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claviger
Apr 28, 2013, 10:17:48 AM4/28/13
to
Ramon,
OK, to construct a Conspiracy Theory we need to establish a
possibility matrix including all suspects for any reason, beginning
with simple logic. Who were enemies of the Kennedy brothers during
their lifetime?
In 1960 they came into office in the middle of a Cold War about to
turn hot. So the USSR and Cuba should be at the top of the list. The
Kennedy's also went after the Teamster's Union and Marcello in New
Orleans. So Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello need to be high on the
list. The Kennedys had political enemies as well, Lyndon Johnson, J
Edgar Hoover, and later Allen Dulles. Add them to the list. Richard
Nixon was aware the election had been stolen by the Chicago machine.
So he goes on the list too.
There were also organizations that didn't like the Kennedy brothers.
At the top of that list would be The Federal Reserve. Rich oilmen in
Texas didn't care for the Kennedys, nor it is claimed did the
"military-industrial complex". The anti-Castro Cubans were angry
about lack of air support during the BOP invasion. So we need to add
them to the list.
Here is the Matrix of suspects who should be thoroughly investigated,
as I would rank them by means and motive.
Tier One:
1 Khrushchev - KGB - Marina Prusakova
2 Fidel Castro G2
3 Carlos Marcello - Jack Ruby
4 John Rosselli - James Files
5 The Federal Reserve
6 Anti Castro Cubans
Tier Two:
1 Allen Dulles
2 E Howard Hunt - Frank Sturgis
3 Lyndon Johnson - Cord Meyer
4 Ed Clark - Mac Wallace - George Parr
5 Clay Shaw - David Ferrie
6 Rich Texas Oilmen
Tier Three:
1 Joseph Milteer
2 Military-Industrial Complex
3 Rafael Trujillo Family
4 Mossad
5 The Vatican - Ngo Dinh Diem
6 Seneca Tribe
Tier Four:
1 The Masons
2 J Edgar Hoover
3 Richard Nixon
4 George H W Bush
All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
OK, to construct a Conspiracy Theory we need to establish a
possibility matrix including all suspects for any reason, beginning
with simple logic. Who were enemies of the Kennedy brothers during
their lifetime?
In 1960 they came into office in the middle of a Cold War about to
turn hot. So the USSR and Cuba should be at the top of the list. The
Kennedy's also went after the Teamster's Union and Marcello in New
Orleans. So Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello need to be high on the
list. The Kennedys had political enemies as well, Lyndon Johnson, J
Edgar Hoover, and later Allen Dulles. Add them to the list. Richard
Nixon was aware the election had been stolen by the Chicago machine.
So he goes on the list too.
There were also organizations that didn't like the Kennedy brothers.
At the top of that list would be The Federal Reserve. Rich oilmen in
Texas didn't care for the Kennedys, nor it is claimed did the
"military-industrial complex". The anti-Castro Cubans were angry
about lack of air support during the BOP invasion. So we need to add
them to the list.
Here is the Matrix of suspects who should be thoroughly investigated,
as I would rank them by means and motive.
Tier One:
1 Khrushchev - KGB - Marina Prusakova
2 Fidel Castro G2
3 Carlos Marcello - Jack Ruby
4 John Rosselli - James Files
5 The Federal Reserve
6 Anti Castro Cubans
Tier Two:
1 Allen Dulles
2 E Howard Hunt - Frank Sturgis
3 Lyndon Johnson - Cord Meyer
4 Ed Clark - Mac Wallace - George Parr
5 Clay Shaw - David Ferrie
6 Rich Texas Oilmen
Tier Three:
1 Joseph Milteer
2 Military-Industrial Complex
3 Rafael Trujillo Family
4 Mossad
5 The Vatican - Ngo Dinh Diem
6 Seneca Tribe
Tier Four:
1 The Masons
2 J Edgar Hoover
3 Richard Nixon
4 George H W Bush
All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
Anthony Marsh
Apr 28, 2013, 7:15:16 PM4/28/13
to
Birch Society, and Johnson's cronies.
mainframetech
Apr 28, 2013, 10:19:07 PM4/28/13
to
Kennedy wanted to get control of that operation, which was all over
the lot. And maybe since law enforcement is usually right wing, might
the DPD be included? And the Dallas sheriff's dept. that was told not
to get involved in the protection of the president?
Chris
Anthony Marsh
Apr 29, 2013, 3:41:39 PM4/29/13
to
About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
Research
Apr 29, 2013, 6:26:06 PM4/29/13
to
"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7b86d8a8-10f6-4346...@v20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> few days before Ken.
But we can add the Vatican "Ratline" operators and the Italian Red
Cross.
> 6 Seneca Tribe
>
> Tier Four:
> 1 The Masons
> 2 J Edgar Hoover
> 3 Richard Nixon
> 4 George H W Bush
5 Howard Hughes
>
> Tier Four:
> 1 The Masons
> 2 J Edgar Hoover
> 3 Richard Nixon
> 4 George H W Bush
>
>
> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
Tier Five: the rouge CIA
>
> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
1 Allen Dulles
2 General Cabell
3 Joesph Dealey
5 All the other top CIA admin that Kennedy fired after the BOP.
6 Frank Struges
7 E. Howad Hunt and all of Nixon's tin soldiers.
8 All the snot-head crouts smuggled out of Germany, still working for
"the company." At that time we
must add 1/2 the Pentigon.
>
Research
Apr 29, 2013, 6:27:12 PM4/29/13
to
"mainframetech" <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:99b04988-f973-429a...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 28, 10:17 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ramon,
>
> OK, to construct a Conspiracy Theory we need to establish a
> possibility matrix including all suspects for any reason, beginning
> with simple logic. Who were enemies of the Kennedy brothers during
> their lifetime?
>
> In 1960 they came into office in the middle of a Cold War about to
> turn hot. So the USSR and Cuba should be at the top of the list. The
> Kennedy's also went after the Teamster's Union and Marcello in New
> Orleans. So Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello need to be high on the
> list. The Kennedys had political enemies as well, Lyndon Johnson, J
> Edgar Hoover, and later Allen Dulles. Add them to the list. Richard
> Nixon was aware the election had been stolen by the Chicago machine.
> So he goes on the list too.
>
> There were also organizations that didn't like the Kennedy brothers.
> At the top of that list would be The Federal Reserve. Rich oilmen in
> Texas didn't care for the Kennedys, nor it is claimed did the
> "military-industrial complex". The anti-Castro Cubans were angry
> about lack of air support during the BOP invasion. So we need to add
> them to the list.
>
> Here is the Matrix of suspects who should be thoroughly investigated,
> as I would rank them by means and motive.
>
> Tier One:
> 1 Khrushchev - KGB - Marina Prusakova
> 2 Fidel Castro G2 Don't forget to all the trip to Mexico.
> Ramon,
>
> OK, to construct a Conspiracy Theory we need to establish a
> possibility matrix including all suspects for any reason, beginning
> with simple logic. Who were enemies of the Kennedy brothers during
> their lifetime?
>
> In 1960 they came into office in the middle of a Cold War about to
> turn hot. So the USSR and Cuba should be at the top of the list. The
> Kennedy's also went after the Teamster's Union and Marcello in New
> Orleans. So Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello need to be high on the
> list. The Kennedys had political enemies as well, Lyndon Johnson, J
> Edgar Hoover, and later Allen Dulles. Add them to the list. Richard
> Nixon was aware the election had been stolen by the Chicago machine.
> So he goes on the list too.
>
> There were also organizations that didn't like the Kennedy brothers.
> At the top of that list would be The Federal Reserve. Rich oilmen in
> Texas didn't care for the Kennedys, nor it is claimed did the
> "military-industrial complex". The anti-Castro Cubans were angry
> about lack of air support during the BOP invasion. So we need to add
> them to the list.
>
> Here is the Matrix of suspects who should be thoroughly investigated,
> as I would rank them by means and motive.
>
> Tier One:
> 1 Khrushchev - KGB - Marina Prusakova
parade. 11/22/63 it splashed all the Dallas papers that LBJ was about to be
dropped from the ticket. I think it was the Dallas Morning News, but I'll
have to look it up.
One silent hater must have been Silvia Odio, because Kennedy and the BOPs.
Good reason to try to pin down Oswald, HUH?
mainframetech
Apr 29, 2013, 6:28:41 PM4/29/13
to
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
And what of the DPD, and the others mentioned? And let's remember
that Milteer mentioned above was wanting to kill JFK and even stated
how it was going to be done in Dallas. Looks like the FBI gave him a
pass:
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
Chris
claviger
Apr 30, 2013, 9:23:06 PM4/30/13
to
> the John Birch Society,
Never heard them mentioned as part of the conspiracy. What connection
could they possibly have? Cite please.
> and Johnson's cronies.
See Tier Two, No 3 & No 4.
claviger
Apr 30, 2013, 9:23:15 PM4/30/13
to
investigating the CIA. A full investigation of the CIA would be in
order including possible rogue units and affiliates, such as OC
liaisons like John Rosselli, Tier One, No 4 and AntiCastro Cubans,
Tier One, No 6.
claviger
Apr 30, 2013, 9:23:46 PM4/30/13
to
Anthony,
> >> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
> > And do you feel that the CIA shouldn't be on the list? After all,
>
> He intentionally left out the CIA to protect his buddies.
Yes of course. To the myopic paranoid kind of CT that is the obvious
answer.
> About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
So does that mean we're having a national election on this issue?
Will this popular election solve the case? Can there be televised
debates too? When is Election Day? Will President Obama be invited?
He has the keys that can unlock the nontransparent door where the
secrets are kept.
> >> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
> > And do you feel that the CIA shouldn't be on the list? After all,
>
> He intentionally left out the CIA to protect his buddies.
answer.
> About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
Will this popular election solve the case? Can there be televised
debates too? When is Election Day? Will President Obama be invited?
He has the keys that can unlock the nontransparent door where the
secrets are kept.
claviger
Apr 30, 2013, 9:24:00 PM4/30/13
to
to LHO, Marina, or the Paines. Did Milteer know anyone working in the
TSBD?
claviger
Apr 30, 2013, 10:30:24 PM4/30/13
to
Research,
Please explain.
> 6 Seneca Tribe
>
> > Tier Four:
> > 1 The Masons
> > 2 J Edgar Hoover
> > 3 Richard Nixon
> > 4 George H W Bush
>
> 5 Howard Hughes
Why Howard Hughes?
> > All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
> Tier Five: the rouge CIA
Yes.
> 1 Allen Dulles
> 2 General Cabell
OK, he was CIA.
> 3 Joesph Dealey
He was a harsh critic of Kennedy's foreign policy toward Cuba and he
lived in Dallas, so OK.
> 5 All the other top CIA admin that Kennedy fired after the BOP.
Of course, that's obvious.
> 6 Frank Struges
Definitely Sturgis, especially after E Howard Hunt's "confession". As
a matter of fact Frank Sturgis was investigated by both the WC and
HSCA. One of his girlfriends said he was involved in a plot to kill
the President, but maybe not the same plot LHO was involved with or
Marina.
> 7 E. Howad Hunt and all of Nixon's tin soldiers.
I think they were.
> 8 All the snot-head crouts smuggled out of Germany, still working for
> "the company."
Do you mean krauts? OK, but didn't most of them like JFK for saving
them from the Russians and giving them jobs in the Space Industry?
JFK's father thought the Brits should stay out of any war with the
National Socialist Party of Germany, as did many other Americans. FDR
campaigned on the platform of no foreign war during his Presidency.
> At that time we must add 1/2 the Pentigon.
Well, OK I guess you mean the US Army 112th Intelligence Group
stationed at Fort Sam Houston, or did you literally mean half the
Pentagon in Washington DC?
> 6 Seneca Tribe
>
> > Tier Four:
> > 1 The Masons
> > 2 J Edgar Hoover
> > 3 Richard Nixon
> > 4 George H W Bush
>
> 5 Howard Hughes
> > All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
> Tier Five: the rouge CIA
> 1 Allen Dulles
> 2 General Cabell
> 3 Joesph Dealey
He was a harsh critic of Kennedy's foreign policy toward Cuba and he
lived in Dallas, so OK.
> 5 All the other top CIA admin that Kennedy fired after the BOP.
> 6 Frank Struges
Definitely Sturgis, especially after E Howard Hunt's "confession". As
a matter of fact Frank Sturgis was investigated by both the WC and
HSCA. One of his girlfriends said he was involved in a plot to kill
the President, but maybe not the same plot LHO was involved with or
Marina.
> 7 E. Howad Hunt and all of Nixon's tin soldiers.
> 8 All the snot-head crouts smuggled out of Germany, still working for
> "the company."
them from the Russians and giving them jobs in the Space Industry?
JFK's father thought the Brits should stay out of any war with the
National Socialist Party of Germany, as did many other Americans. FDR
campaigned on the platform of no foreign war during his Presidency.
> At that time we must add 1/2 the Pentigon.
stationed at Fort Sam Houston, or did you literally mean half the
Pentagon in Washington DC?
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 12:20:18 AM5/1/13
to
You have never seen televised debates about the JFK assassination? Ever
watch TV?
Obama is not allowed to release the secrets. Hell, he can't even shut
down Gitmo.
mainframetech
May 1, 2013, 8:24:09 AM5/1/13
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
You make the automatic assumption that Milteer had to have
> - Show quoted text -
connections to your favorite guilty assassin. Some of us don't think
he did any shooting, and Milteer had foreknowledge, suggesting he knew
the conspirators, or some of them, or was even one of them, perhaps
supplying money and resources.
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
Chris
Anthony Marsh
May 1, 2013, 8:25:52 AM5/1/13
to
On 4/30/2013 9:23 PM, claviger wrote:
as the Southern racists.
>> the John Birch Society,
>
> Never heard them mentioned as part of the conspiracy. What connection
> could they possibly have? Cite please.
>
claviger
May 1, 2013, 8:27:31 AM5/1/13
to
On Apr 30, 11:20 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/30/2013 9:23 PM, claviger wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anthony,
>
> >>>> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
> >>> And do you feel that the CIA shouldn't be on the list? After all,
>
> >> He intentionally left out the CIA to protect his buddies.
>
> > Yes of course. To the myopic paranoid kind of CT that is the obvious
> > answer.
>
> >> About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
>
> > So does that mean we're having a national election on this issue?
> > Will this popular election solve the case? Can there be televised
> > debates too? When is Election Day? Will President Obama be invited?
> > He has the keys that can unlock the nontransparent door where the
> > secrets are kept.
>
> We already had the vote. You guys lost.
Who is "we"? When did the vote take place? Who are "you guys"? Who
> On 4/30/2013 9:23 PM, claviger wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anthony,
>
> >>>> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>
> >>> And do you feel that the CIA shouldn't be on the list? After all,
>
> >> He intentionally left out the CIA to protect his buddies.
>
> > Yes of course. To the myopic paranoid kind of CT that is the obvious
> > answer.
>
> >> About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
>
> > So does that mean we're having a national election on this issue?
> > Will this popular election solve the case? Can there be televised
> > debates too? When is Election Day? Will President Obama be invited?
> > He has the keys that can unlock the nontransparent door where the
> > secrets are kept.
>
> We already had the vote. You guys lost.
were the bad guys?
> You have never seen televised debates about the JFK assassination? Ever
> watch TV?
> Obama is not allowed to release the secrets. Hell, he can't even shut
> down Gitmo.
claviger
May 1, 2013, 6:14:43 PM5/1/13
to
Cubans. One of them was told a Mafia hit on the President was coming.
So it was OC who murdered President Kennedy. LHO had New Orleans
connections with David Ferrie who purportedly was a pilot for Marcello.
Blakey and Cornwell were convinced it was a mob hit.
claviger
May 1, 2013, 6:15:15 PM5/1/13
to
Minutemen had anything to do with this crime? No, of course not. They
would be easy targets for any government investigation if that were the
case. Gonzales shows what a goofball he was by mentioning their name in
the first place. A Marxist wannabe did this crime, for his hero Fidel,
rhymes with Hidell, no matter how hard you try to pin it on a group you
don't approve of.
Research
May 1, 2013, 11:04:49 PM5/1/13
to
news:45272a5f-b8d0-4ec6...@w8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Secret plan to evacuate war Italian and German criminals out of Europe.
> 6 Seneca Tribe
>
> > Tier Four:
> > 1 The Masons
> > 2 J Edgar Hoover
> > 3 Richard Nixon
> > 4 George H W Bush
>
> 5 Howard Hughes
Why Howard Hughes?
Hughes pure hated Kennedy. Cause he was a germ-aphobe. And Hughes
"ordered" Kennedy to stop testing warheads just outside Vegas where Hughes
lived at the time. Kennedy refused to move the testing site, although he
ordered the test slowed. Then afterward he got the Russians to sign a test
ban treaties. That wasn't good enough for Hughes. And he hated the
Kennedys so bad. I think cause Hughes couldn't bulley them like he did
everybody else. Hughes was closely connect to the Vaga Mafia too.
>l names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
> Tier Five: the rouge CIA
Yes.
Seems like your teirs are all over the place. You grouped wrong. Johnson
should be with the oil men. Why the Masons? Bush should be grouped with
CIA. Military-Industrial Complex should be with CIA. The Rafael Trujillo
Family should be with the Mafia, although its the wrong group. You left
out the Marcello group connect to Oswald and Kennedy? Oh yeah teir one?
Why the Federal Reserve? They should be with the complex issue.
> 1 Allen Dulles
> 2 General Cabell
OK, he was CIA.
Not only that, his brother was mayor of Dallas and rode in the lead car.
Maybe cause of political reasons. I'm sure it wasn't. The Cabells were a
powerhouse in Dallas and General Cabell was disgraced when he was fired.
> 3 Joesph Dealey
He was a harsh critic of Kennedy's foreign policy toward Cuba and he lived
in Dallas, so OK.
Well yes. Dealey was one of the CIA employees Kennedy fired. Note Dealey
Plaza. The Dealey family donated that little plot to the city of Dallas.
It was his own grounds so to speak. The Dealeys, Cabells. and Dulles
should be the rouge element you are searching for.
> 5 All the other top CIA admin that Kennedy fired after the BOP.
Of course, that's obvious.
> 6 Frank Struges
Definitely Sturgis, especially after E Howard Hunt's "confession". As a
matter of fact Frank Sturgis was investigated by both the WC and HSCA.
One of his girlfriends said he was involved in a plot to kill the
President, but maybe not the same plot LHO was involved with or Marina.
You call that travisity an investigation? Lincoln said it right. "You can
fool most of the people most of the time." He should know. He got the
American public fooled.
> 7 E. Howad Hunt and all of Nixon's tin soldiers.
I think they were.
All these so called "investigations" were nothing more than mop-ups. Look
at all the countries Dulles and his cohorts toppled. Then it might be a
little clearer for you. They left trails. Look how they had people left
behind to misinform and disinform. They always left behind a mop-up crew.
The WC was only the first. And look how we have at the very top of the
pyramid. Even the CIA said they didn't releace all their evidence to the
WC, who didn't want it any way.
> 8 All the snot-head crouts smuggled out of Germany, still working for
> "the company."
Do you mean krauts? OK, but didn't most of them like JFK for saving
them from the Russians and giving them jobs in the Space Industry?
Oh how naive. Yeah they only released that information because the
Russians were after them too. But it wasn't just the rocket scientists.
The CIA and the FBI was rebuilt with Nazi war criminals.
JFK's father thought the Brits should stay out of any war with the
National Socialist Party of Germany, as did many other Americans. FDR
campaigned on the platform of no foreign war during his Presidency.
> At that time we must add 1/2 the Pentigon.
Well, OK I guess you mean the US Army 112th Intelligence Group
stationed at Fort Sam Houston, or did you literally mean half the
Pentagon in Washington DC?
The Pentagon was filled with stolen art brought back from Germany. One
other person who didn't make your little list was VP Agnew. He was Nazi
too. He was in charge of smuggling a gold stach out of Berlin to the
south. The counterfeit cash was found along with the gold. It was buried
in the Ober Salzburg mountains. What happen to that massive solen jewel
cash that Agnew was in charge of. He was only a Captain, and hadn't been
paid in months. His family was broke-down poor. And in a few years he was
Nixon's VP?
> 6 Seneca Tribe
>
> > Tier Four:
> > 1 The Masons
> > 2 J Edgar Hoover
> > 3 Richard Nixon
> > 4 George H W Bush
>
> 5 Howard Hughes
Why Howard Hughes?
"ordered" Kennedy to stop testing warheads just outside Vegas where Hughes
lived at the time. Kennedy refused to move the testing site, although he
ordered the test slowed. Then afterward he got the Russians to sign a test
ban treaties. That wasn't good enough for Hughes. And he hated the
Kennedys so bad. I think cause Hughes couldn't bulley them like he did
everybody else. Hughes was closely connect to the Vaga Mafia too.
>l names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
> Tier Five: the rouge CIA
Yes.
should be with the oil men. Why the Masons? Bush should be grouped with
CIA. Military-Industrial Complex should be with CIA. The Rafael Trujillo
Family should be with the Mafia, although its the wrong group. You left
out the Marcello group connect to Oswald and Kennedy? Oh yeah teir one?
Why the Federal Reserve? They should be with the complex issue.
> 1 Allen Dulles
> 2 General Cabell
OK, he was CIA.
Maybe cause of political reasons. I'm sure it wasn't. The Cabells were a
powerhouse in Dallas and General Cabell was disgraced when he was fired.
> 3 Joesph Dealey
He was a harsh critic of Kennedy's foreign policy toward Cuba and he lived
in Dallas, so OK.
Plaza. The Dealey family donated that little plot to the city of Dallas.
It was his own grounds so to speak. The Dealeys, Cabells. and Dulles
should be the rouge element you are searching for.
> 5 All the other top CIA admin that Kennedy fired after the BOP.
Of course, that's obvious.
> 6 Frank Struges
Definitely Sturgis, especially after E Howard Hunt's "confession". As a
matter of fact Frank Sturgis was investigated by both the WC and HSCA.
One of his girlfriends said he was involved in a plot to kill the
President, but maybe not the same plot LHO was involved with or Marina.
fool most of the people most of the time." He should know. He got the
American public fooled.
> 7 E. Howad Hunt and all of Nixon's tin soldiers.
I think they were.
at all the countries Dulles and his cohorts toppled. Then it might be a
little clearer for you. They left trails. Look how they had people left
behind to misinform and disinform. They always left behind a mop-up crew.
The WC was only the first. And look how we have at the very top of the
pyramid. Even the CIA said they didn't releace all their evidence to the
WC, who didn't want it any way.
> 8 All the snot-head crouts smuggled out of Germany, still working for
> "the company."
Do you mean krauts? OK, but didn't most of them like JFK for saving
them from the Russians and giving them jobs in the Space Industry?
Russians were after them too. But it wasn't just the rocket scientists.
The CIA and the FBI was rebuilt with Nazi war criminals.
JFK's father thought the Brits should stay out of any war with the
National Socialist Party of Germany, as did many other Americans. FDR
campaigned on the platform of no foreign war during his Presidency.
> At that time we must add 1/2 the Pentigon.
Well, OK I guess you mean the US Army 112th Intelligence Group
stationed at Fort Sam Houston, or did you literally mean half the
Pentagon in Washington DC?
other person who didn't make your little list was VP Agnew. He was Nazi
too. He was in charge of smuggling a gold stach out of Berlin to the
south. The counterfeit cash was found along with the gold. It was buried
in the Ober Salzburg mountains. What happen to that massive solen jewel
cash that Agnew was in charge of. He was only a Captain, and hadn't been
paid in months. His family was broke-down poor. And in a few years he was
Nixon's VP?
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:02:48 AM5/2/13
to
On 5/1/2013 8:27 AM, claviger wrote:
> On Apr 30, 11:20 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 4/30/2013 9:23 PM, claviger wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anthony,
>>
>>>>>> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>>
>>>>> And do you feel that the CIA shouldn't be on the list? After all,
>>
>>>> He intentionally left out the CIA to protect his buddies.
>>
>>> Yes of course. To the myopic paranoid kind of CT that is the obvious
>>> answer.
>>
>>>> About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
>>
>>> So does that mean we're having a national election on this issue?
>>> Will this popular election solve the case? Can there be televised
>>> debates too? When is Election Day? Will President Obama be invited?
>>> He has the keys that can unlock the nontransparent door where the
>>> secrets are kept.
>>
>> We already had the vote. You guys lost.
> Who is "we"? When did the vote take place? Who are "you guys"? Who
> were the bad guys?
>
We, our side, the good guys, the conspiracy researchers.
> On Apr 30, 11:20 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 4/30/2013 9:23 PM, claviger wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anthony,
>>
>>>>>> All names on this matrix are based on previous information in print.
>>
>>>>> And do you feel that the CIA shouldn't be on the list? After all,
>>
>>>> He intentionally left out the CIA to protect his buddies.
>>
>>> Yes of course. To the myopic paranoid kind of CT that is the obvious
>>> answer.
>>
>>>> About half the public thinks the CIA did it.
>>
>>> So does that mean we're having a national election on this issue?
>>> Will this popular election solve the case? Can there be televised
>>> debates too? When is Election Day? Will President Obama be invited?
>>> He has the keys that can unlock the nontransparent door where the
>>> secrets are kept.
>>
>> We already had the vote. You guys lost.
> Who is "we"? When did the vote take place? Who are "you guys"? Who
> were the bad guys?
>
Your side, the WC defenders, the cover-up are the bad guys.
1977.
>> You have never seen televised debates about the JFK assassination? Ever
>> watch TV?
> Yes, when were the debates? What channel?
>
>> Obama is not allowed to release the secrets. Hell, he can't even shut
>> down Gitmo.
> Not allowed by whom?
>
>
>
>
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:07:17 AM5/2/13
to
mean the person was part of a plot. That's what psychics do for a
living. I don't know anyone who thinks that Milteer fired any shots in
Dealey Plaza. There is a kook who claims he was in the crowd watching.
Just for fun you could claim that Milteer hired the shooter on the
grassy knoll, totally unconnected to Oswald.
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:20:48 AM5/2/13
to
> would be easy targets for any government investigation if that were the
> case. Gonzales shows what a goofball he was by mentioning their name in
> the first place. A Marxist wannabe did this crime, for his hero Fidel,
> rhymes with Hidell, no matter how hard you try to pin it on a group you
> don't approve of.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 2, 2013, 12:21:06 AM5/2/13
to
automatically pin any conspiracy on leftists.
Blakey was brought un to take the heat off the CIA by blaming it on the
Mafia, not realizing that the Mafia and the CIA were the same thing.
claviger
May 2, 2013, 12:37:15 PM5/2/13
to
On May 1, 10:04 pm, "Research" <questio...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "claviger" <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Research,
Wow! This is the first time I've felt overwhelmed by a post from a
CT. If all this is true, poor Jack and Bobby. They had no idea what
they were getting into. I believe they were two aristocratic scions
who wanted the USA to be what it was meant to be. I also believe they
had no idea their father cut a deal with the Mafia in Chicago. Very
sad. I still believe LHO could have done this on his own for whatever
reasons were in his confused, unhappy, manic brain. Life is full of
irony and LHO did what the Mafia was planning to do, but did it
first. A local Mafia connection in Dallas said that is exactly what
happened, much to the surprise of the Marcello organization.
I would like to see you construct your own matrix. The website below
explains how it works. The concept is very simple. A matrix is a
combination of horizontal layers and vertical columns. Together they
make building blocks of probabilities, individual and/or
combinations. The upper left block of the complete chart is the
heaviest, in the sense it is most likely to be true. So the
statistical probability is descending to the right and downward. The
upper left corner is your strongest probability. The bottom right
corner is the least likely solution. A matrix can also be 3-
dimensional but not necessary in this situation. You are the designer
of this matrix. It represents your brain and instincts, expressing
your gut feel about this case.
However, the upper left corner box might be wrong, so you move to the
right and/or down to the next most probable option. Again, this is
your matrix, so only you can weigh each box as to it's statistical
probability. This is simply a flow chart, so to speak, of your hunch
and instincts about who was behind this assassination, whether a
mittyish ex-Marine, the mob, MiI-Ind Complex, or whoever. I'm pretty
sure it wasn't the Minutemen, John Birch Society, or Ku Klux Klan. I
do believe the Federal Reserve could have been a player in some way.
They are the most exclusive and powerful group of Americans on Planet
Earth. I sincerely hope not, but they had billions to lose if the
Kennedys became independent of their influence. More than just money,
but powerful political control as well. Far from being open-market
free-enterprise enthusiasts, they would be more inclined toward top-
down socialism, as the super wealthy tend to be around the world.
Matrix (mathematics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(mathematics)
mittyish at Dictionary.com
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/walter+mittyish - 67k - similar
pages an ordinary, timid person who is given to adventurous and self-
aggrandizing daydreams or secret plans as a way of glamorizing a
humdrum life.
> "claviger" <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Wow! This is the first time I've felt overwhelmed by a post from a
CT. If all this is true, poor Jack and Bobby. They had no idea what
they were getting into. I believe they were two aristocratic scions
who wanted the USA to be what it was meant to be. I also believe they
had no idea their father cut a deal with the Mafia in Chicago. Very
sad. I still believe LHO could have done this on his own for whatever
reasons were in his confused, unhappy, manic brain. Life is full of
irony and LHO did what the Mafia was planning to do, but did it
first. A local Mafia connection in Dallas said that is exactly what
happened, much to the surprise of the Marcello organization.
I would like to see you construct your own matrix. The website below
explains how it works. The concept is very simple. A matrix is a
combination of horizontal layers and vertical columns. Together they
make building blocks of probabilities, individual and/or
combinations. The upper left block of the complete chart is the
heaviest, in the sense it is most likely to be true. So the
statistical probability is descending to the right and downward. The
upper left corner is your strongest probability. The bottom right
corner is the least likely solution. A matrix can also be 3-
dimensional but not necessary in this situation. You are the designer
of this matrix. It represents your brain and instincts, expressing
your gut feel about this case.
However, the upper left corner box might be wrong, so you move to the
right and/or down to the next most probable option. Again, this is
your matrix, so only you can weigh each box as to it's statistical
probability. This is simply a flow chart, so to speak, of your hunch
and instincts about who was behind this assassination, whether a
mittyish ex-Marine, the mob, MiI-Ind Complex, or whoever. I'm pretty
sure it wasn't the Minutemen, John Birch Society, or Ku Klux Klan. I
do believe the Federal Reserve could have been a player in some way.
They are the most exclusive and powerful group of Americans on Planet
Earth. I sincerely hope not, but they had billions to lose if the
Kennedys became independent of their influence. More than just money,
but powerful political control as well. Far from being open-market
free-enterprise enthusiasts, they would be more inclined toward top-
down socialism, as the super wealthy tend to be around the world.
Matrix (mathematics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(mathematics)
mittyish at Dictionary.com
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/walter+mittyish - 67k - similar
pages an ordinary, timid person who is given to adventurous and self-
aggrandizing daydreams or secret plans as a way of glamorizing a
humdrum life.
mainframetech
May 2, 2013, 10:48:50 PM5/2/13
to
and wasn't about to do the dirty work of killing JFK. He would be
supportive to those who did do the job, or help pay them, but not do
anything himself.
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
Chris
Anthony Marsh
May 3, 2013, 3:42:18 PM5/3/13
to
Milteer on the sidewalk.
mainframetech
May 3, 2013, 8:49:12 PM5/3/13
to
sidewalk. Can you?
Chris
Anthony Marsh
May 4, 2013, 5:28:59 PM5/4/13
to
claviger
May 7, 2013, 4:57:18 PM5/7/13
to
> pages an ordinary, timid person who is given to adventurous and self-
> aggrandizing daydreams or secret plans as a way of glamorizing a
> humdrum life.
Research,
> aggrandizing daydreams or secret plans as a way of glamorizing a
> humdrum life.
Have you completed your matrix yet? I'm interested in how you ranked
your own list of suspects.
mainframetech
May 7, 2013, 6:56:23 PM5/7/13
to
Chris
Anthony Marsh
May 7, 2013, 11:26:21 PM5/7/13
to
> Chris
>
mainframetech
May 8, 2013, 9:27:55 AM5/8/13
to
some wrong ideas? :)
>
>
Chris
claviger
May 9, 2013, 12:22:12 AM5/9/13
to
Research,
Where's your matrix? You have several suspects I've not heard about,
so your matrix will be larger than mine. Are you working on it?
claviger
May 9, 2013, 12:22:51 AM5/9/13
to
Chris,
> > I can think of one kook who would try that if he even knew about Milteer.
>
> Null sentence. No information supplied.
matrix based on your suspects.
mainframetech
May 9, 2013, 5:28:16 PM5/9/13
to
are nameless. Who do I name behind the picket fence? Who do I name
in the Dal-Tex building 2nd floor? Who do I mention on the County
Records building roof? Who was the real person in the TSBD that fired
a rifle of some kind? Who in the FBI intimidated witnesses to tell
only the story they wanted? Who in the SS did what had to be done
from their point of view? Kellerman certainly, but others? Hard to
say. Who in the FBI messed with critical evidence? Robert Frazier
most likely, he was involved in too many elements not to be. Who
dropped the fake CE399 bullet in Parkland on the wrong stretcher?
Who at the top of the hierarchy gave the orders? Hoover was one
possibility, LBJ, of course, very likely. There was involvement from
Milteer, though not actual doing of dirty work. The actual number of
people is smaller than it sounds like, for instance, Jack Ruby could
have also been the guy who dropped off a bullet in Parkland. He was
seen there by a reporter that knew him and spoke to him, but he
refused to admit it. One guy, 2 jobs, possibly more. A detective saw
him on the other side of the triple underpass putting a rifle into a
car. The detective knew Ruby and reported what he had seen, but was
ignored.
Chris
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
May 9, 2013, 5:31:46 PM5/9/13
to
Oswald".
As I recall the indictment against Shaw, it charged him with
conspiring with the other two men to assassinate JFK. Why did you
leave Oswald off the list?
Moreover, Shaw was tried and found not guilty by a jury of 12. Does
that count for anything? Many conspiracy theorists argue that Oswald
was never convicted of a crime, so he must be considered innocent. I
would think if that argument has any validity the same presumption of
innocence should also apply to those actually found not guilty in a
court case, wouldn't you?
Hank
Jason Burke
May 9, 2013, 8:58:33 PM5/9/13
to
On 5/9/2013 2:28 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> On May 9, 12:22 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>>>> I can think of one kook who would try that if he even knew about Milteer.
>>
>>> Null sentence. No information supplied.
>>
>> You're a computer guy so you know what a matrix is. I'd like to see a
>> matrix based on your suspects.
>
> I'm not able to produce such a document, since most of the players
> are nameless. Who do I name behind the picket fence? Who do I name
> in the Dal-Tex building 2nd floor? Who do I mention on the County
> Records building roof? Who was the real person in the TSBD that fired
> a rifle of some kind? Who in the FBI intimidated witnesses to tell
> only the story they wanted? Who in the SS did what had to be done
> from their point of view? Kellerman certainly, but others? Hard to
> say. Who in the FBI messed with critical evidence? Robert Frazier
> most likely, he was involved in too many elements not to be. Who
> dropped the fake CE399 bullet in Parkland on the wrong stretcher?
How about starting with:
> On May 9, 12:22 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>>>> I can think of one kook who would try that if he even knew about Milteer.
>>
>>> Null sentence. No information supplied.
>>
>> You're a computer guy so you know what a matrix is. I'd like to see a
>> matrix based on your suspects.
>
> I'm not able to produce such a document, since most of the players
> are nameless. Who do I name behind the picket fence? Who do I name
> in the Dal-Tex building 2nd floor? Who do I mention on the County
> Records building roof? Who was the real person in the TSBD that fired
> a rifle of some kind? Who in the FBI intimidated witnesses to tell
> only the story they wanted? Who in the SS did what had to be done
> from their point of view? Kellerman certainly, but others? Hard to
> say. Who in the FBI messed with critical evidence? Robert Frazier
> most likely, he was involved in too many elements not to be. Who
> dropped the fake CE399 bullet in Parkland on the wrong stretcher?
John DoeFantasy 1
John DoeFantasy 2
and go from there.
mainframetech
May 10, 2013, 9:46:19 AM5/10/13
to
On May 9, 8:58 pm, Jason Burke <Burke_Ja...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/9/2013 2:28 PM, mainframetech wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 12:22 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Chris,
>
> >>>> I can think of one kook who would try that if he even knew about Milteer.
>
> >>> Null sentence. No information supplied.
>
> >> You're a computer guy so you know what a matrix is. I'd like to see a
> >> matrix based on your suspects.
>
> > I'm not able to produce such a document, since most of the players
> > are nameless. Who do I name behind the picket fence? Who do I name
> > in the Dal-Tex building 2nd floor? Who do I mention on the County
> > Records building roof? Who was the real person in the TSBD that fired
> > a rifle of some kind? Who in the FBI intimidated witnesses to tell
> > only the story they wanted? Who in the SS did what had to be done
> > from their point of view? Kellerman certainly, but others? Hard to
> > say. Who in the FBI messed with critical evidence? Robert Frazier
> > most likely, he was involved in too many elements not to be. Who
> > dropped the fake CE399 bullet in Parkland on the wrong stretcher?
>
> How about starting with:
> John DoeFantasy 1
> John DoeFantasy 2
> and go from there.
>
You're doing fine...keep going...:) The evidence is clear that
> On 5/9/2013 2:28 PM, mainframetech wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 12:22 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Chris,
>
> >>>> I can think of one kook who would try that if he even knew about Milteer.
>
> >>> Null sentence. No information supplied.
>
> >> You're a computer guy so you know what a matrix is. I'd like to see a
> >> matrix based on your suspects.
>
> > I'm not able to produce such a document, since most of the players
> > are nameless. Who do I name behind the picket fence? Who do I name
> > in the Dal-Tex building 2nd floor? Who do I mention on the County
> > Records building roof? Who was the real person in the TSBD that fired
> > a rifle of some kind? Who in the FBI intimidated witnesses to tell
> > only the story they wanted? Who in the SS did what had to be done
> > from their point of view? Kellerman certainly, but others? Hard to
> > say. Who in the FBI messed with critical evidence? Robert Frazier
> > most likely, he was involved in too many elements not to be. Who
> > dropped the fake CE399 bullet in Parkland on the wrong stretcher?
>
> How about starting with:
> John DoeFantasy 1
> John DoeFantasy 2
> and go from there.
>
there was a conspiracy...not theories, but evidence. As well Occam's
Razor and common sense and logic can also be used to be sure there was
a conspiracy too. Once that is accepted, we can move on to who and
where they were.
claviger
May 11, 2013, 8:29:30 AM5/11/13
to
On May 9, 4:31 pm, "Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)"
Yes.
> As I recall the indictment against Shaw, it charged him with
> conspiring with the other two men to assassinate JFK. Why did you
> leave Oswald off the list?
I assumed everyone would make that connection based on the CAP photo,
but I should have made that clear. Same goes for Tier 1, 1 KGB -
Oswald
> Moreover, Shaw was tried and found not guilty by a jury of 12. Does
> that count for anything?
Yes, however the criminal court system is imperfect and criminals are
set free by juries, as in the OJ Trial. Law and history are different
venues. Lizzie Borden was not convicted either but many historians
are convinced she was guilty.
> Many conspiracy theorists argue that Oswald was never convicted of a
> crime, so he must be considered innocent. I would think if that argument
> has any validity the same presumption of innocence should also apply to
> those actually found not guilty in a court case, wouldn't you?
No. That stems from the "presumption of innocence" status of the
accused as a starting point in the criminal judicial process, that I
do agree with. However that is English common law. In Napoleonic Law
it is reversed. Not sure if that applies to criminal law in Louisiana
of not.
Given the obsession with technicalities in our legal system and the
fact juries return split decisions, there is no guarantee the guilty
will be convicted and punished. Also the attitude "I would rather let
10 guilty go free than convict 1 innocent person." DNA has been used
to release convicted felons from prison, but I'm not sure how certain
that technology is either. So the court system is less than perfect
in determining guilt and innocence. In any event, there is also the
"court of public opinion" and historians are free to disagree with
court decisions anyway.
There will always be questions about the Clay Shaw trial and one
witness still swears he was guilty. Of what we can't be sure. The
death of Ferrie was said to be a major blow to the prosecution of the
case. There is an undeniable New Orleans connection to LHO - Ferrie -
Shaw - Marcello - Ruby, and possibly Bannister. It may be coincidence
or something more sinister. LHO crossed paths with Bringuier and
Hemmings in the New Orleans area too. All this is very curious but
doesn't prove conspiracy. All these influences could have convinced
LHO to do something on his own to prove to all concerned he was a man
to be reckoned with too, as he went out in a blazing rage against the
system.
> As I recall the indictment against Shaw, it charged him with
> conspiring with the other two men to assassinate JFK. Why did you
> leave Oswald off the list?
but I should have made that clear. Same goes for Tier 1, 1 KGB -
Oswald
> Moreover, Shaw was tried and found not guilty by a jury of 12. Does
> that count for anything?
set free by juries, as in the OJ Trial. Law and history are different
venues. Lizzie Borden was not convicted either but many historians
are convinced she was guilty.
> Many conspiracy theorists argue that Oswald was never convicted of a
> crime, so he must be considered innocent. I would think if that argument
> has any validity the same presumption of innocence should also apply to
> those actually found not guilty in a court case, wouldn't you?
accused as a starting point in the criminal judicial process, that I
do agree with. However that is English common law. In Napoleonic Law
it is reversed. Not sure if that applies to criminal law in Louisiana
of not.
Given the obsession with technicalities in our legal system and the
fact juries return split decisions, there is no guarantee the guilty
will be convicted and punished. Also the attitude "I would rather let
10 guilty go free than convict 1 innocent person." DNA has been used
to release convicted felons from prison, but I'm not sure how certain
that technology is either. So the court system is less than perfect
in determining guilt and innocence. In any event, there is also the
"court of public opinion" and historians are free to disagree with
court decisions anyway.
There will always be questions about the Clay Shaw trial and one
witness still swears he was guilty. Of what we can't be sure. The
death of Ferrie was said to be a major blow to the prosecution of the
case. There is an undeniable New Orleans connection to LHO - Ferrie -
Shaw - Marcello - Ruby, and possibly Bannister. It may be coincidence
or something more sinister. LHO crossed paths with Bringuier and
Hemmings in the New Orleans area too. All this is very curious but
doesn't prove conspiracy. All these influences could have convinced
LHO to do something on his own to prove to all concerned he was a man
to be reckoned with too, as he went out in a blazing rage against the
system.
claviger
May 11, 2013, 8:30:12 AM5/11/13
to
> As well Occam's Razor and common sense and logic can also
> be used to be sure there was a conspiracy too.
did this crime by himself. Can you give us an example of commonsense
and logic that leads to conspiracy?
> Once that is accepted, we can move on to who and where they
> were.
the opposite direction you want it to go. Commonsense and Logic are
based on available evidence, all of which points to the owner of the
rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.
mainframetech
May 11, 2013, 10:26:41 AM5/11/13
to
now? Start with the proof generated by over 40 people seeing a large hole
('size of an orange') in the BOH of JFK implying a frontal hit. The
evidence of the debris from the head strike hitting Bobbly Hargis who was
on his cycle behind and to the left of the limo when the head strike
occurred. The phony bullet planted at Parkland, fortunately on the wrong
stretcher, and of the wrong type, where it was pointy nosed and not round
nosed like the MC ammo. The constant efforts of the FBI to lie on reports
as to what people said, to intimidate witnesses to say what they wanted,
or to shut up altogether. The sheer number of bullet strikes on people
and on pavement and grass. The fact that Oswald wasn't anywhere near the
6th floor when the shooting started. On and on, an endless stream of
facts, nest to the tired old theories of the WC.
> > As well Occam's Razor and common sense and logic can also
> > be used to be sure there was a conspiracy too.
>
> Ockham's Razor favors the simplest solution which in this case is LHO
> did this crime by himself. Can you give us an example of commonsense
> and logic that leads to conspiracy?
>
that Oswald liked JFK. Common sense says he would pick out some other
high ranking politician if he wanted to make s statement.
> > Once that is accepted, we can move on to who and where they
> > were.
>
> Acceptance based on what? As you can see Ockham's Razor takes us in
> the opposite direction you want it to go. Commonsense and Logic are
> based on available evidence, all of which points to the owner of the
> rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.
conspiracy and Oswald was the patsy. There HAD to be a patsy, or they
would be barking down a trail of conspiracy for years and if anyone was
caught, the truth might come out. Having a patsy also meant that the
getaway would be less stressful and no one would be coming after them.
Chris
Anthony Marsh
May 11, 2013, 10:28:33 PM5/11/13
to
can't even admit that.
>> Once that is accepted, we can move on to who and where they
>> were.
>
> Acceptance based on what? As you can see Ockham's Razor takes us in
> the opposite direction you want it to go. Commonsense and Logic are
> based on available evidence, all of which points to the owner of the
> rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.
>
>
do.
>
>
>
mainframetech
May 12, 2013, 6:20:31 PM5/12/13
to
the sound tests that there were [at least] 2 directions that bullets
came from, the TSBD 6th floor and the GK. They also ruled it a
probable conspiracy.
> >> Once that is accepted, we can move on to who and where they
> >> were.
>
> > Acceptance based on what? As you can see Ockham's Razor takes us in
> > the opposite direction you want it to go. Commonsense and Logic are
> > based on available evidence, all of which points to the owner of the
> > rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.
>
> Occam's Razor does not apply to conspiracies. Math does not lie. People
> do.
>
believing whatever was planned for them to think.
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