Oswald, Mrs. Reid, spare change and a full coke
Peter Fokes
President, Geneva L. Hine stayed behind in her second floor office. Geneva
recounted to the WC how she thought Oswald was a "queer duck". He never
responded to her friendly hellos.
Oswald had the habit of dropping into Miss Hine's office and asking for
change for the*coke* machine. We should not be surprised then that Oswald
was in the lunchroom with a coke in hand on Nov 22, 1963.
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I saw him on the second floor about noontime
**almost every day**. He would come in and ask for change, for a dime or
quarter.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him use any part of the second floor?
Miss HINE. No.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him spend the dime to buy anything with it?
Miss HINE. No, sir; the coke machine isn't in our room and I wouldn't
have seen it.
Mr. BALL. Where is the coke machine?
Miss HINE. Out in the little lunchroom back of our office.
So Miss Hine was most likely the closest person to Oswald when he
sauntered in to the lunchroom to get a pop around 12:30 pm on Nov. 22,
1963. One assumes Oswald did not ask Miss Hine for a dime or quarter on
Nov. 22nd. But Mr. Ball doesn't bother asking.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever speak to Oswald ?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever speak to you?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. He never replied to you?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Would you say he was unfriendly?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I would.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him smile or laugh?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What kind of an expression did he have on his face most of
the time?
Miss HINE. I describe it as being stoic.
That's our Oswald. Stoic.
Geneva, a friendly sort, thought Oswald a tad weird. As a matter of fact,
she asked Shelley about Lee one time:
"Miss HINE. One day I said to Mr. Shelley, "Who is that queer duck you
have working down here..."
A queer stoic duck who never remembered to bring change and kept asking
for dimes and quarters on a daily basis. I guess Miss Hine never gave him
change because if she had and Oswald did not say "Thank You" I'm sure she
would have mentioned it! Who did he get his change from anyway? Miss Hine
and Oswald did have one thing in common. They both stayed in the TSBD
while American royalty was about to glide by in shiny limos. Our diligent
and caring Miss Hine had seen JFK before so she was willing to stay inside
and continue answering the phone while the other girls went out to catch a
peek at the Pres.
Mr. BALL. Did they all go out?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; everyone went out.
Mr. BALL. Was there anyone left in the office part of the building on
that second floor office?
Miss HINE. Only Mr. Williams and myself and he stayed with me because
he was working on his desk until he thought that the motorcade was about
there.
Mr. Otis Williams was still inside too. Of course, Troy West was also in
the TSBD and seemed to be totally unaware the President was even in town!
But Troy was on the first floor doing his usual thing and was surprised
when all sorts of folks in uniform, etc., came in about 12:35 pm. He
didn't even hear the shots! Ms. Hine, up one floor, did hear the shots
though: 3 of them and they sounded "terrific" loud. Otis had slipped away
about 5 minutes before the motorcade. Otis did not testify as far as I can
tell. Anyone know where he stood outside btw?
Ms. Hine switched desks to man the telephone lines.
Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard?
Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines,
then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.
Mr. BALL. You don't have a switchboard?
Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building.
Mr. BALL. Were you alone then at this time?
Miss HINE. Yes.
Now, it's too bad Geneva stayed behind because...well, everyone in the
entire world had the courtesy to refrain from calling the TSBD at 12:30 pm
because the motorcade was coming by!
Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the
phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was
calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our
office.
How thoughtful of folks from New York to LA to stop calling so Miss Hine
could look out the window! Of course, this must be a coincidence because
those potential callers would have no way of knowing exactly when the
President's motocade was going to drive by, right? So she looked out the
window and when asked if she saw the motorcade, she politely replied: Miss
HINE. Yes, sir; going north on Houston Street. I saw it turn left and I
saw the President's car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving
his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn
the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car
coming. Just at the instant I saw the **next** car coming up was when I
heard the shots.
Mr. BALL. How many did you hear?
Miss HINE. Three.
Mr. BALL Could you tell where the shots were coming from?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building.
Mr. BALL. How do you know that?
Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the
explosion coming in.
The building vibrated. Troy West on the first floor must have been a
little hard of hearing though. He didn't hear a thing. Just one floor
down.
Mr. BALL. Did you know they were shots at the time?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were
so terrific.
Ms. Hine wanted to look out another window to see why the folks were
running towards the underpass. So she tried the door of Lyons and
Carnahan. Darn. It was locked. So she moved on to the Southwestern
Publishing Co., and lo and behold another person had not bothered to go
out and watch the President. Indeed this person had locked the door and
could only be seen through a thin curtain.
****Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and
I could hear her but she didn't answer the door.
Mr. BALL. Was the door locked?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That was which company?
Miss HINE. Southwestern Publishing Co.
Mr. BALL. Did you call to her?
Miss HINE. I called and called and shook the door and she didn't
answer me because she was talking on the telephone; I could hear her. They
have a little curtain up and I could see her form through the curtains. I
could see her talking and I knew that's what she was doing and then I
turned and went through the back hall and came through the back door.****
Well, she could at least see *her form*. But the door was locked. Funny.
Why would the door be locked with someone inside? Maybe this "form" was
talking to her boyfriend -:). Well, at least we know the phones were not
dead anymore. Someone (some "form") was talking.
A short while later, the employees filed back in, including Mr. Otis
Williams and Mrs. Reid. Although Miss Hine did NOT see Oswald as he strode
though their office, Mrs. Reid did. And in what must be considered a
change of habit (or maybe he just didn't like Miss Hine) Oswald "mumbled"
something in response to words out of Mrs. Reid's mouth. But he had been
known to talk to someone else in that office anyway ..perhaps unbeknowst
to Geneva:
Mrs. Reid: " another time ....he made a remark to one of the girls back
there and she said, "Well, he sure is calm.", And I said, "What did he say
to you?"
And she says, "I have a baby," and he stopped and I said, "Well, he is
pretty calm just having a new baby," and outside of that I never remember
seeing him other than to come in to get change."
On this occassion, Oswald said something again:
Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in
the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk
several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but
maybe they didn't hit him."
He **mumbled** something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't
pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of
him having any connection with it at all because he was **very calm**. He
had gotten a *coke* and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason
it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that
one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that
he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was
to come and get change [as Geneva has already told us] and he already had
his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I
didn't think anything else.
Now this happened just 2 minutes after the shooting. Belin and Reid had
used a "stopwatch" to time the events and such activity left them "huffing
and puffing" because they "ran". Oswald must have come directly from his
meeting with Truly and Baker in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN. And when in Dallas, we started the stopwatch from the time
that the last shot was fired, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And then you went through your actions, what you saw, your
conversations that you had, and your actions in going back into the
building and up to the point that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how long by the stopwatch it took you?
Mrs. REID. Approximately 2 minutes.
Mr. DULLES. I didn't hear you.
Mrs. REID. Two minutes.
Mr. BELIN. From the time of the last shot the time you and Oswald
crossed?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I believe that is the way we timed it.
Mr. BELIN. When you--you saw me start the stopwatch and you saw me
stop it there, right?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. When you met in the lunchroom--
Mrs. REID. I didn't meet him in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN. Pardon me, when you met in the office, which direction were
you going, looking toward Exhibit 497, as you look on it, which direction
were you going toward the left or right?
Mrs. REID. You mean as I came in the office? I turned in and turned to
my left.
Mr. BELIN. That would be heading in a westerly direction is that
right?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Was the coke full or empty?
Mrs. REID. It was full.
Mr. BELIN. It was full.
Oswald seemed in no rush.
Mrs. REID. ... he was moving at a **very slow pace**, I never did see
him moving fast at any time.
Queer stoic slow moving duck with full coke in hand.
On the threshold of infamy.
Peter F
Bud
Strange that he would be calm after having a loaded weapon pointed
at him shortly before Reid saw him. Perhaps he was still shocked over
his recent successful assassination.
>He
> had gotten a *coke* and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason
> it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that
> one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that
> he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was
> to come and get change [as Geneva has already told us] and he already had
> his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I
> didn't think anything else.
Interesting. It was unusual for the "warehouse boys" to enter the
territory of the office workers without reason (like getting change).
Since Oswald already had his soda, he didn`t need change, so why was he
there?
> Now this happened just 2 minutes after the shooting.
Can three minutes be ruled out?
The full Coke suggests it was recently bought. Perhaps after Baker
turned Oswald loose.
> On the threshold of infamy.
He stepped over that threshold earlier, when he shot Kennedy.
> Peter F
Peter Fokes
I am surprised too. Just the stress of apparently shooting, scurrying
to hide the rifle, scooting downstairs to the lunchroom, encountering
a policeman with gun drawn and crossing paths with Mrs. Reid ..... I
would have thought his heart would have been beating at 100 plus.
Perhaps it was, but he was somehow able to maintain an outward
appearance of "calmness." What are the physiological symptoms of
"shock"? Calmness? Are you sure?
>
> >He
> > had gotten a *coke* and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason
> > it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that
> > one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that
> > he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was
> > to come and get change [as Geneva has already told us] and he already had
> > his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I
> > didn't think anything else.
>
> Interesting. It was unusual for the "warehouse boys" to enter the
> territory of the office workers without reason (like getting change).
> Since Oswald already had his soda, he didn`t need change, so why was he
> there?
Mrs. Reid described one such incident. He was telling someone he had
"a baby".
Apparently he did not ask for change that time. Maybe he was excited,
and wanted to boast about his new baby.
That's natural. Certainly, having just been confronted by a policeman
with pistol drawn, would constitute another special occasion.
Unfortunately we don't know what he mumbled. Did he say: "I know. Just
saw a cop."
> > Now this happened just 2 minutes after the shooting.
>
> Can three minutes be ruled out?
Belin operated the stopwatch.
>
> > Belin and Reid had
> > used a "stopwatch" to time the events and such activity left them "huffing
> > and puffing" because they "ran". Oswald must have come directly from his
> > meeting with Truly and Baker in the lunchroom.
So Mrs. Reid was "huffing and puffing" and Oswald was "calm." Mmmm.
Infamy implies a degree of notoriety, doesn't it?
He was still a relative unknown character.
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
Bud
Could have been. Baker neglected to crack open his chest.
> Perhaps it was, but he was somehow able to maintain an outward
> appearance of "calmness."
Nobody would confuse the "appearance of calmness" as evidence of
innocence, would they?
> What are the physiological symptoms of
> "shock"? Calmness? Are you sure?
That isn`t the kind of shock i was going for. Mental overload.
Dumbfounded. That kind of thing.
> > >He
> > > had gotten a *coke* and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason
> > > it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that
> > > one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that
> > > he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was
> > > to come
>
> ...
>
> read more »
claviger
Interesting narrative.
> Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?
> Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the
> phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us
> and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the
> east window in our office.
The lights and phones went dead? Must be the CT at work.
> HINE. Yes, sir; going north on Houston Street. I saw it turn left and I
> saw the President's car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving
> his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn
> the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car
> coming. Just at the instant I saw the **next** car coming up was when I
> heard the shots.
This part supports the Max Holland theory.
> Ms. Hine wanted to look out another window to see why the folks were
> running towards the underpass. So she tried the door of Lyons and
> Carnahan. Darn. It was locked. So she moved on to the Southwestern
> Publishing Co., and lo and behold another person had not bothered to go
> out and watch the President. Indeed this person had locked the door and
> could only be seen through a thin curtain.
Now we know who the lookout was coordinating all the shooters. It was
the mysterious woman on the phone behind the thin curtain behind the
locked door.
> Strange that he would be calm after having a loaded weapon pointed
> at him shortly before Reid saw him. Perhaps he was still shocked over
> his recent successful assassination.
That is a good guess. LHO had no exit strategy so he pondered what to
do next. He walked down stairs to see if he could escape the building
in the confusion. He remained calm and even directed a reporter to a
telephone. Evidently the police were distracted enough for him to slip
out the door and catch the bus.
> Interesting. It was unusual for the "warehouse boys" to enter the
> territory of the office workers without reason (like getting change).
> Since Oswald already had his soda, he didn`t need change, so why was he
> there?
Plausible deniability, to establish an alibi. The coke was a good
prop. This was a good tactic because it has fooled many a CT. Another
reason was to buy time. He was in a safe place where he normally
didn’t hang out, a quiet temporary bolt hole untill he could think of
the best way to escape. It worked.
> Now this happened just 2 minutes after the shooting.
Surprising what can be done in two minutes.
Peter Fokes
Yup. Thank heavens.
>
> > Perhaps it was, but he was somehow able to maintain an outward
> > appearance of "calmness."
>
> Nobody would confuse the "appearance of calmness" as evidence
Ya, guy up here in Canada decapitated the guy sitting next to him on a
Greyhound bus.
He seemed calm.
Now had Oswald been ranting incoherently, threatening Mrs. Reid with
the coke bottle, running through the office, huffing and puffing or
holding up his hand in a fist,
then wouldn't we construe that as evidence?
>
> read more
Did you forget to "read more"?
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
pamela
>
> read more »
We can get a glimpse of the obstacles facing the prosecution had LHO
been allowed to live to stand trial. Just think -- maybe it was that
bottle of pop that cost LHO his life.
Bud
Not really. Tippit might still be alive today.
> > > Perhaps it was, but he was somehow able to maintain an outward
> > > appearance of "calmness."
> >
> > Nobody would confuse the "appearance of calmness" as evidence
>
> Ya, guy up here in Canada decapitated the guy sitting next to him on a
> Greyhound bus.
> He seemed calm.
Yah, I googled "calm murderer", and found a number of headlines. It
might be that the appearance of calmness after a murder is common.
> Now had Oswald been ranting incoherently, threatening Mrs. Reid with
> the coke bottle, running through the office, huffing and puffing or
> holding up his hand in a fist,
> then wouldn't we construe that as evidence?
For sure. How could such outlandish behavior so soon after Kennedy`s
murder not be evidence? But Oswald, being the culprit, had a vested
interest in trying not to draw attention in such a manner.
> >
> > read more
>
> Did you forget to "read more"?
Yah. I saw a few things I would have commented on, I think I`ll
pick it up where i left off.
> Regards,
> Peter Fokes,
> Toronto
Bud
Possibly "Shut up or you`ll be next."
> > > Now this happened just 2 minutes after the shooting.
> >
> > Can three minutes be ruled out?
>
> Belin operated the stopwatch.
Not at the time of the murder.
> > > Belin and Reid had
> > > used a "stopwatch" to time the events and such activity left them "huffing
> > > and puffing" because they "ran". Oswald must have come directly from his
> > > meeting with Truly and Baker in the lunchroom.
>
> So Mrs. Reid was "huffing and puffing" and Oswald was "calm." Mmmm.
The real question is whether a slender 24 year old Oswald can descend 4
flights of stairs without it being apparent that he descended 4 flights of
stairs to cop with his adrenaline flowing, apparently looking for someone
who didn`t belong in the building. It appears that Baker was not initially
willing to assume that Oswald could not be the person he thought had just
fired shots from the roof of the TSBD.
Bud
> Interesting narrative.
>
> > Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?
> > Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the
> > phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us
> > and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the
> > east window in our office.
>
> The lights and phones went dead?
I think she was talking about the activity on her switchboard here (the
lights on her switchboard went dead, not the building lights). She says
the activity stopped because of the motorcade, but it probably because it
was lunchtime.
Bud
Pamela wrote:
> We can get a glimpse of the obstacles facing the prosecution had LHO
> been allowed to live to stand trial.
Bud wrote:
We can get a glimpse of the impossibility of what the CTers propose.
The conspiracy that the CTers imagine has gone to a great deal of
effort to set up Oswald as the patsy. Then they risk it all by having
him roam the TSBD on a whim. What if there were a few people in that
lunchroom (it was lunchtime)? CTers would have that alibi they so they
are so desperate to pretend Oswald has.
Pamela wrote:
> Just think -- maybe it was that
> bottle of pop that cost LHO his life.
Bud wrote:
More likely the fact that he killed a popular President beforehand.
Sean Murphy
yeuhd
> I am surprised too. Just the stress of apparently shooting, scurrying
> to hide the rifle, scooting downstairs to the lunchroom, encountering
> a policeman with gun drawn and crossing paths with Mrs. Reid ..... I
> would have thought his heart would have been beating at 100 plus.
In the reconstruction of Oswald's movements from the sniper's nest to the
2nd floor, the agent who performed Oswald's part did it twice in a row,
first at a normal walking pace, and then at a fast walking pace, with no
break except to take the elevator back to the 6th floor. He was not out of
breath after either trial.
Most of us learn as children how to appear calm and innocent when we have
done something wrong. Oswald was no stranger to this ability. Helen
Markham spoke of the matter-of-fact way that Oswald shot Tippit and walked
away.
Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He fell to the ground, and his cap went a little ways
out on the street.
Mr. BALL. What did the man do?
Mrs. MARKHAM. The man, he just walked calmly, fooling with his gun.
tomnln
"yeuhd" <Needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:262d850d-44f1-46ca...@o36g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 8, 11:04 am, Peter Fokes <boreal4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am surprised too. Just the stress of apparently shooting, scurrying
> to hide the rifle, scooting downstairs to the lunchroom, encountering
> a policeman with gun drawn and crossing paths with Mrs. Reid ..... I
> would have thought his heart would have been beating at 100 plus.
yeuhd wrote;
In the reconstruction of Oswald's movements from the sniper's nest to the
2nd floor, the agent who performed Oswald's part did it twice in a row,
first at a normal walking pace, and then at a fast walking pace, with no
break except to take the elevator back to the 6th floor. He was not out of
breath after either trial.
You forgot to allow that someone "rearranged the boxes in the window within
2 minutes of the shooting"
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Most of us learn as children how to appear calm and innocent when we have
done something wrong. Oswald was no stranger to this ability. Helen
Markham spoke of the matter-of-fact way that Oswald shot Tippit and walked
away.
I'll BET You DID ! ! !
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Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He fell to the ground, and his cap went a little ways
out on the street.
Mr. BALL. What did the man do?
Mrs. MARKHAM. The man, he just walked calmly, fooling with his gun.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
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