How Many Idiots Does It Take To Frame A Patsy Named Oswald?

[David Von Pein]

A "FORUM REWIND" (from early 2007).......

---------------------------------------

CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Is there anybody who can't see that
the dead Oswald was being framed?

DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Those plotters who supposedly framed Lee
Harvey Oswald evidently weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed
-- based on the sheer number of idiotic errors they made throughout
the process of setting up their lone patsy.

Below are a few scattered examples, which should make everyone ask:
COULD THESE PATSY-FRAMERS HAVE REALLY BEEN THIS STUPID?!......

1.) Using an "Oswald Imposter" in Mexico City who looks nothing like
"Patsy" Lee Harvey Oswald.

2.) Shooting JFK with two or three (or more?) guns when the whole nine
yards must (somehow) fall back into only Patsy Oswald's lap & nest &
gun.

3.) Planting the wrong number of shells in the SN (two; per some
CTers).

4.) Planting the wrong type of rifle in the TSBD (Mauser).

5.) Planting the wrong paper bag in the SN (too long; no oil stains).

6.) Planting the wrong type of shells at the Tippit murder site (from
an automatic)....or, as an alternative to this, I guess CTers would
have us believe that the "real killers" of Tippit used an "automatic",
but couldn't care less that Oswald's gun was a revolver.

7.) Using two people to kill Tippit (per some theories), even though
the plotters must somehow frame ONLY Patsy Oswald for this second
11/22 murder too.

8.) Just letting Patsy Oswald roam around at his leisure at 12:30 PM
during the JFK shooting (per Oliver Stone's comedy of errors).

9.) Allowing Patsy Oswald to waltz outside the TSBD at 12:30 PM to be
PHOTOGRAPHED by Jim Altgens in the doorway (per still another CT
version of events).

10.) Going to the trouble of faking additional Backyard Photos of LHO,
even though one LEGIT photo already exists. This way, the bumbling
Barney Fife-like Patsy-Framers have lots of extra chances of being
exposed, via the needless additional faked photos that might be
revealed as frauds in the future.

11.) Faking the Zapruder Film as part of the "Let's Frame Oswald" plot
-- but LEAVING IN the "rear head snap", which is a "snap" that almost
all CTers think is one of THE MAIN REASONS they should believe in a
conspiracy in the first place....a conspiracy that these Kindergarten-
educated Patsy-Framers are trying to cover up and eradicate by faking
the film. Yeah, it's a MUCH better idea to fake stuff in the film
having to do with the shoes and socks of the WITNESSES IN THE FILM'S
BACKGROUND, instead of faking anything to do with John F. Kennedy's
wounds. Right?

12.) Planting Bullet CE399 in Parkland Hospital prior to 2:00 PM (CST)
on 11/22/63, at a time which could prove deadly to the "Let's Frame
Oswald" plot, since John Connally was still in surgery at the time of
this "planting", and the Dumb-&-Dumber plotters couldn't possibly have
any idea where ALL of the bullets were located at this point in time
(and, per most kooks, there surely must be GOBS of different bullets
to account for by way of this idiotic multi shooter, one-patsy
assassination scheme).

12A.) Alternate to #12 -- Planting the WRONG bullet in Parkland
Hospital (a bullet that cannot possibly be linked to Patsy Oswald's
MC/
C2766 weapon). This way, the plotters can add a little more "Maybe
We'll Get Caught By Being This Stupid!" excitement to their Patsy-
Frame-Up plan. Not to mention adding a little more needless legwork
for various other conspirators, who now have to undo this major gaffe
on the part of the bullet-planter by having to
"switch"/"substitute"/"shuffle" the bullets after the non-C2766
missile had been planted.

13.) Planting a wallet on 10th Street just after somebody other than
the Patsy kills Police Officer J.D. Tippit (maybe even TWO non-Oswald
killers remember!)....even though the plotters surely HAVE to know
that this wallet will be found out to be a "fake" (i.e., not Lee
Harvey Oswald's).

Footnote --- It's funny, though, that the plotters couldn't manage to
steal the "real" Oswald wallet and plant that real one on 10th Street.
These conspirators could seemingly steal everything else this Patsy
had (sans any detection by the owner of said articles)....guns,
bullets, camera, you name it....but I guess the wallet was just too
hard to come by.

But, then again, in many instances, it apparently didn't matter if the
boob Patsy-Framers had the REAL Oswald stuff or not -- they were gonna
screw it all up anyway by planting the WRONG stuff (rifle, shells,
stretcher bullet, wallet, jacket).

I wonder how much this clan of idiots got paid for messing up all this
stuff every step of the way? However much it was, it was way yonder
too much.

David Von Pein
January 2007

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/113af1bd6b59e30d/3161174fc8f9c25f?#3161174fc8f9c25f

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/24/2012 1:10 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> A "FORUM REWIND" (from early 2007).......
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
> CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Is there anybody who can't see that
> the dead Oswald was being framed?
>
> DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Those plotters who supposedly framed Lee
> Harvey Oswald evidently weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed
> -- based on the sheer number of idiotic errors they made throughout
> the process of setting up their lone patsy.
>

Just like Watergate.

> Below are a few scattered examples, which should make everyone ask:
> COULD THESE PATSY-FRAMERS HAVE REALLY BEEN THIS STUPID?!......
>
> 1.) Using an "Oswald Imposter" in Mexico City who looks nothing like
> "Patsy" Lee Harvey Oswald.
>

False. The imposter was over the phone or bugged in the room. Not the
guy in the photo. That was the stupidity of MEXI station guessing this
might be the Oswald who went to the embassy.
This guy was unrelated and was never sent to impersonate Oswald.
Got any straw men you want to dump before Halloween?

> 2.) Shooting JFK with two or three (or more?) guns when the whole nine
> yards must (somehow) fall back into only Patsy Oswald's lap & nest &
> gun.
>

The intent was not to fire from different locations. The guy on the
grassy knoll had to take the insurance shot when Oswald's rifle jammed
and there was no shot for 5 seconds.

> 3.) Planting the wrong number of shells in the SN (two; per some
> CTers).
>

A couple of kooks does not constitute a leading theory.

> 4.) Planting the wrong type of rifle in the TSBD (Mauser).
>

No one said the plan was to plan a Mauser. We know that was an honest
mistake.

> 5.) Planting the wrong paper bag in the SN (too long; no oil stains).
>

Don't matter if there was no paper bag there in the first place.

> 6.) Planting the wrong type of shells at the Tippit murder site (from
> an automatic)....or, as an alternative to this, I guess CTers would
> have us believe that the "real killers" of Tippit used an "automatic",
> but couldn't care less that Oswald's gun was a revolver.
>

Again, just like Weitzman, a cop guessed and made an honest mistake.

> 7.) Using two people to kill Tippit (per some theories), even though
> the plotters must somehow frame ONLY Patsy Oswald for this second
> 11/22 murder too.
>

Aren't you ever going to run out of straw?

> 8.) Just letting Patsy Oswald roam around at his leisure at 12:30 PM
> during the JFK shooting (per Oliver Stone's comedy of errors).
>

Or tell him to wait for a phone call.

> 9.) Allowing Patsy Oswald to waltz outside the TSBD at 12:30 PM to be
> PHOTOGRAPHED by Jim Altgens in the doorway (per still another CT
> version of events).
>

Silly. How about allowing Oswald to get out alive?
Remember Ralph Salerno's idea that the assassin would be killed
immediately to prevent him from spilling the beans.

> 10.) Going to the trouble of faking additional Backyard Photos of LHO,
> even though one LEGIT photo already exists. This way, the bumbling
> Barney Fife-like Patsy-Framers have lots of extra chances of being
> exposed, via the needless additional faked photos that might be
> revealed as frauds in the future.
>

The idea of addition photos to frame Oswald is to show him with
Communist literature, just as Nixon after Wallace was shot tried to
plant Communist literature in Bremer's apartment.

> 11.) Faking the Zapruder Film as part of the "Let's Frame Oswald" plot
> -- but LEAVING IN the "rear head snap", which is a "snap" that almost
> all CTers think is one of THE MAIN REASONS they should believe in a
> conspiracy in the first place....a conspiracy that these Kindergarten-
> educated Patsy-Framers are trying to cover up and eradicate by faking
> the film. Yeah, it's a MUCH better idea to fake stuff in the film
> having to do with the shoes and socks of the WITNESSES IN THE FILM'S
> BACKGROUND, instead of faking anything to do with John F. Kennedy's
> wounds. Right?
>

Kooks could even claim that the backward snap was added to fool
conspiracy believers into thinking that the shot came from the front.
They could also claim that frames were snipped out to hide the fact that
the limo had sped up then and that caused JFK's head and body to fly
backwards.

> 12.) Planting Bullet CE399 in Parkland Hospital prior to 2:00 PM (CST)
> on 11/22/63, at a time which could prove deadly to the "Let's Frame
> Oswald" plot, since John Connally was still in surgery at the time of
> this "planting", and the Dumb-&-Dumber plotters couldn't possibly have

The idea of planting the bullet was that it would be found on the
PRESIDENT's gurney. Not specifically Connally's. And maybe it fell out
of his back during heart massage as Humes said.

> any idea where ALL of the bullets were located at this point in time
> (and, per most kooks, there surely must be GOBS of different bullets
> to account for by way of this idiotic multi shooter, one-patsy
> assassination scheme).
>

Doesn't matter. They could add bullets or make bullets disappear as
needed. Look at how they ignored Tague and never explained the mark on
the curb. No WC defender has ever explained it.

> 12A.) Alternate to #12 -- Planting the WRONG bullet in Parkland
> Hospital (a bullet that cannot possibly be linked to Patsy Oswald's
> MC/
> C2766 weapon). This way, the plotters can add a little more "Maybe
> We'll Get Caught By Being This Stupid!" excitement to their Patsy-

Oh, you mean like McCord putting the tape on the door the wrong way to
ensure that the Plumbers would get caught in the Watergate?

> Frame-Up plan. Not to mention adding a little more needless legwork
> for various other conspirators, who now have to undo this major gaffe
> on the part of the bullet-planter by having to
> "switch"/"substitute"/"shuffle" the bullets after the non-C2766
> missile had been planted.
>

Maybe the government hacks would do that for them to keep the public
from learning that it was a conspiracy, which would have sparked WWIII.

> 13.) Planting a wallet on 10th Street just after somebody other than
> the Patsy kills Police Officer J.D. Tippit (maybe even TWO non-Oswald
> killers remember!)....even though the plotters surely HAVE to know
> that this wallet will be found out to be a "fake" (i.e., not Lee
> Harvey Oswald's).
>

Who said the wallet was a fake? Which wallet? Show me the wallet.
Maybe a wallet was planted to frame A.J. Hidell, a Cuban DGI agent.

> Footnote --- It's funny, though, that the plotters couldn't manage to
> steal the "real" Oswald wallet and plant that real one on 10th Street.
> These conspirators could seemingly steal everything else this Patsy
> had (sans any detection by the owner of said articles)....guns,
> bullets, camera, you name it....but I guess the wallet was just too
> hard to come by.
>

Maybe because he had the wallet in his pocket and they didn't think to
have a pickpocket on their team. Better yet a professional pickpocket
would pretend to be a reporter and bump into Oswald at the entrance of
the TSBD and plant incriminating evidence on him.

> But, then again, in many instances, it apparently didn't matter if the
> boob Patsy-Framers had the REAL Oswald stuff or not -- they were gonna
> screw it all up anyway by planting the WRONG stuff (rifle, shells,
> stretcher bullet, wallet, jacket).
>

Many assassination attempts have their share of foulups.

> I wonder how much this clan of idiots got paid for messing up all this
> stuff every step of the way? However much it was, it was way yonder
> too much.
>

You get what you pay for. Remember the Bunglers at Watergate?

[David Von Pein]

Gee, guess who's right there ready to respond to EVERY post at a mioment's
notice? -- Lookie, it's W. Anthony Marsh of Cambridge! What a surprise!!
....

>>> "Got any straw men you want to dump before Halloween?" <<<

No straw, Tony. I've merely stated in my above 2007 post the things that
some conspiracy theorists have, indeed, advocated over the years. I
certainly hope you don't think my list of bumbling idiocy consist of
things that *I* myself concocted. (El-Oh-El.)

Every single item on my list of "stupid" things above has been purported
as being the absolute TRUTH regarding this case by some conspiracists --
from TWO murderers on 10th Street to kill Tippit....to an AUTOMATIC being
used to murder Tippit (even though the patsy owned a revolver)....to
planting a Mauser in the TSBD (even though the proverbial patsy owned a
Carcano)....to the faking of some of the Backyard Photos (even though, per
some CT kooks, one REAL and legitimate BY photo already existed at the
time of the superfluous fakery of the others)....and on and on.

IOW -- Why bother believing the actual evidence in a murder case, when you
can just as easily invent a bunch of crap out of thin air?

A nifty way to solve a case, huh Anthony? Just ask any Internet CTer.
They'll provide at least a dozen more "idiotic" items that aren't on my
list above. Guaranteed.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/24/2012 10:23 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> Gee, guess who's right there ready to respond to EVERY post at a mioment's
> notice? -- Lookie, it's W. Anthony Marsh of Cambridge! What a surprise!!
> ....
>
>
>>>> "Got any straw men you want to dump before Halloween?" <<<
>
> No straw, Tony. I've merely stated in my above 2007 post the things that
> some conspiracy theorists have, indeed, advocated over the years. I
> certainly hope you don't think my list of bumbling idiocy consist of
> things that *I* myself concocted. (El-Oh-El.)
>

I'm sure that you could even find one kook who says there were no shots
at all or that Bigfoot was in Dealey Plaza. That is still a straw man
argument. Intentionally choosing with bias the extreme outlier and
representing that to be a typical belief.

> Every single item on my list of "stupid" things above has been purported
> as being the absolute TRUTH regarding this case by some conspiracists --
> from TWO murderers on 10th Street to kill Tippit....to an AUTOMATIC being
> used to murder Tippit (even though the patsy owned a revolver)....to
> planting a Mauser in the TSBD (even though the proverbial patsy owned a

I notice that you never name and quote any particular conspiracy kook
who said those things.

> Carcano)....to the faking of some of the Backyard Photos (even though, per
> some CT kooks, one REAL and legitimate BY photo already existed at the
> time of the superfluous fakery of the others)....and on and on.
>
> IOW -- Why bother believing the actual evidence in a murder case, when you
> can just as easily invent a bunch of crap out of thin air?
>

Some people do, including WC defenders.

> A nifty way to solve a case, huh Anthony? Just ask any Internet CTer.
> They'll provide at least a dozen more "idiotic" items that aren't on my
> list above. Guaranteed.
>

I have listed far more bizarre theories that some conspiracy kooks have
promoted.
No one takes them seriously and no one bothers to argue strenuously
against them.

[Research]

"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9d98c083-9993-4b50...@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

>
> A "FORUM REWIND" (from early 2007).......
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
> CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Is there anybody who can't see that
> the dead Oswald was being framed?

HA, HA, HA. Berry bunny!!! Yous guys are hilarious. You LNers just can't
stand the fact that you are in the minority.

>
> DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Those plotters who supposedly framed Lee
> Harvey Oswald evidently weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed
> -- based on the sheer number of idiotic errors they made throughout
> the process of setting up their lone patsy.
>
> Below are a few scattered examples, which should make everyone ask:
> COULD THESE PATSY-FRAMERS HAVE REALLY BEEN THIS STUPID?!......
>
> 1.) Using an "Oswald Imposter" in Mexico City who looks nothing like
> "Patsy" Lee Harvey Oswald.

Who's picture did the CIA come up with?

>
> 2.) Shooting JFK with two or three (or more?) guns when the whole nine
> yards must (somehow) fall back into only Patsy Oswald's lap & nest &
> gun.
>

Some body must have planted the dictabelt in the police evidence? WE call
them keystone cops. How bout you?

> 3.) Planting the wrong number of shells in the SN (two; per some
> CTers).

Should have been 4.

>
> 4.) Planting the wrong type of rifle in the TSBD (Mauser).

These dummy framers forgot to remove the scope off the MC that none of the
LNer eye witnesses saw?

>
> 5.) Planting the wrong paper bag in the SN (too long; no oil stains).

If the rifle was as dirty and rusty as the LNers have claimed there
wounldn't be an oil to stain. But we do find oil on the paper bag.

>
> 6.) Planting the wrong type of shells at the Tippit murder site (from
> an automatic)....or, as an alternative to this, I guess CTers would
> have us believe that the "real killers" of Tippit used an "automatic",
> but couldn't care less that Oswald's gun was a revolver.
>

I believe it was the LNer witnesses who claimed the shooter used an
automatic.

> 7.) Using two people to kill Tippit (per some theories), even though
> the plotters must somehow frame ONLY Patsy Oswald for this second
> 11/22 murder too.

It was the witnesses at the scene who claimed there was two killwers.

>
> 8.) Just letting Patsy Oswald roam around at his leisure at 12:30 PM
> during the JFK shooting (per Oliver Stone's comedy of errors).
>
> 9.) Allowing Patsy Oswald to waltz outside the TSBD at 12:30 PM to be
> PHOTOGRAPHED by Jim Altgens in the doorway (per still another CT
> version of events).
>
> 10.) Going to the trouble of faking additional Backyard Photos of LHO,
> even though one LEGIT photo already exists. This way, the bumbling
> Barney Fife-like Patsy-Framers have lots of extra chances of being
> exposed, via the needless additional faked photos that might be
> revealed as frauds in the future.
>
> 11.) Faking the Zapruder Film as part of the "Let's Frame Oswald" plot
> -- but LEAVING IN the "rear head snap", which is a "snap" that almost
> all CTers think is one of THE MAIN REASONS they should believe in a
> conspiracy in the first place....a conspiracy that these Kindergarten-
> educated Patsy-Framers are trying to cover up and eradicate by faking
> the film. Yeah, it's a MUCH better idea to fake stuff in the film
> having to do with the shoes and socks of the WITNESSES IN THE FILM'S
> BACKGROUND, instead of faking anything to do with John F. Kennedy's
> wounds. Right?

Who was it who switched Z314 and 315?

>
> 12.) Planting Bullet CE399 in Parkland Hospital prior to 2:00 PM (CST)
> on 11/22/63, at a time which could prove deadly to the "Let's Frame
> Oswald" plot, since John Connally was still in surgery at the time of
> this "planting", and the Dumb-&-Dumber plotters couldn't possibly have
> any idea where ALL of the bullets were located at this point in time
> (and, per most kooks, there surely must be GOBS of different bullets
> to account for by way of this idiotic multi shooter, one-patsy
> assassination scheme).

Eye witnesses at the scene stated it was an unrelated streacher.

>
> 12A.) Alternate to #12 -- Planting the WRONG bullet in Parkland
> Hospital (a bullet that cannot possibly be linked to Patsy Oswald's
> MC/
> C2766 weapon). This way, the plotters can add a little more "Maybe
> We'll Get Caught By Being This Stupid!" excitement to their Patsy-
> Frame-Up plan. Not to mention adding a little more needless legwork
> for various other conspirators, who now have to undo this major gaffe
> on the part of the bullet-planter by having to
> "switch"/"substitute"/"shuffle" the bullets after the non-C2766
> missile had been planted.
>
> 13.) Planting a wallet on 10th Street just after somebody other than
> the Patsy kills Police Officer J.D. Tippit (maybe even TWO non-Oswald
> killers remember!)....even though the plotters surely HAVE to know
> that this wallet will be found out to be a "fake" (i.e., not Lee
> Harvey Oswald's).

It was det. Hill who stated he took the wallet from Oswald. The wallet WAS
NOT FOUND ON 10th St.

>
> Footnote --- It's funny, though, that the plotters couldn't manage to
> steal the "real" Oswald wallet and plant that real one on 10th Street.
> These conspirators could seemingly steal everything else this Patsy
> had (sans any detection by the owner of said articles)....guns,
> bullets, camera, you name it....but I guess the wallet was just too
> hard to come by.

Again you LNers make up what you can't prove.

>
> But, then again, in many instances, it apparently didn't matter if the
> boob Patsy-Framers had the REAL Oswald stuff or not -- they were gonna
> screw it all up anyway by planting the WRONG stuff (rifle, shells,
> stretcher bullet, wallet, jacket).

The Davis sisters and Mary Markham who were right there at the time, all
said Oswald had on a dark blue coat.

>
> I wonder how much this clan of idiots got paid for messing up all this
> stuff every step of the way? However much it was, it was way yonder
> too much.

Well if these clan of idiots did pay, then they got ripped off. Berry buuny
Dave you got it ALL WRONG as usuall. Make up some more. It's really funny!!