you?
> Mr. LUTZ. No sir; I did not.
> Mr. EDGAR. Did anyone on the panel fire with the clip in?
> Mr. LUTZ. I do not believe so; no, sir.
>
> John F.
>
the rifle, then load the round into the rifle and remove the clip.
John Fiorentino
May 8, 2013, 5:30:07 PM5/8/13
to
And you can also play tic tac toe if you wish.
John F.
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5189b071$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
John F.
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5189b071$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
John Fiorentino
May 8, 2013, 5:30:45 PM5/8/13
to
Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
news:485c182d-088c-4102...@e14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
news:485c182d-088c-4102...@e14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
May 8, 2013, 7:05:51 PM5/8/13
to
overwhelming evidence Oswald purchased a rifle by mail order, they argue
he should have walked into any gun shop in Dallas and purchased it over
the counter, paying cash so as to leave no paper trail.
Faced with the lack of evidence that Oswald bought a clip or ammo (which
implies he did exactly what they suggest he should have done with the
rifle -- that is, he walked into a gun shop in Dallas and purchased it
over the counter, paying cash so as to leave no paper trail), they ask
where's the evidence he ever bought either?
Of course, they always ignore the best evidence he procured both sometime
before the assassination -- his rifle had both a clip in it and a bullet
in it when it was found about 40 minutes after the assassination on the
sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building. Three shells
were likewise found at the window from which an assassin was seen firing,
those shells were determined to be traceable to his weapon. Whether he
paid cash for them, ordered them by mail (but didn't keep the receipt) or
found them on the street doesn't really matter. He had a clip and bullets
enough to accomplish the task on 11/22/63. And he did.
Asking where's the evidence he purchased a rifle and clip is just
misdirection, and meaningless to solving the case. Can any conspiracy
theorist cite one criminal case where the prosecution had to prove where
the accused purchased the bullets and a clip?
No? Then why does it matter here?
Hank
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
May 8, 2013, 7:06:07 PM5/8/13
to
On May 6, 10:33 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
wrote:
It would be nice if you could establish Ferrie was in Dallas, not in
Houston on 11/22/63 before you alleged any such frame-up scenario. Of
course, you cannot.
It would also be nice if you could establish Ferrie had access to the
TSBD on the day of the assassination, but you have no evidence of that
either.
You just have a scenario, unsupported by any evidence. Is that a fair
assessment of what you posted above?
wrote:
> And then Oswald just decided to murder a policeman and attempted to shoot
> another in the movie theatre.
>
> Now *that's* some patsy!!
>
> John F.
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
> another in the movie theatre.
>
> Now *that's* some patsy!!
>
> John F.
>
Houston on 11/22/63 before you alleged any such frame-up scenario. Of
course, you cannot.
It would also be nice if you could establish Ferrie had access to the
TSBD on the day of the assassination, but you have no evidence of that
either.
You just have a scenario, unsupported by any evidence. Is that a fair
assessment of what you posted above?
Walt
May 8, 2013, 7:07:52 PM5/8/13
to
On May 7, 10:31 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/7/2013 3:39 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > HSCA Firearms Panel testimony: (excerpts)
>
> > Mr. EDGAR. In your test firings of the rifle, where you by accident
> > created the cartridge with the dent on it, similar to the one that was
> > found in the Texas book depository, what were you firing at and where
> > were you firing?
> > Mr. LUTZ. This was a single cartridge being inserted into the chamber
> > and firing into a cotton waste recovery box, a box approximately 12 to
> > 14 inches in dimensions in width, approximately 10 to 12 feet long,
> > filled with a recovery material, a cotton waste material, backing away
> > from the box, a foot or two, and pointing the muzzle into the box and
> > then firing into it, in order to recover the projectile.
> > Mr. EDGAR. But you weren't firing with clip--using the clip, were you?
> > Mr. LUTZ. No sir; I did not.
> > Mr. EDGAR. Did anyone on the panel fire with the clip in?
> > Mr. LUTZ. I do not believe so; no, sir.
>
> > John F.
>
> Just FYI you can load a round into the clip and then load the clip into
> the rifle, then load the round into the rifle and remove the clip.
I hadn't thought of that..... And I don't believe that would thought
> On 5/7/2013 3:39 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > HSCA Firearms Panel testimony: (excerpts)
>
> > Mr. EDGAR. In your test firings of the rifle, where you by accident
> > created the cartridge with the dent on it, similar to the one that was
> > found in the Texas book depository, what were you firing at and where
> > were you firing?
> > Mr. LUTZ. This was a single cartridge being inserted into the chamber
> > and firing into a cotton waste recovery box, a box approximately 12 to
> > 14 inches in dimensions in width, approximately 10 to 12 feet long,
> > filled with a recovery material, a cotton waste material, backing away
> > from the box, a foot or two, and pointing the muzzle into the box and
> > then firing into it, in order to recover the projectile.
> > Mr. EDGAR. But you weren't firing with clip--using the clip, were you?
> > Mr. LUTZ. No sir; I did not.
> > Mr. EDGAR. Did anyone on the panel fire with the clip in?
> > Mr. LUTZ. I do not believe so; no, sir.
>
> > John F.
>
> Just FYI you can load a round into the clip and then load the clip into
> the rifle, then load the round into the rifle and remove the clip.
of a a "single shot" rifle, albeit you're right that a single live
cartridge could be loaded into the firing chamber in the manner that
you describe.
I stand by my position that the Carcano CANNOT be used as a single
shot rifle by simply dropping a live round into the firing chamber and
closing the bolt. I can't be done because the rifle was not
designed to use as a single shot rifle, and the bolt won't close if a
live round is simply dropped into the firing chamber.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bill Clarke" <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> >news:km95s...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> In article <5187dea...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
>
> >>> It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
> >>> John F.
>
> >> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> >> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> >> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> >> Bill Clarke
>
> >>> "Canuck" <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> It CAN be loaded manually with a single round w/o the clip.
>
> >>> John F.
>
> >> That would be true of every bolt rifle I've ever shoot. However, Walt,
> >> who has and shoots a Carcano, says it can't be done with the Carcano. I
> >> have no experience with the Carcano so I can't say one way or the other.
>
> >> Bill Clarke
>
> >>>news:6af8a165-b301-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
> >>>> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
> >>>>> The article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htmabout the
> >>>> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:09 PM UTC-7, Canuck wrote:
John Fiorentino
May 9, 2013, 12:12:51 AM5/9/13
to
You have to stick with your misinformation because you've been so emphatic
about it.
You believe the HSCA were "liars" as was my good friend Dr. Lattimer.
You have no credibility.
news:f0d0e13f-342d-4547...@s18g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
about it.
You believe the HSCA were "liars" as was my good friend Dr. Lattimer.
You have no credibility.
news:f0d0e13f-342d-4547...@s18g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Walt
May 9, 2013, 12:14:31 AM5/9/13
to
On May 8, 6:06 pm, "Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)"
Huh???..... Who said anything about David Ferrie being in Dallas on
11 /22 /63?? Where's your head?
> It would also be nice if you could establish Ferrie had access to the
> TSBD on the day of the assassination, but you have no evidence of that
> either.
Again I ask...Where is your head?
11 /22 /63?? Where's your head?
> It would also be nice if you could establish Ferrie had access to the
> TSBD on the day of the assassination, but you have no evidence of that
> either.
Chad Anthony
May 9, 2013, 12:17:37 AM5/9/13
to
I own several carcanos and yes you can load them with a single bullet sans
clip. Not sure why you would though.
clip. Not sure why you would though.
Anthony Marsh
May 9, 2013, 12:23:09 AM5/9/13
to
found a way to do an autopsy without an exhumation. Even Wecht had never
read of it.
> I stand by my position that the Carcano CANNOT be used as a single
> shot rifle by simply dropping a live round into the firing chamber and
> closing the bolt. I can't be done because the rifle was not
> designed to use as a single shot rifle, and the bolt won't close if a
> live round is simply dropped into the firing chamber.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 9, 2013, 12:25:46 AM5/9/13
to
have pointed out that buying it in a store risks being spotted or followed
by the FBI or the clerk later remembering who bought it.
> Faced with the lack of evidence that Oswald bought a clip or ammo (which
> implies he did exactly what they suggest he should have done with the
> rifle -- that is, he walked into a gun shop in Dallas and purchased it
> over the counter, paying cash so as to leave no paper trail), they ask
> where's the evidence he ever bought either?
>
> Of course, they always ignore the best evidence he procured both sometime
> before the assassination -- his rifle had both a clip in it and a bullet
> in it when it was found about 40 minutes after the assassination on the
> sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building. Three shells
> were likewise found at the window from which an assassin was seen firing,
> those shells were determined to be traceable to his weapon. Whether he
> paid cash for them, ordered them by mail (but didn't keep the receipt) or
> found them on the street doesn't really matter. He had a clip and bullets
> enough to accomplish the task on 11/22/63. And he did.
>
enough credit for kooky thinking. They can claim that the real assassin
not Oswald bought the ammo and clip or it was supplied by the CIA, who
after ordered the ammo to be manufactured. Boy do they ever plan ahead,
those guys. Knowing in 1954 that they needed Carcano ammo for the JFK
assassination! ;]>
> Asking where's the evidence he purchased a rifle and clip is just
> misdirection, and meaningless to solving the case. Can any conspiracy
> theorist cite one criminal case where the prosecution had to prove where
> the accused purchased the bullets and a clip?
>
Anthony Marsh
May 9, 2013, 12:29:31 AM5/9/13
to
On 5/8/2013 5:30 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>
> Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>
> John F.
>
No, just the WC defenders.
> Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>
> Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>
> John F.
>
John Fiorentino
May 9, 2013, 3:42:54 PM5/9/13
to
Thank you Chad!
John F.
"Chad Anthony" <timetravel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ca257989-5da7-42c7...@googlegroups.com...
John F.
"Chad Anthony" <timetravel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ca257989-5da7-42c7...@googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 9, 2013, 5:25:55 PM5/9/13
to
On 5/9/2013 12:12 AM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> You have to stick with your misinformation because you've been so
> emphatic about it.
>
> You believe the HSCA were "liars" as was my good friend Dr. Lattimer.
>
> You have no credibility.
>
> John F.
>
That's all we need to know about you when you call Lattimer your good
> You have to stick with your misinformation because you've been so
> emphatic about it.
>
> You believe the HSCA were "liars" as was my good friend Dr. Lattimer.
>
> You have no credibility.
>
> John F.
>
friend.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
May 9, 2013, 5:30:37 PM5/9/13
to
(one of Banister's "associates") to grab a clip and a few cartridges
and spent shells to be planted at the scene where they intended to use
lee Oswald as the scapegoat."
and spent shells to be planted at the scene where they intended to use
lee Oswald as the scapegoat."
> Where did the clip and ammunition come from?
> Of course that's an unanswerable question...... I'd bet the clip
> and shells came from FBI agent Guy Banister's operation in New
> Orleans. He knew that Oswald had snitched and told RFK that the Cuban
> exiles were being supplied with guns and ammo from the private
> detective agency of ..."Banister & Associates", and they were being
> trained on land owned by Marcello near Mandeville La. RFK used the
> ATF to raid those training camps and it didn't take a genius to figger
> out that Lee Oswald was the snitch. Since i've seen films of Cuban
> exiles training with Mannlicher Carcano rifles I'm sure It would have
> required no effort at all for David Ferrie (one of Banister's
> "associates") to grab a clip and a few cartridges and spent shells to
> be planted at the scene where they intended to use lee Oswald as the
> scapegoat.
I'm not aware of Oswald being suggested as a patsy / scapecoat for any
> Of course that's an unanswerable question...... I'd bet the clip
> and shells came from FBI agent Guy Banister's operation in New
> Orleans. He knew that Oswald had snitched and told RFK that the Cuban
> exiles were being supplied with guns and ammo from the private
> detective agency of ..."Banister & Associates", and they were being
> trained on land owned by Marcello near Mandeville La. RFK used the
> ATF to raid those training camps and it didn't take a genius to figger
> out that Lee Oswald was the snitch. Since i've seen films of Cuban
> exiles training with Mannlicher Carcano rifles I'm sure It would have
> required no effort at all for David Ferrie (one of Banister's
> "associates") to grab a clip and a few cartridges and spent shells to
> be planted at the scene where they intended to use lee Oswald as the
> scapegoat.
crimes other than those in Dallas (Walker / JFK / Tippit).
If you were suggesting something other than Dallas, you certainly
didn't make it clear.
And of course, your entire paragraph is just one undocumented
assertion upon another, with no evidence to support any of it. But
let's concentrate on the Ferrie angle. Where's the evidence that
Ferrie was planning to scapegoat Oswald for anything, and doesn't your
argument suggest Jim Garrison was trying the wrtong man for the wrong
crime? (Garrison accused Shaw of working in concert with both Ferrie
and Oswald to assassinate JFK; your argument appears to be making the
claim that Oswald and Ferrie were working at cross-purposes and not
working together to assassinate JFK). That implies the indictment of
Shaw was erroneous in its particulars.
Hank
Walt
May 9, 2013, 8:56:01 PM5/9/13
to
On May 8, 11:29 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/8/2013 5:30 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
> > Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>
> > Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>
> > John F.
>
> No, just the WC defenders.
Tony, I wonder if you really know how right you are ..... Those who CLAIM
> On 5/8/2013 5:30 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
> > Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>
> > Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>
> > John F.
>
> No, just the WC defenders.
to believe the WR or actually believe that it's true have to be liars of
the worst kind..... I person who isn't even true to themselves.
Any intelligent person with average ability to reason can see that the WR
is a lie...and yet these liars will lie to themselves and claim that it's
true.
I wonder how long this self deception has been rampant in America? I
witnessed it again yesterday in the hearings on the sacking of our embassy
in Benghazi. An person with average reasoning ability can see that the
attack was not a mob that ran amuck. It obviously was an organized attack
with powerful military weapons like mortars and RPG's.
Before the fires had even burned out in Benghazi, President Obama's
Whitehouse team were telling reporters that the attack happened because of
a video that made the muslims angry. And they were going to find out who
made that video and hold them responsible. And sure enough they arrested
a Christian and put him in prison.
Clearly President Obama's Whitehouse had a story cooked up and ready to be
handed out to the gullible public .
And that's a dead give away that they KNEW the embassy was going to be
attacked.....They had weaken the security of the embassy by reducing
the number of security personnel and they refused to grant permission
for two rescue teams to go to the aid of the besieged embassy....
Obviously Obama knew the embassy was going to be hit on the eleventh
aniversary of the 9/11/01 muslim attack on the economic heart of the
freeworld.
This isn't any mystery to any person who can see......and yet very few
at the hearings will look at the facts. Most prefer the fantasy, just
as most people prefer to believe the WR, even when their good God
given brains reveal that it's a lie.
Walt
May 9, 2013, 9:07:22 PM5/9/13
to
On May 9, 4:30 pm, "Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)"
Where in that does it say that David Ferrie was in Dallas and planted the
shells? Ferrie could have sent the rifle, the clip the cartridges and and
the pristine "Magic Bullet " to Dallas with any one of many of the
plotters who were involved in the plot to murder JFK. I'd suspect the two
Cubans that Rose Charamie fled from were carrying that material.
Oh aren't you the clever one?..... We both know that covert operators
don't leave e clear trail that leads to them.
That's why they set Lee Oswald up to take the blame.... I guess you've
never heard that before, huh?
shells? Ferrie could have sent the rifle, the clip the cartridges and and
the pristine "Magic Bullet " to Dallas with any one of many of the
plotters who were involved in the plot to murder JFK. I'd suspect the two
Cubans that Rose Charamie fled from were carrying that material.
don't leave e clear trail that leads to them.
That's why they set Lee Oswald up to take the blame.... I guess you've
never heard that before, huh?
John Fiorentino
May 9, 2013, 10:54:06 PM5/9/13
to
How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination because
I support its *conclusions*?
I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
John F.
news:3511d519-11cb-4496...@b2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination because
I support its *conclusions*?
I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
John F.
news:3511d519-11cb-4496...@b2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
John Fiorentino
May 9, 2013, 10:59:32 PM5/9/13
to
Thank You!
I take that as a compliment!
news:518baff4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
I take that as a compliment!
news:518baff4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Anthony Marsh
May 10, 2013, 9:38:04 AM5/10/13
to
On 5/9/2013 8:56 PM, Walt wrote:
> On May 8, 11:29 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 5/8/2013 5:30 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>>
>>> Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>>
>>> John F.
>>
>> No, just the WC defenders.
>
> Tony, I wonder if you really know how right you are ..... Those who CLAIM
> to believe the WR or actually believe that it's true have to be liars of
> the worst kind..... I person who isn't even true to themselves.
>
> Any intelligent person with average ability to reason can see that the WR
> is a lie...and yet these liars will lie to themselves and claim that it's
> true.
>
> I wonder how long this self deception has been rampant in America? I
> witnessed it again yesterday in the hearings on the sacking of our embassy
> in Benghazi. An person with average reasoning ability can see that the
> attack was not a mob that ran amuck. It obviously was an organized attack
> with powerful military weapons like mortars and RPG's.
>
> Before the fires had even burned out in Benghazi, President Obama's
> Whitehouse team were telling reporters that the attack happened because of
> a video that made the muslims angry. And they were going to find out who
> made that video and hold them responsible. And sure enough they arrested
> a Christian and put him in prison.
>
Wrong. He said it was a terrorist attack. The demonstration was not a
> On May 8, 11:29 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 5/8/2013 5:30 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>>
>>> Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>>
>>> John F.
>>
>> No, just the WC defenders.
>
> Tony, I wonder if you really know how right you are ..... Those who CLAIM
> to believe the WR or actually believe that it's true have to be liars of
> the worst kind..... I person who isn't even true to themselves.
>
> Any intelligent person with average ability to reason can see that the WR
> is a lie...and yet these liars will lie to themselves and claim that it's
> true.
>
> I wonder how long this self deception has been rampant in America? I
> witnessed it again yesterday in the hearings on the sacking of our embassy
> in Benghazi. An person with average reasoning ability can see that the
> attack was not a mob that ran amuck. It obviously was an organized attack
> with powerful military weapons like mortars and RPG's.
>
> Before the fires had even burned out in Benghazi, President Obama's
> Whitehouse team were telling reporters that the attack happened because of
> a video that made the muslims angry. And they were going to find out who
> made that video and hold them responsible. And sure enough they arrested
> a Christian and put him in prison.
>
terrorist attack. However you can claim that it was a diversionary trick
to prepare for the terrorist attack. That's ok with me. The
demonstrators were many ordinary civilians protesting in one place. The
Commandos were a small squad attacking in another place.
> Clearly President Obama's Whitehouse had a story cooked up and ready to be
> handed out to the gullible public .
>
> And that's a dead give away that they KNEW the embassy was going to be
> attacked.....They had weaken the security of the embassy by reducing
> the number of security personnel and they refused to grant permission
> for two rescue teams to go to the aid of the besieged embassy....
deaths.
> Obviously Obama knew the embassy was going to be hit on the eleventh
> aniversary of the 9/11/01 muslim attack on the economic heart of the
> freeworld.
>
Why don't you claim that Obama planned the Boston Marathon bombing?
> This isn't any mystery to any person who can see......and yet very few
> at the hearings will look at the facts. Most prefer the fantasy, just
> as most people prefer to believe the WR, even when their good God
> given brains reveal that it's a lie.
>
destroy this country.
Anthony Marsh
May 10, 2013, 9:47:56 AM5/10/13
to
On 5/9/2013 10:54 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
> Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination
> because I support its *conclusions*?
>
> I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>
> John F.
>
Because you are an extreme rightwinger who hates Liberals like President
> How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
> Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination
> because I support its *conclusions*?
>
> I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>
> John F.
>
Obama and Hillary Clinton.
So, how's your Tea Party going. How many seats are you trying to lose in
the next election?
>
>
>
> "Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
> news:3511d519-11cb-4496...@b2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> On May 8, 11:29 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 5/8/2013 5:30 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>>
>> > Well, I see you are now a true Antony Marsh convert.
>>
>> > Everyone is a "liar" is that it?
>>
>> > John F.
>>
>> No, just the WC defenders.
>
> Tony, I wonder if you really know how right you are ..... Those who CLAIM
> to believe the WR or actually believe that it's true have to be liars of
> the worst kind..... I person who isn't even true to themselves.
>
> Any intelligent person with average ability to reason can see that the WR
> is a lie...and yet these liars will lie to themselves and claim that it's
> true.
>
> I wonder how long this self deception has been rampant in America? I
> witnessed it again yesterday in the hearings on the sacking of our embassy
> in Benghazi. An person with average reasoning ability can see that the
> attack was not a mob that ran amuck. It obviously was an organized attack
> with powerful military weapons like mortars and RPG's.
>
> Before the fires had even burned out in Benghazi, President Obama's
> Whitehouse team were telling reporters that the attack happened because of
> a video that made the muslims angry. And they were going to find out who
> made that video and hold them responsible. And sure enough they arrested
> a Christian and put him in prison.
>
There were two separate incidents in two separate places. One a
demonstration and the other a commando attack.
> Clearly President Obama's Whitehouse had a story cooked up and ready to be
> handed out to the gullible public .
>
Bill Clarke
May 10, 2013, 4:40:43 PM5/10/13
to
In article <518c5915$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, John Fiorentino says...
a long time.
Bill Clarke
>
>How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
>Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination because
>I support its *conclusions*?
>
>I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>
>John F.
I agree, both times. Benghazi was the most disgusting thing I've seen in
>How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
>Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination because
>I support its *conclusions*?
>
>I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>
>John F.
a long time.
Bill Clarke
John Fiorentino
May 10, 2013, 4:44:28 PM5/10/13
to
Firstly Marsh......I am not "an extreme right-winger."
I don't care for Obama because his administration is inept. "Billary" (the
buck stops here Clinton) is INDEED responsible for the Benghazi mess as
she herself said.
The FACT is Americans were killed in that attack and NOTHING has been done
(or was) done about it.
Not 1 person mentioned as a suspect, not 1 arrest, NOTHING.
While the FBI, or should I say the Keystone Cops run around like its a
Chinese Fire Drill, Ms. Clintoon asks, "What does it matter?"
Well, I for 1 say it matters!
Listen and comprehend how the "spin" has gone. Statements like the
military "couldn't have gotten there in time." are meaningless crud.
The FACT is they *couldn't* have gotten there in time, because they never
even tried. There was NO WAY at the time to KNOW when it was *too late* to
do anything.
No extra vigilance on the anniversary of 9/11??
Complete and utter BS.
I call for a special prosecutor, just as we removed the malignant boil
that was Richard Nixon.
news:518c841b$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
I don't care for Obama because his administration is inept. "Billary" (the
buck stops here Clinton) is INDEED responsible for the Benghazi mess as
she herself said.
The FACT is Americans were killed in that attack and NOTHING has been done
(or was) done about it.
Not 1 person mentioned as a suspect, not 1 arrest, NOTHING.
While the FBI, or should I say the Keystone Cops run around like its a
Chinese Fire Drill, Ms. Clintoon asks, "What does it matter?"
Well, I for 1 say it matters!
Listen and comprehend how the "spin" has gone. Statements like the
military "couldn't have gotten there in time." are meaningless crud.
The FACT is they *couldn't* have gotten there in time, because they never
even tried. There was NO WAY at the time to KNOW when it was *too late* to
do anything.
No extra vigilance on the anniversary of 9/11??
Complete and utter BS.
I call for a special prosecutor, just as we removed the malignant boil
that was Richard Nixon.
news:518c841b$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Walt
May 10, 2013, 4:46:20 PM5/10/13
to
honest person in the world knows theat the Obama whitehouse blamed the
sacking of our embassy, and the murder of the Americans, on a Christian
who had made a video that enraged the Muslims. Obama lied and attempted
to get us to believe that the video made in the USA by a Christian was
responsible. Which I might add, is an utterly STUPID idea! Perhaps in
Obamas socialist mind the mob wouldn't be held responsible for their
ACTIONS. and the creator of the video should be persecuted...... But in
our society, it's illegal to kill someone simply because they say
something that you disagree with.
The demonstration was not a
> terrorist attack. However you can claim that it was a diversionary trick
> to prepare for the terrorist attack. That's ok with me. The
> demonstrators were many ordinary civilians protesting in one place. The
> Commandos were a small squad attacking in another place.
>
> > Clearly President Obama's Whitehouse had a story cooked up and ready to be
> > handed out to the gullible public .
>
> Wrong. Like everyone else they were caught off guard.
BULLSHIT!!..... THEY KNEW THE "ATTACK" WAS COMMING AND ANTICIPATED
> > Clearly President Obama's Whitehouse had a story cooked up and ready to be
> > handed out to the gullible public .
>
> Wrong. Like everyone else they were caught off guard.
THE MUSLIMS GAINING ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.
It's patently clear that this was just another harebrained scheme created
by Obama's team that went off the tracks, just like operation "Fast and
Furious". There was "something" in our embassy that Obama wanted the
"angry mob" to get their hands on. The Obama team may not have
anticipated that things would go awry, and Americans would be killed in
their scheme, just as they never anticipated that an American would be
murdered during operation "FAST AND FURIOUS", but Obama is responsible for
both botched operations....and the deaths of the Americans.
Walt
May 10, 2013, 4:46:55 PM5/10/13
to
On May 10, 8:47 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/9/2013 10:54 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
> > How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
> > Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination
> > because I support its *conclusions*?
>
> > I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>
> > John F.
>
> Because you are an extreme rightwinger who hates Liberals like President
> Obama and Hillary Clinton.
> So, how's your Tea Party going. How many seats are you trying to lose in
> the next election?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/9/2013 10:54 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
> > How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
> > Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination
> > because I support its *conclusions*?
>
> > I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>
> > John F.
>
> Because you are an extreme rightwinger who hates Liberals like President
> Obama and Hillary Clinton.
> So, how's your Tea Party going. How many seats are you trying to lose in
> the next election?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
In the Navy sailors are taught that they are responsible for events that
happen on their watch.
John Kennedy lived by that code..... If it happened on his watch....He
took the responsibility for it.
Basically that's why he was murdered..... Publicly he accepted the blame
for the BOP fiasco ( though he quietly fired those who actually were at
the helms of the various operations during BOP.) The Cuban exiles heard
him publicly accept the blame for the fiasco, and vowed revenge.........
Bill Clarke
May 10, 2013, 11:09:08 PM5/10/13
to
In article <518c841b$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
S. of S. allowing 4 Americans to die. To die unnecessarily I might add.
As far as I know the only people punished for this disgusting event are
the Generals that moved to save these men. Disgusting to the max.
I suppose since Obama and Clinton are left wing nuts you give them a pass
on this despicable event.
Bill Clarke
>
>On 5/9/2013 10:54 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>> How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
>> Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination
>> because I support its *conclusions*?
>>
>> I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>>
>> John F.
>>
>
>Because you are an extreme rightwinger who hates Liberals like President
>Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Benghazi has nothing to do with hate. It has to do with the CIC and the
>On 5/9/2013 10:54 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>> How is it I can be so critical of the current administration and it's
>> Benghazi debacle and yet I'm a "liar" about the JFK assassination
>> because I support its *conclusions*?
>>
>> I think Benghazi is a travesty.........I think LHO killed JFK
>>
>> John F.
>>
>
>Because you are an extreme rightwinger who hates Liberals like President
>Obama and Hillary Clinton.
S. of S. allowing 4 Americans to die. To die unnecessarily I might add.
As far as I know the only people punished for this disgusting event are
the Generals that moved to save these men. Disgusting to the max.
I suppose since Obama and Clinton are left wing nuts you give them a pass
on this despicable event.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
May 10, 2013, 11:11:59 PM5/10/13
to
President's announcement from the Rose Garden. Because I am a loyal
American I listened carefully to what President Obama said. He clearly
called it a terrorist attack. Maybe you don't know what that means. Quote
for me what you think President Obama said about the video. Did the mob
kill the maker of the video? Pretend that you have never before see a mob
riot over an insulting video or book.
>
>
>
>
> The demonstration was not a
>> terrorist attack. However you can claim that it was a diversionary trick
>> to prepare for the terrorist attack. That's ok with me. The
>> demonstrators were many ordinary civilians protesting in one place. The
>> Commandos were a small squad attacking in another place.
>
> You're an idiot....
come from his Tea Party buddies.
>>
>>> Clearly President Obama's Whitehouse had a story cooked up and ready to be
>>> handed out to the gullible public .
>>
>> Wrong. Like everyone else they were caught off guard.
>
>
> BULLSHIT!!..... THEY KNEW THE "ATTACK" WAS COMMING AND ANTICIPATED
> THE MUSLIMS GAINING ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.
>
> It's patently clear that this was just another harebrained scheme created
can't prove.
> by Obama's team that went off the tracks, just like operation "Fast and
> Furious". There was "something" in our embassy that Obama wanted the
looked like a good idea on paper.
> "angry mob" to get their hands on. The Obama team may not have
They were sent to kill specific people.
> anticipated that things would go awry, and Americans would be killed in
> their scheme, just as they never anticipated that an American would be
terrorists.
Anthony Marsh
May 10, 2013, 11:12:55 PM5/10/13
to
On 5/10/2013 4:44 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> Firstly Marsh......I am not "an extreme right-winger."
>
> I don't care for Obama because his administration is inept. "Billary"
> (the buck stops here Clinton) is INDEED responsible for the Benghazi
> mess as she herself said.
>
No she didn't and you can't quote her saying that.
> Firstly Marsh......I am not "an extreme right-winger."
>
> I don't care for Obama because his administration is inept. "Billary"
> (the buck stops here Clinton) is INDEED responsible for the Benghazi
> mess as she herself said.
>
> The FACT is Americans were killed in that attack and NOTHING has been
> done (or was) done about it.
>
> Not 1 person mentioned as a suspect, not 1 arrest, NOTHING.
>
before the attack who the attackers were? Why the cover-up?
> While the FBI, or should I say the Keystone Cops run around like its a
> Chinese Fire Drill, Ms. Clintoon asks, "What does it matter?"
>
> Well, I for 1 say it matters!
>
> Listen and comprehend how the "spin" has gone. Statements like the
> military "couldn't have gotten there in time." are meaningless crud.
>
> The FACT is they *couldn't* have gotten there in time, because they
> never even tried. There was NO WAY at the time to KNOW when it was *too
> late* to do anything.
>
> No extra vigilance on the anniversary of 9/11??
>
> Complete and utter BS.
>
> I call for a special prosecutor, just as we removed the malignant boil
> that was Richard Nixon.
>
While Black.
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