> I'll do my best to answer the questions.
>
> 1. My mom's name was Dorothy Glover in 1963. My parents divorced in 1958,
> and she kept the name until she remarried in 1973 to Jake Best. I'm the
> youngest of six. They had a boy, and then 5 girls. Mom was born October
> 30, 1918, named Dorothy Mae Haley in either Dallas or Rising Star, Texas.
> I'll look it up.
>
> 2. We were wayyyyyy early. We probably got there around 11:15. Lots of
> time for me to run around looking for the best view. I was so anxious. I
> went down Elm on the grass, came back up and finally decided on the
> pedestal. I do not remember anyone else there that early. I think we were
> the first ones there. Someone might be able to dispute that. But that's
> what I remember. Then I ran back and forth from my perch on the pedestal
> to the intersection of Main and Houston to see if the motorcade coming
> down Main.
>
> 3 We parked on Elm in the first block from Houston. We were so early, we
> intended to drive through Dealey Plaza and see how many people there were.
> and this street parking spot appeared close to Houston, and we pulled in
> considering it a stroke of good luck. I cannot tell your exactly how far
> down Elm we were parked. My memory says in the first block from Houston.
> If anyone gets a picture of the first two blocks down Elm. I "should" be
> able to pick out her car. My older sisters and brother might know the make
> and model. I don't. I remember colors, and I think the car was purple with
> fins. Go figure.
>
> 4. I knew a woman who had seizures so I knew what they looked like. I
> remember him on the ground on the west side of Houston, I'm not sure
> whether it was the north or south corners. Main street was blocked off at
> Houston because it a two-way street, and he might have been very close to
> lying in the street. But I think he was on the NW corner. My instinct was
> to help, but there were cops calling for an ambulance, and I was so
> distracted by the coming parade, that this event wasn't nearly as
> important as "is the car EVER going to get to Houston!!"
>
> 5. The instant the limo disappeared onto the highway, I whirled around to
> get down and the was a guy sitting on the grass, leaning against the
> pedestal on the Houston side. I probably wouldn't have noticed him at all
> except he wouldn't move to let me down so I had to crawl to the stone
> fence to get down. I don't know who he was or where he was before I turned
> around. Mom and I were shocked he wouldn't move. PLEASE, folks on the
> list, I know nothing else about this guy. To the best of my memory no one
> ever hid on the south end of the pedestal. BUt guys, let me qualify all
> this. I was transfixed in the president's limo. I wouldn't have noticed
> Mickey Mouse standing next to me during the time I had eyes on the
> president. BUT when something happens that makes you change your path (not
> jump off but crawl to the fence) it's memorable. I remember him being dark
> complected, but mom and I thought he was Hispanic not black. Don't know
> what this does to the Euins discussion, but that's what we both saw and
> talked about at home. My sisters remember us telling them that, too.
>
> 6. Yes. I was up on the pedestal from the moment the limo turned onto
> Houston, to the second it went under the Triple Underpass.So I was up
> there for the shots. This March I was in Dallas doing research in the
> Museum's Reading Room, and I decided to walk across the street to Dealey
> Plaza. I climbed up on the pedestal (not an easy task at 60) and took a
> video of my view, panning from Main all the way around to the underpass. I
> also took a picture of my view of the head shot from the pedestal. Happy
> to send either.
>
> Let me reiterate here that I am researching people's emotional reaction
> and how it effected them throughout there lives. That's why I've watched
> hours of oral histories. I have never done research on who shot the
> president or why.
>
> 7. There is a column in the PLaza that blocked my view for a second. I
> think the first shot was when my view was blocked. I'll send the video and
> you can see exactly when I could see what.
>
> 8. I have no idea how many shots were fired (I think I heard 2), but
> anyone serious about this needs to go down there and listen to how much it
> echoes in the canyons of downtown Dallas. I have always qualified my
> answer by saying it echoed so much, I couldn't tell how many shots (at
> least 2) or where any of them came from. After the first shot, I looked at
> my mom, but other than that, my eyes were glued on the car. It was an
> extraordinarily emotional time for me. I don't know how many people have
> seen a human head explode, but I was eleven and it traumatized me. So
> remembering details is mixed with a LOT of emotion. I do my best.
>
> 9. Didn't smell anything (certain on that one).
>
> 10. I saw there were cars following, but again, my gaze was transfixed on
> the president's car. You can see in one of the photos I'm waving my arms
> at the president as he turned the corner onto Elm. I didn't pay any
> attention to the other cars.
>
> 11. In the aftermath people were stunned at first, then it became chaotic.
> I had yelled "someone threw fireworks in the car" and I remember people
> looking up at me cause they couldn't see anything and I could. But that
> lasted only second, because I immediately tried to get down and people had
> started moving down Elm.
>
> 12. As soon as I got down, I looked around for sources that might know
> what's really happening, and saw a police motorcycle (maybe 2?) parked in
> front of the SBD steps. I ran over there to listen to what the police were
> being told. I tried not to act like I was listening. I was there for maybe
> 30 seconds (I don't know exactly) when I heard the words "shot in the
> head." I immediately ran back to my mom. She had a heart condition and we
> were always trying to protect her from stress, so I lied and said, "It
> only grazed his head, let's go home." We walked the block to our car and
> drove straight down Elm like any other day. It wasn't blocked off. It
> amazes me that they let cars drive through the scene 5 minutes after the
> assassination. Now that we have all the crime solving TV, it seems odd
> that a crime scene was not blocked off. SO, in a nutshell: I was on the
> pedestal until the car vanished, I got off and ran across the street to
> listen to the police radios, I went back to my mom (still near the
> pedestal) and told her his head was grazed and that we should leave right
> away. I was acutely aware of her heart condition and wanted to get her out
> of there ASAP. SO I was in the Plaza 2-3 minutes after the final shot?
> Timing this is very difficult for me. It could have been 1 minute, but not
> more than 5. I'm guessing it took 2-3 minutes for me to go hear the
> radios, get back to my mom and leave. I know it was fast.
>
> 13. Mom died in 1996. In fact it was her death that made me start thinking
> I needed to contact someone at the Museum. The thing she talked about most
> was the guy who wouldn't let us down. Geez it's hard for me to remember
> what she wore. I know I tried to get her up on the pedestal, but it was
> high. At one point when we were waiting, we both sat on the stone fence.
> But that was long before anything happened. I want to say that's mom next
> to me, but I can't be sure. Logically, it would have been odd for her to
> lose all dignity and climb up there. But it looks like her coat in Dorman.
> the woman could definitely be my mom. It looks like I hug her as the limo
> turns onto Elm. The top of the pedestal is slanted, very slightly from the
> edge to the center. That made it a little tricky not to fall off. I was
> probably trying to steady whoever is up there. That's the best I can do
> unless I find a family picture of her in that coat. I'll tell my sisters
> to go through some family albums.
>
> 14. No friends there. Only me and mom.
>
> 15. After viewing a number of oral histories, I found 2-3 that were near
> my age. The museum graciously let me hold a mini "private symposium,"
> focusing on their emotional journey. Neither one of them were witnesses in
> Dallas that day, but they had emotional reactions similar to mine.
>
> 15. I have not followed anything in 40 years. The first few years when all
> kinds of theories were coming out, I paid attention. But not since. I was
> shocked to find this group. Let me interject something I know a lot about.
> Many, many witnesses developed a completely irrational yet paralyzing fear
> that "if I talk, someone will come get me and kill me." Laugh if you want,
> but go look at the oral histories at the Sixth Floor Museum. I've watched
> grown people weeping as they try to retell their experience. I've seen
> professionals choke through tears. Many people did not come forward for 30
> - 45 years out of a fear that someone would come get them and kill them.
> My first attempt to talk to the historians at the museum was in 1988(?),
> but I left. I was still afraid. I KNOW. NOT RATIONAL. Then I finally did
> an oral history in 1999, and another in March this year.
>
> I wish I had an exact schematic drawing of my end of the reflecting pool
> to the corner curb. I could point out exactly where I was and when. Trying
> to explain it with words doesn't produce a clear picture.
>
> Did I answer all the questions. Parts are clear and some parts are fuzzy.
> I can only do my best. That's how memory works, well my does. Clear
> pieces/fuzzy pieces. Sometimes a picture clears up a fuzzy memory. I
> thought trees blocked my view for that second I couldn't see the car, but
> when I went back in March, I climbed up on the pedestal and discovered it
> was the column, not a tree, that blocked my view. Things like that show
> you how memory tries to fill in the blanks.
>
> Toni
.... Good Day Toni .... Sorry to hear about your Mom passing on. Please
accept my very sincere condolences.
Along with your observations, I was truly hoping to also learn the details
that your Mom recalled with respect to the assassination. Can you please
detail what she shared about 11-22-63? Was she wearing a longish, light
colored coat (possibly beige) that day?; in clear Zapruder frames there
looks to be someone sitting atop the North Reflecting Pool’s east side
wall, about 5’ to 6’ south of the pedesta l you stood on, facing
towards you.
Recently also lost a Loved One who was a Best Friend, and have a Longtime
Friend who was a 3x-un-defeated football fellow-Champion Teammate
fellow-linebacker who is “knockin’ on heaven’s door” since his
being stricken with pancreas, liver, and spinal tumors.
Thank You, very much, for providing your additional details for us from
my questions, and for your emails and sharing your photos and video. I am
looking forward to speaking with you.
All of your observations are truly interesting, and, several of them
are very, very interesting....
~ ~ ~ ~ E-e-e-especially interesting is your primary observation
that you could NOT see President Kennedy when the first shot that
you remembered hearing was fired….
I simply must ask again, so everything is crystal clear…. Are
you 100% certain that JFK had already gone out of your view when
you heard the first shot? …. If not, how many second(s) had he
already been out of your view?)
….That key time stamping detail of JFK being out of your view when a
shot was fired led me to photo-grammatically locate your exact
location, as determined by the multiple, intersecting lines-of-sight
for you as seen in the Bell, Hughes, and Dorman films, and I
determined your precise location to be here, shown on my scaled,
accurate Dealey Plaza map….
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/711/toniglover042212.gif
(if that map appears small when you initially open it, simply click
on it to enlarge)
(: An aside…. On that map I have had the scaled presidential limousine
placed at that specific location for many, many years, and, the
location of President Kennedy’s head within that limo is exactly even
with you, Toni :)
Very interestingly, and exactly as your detailed assassination
observations stated, President Kennedy could have first gone out of
your view when the pyracantha tree foliage a few feet north of the
large, tall cement column-monument first started to block JFK from
your view at Z-174 to 175 (labeled “TGt-1” for your line-of-sight to
JFK on my DP map) (the pyracantha tree foliage round outline is
colored in green and sized on my scaled, accurate DP map exactly as it
was seen in photos and films on 11-22-63)
If the pyracantha tree did not first block your view of JFK, then,
exactly as you stated, the tall column-monument’s north, pointed
side definitely would have first started to block President Kennedy
from your view at Z-180 to 181 (labeled “TGc-1” for your line-of-
sight on my DP map)
Then, as you stated, President Kennedy would have been visible to you,
again, just past the south side of the tall column-monument, starting
at Z-217 to 218 (labeled “TGc-2” for your line-of-sight on my DP map)
(employing the standard AVERAGE running time of the Zapruder film of
18.3 frames-per-second, JFK would have been out of your view for
exactly 2.3 seconds (if the pyracantha tree first blocked him), to
2.0 seconds (if the column-monument first blocked him)
I will also say that your timing of the first shot that you heard
happening between Z-174 and 218 is right in line with many of the
close witnesses and close weapons-experienced witnesses who stated
that JFK, first, started waving (which he starts at Z-170 to 171),
and after he first started waving, THEN the first shot happened and
he immediately, dramatically, physically quickly reacted to it
impacting him ultra-rapidly snapping his head 87-degrees at Z-203 to
206, shaking his head, raising his arms/hands, and then facing back
towards and leaning towards his wife.
Here’s something I discovered today that am sure that you will
appreciate, and that since you have not mentioned it, you have not
noticed, nor has anyone pointed out for you….until now….
Being very familiar with the plaza, its perspectives, measurements,
etc, I had a feeling about something, so, I drew the line-of-sight
on my scaled, accurate DP map from Mr. Zapruder’s camera lens, to
you….
. . . . I am absolutely certain that you are in the Zapruder
film !!!!
Including on my accurate map Mr. Zapruder’s camera line-of-sight to
your location led me to closely examining several of the clear
Zapruder frames between 177 and about 216.
There surely is, what positively appears to be to me, your blue-
coated arm + hand that is lowered and still away from your side (since
the torso, vertical side of your coat is not seen).
Your arm/hand can just be seen in the Zapruder film along the south
side of the column-monument (along the right side of the column-
monument as seen in the Zap film). I can provide the Zap frames for
you, if you want.
As you stated when you continued to strive to see JFK, this was
probably your arm and hand because you had turned and were then
facing the grassy kno!!
(and/or, striving to keep safely balanced atop your pedestal, as you
stated)
Your arm/hand also looks like they changed positions a bit during
during those 2.1 seconds between Z-177 to 216
Your arm/hand also appear at what would have been the correct height
while you were, as you stated, still standing up elevated on
“Glover’s pedestal” during the shots
(: Yes…. I now think we researchers should label that pedestal for
you! :)
Also, I have actually stood atop and videotaped from what is, now and
forever, for me, “Glover’s pedestal,” and I know that you could have
seen over the North Peristyle’s western-most cement (lower wall), and
also westward you could have seen through the open spaces underneath
the 2 trees foliage, and that, as you stated earlier, you could have
seen President Kennedy at Z-313. (I have also just finished checking
photos and films captured from 11-22-63 and the days thereafter to
confirm those trees had enough viewing clearance under them, then)
And just to make certain it is asked…. The president’s head did
explode simultaneously with the 2nd shot you heard?
Quick question…. after JFK first was hidden from your view at Z-174 to
181 , and then, the first shot that you remembered was fired, do
you recall if you backed-up a foot or two southward on your pedestal,
or, did you stand un-moving? …. Do you recall if the first shot you
remembered hearing while JFK was out of your view made your upper body/
arms jump some or a lot in startlement?
Can you please estimate exactly how many seconds were there between
the 2 shots you heard?
Best Regards in Research,
Don
Donald Roberdeau
DRoberdeau @
aol.com (no spaces)
United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly
For your key considerations....
Homepages: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and
2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html
Dealey Plaza Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise locations,
Evidence, Witnesses, Films & Photos, Suspected bullet
trajectories,Important information & Key Considerations, in One
2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html
T together