Kaiser sites my Ferrie phone list article
Canuck
Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
Nov. 18 I believe. You can read the article at
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/whitmeyferrie.htm, along with the 12 - page
long distance list.
- Peter R. Whitmey
ak
> David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
Yes that was an excellent article. You proved, to me anyway, that
when Ferrie told the SS he hadn't been in Texas for 10 years, he lied,
because his calls TO the office showed he was in Texas several times.
Could be an innocent explanation, but why lie to the feds about it,
which is in and of itself a crime? Also showed he traveled to many
places, including from my memory, Arlington Virginia and Washington
DC.
What if any new evidence is in the Kaiser book? What is his main
thesis?
curtjester1
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
Peter, I was looking at your Tom Tilson article. Maybe you can help piece
some of this together. First, it is opined that this man coming down the
embankment would be coming down as the motorcade passed. That, IMO, could
not be as there would be too much to do from the place of the shooting,
the handing over of the rifle, going either back into the parking lot, or
traversing along the picket fence, and then going over multiple sets of
tracks just to get to the other side of the Triple Underpass. The
motorcade would have been well past by that time.
The McIntire photo was probably too early for any seeing of that potential
man. It was also too far down most likely for any of the witnesses (looks
about 1/4 mile), to see anything or for the photo to pick up a Dan Rather
or even a car if it were parked behind the billboard. Also, Tilson
wouldn't be seen anyway since he was on Commerce. Tilson, IMO, could have
seen what he saw, but would have been mistaken slightly as to when the man
would have come down the embankment.
Ruby drove a 1960 Oldsmobile at the time. Too bad Tilson didn't keep the
license number, as they could have been checked quite easily. I also
wonder what kind of photo McIntire took, and if there was any Authority
Agent that took control of it before the photos were developed?
CJ
Canuck
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
Make that Dec. 1961 until early Dec. 1963.
curtjester1
I also wonder too if that is why no one on the Triple Underpass was
called besides the obvious of where the shots came from? They would
have seen someone crossing the tracks.
CJ
Steve Thomas
> David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
How do you know the calls from Texas to Gill's office were
from Ferrie?
Anthony Marsh
I don't get your point. Who crossing when? And maybe those on the RR
Triple Underpass had already run around to the parking lot by then.
> CJ
>
Canuck
When Gill's secretary gathered the long distance bills requested by
Garrison's office (which did not include Nov. 1963, with no explanation
given that I know of), she methodically drew a line through all those
calls that she knew were not made by Ferrie, mainly ones within Louisiana.
I don't recall either G. Wray Gill or anyone else from his office stating
that Ferrie did not make the voluminous number of long distance calls
either from the office or "collect" from places that including Dallas and
Ft. Worth. Therefore, I assumed that the secretary knew what she was
doing.
It would appear that either Ferrie was allowed to phone long distance
whenever he felt like it over a two-year period, or someone in the office
(such as the secretary) failed to notice all these calls being made when
the monthly bill was paid. Supposedly Gill was upset when he learned what
Ferrie had been doing, but probably this was after he died, and maybe he
was simply faking his annoyance. The fact that the November, 1963 was
missing is certainly significant and suspicious, don't you think? It's
too bad Ferrie didn't live long enough to provide his own "innocent"
explanation, but, of course, he conveniently died shortly after the New
Orleans media discovered he was being investigated by Garrison. He
certainly acted paranoid for someone who had nothing to hide.
Btw, when interviewed by the FBI in late 1963, he referred to Oswald as a
"psycho", which is exactly the word used to describe Oswald, overheard by
Richard Giesbrecht at a restaurant where he was waiting for a customer, at
the Winnipeg International Airport on Feb. 13, 1964. When he saw a
picture of Ferrie after his death in the Winnipeg Tribune, he realized he
was the man he hears call Ferrie at "psycho", and who was concerned about
what Oswald knew and what he had told his wife (who had just been
interviewed by the W.C. and whose photo was on the cover of TIME magazine
that week).
Apparently Ferrie flew to Cleveland that day for his uncle's funeral, so
it's conceivable he went first to Winnipeg and then back to Cleveland or
vice-versa. All three of my Giesbrecht articles are available at Ken
Rahn's site at: http://www.kenrahn.com, and "The Winnipeg Airport
Incident" is available to John McAdams' at:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm (scroll down to a list of articles
including some of mine.
I'm surprised Dave Reitzes hasn't responded, as he used to (on this
subject and many others) immediately.
- Peter R. Whitmey
Canuck
> David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
Make that "cites" - prw
Steve Thomas
> On May 14, 8:17 am, Steve Thomas <misledrks...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 11:25 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> > > Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> > > phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> > > were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> > > Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> > > phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> > > fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> > > most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> > > up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> > > Nov. 18 I believe. You can read the article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/whitmeyferrie.htm, along with the 12 - page
> > > long distance list.
>
> > > - Peter R. Whitmey
>
> > How do you know the calls from Texas to Gill's office were
> > from Ferrie?
>
> When Gill's secretary gathered the long distance bills requested by
> Garrison's office (which did not include Nov. 1963, with no explanation
> given that I know of),
I remember Blackburst saying something about this but i dont
remember exactly what, he had an answer that may or may not have been
acceptable but i cant recall what it was or if it was even the same
subject. I know thats not a lot of help lol, hope he jumps in here
somewhere.
>she methodically drew a line through all those
> calls that she knew were not made by Ferrie, mainly ones within Louisiana.
This is where i have a problem, sounds like she was only drawing
lines through the ones she was positive on.
> I don't recall either G. Wray Gill or anyone else from his office stating
> that Ferrie did not make the voluminous number of long distance calls
> either from the office or "collect" from places that including Dallas and
> Ft. Worth. Therefore, I assumed that the secretary knew what she was
> doing.
Thats the problem, we have to ASSUME she knew EVERY call NOT made by
Ferrie, which would leave only calls made by Ferrie. I wish i had a
secretary that could do that, but i dont think its possible, and thats
an assumption on my part too, but i think more plausable than her
actually remembering every call not made by Ferrie.
>
> It would appear that either Ferrie was allowed to phone long distance
> whenever he felt like it over a two-year period, or someone in the office
> (such as the secretary) failed to notice all these calls being made when
> the monthly bill was paid. Supposedly Gill was upset when he learned what
> Ferrie had been doing, but probably this was after he died, and maybe he
> was simply faking his annoyance. The fact that the November, 1963 was
> missing is certainly significant and suspicious, don't you think?
Wish i could remember what Blackburst posted on this, may have been
Garrison didnt ask for Nov records.
> It's
> too bad Ferrie didn't live long enough to provide his own "innocent"
> explanation, but, of course, he conveniently died shortly after the New
> Orleans media discovered he was being investigated by Garrison. He
> certainly acted paranoid for someone who had nothing to hide.
>
> Btw, when interviewed by the FBI in late 1963, he referred to Oswald as a
> "psycho", which is exactly the word used to describe Oswald, overheard by
> Richard Giesbrecht at a restaurant where he was waiting for a customer, at
> the Winnipeg International Airport on Feb. 13, 1964. When he saw a
> picture of Ferrie after his death in the Winnipeg Tribune, he realized he
> was the man he hears call Ferrie at "psycho", and who was concerned about
> what Oswald knew and what he had told his wife (who had just been
> interviewed by the W.C. and whose photo was on the cover of TIME magazine
> that week).
>
> Apparently Ferrie flew to Cleveland that day for his uncle's funeral, so
> it's conceivable he went first to Winnipeg and then back to Cleveland or
> vice-versa.
Wouldnt there be a flight record if he flew to Winnipeg? Not sure
just asking.
> All three of my Giesbrecht articles are available at Ken
> Rahn's site at:http://www.kenrahn.com, and "The Winnipeg Airport
> Incident" is available to John McAdams' at:http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm(scroll down to a list of articles
> including some of mine.
>
> I'm surprised Dave Reitzes hasn't responded, as he used to (on this
> subject and many others) immediately.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
curtjester1
> David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
This was all just part of the cover-up Peter. I recommend reading Mafia
Kingfish, by John Davis. The thing that is intruiging is trying to figure
our who did what, when.
How did Martiin even catch onto there was a library card missing in order
for Ferrie to get excited about getting back to New Orleans? There must
have been a 'mole' inside of DPD that tipped off the necessary people to
get there acts together. Unfortunately for Martin he got a little too
excited as a messenger and spilled the obvious connections between Oswald
and Ferrie. Of course did the usual CIA type stuff of deny, deny, deny
came from Ferrie, but anybody would know that this was a total piece of
crap when he went to Oswald's old residence and next door on coming back
and going through hysterics by asking the landlord and the next door
neighbor for clues on finding the library card. Imagine him denying he
ever gave Oswald a library card and have no follow up by the authorities?
Of course the bigger wonder, is how they could have taken the word of the
lawyer he was working for by saying how the November phone records
'disappeared' while the September and October ones somehow 'survived'.
Of course Ruby's phone records are just as if not more compelling. One
was the exact time Ferrie went over to Galveston was the exact time Ruby
was receiving calls long distance calls at the Carousel to Crafard (Ruby
not there), and telling Crafard it was none of his business when he
inquired who the caller was. Also there was a Breck Wall a USVA official
that rolled into Galveston the same time Ferrie did, and who Ruby was
known to have made a call to. And I believe Martin changed his tune when
Banister beat the crap out of him.
CJ
Canuck
> On May 14, 9:55 pm,Canuck<prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 8:17 am, Steve Thomas <misledrks...@aol.com> wrote:
>
Why in the world would Garrison not want to look at the Nov. 1963 phone
records?
- prw
Steve Thomas
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not sure that was it(may be though, i cant remember exactly), i was
hoping Blackburst would zone in on this thread. I do remember him
addressing this issue not long ago.
Steve Thomas
>
> - Show quoted text -
I could ask myself a thousand questions about Garrison, starting
with why he never found any of the mob links that are there, and why
he found many CIA links that arent there.
Steve Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 11:25 pm, Canuck <prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> > > Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> > > phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> > > were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> > > Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> > > phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> > > fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> > > most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> > > up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> > > Nov. 18 I believe. You can read the article athttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/whitmeyferrie.htm, along with the 12 - page
> > > long distance list.
>
> > > - Peter R. Whitmey
>
> > How do you know the calls from Texas to Gill's office were
> > from Ferrie?
>
> When Gill's secretary gathered the long distance bills requested by
> Garrison's office (which did not include Nov. 1963, with no explanation
> given that I know of), she methodically drew a line through all those
> calls that she knew were not made by Ferrie, mainly ones within Louisiana.
3 years later, and this is the list of other people in the office
other than Ferrie.
G. Wray Gill Sr.
Gilbert Bernstein
Gerard H. Schreiber
George W. Gill Jr.
Alice Guidroz
Regina Francovich
Morris L. Brownlee
plus 1 other secretary and 2 investigators
How would someone remember what calls were made by who 3 years
later?
> Incident" is available to John McAdams' at:http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm(scroll down to a list of articles
> including some of mine.
>
> I'm surprised Dave Reitzes hasn't responded, as he used to (on this
> subject and many others) immediately.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey- Hide quoted text -
Canuck
> On May 14, 9:55 pm,Canuck<prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 8:17 am, Steve Thomas <misledrks...@aol.com> wrote:
>
I would presume that the secretary knew that the other members of Gill's
office had no reason to be making calls all over the U.S. (as well as
Central America and Canada), as they were either lawyers or legal
assistants involved in legal work within Louisiana. Keep in mind that
both Gill and Ferrie were closely connected to Carlos Marcello, whom RFK
was trying to have kicked out of the U.S. for good, unsuccessfully, as it
turned out. Intriguingly, there was a cover story about Marcello in Sat.
Eve. Post in Feb. 1964 as I recall, and reference was made to the fact
that Marcello won his case on Nov. 22, 1963, but no comment was made about
the fact that happened to be the day JFK was assassinated. There was also
an article in the spring about an alleged attempt by Hoffa to have RFK
killed with a bomb, according to a member of the Teamster's in Lousiana
who came forward and who was photographed for the article. But again, no
reference was made to JFK's assassination and the possibility of mob
involvement (as well as Hoffa's). - prw
Canuck
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Hoffa story appeared in both Sat. Eve. Post as well as Life. - prw
Papa Andy
> David Kaiser, author of THE ROAD TO DALLAS, cites my article "Did David
> Ferrie Lie To The Secret Service?" and the attached two-year long distance
> phone list that I compiled, drawn from the Bell South phone bills that
> were turned over to Garrison's office. What is most significant about
> Ferrie's use of two office phones is the quantity and variety of locations
> phoned during the period from early 1961 to the fall of 1963, as well the
> fact that the only phone bill that was not included happened to be the
> most important - November, 1963. Intriguingly, a couple of calls did end
> up on the Dec. 1963 bill, including a collect call from Houston made on
> long distance list.
>
> - Peter R. Whitmey
seems he spelled your name wrong though
A
Canuck
That happens all the time, but it is spelled correctly in the endnotes
section. Prof. Kaiser probably spelled it correctly, but the typist
likely changed the "m" to "n". Btw, I have traced my last name back
to my great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, Isaac Whitmey, who
was married in Shenley, Buckinghamshire, England in 1718.
Unfortunately, there is no christening record for him at the church
where he was married. A first cousin-once removed named Gary Whitmey
(which means his father is my first cousin) actually lives near
Shenley (which is listed in the Domesday Book, no on-line). He looked
at the actual church records, which have been recorded by the Mormon
Church and are available at their website.
There is only one family named "Whitmey" in the U.S., who live in Dana
Pt., CA, but amazingly, we are not related. They are also from
England, but not the same area of the country, and a family member has
also gone back to the 1700s.
At that time, there were many people with the name "Whitmey" in
various counties, but I guess over the years most of the men must have
changed their names to "Whitney", while most of the women, of course,
got married. There are only two families in Canada with the name, and
the father (Edward, now deceased) and my father were second cousins
(which makes his four children and me third cousins), but they didn't
know about each other. Edward and his family moved to Peace River,
Alberta in the late 1940s, and one of his sons is an actor named Nigel
Whitmey (married to John Thaw's daughter - "Inspector Morse"). Nigel
moved to England in 1986. He looks a lot like my father (now
deceased).
- Peter R. Whitmey
Peter Fokes
By coincidence, I knew someone in my younger days named Peter Whitney.
I always check twice when I send a response to Whitmey to make sure I
haven't used Whitney by mistake.
>
>- Peter R. Whitmey
PF
Canuck
> On 19 May 2008 15:10:51 -0400,Canuck<prwhit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On May 19, 9:29 am, Papa Andy <playisomemu...@email.com> wrote:
There is a "Peter Whitmee" listed in the telephone directory living in
New Brunswick.
That variation of the name was derived from "Whitmey", although some
years ago a woman in Nanaimo whom I contacted whose maiden name was
"Whitmee" had never heard of "Whitmey" and assumed it was derived from
her version.
If you do a search under "Whitmey", you get some hilarious "typos"
such as: Whitmey Houston, Mt. Whitmey, Pratt & Whitmey, etc.
- prw
>
> I always check twice when I send a response to Whitmey to make sure I
> haven't used Whitney by mistake.
>
>
>
> >- Peter R. Whitmey
>
> PF- Hide quoted text -
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That was Tom Tilson an off duty sheriff who was driving into Dealey as
the motorcade was coming out. He said he saw a man carrying something
come fast down the hill and throw something into the back seat of a
car parked there and take off. He had to come from the GK area, cross
the tracks and come down the slope on the other side. That was in
another article besides the one they were talking about here that was
located inside the topic article.
CJ
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -
In the Ferrie returning from Texas process, Garrison wasn't a CT and
thought a gov't job on JFK impossible. The FBI had interrogated
Ferrie for tow days and Garrison was satisfied with the results. Of
course the FBI bought into Gill's explanation for not having his Nov.
1963 phone records, too..ahem, ahem. And all this 100 pages of the
interrogation of Ferrie was buried in the National Archives and then
later lost.
What is interesting is that Ferrie is purported to have phoned Gill
from points in Texas even on the day of the assassination, and Ferrie
even called the Town and Country Restaurant (Marcello's) during the
trip. The phone calls from Ferrie to Gill would heavily implicate
that whole N.O. clan in the assassination...and was later deemed to be
a Jack Martin rumor thing. Ferrie, though, went to Oswald's old abode
in New Orleans looking for something pertaining to his library card
that was supposedly found on LHO at his arrest in Dallas. Having this
knowledge before his trip and before Martin could have uttered
anything is glaring in it's weight of imporance. Now back to the Gill-
Ferrie purported phone calls. Supposedly from spots in Texas not too
long after the assassination. This is cited in Contract On America
pg. 41 and supported by cite on Notes to Pages on pg. 410. Here it
states the phone calls to reference CD, pg 291, and says that this in
the Report (I assume WR), and is not written in writing in that
Report, hence the CD notation.
CJ
Canuck
What was Gill's explanation for the missing Nov. 1963 phone records? As
"Church Lady" would say, "How convenient?" Why couldn't they have been
obtained by the FBI from Bell South? Could it be that Hoover vetoed such
plans, in that it might lead to the possibility of mob involvement in the
assassination?
- Peter R. Whitmey
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's a good question. It would seem so because of the weightiness of the
potential implications. The office had offered Sept. and Oct's and
somehow 'bought' that November's was "unavailable." I guess so, they
wouldn't have got the phone bill, S.A. J. Smith!! You have to go look for
it! I am sure you remember the piece I wrote concerning the phone calls
between Ruby and Oswald two weeks ago. Southwest's Raymond Acker brought
the records to DPD, and was told to get lost in very uncomfortable terms.
It is also known that the SS when interrogating Marina on Sunday morning,
the 24th, were already asking her if Oswald knew Ferrie. Why and how
would they know to even do so?
CJ