Lee Bowers testimony
Maggsy
driver seemed to have a mike or something. He thought they were the
police. Is there any record of the police being in that area at the time?
yeuhd
The parking lot to the west of the TSBD was used by the county
sheriff's office, so it could have been someone from the sheriff's
office.
Thalia
You would think that the WC would have interviewed people from the
Sheriff's office to determine who was in the parking lot in a vehicle
before the assassination. Really not that difficult.
claviger
This question demonstrates how Bowers could observe the entire area behind
the stockade fence and how good his eyesight was. He saw no shooter behind
the fence and no one racing across the parking lot after the shooting. If
a shot came from in front of the Limousine it wasn't fired from behind the
fence on the Grassy Knoll.
yeuhd
Since the car did nothing suspicious, and left before the motorcade
arrived, what would be the point? It was a parking lot, that's what
happens in parking lots all day long — cars come in, drive around
looking for a space, and leave when they can't find one. By all accounts
the lot was full at the time.
Bud
Why? Because someone saw a car in a parking lot?
> Really not that difficult.
Probably impossible to determine where all their men were at any
particular time. And if they do find that one of their people were
there, so what? And if they don`t find that one of their people was
not there, so what?
tomnln
"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:37db08d5-a2fa-415e...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Bowers DID see a flash of light/puff of smoke behind the fence.
Bowers DID see 3 men run down the tracks & jump into a freight train coal
car.
Bowers DID stop the train & call Police.
The Police DID take several people OFF of that train under arrest.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
yeuhd
> Bowers DID see a flash of light/puff of smoke behind the fence.
Quote from the "official record" where Bowers said he saw a flash of
light or puff of smoke BEHIND THE FENCE. Repeat: the "official
record".
> Bowers DID stop the train & call Police.
>
> The Police DID take several people OFF of that train under arrest.
>
> SEE>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
You can see in the photos of the three tramps being led across Dealey
Plaza that the sun is much lower and their shadows are long. And that
only about a dozen people remain in front of the entrance to the TSBD,
versus a couple hundred who were there immediately after the
assassination. The tramps were arrested *hours* after the
assassination:
tomnln
Here Ya go my Friend>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
Thanks fer askin ! ! !
"yeuhd" <needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba7722c6-2ce4-48b7...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
> On Nov 7, 10:54 pm, "tomnln"<tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Bowers DID see a flash of light/puff of smoke behind the fence.
>
> Quote from the "official record" where Bowers said he saw a flash of
> light or puff of smoke BEHIND THE FENCE. Repeat: the "official
> record".
>
>
>>
>> The Police DID take several people OFF of that train under arrest.
>>
>> SEE>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
>
> You can see in the photos of the three tramps being led across Dealey
> Plaza that the sun is much lower and their shadows are long. And that
> only about a dozen people remain in front of the entrance to the TSBD,
> versus a couple hundred who were there immediately after the
> assassination. The tramps were arrested *hours* after the
> assassination:
>
> http://www.garyrevel.com/News/JFK/tramps.PNG
>
> http://www.whale.to/b/3tramps.jpg
>
I don't see where your excellent reply addresses any of the points made
by the original poster. I don't think he said "immediately."
What WC defenders used to deny was that the three tramps were even
arrested. It came out many years later that the DPD had misplaced the
original arrest records (q.v.) in some old filing cabinet. They were not
arrested for the assassination. They were arrested for vagrancy.
yeuhd
> yeuhd thinks a train stops on a dime with eight cents change.
>
> Here Ya go my Friend>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
>
> Thanks fer askin ! ! !
Once again, your web site does not contain what you claim it does. You
still have not responded to my request to quote from the "official record"
where Bowers said he saw a flash of light or puff of smoke BEHIND THE
FENCE.
Nor have you explained how as the three tramps were being arrested and led
across Dealey Plaza, only about a dozen people were in front of the TSBD.
What time of day would that be?
tomnln
By Golly, That would have been a GREAT question to ask the WC.
WHEN did you ask Gerry Ford that Question yeuhd???
Did you ask that question to Arlen Specter????
tomnln
yeuhd
> By Golly, That would have been a GREAT question to ask the WC.
You're still stalling, still avoiding. Once again: quote from the
"official record" where Lee Bowers said he saw a flash of light or
puff of smoke BEHIND THE FENCE, as you claimed above that he did.
yeuhd
> "yeuhd" <needleswax...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > Once again, your web site does not contain what you claim it does. You
> > still have not responded to my request to quote from the "official record"
> > where Bowers said he saw a flash of light or puff of smoke BEHIND THE
> > FENCE.
>
> Here Ya go my Friend>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>
> SEE>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
>
> Thanks fer askin ! ! !
Once again, your website does not contain what you claim it does. Nowhere
in Lee Bowers' testimony that you reprinted does he talk about a "flash of
light" or a "puff of smoke". So, your own website just proved yourself
wrong.
Nor do you explain how it is that in the photo of the three tramps under
arrest and being led across Dealey Plaza, there are only about a dozen
people in front of the TSBD, and the shadows are long as in late
afternoon. Nowhere do you explain that anomaly. What time of day would
that be when they were arrested?
You keep linking to web pages that do not answer either of those
questions.
Peekaboo, we see you.
claviger
Here is Lee Bowers sworn testimony April 2, 1964
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowers.htm
Bowers had plenty of time to report to the police anything that might be
relevant to the investigation, such as a sniper with a rifle or any
persons of interest. He saw nothing to indicate anyone behind the stockade
fence discharged a weapon or ran away. What he did see is police converge
on the area immediately soon followed by crowds of spectators. He saw no
one fleeing toward the railroad cars. Transients were later found in a
police search of the parked railroad cars. Bower's testimony eliminates
the back of stockade fence as a possible location for a sniper firing on
the motorcade.
tomnln
I keep posting your answer & You keep SNIPPING it ! ! !
yeuhd
> "yeuhd" <needleswax...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Nowhere in the testimony that you reprinted does Lee Bowers say
anything about a flash or light or a puff of smoke. N-O-W-H-E-R-E. You
keep pretending it does, but it's just not there. Your own web site
proves you wrong.
And no, I am not snipping anything. Look at my last post above, and
your web link is right there:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/740d9b2faedc09fc
You know, the web link to your own web site that proves that Lee
Bowers said no such thing in his testimony.
tomnln
Do you agree that the tramp photos were taken before sundown on 11/22/63?
How long do you think it takes to search a freight train?
ps;
E Howard Hunt's son said the older tramp with the hat on is his Father !!!
Here Ya go my Friend>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
Thanks fer askin ! ! !
"yeuhd" <needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74c7cbbc-0a9c-4e61...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
John McAdams
>
>Do you agree that the tramp photos were taken before sundown on 11/22/63?
>
>How long do you think it takes to search a freight train?
>
>ps;
>
>E Howard Hunt's son said the older tramp with the hat on is his Father !!!
>
>Here Ya go my Friend>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>
>SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
>
> Thanks fer askin ! ! !
>
I don't see a citation for Hunt saying one of the tramps is his
father.
If such exists, I would *love* to know about it. :-)
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
tomnln
Interview - Lee H. Bowers, Jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3neVe8Nlw
LEE BOWERS INTERVIEW Below Part 1of 2
http://www.veoh.com/videos/e97495KAZA2acj
As pointed out Earlier.
You have Less vision than Helen Keller.
tomnln
"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3dc460b-7d96-4773...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
claviger
> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>
> Interview - Lee H. Bowers, Jr.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3neVe8Nlw
>
> LEE BOWERS INTERVIEW Below Part 1of 2
>
> http://www.veoh.com/videos/e97495KAZA2acj
>
> As pointed out Earlier.
>
> You have Less vision than Helen Keller.
It's a good thing Lee Bowers had excellent vision to see that no one
was behind the stockade fence at any time during the motorcade. Bowers
remains consistent in his testimony until his meeting with Mark Lane.
In that interview he moves the two men he could see from right to
left, no doubt at the urging of the interviewer. He first placed these
two men past the end of the fence to the right, standing near the
entrance to the underpass. In his interview with Lane he now relocates
them to the left, standing near the pergola. He also adds "a flash of
light or smoke" to the "commotion" happening around these two men.
Bowers did see a police officer approach one of these men who remained
in place. The other man he couldn't see, which means he didn't run
behind the stockade fence. Where he does remain consistent is still no
one behind the fence, no people handing off a rifle to hide in a
railroad mechanical box (Hoffman), no man with a rifle arguing with a
man about a camera (Arnold), and no one running across the parking lot
toward the railroad cars. Bowers had an excellent overview of the
entire area behind the stockade fence and at no time saw anyone with a
rifle firing at the President. The three loud sounds he heard came
from either the TSBD or the triple underpass, not the pergola or the
stockade fence.
tomnln
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:4af8d8c1.2287178140@news.supernews.com...
> On 9 Nov 2009 22:03:32 -0500, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Do you agree that the tramp photos were taken before sundown on 11/22/63?
>>
>>How long do you think it takes to search a freight train?
>>
>>ps;
>>
>>E Howard Hunt's son said the older tramp with the hat on is his Father !!!
>>
>>Here Ya go my Friend>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>>
>>SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
>>
>> Thanks fer askin ! ! !
>>
>
> I don't see a citation for Hunt saying one of the tramps is his
> father.
>
> If such exists, I would *love* to know about it. :-)
>
> .John
---------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE Ya go John;
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13893143/the_last_confessions_of_e_howard_hunt/5
Eight pages from St. John hunt.
What You're looking for is on page 5.
Thanks fer askin.
Are you sure you should be "Teaching" a University Course on this subject
???
ps;
Yer Welcome!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeuhd
> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>
> Interview - Lee H. Bowers, Jr.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3neVe8Nlw
>
> LEE BOWERS INTERVIEW Below Part 1of 2
>
> http://www.veoh.com/videos/e97495KAZA2acj
>
Oh, so after repeatedly claiming it was in Bowers' WC testimony, and
linking again and again to his WC testimony, you now admit it was not
there.
So, you accept Bowers' filmed interview with Mark Lane as an "official
record"? Great, because in the complete, unredacted filmed interview,
Bowers made it clear that the two men he saw were standing EAST of the
stockade fence, in the area between the pergola and the stockade fence,
and that NO ONE was standing behind the stockade fence ("there was no one
there who could have had anything to do with either — as accomplice or
anything else — because there was no one there at the moment that the
shots were fired"). Not surprisingly, Make Lane did not use those portions
of the interview.
The transcript of the complete filmed interview of Lee Bowers, with marks
telling what portions to excise, is available in the papers of "Rush to
Judgment" director Emile de Antonio at the Wisconsin Historical Society
Archives in Madison, Wisconsin (yes, I've seen it). The complete film
footage of the Bowers interview is available at the Wisconsin Center for
Film and Theater Research, in the same building.
One error many people make when reading the WC testimony of Lee Bowers is
not paying attention to what question he was asked. He was asked who was
in the area between ELM STREET and his tower, not who was between the
stockade fence and his tower. Bowers replied that other than the men on
the triple overpass, the only people in the area were one or two uniformed
parking lot attendants, and the two men referenced above, who did not
appear to know each other.
A second error is assuming that when Bowers said the two men were standing
"towards the mouth of the underpass" that he meant the west end of the
stockade fence adjacent to the triple underpass. But it becomes apparent
in the complete Lane interview that Bowers considered the whole area west
of the pergola to be "towards the mouth of the underpass", because he
clarifies that the two men who were standing "towards the mouth of the
underpass" were standing between the pergola and the fence.
Third error: Claiming that Bowers said he saw a flash of light or smoke
"behind the fence". His words in the Lane interview were actually "in this
immediate area on the embankment". The only specific area on the knoll
that Bowers had been talking about was between the pergola and the
stockade fence.
Source: Transcript of Mark Lane interview of Lee Bowers, p. 117–124, in
Box 55, Papers of Emilio de Antonio. Call Number: U.S. Mss 117AN.
Wisconsin Historical Society Archives.
yeuhd
> It's a good thing Lee Bowers had excellent vision to see that no one
> was behind the stockade fence at any time during the motorcade. Bowers
> remains consistent in his testimony until his meeting with Mark Lane.
> In that interview he moves the two men he could see from right to
> left, no doubt at the urging of the interviewer. He first placed these
> two men past the end of the fence to the right, standing near the
> entrance to the underpass.
Bowers never said the two men were past the end of the fence to the right.
What Bowers said in his WC testimony was that the two men were standing
"towards the mouth of the underpass". As it turns out, Bowers considered
the whole area west of the pergola to be towards the mouth of the
underpass, because he clarified in his filmed interview with Mark Lane
that the two men were standing between the pergola and the stockade fence.
Indeed, many people consider the grassy knoll to begin at that point.
John McAdams
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4af8f4d4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> BOTTOM POST;
>
> "John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
> news:4af8d8c1.2287178140@news.supernews.com...
>> On 9 Nov 2009 22:03:32 -0500, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Do you agree that the tramp photos were taken before sundown on 11/22/63?
>>>
>>>How long do you think it takes to search a freight train?
>>>
>>>ps;
>>>
>>>E Howard Hunt's son said the older tramp with the hat on is his Father
>>>!!!
>>>
>>>Here Ya go my Friend>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>>>
>>>SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
>>>
>>> Thanks fer askin ! ! !
>>>
>>
>> I don't see a citation for Hunt saying one of the tramps is his
>> father.
>>
>> If such exists, I would *love* to know about it. :-)
>>
>> .John
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> HERE Ya go John;
>
> http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13893143/the_last_confessions_of_e_howard_hunt/5
>
> Eight pages from St. John hunt.
>
> What You're looking for is on page 5.
>
> Thanks fer askin.
>
Thank you! Since the tramps have been positively identified, this makes
it clear how unreliable St. John Hunt's testimony is.
> Are you sure you should be "Teaching" a University Course on this subject
> ???
>
Anybody teaching a university course needs to stress the *reliable*
evidence, not people like St. John Hunt.
But it's nice to have a piece of evidence as to how irresponsible he is.
.John
Maggsy
> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>
> Interview - Lee H. Bowers, Jr.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3neVe8Nlw
>
> LEE BOWERS INTERVIEW Below Part 1of 2
>
> http://www.veoh.com/videos/e97495KAZA2acj
>
Is it me or is any one else having problems getting this video to
load?
> As pointed out Earlier.
>
> You have Less vision than Helen Keller.
>
> "claviger" <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e3dc460b-7d96-4773...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Nov 7, 12:14 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 6, 5:31 pm, Maggsy <davidmaggs2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > According to Lee Bowers he saw a ford car drive behind the knoll and the
> > > driver seemed to have a mike or something. He thought they were the
> > > police. Is there any record of the police being in that area at the time?
>
> > This question demonstrates how Bowers could observe the entire area behind
> > the stockade fence and how good his eyesight was. He saw no shooter behind
> > the fence and no one racing across the parking lot after the shooting. If
> > a shot came from in front of the Limousine it wasn't fired from behind the
> > fence on the Grassy Knoll.
>
> Here is Lee Bowers sworn testimony April 2, 1964http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowers.htm
claviger
yeuhd,
Thanks for clearing that up about the two men standing at "the mouth of
the underpass". Several witnesses changed their stories after a visit from
Mark Lane. It's good to know Bowers stood his ground. The flash and smoke
Bowers saw could be a guy lighting a cigarette with a match. The two guys
sound like Hudson and the unknown spectator who were standing on the steps
next to the pergola. The unknown young guy hit the ground when the
shooting started which could be why Bowers lost sight of him. None of them
left the area or ran behind the fence until the police dashed up there.
Anthony Marsh
Forget the son. Concentrated on what E. Howard Hunt said.
Do you admit that it is his voice on the tape?
Do you admit that E. Howard Hunt said that his fellow CIA officers
approached him about assassinating President Kennedy?
Do you admit that he made a deathbed confession?
Anthony Marsh
> On Nov 10, 9:49 am, claviger<historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's a good thing Lee Bowers had excellent vision to see that no one
>> was behind the stockade fence at any time during the motorcade. Bowers
>> remains consistent in his testimony until his meeting with Mark Lane.
>> In that interview he moves the two men he could see from right to
>> left, no doubt at the urging of the interviewer. He first placed these
>> two men past the end of the fence to the right, standing near the
>> entrance to the underpass.
>
> Bowers never said the two men were past the end of the fence to the right.
> What Bowers said in his WC testimony was that the two men were standing
> "towards the mouth of the underpass". As it turns out, Bowers considered
> the whole area west of the pergola to be towards the mouth of the
> underpass, because he clarified in his filmed interview with Mark Lane
> that the two men were standing between the pergola and the stockade fence.
> Indeed, many people consider the grassy knoll to begin at that point.
>
I think that's another good reason to do actual research rather than
rely only on OFFICIAL RECORDS as a certain person here does.
Anthony Marsh
> On Nov 9, 10:16 pm, "tomnln"<tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lee_j_bowers.htm
>>
>> Interview - Lee H. Bowers, Jr.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3neVe8Nlw
>>
>> LEE BOWERS INTERVIEW Below Part 1of 2
>>
>> http://www.veoh.com/videos/e97495KAZA2acj
>>
>
>
> Oh, so after repeatedly claiming it was in Bowers' WC testimony, and
> linking again and again to his WC testimony, you now admit it was not
> there.
>
> So, you accept Bowers' filmed interview with Mark Lane as an "official
> record"? Great, because in the complete, unredacted filmed interview,
> Bowers made it clear that the two men he saw were standing EAST of the
> stockade fence, in the area between the pergola and the stockade fence,
> and that NO ONE was standing behind the stockade fence ("there was no one
> anything else ? because there was no one there at the moment that the
> Box 55, Papers of Emilio de Antonio. Call Number: U.S. Mss 117AN.
> Wisconsin Historical Society Archives.
>
Thanks for that information.
They need to be scanned in and put online. If someone can e-mail them to
me I can put them on my Web site. BTW, I was the only person at a
conference to talk to Mark Lane and ask him to make his materials from the
Hunt trial available to other researchers.
David Von Pein
LEE BOWERS WAS REALLY A PRETTY GOOD "LONE ASSASSIN" WITNESS:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/5134c7856e820d92
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a1679ed2383e9f22
tomnln
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:4af9a4dd$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Your culture find it exceptional for a son to recognize his own
Father?
You asked me for a citation that Saint John Hunt recognized his Father as
one of the tramps on a poster.
I provided it.
The "belated" official I D of the tramps is BOGUS.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
SEE>>> http://www.myfoxdfw.com/subindex/news/fox_4_projects/jfk_video
SEE>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlrMUotUdU&feature=related
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
"yeuhd" <needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:deadbf5e-c778-4617...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
yeuhd
> LEE BOWERS WAS REALLY A PRETTY GOOD "LONE ASSASSIN" WITNESS:http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/5134c7856e820d92http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a1679ed2383e9f22
Vincent Bugliosi's dismissal of Lee Bowers' testimony is at first
puzzling. Then you realize it's a symptom of Bugliosi's computer- phobia
and unfamiliarity with the Internet. Bugliosi is apparently wholly unaware
of the revelations in the unredacted version of Mark Lane's filmed
interview with Bowers. That news has been on the Web for, what, five years
now? But not in Bugliosi's knowledge. I hope by the time Bugliosi gets
around to editing the revised edition of "Reclaiming History", someone
will clue him in.
tomnln
"yeuhd" <needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8006f488-7b4a-4e96...@h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...