As can be seen on the transcript of DPD radio communications, Chief Curry said at 12:30-12:31, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there." What happened up there, many people, including Chief Curry and Officer Hargis, apparently thought was that somebody had been shooting at the presidential limousine.
Officer Haygood was the first officer to get up there and he reported in at 12:34-12:35, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
You can see in the Cabluck photo that Haygood is the first cop up there, and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet, there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass. How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him, unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say, "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think this is weird?
On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
> As can be seen on the transcript of DPD radio communications, Chief Curry
> said at 12:30-12:31, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see
> what happened up there." What happened up there, many people, including
> Chief Curry and Officer Hargis, apparently thought was that somebody had
> been shooting at the presidential limousine.
> Officer Haygood was the first officer to get up there and he reported in
> at 12:34-12:35, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to
> it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book
> Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
> You can see in the Cabluck photo that Haygood is the first cop up there,
It would help if you could upload the photo you are talking about. Hargis was up in that area also so we don't know if you are sure which was which. Hargis is the motorcycle cop wearing black gloves. Haygood was not.
> and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man
> dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a
Show me the walkie-talkie.
> gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely
> that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make
If you could show us the guy maybe we'd know who he is, where he was and what he reported seeing and hearing. Remember, most witnesses only heard the shots or saw the effects of the shots and did not actually see them fired. For instance Baker knew instantly from the sound that the shots came from a high floor of the TSBD in the eastern corner.
> any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he
> still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like
> he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could
Who ran up there with a gun in his hand? Only Joe Smith.
> he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy
> never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet,
Yeah, so what? Maybe the WC knew better than to ask.
Maybe Bowles did.
> there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and
> where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting
Show me the tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting away from it.
I think the only cloud of smoke drifting away stems from what you are smoking.
> away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass.
> How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer
Maybe somebody did. Maybe there is a recorded interview that you don't know about. How about Rosemary Willis. She waited until she grew up to be the first person to mention seeing the man behind the retaining wall.
> Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the
> shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots
I think what he means is that a spectator who was close to the moment of the head shot.
> came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they
> were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him,
> unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say,
> "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think
> this is weird?
On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:15:45 PM UTC-4, fatol...@gmail.com wrote:
> As can be seen on the transcript of DPD radio communications, Chief Curry
> said at 12:30-12:31, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see
> what happened up there." What happened up there, many people, including
> Chief Curry and Officer Hargis, apparently thought was that somebody had
> been shooting at the presidential limousine.
> Officer Haygood was the first officer to get up there and he reported in
> at 12:34-12:35, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to
> it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book
> Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
> You can see in the Cabluck photo that Haygood is the first cop up there,
> and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man
> dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a
> gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely
> that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make
> any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he
> still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like
> he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could
> he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy
> never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet,
> there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and
> where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting
> away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass.
> How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer
> Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the
> shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots
> came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they
> were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him,
> unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say,
> "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think
> this is weird?
No,I don't think it's "weird". I think it's ridiculous that people can actually come up with nonsense such as this. You are saying that all of those railroad employees, plus Dallas police officer J.W. Foster who is with the railroad emplyees, were in on the assassination. All of those people who were standing on the underpass during the shooting were accounted for. Sam Holland also is dressed in suit and tie. Does that make him "suspicious"?
On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:15:45 PM UTC-4, fatol...@gmail.com wrote:
> Maybe the WC knew better than to ask.
I'll *bet* they did.
Actually, neither Haygood nor Hargis told the Warren Commission that the they ran up to the bridge, but Haygood said he ran to the railroad yard, which you can get to by way of the bridge. Hargis's WC testimony, assuming it is accurate, excludes the possibility of him being on the bridge. Perhaps it isn't accurate. You'll have to take that up with him. Maybe he wanted to show Haygood his new gloves before he went over to the TSBD.
I think it is interesting to compare different versions of evidence of the same event. It's kinda fun, and sometimes it suggests possibilities. Regarding the current topic at hand, according to the police radio log Chief Curry issued this command just after 12:30: "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there." Presumably, and we must presume because the Warren Commission had the good sense not to ask, Officer Haygood heard this order while he was tooling down Houston Street, and one might assume that that was the reason he brought his bike down Elm and ran up there to the underpass bridge. Again, we must assume, because the Warren Commission had the good sense not to ask. In fact, in a nimble show of footwork, Mr. Belin manages to avoid any mention of the overpass or of Cury's order. Touche. But, interestingly, he does bring up Haygood's radio communication at 12:34-12:35. He has Haygood read a special WC transcript: "I talked to a guy at the scene who says the shots were fired from the Texas School Book Depository Building with the Hertz Rent A Car sign on top." The actual transcript, however, reads: "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top." Considering that this was presumably a response to Cury's order to check out what happened on top of the underpass, one may note a curious difference between the two, the replacement of the words "up here" with "at the scene." The original gives the impression that Haygood talked with somebody on the bridge. The WC version obliterates that impression, and, combined with Haygood's testimony, creates the new impression that the radio message referred to somebody at street level. Perhaps this was an editorial clarification, but this is not the way to treat evidence. You don't change the words to what you would like them to be. You use the original words and ask the witness to clarify, if necessary...unless you're trying to cover up something.
Another curiosity coming out of new impressions created by Haygood's testimony is the time element. Haygood says he is on Main Street when he hears the shots. For the purposes of discussion we'll say the last one occurs at 12:30. Haygood rides down Houston Street, turns onto Elm and goes down to the underpass and attempts to ride his bike up over the curb. Failing this, he parks his bike and runs up the hill, or as his says in his testimony, "to the railroad yard." He looks around and sees "nothing" except people running around. The his says he went back to his radio, which is on his bike. But, Mr, Belin, apparently lacking good sense at this point, asks him if he talked to anybody in the railroad yard. Haygood says he talked to a man he "presumed" to be a railroad detective. The reason for this presumption is not explained. Haygood does not remember what he said. Anyway, back at the bike, he doesn't get on the radio yet. He talks to one witness who says the president got shot in the head. That guy said he didn't know where the shots came from. Then he talked to James Tague about his cheek's brush with death. Then he talked to another witness who said of the TSBD, "...there was something in the building, he couldn't determine what it was, but it was just something there that he couldn't explain, but he was definite that the shots did come from there." Yikes! That sounds familiar. Yeah, the guy just before Haygood testified, Bobby Hargis, had told the WC, "Well, at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me. There wasn't any way in the world I could tell where they were coming from, but at the time there was something in my head that said that they probably could have been coming from the railroad overpass..." These guys must have the same writer. Anyway, after all of this, then he calls in at 12:34-12:35. It took less than 5 minutes from the time he was on Main Street for all of that to happen. Interesting.
On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, your idea that it is Hargis in the Cabluck photo is an interesting notion. Everybody says it is Haygood and Hargis did not testify to going up there. But, I think it is a possibility. If it really had been Hargis, that would mean that he ran directly from where he stopped his bike when the president was shot to what he thought was the source of the shots and saw my rifle man there. This in fact was my original interpretation. But, the various photographs seem to suggest that Hargis had actually got back to his bike and left before the press bus carrying Cabluck came by. A photo shows Hargis approaching his bike while Jean Hill is still sitting down. Another photo, when Jean Hill and most everybody else had already stood up again, shows a bus approaching the underpass while a notorcycle cop is about to reach the top. That can't be Hargis, and that is probably Cabluck's bus. I'm not going to upload all this stuff, since it is already a generally accepted fact that the Cabluck photo is of Haygood.
> > and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man
> > dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a
> Show me the walkie-talkie.
> > gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely
> > that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make
> If you could show us the guy maybe we'd know who he is, where he was and
> what he reported seeing and hearing. Remember, most witnesses only heard
> the shots or saw the effects of the shots and did not actually see them
> fired. For instance Baker knew instantly from the sound that the shots
> came from a high floor of the TSBD in the eastern corner.
> > any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he
> > still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like
> > he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could
> Who ran up there with a gun in his hand? Only Joe Smith.
Hargis was gun-drawn when he ran to the light pole on Elm Street, and is still gun drawn as he is scanning the area, according to Dick Sprague and the Bell film.
> > he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy
> > never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet,
> Yeah, so what? Maybe the WC knew better than to ask.
> Maybe Bowles did.
> > there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and
> > where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting
> Show me the tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting away from it.
> I think the only cloud of smoke drifting away stems from what you are
> smoking.
> > away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass.
> > How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer
> Maybe somebody did. Maybe there is a recorded interview that you don't
> know about. How about Rosemary Willis. She waited until she grew up to
> be the first person to mention seeing the man behind the retaining wall.
> > Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the
> > shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots
> I think what he means is that a spectator who was close to the moment of
> the head shot.
> > came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they
> > were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him,
> > unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say,
> > "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think
> > this is weird?
> Don't expect perfect English from a Dallas cop.
Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect" as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect, kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> As can be seen on the transcript of DPD radio communications, Chief Curry
>>> said at 12:30-12:31, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see
>>> what happened up there." What happened up there, many people, including
>>> Chief Curry and Officer Hargis, apparently thought was that somebody had
>>> been shooting at the presidential limousine.
>>> Officer Haygood was the first officer to get up there and he reported in
>>> at 12:34-12:35, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to
>>> it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book
>>> Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
>>> You can see in the Cabluck photo that Haygood is the first cop up there,
>> It would help if you could upload the photo you are talking about.
>> Hargis was up in that area also so we don't know if you are sure which
>> was which. Hargis is the motorcycle cop wearing black gloves. Haygood
>> was not.
> There is absolutely no proof that Hargis went to that area. None.
>>> and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man
>>> dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a
>> Show me the walkie-talkie.
>>> gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely
>>> that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make
>> If you could show us the guy maybe we'd know who he is, where he was and
>> what he reported seeing and hearing. Remember, most witnesses only heard
>> the shots or saw the effects of the shots and did not actually see them
>> fired. For instance Baker knew instantly from the sound that the shots
>> came from a high floor of the TSBD in the eastern corner.
>>> any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he
>>> still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like
>>> he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could
>> Who ran up there with a gun in his hand? Only Joe Smith.
> Hargis was gun-drawn when he ran to the light pole on Elm Street, and
> is still gun drawn as he is scanning the area, according to Dick Sprague
> and the Bell film.
Steve, the original question was about some cop running up to the grassy knoll. That was Joe Smith not Billy Hargis.
>>> he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy
>>> never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet,
>> Yeah, so what? Maybe the WC knew better than to ask.
>> Maybe Bowles did.
>>> there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and
>>> where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting
>> Show me the tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting away from it.
>> I think the only cloud of smoke drifting away stems from what you are
>> smoking.
>>> away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass.
>>> How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer
>> Maybe somebody did. Maybe there is a recorded interview that you don't
>> know about. How about Rosemary Willis. She waited until she grew up to
>> be the first person to mention seeing the man behind the retaining wall.
>>> Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the
>>> shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots
>> I think what he means is that a spectator who was close to the moment of
>> the head shot.
>>> came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they
>>> were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him,
>>> unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say,
>>> "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think
>>> this is weird?
>> Don't expect perfect English from a Dallas cop.
> Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar
> may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect"
> as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect,
> kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Actually, your idea that it is Hargis in the Cabluck photo is an
> interesting notion. Everybody says it is Haygood and Hargis did not
> testify to going up there. But, I think it is a possibility. If it really
> had been Hargis, that would mean that he ran directly from where he
> stopped his bike when the president was shot to what he thought was the
> source of the shots and saw my rifle man there. This in fact was my
> original interpretation. But, the various photographs seem to suggest that
> Hargis had actually got back to his bike and left before the press bus
> carrying Cabluck came by. A photo shows Hargis approaching his bike while
> Jean Hill is still sitting down. Another photo, when Jean Hill and most
> everybody else had already stood up again, shows a bus approaching the
> underpass while a notorcycle cop is about to reach the top. That can't be
> Hargis, and that is probably Cabluck's bus. I'm not going to upload all
> this stuff, since it is already a generally accepted fact that the Cabluck
> photo is of Haygood.
Let me ask you this simple question and see if you can figure it out.
Look at whatever photo you are talking about, don't show it to me. Can you see that the cop is wearing black gloves? Can you find any other cycle cop wearing black gloves that day? Some did.
BTW, Robert Cutler did an elaborate diagram of Hargis's movements after the last shot. He actually at one time suspected that it was Hargis who had his microphone stuck on open, not McLain. I can't remember which issue it was, but this weekend I'll look through my old Grassy Knoll Gazettes and see if I can find it. If I do I'll scan it in at 300 DPI, but try to keep the file size down with compression.
Of related interest may be some of Hargis's testimony. I've already quoted his dingy description of where he thought the shots came from. This comes after:
Mr. HARGIS. Well, then, I thought since I had looked over at the Texas Book Depository and some people looking out of the windows up there, didn't seem like they knew what was going on, but none of them were looking towards, or near anywhere the shots had been fired from. At the time I didn't know, but about the only activity I could see was on the bridge, on the railroad bridge so---
Mr. Stern.
What sort of activity was that?
Mr. HARGIS. Well, the people that were up there were just trying to get a better look at what was happening and was in a haze and running, or in a confused fashion, and I thought maybe some of them had seen who did the shooting and the rifle.
Think about this, wise ones. Belin and Stern questioned Haygood directly following Hargis. Hargis had told them that he thought the shots had come from the overpass. He also had told them that the only spectator activity he saw that indicated anybody knew where the shots had come from was on the overpass. On the day of the assassination, Haygood ran up to the overpass. We have the Cabluck photo to show it. And yet, in Haygood's session, Belin and Stern and Haygood do not once mention the overpass. DON'T YOU THINK THIS IS WEIRD?
On Friday, September 28, 2012 1:44:52 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 9/27/2012 11:25 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Actually, your idea that it is Hargis in the Cabluck photo is an
> > interesting notion. Everybody says it is Haygood and Hargis did not
> > testify to going up there. But, I think it is a possibility. If it really
> > had been Hargis, that would mean that he ran directly from where he
> > stopped his bike when the president was shot to what he thought was the
> > source of the shots and saw my rifle man there. This in fact was my
> > original interpretation. But, the various photographs seem to suggest that
> > Hargis had actually got back to his bike and left before the press bus
> > carrying Cabluck came by. A photo shows Hargis approaching his bike while
> > Jean Hill is still sitting down. Another photo, when Jean Hill and most
> > everybody else had already stood up again, shows a bus approaching the
> > underpass while a notorcycle cop is about to reach the top. That can't be
> > Hargis, and that is probably Cabluck's bus. I'm not going to upload all
> > this stuff, since it is already a generally accepted fact that the Cabluck
> > photo is of Haygood.
> Let me ask you this simple question and see if you can figure it out.
> Look at whatever photo you are talking about, don't show it to me. Can
> you see that the cop is wearing black gloves? Can you find any other
> cycle cop wearing black gloves that day? Some did.
> BTW, Robert Cutler did an elaborate diagram of Hargis's movements after
> the last shot. He actually at one time suspected that it was Hargis who
> had his microphone stuck on open, not McLain. I can't remember which
> issue it was, but this weekend I'll look through my old Grassy Knoll
> Gazettes and see if I can find it. If I do I'll scan it in at 300 DPI,
> but try to keep the file size down with compression.
There is a Cancellare photo that shows a cop standing up on the railing with nice black gloves. Maybe that's the one you had in mind. I don't know who that is, but all of the other evidence says it is not Hargis. In this picture, you can see that another motorcycle cop is already on the other side of the railing, and a crowd has gathered on the knoll side, so this is after the Cabluck photo.
On Friday, September 28, 2012 1:42:52 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 9/27/2012 11:35 PM, elpdrum...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> As can be seen on the transcript of DPD radio communications, Chief Curry
> >>> said at 12:30-12:31, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see
> >>> what happened up there." What happened up there, many people, including
> >>> Chief Curry and Officer Hargis, apparently thought was that somebody had
> >>> been shooting at the presidential limousine.
> >>> Officer Haygood was the first officer to get up there and he reported in
> >>> at 12:34-12:35, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to
> >>> it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book
> >>> Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
> >>> You can see in the Cabluck photo that Haygood is the first cop up there,
> >> It would help if you could upload the photo you are talking about.
> >> Hargis was up in that area also so we don't know if you are sure which
> >> was which. Hargis is the motorcycle cop wearing black gloves. Haygood
> >> was not.
> > There is absolutely no proof that Hargis went to that area. None.
> >>> and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man
> >>> dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a
> >> Show me the walkie-talkie.
> >>> gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely
> >>> that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make
> >> If you could show us the guy maybe we'd know who he is, where he was and
> >> what he reported seeing and hearing. Remember, most witnesses only heard
> >> the shots or saw the effects of the shots and did not actually see them
> >> fired. For instance Baker knew instantly from the sound that the shots
> >> came from a high floor of the TSBD in the eastern corner.
> >>> any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he
> >>> still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like
> >>> he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could
> >> Who ran up there with a gun in his hand? Only Joe Smith.
> > Hargis was gun-drawn when he ran to the light pole on Elm Street, and
> > is still gun drawn as he is scanning the area, according to Dick Sprague
> > and the Bell film.
> Steve, the original question was about some cop running up to the grassy
> knoll. That was Joe Smith not Billy Hargis.
"Billy" Hargis was never in Dealey Plaza. Bobby Hargis was. Regardless of that, Bobby Hargis never said he ran up the knoll. He ran to the light pole on the north side of the street, stood there for several seconds, was filmed by at least two motion picture camera's Mal Couch and F.M. Bell hile at the light pole. Both Bell and Couch's camera's captured him in motion, running back to his parked motorcycle in the middle of the south lane of Elm Street. Wilma Bond snapped her 4th photograph which shows Hargis in mid-step, just about to reach his motorcycle. Richard Bothun then snapped his 4th photograph showing Hargis after he boarded his motorcycle. He described what his next movements to the Warren Commission after he got back onto his motorcycle. FYI. I am the person who first pointed out the fact that Hargis was wearing gloves to R.B. Cutler and others, who were working on the acoustics with me back in 1980.
> >>> he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy
> >>> never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet,
> >> Yeah, so what? Maybe the WC knew better than to ask.
> >> Maybe Bowles did.
> >>> there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and
> >>> where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting
> >> Show me the tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting away from it.
> >> I think the only cloud of smoke drifting away stems from what you are
> >> smoking.
> >>> away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass.
> >>> How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer
> >> Maybe somebody did. Maybe there is a recorded interview that you don't
> >> know about. How about Rosemary Willis. She waited until she grew up to
> >> be the first person to mention seeing the man behind the retaining wall.
> >>> Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the
> >>> shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots
> >> I think what he means is that a spectator who was close to the moment of
> >> the head shot.
> >>> came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they
> >>> were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him,
> >>> unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say,
> >>> "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think
> >>> this is weird?
> >> Don't expect perfect English from a Dallas cop.
> > Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar
> > may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect"
> > as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect,
> > kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
"Billy" Hargis was never in Dealey Plaza. Bobby Hargis was. Regardless of that, Bobby Hargis never said he ran up the knoll. He ran to the light pole on the north side of the street, stood there for several seconds, was filmed by at least two motion picture camera's Mal Couch and F.M. Bell hile at the light pole. Both Bell and Couch's camera's captured him in motion, running back to his parked motorcycle in the middle of the south lane of Elm Street. Wilma Bond snapped her 4th photograph which shows Hargis in mid-step, just about to reach his motorcycle. Richard Bothun then snapped his 4th photograph showing Hargis after he boarded his motorcycle. He described what his next movements to the Warren Commission after he got back onto his motorcycle. FYI. I am the person who first pointed to the fact that Hargis was wearing gloves to R.B. Cutler and others, who were working on the acoustics with me back in 1980.
On 9/28/2012 3:11 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Think about this, wise ones. Belin and Stern questioned Haygood directly
> following Hargis. Hargis had told them that he thought the shots had come
> from the overpass. He also had told them that the only spectator activity
> he saw that indicated anybody knew where the shots had come from was on
> the overpass. On the day of the assassination, Haygood ran up to the
> overpass. We have the Cabluck photo to show it. And yet, in Haygood's
> session, Belin and Stern and Haygood do not once mention the overpass.
> DON'T YOU THINK THIS IS WEIRD?
No, they should have been fired if they did. As a prosecutor you should know better than to ask any question which creates reasonable doubt.
For example, Liebeler did not ask Joe Smith about the fake SS agent on the grassy knoll. Smith brought it up himself spontaneously as an afterthought.
On Friday, September 28, 2012 1:44:52 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 9/27/2012 11:25 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
Also, I notice that Hargis seems to have a bright white spot between his glove and his sleeve in several pictures, on his left hand at least. The cop in the Cancellare photo does not have this. Also, it looks as if Haygood, when he's running up on the Bell film, is wearing gloves, though I'm not certain.
On Friday, September 28, 2012 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Saintly Oswald wrote:
> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:35:26 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> > Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar
> > may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect"
> > as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect,
> > kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
> I don't know where he's from, but somebody here masquerading as "Unknown"
> has a strange notion of respect.
I do not know why my name isn't coming up, but my name is Steve Barber. I'm not "masquerading". Ever since G mail changed everything (and they shouldn't have) I have been seeing my postings as "me" in the newsgroup.
> On Friday, September 28, 2012 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Saintly Oswald wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:35:26 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
>>> Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar
>>> may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect"
>>> as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect,
>>> kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
>> I don't know where he's from, but somebody here masquerading as "Unknown"
>> has a strange notion of respect.
> I do not know why my name isn't coming up, but my name is Steve Barber.
> I'm not "masquerading". Ever since G mail changed everything (and they
> shouldn't have) I have been seeing my postings as "me" in the newsgroup.
Nothing wrong with using multiple aliases. I already replied to your message addressing you as Steve. You try to include drummer or drumrolls in each of your aliases. But if you can't remember which alias you are using for which newsgroup you could at least sign the messages here with your real name.
> On Friday, September 28, 2012 1:42:52 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 9/27/2012 11:35 PM, elpdrum...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> As can be seen on the transcript of DPD radio communications, Chief Curry
>>>>> said at 12:30-12:31, "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see
>>>>> what happened up there." What happened up there, many people, including
>>>>> Chief Curry and Officer Hargis, apparently thought was that somebody had
>>>>> been shooting at the presidential limousine.
>>>>> Officer Haygood was the first officer to get up there and he reported in
>>>>> at 12:34-12:35, "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to
>>>>> it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book
>>>>> Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
>>>>> You can see in the Cabluck photo that Haygood is the first cop up there,
>>>> It would help if you could upload the photo you are talking about.
>>>> Hargis was up in that area also so we don't know if you are sure which
>>>> was which. Hargis is the motorcycle cop wearing black gloves. Haygood
>>>> was not.
>>> There is absolutely no proof that Hargis went to that area. None.
>>>>> and the person he's looking at, the closest person to him, is a man
>>>>> dressed as a DPD detectve, apparently talking on a walkie talkie, and a
>>>> Show me the walkie-talkie.
>>>>> gun leaned up on the concrete railing in front of him. I think it's likely
>>>>> that this is Haygood's "guy standing close to it," but how does he make
>>>> If you could show us the guy maybe we'd know who he is, where he was and
>>>> what he reported seeing and hearing. Remember, most witnesses only heard
>>>> the shots or saw the effects of the shots and did not actually see them
>>>> fired. For instance Baker knew instantly from the sound that the shots
>>>> came from a high floor of the TSBD in the eastern corner.
>>>>> any sense? If he had somehow run up there before Haygood, wouldn't he
>>>>> still have his gun in his hands and be looking for snipers? It looks like
>>>>> he's settled in very comfortably and chatting to somebody. But, who could
>>>> Who ran up there with a gun in his hand? Only Joe Smith.
>>> Hargis was gun-drawn when he ran to the light pole on Elm Street, and
>>> is still gun drawn as he is scanning the area, according to Dick Sprague
>>> and the Bell film.
>> Steve, the original question was about some cop running up to the grassy
>> knoll. That was Joe Smith not Billy Hargis.
> "Billy" Hargis was never in Dealey Plaza. Bobby Hargis was. Regardless of
Yes, Bobby Hargis.
> that, Bobby Hargis never said he ran up the knoll. He ran to the light
> pole on the north side of the street, stood there for several seconds, was
> filmed by at least two motion picture camera's Mal Couch and F.M. Bell
> hile at the light pole. Both Bell and Couch's camera's captured him in
> motion, running back to his parked motorcycle in the middle of the south
> lane of Elm Street. Wilma Bond snapped her 4th photograph which shows
> Hargis in mid-step, just about to reach his motorcycle. Richard Bothun
> then snapped his 4th photograph showing Hargis after he boarded his
> motorcycle. He described what his next movements to the Warren Commission
> after he got back onto his motorcycle. FYI. I am the person who first
> pointed out the fact that Hargis was wearing gloves to R.B. Cutler and
> others, who were working on the acoustics with me back in 1980.
So did you really think that it was Hargis whose cycle had the microphone stuck on? Do you remember which issue of the Grassy Knoll Gazette has the diagram where Cutler explains your theory and Hargis's movements?
>>>>> he be chatting to? He's obviously not on the police channels. This guy
>>>>> never got mentioned in the Warren Commission testimony of Haygood. Yet,
>>>> Yeah, so what? Maybe the WC knew better than to ask.
>>>> Maybe Bowles did.
>>>>> there he is with a gun where several people thought shots originated, and
>>>>> where the Weigman film shows a tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting
>>>> Show me the tiny figure with a cloud of smoke drifting away from it.
>>>> I think the only cloud of smoke drifting away stems from what you are
>>>> smoking.
>>>>> away from it while the presidential limousine starts under the underpass.
>>>>> How can nobody mention this guy for 60 years? And what does Officer
>>>> Maybe somebody did. Maybe there is a recorded interview that you don't
>>>> know about. How about Rosemary Willis. She waited until she grew up to
>>>> be the first person to mention seeing the man behind the retaining wall.
>>>>> Haygood mean, that somebody close to what happened on the bridge says the
>>>>> shots came from the TSBD? All the railroad guys up there thought the shots
>>>> I think what he means is that a spectator who was close to the moment of
>>>> the head shot.
>>>>> came from the fence, which is the direction of this guy from where they
>>>>> were. Seeing this guy there with a gun, why would Haygood believe him,
>>>>> unless he was a Dallas cop? But if he is a Dallas cop, why doesn't he say,
>>>>> "Lt. So-and-so said the shots came from the TSBD?" Doesn't anybody think
>>>>> this is weird?
>>>> Don't expect perfect English from a Dallas cop.
>>> Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar
>>> may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect"
>>> as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect,
>>> kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
> "Billy" Hargis was never in Dealey Plaza. Bobby Hargis was. Regardless
> of that, Bobby Hargis never said he ran up the knoll. He ran to the light
> pole on the north side of the street, stood there for several seconds, was
> filmed by at least two motion picture camera's Mal Couch and F.M. Bell
> hile at the light pole. Both Bell and Couch's camera's captured him in
> motion, running back to his parked motorcycle in the middle of the south
> lane of Elm Street. Wilma Bond snapped her 4th photograph which shows
> Hargis in mid-step, just about to reach his motorcycle. Richard Bothun
> then snapped his 4th photograph showing Hargis after he boarded his
> motorcycle. He described what his next movements to the Warren Commission
> after he got back onto his motorcycle. FYI. I am the person who first
> pointed to the fact that Hargis was wearing gloves to R.B. Cutler and
> others, who were working on the acoustics with me back in 1980.
On Friday, September 28, 2012 9:18:11 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> On Friday, September 28, 2012 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Saintly Oswald wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:35:26 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> > > Oh, don't worry Tony, we won't. Their English is fine, but the grammar
> > > may not be perfect. However we can't expect everyone to talk as "perfect"
> > > as you think you do, any more than we can expect courtesy, respect,
> > > kindness and dignity from people who live in Massachusetts.
> > I don't know where he's from, but somebody here masquerading as "Unknown"
> > has a strange notion of respect.
> I do not know why my name isn't coming up, but my name is Steve Barber.
> I'm not "masquerading". Ever since G mail changed everything (and they
> shouldn't have) I have been seeing my postings as "me" in the newsgroup.
Yes, I think my comment was in error. I assumed you were showing us lack of respect by hiding the fact that you were a board regular and sniping as "unknown." Not that I think your actually name is important, I don't know Steve Barber from CrazyHickDude, but I think it is unethical to use multiple names.
> On Friday, September 28, 2012 1:44:52 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 9/27/2012 11:25 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/2012 10:15 PM, fatoldcr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Actually, your idea that it is Hargis in the Cabluck photo is an
>>> interesting notion. Everybody says it is Haygood and Hargis did not
>>> testify to going up there. But, I think it is a possibility. If it really
>>> had been Hargis, that would mean that he ran directly from where he
>>> stopped his bike when the president was shot to what he thought was the
>>> source of the shots and saw my rifle man there. This in fact was my
>>> original interpretation. But, the various photographs seem to suggest that
>>> Hargis had actually got back to his bike and left before the press bus
>>> carrying Cabluck came by. A photo shows Hargis approaching his bike while
>>> Jean Hill is still sitting down. Another photo, when Jean Hill and most
>>> everybody else had already stood up again, shows a bus approaching the
>>> underpass while a notorcycle cop is about to reach the top. That can't be
>>> Hargis, and that is probably Cabluck's bus. I'm not going to upload all
>>> this stuff, since it is already a generally accepted fact that the Cabluck
>>> photo is of Haygood.
>> Let me ask you this simple question and see if you can figure it out.
>> Look at whatever photo you are talking about, don't show it to me. Can
>> you see that the cop is wearing black gloves? Can you find any other
>> cycle cop wearing black gloves that day? Some did.
>> BTW, Robert Cutler did an elaborate diagram of Hargis's movements after
>> the last shot. He actually at one time suspected that it was Hargis who
>> had his microphone stuck on open, not McLain. I can't remember which
>> issue it was, but this weekend I'll look through my old Grassy Knoll
>> Gazettes and see if I can find it. If I do I'll scan it in at 300 DPI,
>> but try to keep the file size down with compression.
> There is a Cancellare photo that shows a cop standing up on the railing
> with nice black gloves. Maybe that's the one you had in mind. I don't know
> who that is, but all of the other evidence says it is not Hargis. In this
> picture, you can see that another motorcycle cop is already on the other
> side of the railing, and a crowd has gathered on the knoll side, so this
> is after the Cabluck photo.
Ok, show me a photo of amy OTHER cop other than Hargis in Dealey Plaza wearing black gloves. Steve Barber just said that he was the first to point out that Hargis was wearing black gloves.
Is the other cop Haygood? Do you know what clues to look for to tell the difference between a traffic cop or beat cop from a motorcycle cop? Most of the cops on the ground in Dealey Plaza did not wear helmets.
