Oswald's passport renewal in 1963 includes some curious errors

[Canuck]

I was looking at Oswald's 1963 application to renew his passport (his 1959 one was renewed in 1962 in Moscow, but only for the purpose of returning to the U.S.). Here are some of the curious entries:

Height - 5' 11" (consistent with 1959 passport and his US Marine medical report prior to his release from active duty and his military i.d. card, as well as height estimated by FBI agent when interviewed in Ft. Worth, but inconsistent with various employment forms, etc., filled out after returning to the U.S., in which he indicated he was 5' 9")
Occupation - photographer (worked for photo company in Dallas, but was working for coffee company in New Orleans)
Visible Distinguishing Marks - none (mastoid scar behind left ear, scar on wrist, scar on elbow) btw - I have a mastoid scar behind my right ear
Permanent Residence - 757 French St., New Orleans (his aunt's place, not his except briefly when he first arrived in May or late April)
Father's name - Robert Lee Oswald (actually it was Robert Edward Lee Oswald, Sr.)
Mother's maiden name - Margret Clavier (actually it was Marguerite Claverie)
Date of Marriage (if married) - April 31, 1961 (I guess that way he never had to give Marina a birthday present)
Wife's maiden name - Marina Prossakava (actually it was Marina Nikolayevna Prusakova)
In event of death or accident - contact Lilian Murrett (actually it's Lillian Murret)

Despite having had his "honorable discharge" (which Oswald spelled "honourable"
on several documents/letters) reduced to "undesirable discharge", as a result of his defection and failure to report for two years of USMC inactive duty as required, his passport was renewed on June 25, 1963. He indicated he planned to leave New Orleans (by ship) and travel to numerous European countries, including England, France, Holland, Germany, Poland, "Findland" - (sic), as well as the USSR, and planned on leaving between Sept. and Dec. 1963 for up to a year. There was no indication that he was bringing his family along with him. Oswald had gone through all those countries previously either going to or leaving the USSR. - prwhitmey

[Ace Kefford]

And another brick falls from the cover-up wall! Do you really think that
when was fills in a form with the (always ridiculous) item of "visible
distinguishing marks" that you put in little scars not generally visible?

[Canuck]

You need to read your message before you send it: "...when was fills in a
form".

Marina testified that she had noticed the scar on Oswald's wrist (caused
by his alleged attempted suicide), but never asked him about it. Scars,
whether noticeable or not, are "distinguishing marks". If Oswald didn't
have any scars as he indicated, it would suggest he was an impostor, or
else why wouldn't he list them? You make no comments on the other
"curious" errors that I listed.

-prwhitmey

[Anthony Marsh]

Shouldn't Oswald have had scars from the suicide attempt and from
shooting himself?

[claviger]

Canuck,

> Marina testified that she had noticed the scar on Oswald's wrist (caused
> by his alleged attempted suicide), but never asked him about it.  Scars,
> whether noticeable or not, are "distinguishing marks".  If Oswald didn't
> have any scars as he indicated, it would suggest he was an impostor, or
> else why wouldn't he list them?  You make no comments on the other
> "curious" errors that I listed.
>
> -prwhitmey

The bad spelling proves it was LHO.

[Ace Kefford]

Sorry, I have a tendency to sub in "soundalikes" in typing. Please change "was" to "one".

And I stand by the point that any reasonable person would not expect people to include non-deforming, non-face disfiguring scars as part of filling in the (stupid) category of "distinguishing marks".

Nothing at all "curious" about that "omission."

I continue to be baffled by those in the conspiracy camp who think the high school debate method of throwing in every "fact" or "problem" you can (even the weak ones) is a good form of argumentation. In real life persuasion the rule is go with your good stuff, not stuff that is at best trivial.

[claviger]

Canuck,

> Marina testified that she had noticed the scar on Oswald's wrist (caused
> by his alleged attempted suicide), but never asked him about it.  Scars,
> whether noticeable or not, are "distinguishing marks".  If Oswald didn't
> have any scars as he indicated, it would suggest he was an impostor, or
> else why wouldn't he list them?

Are you suggesting the KGB gave LHO a lobotomy while in Minsk and
Marina is actually the Russian version of Nurse Ratched?

[Anthony Marsh]

Maybe someone told them not to list the scars. Sometimes when I don't
comment it means that I agree and there is nothing to argue about.
Sometimes I means that the item is so trivial that I don't think it is
worth arguing about or someone else already answered it. On some forums
there are ways to indicate that with emoticons.

> -prwhitmey
>

[Canuck]

Ace, I don't understand the "soundalike" explanation you give, as "was"
doesn't sound like "one".

As for Oswald's passport application, he knew that he had to be careful in
filling it out in order to assure it would be approved (which only took
one day). That's why he listed his height as 5'11" (consistent with his
1959 passport and 1959 USMC medical report) rather than 5'9", which he
always listed on various applications forms, etc. since returning from
Russia. He also likely knew that his Marine medical report showed that he
had four scars (plus the one on his wrist from Russia): behind his left
ear, elbow, hand and ULA ("under left arm" perhaps), so why would he not
list them, just to be totally honest.

It does state on the form that one can be prosecuted for not answering the
questions honestly.

As for family names being misspelled, how could he not know his mother's
name first name and maiden name correctly? Or his wife's maiden name? Or
that he was married on April 30, 1961, not April 31, which doesn't
exist!!! And why not list his actual home address, rather than his aunt's
place, just in case someone phoned her and found out he didn't live there?

Keep in mind that Oswald had his "honorable discharge" (which he spelled
"honourable" on several occasions, including in his letter to Connally in
Jan. 1961) reduced to "undesirable" (not "dishonorable" as it turns out).
He was required to report for Inactive Marine Corps Reserve training in
Illinois, presumably after his mother recovered from her minor injury.
He broke the law by leaving the country without the permission of the USMC
and actually should not have been granted a new passport for that reason.
I've learned from the Warren volumes that he did apply to have the USMC
board review his case, and change his discharge back to "honorable", but
his appeal was rejected (which he learned in July, 1963). He even stated
that he wanted to rejoin his reserve unit. So that was one more reason to
be careful he answering the questions on the application.

Of course, the fact that he got a new passport so quickly under his
circumstances sure looks suspicious to me. - prwhitmey

[Canuck]

What do you mean by "told them", "emoticons"? Are you suggesting scars
are trivial? - prwhitmey

[Canuck]

Ha-ha. Who knows what might have happened to Oswald while in Russia. I
know that Hoover and the State Dep't were both concerned about the
possibility of an impostor posing as Oswald. That's why the Embassy
wouldn't mail him his passport, as he requested, but made him come to
Moscow from Minsk (how did he afford that trip?). Have you seen the photo
in CROSSFIRE (paperback edition) between p. 308 and p. 309 (in photo
section) in which the late Jack White lined up the 1959 passport picture
of Oswald (left side) with the Russian photo (right side), which appears
on the fake Alek James Hidell draft card? It looks like "Russian Oswald"
shrunk about two inches. - prwhitmey

[Anthony Marsh]

Hoover was worried about the Soviets creating an Oswald substitution.

[claviger]

Canuck,

> Ha-ha.  Who knows what might have happened to Oswald while in Russia.  I
> know that Hoover and the State Dep't were both concerned about the
> possibility of an impostor posing as Oswald.  That's why the Embassy
> wouldn't mail him his passport, as he requested, but made him come to
> Moscow from Minsk (how did he afford that trip?).  Have you seen the photo
> in CROSSFIRE (paperback edition) between p. 308 and p. 309 (in photo
> section) in which the late Jack White lined up the 1959 passport picture
> of Oswald (left side) with the Russian photo (right side), which appears
> on the fake Alek James Hidell draft card?  It looks like "Russian Oswald"
> shrunk about two inches. - prwhitmey

Don't you think LHO's mother and brother would know if the returning
LHO was a Russian impostor?

[Anthony Marsh]

"Told them" means someone ordered them.
Emoticons are like smilies. ;]>


English please. I said "sometimes." Sometimes you may think something is
important and I think it is trivial.

[Canuck]

You would think so. Robert was asked about the phoney draft card with
"Russian Oswald" on it (of course, American draft cards didn't include a
photo back then, and possibly still don't), during his WC interview (which
I'm part way through).

He said in response: "He appears heavier, his face is fuller, he has more
hair on his head, but the eyes and the nose and the mouth are Lee Harvey
Oswald's. I had not studied that picture before. He does seem to be quite
fullfaced...and (has) much more hair on his head." He had been shown pages
from LIFE magazine and the draft card (at the bottom) is quite small (CE
288 Vol. XVI).

I plan on writing to Robert Oswald, whom I contacted by letter and phone
back in 1987. He still lives in the same city, with the same listed phone
number as back then. He turned 79 last month. Btw, in one of Lee's
letters from Russia, he wondered when Robert's birthday was, thinking it
was sometime in July. As he told the WC, it is on April 7. Wouldn't
brothers know each others' birthdays, like my three sons do? Or at least
know the month!! - prwhitmey

[Anthony Marsh]

With Dyslexia is often misspelled words that he knew.
Doesn' mean anything suspicious.

[Anthony Marsh]

One would hope so, which is why I don't think the Russians sent back an
impostor. But there have been impostors who fooled friends and family.
You have to limit how you use the impostor.

[claviger]

Canuck,

> > Don't you think LHO's mother and brother would know if the returning
>
> > LHO was a Russian impostor?
>
> You would think so.  Robert was asked about the phoney draft card with
> "Russian Oswald" on it (of course, American draft cards didn't include a
> photo back then, and possibly still don't), during his WC interview (which
> I'm part way through).
>
> He said in response:  "He appears heavier, his face is fuller, he has more
> hair on his head, but the eyes and the nose and the mouth are Lee Harvey
> Oswald's. I had not studied that picture before.  He does seem to be quite
> fullfaced...and (has) much more hair on his head." He had been shown pages
> from LIFE magazine and the draft card (at the bottom) is quite small (CE
> 288 Vol. XVI).
>
> I plan on writing to Robert Oswald, whom I contacted by letter and phone
> back in 1987. He still lives in the same city, with the same listed phone
> number as back then.  He turned 79 last month.  Btw, in one of Lee's
> letters from Russia, he wondered when Robert's birthday was, thinking it
> was sometime in July.  As he told the WC, it is on April 7.  Wouldn't
> brothers know each others' birthdays, like my three sons do?  Or at least
> know the month!! - prwhitmey

If the Soviet impostor came back with Marina did she know about the
switch? If so, chances are she was aware of the mission. What
happened to the real LHO? Is he dead or in a gulag somewhere? If
true, the LHO patsy was actually a double patsy.

[Canuck]

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:13:59 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> Canuck, > > Don't you think LHO's mother and brother would know if the returning > > > LHO was a Russian impostor? > > You would think so.  Robert was asked about the phoney draft card with > "Russian Oswald" on it (of course, American draft cards didn't include a > photo back then, and possibly still don't), during his WC interview (which > I'm part way through). > > He said in response:  "He appears heavier, his face is fuller, he has more > hair on his head, but the eyes and the nose and the mouth are Lee Harvey > Oswald's. I had not studied that picture before.  He does seem to be quite > fullfaced...and (has) much more hair on his head." He had been shown pages > from LIFE magazine and the draft card (at the bottom) is quite small (CE > 288 Vol. XVI). > > I plan on writing to Robert Oswald, whom I contacted by letter and phone > back in 1987. He still lives in the same city, with the same listed phone > number as back then.  He turned 79 last month.  Btw, in one of Lee's > letters from Russia, he wondered when Robert's birthday was, thinking it > was sometime in July.  As he told the WC, it is on April 7.  Wouldn't > brothers know each others' birthdays, like my three sons do?  Or at least > know the month!! - prwhitmey If the Soviet impostor came back with Marina did she know about the switch? If so, chances are she was aware of the mission. What happened to the real LHO? Is he dead or in a gulag somewhere? If true, the LHO patsy was actually a double patsy.

I don't profess to know the answers to some of my questions. IF an
impostor came back, I would assume that's whom Marina met. To my eye, the
picture of Oswald on his 1959 passport looks somewhat like the picture on
his fake Hidell draft card, but they don't really look like the same
person, and as the late Jack White showed, one head appears to be shorter
than the other. I keep finding details that the W.C either didn't want to
comment on, or ask about, or simply overlooked, over and over again, like
the conflicting record of Oswald's height and the birthplace error on his
Soviet exit visa, or not knowing his mother's first or maiden name
correctly, or thinking it was "hot" in Texas in Feb. or thinking he was
married on April 31, or not knowing Robert birthday (not even the right
month), or referring to his half- brother by his last name all the time.

-prwhitmey

[Sandy McCroskey]

The late Jack White was, with all due respect (i.e., none) a cretin.
He thought the moon landings were fake. For one thing.

/sm

[Anthony Marsh]

On 5/21/2013 12:08 AM, Canuck wrote:
> On Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:13:59 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
>> Canuck, > > Don't you think LHO's mother and brother would know if the returning > > > LHO was a Russian impostor? > > You would think so. Robert was asked about the phoney draft card with > "Russian Oswald" on it (of course, American draft cards didn't include a > photo back then, and possibly still don't), during his WC interview (which > I'm part way through). > > He said in response: "He appears heavier, his face is fuller, he has more > hair on his head, but the eyes and the nose and the mouth are Lee Harvey > Oswald's. I had not studied that picture before. He does seem to be quite > fullfaced...and (has) much more hair on his head." He had been shown pages > from LIFE magazine and the draft card (at the bottom) is quite small (CE > 288 Vol. XVI). > > I plan on writing to Robert Oswald, whom I contacted by letter and phone > back in 1987. He still lives in the same city, with the same listed phone > number as back then. He turned 79 last month. Btw, in one of Le
e's > l
etters from Russia, he wondered when Robert's birthday was, thinking it > was sometime in July. As he told the WC, it is on April 7. Wouldn't > brothers know each others' birthdays, like my three sons do? Or at least > know the month!! - prwhitmey If the Soviet impostor came back with Marina did she know about the switch? If so, chances are she was aware of the mission. What happened to the real LHO? Is he dead or in a gulag somewhere? If true, the LHO patsy was actually a double patsy.
>
> I don't profess to know the answers to some of my questions. IF an
> impostor came back, I would assume that's whom Marina met. To my eye, the
> picture of Oswald on his 1959 passport looks somewhat like the picture on
> his fake Hidell draft card, but they don't really look like the same
> person, and as the late Jack White showed, one head appears to be shorter

Jack White was an idiot and not qualified to say anything about photos.

> than the other. I keep finding details that the W.C either didn't want to
> comment on, or ask about, or simply overlooked, over and over again, like
> the conflicting record of Oswald's height and the birthplace error on his
> Soviet exit visa, or not knowing his mother's first or maiden name
> correctly, or thinking it was "hot" in Texas in Feb. or thinking he was
> married on April 31, or not knowing Robert birthday (not even the right
> month), or referring to his half- brother by his last name all the time.
>

That's why researchers have researched what the WC refused to research.

> -prwhitmey
>

[Canuck]

Don't you get tired of name calling Tony, especially when the man is dead.
I had the privilege of being at the same dinner table as Jack in
Minneapolis in 1999. He was a fine gentleman and did a lot towards
showing how inconsistent the photos of LHO were. Try to make your point
without getting person, ok? - prw

[John McAdams]

On 22 May 2013 00:58:22 -0400, Canuck <prwh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:25 PM UTC-7, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 5/21/2013 12:08 AM, Canuck wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jack White was an idiot and not qualified to say anything about photos.
>>
>>
>

>Don't you get tired of name calling Tony, especially when the man is dead.
>I had the privilege of being at the same dinner table as Jack in
>Minneapolis in 1999. He was a fine gentleman and did a lot towards
>showing how inconsistent the photos of LHO were. Try to make your point
>without getting person, ok? - prw

Peter, it doesn't matter that he was a nice man. His "photo analysis"
is crackpot stuff.

See:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/experts.htm#JWHITE

On the photos of Oswald:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/penrose.htm

All the supposed "inconsistencies" are bogus.

The there is his non-JFK work.

Look for his name here:

http://theconspiracyzone.podcastpeople.com/posts/28159

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2009/08/jack-whites-apollo-hoax-evidence.html

Of course, he thinks 9/11 photos were faked too:

http://jackwhites911studies.org/

http://philjayhan.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/jack-whites-introduction-to-his-911-pentagon-studies/

Are you beginning to notice a pattern?


.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Anthony Marsh]

Excuse me? Who the Hell are you to call me out? I called him a kook while
he was alive. Do you also apply your prissy rule to Hitler so we can't
call him a bad person because he is dead?

> I had the privilege of being at the same dinner table as Jack in
> Minneapolis in 1999. He was a fine gentleman and did a lot towards
> showing how inconsistent the photos of LHO were. Try to make your point
> without getting person, ok? - prw
>

So what? I had lunch with Fletcher Prouty and he was a pleasant fellow,
but a complete kook. He flunked my tests of his bona fides. If I talk
about the qualifications of someone it is necessary to get personal. If
someone claims to be be ex-Green Beret I can question if that is true and
when I find out it is not true, I will label him for the liar he is.

[Canuck]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:07:17 PM UTC-7, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 5/22/2013 12:58 AM, Canuck wrote: > On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:25 PM UTC-7, Anthony Marsh wrote: >> On 5/21/2013 12:08 AM, Canuck wrote: >> >>> On Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:13:59 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote: >> >>>> Canuck, > > Don't you think LHO's mother and brother would know if the returning > > > LHO was a Russian impostor? > > You would think so. Robert was asked about the phoney draft card with > "Russian Oswald" on it (of course, American draft cards didn't include a > photo back then, and possibly still don't), during his WC interview (which > I'm part way through). > > He said in response: "He appears heavier, his face is fuller, he has more > hair on his head, but the eyes and the nose and the mouth are Lee Harvey > Oswald's. I had not studied that picture before. He does seem to be quite > fullfaced...and (has) much more hair on his head." He had been shown pages > from LIFE magazine and the draft card (at the bottom) is quite small (CE > 288 Vol. XVI). > > I plan on writing to Robert Oswald, whom I contacted by letter and phone > back in 1987. He still lives in the same city, with the same listed phone > number as back then. He turned 79 last month. Btw, in one of Le >> >> e's > l >> >> etters from Russia, he wondered when Robert's birthday was, thinking it > was sometime in July. As he told the WC, it is on April 7. Wouldn't > brothers know each others' birthdays, like my three sons do? Or at least > know the month!! - prwhitmey If the Soviet impostor came back with Marina did she know about the switch? If so, chances are she was aware of the mission. What happened to the real LHO? Is he dead or in a gulag somewhere? If true, the LHO patsy was actually a double patsy. >> >>> >> >>> I don't profess to know the answers to some of my questions. IF an >> >>> impostor came back, I would assume that's whom Marina met. To my eye, the >> >>> picture of Oswald on his 1959 passport looks somewhat like the picture on >> >>> his fake Hidell draft card, but they don't really look like the same >> >>> person, and as the late Jack White showed, one head appears to be shorter >> >> >> >> Jack White was an idiot and not qualified to say anything about photos. >> >> >> >>> than the other. I keep finding details that the W.C either didn't want to >> >>> comment on, or ask about, or simply overlooked, over and over again, like >> >>> the conflicting record of Oswald's height and the birthplace error on his >> >>> Soviet exit visa, or not knowing his mother's first or maiden name >> >>> correctly, or thinking it was "hot" in Texas in Feb. or thinking he was >> >>> married on April 31, or not knowing Robert birthday (not even the right >> >>> month), or referring to his half- brother by his last name all the time. >> >>> >> >> >> >> That's why researchers have researched what the WC refused to research. >> >> >> >>> -prwhitmey >> >>> > > Don't you get tired of name calling Tony, especially when the man is dead. Excuse me? Who the Hell are you to call me out? I called him a kook while he was alive. Do you also apply your prissy rule to Hitler so we can't call him a bad person because he is dead? > I had the privilege of being at the same dinner table as Jack in > Minneapolis in 1999. He was a fine gentleman and did a lot towards > showing how inconsistent the photos of LHO were. Try to make your point > without getting person, ok? - prw > So what? I had lunch with Fletcher Prouty and he was a pleasant fellow, but a complete kook. He flunked my tests of his bona fides. If I talk about the qualifications of someone it is necessary to get personal. If someone claims to be be ex-Green Beret I can question if that is true and when I find out it is not true, I will label him for the liar he is.

Oops ! I meant to state "without getting personal." You come across on
this newsgroup as quite irritable, and project a superior, condescending
attitude towards others you don't agree with. Maybe you're spending far
too much of your time dealing with the subject. Why don't you write a
book instead? -Peter R. Whitmey

[Anthony Marsh]

Hard to tell what you mean when you refuse to quote properly. Your
message is a mess.
I am irritable because I see so many people lying about the evidence.
I am superior and my condescending attitude is because I have the
documents and my opponents don't. They think they can win any argument
by bullying, cheap insults, and lying about what I've said.
I've been at this for over 30 years and I've seen all their nasty tricks
and I know they have to use them because they don't have the evidence.
Many have never even read the Warren Commission Report.