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Re: Mark Lane #11
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John McAdams
May 28, 2012, 6:02:13 PM5/28/12
to
On 28 May 2012 08:31:18 -0700, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
wrote:
>In the previous quotes, Mark Lane covered the overpass, and the front of the
>TBSD, witnesses near the GK fence, witnesses with the limousine, and sheriff
>deputies... in the last post he listed Secret Service Agents... now he's moving
>on:
>
>"Secret Service agents, Dallas police officers and Dallas County deputy sheriffs
>posted here and there around the plaza agreed that the shots seemed to have come
>from the knoll. Many officers said that as soon as the shots were fired they ran
>directly to the knoll and behind the wooden fence and began to search the area,
>some of them passing the Book Depository Building on the way. Lee Bowers
>testified that at least 50 law enforcement officers were engaged in searching
>the parking lot and the railroad yards behind the fence within minutes of the
>assassination, other eyewitnesses confirmed this estimate."
>
>Mark Lane is continuing to demonstrate that witnesses from *all* over Dealey
>Plaza were pointing to the Grassy Knoll... and the kooks continue to be unable
>to refute these statements of Mark Lane.
Only a minority of witnesses who had an opinion about the direction of
the shots thought they came from the Grassy Knoll.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
evidence.
Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
wrote:
>In the previous quotes, Mark Lane covered the overpass, and the front of the
>TBSD, witnesses near the GK fence, witnesses with the limousine, and sheriff
>deputies... in the last post he listed Secret Service Agents... now he's moving
>on:
>
>"Secret Service agents, Dallas police officers and Dallas County deputy sheriffs
>posted here and there around the plaza agreed that the shots seemed to have come
>from the knoll. Many officers said that as soon as the shots were fired they ran
>directly to the knoll and behind the wooden fence and began to search the area,
>some of them passing the Book Depository Building on the way. Lee Bowers
>testified that at least 50 law enforcement officers were engaged in searching
>the parking lot and the railroad yards behind the fence within minutes of the
>assassination, other eyewitnesses confirmed this estimate."
>
>Mark Lane is continuing to demonstrate that witnesses from *all* over Dealey
>Plaza were pointing to the Grassy Knoll... and the kooks continue to be unable
>to refute these statements of Mark Lane.
Only a minority of witnesses who had an opinion about the direction of
the shots thought they came from the Grassy Knoll.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
evidence.
Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
May 29, 2012, 12:44:08 AM5/29/12
to
On 5/28/2012 6:02 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> On 28 May 2012 08:31:18 -0700, Ben Holmes<ad...@burningknife.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In the previous quotes, Mark Lane covered the overpass, and the front of the
>> TBSD, witnesses near the GK fence, witnesses with the limousine, and sheriff
>> deputies... in the last post he listed Secret Service Agents... now he's moving
>> on:
>>
>> "Secret Service agents, Dallas police officers and Dallas County deputy sheriffs
>> posted here and there around the plaza agreed that the shots seemed to have come
>>from the knoll. Many officers said that as soon as the shots were fired they ran
>> directly to the knoll and behind the wooden fence and began to search the area,
>> some of them passing the Book Depository Building on the way. Lee Bowers
>> testified that at least 50 law enforcement officers were engaged in searching
>> the parking lot and the railroad yards behind the fence within minutes of the
>> assassination, other eyewitnesses confirmed this estimate."
>>
>> Mark Lane is continuing to demonstrate that witnesses from *all* over Dealey
>> Plaza were pointing to the Grassy Knoll... and the kooks continue to be unable
>> to refute these statements of Mark Lane.
>
> Only a minority of witnesses who had an opinion about the direction of
> the shots thought they came from the Grassy Knoll.
>
Not true.
> On 28 May 2012 08:31:18 -0700, Ben Holmes<ad...@burningknife.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In the previous quotes, Mark Lane covered the overpass, and the front of the
>> TBSD, witnesses near the GK fence, witnesses with the limousine, and sheriff
>> deputies... in the last post he listed Secret Service Agents... now he's moving
>> on:
>>
>> "Secret Service agents, Dallas police officers and Dallas County deputy sheriffs
>> posted here and there around the plaza agreed that the shots seemed to have come
>>from the knoll. Many officers said that as soon as the shots were fired they ran
>> directly to the knoll and behind the wooden fence and began to search the area,
>> some of them passing the Book Depository Building on the way. Lee Bowers
>> testified that at least 50 law enforcement officers were engaged in searching
>> the parking lot and the railroad yards behind the fence within minutes of the
>> assassination, other eyewitnesses confirmed this estimate."
>>
>> Mark Lane is continuing to demonstrate that witnesses from *all* over Dealey
>> Plaza were pointing to the Grassy Knoll... and the kooks continue to be unable
>> to refute these statements of Mark Lane.
>
> Only a minority of witnesses who had an opinion about the direction of
> the shots thought they came from the Grassy Knoll.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
>
You fudged the numbers and misrepresented what the witnesses said.
Zapruder told the SS that the position of the assassin was behind him so
you put Zapruder into the DON'T KNOW category because he didn't agree with
what you think is the correct answer, the TSBD.
> And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
> Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
> rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
> the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>
> So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
> evidence.
>
> Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
> Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
Sep 25, 2012, 9:29:28 PM9/25/12
to
On 28 May 2012 15:32:19 -0700, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
wrote:
>In article <08t7s75u6bnalrues...@4ax.com>, John McAdams says...
>
>Others clearly have other opinions.
But Lane won't acknowledge that a majority of the witnesses who
specified a direction said the direction of the TSBD.
>
>To make the point that Mark Lane lied, you'll have to do *much* better than
>this. Why not help Jean out with #4? (Oh, you can't... it shows *YOUR* website
>wrong too! Rather dishonest about What Mr. Dodd said on camera, aren't you?)
>
His earliest testimony was years before Mark Lane interviewed him, and
*that's* what I used.
>
>>And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>>Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>>rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>>the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>
>>So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>>evidence.
>
>
>So you're admitting that everyone rushed into the knoll area, and complaining
>about *why* they rushed there.
>
*Why* they rushed there was not because they heard shots from there.
It's because they saw a cop running up there.
And they did not *immediately* rush to the Knoll. Haygood was not
even in Dealey Plaza when the shots were fired. He eventually made
it.
>That's fine... you're simply stating that Mark Lane is correct.
>
No, Lane lied in claiming that the majority of witnesses heard shots
from the Knoll.
>
>
>>Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>>Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>
>
>Again, a matter of opinion.
No, a matter of fact.
And Lee Bowers, who was looking at the area behind the Stockade Fence
did not see a shooter.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
wrote:
>In article <08t7s75u6bnalrues...@4ax.com>, John McAdams says...
>>
>>On 28 May 2012 08:31:18 -0700, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In the previous quotes, Mark Lane covered the overpass, and the front of the
>>>TBSD, witnesses near the GK fence, witnesses with the limousine, and sheriff
>>>deputies... in the last post he listed Secret Service Agents... now he's moving
>>>on:
>>>
>>> "Secret Service agents, Dallas police officers and Dallas County deputy
>>> sheriffs posted here and there around the plaza agreed that the shots
>>> seemed to have come from the knoll. Many officers said that as soon as
>>> the shots were fired they ran directly to the knoll and behind the wooden
>>> fence and began to search the area, some of them passing the Book Depository
>>> Building on the way. Lee Bowers testified that at least 50 law enforcement
>>> officers were engaged in searching the parking lot and the railroad yards
>>> behind the fence within minutes of the assassination, other eyewitnesses
>>> confirmed this estimate."
>>>
>>>Mark Lane is continuing to demonstrate that witnesses from *all* over Dealey
>>>Plaza were pointing to the Grassy Knoll... and the kooks continue to be unable
>>>to refute these statements of Mark Lane.
>>
>>Only a minority of witnesses who had an opinion about the direction of
>>the shots thought they came from the Grassy Knoll.
>>
>>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
>
>
>Your opinion.
>>On 28 May 2012 08:31:18 -0700, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In the previous quotes, Mark Lane covered the overpass, and the front of the
>>>TBSD, witnesses near the GK fence, witnesses with the limousine, and sheriff
>>>deputies... in the last post he listed Secret Service Agents... now he's moving
>>>on:
>>>
>>> "Secret Service agents, Dallas police officers and Dallas County deputy
>>> sheriffs posted here and there around the plaza agreed that the shots
>>> seemed to have come from the knoll. Many officers said that as soon as
>>> the shots were fired they ran directly to the knoll and behind the wooden
>>> fence and began to search the area, some of them passing the Book Depository
>>> Building on the way. Lee Bowers testified that at least 50 law enforcement
>>> officers were engaged in searching the parking lot and the railroad yards
>>> behind the fence within minutes of the assassination, other eyewitnesses
>>> confirmed this estimate."
>>>
>>>Mark Lane is continuing to demonstrate that witnesses from *all* over Dealey
>>>Plaza were pointing to the Grassy Knoll... and the kooks continue to be unable
>>>to refute these statements of Mark Lane.
>>
>>Only a minority of witnesses who had an opinion about the direction of
>>the shots thought they came from the Grassy Knoll.
>>
>>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
>
>
>
>Others clearly have other opinions.
But Lane won't acknowledge that a majority of the witnesses who
specified a direction said the direction of the TSBD.
>
>To make the point that Mark Lane lied, you'll have to do *much* better than
>this. Why not help Jean out with #4? (Oh, you can't... it shows *YOUR* website
>wrong too! Rather dishonest about What Mr. Dodd said on camera, aren't you?)
>
His earliest testimony was years before Mark Lane interviewed him, and
*that's* what I used.
>
>>And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>>Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>>rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>>the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>
>>So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>>evidence.
>
>
>about *why* they rushed there.
>
*Why* they rushed there was not because they heard shots from there.
It's because they saw a cop running up there.
And they did not *immediately* rush to the Knoll. Haygood was not
even in Dealey Plaza when the shots were fired. He eventually made
it.
>That's fine... you're simply stating that Mark Lane is correct.
>
No, Lane lied in claiming that the majority of witnesses heard shots
from the Knoll.
>
>
>>Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>>Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>
>
No, a matter of fact.
And Lee Bowers, who was looking at the area behind the Stockade Fence
did not see a shooter.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
Sep 25, 2012, 9:38:04 PM9/25/12
to
On 29 May 2012 00:44:08 -0400, Anthony Marsh
He told the WC that he could not tell, because there was too much
reverberation. He explained that he saw the right side of Kennedy's
head explode, and say people running up to the Knoll, and therefore
assumed the shots came from there.
.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
had seen?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
of--it had a sound all over.
It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
>> So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>> evidence.
>>
>> Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>> Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>>
>
>Muddy footprints. Fresh cigarette butts.
>
Oh, my! Of course we all know that only assassins leave footprints,
or smoke cigarettes.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
reverberation. He explained that he saw the right side of Kennedy's
head explode, and say people running up to the Knoll, and therefore
assumed the shots came from there.
.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
had seen?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
of--it had a sound all over.
It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
>
>
>> And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>> Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>> rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>> the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>
>
>Not quite right, but what do you think that means?
>
I say right below.
>
>> And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>> Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>> rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>> the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>
>
>Not quite right, but what do you think that means?
>
>> So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>> evidence.
>>
>> Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>> Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>>
>
>Muddy footprints. Fresh cigarette butts.
>
or smoke cigarettes.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Ben Holmes
Sep 26, 2012, 12:18:49 PM9/26/12
to
In article <uam46899d867ofq0b...@4ax.com>, John McAdams says...
How silly! He goes into detail beginning on page 36. Tell us John, before there
was any official position, and no possible FBI intimidation - you'd agree that
those who gave statements or affidavits on Friday and Saturday couldn't be
tainted... there are 25 of them who did so... how many said that the shots came
from the TSBD?
He also won't "acknowledge" that Oswald shot JFK.
>>To make the point that Mark Lane lied, you'll have to do *much* better than
>>this. Why not help Jean out with #4? (Oh, you can't... it shows *YOUR* website
>>wrong too! Rather dishonest about What Mr. Dodd said on camera, aren't you?)
>>
>
>His earliest testimony was years before Mark Lane interviewed him, and
>*that's* what I used.
Oh, I'll let readers make that determination...
>>>And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>>>Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>>>rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>>>the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>>
>>>So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>>>evidence.
>>
>>
>>So you're admitting that everyone rushed into the knoll area, and complaining
>>about *why* they rushed there.
>>
>
>*Why* they rushed there was not because they heard shots from there.
>It's because they saw a cop running up there.
You can't fight the evidence with speculation, John.
>And they did not *immediately* rush to the Knoll. Haygood was not
>even in Dealey Plaza when the shots were fired. He eventually made
>it.
Toying with words won't get the job done, John.
>>That's fine... you're simply stating that Mark Lane is correct.
>>
>
>No, Lane lied in claiming that the majority of witnesses heard shots
>from the Knoll.
Feel free to document your claim.
Speculation simply isn't going to convince anyone.
>>>Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>>>Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>>
>>
>>Again, a matter of opinion.
>
>No, a matter of fact.
Untrue.
>And Lee Bowers, who was looking at the area behind the Stockade Fence
>did not see a shooter.
Neither did Jeffrey McDonald. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it,
however.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
was any official position, and no possible FBI intimidation - you'd agree that
those who gave statements or affidavits on Friday and Saturday couldn't be
tainted... there are 25 of them who did so... how many said that the shots came
from the TSBD?
He also won't "acknowledge" that Oswald shot JFK.
>>To make the point that Mark Lane lied, you'll have to do *much* better than
>>this. Why not help Jean out with #4? (Oh, you can't... it shows *YOUR* website
>>wrong too! Rather dishonest about What Mr. Dodd said on camera, aren't you?)
>>
>
>His earliest testimony was years before Mark Lane interviewed him, and
>*that's* what I used.
>>>And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>>>Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>>>rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>>>the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>>
>>>So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>>>evidence.
>>
>>
>>So you're admitting that everyone rushed into the knoll area, and complaining
>>about *why* they rushed there.
>>
>
>*Why* they rushed there was not because they heard shots from there.
>It's because they saw a cop running up there.
>And they did not *immediately* rush to the Knoll. Haygood was not
>even in Dealey Plaza when the shots were fired. He eventually made
>it.
>>That's fine... you're simply stating that Mark Lane is correct.
>>
>
>No, Lane lied in claiming that the majority of witnesses heard shots
>from the Knoll.
Speculation simply isn't going to convince anyone.
>>>Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>>>Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>>
>>
>>Again, a matter of opinion.
>
>No, a matter of fact.
>And Lee Bowers, who was looking at the area behind the Stockade Fence
>did not see a shooter.
however.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
Anthony Marsh
Sep 26, 2012, 5:02:47 PM9/26/12
to
agent that the position of the assassin was behind him. You cherry pick
later statements after he had been told what to say. Exactly what Loftus
warns us about.
> .
> Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
> the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
> had seen?
> Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
> which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
> of--it had a sound all over.
>
> It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
position of the assassin was behind him.
>>
>>
>>> And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>>> Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>>> rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>>> the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>>
>>
>> Not quite right, but what do you think that means?
>>
>
> I say right below.
>
>>> So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>>> evidence.
>>>
>>> Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>>> Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>>>
>>
>> Muddy footprints. Fresh cigarette butts.
>>
>
> Oh, my! Of course we all know that only assassins leave footprints,
> or smoke cigarettes.
>
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>
Anthony Marsh
Sep 26, 2012, 5:03:43 PM9/26/12
to
>
>>
>> To make the point that Mark Lane lied, you'll have to do *much* better than
>> this. Why not help Jean out with #4? (Oh, you can't... it shows *YOUR* website
>> wrong too! Rather dishonest about What Mr. Dodd said on camera, aren't you?)
>>
>
> His earliest testimony was years before Mark Lane interviewed him, and
> *that's* what I used.
>
>
>>
>>> And essentially *nobody* was rushing up to the Knoll until Clyde
>>> Haygood -- a motorcycle cop who wasn't in Dealey Plaza when the shots
>>> rang out -- parked his bike in the street and ran up to the corner of
>>> the Stockade Fence and the Triple Underpass.
>>>
>>> So what Lane is invoking is merely crowd psychology, not any kind of
>>> evidence.
>>
>>
>> So you're admitting that everyone rushed into the knoll area, and complaining
>> about *why* they rushed there.
>>
>
> *Why* they rushed there was not because they heard shots from there.
> It's because they saw a cop running up there.
>
before the cop ran up there. What you should try is to claim that
everyone was running AWAY from the TSBD because they knew the shots came
from there.
You're slipping.
> And they did not *immediately* rush to the Knoll. Haygood was not
> even in Dealey Plaza when the shots were fired. He eventually made
> it.
>
>
>> That's fine... you're simply stating that Mark Lane is correct.
>>
>
> No, Lane lied in claiming that the majority of witnesses heard shots
> from the Knoll.
>
And majority is the wrong word. Plurality is the correct word.
But you'd need a college education to understand the difference. In the
President election coming up the winning candidate does not need a
majority of the votes cast. Only a plurality. How many Presidents lost
the popular vote count?
For extra credit, which President was elected with the lowest plurality?
>
>>
>>
>>> Add to that the fact that all those people who were behind the
>>> Stockade Fence didn't find any evidence of any shooter.
>>
>>
>> Again, a matter of opinion.
>
> No, a matter of fact.
>
> And Lee Bowers, who was looking at the area behind the Stockade Fence
> did not see a shooter.
>
attention. He said that he lost sight of the second man who was dressed
in dark clothes in the shadows.
Just because you don't see someone does not mean he is not there.
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>
John Reagor King
Sep 26, 2012, 5:07:40 PM9/26/12
to
In article <fkm468h27e2nodpsr...@4ax.com>,
times that I'm wrong when I say that less than 10% of the witnesses said
the shots came from multiple directions? He also seems to imply that no
one has ever put up those statistics before, yet you posted those long
before I first came to this newsgroup in October, 2002, and I see the link
for that very thing quoted above. The highest percentage given for
multiple directions there is Josiah Thompson's claim of 6.3%. You also
give the HSCA claim of 4% and Galanor's claim of 4.6%, and these were done
quite a few years before I came along. Yet Tony keeps saying, over and
over and over, that my statistics are "bogus" or similar nonsense, without
even trying to produce even a single shred of credible evidence to support
that, and without mentioning that other researchers long before me were
claiming significantly lower percentages than 10% for the total number of
witnesses who said shots came from at least two directions, and giving
plenty of statistics to support those claims. ;-)
John McAdams <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 00:44:08 -0400, Anthony Marsh
> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >On 5/28/2012 6:02 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> >> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
> >
> >You fudged the numbers and misrepresented what the witnesses said.
> >Zapruder told the SS that the position of the assassin was behind him so
> >you put Zapruder into the DON'T KNOW category because he didn't agree with
> >what you think is the correct answer, the TSBD.
>
> He told the WC that he could not tell, because there was too much
> reverberation. He explained that he saw the right side of Kennedy's
> head explode, and say people running up to the Knoll, and therefore
> assumed the shots came from there.
>
> .
> Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
> the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
> had seen?
> Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
> which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
> of--it had a sound all over.
>
> It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
It certainly is. .John, have you gotten a load of Tony telling me several
> On 29 May 2012 00:44:08 -0400, Anthony Marsh
> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >On 5/28/2012 6:02 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> >> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
> >
> >You fudged the numbers and misrepresented what the witnesses said.
> >Zapruder told the SS that the position of the assassin was behind him so
> >you put Zapruder into the DON'T KNOW category because he didn't agree with
> >what you think is the correct answer, the TSBD.
>
> He told the WC that he could not tell, because there was too much
> reverberation. He explained that he saw the right side of Kennedy's
> head explode, and say people running up to the Knoll, and therefore
> assumed the shots came from there.
>
> .
> Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
> the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
> had seen?
> Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
> which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
> of--it had a sound all over.
>
> It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
times that I'm wrong when I say that less than 10% of the witnesses said
the shots came from multiple directions? He also seems to imply that no
one has ever put up those statistics before, yet you posted those long
before I first came to this newsgroup in October, 2002, and I see the link
for that very thing quoted above. The highest percentage given for
multiple directions there is Josiah Thompson's claim of 6.3%. You also
give the HSCA claim of 4% and Galanor's claim of 4.6%, and these were done
quite a few years before I came along. Yet Tony keeps saying, over and
over and over, that my statistics are "bogus" or similar nonsense, without
even trying to produce even a single shred of credible evidence to support
that, and without mentioning that other researchers long before me were
claiming significantly lower percentages than 10% for the total number of
witnesses who said shots came from at least two directions, and giving
plenty of statistics to support those claims. ;-)
John Reagor King
Sep 27, 2012, 11:24:01 PM9/27/12
to
In article <50628c3e$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
.John quoted:
**********
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from
which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course,
you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere,
but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in
the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from
here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the
moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really
what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I
assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running
back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
**********
He also explained why he thought that, because it *looked* like it given
what he saw. He didn't actually say that he got that impression from
the sounds of the gunfire.
And he's yet another witness naming only one direction, eh Anthony? ;-)
Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 9/25/2012 9:38 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> > On 29 May 2012 00:44:08 -0400, Anthony Marsh
> > <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > .
> > Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
> > the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
> > had seen?
> > Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
> > which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
> > of--it had a sound all over.
> >
> > It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
>
> Again, WHEN did he say that? Not 11/22/63. On 11/22/63 he said the
> position of the assassin was behind him.
Actually he said that in his WC testimony too, before the part that
> On 9/25/2012 9:38 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> > On 29 May 2012 00:44:08 -0400, Anthony Marsh
> > <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > .
> > Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which
> > the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you
> > had seen?
> > Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
> > which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind
> > of--it had a sound all over.
> >
> > It's good to read witness testimony, Tony.
>
> Again, WHEN did he say that? Not 11/22/63. On 11/22/63 he said the
> position of the assassin was behind him.
.John quoted:
**********
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from
which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course,
you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere,
but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in
the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from
here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the
moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really
what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I
assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running
back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
**********
He also explained why he thought that, because it *looked* like it given
what he saw. He didn't actually say that he got that impression from
the sounds of the gunfire.
And he's yet another witness naming only one direction, eh Anthony? ;-)
Anthony Marsh
Sep 28, 2012, 1:44:57 PM9/28/12
to
> And he's yet another witness naming only one direction, eh Anthony? ;-)
>
And once again you are cherry picking the WC testimony and ignoring what
he said just after the shooting.
John Reagor King
Sep 28, 2012, 9:17:19 PM9/28/12
to
In article <50654a19$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
In his WC testimony? Where? Quote it verbatim.
> And once again you are cherry picking the WC testimony and ignoring what
> he said just after the shooting.
Oh, you mean the remainder of the testimony which follows right after
the part I quoted where he still didn't name any specific direction
other than behind him?
> And once again you are cherry picking the WC testimony and ignoring what
> he said just after the shooting.
the part I quoted where he still didn't name any specific direction
other than behind him?
Anthony Marsh
Sep 29, 2012, 1:05:06 PM9/29/12
to
On 9/28/2012 9:17 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
> In article <50654a19$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/27/2012 11:24 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
>>
>>> And he's yet another witness naming only one direction, eh Anthony? ;-)
>>
>> He also said the TSBD.
>
> In his WC testimony? Where? Quote it verbatim.
>
I didn't say testimony. You have this bad habit of assuming. You do know
> In article <50654a19$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/27/2012 11:24 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
>>
>>> And he's yet another witness naming only one direction, eh Anthony? ;-)
>>
>> He also said the TSBD.
>
> In his WC testimony? Where? Quote it verbatim.
>
what happens when you ASSuME don't you? If not, ask Benny Hill.
John Reagor King
Oct 6, 2012, 4:49:56 PM10/6/12
to
In article <5066881b$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
up by Z225 when I have never once said anything even remotely like that.
And you still haven't admitted your obvious mistake. All you've done is
quote a sentence of mine in which I *didn't* say that.
Why do you so often claim other posters said things they never said,
Anthony? Why do you then make it many times worse by refusing to admit
you made a mistake even after we point it out to you? What possible
constructive purpose does this serve in discussing the JFK assassination?
Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I didn't say testimony. You have this bad habit of assuming. You do know
Pot/kettle. You *assumed* that I had said that JFK already had his fists
> I didn't say testimony. You have this bad habit of assuming. You do know
up by Z225 when I have never once said anything even remotely like that.
And you still haven't admitted your obvious mistake. All you've done is
quote a sentence of mine in which I *didn't* say that.
Why do you so often claim other posters said things they never said,
Anthony? Why do you then make it many times worse by refusing to admit
you made a mistake even after we point it out to you? What possible
constructive purpose does this serve in discussing the JFK assassination?
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