Amos Lee Euins - Statement on JFK Assassination - Awesome Stories
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23k - similar pagesAmos Lee Euins - Statement on JFK Assassination.
The following affidavit is from the Warren Commission, Exhibit 1978.
It is a sworn statement from a teenager ...
The following affidavit is from the Warren Commission, Exhibit 1978.
It is a sworn statement from a teenager who had information on the
shooting.
VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS
Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November
A.D. 1963 personally appeared Amos Lee Euins Address 411 Avenue F,
Dallas, Texas Age 15 , Phone No. WH 3-9701
Deposes and says:
I am presently going to school at Franklin D. Roosevelt high School and am in the 9th grade. I got out of school this morning to see the President of the United States when he came to Dallas. I was standing on the corner of Elm and Houston street. From where I was standing I could look across the street and see a large red brick building. I saw the President turn the corner in front of me and I waived at him and he waived back. I watched the car on down the street and about the time the car got back near the black and white sign I heard a shot. I started looking around and then I looked up in the red brick building. I saw a man in a window with a gun and I saw him shoot twice. He then stepped back behind some boxes. I could tell the gun was a rifle and it sounded like an automatic rifle the way he was shooting. I just saw a little bit of the barrel, and some of the trigger housing. This was a white man, he did not have on a hat. I just saw this man for a few seconds. As far as I know, I had never seen this man before.
/s/ Amos Lee Euins
Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D.
1963
/s/ C. M. Jones
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what kind of a look, if any, did you have at the man
who was there?
Mr. EUINS. All I got to see was the man with a spot in his head,
because he had his head something like this.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating his face down, looking down the rifle?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir: and I could see the spot on his head.
Mr. SPECTER. How would you describe that man for us?
Mr. EUINS. I wouldn't know how to describe him, because all I could
see was the spot and his hand.
Mr. SPECTER. Was he slender or was he fat?
Mr. EUINS. I didn't get to see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell from where you looked whether he was tall
or short?
Mr. EUINS. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Of what race was he, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. I couldn't tell, because these boxes were throwing a
reflection, shaded.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell whether he was a Negro gentleman or a
white man?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Couldn't even tell that? But you have described that he
had a bald--
Mr. EUINS. Spot in his head. Yes, sir; I could see the bald spot in
his head.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, could you tell what color hair he had?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell whether his hair was dark or light?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. How far back did the bald spot on his head go?
Mr. EUINS. I would say about right along in here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating about 2 1/2 inches above where you hairline
is. Is that about what you are saying?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; right along in here.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you get a very good look at that man, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to tell anything about the clothes he was
wearing?
Mr. EUINS: No, sir.
207
Mr. SPECTER. Now, when you were at the sheriff's department in the
police station that you have described, did they ask you to sign an
affidavit or statement for them, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. I now show you a paper, Amos, which I have marked as
Commission Exhibit No. 367.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 367 for
identification.)
Mr. SPECTER. This is supposed to be a statement which is signed. Let
me first point out to you that it is a copy of it. I ask you if this
is a copy of your signature?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Now, will you take your time, Amos, and read that over, and then I
want to ask you a couple of questions about it.
Did you have a chance to read it over?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Let me ask you about a couple of specific things here, Amos.
In the statement you say here that he was a white man. By reading the
statement, does that refresh your memory as to whether he was a white
man or not?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I told the man that I could see a white spot on
his head, but I didn't actually say it was a white man. I said I
couldn't tell. But I saw a white spot in his head.
Mr. SPECTER. Your best recollection at this moment is you still don't
know whether he was a white man or a Negro? All you can say is that
you saw a white spot on his head?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Then, did you tell the people at the police station that
he was a white man, or did they make a mistake when they wrote that
down here?
Mr. EUINS. They must have made a mistake, because I told them I could
see a white spot on his head.
> Amos Lee Euins - Statement on JFK Assassination - Awesome Stories
> http://www.awesomestories.com / assets / amos-lee-euins-statement... -
> 23k - similar pagesAmos Lee Euins - Statement on JFK Assassination.
> The following affidavit is from the Warren Commission, Exhibit 1978.
> It is a sworn statement from a teenager ...
> The following affidavit is from the Warren Commission, Exhibit 1978.
> It is a sworn statement from a teenager who had information on the
> shooting.
> VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86
> SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
> COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS
> Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November
> A.D. 1963 personally appeared Amos Lee Euins Address 411 Avenue F,
> Dallas, Texas Age 15 , Phone No. WH 3-9701
> Deposes and says:
> I am presently going to school at Franklin D. Roosevelt high School and am
> in the 9th grade. I got out of school this morning to see the President of
> the United States when he came to Dallas. I was standing on the corner of
> Elm and Houston street. From where I was standing I could look across the
> street and see a large red brick building. I saw the President turn the
> corner in front of me and I waived at him and he waived back. I watched
> the car on down the street and about the time the car got back near the
> black and white sign I heard a shot. I started looking around and then I
> looked up in the red brick building. I saw a man in a window with a gun
> and I saw him shoot twice. He then stepped back behind some boxes. I could
> tell the gun was a rifle and it sounded like an automatic rifle the way he
> was shooting. I just saw a little bit of the barrel, and some of the
> trigger housing. This was a white man, he did not have on a hat. I just
> saw this man for a few seconds. As far as I know, I had never seen this
> man before.
> /s/ Amos Lee Euins
> Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D.
> 1963
> /s/ C. M. Jones
> Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
> Credits
> Text, from Warren Commission Exhibit 1978
> Mr. SPECTER. Now, what kind of a look, if any, did you have at the man
> who was there?
> Mr. EUINS. All I got to see was the man with a spot in his head,
> because he had his head something like this.
> Mr. SPECTER. Indicating his face down, looking down the rifle?
> Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir: and I could see the spot on his head.
> Mr. SPECTER. How would you describe that man for us?
> Mr. EUINS. I wouldn't know how to describe him, because all I could
> see was the spot and his hand.
> Mr. SPECTER. Was he slender or was he fat?
> Mr. EUINS. I didn't get to see him.
> Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell from where you looked whether he was tall
> or short?
> Mr. EUINS. No.
> Mr. SPECTER. Of what race was he, Amos?
> Mr. EUINS. I couldn't tell, because these boxes were throwing a
> reflection, shaded.
> Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell whether he was a Negro gentleman or a
> white man?
> Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. Couldn't even tell that? But you have described that he
> had a bald--
> Mr. EUINS. Spot in his head. Yes, sir; I could see the bald spot in
> his head.
> Mr. SPECTER. Now, could you tell what color hair he had?
> Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell whether his hair was dark or light?
> Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. How far back did the bald spot on his head go?
> Mr. EUINS. I would say about right along in here.
> Mr. SPECTER. Indicating about 2 1/2 inches above where you hairline
> is. Is that about what you are saying?
> Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; right along in here.
> Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you get a very good look at that man, Amos?
> Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I did not.
> Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to tell anything about the clothes he was
> wearing?
> Mr. EUINS: No, sir.
> 207
> Mr. SPECTER. Now, when you were at the sheriff's department in the
> police station that you have described, did they ask you to sign an
> affidavit or statement for them, Amos?
> Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. I now show you a paper, Amos, which I have marked as
> Commission Exhibit No. 367.
> (The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 367 for
> identification.)
> Mr. SPECTER. This is supposed to be a statement which is signed. Let
> me first point out to you that it is a copy of it. I ask you if this
> is a copy of your signature?
> Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. All right.
> Now, will you take your time, Amos, and read that over, and then I
> want to ask you a couple of questions about it.
> Did you have a chance to read it over?
> Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. All right.
> Let me ask you about a couple of specific things here, Amos.
> In the statement you say here that he was a white man. By reading the
> statement, does that refresh your memory as to whether he was a white
> man or not?
> Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I told the man that I could see a white spot on
> his head, but I didn't actually say it was a white man. I said I
> couldn't tell. But I saw a white spot in his head.
> Mr. SPECTER. Your best recollection at this moment is you still don't
> know whether he was a white man or a Negro? All you can say is that
> you saw a white spot on his head?
> Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
> Mr. SPECTER. Then, did you tell the people at the police station that
> he was a white man, or did they make a mistake when they wrote that
> down here?
> Mr. EUINS. They must have made a mistake, because I told them I could
> see a white spot on his head.
As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II: [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
Euins did not make that claim in his sworn statement the day of the crime, nor did he testify to that effect in his Q&A before the Warren Commission Panel. He even denied he saw a white man fire at the President, that the sniper was in the shadows so he couldn't tell what color the assassin was.
What he could see was a white spot on the head of this sniper. There was no black employee of the TSBD with a white spot on his head leaning out a window. None of the three black employees looking out the 5th floor windows had a white spot on their head nor did they have a rifle. LHO did have a rifle and a bald spot on his left forehead, so it is likely Euins did see a sunshine reflection off of his head while firing at the President. Euins would have been looking at the sniper's left profile from his position down on the street in Dealey Plaza.
> As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
Not misquoted. It is what he told a cop and two reporters IMMEDIATELY after the shooting.
> Euins did not make that claim in his sworn statement the day of the crime,
> nor did he testify to that effect in his Q&A before the Warren Commission
> Panel. He even denied he saw a white man fire at the President, that the
> sniper was in the shadows so he couldn't tell what color the assassin was.
Because he was warned by the DPD that it might start a race riot.
> What he could see was a white spot on the head of this sniper. There was
> no black employee of the TSBD with a white spot on his head leaning out a
> window. None of the three black employees looking out the 5th floor
Sure there was. Look at the Dillard photo.
> windows had a white spot on their head nor did they have a rifle. LHO did
> have a rifle and a bald spot on his left forehead, so it is likely Euins
> did see a sunshine reflection off of his head while firing at the
> President. Euins would have been looking at the sniper's left profile
> from his position down on the street in Dealey Plaza.
He could not see the shooter's head and he never said he saw the shooter firing. You are adding your own theories.
On Aug 9, 10:33 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 8/8/2012 9:39 PM, claviger wrote:
> > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> Not misquoted. It is what he told a cop and two reporters IMMEDIATELY
> after the shooting.
Cite please. Hearsay evidence is not as reliable because the earwitness may hear it wrong or misunderstand what they heard. Especially in the noise and chaos of an event like this. That is why a sworn statement in an office with a calming atmosphere is better to hear and record important information.
Direct statements under oath are legal documents. Euins may have confused one of the black porters on the 5th floor and realized his mistake later.
None of the black porters had a white spot on their head or a gun in their hands. The person Euins saw had both.
> > Euins did not make that claim in his sworn statement the day of the crime,
> > nor did he testify to that effect in his Q&A before the Warren Commission
> > Panel. He even denied he saw a white man fire at the President, that the
> > sniper was in the shadows so he couldn't tell what color the assassin was.
> Because he was warned by the DPD that it might start a race riot.
Cite please.
> > What he could see was a white spot on the head of this sniper. There was
> > no black employee of the TSBD with a white spot on his head leaning out a
> > window. None of the three black employees looking out the 5th floor
> Sure there was. Look at the Dillard photo.
Why did you not include a link?
> > windows had a white spot on their head nor did they have a rifle. LHO did
> > have a rifle and a bald spot on his left forehead, so it is likely Euins
> > did see a sunshine reflection off of his head while firing at the
> > President. Euins would have been looking at the sniper's left profile
> > from his position down on the street in Dealey Plaza.
> He could not see the shooter's head and he never said he saw the shooter
> firing. You are adding your own theories.
Bonnnnnggg!!! That is the Wrong-Gong you just set off by making an incorrect statement. Read the first post above again. Then read the testimony below one more time. Perhaps you need to take a remedial Reading Comprehension class. If one is not available try an ESL course.
It is painfully obvious there is important information in these two legal documents you have overlooked or misread.
On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this, but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
> he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
> Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
> but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
> dcw
So all you need to do now is find a black suspect with a white spot on
his head and you will solve the crime. Did he have a Carcano too?
What window did he fire from? We have another witness who saw a white
guy in the 6th floor window with a rifle. Did the white guy and black
guy take turns firing at the motorcade?
On Thursday, August 9, 2012 3:56:17 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> On Aug 9, 10:33 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On 8/8/2012 9:39 PM, claviger wrote:
> > > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> > Not misquoted. It is what he told a cop and two reporters IMMEDIATELY
> > after the shooting.
> Cite please. Hearsay evidence is not as reliable because the earwitness
> may hear it wrong or misunderstand what they heard. Especially in the
> noise and chaos of an event like this. That is why a sworn statement in
> an office with a calming atmosphere is better to hear and record important
> information.
> Direct statements under oath are legal documents. Euins may have confused
> one of the black porters on the 5th floor and realized his mistake later.
> None of the black porters had a white spot on their head or a gun in their
> hands. The person Euins saw had both.
> > > Euins did not make that claim in his sworn statement the day of the crime,
> > > nor did he testify to that effect in his Q&A before the Warren Commission
> > > Panel. He even denied he saw a white man fire at the President, that the
> > > sniper was in the shadows so he couldn't tell what color the assassin was.
> > Because he was warned by the DPD that it might start a race riot.
> Cite please.
Of course he won't give you a cite. This is the kind of crap he makes up because it sounds good to him. If such a statement had been made, how the hell would he know about it?
On Friday, August 10, 2012 2:49:22 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
> he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
> Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
> but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
> dcw
Euins sworn statement before the WC was that he could not tell whether the shooter was white or black. His signed statement was that it was a white man although he did not write that statement. It was prepared for him by those who had questioned him and apparently they misinterpreted what he had told them. Similarly, the reporter(s) may have misunderstood what they heard Euins say. He may have said he also saw the black men on the floor below and they took that to mean he was refering to the shooter. We just don't know what he told the cop or what the reporters actually heard.
On Friday, August 10, 2012 9:23:12 AM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> On Aug 10, 1:49 am, seansmileyran...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> > > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> > Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
> > he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
> > Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
> > but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
> > dcw
> So all you need to do now is find a black suspect with a white spot on
> his head and you will solve the crime. Did he have a Carcano too?
> What window did he fire from? We have another witness who saw a white
> guy in the 6th floor window with a rifle. Did the white guy and black
> guy take turns firing at the motorcade?
A Mrs Walthers saw a white man with a rifle on a floor no higher than the 5th. Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window. Euins changed his description of the shooter from one statement to the next. Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too. And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end". So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
On Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:56:17 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> On Aug 9, 10:33 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On 8/8/2012 9:39 PM, claviger wrote:
> > > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> > Not misquoted. It is what he told a cop and two reporters IMMEDIATELY
> > after the shooting.
> Cite please. Hearsay evidence is not as reliable because the earwitness
> may hear it wrong or misunderstand what they heard. Especially in the
> noise and chaos of an event like this. That is why a sworn statement in
> an office with a calming atmosphere is better to hear and record important
> information.
Unfortunately, Euins had to contradict his "sworn statement", later, at the hearings. The "white man" has become a "white spot" (v2p208). So much for calm, correct statements....
On Friday, August 10, 2012 1:19:53 PM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
> On Friday, August 10, 2012 2:49:22 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> > > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> > Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
> > he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
> > Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
> > but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
> > dcw
> Euins sworn statement before the WC was that he could not tell whether the
> shooter was white or black. His signed statement was that it was a white
> man although he did not write that statement. It was prepared for him by
> those who had questioned him and apparently they misinterpreted what he
> had told them. Similarly, the reporter(s) may have misunderstood what they
> heard Euins say. He may have said he also saw the black men on the floor
> below and they took that to mean he was refering to the shooter. We just
> don't know what he told the cop or what the reporters actually heard.
Bigdog,
You failed to use basic CT logic. If anything supports in some way the idea that Oswald didn't do it alone, then that must be the truth. Even if it doesn't make any sense or fit with other evidence to form a coherent picture.
And how dare you suggest a reporter might have misheard or misinterpreted what someone said! All of us who have ever been quoted in print know that that could never happen.
Don't know why you bother. I suppose every so often there might be someone with a genuine interest who will listen to the refutation of the CT scatter-shot arguments. But most of the time just a waste of time and energy.
> A Mrs Walthers saw a white man with a rifle on a floor no higher than the
> 5th.
No corroboration and she had a co-worker named Mrs. Pearl Springer standing right next to her who did not see anything like that, nor did Mrs. Walther say anything at the time about a man with a gun in a window.
Mrs. Eric Carolyn Walther made a voluntary statement to the FBI almost two weeks later (12/5/63). She was called as a witness in the Clay Shaw trial and testified under another name, Mrs. Elizabeth Carolyn Walton.
> Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window.
Multiple corroboration of a rifle in the 6th floor window and shots fired from that window.
> Euins changed his description of the shooter from one statement to the next.
Not according to him. He claims the person taking his statement misunderstood what he was trying to say. Keep in mind he was a nervous 15 year old kid. The person taking his statement may have assumed the white spot was probably a bald spot, a description more likely on a white man than a black man. There is no evidence whatsoever a black employee or any other black person fired a rifle at the motorcade.
> Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too.
Cite please.
> And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end".
Cite please.
> So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
To some degree, but enough witnesses got it right to provide corroboration. Empty shells were found under the 6th floor window inside the sniper's nest and the rifle was found on the same floor. So most of the witnesses got it right, and we can understand why there might be some confusion given the circumstances.
> Unfortunately, Euins had to contradict his "sworn statement", later, at
> the hearings. The "white man" has become a "white spot" (v2p208). So
> much for calm, correct statements....
Not according to Euins. He said there was confusion about a white spot on a man in the shadows, not a white man in the shadows. A prominent white spot on a black man would certainly be noticeable to anyone, especially if he had a rifle in his hand. No one who fit that description was seen by any witness, including Amos Euins.
> On Friday, August 10, 2012 2:49:22 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
>>> As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
>>> 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
>>> [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
>>> 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
>>> President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
>>> saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
>> Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
>> he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
>> Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
>> but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
>> dcw
> Euins sworn statement before the WC was that he could not tell whether the
> shooter was white or black. His signed statement was that it was a white
> man although he did not write that statement. It was prepared for him by
> those who had questioned him and apparently they misinterpreted what he
> had told them. Similarly, the reporter(s) may have misunderstood what they
> heard Euins say. He may have said he also saw the black men on the floor
Again you fail to study. Underwood overheard Euins telling a cop that it was a black man. Again you fail to read your own beloved WC.
Mr. Ball.
Euins?
Mr. UNDERWOOD.
It may have been Euins. It was difficult to understand when he said his name. He was telling the motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man lean out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle. He was telling this to the officer and the officer took him over and put him in a squad car. By that time, motorcycle officers were arriving, homicide officers were arriving and I went over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and he said "Yes, sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said, "It was a colored man." I said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He said, "Yes, sir" and I asked him his name and the only thing I could understand was what I thought his name was Eunice.
And Kent Biffle was with him and head the boy say it was a black man.
> below and they took that to mean he was refering to the shooter. We just
> don't know what he told the cop or what the reporters actually heard.
>> A Mrs Walthers saw a white man with a rifle on a floor no higher than the
>> 5th.
> No corroboration and she had a co-worker named Mrs. Pearl Springer
> standing right next to her who did not see anything like that, nor did
> Mrs. Walther say anything at the time about a man with a gun in a window.
> Mrs. Eric Carolyn Walther made a voluntary statement to the FBI almost two
> weeks later (12/5/63). She was called as a witness in the Clay Shaw trial
> and testified under another name, Mrs. Elizabeth Carolyn Walton.
>> Euins changed his description of the shooter from one statement to the next.
> Not according to him. He claims the person taking his statement
> misunderstood what he was trying to say. Keep in mind he was a nervous 15
> year old kid. The person taking his statement may have assumed the white
> spot was probably a bald spot, a description more likely on a white man
> than a black man. There is no evidence whatsoever a black employee or
> any other black person fired a rifle at the motorcade.
>> Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too.
> Cite please.
>> And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end".
> Cite please.
>> So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
> To some degree, but enough witnesses got it right to provide
> corroboration. Empty shells were found under the 6th floor window inside
> the sniper's nest and the rifle was found on the same floor. So most of
> the witnesses got it right, and we can understand why there might be some
> confusion given the circumstances.
Got what right? The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shots were fired from the TSBD.
> > On Friday, August 10, 2012 2:49:22 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> >>> As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> >>> 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> >>> [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> >>> 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> >>> President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> >>> saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> >> Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
> >> he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
> >> Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
> >> but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
> >> dcw
> > Euins sworn statement before the WC was that he could not tell whether the
> > shooter was white or black. His signed statement was that it was a white
> > man although he did not write that statement. It was prepared for him by
> > those who had questioned him and apparently they misinterpreted what he
> > had told them. Similarly, the reporter(s) may have misunderstood what they
> > heard Euins say. He may have said he also saw the black men on the floor
> Again you fail to study. Underwood overheard Euins telling a cop that it
> was a black man. Again you fail to read your own beloved WC.
> Mr. Ball.
> Euins?
> Mr. UNDERWOOD.
> It may have been Euins. It was difficult to understand when he said his
> name. He was telling the motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man lean
> out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle. He was telling this to the
> officer and the officer took him over and put him in a squad car. By that
> time, motorcycle officers were arriving, homicide officers were arriving
> and I went over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and
> he said "Yes, sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said, "It was a
> colored man." I said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He said, "Yes,
> sir" and I asked him his name and the only thing I could understand was
> what I thought his name was Eunice.
> And Kent Biffle was with him and head the boy say it was a black man.
> > below and they took that to mean he was refering to the shooter. We just
> > don't know what he told the cop or what the reporters actually heard.
> Yes, we do.
> Read the WC testimony.
Anthony,
So you believe a black man shot the President. Were two men in the 6th floor window taking turns shooting at the Limousine, one black, one white?
That would be a brilliant way to confuse any witnesses down on the street.
Is this your new theory? Did this black assassin have a white spot on his head? If so, why? Which black employee of the TSBD did the shooting?
Or did a frightened 15 year old kid confuse one of the black porters under the 6th floor window with the real assassin, LHO? Maybe when Amos calmed down he realized he couldn't tell what color the assassin was. We know LHO had a hair loss pattern somewhere between a Class 3 - Class 4 on a Norwood Scale balding pattern and parted his hair on the left, revealing a large bald spot. This would have been obvious on his left profile.
Since he was a white man Euins might refer to it as a white spot.
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> On Aug 10, 6:35 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 8/10/2012 1:19 PM, bigdog wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 10, 2012 2:49:22 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
>>>>> As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
>>>>> 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
>>>>> [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
>>>>> 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
>>>>> President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
>>>>> saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
>>>> Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said
>>>> he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
>>>> Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this,
>>>> but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
>>>> dcw
>>> Euins sworn statement before the WC was that he could not tell whether the
>>> shooter was white or black. His signed statement was that it was a white
>>> man although he did not write that statement. It was prepared for him by
>>> those who had questioned him and apparently they misinterpreted what he
>>> had told them. Similarly, the reporter(s) may have misunderstood what they
>>> heard Euins say. He may have said he also saw the black men on the floor
>> Again you fail to study. Underwood overheard Euins telling a cop that it
>> was a black man. Again you fail to read your own beloved WC.
>> Mr. Ball.
>> Euins?
>> Mr. UNDERWOOD.
>> It may have been Euins. It was difficult to understand when he said his
>> name. He was telling the motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man lean
>> out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle. He was telling this to the
>> officer and the officer took him over and put him in a squad car. By that
>> time, motorcycle officers were arriving, homicide officers were arriving
>> and I went over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and
>> he said "Yes, sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said, "It was a
>> colored man." I said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He said, "Yes,
>> sir" and I asked him his name and the only thing I could understand was
>> what I thought his name was Eunice.
>> And Kent Biffle was with him and head the boy say it was a black man.
>>> below and they took that to mean he was refering to the shooter. We just
>>> don't know what he told the cop or what the reporters actually heard.
>> Yes, we do.
>> Read the WC testimony.
> Anthony,
> So you believe a black man shot the President. Were two men in the 6th
No silly. I believe Euins made an honest mistake. I've been saying that before you ever got to this newsgroup. But you refuse to pay attention.
> floor window taking turns shooting at the Limousine, one black, one white?
> That would be a brilliant way to confuse any witnesses down on the street.
> Is this your new theory? Did this black assassin have a white spot on his
> head? If so, why? Which black employee of the TSBD did the shooting?
Some witnesses have suggested that there were two men on the sixth floor. Only one has to take the primary shots. The other could be a backup.
> Or did a frightened 15 year old kid confuse one of the black porters under
> the 6th floor window with the real assassin, LHO? Maybe when Amos calmed
> down he realized he couldn't tell what color the assassin was. We know
Maybe when someone took him aside and had a little talk with him he realized that it must not be a black man that he saw.
> LHO had a hair loss pattern somewhere between a Class 3 - Class 4 on a
> Norwood Scale balding pattern and parted his hair on the left, revealing a
> large bald spot. This would have been obvious on his left profile.
> Since he was a white man Euins might refer to it as a white spot.
Ridiculous.
What about the bald spot on the back of Lovelady's head?
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> Row 3: Pictures 1, 2
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> Scale for men or Ludwig Scale for women, at Bosley.com.
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> similar pagesCauses of Hair Loss, Bosley offers insights into the
> causes of male & female pattern baldness and how Bosley Hair
> Transplants are a permanent solution.
On Friday, August 10, 2012 4:31:45 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> Sean,
> > A Mrs Walthers saw a white man with a rifle on a floor no higher than the
> > 5th.
> No corroboration and she had a co-worker named Mrs. Pearl Springer
> standing right next to her who did not see anything like that, nor did
> Mrs. Walther say anything at the time about a man with a gun in a window.
> Mrs. Eric Carolyn Walther made a voluntary statement to the FBI almost two
> weeks later (12/5/63). She was called as a witness in the Clay Shaw trial
> and testified under another name, Mrs. Elizabeth Carolyn Walton.
Stop right there. No need to make things more confusing than they already are. I have an HSCA document. "Originator: New Orleans D.A." Subject: "Mrs. Carolyn E. Walther." "Walton" is apparently a mistake, a typo perhaps....
dcw
> > Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window.
> Multiple corroboration of a rifle in the 6th floor window and shots fired
> from that window.
Edwards & Fischer said "wide open window" & "5th floor". Brennan, Couch & Jackson said wide open window, or indicated (Jackson) wide open window. Can't be the 6th floor.
> > Euins changed his description of the shooter from one statement to the next.
> Not according to him. He claims the person taking his statement
> misunderstood what he was trying to say. Keep in mind he was a nervous 15
> year old kid. The person taking his statement may have assumed the white
> spot was probably a bald spot, a description more likely on a white man
> than a black man. There is no evidence whatsoever a black employee or
> any other black person fired a rifle at the motorcade.
Euins' 11/29/63 FBI interview: Euins "never saw anything other than what appeared to be his hand on the stock".
Euins' 12/14/63 FBI interview: "He stated he saw a man's hand on what appeared to be the trigger housing & he could also see a bald spot onthe man's head. He said he was sure this man was white, because his hand extended outside the window on the rifle."
As I said, the FBI were a bunch of doofusses who could never seem to get Euins' statements right. On 12/14, for instance, the suspect had a bald spot *and* he was white...!
dcw
> > Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too.
> Cite please.
WR testimony
> > And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end".
> Cite please.
DPD radio log 12:37pm
> > So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
> To some degree, but enough witnesses got it right to provide
> corroboration. Empty shells were found under the 6th floor window inside
> the sniper's nest
We have no way of knowing *where* they were found since Fritz (according to Mooney, Alyea & Faulkner) handled them before they could be photographed.
and the rifle was found on the same floor. So most of
> Stop right there. No need to make things more confusing than they
> already are. I have an HSCA document.
> "Originator: New Orleans D.A." Subject: "Mrs. Carolyn E. Walther."
> "Walton" is apparently a mistake, a typo perhaps....
Perhaps. Carolyn Walther was a strange witness, to say the least.
Yeuhd did some excellent research on Walther.
> > > Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window.
> > Multiple corroboration of a rifle in the 6th floor window and shots fired
> > from that window.
> Edwards & Fischer said "wide open window" & "5th floor".
> Brennan, Couch & Jackson said wide open window, or indicated
> (Jackson) wide open window. Can't be the 6th floor.
There were no "wide open" windows in the TSBN that day, reason being
those windows only opened halfway at most.
No open windows at all on the 7th floor.
There were 3 half opened windows on the 6th floor,
5 on the 5th floor, and 1 on the 4th floor.
There were a couple of 1/4 open windows, one being the sniper's nest.
> Euins' 11/29/63 FBI interview: Euins "never saw anything other than
> what appeared to be his hand on the stock".
> Euins' 12/14/63 FBI interview: "He stated he saw a man's hand on
> what appeared to be the trigger housing & he could also see a bald
> spot on the man's head. He said he was sure this man was white,
> because his hand extended outside the window on the rifle."
> As I said, the FBI were a bunch of doofusses who could never
> seem to get Euins' statements right. On 12/14, for instance,
> the suspect had a bald spot *and* he was white...!
That solves the mystery of the "white spot" and confirms my previous suggestion that a black teenager may refer to a bald spot on a white man as a "white spot". This is confirmation Euins saw the sniper on the 6th floor and corroborates witness Brenner the assassin was a white man.
Good work.
> > > Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too.
> > Cite please.
> WR testimony
No such thing as a "wide-open window" in the TSBD. Maybe they meant a
wide-open half window.
> > > And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end".
> > Cite please.
> DPD radio log 12:37pm
OK, so he got it wrong. What does this prove?
> > > So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
> > To some degree, but enough witnesses got it right to provide
> > corroboration. Empty shells were found under the 6th floor window inside
> > the sniper's nest
> We have no way of knowing *where* they were found since Fritz (according to Mooney, Alyea & Faulkner) handled them before they could be photographed.
I believe Fritz picked up one to look at it and there were other witnesses who observed the shells in situ before he did. What reason would Fritz have to rearrange the empty shells? It would be OK to do that with a pencil inside the hull and carefully place it back down with other witnesses watching, however today it is best to leave everything as is.
> > > > Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window.
> > > Multiple corroboration of a rifle in the 6th floor window and shots fired
> > > from that window.
> > Edwards & Fischer said "wide open window" & "5th floor".
> > Brennan, Couch & Jackson said wide open window, or indicated
> > (Jackson) wide open window. Can't be the 6th floor.
> There were no "wide open" windows in the TSBN that day, reason being
> those windows only opened halfway at most.
> No open windows at all on the 7th floor.
> There were 3 half opened windows on the 6th floor,
> 5 on the 5th floor, and 1 on the 4th floor.
> There were a couple of 1/4 open windows, one being the sniper's nest.
> > Euins' 11/29/63 FBI interview: Euins "never saw anything other than
> > what appeared to be his hand on the stock".
> > Euins' 12/14/63 FBI interview: "He stated he saw a man's hand on
> > what appeared to be the trigger housing & he could also see a bald
> > spot on the man's head. He said he was sure this man was white,
> > because his hand extended outside the window on the rifle."
> > As I said, the FBI were a bunch of doofusses who could never
> > seem to get Euins' statements right. On 12/14, for instance,
> > the suspect had a bald spot *and* he was white...!
> That solves the mystery of the "white spot" and confirms my previous
> suggestion that a black teenager may refer to a bald spot on a white man
> as a "white spot". This is confirmation Euins saw the sniper on the 6th
> floor and corroborates witness Brenner the assassin was a white man.
> Good work.
Thank you. I seem to have succeeded at proving the exact opposite of what I set out to prove! I'll let it go at that since I'm moving on to a post specifically on Sgt. Harkness....
dcw
> > > > Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too.
> > > Cite please.
> > WR testimony
> No such thing as a "wide-open window" in the TSBD. Maybe they meant a
> wide-open half window.
> > > > And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end".
> > > Cite please.
> > DPD radio log 12:37pm
> OK, so he got it wrong. What does this prove?
> > > > So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
> > > To some degree, but enough witnesses got it right to provide
> > > corroboration. Empty shells were found under the 6th floor window inside
> > > the sniper's nest
> > We have no way of knowing *where* they were found since Fritz (according to Mooney, Alyea & Faulkner) handled them before they could be photographed.
> I believe Fritz picked up one to look at it and there were other witnesses
> who observed the shells in situ before he did. What reason would Fritz
> have to rearrange the empty shells? It would be OK to do that with a
> pencil inside the hull and carefully place it back down with other
> witnesses watching, however today it is best to leave everything as is.
> > > > Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window.
> > > Multiple corroboration of a rifle in the 6th floor window and shots fired
> > > from that window.
> > Edwards & Fischer said "wide open window" & "5th floor".
> > Brennan, Couch & Jackson said wide open window, or indicated
> > (Jackson) wide open window. Can't be the 6th floor.
> There were no "wide open" windows in the TSBN that day, reason being
> those windows only opened halfway at most.
> No open windows at all on the 7th floor.
> There were 3 half opened windows on the 6th floor,
> 5 on the 5th floor, and 1 on the 4th floor.
> There were a couple of 1/4 open windows, one being the sniper's nest.
I see that some clarification is needed re depository windows. Casement windows such as those in the depository *look* half open when they are indeed as far open as they can go. Thus, "wide open" looks half open. There were 12 wide open windows that day on the top floors circa 12:30. Fortunately, two witnesses--Brennan & Jackson--indicated by other means how far open the shooter's window seemed to them. Brennan testified that the shooter's window was open "just like the windows on the fifth floor immediately below", in CE 481--in other words, wide open,or as far as it would open, at 12:30. (v3p153)
Jackson testified that the shooter's window was open as far as the "window on the 6th floor of the *westernmost* [asterisks added] portion of the building," in CE 348, (v2p159) which Jackson indeed said was open "halfway". But we can see that it is in fact a wide open casement window which looks open only halfway.... Jackson pointedly did not use the "sniper's nest" window (open halfway, or quarterway, if you must) to show how far the window was open. He had to leave the "sniper's nest" window to describe what he saw....
dcw
> > Euins' 11/29/63 FBI interview: Euins "never saw anything other than
> > what appeared to be his hand on the stock".
> > Euins' 12/14/63 FBI interview: "He stated he saw a man's hand on
> > what appeared to be the trigger housing & he could also see a bald
> > spot on the man's head. He said he was sure this man was white,
> > because his hand extended outside the window on the rifle."
> > As I said, the FBI were a bunch of doofusses who could never
> > seem to get Euins' statements right. On 12/14, for instance,
> > the suspect had a bald spot *and* he was white...!
> That solves the mystery of the "white spot" and confirms my previous
> suggestion that a black teenager may refer to a bald spot on a white man
> as a "white spot". This is confirmation Euins saw the sniper on the 6th
> floor and corroborates witness Brenner the assassin was a white man.
> Good work.
> > > > Edwards & Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too.
> > > Cite please.
> > WR testimony
> No such thing as a "wide-open window" in the TSBD. Maybe they meant a
> wide-open half window.
> > > > And a patrolman radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end".
> > > Cite please.
> > DPD radio log 12:37pm
> OK, so he got it wrong. What does this prove?
> > > > So floor #, window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
> > > To some degree, but enough witnesses got it right to provide
> > > corroboration. Empty shells were found under the 6th floor window inside
> > > the sniper's nest
> > We have no way of knowing *where* they were found since Fritz (according to Mooney, Alyea & Faulkner) handled them before they could be photographed.
> I believe Fritz picked up one to look at it and there were other witnesses
> who observed the shells in situ before he did. What reason would Fritz
> have to rearrange the empty shells? It would be OK to do that with a
> pencil inside the hull and carefully place it back down with other
> witnesses watching, however today it is best to leave everything as is.
seansmileyran...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:39:27 PM UTC-7, claviger wrote:
> > As we can see from reading both a sworn statement by Amos Euins on
> > 11/22/63 and later testimony to the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume II:
> > [The testimony in this volume was conducted between February 27 and March
> > 19, 1964], that Euins never said he saw a black man shoot at the
> > President. For some reason Euins is frequently misquoted by CTs that he
> > saw a black man firing a rifle from a TSBD window above.
> Even before Euins' 11/22 statement, two reporters reported that Euins said > he saw a "colored man" upstairs in the depository, with a rifle.
> Underwood testified to this before the WC; Kent Biffle wrote about this, > but was not called to testify. Wouldn't want corroboration!
Oh lordy, Kent Biffle, of all people? Wasn't he the one who made the outlandish claim that he saw Oswald in Truly's "roll call" of employees when everyone else says Oswald didn't show for that? Biffle seems to me to be one of the most unreliable of all the reporters covering the assassination that day. Most likely he heard Euins say that he saw a man with a rifle AND ALSO SAW a colored man on a different floor, and misunderstood, thinking Euins was talking about the same man. And as there were three "colored men" that we all know didn't fire any shots, all of whom were absurdly visible on the fifth floor, it is a perfectly sensible explanation that Euins didn't mean that the colored man and the shooter were the same person and that Biffle merely misunderstood.
As for Underwood, not so sure about that, but in this same WC testimony, while he did admittedly claim that Euins said the colored man was also the one with the rifle, Underwood himself said he himself "saw two colored men leaning out there with their heads turned toward the top of the building, trying, I suppose, to determine where the shots were coming from." In regard to Euins, he also said something about "leaning" out of the window:
"He [Euins] was telling the motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man lean out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle."
Yet we all know that the shooter, no matter who he was, no matter of what race, never "leaned" *out* of the window at any point; I have not seen even the most dedicated CT claim such a thing. True, then Underwood went on to give what he claimed was a verbatim quote of Euins:
'By that time, motorcycle officers were arriving, homicide officers were arriving and I went over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and he said "Yes, sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said, "It was a colored man." I said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He said, "Yes, sir" and I asked him his name and the only thing I could understand was what I thought his name was Eunice.'
I still wonder if Underwood didn't misunderstand Euins or that Euins misunderstood what Underwood was asking him, or both. Twice Underwood said (once before the part I quoted) that he couldn't understand Euins clearly when he said his name, thinking he had said "Eunice." And am I incorrect in my recollection that there was at least one occasion in which Euins specifically denied that he had ever told any police officer or reporter that the man with the rifle was colored?
In article <988ad056-3ca0-4808-a32e-813a7241c514@googlegroups.com>,
seansmileyran...@gmail.com wrote:
> A Mrs Walthers saw a white man with a rifle on a floor no higher than the > 5th. Brennan saw a man firing from a wide-open window. Euins changed his > description of the shooter from one statement to the next. Edwards & > Fischer saw a suspicious man at a wide-open window, too. And a patrolman > radioed re a shot from the "second window from the end". So floor #, > window, & the shooter's description varied from witness to witness....
Thus you are confirming, and admitting, whether you realize it or not, that whether or not Euins initially said the shooter was "colored" is a fairly trivial matter. Likewise it is trivial that some witnesses said the shooter was on one floor, some on another. Also trivial regarding how far open the window was. Witnesses are naturally going to be all over the place on matters such as this, and most especially on physical descriptions of the suspect, which are often the most notoriously unreliable of all witness recollections.
Of an astonishingly different nature was the firm convergence of more than 90% of 216 witnesses who thought all the shots came from a single location, even if they didn't came anywhere close to converging on which location it was. More than 90% of all the witnesses who thought shots came from the TSBD said *ALL* the shots sounded as if they came from there. More than 90% of all the witnesses who thought shots came from the grassy knoll said *ALL* the shots sounded as if they came from there. More than 90% of all the witnesses who thought shots came from the Triple Underpass said *ALL* the shots sounded as if they came from there. No matter which direction the witness thought the shots came from, the witness almost always thought ALL the shots came from that location, and that not one shot came from any other direction. This aspect is almost always omitted in any discussion by anyone who proposes multiple shooters. They'll merely say things like, "Many people thought shots came from the grassy knoll," with the obvious implication that these people supposedly thought only "some" of the shots came from there, when in reality more than nine of out ten of them thought *ALL* the shots came from there and not one shot, not one, came from any other location. This even includes people who recalled more or less than three shots.
In article <59f07b49-5441-46a0-8595-15e7bf927e92@googlegroups.com>,
seansmileyran...@gmail.com wrote:
> Euins' 11/29/63 FBI interview: Euins "never saw anything other than what > appeared to be his hand on the stock".
> Euins' 12/14/63 FBI interview: "He stated he saw a man's hand on what > appeared to be the trigger housing & he could also see a bald spot onthe > man's head. He said he was sure this man was white, because his hand > extended outside the window on the rifle."
> As I said, the FBI were a bunch of doofusses who could never seem to get > Euins' statements right. On 12/14, for instance, the suspect had a bald spot > *and* he was white...!
> dcw
Exactly. So I am at a loss to understand why in another article in this thread you used Kent Biffle, of all people, to corroborate Euins initially saying the shooter was "colored," when Biffle was even more likely to misunderstand Euins than the FBI, due to Biffle's astonishing gaffe about an imaginary Oswald that no one else saw in Truly's roll call. In short, why did you not unhesitatingly assume Biffle to be even more unreliable than the FBI?
