O'Reilly's Book

[Squinty Magoo]

Anyone have anything to report on Bill O'Reilly's new book on the
assassination?

[John McAdams]

On 2 Oct 2012 16:20:49 -0400, Squinty Magoo <magoos...@msn.com>
wrote:

>Anyone have anything to report on Bill O'Reilly's new book on the
>assassination?
>

There is some information here:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/01/bill-oreilly-jfk-assassination/1591991/

.John

--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[doctorw]

On Oct 2, 4:22 pm, john.mcad...@marquette.edu (John McAdams) wrote:
> On 2 Oct 2012 16:20:49 -0400, Squinty Magoo <magooslen...@msn.com>

> wrote:
>
> >Anyone have anything to report on Bill O'Reilly's new book on the
> >assassination?
>
> There is some information here:
>

> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/01/bill-oreilly-jfk-...

>
> .John
>
> --
> The Kennedy Assassination Home Pagehttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

O'Reilly has already, specifically, stated on camera that he knows
that there were several persons who were associated with or around
Oswald, who, because they were associated with Oswald, leaves O'Reilly
publicly admitting that not all conspiracy questions have been
answered.

When asked, he, specifically, cited George DeMohrenschildt, and that
as a Dallas WFAA-TV reporter, O'Reilly claimed that he (O'Reilly) was
at (or traveling to) DeMohrenschildt's home when DeMohrenschildt was
found dead.

It will also be very interesting (among many key details) to read if
O'Reilly even talks about DP witnesses smelling GK gun smoke on/near
the GK, and, the "agents" encountered inside DP before 12:55 PM, and,
specifically, "agents", DPD police encountered on/near the GK:
beforehand, and, in the immediate aftermath seconds/minutes after the
shots.

[doctorw]

On Oct 2, 4:20 pm, Squinty Magoo <magooslen...@msn.com> wrote:
> Anyone have anything to report on Bill O'Reilly's new book on the
> assassination?

There is a long, expandable book excerpt at the following link, that
leads up to JFK's entrance into DP. If this is how the book reads,
O'Reilly has (deliberately?!!?) left many considerations out!

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/49181062/ns/today-books/#.UGwFc5jA-So

[doctorw]

Dr. McAdams, did O'Reilly contact you about using your website
postings and/or book writings, in his book?

[John McAdams]

On 3 Oct 2012 15:50:58 -0400, doctorw <PSA...@aol.com> wrote:

>Dr. McAdams, did O'Reilly contact you about using your website
>postings and/or book writings, in his book?
>

No. Of course, they wouldn't have to.

[Research]

"doctorw" <PSA...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a287cdfe-d61d-40d0...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

Well had the shots really cmae from the 6th floor, wouldn't the police be
able to smell smoke when they arrived there just a few minutes later? I
don't remember ANY police ever commenting that they smell smoke on the 6th
floor?

[David Von Pein]

FRANCOIS CARLIER SAID:

Barry Krusch focused for long moments on the idea that the sniper's
nest (which provided the assassin a perfect place to hide from view)
was not arranged by Lee Oswald but by other people in the course of
their work.
So what ?
Who cares ?
What matters is that there was indeed some book cartons that provided
the assassin a place to hide. That Oswald arranged the boxes himself
or that he took advantage of the boxes that were already there, or
that, maybe, he arranged the boxes that were already there, does not
matter a bit.
It proves nothing either way.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I agree, Francois.

And, in fact, when you think about Mr. Krusch's comments about the
boxes being moved by other Depository employees, instead of being
moved into position by Oswald himself, it really kind of destroys
another longstanding conspiracy theory: The one that has CTers
claiming that Oswald just didn't have enough time to move around all
those boxes to form his Sniper's Nest (or that he would surely have
been seen by someone when he went about the seemingly laborious task
of lugging around the boxes in building his "Nest").

But via the scenario purported by Barry Krusch in his Amazon.com
review for Bill O'Reilly's book "Killing Kennedy", which is indeed, as
Barry correctly pointed out, also advanced by the Warren Commission's
David W. Belin in Belin's 1973 book "November 22, 1963: You Are The
Jury" (Pages 145-146), it means that the construction of the Sniper's
Nest wouldn't have required extensive time and effort on Oswald's part
at all. He could have merely put the finishing touches on the outer
Nest "shield" and then moved a few additional boxes to the inside of
the "Nest" for his rifle rest and his "chair" box to sit on. Not much
time would be needed there at all.

So it seems to me that Barry Krusch has, in effect, helped the lone-
assassin cause by bringing up David Belin's observation concerning the
other TSBD employees inadvertently constructing most of the Sniper's
Nest (which is something in Belin's excellent 1973 book that I had
forgotten about completely, even though I've had that book for six
years).

So, thanks Barry. I'm glad you pointed out the fact that the
construction of Oswald's sniper's lair was, for the most part, very
likely not even Oswald's own work. Hence, another conspiracy theory
about how Oswald couldn't possibly have constructed that Sniper's Nest
by himself (without being seen) goes sliding down the drain.

--------

Addendum:

An excerpt from my "Oswald Timeline" series of articles (relating to
the topic of the Sniper's Nest boxes):

"It's also possible that, as Oswald mulled over potential
shooting locations, he realized that a goodly number of boxes were
already down on the east end of the 6th Floor, which would make
constructing a makeshift "Nest" all the easier for him. .... Oswald
(with his rifle and the paper bag) moves to the east end of the sixth
floor, where Oswald works on constructing his Sniper's Nest. Now, some
of these boxes might have been pretty close to the SN window
already...which, as I mentioned, could have been a partial factor in
Oswald choosing that southeast corner window to begin with. So,
perhaps the building of the Nest wasn't as difficult or as time-
consuming as some people seem to think it had to be. I really have no
idea how long it would have taken Oswald to create his makeshift
Sniper's Nest of book cartons. And nobody else knows for sure either.
This is one of the several "unknowables" surrounding this case. But
the sum total of "Oswald Was There" evidence tells me that Lee Oswald
(alone) DID construct that Sniper's Nest at some point prior to Bonnie
Ray Williams arriving back up on that sixth floor (or, at least Oz had
ENOUGH of the Nest constructed so that he was able to hide behind a
wall of partially-constructed boxes during Williams' brief 5-to-12-
minute stay up on that floor)." -- DVP; April 2007

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/oswald-timeline-part-1.html

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/10/killing-kennedy-by-bill-oreilly.html

[claviger]

Research,

> Well had the shots really cmae from the 6th floor, wouldn't the police
> be able to smell smoke when they arrived there just a few minutes later?
> I don't remember ANY police ever commenting that they smell smoke on the
> 6th floor?

First, the barrel extended out the window into a brisk wind blowing from
due West, so the crosswind would carry the burnt gunpowder residue away in
the direction of the Dal Tex building. If the sniper had any on his
clothing he took it with him to the lunchroom. He placed his rifle on the
other side of the room next to the stairwell.

Someone claimed DPD Smith smelled gunpowder but never gave a cite.
Witnesses in the motorcade smelled gunpowder, which indicates someone may
have fired a weapon at street level.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/5/2012 10:36 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/10/killing-kennedy-by-bill-oreilly.html
>


And I thought it was going to be a confession by Billo!
Have you seen the new book on the Lincoln assassination?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/5/2012 10:36 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
>

And if the only additional boxes were added by the DPD when they tried
to reconstruct the crime scene, it would not have taken any time for the
shooter. If you take the time to look at the other photos of the boxes
stacked on the sixth floor near the windows or even other floors, almost
any other window would have been comparable to the sniper's nest without
any need for more boxes.
And maybe it was Givens who built up the barricade to hide out when he
was smoking up there and goofing off.
Why did Givens say that he had to go back up to the sixth floor to get
his jacket and cigarettes if it was only used for dead storage?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/4/2012 11:37 PM, Research wrote:
> "doctorw" <PSA...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a287cdfe-d61d-40d0...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 2, 4:22 pm, john.mcad...@marquette.edu (John McAdams) wrote:
>> On 2 Oct 2012 16:20:49 -0400, Squinty Magoo <magooslen...@msn.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have anything to report on Bill O'Reilly's new book on the
>>> assassination?
>>
>> There is some information here:
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/01/bill-oreilly-jfk-...
>>
>> .John
>>
>> --
>> The Kennedy Assassination Home Pagehttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>
>
> O'Reilly has already, specifically, stated on camera that he knows that
> there were several persons who were associated with or around Oswald, who,
> because they were associated with Oswald, leaves O'Reilly publicly
> admitting that not all conspiracy questions have been answered.
>
> When asked, he, specifically, cited George DeMohrenschildt, and that as a
> Dallas WFAA-TV reporter, O'Reilly claimed that he (O'Reilly) was at (or
> traveling to) DeMohrenschildt's home when DeMohrenschildt was found dead.
>

And his hands were never tested for gunpowder residue.

> It will also be very interesting (among many key details) to read if
> O'Reilly even talks about DP witnesses smelling GK gun smoke on/near the
> GK, and, the "agents" encountered inside DP before 12:55 PM, and,
> specifically, "agents", DPD police encountered on/near the GK: beforehand,
> and, in the immediate aftermath seconds/minutes after the shots.
>
> Well had the shots really cmae from the 6th floor, wouldn't the police be
> able to smell smoke when they arrived there just a few minutes later? I
> don't remember ANY police ever commenting that they smell smoke on the 6th
> floor?
>

No, and the acoustical evidence pinpoints exactly where on the sixth
floor three shots were fired.

>
>
>

[David Von Pein]

TONY MARSH SAID:

Why did Givens say that he had to go back up to the sixth floor to get
his jacket and cigarettes if it was only used for dead storage?

DVP SAYS:

Huh? What kind of off-the-wall conspiracy plot are you trying to imply
here?

Givens had been working on the sixth floor that morning, and he left his
jacket/cigs on that floor after he descended for lunch. Hence, the reason
he needed to go back up to the 6th floor was because THAT'S WHERE THOSE
THINGS WERE.

(Duh.)

"Dead storage"???

(Time for another "Huh??", it would appear.)

[Anthony Marsh]

Still clueless, eh DVP?

Jack C. Cason, president of the depository, said the sixth floor was
used solely as a "dead storage" area.
Cason, who left the scene about 30 minutes before the president's
caravan rode down Main Street a block away, said the firm often had
difficulty finding employees who had fallen asleep amidst the stacks of
books.

[Research]

"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:506f4e98$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...

You can't prove that. The cone you refer to includes most of the 6th floor
the 7th floor and half of the Dal-tex building. Which in itself does
nothing to prove the shots came from the 6th floor.

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Jack C. Cason, president of the depository, said the sixth floor was
used solely as a "dead storage" area. Cason, who left the scene about 30
minutes before the president's caravan rode down Main Street a block away,
said the firm often had difficulty finding employees who had fallen asleep
amidst the stacks of books." <<<

Well, that might very well be the case, Tony, but your bringing up the
"dead storage" topic is totally irrelevant here, because even if the
sixth floor was for only "dead storage" -- so what? We still would
have Givens leaving his jacket and cancer sticks on the sixth floor on
the morning of Nov. 22, even if Givens WAS up there just sleeping or
goofing off or smoking--which would have made it perfectly logical for
him to have left his cigarettes up on that floor, wouldn't it?

Plus, we also know that Givens was part of the floor-repairing crew on
the 6th floor on Nov. 22, which makes your previous "dead storage"
argument all the more irrelevant, since even if that floor was only a
"dead" one, we know that activity was certainly going on on that
particular floor on Nov. 22 -- a new plywood floor was being put down.
And Givens was helping to do that work that day.

Question---

Why are so many conspiracy theorists seemingly so anxious to paint
Charles D. Givens as some kind of liar, plotter, or conspirator?

Just....why?

(I already know the answer, of course. But it's a rhetorical kind of
thing that needed to be asked anyway. I'm sure you understand.)

[David Von Pein]

"DEAD STORAGE" ADDENDUM:

Either Jack Cason didn't know what the hell he was talking about or
(more likely) his use of the term "dead storage" could more aptly be
changed to "bulk stock", as Depository Superintendent Roy Truly
explained in detail in his Warren Commission testimony:


ROY TRULY -- "On the first floor we have bin stock, shelf stock, we
fill a lot of small orders from. And then in the basement the same.
The fifth and the sixth floor, and part of the seventh floor is
overflow stock. It is reserve stock. But the boys have to go to those
floors all during the day to pick up stock and bring it to the first
floor in order to process and complete the orders for the checker."

ALLEN DULLES -- "What would reserve stock mean?"

MR. TRULY -- "Actually it is not reserve stock--it is not surplus
either. It is part of our stock. But we can carry a limited amount
only on the first floor where we do our shipping. So they may get an
order for a hundred copies of a certain book and there may only be 10
or 15 or 20 on the shelf on the first floor. They will have to go
upstairs and get a carton or two. And they replenish the first floor
stock from that. And many of our freight orders are filled entirely
from our reserve stock. And they bring them to the first floor. All
orders reach the first floor, where they are checked and processed and
packed and shipped from that floor."

DAVID BELIN -- "Where, generally, are Scott, Foresman books kept?"

MR. TRULY -- "On the first floor and the sixth floor. We have a large
quantity of their books on the sixth floor."

MR. BELIN -- "And this is the area where Lee Harvey Oswald worked?"

MR. TRULY -- "That is right. .... He had occasion to go to the sixth
floor quite a number of times every day, each day, after books."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm


Therefore, the stock on the sixth floor wasn't "dead" at all, Tony. It
was being accessed every day (per Roy S. Truly's WC testimony).

[John Reagor King]

In article <506fdc28$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,

Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Jack C. Cason, president of the depository, said the sixth floor was
> used solely as a "dead storage" area.

David has just blown you out of the water on that by quoting Roy Truly
saying that stock was brought down from the 6th floor on a regular basis.

Another mistake by you.

And you still won't admit that I never once said that JFK already had
his fists up by Z225.

Yet another mistake.

How many others have you made about the JFK assassination that we don't
yet know about? Probably many. You often claim here that other posters
have said things they never said, and then make it even worse by
refusing to admit your mistakes even after they are pointed out to you.
Why should any of us trust anything you say on any topic unless it can
be independently verified beyond your word?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/6/2012 9:09 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> "DEAD STORAGE" ADDENDUM:
>
> Either Jack Cason didn't know what the hell he was talking about or
> (more likely) his use of the term "dead storage" could more aptly be
> changed to "bulk stock", as Depository Superintendent Roy Truly
> explained in detail in his Warren Commission testimony:
>

Yeah, he was only the president of the TSBD and worked there every day.

>
> ROY TRULY -- "On the first floor we have bin stock, shelf stock, we
> fill a lot of small orders from. And then in the basement the same.
> The fifth and the sixth floor, and part of the seventh floor is
> overflow stock. It is reserve stock. But the boys have to go to those
> floors all during the day to pick up stock and bring it to the first
> floor in order to process and complete the orders for the checker."
>
> ALLEN DULLES -- "What would reserve stock mean?"
>
> MR. TRULY -- "Actually it is not reserve stock--it is not surplus
> either. It is part of our stock. But we can carry a limited amount
> only on the first floor where we do our shipping. So they may get an
> order for a hundred copies of a certain book and there may only be 10
> or 15 or 20 on the shelf on the first floor. They will have to go
> upstairs and get a carton or two. And they replenish the first floor
> stock from that. And many of our freight orders are filled entirely
> from our reserve stock. And they bring them to the first floor. All
> orders reach the first floor, where they are checked and processed and
> packed and shipped from that floor."
>

That's what dead storage means. It is like the difference between retail
and warehouse.

> DAVID BELIN -- "Where, generally, are Scott, Foresman books kept?"
>
> MR. TRULY -- "On the first floor and the sixth floor. We have a large
> quantity of their books on the sixth floor."
>
> MR. BELIN -- "And this is the area where Lee Harvey Oswald worked?"
>
> MR. TRULY -- "That is right. .... He had occasion to go to the sixth
> floor quite a number of times every day, each day, after books."
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm
>

Did Givens? Why didn't Belin ask the same questions about Givens? Because
he was acting as a prosecutor and you know the rule for a prosecutor:
never ask a witness and question and never ask a question which could
produce reasonable doubt.

>
> Therefore, the stock on the sixth floor wasn't "dead" at all, Tony. It
> was being accessed every day (per Roy S. Truly's WC testimony).
>

Are you in the book trade? No. Then how would you know anything about it?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/6/2012 9:09 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
>>>> "Jack C. Cason, president of the depository, said the sixth floor was
> used solely as a "dead storage" area. Cason, who left the scene about 30
> minutes before the president's caravan rode down Main Street a block away,
> said the firm often had difficulty finding employees who had fallen asleep
> amidst the stacks of books." <<<
>
> Well, that might very well be the case, Tony, but your bringing up the
> "dead storage" topic is totally irrelevant here, because even if the
> sixth floor was for only "dead storage" -- so what? We still would

Naughty, naughty. The rest of the cover-up is depending on you to be firm,
not to give in to the kooks. Now you waffle and say "even if." Next week
it will be "so what if." And your backers will start to lose confidence in
you.

> have Givens leaving his jacket and cancer sticks on the sixth floor on
> the morning of Nov. 22, even if Givens WAS up there just sleeping or
> goofing off or smoking--which would have made it perfectly logical for
> him to have left his cigarettes up on that floor, wouldn't it?
>

Of course it would, but if I had said that you would have said, "How
dare you?"

> Plus, we also know that Givens was part of the floor-repairing crew on
> the 6th floor on Nov. 22, which makes your previous "dead storage"
> argument all the more irrelevant, since even if that floor was only a
> "dead" one, we know that activity was certainly going on on that
> particular floor on Nov. 22 -- a new plywood floor was being put down.
> And Givens was helping to do that work that day.
>

Make that "Givens was SUPPOSED to be helping to do that work that day."

> Question---
>
> Why are so many conspiracy theorists seemingly so anxious to paint
> Charles D. Givens as some kind of liar, plotter, or conspirator?
>
> Just....why?
>

Why did the DPD put out an APB on him?
Why did one of the cops say that Givens would change his story for money?
Why did Givens give two different accounts of when Oswald came into the
TSBD and when he saw him on the second floor?
Why is Givens the only TSBD worker who said he saw Oswald on the sixth
floor just before the shooting?
It sounds like the cops went witness shopping and found a felon that
they could blackmail into convicting their suspect.

> (I already know the answer, of course. But it's a rhetorical kind of
> thing that needed to be asked anyway. I'm sure you understand.)
>

Now to spring the trap since you walked into it so easily.
Why would ANY assassin choose such a high traffic area for his sniper's
nest when hundreds of workers were coming and going every minute and
floor laying crews were busy laying down plywood exactly where he wanted
to set up his sniper's nest?

[Anthony Marsh]

No, you are not paying attention. It is the wound trajectory which
produces a cone. The acoustical evidence produces a circle. Which in this
case is centered in the sniper's nest. More refined testing limits that
circle to within a few inches at a spot about 1-1/2 feet back from the
window.

[David Von Pein]

TONY MARSH SAID:

Are you in the book trade? No. Then how would you know anything about
it?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I don't. But Roy Truly does. (Are you in the book trade, Anthony?)

And I guess the following comment by Truly ONLY applies to Lee H.
Oswald, eh Tony? It doesn't apply to Charles Givens at all (even
though Charlie was one of these "boys" too), right Tony?.....

ROY TRULY -- "The fifth and the sixth floor, and part of the seventh

floor is overflow stock. It is reserve stock. But the boys have to go
to those floors all during the day to pick up stock and bring it to
the first floor in order to process and complete the orders for the
checker."

TONY MARSH, UNBELIEVABLY, ASKED:

Why would ANY assassin choose such a high traffic area for his
sniper's nest when hundreds of workers were coming and going every
minute and floor laying crews were busy laying down plywood exactly
where he wanted to set up his sniper's nest?

DVP SAID:

Hundreds of workers? Note Marsh's severe overstatement there. He's
acting as if the 6th floor was Grand Central or Yankee Stadium during
the World Series.

Now to spring the trap for Tony (since he stepped into it so nicely):

Why would ANY "Let's Frame Oswald" plotters choose the busy sixth
floor on 11/22/63 for their "patsy" ruse, which meant that SOMEBODY
FROM THE PATSY TEAM must have been up on that busy floor, with the
floor-laying crew, in order to plant all of the LHO-incriminating
evidence all over the sixth floor.

How did every member of the patsy crew manage to cloak themselves and
turn invisible on the morning of November 22, Tony? Any ideas? Or
would you prefer to remain wishy-washy...as always?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/7/2012 5:54 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
> In article <506fdc28$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Jack C. Cason, president of the depository, said the sixth floor was
>> used solely as a "dead storage" area.
>
> David has just blown you out of the water on that by quoting Roy Truly
> saying that stock was brought down from the 6th floor on a regular basis.
>

Guess you don't know what he meant by dead stock. Retail stores bring
stock down regularly from the warehouse.

[John Reagor King]

In article <5071d79f$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,

Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Are you in the book trade? No. Then how would you know anything about it?

Oh, he has to actually be in the book trade to still know certain relevant
things? Nonsense. I've already demolished the myth, in reply to you
even, that one just absolutely *has* to be an "expert" in a particular
field to still talk knowledgeably about certain individual aspects of that
field. Remember your little example of a violin virtuoso in that other
thread? You acted as if, unless one was a virtuoso on that instrument,
one could not possibly talk knowledgeably about any aspect of that
instrument whatsoever. Remember how in my reply I absolutely slammed you
on that? I said that I cannot play the violin well at all, but I still
told you all sorts of facts about the violin which are most definitely
true. Remember how you went abruptly silent on that issue right after I
posted that? Oh, and don't try to wriggle out of it now by saying, oh,
that's not what you meant, etc.

Btw, why are you still afraid to plainly admit that you were wrong when
you falsely claimed that I said JFK already had his fists up by Z225?
What's so difficult Anthony, about just typing and posting a sentence
something like this?

"You're right, John, I was mistaken when I claimed that you said that JFK
already had his fists up by Z225, as I have realized since that you have
never said that."

I already admitted several days ago that I was wrong when I said Mary
Woodward meant the fence. And you saw me admit that I was wrong about
there having been no broadcast about the throat wound prior to the
beginning of the autopsy when both you and John Canal posted evidence to
the contrary. Why can't you be just as willing to admit your own
mistakes?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/8/2012 5:20 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> TONY MARSH SAID:
>
> Are you in the book trade? No. Then how would you know anything about
> it?
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> I don't. But Roy Truly does. (Are you in the book trade, Anthony?)
>

One of my bridge partners was and knew Byrd personally.

> And I guess the following comment by Truly ONLY applies to Lee H.
> Oswald, eh Tony? It doesn't apply to Charles Givens at all (even
> though Charlie was one of these "boys" too), right Tony?.....
>
> ROY TRULY -- "The fifth and the sixth floor, and part of the seventh
> floor is overflow stock. It is reserve stock. But the boys have to go
> to those floors all during the day to pick up stock and bring it to
> the first floor in order to process and complete the orders for the
> checker."
>
>
> TONY MARSH, UNBELIEVABLY, ASKED:
>
> Why would ANY assassin choose such a high traffic area for his
> sniper's nest when hundreds of workers were coming and going every
> minute and floor laying crews were busy laying down plywood exactly
> where he wanted to set up his sniper's nest?
>
> DVP SAID:
>
> Hundreds of workers? Note Marsh's severe overstatement there. He's
> acting as if the 6th floor was Grand Central or Yankee Stadium during
> the World Series.
>

That's the effect I was looking for. It's called Hyperbole.

> Now to spring the trap for Tony (since he stepped into it so nicely):
>
> Why would ANY "Let's Frame Oswald" plotters choose the busy sixth
> floor on 11/22/63 for their "patsy" ruse, which meant that SOMEBODY
> FROM THE PATSY TEAM must have been up on that busy floor, with the
> floor-laying crew, in order to plant all of the LHO-incriminating
> evidence all over the sixth floor.
>

Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of the
shooting? A professional team would have spotters and lookouts to make
sure they wouldn't be disturbed.

> How did every member of the patsy crew manage to cloak themselves and
> turn invisible on the morning of November 22, Tony? Any ideas? Or
> would you prefer to remain wishy-washy...as always?
>

How did the guy who shot Chen manage to cloak himself and stay invisible?
How did the guy who shot and killed Martin Luther King Jr. stay
invisible? You make up ridiculous objections instead of looking at other
real life cases and using some common sense.

[David Von Pein]

TONY MARSH SAID:

>>> "Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting? A professional team would have spotters and lookouts to make sure they wouldn't be disturbed." <<<

DVP:

You're the one who said there were "hundreds" of workers on the sixth
floor, not me. (Hyperbolic though your comment might have been.)

It would have been hard to hide from "hundreds" of guys, wouldn't
it? :-)

And Tony knows full well that no strangers were seen by any TSBD
workers on the upper floors of the building on Nov. 22. The only
stranger noticed by anybody was the old geezer who used the restroom
on the first floor and was seen leaving in a car shortly thereafter.

I can only wonder how a team of professional gunmen and "spotters"
worked their way, unnoticed, up to the 6th floor in order to start
playing their "Let's Frame Oswald As The Patsy" game?

And, in hindsight, you've also got to wonder WHY there was any need at
all for anybody to go up to the sixth floor to plant any evidence at
around noontime on 11/22/63? Since, amazingly, all of the Dallas cops,
plus the FBI (and later the Warren Commission too) apparently wanted
to FRAME THE VERY SAME PATSY NAMED OSWALD, the "spotters" and gunmen
weren't even needed. They could just let the DPD start planting the
shells and the gun and the paper bag. What purpose, therefore, did the
pre-assassination plotters serve at all, particularly from Harold
Weisberg's idiotic "No Shots Came From The Sixth Floor" point-of-
view?:

"I have no reason to believe that any of the shooting came from
the sixth floor." -- H. Weisberg

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/10/harold-weisberg.html

Food for (silly) CT thought....isn't it Tony?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/9/2012 9:51 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> TONY MARSH SAID:
>

>>>> "Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of
the shooting? A professional team would have spotters and lookouts to make
sure they wouldn't be disturbed." <<<

>
> DVP:
>
> You're the one who said there were "hundreds" of workers on the sixth
> floor, not me. (Hyperbolic though your comment might have been.)
>
> It would have been hard to hide from "hundreds" of guys, wouldn't
> it? :-)
>
> And Tony knows full well that no strangers were seen by any TSBD

And DVP knows full well that no strangers were seen in the rooming house
from which James Earl Ray shot MLK. Your phony claim that assassins are
always seen and identified out in the open is childish.

> workers on the upper floors of the building on Nov. 22. The only
> stranger noticed by anybody was the old geezer who used the restroom
> on the first floor and was seen leaving in a car shortly thereafter.
>

Was that the CIA officer who walked with a limp and lived on a farm and
made his own cheese from his own goats?
Nice of him to drop off the rifle for the hit team.

> I can only wonder how a team of professional gunmen and "spotters"
> worked their way, unnoticed, up to the 6th floor in order to start
> playing their "Let's Frame Oswald As The Patsy" game?
>

Go ahead and wonder because you have never studied any other
assassinations. I would suggest that you study some of the very
successful assassinations carried out by Mossad. Watch the security
tapes from the hotel cameras. Why aren't they in jail?


If you think Oswald was the shooter, then how did he walk past all those
people on the stairs unnoticed? Why did Baker let him go?

> And, in hindsight, you've also got to wonder WHY there was any need at
> all for anybody to go up to the sixth floor to plant any evidence at
> around noontime on 11/22/63? Since, amazingly, all of the Dallas cops,

I didn't say to plant evidence. Take your straw men elsewhere.

> plus the FBI (and later the Warren Commission too) apparently wanted
> to FRAME THE VERY SAME PATSY NAMED OSWALD, the "spotters" and gunmen
> weren't even needed. They could just let the DPD start planting the

I have never added any FBI agents or DPD cops to the conspiracy.
The CIA did not use the FBI or local cops for their plots.
The CIA officers did not include the local cops or the FBI in their
breakin at the Watergate hotel. They worked directly for the President.

> shells and the gun and the paper bag. What purpose, therefore, did the

What paper bag? You mean the one that Fritz must have been standing in
in the corner without realizing it? Fritz the Klutz. Walks through a
bloody crime scene and gets the blood all over his shoes and then walks
over to the suspect's house leaving a trail of blood?

> pre-assassination plotters serve at all, particularly from Harold
> Weisberg's idiotic "No Shots Came From The Sixth Floor" point-of-
> view?:
>

Not my problem, man. The acoustical evidence proves that three shots
were fired from the sniper's nest. We don't need your damn stinkin straw
man arguments.

> "I have no reason to believe that any of the shooting came from
> the sixth floor." -- H. Weisberg
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/10/harold-weisberg.html
>
> Food for (silly) CT thought....isn't it Tony?
>

No.

[John Reagor King]

In article <5071fcb6$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,

Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Guess you don't know what he meant by dead stock. Retail stores bring

Guess you don't know how to admit you were wrong when you said a week
ago that I had said that JFK already had his hands up by Z225, when in
fact you have never once seen me say that.

[John Reagor King]

In article <50734ba4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,

Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 10/8/2012 5:20 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> > Now to spring the trap for Tony (since he stepped into it so nicely):
> >
> > Why would ANY "Let's Frame Oswald" plotters choose the busy sixth
> > floor on 11/22/63 for their "patsy" ruse, which meant that SOMEBODY
> > FROM THE PATSY TEAM must have been up on that busy floor, with the
> > floor-laying crew, in order to plant all of the LHO-incriminating
> > evidence all over the sixth floor.
>
> Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of the
> shooting?

I'd like to know that too, Tony, since David *didn't* say that in his
paragraph above that you yourself quoted. He *instead* talked about
supposed plotters planting evidence incriminating Oswald. He never said
anything about them doing so at the time of the shooting.

Are you yet again using your famous strawman tactic of acting as if
another poster said something they never said?

Why yes, I think you are. ;-)

Just like with me, one week ago today, you stooped to the level of
trying to win an argument with me by making up something I never once
said, and claiming that I said it:

"You have JFK"s fists up by Z-225 and then the bullet hitting Connally
at Z-226."

For the past seven days since you have ruined your credibility even
further by refusing to admit that I never made either of those claims.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/9/2012 9:03 PM, John Reagor King wrote:
> In article <50734ba4$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/8/2012 5:20 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>>
>>> Now to spring the trap for Tony (since he stepped into it so nicely):
>>>
>>> Why would ANY "Let's Frame Oswald" plotters choose the busy sixth
>>> floor on 11/22/63 for their "patsy" ruse, which meant that SOMEBODY
>>> FROM THE PATSY TEAM must have been up on that busy floor, with the
>>> floor-laying crew, in order to plant all of the LHO-incriminating
>>> evidence all over the sixth floor.
>>
>> Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of the
>> shooting?
>
> I'd like to know that too, Tony, since David *didn't* say that in his
> paragraph above that you yourself quoted. He *instead* talked about
> supposed plotters planting evidence incriminating Oswald. He never said
> anything about them doing so at the time of the shooting.
>

It's easy to win an argument when you snip out the context and quote
someone out of context. That may be your ONLY weapon.

> Are you yet again using your famous strawman tactic of acting as if
> another poster said something they never said?
>

English please. If I say, "Who said" that does not mean "You said."
His phrasing made it sound like the floor laying crew would be up on the
sixth floor during the assassination to disrupt the assassination team.

[John Reagor King]

In article
<f3796167-f08b-415b...@m5g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,

David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:

> TONY MARSH SAID:
>
> >>> "Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of the
> >>> shooting? A professional team would have spotters and lookouts to make
> >>> sure they wouldn't be disturbed." <<<
>
> DVP:
>
> You're the one who said there were "hundreds" of workers on the sixth
> floor, not me. (Hyperbolic though your comment might have been.)
>
> It would have been hard to hide from "hundreds" of guys, wouldn't
> it? :-)

Oh but David, don't you see? All of them except for the known TSBD
employees were shooters. We've had it wrong all this time. There weren't
three shots fired at the motorcade. There were three-HUNDRED shots fired
at the motorcade. The first 100 shots were all fired simultaneously after
the limo turned the corner. No wonder it was so loud and no wonder all
those echoes fooled so many people into believing those shots came from
the knoll and the underpass and the railroad yards and the Dal-Tex and so
forth. It's a wonder only Tague was hit, but that's because although
their coordination was superb, their aim was atrocious. But with more
superb superhuman coordination the second group of 100 shooters (yes, they
did it as sort of a tag team) fired all their rifles with pinpoint
accuracy at exactly Z222. But while all these guys were fabulous in their
timing, they weren't so snazzy with their aim, as the vast majority of
them couldn't hit a donkey at ten feet, and only two of them hit anyone in
the limo; one shooter hit JFK and the other hit JBC. So this clears it up
at long last after more than 48 years: there was no freakin' single
bullet. Then of course the last 100 shooters took their places at the
windows, and once again, almost as if it had been preordained by Ye Powers
That Be, they all fired at exactly Z312. But sadly, 98 of them were even
worse shots than the first and second groups. But two of them found their
mark. Well, one on purpose and one accidentally. One of these two, whom
we shall call John, got JFK directly in the back of the head. The other,
whom we shall call Anthony, aimed a tad high and missed JFK...but the
bullet ricocheted off the inside of the windshield (hence the dent in the
photos) and hit the front of JFK's head.

Now as to why so few witnesses noticed 300 shooters, that's simply because
quite a few of the idjits fired out of the rear windows of the TSBD toward
the parking lot. They were a bit confused as to which side of the
building their target would be on. And the regular TSBD employees didn't
mention all these shooters on the 6th floor because who's gonna tattle on
300 folks with rifles pointing atcha?

Oh sorry, C&C warning.

> And Tony knows full well that no strangers were seen by any TSBD
> workers on the upper floors of the building on Nov. 22. The only
> stranger noticed by anybody was the old geezer who used the restroom
> on the first floor and was seen leaving in a car shortly thereafter.
>
> I can only wonder how a team of professional gunmen and "spotters"
> worked their way, unnoticed, up to the 6th floor in order to start
> playing their "Let's Frame Oswald As The Patsy" game?

Especially 300 of them. But you know, that's also why Victoria Adams et
al didn't report them as thundering down the back stairs after the
shooting because, again, who's gonna cause any trouble with 300 men and
women (yes, there were some female shooters too; this is a new revelation
from a document that was just declassified earlier today by the CIA, and a
scan of it was sent to me today as an email attachment by one of my fellow
spooks) who all have rifles waving around?

The final revelation in this document is how they all got out of the
building unnoticed by the crowd outside. It's really quite simple: they
had already dug a hole in the first floor, and they waited for all the
bystanders to run over to the grassy knoll and then they just snuck out
through the sewer.

All 300 of them.

They later emerged in Oak Cliff, but by that time their patsy had already
accidentally shot an officer.

Well, you can't expect everything to have gone right, can you?

[John Reagor King]

In article <507462ff$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,

Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Was that the CIA officer who walked with a limp and lived on a farm and
> made his own cheese from his own goats?
> Nice of him to drop off the rifle for the hit team.

Ooo, was that Ed Dolan?

[Anthony Marsh]

No, not in 1963. Dolan only had trouble walking many years later, the
mid 1990s. You have no possible way to figure out which guy I mean.
Other posters got the inside joke immediately.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 10/10/2012 9:46 PM, John Reagor King wrote:

> In article
> <f3796167-f08b-415b...@m5g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
> David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> TONY MARSH SAID:
>>
>>>>> "Who said the floor-laying crew was on the sixth floor at the time of the
>>>>> shooting? A professional team would have spotters and lookouts to make
>>>>> sure they wouldn't be disturbed." <<<
>>
>> DVP:
>>
>> You're the one who said there were "hundreds" of workers on the sixth
>> floor, not me. (Hyperbolic though your comment might have been.)
>>
>> It would have been hard to hide from "hundreds" of guys, wouldn't
>> it? :-)
>
> Oh but David, don't you see? All of them except for the known TSBD
> employees were shooters. We've had it wrong all this time. There weren't

Now wait a minute. Didn't some kook have a theory that the real shooter
was a TSBD employee?
I also heard a theory that several other TSBD employees were also
shooters. Like a company hit.

> three shots fired at the motorcade. There were three-HUNDRED shots fired
> at the motorcade. The first 100 shots were all fired simultaneously after
> the limo turned the corner. No wonder it was so loud and no wonder all

Reductio ad Absurdum.

> those echoes fooled so many people into believing those shots came from
> the knoll and the underpass and the railroad yards and the Dal-Tex and so
> forth. It's a wonder only Tague was hit, but that's because although
> their coordination was superb, their aim was atrocious. But with more

Lifton's theory was that only blanks were fired from the TSBD to make
people think that all the shot came from there, while the real shots came
from the front. How about throwing in some silencers to confuse people?

> superb superhuman coordination the second group of 100 shooters (yes, they
> did it as sort of a tag team) fired all their rifles with pinpoint

And who said it had to be superhuman? Why not automated? Didn't you see
the Bruce Willis remake of The Jackal?

> accuracy at exactly Z222. But while all these guys were fabulous in their

And what exactly is the significance of Z-222? Is that your latest SBT
du jour?

> timing, they weren't so snazzy with their aim, as the vast majority of
> them couldn't hit a donkey at ten feet, and only two of them hit anyone in
> the limo; one shooter hit JFK and the other hit JBC. So this clears it up
> at long last after more than 48 years: there was no freakin' single

That's what the FBI said in its report and the WC said in its internal
memos.

> bullet. Then of course the last 100 shooters took their places at the
> windows, and once again, almost as if it had been preordained by Ye Powers
> That Be, they all fired at exactly Z312. But sadly, 98 of them were even

So, where are all those clouds of smoke from your hundreds of guns?

> worse shots than the first and second groups. But two of them found their
> mark. Well, one on purpose and one accidentally. One of these two, whom

I can't name him here, but there is actually one kook who believes that
JFK was shot in the head accidentally by the SS. Reminds me of that story
by the SS agent at LBJ's ranch who pulled his Tommy Gun on LBJ and almost
pulled the trigger before he recognized him.

> we shall call John, got JFK directly in the back of the head. The other,
> whom we shall call Anthony, aimed a tad high and missed JFK...but the
> bullet ricocheted off the inside of the windshield (hence the dent in the
> photos) and hit the front of JFK's head.
>

There is NO dent in the windshield. What are you on? How expensive is it?

> Now as to why so few witnesses noticed 300 shooters, that's simply because
> quite a few of the idjits fired out of the rear windows of the TSBD toward
> the parking lot. They were a bit confused as to which side of the
> building their target would be on. And the regular TSBD employees didn't
> mention all these shooters on the 6th floor because who's gonna tattle on
> 300 folks with rifles pointing atcha?
>

OH, so that explains why so many innocent bystanders were killed that day.
;]> Maybe their job was to kill all the witnesses, like the Sadat
assassination.

> Oh sorry, C&C warning.
>
>> And Tony knows full well that no strangers were seen by any TSBD
>> workers on the upper floors of the building on Nov. 22. The only
>> stranger noticed by anybody was the old geezer who used the restroom
>> on the first floor and was seen leaving in a car shortly thereafter.
>>
>> I can only wonder how a team of professional gunmen and "spotters"
>> worked their way, unnoticed, up to the 6th floor in order to start
>> playing their "Let's Frame Oswald As The Patsy" game?
>
> Especially 300 of them. But you know, that's also why Victoria Adams et
> al didn't report them as thundering down the back stairs after the
> shooting because, again, who's gonna cause any trouble with 300 men and
> women (yes, there were some female shooters too; this is a new revelation
> from a document that was just declassified earlier today by the CIA, and a
> scan of it was sent to me today as an email attachment by one of my fellow
> spooks) who all have rifles waving around?
>
> The final revelation in this document is how they all got out of the
> building unnoticed by the crowd outside. It's really quite simple: they
> had already dug a hole in the first floor, and they waited for all the
> bystanders to run over to the grassy knoll and then they just snuck out
> through the sewer.
>

Maybe they all pretended to be part of a movie crew as in the new movie
ARGO (based on a true story).

[seansmil...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:20:50 PM UTC-7, Squinty Magoo wrote:
> Anyone have anything to report on Bill O'Reilly's new book on the
>
> assassination?

Funny, seems no one has mentioned that O'Reilly has Oswald standing up as he shot. Neat trick, Ozzie....
dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

Well it was a Magic Bullet. It could go through the window without
breaking the glass. Penn and Teller have done that trick.

[seansmil...@gmail.com]

Well, sort of. But only Penn was in the depository; Teller was on the
Knoll....