Judyth, Lee and Arthur Young/Charles Thomas
Gary Buell
According to the Paul Hoch ratio test "a useful measure of the
plausibility of an allegation could be derived from the percentage of
well-known names. "
Certainly Judyth Baker's story features many of the common names. Also a
few uncommon names and a few new names. One thing I have noticed is that
in the less reliable "stories" about conspiracy, the only parts that can
be verified are the parts that we already new. The new stuff cannot. Let
me propose one new thing in Judyth's tale that possibly could be verified,
if true. On pages 311-312 of the first volume of her book, she mentions a
meeting between a customs agent, Arthur Young, Judyth and Oswald. Young
mentioned to her that he had first met Lee when he was 13. Young had a
distinct German accent and had tattoos on his fingers. Judyth says she
eventually located the family of this man, whose real name was Charles
Thomas. His family confirmed that he had used the alias Arthur Young, and
that he was a former Head of Customs in New York, and also that he had
Mafia connections.
Now this is interesting information and should be able to be confirmed or
verified. This is certainly a new name. Has anyone else attempted to
interview this man's family? Judyth also says that the family gave her
copies of photos of this man from New York, Miami, and Louisiana, only one
of which she publishes in the book. Has anyone seen the other photos?
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"Gary Buell" <gbuel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b2acafd6-0751-421c...@d2g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Barb Junkkarinen
wrote:
A simple google turned this up on Athur Young/Charles Thomas:
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.thomas/5444/mb.ashx?pnt=1
From it, one learns his name, that he used an alias at one time, that
he worked for U.S. Customs, that he spoke German fluently (which does
not necessarily mean he had any sort of German accent); there is no
mention of the mafia or tattoos. There IS mention that he never spoke
about his past and first wife and family ... and there is enough info
there to locate family members.
Also online is this article that appeared in the Dealey Plaza Echo in
2006 ... it is
"Judyth and Lee in New Orleans
John Delane Williams and Kelly Thomas Cousins
With Comments by Judyth Vary Baker"
QUOTE
June 24: Oswald applied for a new passport in New Orleans. He received
the passport the next day. [48] {Note from Judyth: A former Customs
Agent was brought in from Miami, Florida to help expedite Lee Oswald’s
passport. Other passports were also processed in
the same short time period to protect Lee’s passport from close
inspection. I met this former Customs Agent on June 25 on the steps of
the Custom House in New Orleans, and have described him to his living
family members as having a German accent, silvery hair,
and tattoos on his fingers. The man was Charles Thomas, AKA Arthur
Young. Both names were familiar to the members of his family who were
still alive. I recognized his face and saw the tattoos on his fingers
on photos provided to me by his family. They also
had photos of Cubans who were friends of his, in their possession.}
END QUOTE
Here, the man is a FORMER customs agent ... brought in from Miami ...
no mention of New York or him being the head of it. AND ... she says
she saw pictures and has copies of them.
Why don't you take this one on and see if you can verify the mafia,
the tattoos, his being head of customs in NY ... or having ever
lived/worked in New Orleans... or Miami. And anyone in the family ever
having been contacted by Judyth Baker.
This can be checked for confirmation or denial. Of course, team Judyth
should have checked this out long long ago, but if they had ... we
would know it.
I hope you'll go for it ... confirmed or denied it would be another
valuable piece of information.
Bests,
Barb :-)
Gary Buell
> I've seen several of the Arthur Young photos.
>
> Martin
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
For what it's worth:
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.thomas/5444/mb.ashx?pnt=1
"I am searching for any information on my grandfather, Charles Thomas
(?Feb. 10, 1897?). Charles Thomas had a family of four (Joseph, Mary,
Margaret, ???) with his first wife in New York/New Jersey. He worked
for US Customs for 19 years before retiring. He had also been a POW in
WWI.
He married my grandmother, Ada Vilcan, around 1950. My grandmother, of
American Indian Heritage, was his second wife. They had three sons:
Charles Henry, Arthur, and Raymond Thomas.
Charles Thomas was supposed to have been a twin. He spoke German
fluently. The name Arthur Young is said to have been an alias of his.
He never spoke of his past to anyone in the second family. Anyone who
may have any information, PLEASE SHARE !!! I have been hitting brick
wall after brick wall!! HELP!!"
Martin Shackelford
book) show the tattoos, Barb. Judyth mentioned at the time that she had
been in contact with the family, and had received the photos.
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8950r4pl37a3p7aap...@4ax.com...
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@charter.net> wrote:
>The photos provided by his family (one of which was published in the
>book) show the tattoos, Barb. Judyth mentioned at the time that she had
>been in contact with the family, and had received the photos.
judyth mentions lots of things, Martin .. the batting average for them
panning out is dismal.
Barb :-)
Martin Shackelford
one
of your patented flip responses, Barb.
At the time she was seeking to contact the family, Judyth kept us in the
loop,
notified us when she was able to contact them, and sent us copies of the
photos
they provided. Clearly, we're not just talking about a "mention."
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9ud3r45or4fff979d...@4ax.com...
JLeyd...@aol.com
(Top Post, Shackelford style)
I know you're not the guy to ask, Shackelford, as Judyth tied the can to
you some time ago after accusing you and Livingstone of sneaking around
behind her back and sabotaging her book manuscript. But her official
website, maintained by her new guru, Ed Haslam, says her next book, "Me
and Lee," will be published in November by Time Day. Is this what radio
commentator Paul Harvey used to call "The Rest of the Story?" Will this
one (and don't anyone hold his/her breath until they see it advertised on
Amazon) actually contain some evidence that she ever even had a cup of
coffee with LHO? Or will it be just more of the same old nonsense you
people have been peddling for more than eight years?
JGL
> I'm not getting the impression that you read this carefully before giving
> one
> of your patented flip responses, Barb.
> At the time she was seeking to contact the family, Judyth kept us in the
> loop,
> notified us when she was able to contact them, and sent us copies of the
> photos
> they provided. Clearly, we're not just talking about a "mention."
>
> Martin
>
> "Barb Junkkarinen" <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:9ud3r45or4fff979d...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On 6 Mar 2009 16:19:31 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
> > <msha...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >>The photos provided by his family (one of which was published in the
> >>book) show the tattoos, Barb. Judyth mentioned at the time that she had
> >>been in contact with the family, and had received the photos.
>
> > judyth mentions lots of things, Martin .. the batting average for them
> > panning out is dismal.
>
> > Barb :-)
>
> >>Martin
>
> >>"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>news:8950r4pl37a3p7aap...@4ax.com...
> >>> On 4 Mar 2009 22:23:46 -0500, Gary Buell <gbuellst...@yahoo.com>
> >>> Barb :-)- Hide quoted text -
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@charter.net> wrote:
>I'm not getting the impression that you read this carefully before giving
>one
>of your patented flip responses, Barb.
>At the time she was seeking to contact the family, Judyth kept us in the
>loop,
>notified us when she was able to contact them, and sent us copies of the
>photos
>they provided. Clearly, we're not just talking about a "mention."
>
>Martin
LOL ... "mention" [mentioned] was YOUR word! Who is not reading
carefully?
Below, you said ...
"Judyth mentioned at the time that she had
been in contact with the family, and had received the photos."
NOW you say you were kept in the loop AT THE TIME she was attempting
to contact the family.
Make up your mind, Martin!
Barb :-)
Martin Shackelford
As for the alleged publisher, I think you mean Trine Day--that's the only
one
that comes close to your mangled version.
As for the rest of the story, you never seem to like the rest of the story.
As for your usual fantasies, Ed, Judyth and I all get along fine.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:17f3c1b2-eb13-4381...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
contradiction where there is none, Barb.
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dls6r41kk2c2fi5pm...@4ax.com...
Barb Junkkarinen
everything ...
... or are going to claim someone has gone to a rather elaborate ruse?
Barb :-)
On 8 Mar 2009 11:07:36 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
William Yates
> I'm not getting the impression that you read this carefully before giving
> one
> of your patented flip responses, Barb.
You never read anything carefully before providing a flip response, so
why should anyone else?
> At the time she was seeking to contact the family, Judyth kept us in the
> loop,
> notified us when she was able to contact them, and sent us copies of the
> photos
> they provided. Clearly, we're not just talking about a "mention."
>
> Martin
And I suppose you can prove Judyth had that information about Taylor/Young
before she talked to the family or did any internet research on him? She
didn't just get the information from his relatives and then incorporate it
into her account the way she did when she got the gargoyle ring info from
Howard?
JLeyd...@aol.com
> I see no such claim on the website. Post a link or drop the claim, Leyden.
As for the alleged publisher, I think you mean Trine Day--that's the only
one that comes close to your mangled version.
As for the rest of the story, you never seem to like the rest of the story.
As for your usual fantasies, Ed, Judyth and I all get along fine.
>
> Martin
Boy, you really are out of the loop, aren't you Shackelford? And still
inclined not to do any research on your own where Judyth is concerned.
Try "hhh://judythvarybaker.com/". But you're right about the allleged
publisher (and I logged on today intending to correct it). It's Trine Day
which also published Haslam's book and Wim Dankbaar's nonsense re James
Files along with various other works of imaginative fiction. BTW, I'll
expect an apology for your intemperate remarks above.
JGL
Barb Junkkarinen
<william_...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Martin Shackelford wrote:
>> I'm not getting the impression that you read this carefully before giving
>> one
>> of your patented flip responses, Barb.
>
>You never read anything carefully before providing a flip response, so
>why should anyone else?
>
>> At the time she was seeking to contact the family, Judyth kept us in the
>> loop,
>> notified us when she was able to contact them, and sent us copies of the
>> photos
>> they provided. Clearly, we're not just talking about a "mention."
>>
>> Martin
>
>And I suppose you can prove Judyth had that information about Taylor/Young
>before she talked to the family or did any internet research on him? She
>didn't just get the information from his relatives and then incorporate it
>into her account the way she did when she got the gargoyle ring info from
>Howard?
William, I do have something that will be posted in the near future
that is clearly the result of googling ... as it could not have come
from anywhere else...in large part because it was an assumption ...
and an incorrecrt one. ;-) A couple weeks and my eyes will be ready
and visiting relatives will be gone ... and I will be getting back to
finishing up.
Bests,
Barb :-)
Martin Shackelford
mention of this on her regular site:
http://judythvarybaker.spaces.live.com/
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3nb8r4pq2h4k1ldn7...@4ax.com...
Martin Shackelford
written by her, and published in the Bradenton Herald, would seem to
support that she had a rather exceptional knowledge of cancer research
for a 16 year old in 1961.
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3nb8r4pq2h4k1ldn7...@4ax.com...
> You may get along fine, but they seem to not be telling you
> everything ...
>
> http://meandlee.com/
>
> ... or are going to claim someone has gone to a rather elaborate ruse?
>
> Barb :-)
Tremendous Efforts Are Being Made
For Fighting Cancer of All Types
Bradenton Herald May 4, 1961
(Editor's note: The follow- ing manuscript was submit- ted to The
Herald by Judy Vary, outstanding young science student of Manatee High
School. Judy is special- izing on cancer reseaerch and she said the
article, prepared by experts, soon will appear in the National
Biological Teachers Association mag- azine). Someday, we are
told, cancer will join the long ranks of completely - curable diseases.
Someday, we are promised, there will be found a cure for cancer of all
kinds. But few of us realize the tremendous ef- forts being made
against the dread disease in the many lab- oratories and hospitals
through- out the country, or of the mil- lions of man-hours being spent
everywhere by dedicated men and women who are doing their best to find
some of the an- swers to our nation's second- greatest killer-disease.
The results of such work are sometimes, even often, disap- pointing, but
progress is now be- ing made at an ever-increasing rate. For example,
children with leukemia could be expected to live only as long as five or
six months with ??????? treatments a few years ago. Now some sur-
vive as long as five years with various new treatments, such as the
injection of cancer-recessor drugs - drugs which regress leu- kemic
activity for ever increasing periods of time - in the patient. Some of
the advances against cancer were recently released for the first time to
the press by the top research scientists in the nation last month where
the Doctor's Motel at St. Petersburg was host to the annual Science
Writers' Seminar sponsored by the American Cancer Society. Newsmen from
every major news- paper in the United States were present at the
exclusive confer- ence. Many of the findings pre- sented were
dramatically encour- aging, pointing to a possible cure for cancer
within the next few decades. Pict
DRUGS Dr. George Moore, director of the Roswell Park Memorial
In- stitute for Cancer Research in Buffalo, reported that there are
now drugs existing capable of curing 70 per cent of the can- cerous
growths in mice when used in conjustion with irradia- tion. These
drugs, Thio-Tepa and AB-112, are now being tested on human volunteers
with hopelessly- advanced cases of cancer. The ????? seem to work just
as well in men, but they are highly-spe- cific: that is, they work only
on special types of cancer. This is a common drawback of most of the
anti-cancer drugs now in uses. One big problem now facing
pathologists is the determina- tion of cancerous tissues. Some- times
the pronouncement of a specimen of tissue as being ma- lignant may mean
amputation of a whole limb; if the diagnosis is incorrect, the life of
the patient has been made vastly more dif- ficult for no consequence.
Dr. A. Clark Griffin to the group that perhaps this problem may soon
be at least partially solved. He and his staff has found a toxohormone
in the tissues of cancerous animals and humans which has not been found
in normal specimens. It is a by- product of carcinomous activity,
composed of 85 per cent poly- petids and about 20 per ????
phosphollpids. It depresses the liver's production of catalase - an
enzyme necessary for the production of red blood cells.
EFFECTS Many of the drugs which could be successfully used in
anti-can- cer therapy cannot be adminis- tered because of the dangerous
toxic effects on sensitive organs or tissues in the body which are
non-cancerous. Dr. Claude Hitch- cock and his associates from Min-
neapolis General Hospital told of the special surgical procedures in-
volving hypothermia, a rapid lower- ing of body or tissue's normal
temperature to slightly above freezing point, drainage of fluids and
perfusion of the removed or- gan with anti-cancer drugs. Kid- neys, for
example, were removed from living baboons, "frozen," perfused, slowly
"thawed," and replaced in the anesthetized ani- mal after up to 18 hours
with no apparent ill effects. The po- tentials involved are enormous.
Consider, for example, cancer of the lung being treated by removal of
the lung and complete eradica- tion of the cancer by means of drugs
which would normally pois- on the whole body dangerously. The lung could
be replaced in the body whenever the patient would be strong enough to
undergo a second operation safely, or, if pos- sible, the treated organ
could be replaced as soon as a few hours! The day may come when whole
brains could be transplanted by such a method. Pict
BLOOD Is the blood of a person with cancer different from that of a
normal person? Dr. Lawrence Levine told of a new series of experiments
where, by means of warming DNA (deoxyribonuclaic acid) extracts - which
are ex- tracts of the nucleic acid found in the nuclei of cells which
con- trols heredity and directs the syn- thesis of chemical compounds in
every cell, as well as being necessary to the cell's growth and
existence - which were taken from cancerous and normal tis- sues, were
found to molecularly "unwrap" from their essential structures - long,
winding chains ?????-exposed more of their reactive centers. This ex-
posure caused an antibody-stimu lating reaction when injected into
healthy animals; however, more antibody production was noted from DNA
extracts thus treated from cancerous tissues than from normal. The
possibilities that a "vaccine" from such extracts could be made was
suggested, and much work in this field is being planned. These extracts
were also taken from the blood of healthy and cancerous patients, and
simi- lar reactions were found to occur, demonstrating that there was
some essential difference to the blood of cancerous human beings.
The question of a vaccine for cancer has been raised by many of these
scientists. Dr. Catleau (?) related how she inject- ed attenuated
(weakened) can- cer cells from white mice into healthy animals. The
weakened cells did not produce cancer in these animals, although un-
weakened cells did so within a few weeks. She found that ani- mals
injected with the atten- uated cancer cells which were later re-injected
with cancerous tissues which were not weaken- ed, still did not develop
cancer! The suggestion that a vaccine had been created in these mice
was very seriously considered. More extensive research is to be
conducted along these lines. Could such a "vaccine" work for man?
TEAM The husband and wife research team of Drs. Ruth M. and
John B. Graham have gone this one step further. They produced simi-
lar vaccines - and actually have tested them on human beings with
cancer. The results, although not definite, are not unencour- aging.
It was found that the in- jections of the "vaccine" caused alterations
at the site of injec- tion in about 40 per cent of the patients. Those
who did not re- act were all dead despite every kind of therapy
available after a period of only one year. However, 33 per cent of the
persons who suffered from ulceration at the site of injection were still
alive at the end of one year. Even after 30 months, 39 out of 307 of
these patient were still alive. So the vaccine idea may have some worth
even though vast improve- ments of the treatment are need ed. A
Chinese scientist working in this country by the name of Dr. Mann Chiang
Niu has found a way to change cancerous cells into normal cells and
normal cells into cancerous ones using an in- cubation method with RNA
(ribo- nucleic acid) extracts. He took RNA from cancerous liver tissues
and incubated normal liver cells in it. The cells became cancerous.
Cancerous liver cells, however, when incubated with RNA ex- tracts from
normal cells, lost their malignancy and apparently became normal cells
in every way
Many scientists now believe that a majority of cancers may be
caused by viruses that are non-contagious. Such viruses capable of
producing cancer in mice have been found with the aid of the electron
microscope. One especially virulent type, Polyoma, causes at least 23
dif- ferent kinds of cancer in mice!! Fortunately, this virus is not
transferable in humans, for the polyoma virus has be found, due to the
mouse population's wide desemination, to exist in dairys, graineries,
mills, and bakeries, as well as in the stomachs of cattle who have
eaten comtaminated hay and corn. The virus is easily killed, however,
and no danger to us. Even though the mice don't seem to give us cancer,
the mice haven't been so lucky, in relation to humans, Filtrates from
carcinomas taken from humans that are injected in mice, says Dr. James
T. Grace, cause cancer in the mice in up to 17 per cent of the animals
after only a half-a-year. We always used to maintain that the nucleus
of a human cell contained 46 chromosomes. Chro- mosomes are the "bags"
in the nucleus which hold the genes that control heredity,
cell-division, and the growth of the cell to a large extent. Dr. Avery
A. Sandberg, associated with the American Cancer Society, told au the
con- ferences that cells in humans have been found whose nuclei
contain up to 92 chromosomes! These abnormal cells have been found in
Mongoloid idiots, leukem- ians and those with cancer as well. The
number may range
anywhere from 50 to 75 or more, and it is theoretically-supposed that
the chromosomes, which usually split completely in half when the cell
divides (mitosis) probably don't split completely until after the cell
has divided. This means that one cell, not having enough chromosomes,
dies in the systems, while the other, with more than a normal amout of
the vital units becomes abnor- mal; this abnormality may be cancer. So
we know a lot about cancer now. But David knew a lot about Goliath.
The true prob- lem today is to find the right rock to hit him with!
STUDY Carcinogens - cancer-producing or inducing substances, are now
being studied to determine how they affect the cell to make it
cancerous. There are several theories, but most are linked to the
chromosome explanation and the two nucleic acids found in the heart of
the cell - DNA and RNA. Dr. Emmanuel Farber has concluded after
extensive re- search that carcinogens probably act on nucleotid segments
of the nucleic acid molecules, particular- ly those of DNA. The
reaction to the carcinogens causes bizarre changes in the chain-like
compo- sition of the acids, making them resemble molecular struc-
tures found in a virus nucleic acid that is capable of producing cancer
in mice. The doctor be- lieves that the carcinogens - tars, oils,
cigarette smoke, arsenic, etc. - cause aberrations similar to those
induced by viruses or radia- tion in the cell, eventually causing cancer
due to this alteration in the basic elements of the cell's nucleotid
structures. Probably the most interesting study on carcinogenic
agents was conducted by Dr. D. Caylee Hammond of the Statistical Re-
search section of the ACS. His work with 13, 068 persons in re- lation
to the smoking habits and the effects of smoking was laterpreted at the
seminar. Some very auspicious fingers now seem to point out that
smoking causes cancer. Fur- ther, filters seem to hlep very little.
Some of the answers given for the questionaires were significant. For
example, 26.2 per cent of smokers who smokes two packs of cigarettes
a day complained of nervous tension, while onle 7.2 per cent
of non-smokers had this com- plaint. Other figures, such as coughing,
loss of appetite, and fatigue, were correspondingly high for smokers as
compared with non-smokers. Figures aslo indicate another startling
fact: divorced or separated women smoked far more cigarettes than did
unmarried, married, or widowed women! In some cases, the difference
amounted to over 36 per cent more cigarettes. Statistics also pointed
out that the smoker is nine times more likely to develop cancer of the
lungs than the non-smoker Dr. Michael B. Shimkin report- ed that a
serious epidemic of hepatic sarcocarcinoma - liver cancer - has broken
out in fish hatcheries. The reason, it was found, was due to feeding
the fish high-carbohydrate diets in- stead of the normal high-protein
fare, because it was cheaper for the hatcheries to supply. The re- sult
acted as a carcinogenic agent on the sensitive livers of the fish -
causing huge white tumors in the dark flesh of the organ, especially in
older fish. The more- expensive, high-protein diet has been resumed in
most of the hatcheries at this date, and the cancer is beginning to die
out.
EDUCATIONAL The entire seminar was a most educational,
intellectually stim- ulating, and enjoyable affair! It is extremely
difficult to even re- late half of the discoveries re- leased to the
public for the first time, and this outline is of neces- sity
inadequate. But the fact that these discoveries are taking place - and
there are so many! - only means that the battle against cancer - man's
most ancient and painful enemy - is being waged harder than ever. We're
close to a final answer to cancer - perhaps within the next two or three
decades or even sooner. But it takes cooperation, facilities, funds.
We all can't don a white coat and work in a laboratory, but we all can
help the battle against cancer by giving gen- erously to the American
Cancer Society: which sponsors these vitally important activities. Re-
member more persons have died from cancer in the last 50 years than from
all of history's great wars. It's up to you to fight cancer - with a
"check up - and a check!!!"
Martin Shackelford
you accept McAdams' wholly unsupported claim that Howard provided
Judyth with the gargoyle ring information. I have no basis for believing
that, and Howard has told me quite firmly that he didn't provide it.
Martin
"William Yates" <william_...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:LrGdnQfxVcki2S7U...@earthlink.com...
Martin Shackelford
Feel free to apologize.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8134035e-dcb3-422b...@d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@charter.net> wrote:
>I'm going to point out that it is a DIFFERENT website, Barb. There is no
>mention of this on her regular site:
>http://judythvarybaker.spaces.live.com/
I noticed that too, Martin ... why I asked about the possibility of
someone pulling some sort of elaborate ruse.
Since you are getting along just fine with Judyth and Haslam ... why
not just ask them and, if there is no new book planned, make them
aware. :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@charter.net> wrote:
>Did you ignore everything else on the website? The following article,
>written by her, and published in the Bradenton Herald, would seem to
>support that she had a rather exceptional knowledge of cancer research
>for a 16 year old in 1961.
Why on earth would I ned to revisit, reread any of that. I know she
was a stellar science student involved in cancer experimentrs in high
school.
Is this the article she wrote after attending the cancer writer's
seminar ... the one where she reports what various doctors are doing
in research? She was there, Martin, she took notes, she got handouts.
Geesh.
William Yates
> I'm going to point out that it is a DIFFERENT website, Barb. There is no
> mention of this on her regular site:
> http://judythvarybaker.spaces.live.com/
>
> Martin
It's mentioned on the site Ed Haslam runs.
QUOTE
"Where can I get Judyth's book?
Her 2006 book called LEE HARVEY OSWALD is no longer available, either
new or used.
Her 2009 book called ME & LEE will be published by Trine Day in Nov. 2009."
END QUOTE
William Yates
> Did you ignore everything else on the website? The following article,
> written by her, and published in the Bradenton Herald, would seem to
> support that she had a rather exceptional knowledge of cancer research
> for a 16 year old in 1961.
>
> Martin
Wasn't May 4, 1961 11 days before her *18th* birthday?
William Yates
> You criticize uncritically accepting what is said by someone, and yet
> you accept McAdams' wholly unsupported claim that Howard provided
> Judyth with the gargoyle ring information. I have no basis for believing
> that, and Howard has told me quite firmly that he didn't provide it.
>
> Martin
How else would she have known that?
And, can you prove her information about Taylor/Young predated her
contacting the family or doing any other research?
JLeyd...@aol.com
> I see that you provided a wholly fictional website address, Leyden.
> Feel free to apologize.
>
> Martin
I keep giving you too much credit, Shackelford. For example, early on I
imagined you would have picked up the phone and talke to Judyth's ex-
husband about her wild claims. Marina, too. But, no, that was too much
like actuaal research.and you belabored us for eight long years with
unchecked data. So I'll simplify things for you. Just type Judyth's full
name into Google and then click on the link that says "Official Web Site
of Judyth Vary Baker." How hard can that be? BTW, skip the apology. It
would be meaningless coming from a guy like you.
JGL
>
> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
Barb Junkkarinen
<william_...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Martin Shackelford wrote:
>> I'm going to point out that it is a DIFFERENT website, Barb. There is no
>> mention of this on her regular site:
>> http://judythvarybaker.spaces.live.com/
>>
>> Martin
>
>It's mentioned on the site Ed Haslam runs.
oooo...good catch. I missed it. How come Martimn doesn't know about
this? ;-)
Cripes, I was hoping it wasn't true ... just what we need, another
debacle like the last ... sigh.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<william_...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Martin Shackelford wrote:
>> Did you ignore everything else on the website? The following article,
>> written by her, and published in the Bradenton Herald, would seem to
>> support that she had a rather exceptional knowledge of cancer research
>> for a 16 year old in 1961.
>>
>> Martin
>
>Wasn't May 4, 1961 11 days before her *18th* birthday?
Why yes, it was. :-)
The article also was not written from her knowledge ... it was written
reporting what she had heard doctors involved in cancer research say
at the seminar.
Do you suppose Martin ever checked the "National Biological Teachers
Association" magazine to see if such an article ran? :-)
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"William Yates" <william_...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BoadndyC6IM95yjU...@earthlink.com...
Martin Shackelford
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:65ace523-7b43-4951...@p11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 9, 6:57?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@charter.net> wrote:
> I see that you provided a wholly fictional website address, Leyden.
> Feel free to apologize.
>
> Martin
I keep giving you too much credit, Shackelford. For example, early on I
imagined you would have picked up the phone and talke to Judyth's ex-
husband about her wild claims. Marina, too. But, no, that was too much
like actuaal research.and you belabored us for eight long years with
unchecked data. So I'll simplify things for you. Just type Judyth's full
name into Google and then click on the link that says "Official Web Site
of Judyth Vary Baker." How hard can that be? BTW, skip the apology. It
would be meaningless coming from a guy like you.
JGL
>
> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8134035e-dcb3-422b...@d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 8, 10:07?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@charter.net> wrote:> I
> see no such claim on the website. Post a link or drop the claim, Leyden.
>
> ?As for the alleged publisher, I think you mean Trine Day--that's the only
> ?one ?that comes close to your mangled version.
> ?As for the rest of the story, you never seem to like the rest of the
> story.
> ?As for your usual fantasies, Ed, Judyth and I all get along fine.
>
>
>
> > Martin
>
> Boy, you really are out of the loop, aren't you Shackelford? ?And still
> inclined not to do any research on your own where Judyth is concerned.
> Try "hhh://judythvarybaker.com/". ?But you're right about the allleged
> publisher (and I logged on today intending to correct it). ?It's Trine Day
> which also published Haslam's book and Wim Dankbaar's nonsense re James
> Files along with various other works of imaginative fiction. ?BTW, I'll
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uadcr4pcdl9g0p39f...@4ax.com...
William Yates
> But that doesn't explain where the cover picture page came from.
>
> Martin
Apparently, the publisher. The cover design is similar to the ones shown
at Trine Day's website:
That website, the page for Judyth's upcoming book and the page for Ed
Haslam's Dr. Mary's Monkey were all registered through a company called
Enom, Inc by someone named Robert Millegan.
Martin Shackelford
It's not Haslam's site, nor Judyth's site, nor the Trine Day site, nor
linked to any
of the three. What gives? Where did it come from?
Martin
"William Yates" <william_...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Nd-dnQxh1p6n5CvU...@earthlink.com...
William Yates
> The site is : http://meandlee.com/
> It's not Haslam's site, nor Judyth's site, nor the Trine Day site, nor
> linked to any
> of the three. What gives? Where did it come from?
>
> Martin
Let's try this again. Go to Enom's website,
At the top of the page is a search box with three options at the top.
Select whois and type in
Then, type in
Notice something similar about the results? Now, type in meandlee.com.
What did you find?
dreitzes@aol.com (Dave Reitzes)
wrote:
> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> > But that doesn't explain where the cover picture page came from.
>
> > Martin
>
> Apparently, the publisher. The cover design is similar to the ones shown
> at Trine Day's website:
>
> http://trineday.com/
>
> That website, the page for Judyth's upcoming book and the page for Ed
> Haslam's Dr. Mary's Monkey were all registered through a company called
> Enom, Inc by someone named Robert Millegan.
Martin should ask Judyth how to use an Internet search engine. She
mastered that particular skill a solid decade ago.
If not earlier. \:^)
> > "William Yates" <william_yates...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:BoadndyC6IM95yjU...@earthlink.com...
> >> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> >>> I'm going to point out that it is a DIFFERENT website, Barb. There is no
> >>> mention of this on her regular site:
> >>>http://judythvarybaker.spaces.live.com/
>
> >>> Martin
> >> It's mentioned on the site Ed Haslam runs.
>
> >>http://judythvarybaker.com/
>
> >> QUOTE
>
> >> "Where can I get Judyth's book? Her 2006 book called LEE HARVEY OSWALD is
> >> no longer available, either new or used. Her 2009 book called ME & LEE
> >> will be published by Trine Day in Nov. 2009."
>
> >> END QUOTE
>
> >>> "Barb Junkkarinen" <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:3nb8r4pq2h4k1ldn7...@4ax.com...
> >>>> You may get along fine, but they seem to not be telling you
> >>>> everything ...
>
> >>>>http://meandlee.com/
>
> >>>> ... or are going to claim someone has gone to a rather elaborate ruse?
>
> >>>> Barb :-)
>
> >>>> On 8 Mar 2009 11:07:36 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
> >>>> <msha...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>> I see no such claim on the website. Post a link or drop the claim,
> >>>>> Leyden.
> >>>>> As for the alleged publisher, I think you mean Trine Day--that's the
> >>>>> only
> >>>>> one
> >>>>> that comes close to your mangled version.
> >>>>> As for the rest of the story, you never seem to like the rest of the
> >>>>> story.
> >>>>> As for your usual fantasies, Ed, Judyth and I all get along fine.
>
> >>>>> Martin
>
> >>>>> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
Dave
Michael O'Dell
Michael
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:emLtl.117299$xK6....@newsfe12.iad...
dreitzes@aol.com (Dave Reitzes)
> The site is :http://meandlee.com/
> It's not Haslam's site, nor Judyth's site, nor the Trine Day site, nor
> linked to any
> of the three. What gives? Where did it come from?
>
> Martin
Have you considered asking . . . oh, I dunno . . . Judyth?
Dave
> "William Yates" <william_yates...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Nd-dnQxh1p6n5CvU...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
> > Martin Shackelford wrote:
> >> But that doesn't explain where the cover picture page came from.
>
> >> Martin
>
> > Apparently, the publisher. The cover design is similar to the ones shown
> > at Trine Day's website:
>
> >http://trineday.com/
>
> > That website, the page for Judyth's upcoming book and the page for Ed
> > Haslam's Dr. Mary's Monkey were all registered through a company called
> > Enom, Inc by someone named Robert Millegan.
>
> >> "William Yates" <william_yates...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>news:BoadndyC6IM95yjU...@earthlink.com...
> >>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> >>>> I'm going to point out that it is a DIFFERENT website, Barb. There is
> >>>> no
> >>>> mention of this on her regular site:
> >>>>http://judythvarybaker.spaces.live.com/
>
> >>>> Martin
> >>> It's mentioned on the site Ed Haslam runs.
>
> >>>http://judythvarybaker.com/
>
> >>> QUOTE
>
> >>> "Where can I get Judyth's book? Her 2006 book called LEE HARVEY OSWALD
> >>> is no longer available, either new or used. Her 2009 book called ME &
> >>> LEE will be published by Trine Day in Nov. 2009."
>
> >>> END QUOTE
>
> >>>> "Barb Junkkarinen" <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:3nb8r4pq2h4k1ldn7...@4ax.com...
> >>>>> You may get along fine, but they seem to not be telling you
> >>>>> everything ...
>
> >>>>>http://meandlee.com/
>
> >>>>> ... or are going to claim someone has gone to a rather elaborate ruse?
>
> >>>>> Barb :-)
>
> >>>>> On 8 Mar 2009 11:07:36 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
> >>>>> <msha...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> I see no such claim on the website. Post a link or drop the claim,
> >>>>>> Leyden.
> >>>>>> As for the alleged publisher, I think you mean Trine Day--that's the
> >>>>>> only
> >>>>>> one
> >>>>>> that comes close to your mangled version.
> >>>>>> As for the rest of the story, you never seem to like the rest of the
> >>>>>> story.
> >>>>>> As for your usual fantasies, Ed, Judyth and I all get along fine.
>
> >>>>>> Martin
>
> >>>>>> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
dreitzes@aol.com (Dave Reitzes)
wrote:
> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> > The site is :http://meandlee.com/
> > It's not Haslam's site, nor Judyth's site, nor the Trine Day site, nor
> > linked to any
> > of the three. What gives? Where did it come from?
>
> > Martin
>
> Let's try this again. Go to Enom's website,
>
> http://www.enom.com/
>
> At the top of the page is a search box with three options at the top.
> Select whois and type in
>
> www.trineday.com
>
> Then, type in
>
> drmarysmonkey.com
>
> Notice something similar about the results? Now, type in meandlee.com.
> What did you find?
I'll save crackerjack researcher/"in the loop" go-to guy Martin
Shackelford the trouble. Here's what www.whoisbusinesslistings.com
says:
<QUOTE ON>------------------------------------------------
meandlee.com = [ 72.167.37.82 ] =-=-=-=
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about meandlee.com
http://www.aboutus.org/meandlee.com"AboutUs: meandlee.com
Registration Service Provided By: TrineDay
Contact: ramil...@aol.com
Visit: http://www.trineday.com
Domain name: meandlee.com
Administrative Contact:
TrineDay
Robert Millegan ramil...@aol.com
+1.5417440090
Fax: +1.5417440030
39830 McKenzie Hwy
Springfield OR 97478
US
Technical Contact:
TrineDay
Robert Millegan ramil...@aol.com
+1.5417440090
Fax: +1.5417440030
39830 McKenzie Hwy
Springfield OR 97478
US
Registrant Contact:
TrineDay
Robert Millegan ()
Fax:
39830 McKenzie Hwy
Springfield OR 97478
US
Status: Locked
Name Servers:
dns1.name-services.com
dns2.name-services.com
dns3.name-services.com
dns4.name-services.com
dns5.name-services.com
Creation date: 07 Jan 2009 01: 12: 19
Expiration date: 07 Jan 2010 01: 12: 00
Get Noticed on the Internet! Increase visibility for this domain
name by listing it at www.whoisbusinesslistings.com
=-=-=-=
The data in this whois database is provided to you for information
purposes only that is to assist you in obtaining information about
or
related to a domain name registration record. We make this
information
available "as is " and do not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a
whois query you agree that you will use this data only for lawful
purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this data to:
(1)
enable high volume automated electronic processes that stress or
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this whois database system providing you this information; or (2)
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We reserve the right to modify these terms at any time. By
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this query you agree to abide by these terms.
Version 6.3 4/3/2002
<QUOTE OFF>-----------------------------------------------
Dave
Martin Shackelford
page, I found, is:
http://www.trineday.com/TD_statement1.html#Preorders
It actually provides a clear link between the book and Trine Day.
Martin
"William Yates" <william_...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56udnSgEJaDgWirU...@earthlink.com...
William Yates
> You seem capable mainly of adding further confusion. A more infomative
> page, I found, is:
>
> http://www.trineday.com/TD_statement1.html#Preorders
>
> It actually provides a clear link between the book and Trine Day.
>
> Martin
Judging by the posts from Michael, Dave, and Barb in this thread, it seems
you are the only one confused.
Now, how about addressing the issue you've avoided so far. Can you prove
any knowledge Judyth has of Taylor/Young was acquired first hand and not
as a result of the research she did for her story?