Malcolm Summers
claviger
plainclothes man with a gun behind the Grassy Knoll.
"Hail of Bullets"--November 22, 1963 Revisited
http://hailofbullets11221963.blogspot.com/
Anthony Marsh
man shoot from the TSBD. So what?
claviger
window. The story Summers tells is rather odd. A crowd of people
descended on the GK within a few minutes. Why would a sniper who just
took a shot at the POTUS single out one guy and warn him away? At this
point why would the assassin waste time talking to one guy or anybody else
for that matter? The best exit strategy is to blend into the crowd and
slip away. Initiating a conversation and exposing his gun calling
attention to himself is the last thing he should be doing if he wants to
escape unnoticed. No professional hit- man would be that stupid. I have
to think Summers saw a plainclothes police officer.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 4, 12:39 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 10/3/2011 9:45 PM, claviger wrote:
>>
>>> Malcolm Summers is the only witness to report seeing a suspicious
>>> plainclothes man with a gun behind the Grassy Knoll.
>>
>>> "Hail of Bullets"--November 22, 1963 Revisited
>>> http://hailofbullets11221963.blogspot.com/
>>
>> OK. So what? Howard Brennan is the only witness to reporting seeing a
>> man shoot from the TSBD. So what?
>
> IIRC at least six witnesses saw someone firing a rifle from the 6th floor
> window. The story Summers tells is rather odd. A crowd of people
confabulating.
> descended on the GK within a few minutes. Why would a sniper who just
> took a shot at the POTUS single out one guy and warn him away? At this
> point why would the assassin waste time talking to one guy or anybody else
> for that matter? The best exit strategy is to blend into the crowd and
> slip away. Initiating a conversation and exposing his gun calling
arguments somewhere?
> attention to himself is the last thing he should be doing if he wants to
> escape unnoticed. No professional hit- man would be that stupid. I have
> to think Summers saw a plainclothes police officer.
>
Tell me the cop's name.
>
>
>
>
>
>
John McAdams
wrote:
that the man he saw was *northeast* of the Pergola. Not behind the
Stockade Fence.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
claviger
> On 3 Oct 2011 21:45:32 -0400, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com>
Thanks for that info. Northeast of the pergola is the TSBD so I
assume he means somewhere along the Elm St extension or around the
west side corner of the building.
David Von Pein
>>> "Summers is interviewed in the NOVA documentary. He makes it clear that the man he saw was *northeast* of the Pergola. Not behind the Stockade Fence." <<<
And it's something I was going to bring up a long time ago, but then I
forgot to do so.
But .John is absolutely correct, and we even see Summers (on film) in
the 1988 NOVA/PBS program performing a re-creation of his 11/22/63
actions, and when he crosses Elm Street, he doesn't head toward the
famous "picket fence" area of the Grassy Knoll at all. Instead, he
runs NORTHEAST, directly toward the Book Depository.
Summers can be seen running toward the Depository and AWAY from the
picket fence area in the video below (see Part 3, at the 6:30 mark):
http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-shot-president-kennedy.html
claviger
> On 10/4/2011 8:35 PM, claviger wrote:
>
> > On Oct 4, 12:39 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> On 10/3/2011 9:45 PM, claviger wrote:
> >>> Malcolm Summers is the only witness to report seeing a suspicious
> >>> plainclothes man with a gun behind the Grassy Knoll.
> >>> "Hail of Bullets"--November 22, 1963 Revisited
> >>>http://hailofbullets11221963.blogspot.com/
> >> OK. So what? Howard Brennan is the only witness to reporting seeing a
> >> man shoot from the TSBD. So what?
> > IIRC at least six witnesses saw someone firing a rifle from the 6th floor
> > window. The story Summers tells is rather odd. A crowd of people
> That is not true. Not all 6 actually saw the rifle being fired. You are
> confabulating.
> > descended on the GK within a few minutes. Why would a sniper who just
> > took a shot at the POTUS single out one guy and warn him away? At this
> Who said that happened?
> > point why would the assassin waste time talking to one guy or anybody else
> > for that matter? The best exit strategy is to blend into the crowd and
> Smith had his gun drawn.
not wearing a uniform.
> > slip away. Initiating a conversation and exposing his gun calling
> Who said anything about exposing a gun? Do you buy these straw man
> arguments somewhere?
> > attention to himself is the last thing he should be doing if he wants to
> > escape unnoticed. No professional hit- man would be that stupid. I have
> > to think Summers saw a plainclothes police officer.
> Yeah, so what?
> Tell me the cop's name.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 5, 9:57 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 10/4/2011 8:35 PM, claviger wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 4, 12:39 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/3/2011 9:45 PM, claviger wrote:
>>>>> Malcolm Summers is the only witness to report seeing a suspicious
>>>>> plainclothes man with a gun behind the Grassy Knoll.
>>>>> "Hail of Bullets"--November 22, 1963 Revisited
>>>>> http://hailofbullets11221963.blogspot.com/
>>>> OK. So what? Howard Brennan is the only witness to reporting seeing a
>>>> man shoot from the TSBD. So what?
>>> IIRC at least six witnesses saw someone firing a rifle from the 6th floor
>>> window. The story Summers tells is rather odd. A crowd of people
>> That is not true. Not all 6 actually saw the rifle being fired. You are
>> confabulating.
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/d1aa2ac320059854
>
>>> descended on the GK within a few minutes. Why would a sniper who just
>>> took a shot at the POTUS single out one guy and warn him away? At this
>> Who said that happened?
> Malcolm Summers
>
Did he say he knew the guy was the sniper?
>>> point why would the assassin waste time talking to one guy or anybody else
>>> for that matter? The best exit strategy is to blend into the crowd and
>> Smith had his gun drawn.
> So what? This confrontation took place between Summers and someone
> not wearing a uniform.
>
Smith did not see this man blending into a crowd. There was no crowd
yet. The man was the only one there.
>>> slip away. Initiating a conversation and exposing his gun calling
>> Who said anything about exposing a gun? Do you buy these straw man
>> arguments somewhere?
> Did you bother to read Summer's story? Obviously not.
>
>>> attention to himself is the last thing he should be doing if he wants to
>>> escape unnoticed. No professional hit- man would be that stupid. I have
>>> to think Summers saw a plainclothes police officer.
>> Yeah, so what?
>> Tell me the cop's name.
> Detective Richard B. Tracy.
>
>
Typical evasion.
Anthony Marsh
Wonderful. And how many seconds or minutes after the shooting does this
encounter take place? We know at the time of the shooting that Summers was
diving for the ground because we can see him doing that in the Zapruder
film. So show me the photo or film which shows when Summers crosses the
street. You don't think the shooter could walk from the fence up to the
East shelter in 45 seconds? It took some people almost a minute to cross
Elm because of all the cars.
David Von Pein
>>> "You don't think the shooter could walk from the fence up to the East
shelter in 45 seconds? It took some people almost a minute to cross Elm
because of all the cars." <<<
The main point re this topic (IMO) is that Summers ran toward the
Depository right after the shooting--not the picket fence. But many CTers
seem to think that Summers ran toward the Knoll/Picket Fence. But as
Summers demonstrated himself in '88, that just ain't so.
claviger
> On 10/7/2011 10:05 AM, David Von Pein wrote: > > >>>> "Summers is
> interviewed in the NOVA documentary. He makes it clear that the man he
> saw was *northeast* of the Pergola. Not behind the Stockade Fence."<<<
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Professor McAdams beat me to this comment regarding Malcolm Summers.
> > And it's something I was going to bring up a long time ago, but then I
> > forgot to do so.
>
> > But .John is absolutely correct, and we even see Summers (on film) in
> > the 1988 NOVA/PBS program performing a re-creation of his 11/22/63
> > actions, and when he crosses Elm Street, he doesn't head toward the
> > famous "picket fence" area of the Grassy Knoll at all. Instead, he
> > runs NORTHEAST, directly toward the Book Depository.
>
> > Summers can be seen running toward the Depository and AWAY from the
> > picket fence area in the video below (see Part 3, at the 6:30 mark):
>
>
> Wonderful. And how many seconds or minutes after the shooting does this
> encounter take place? We know at the time of the shooting that Summers was
> diving for the ground because we can see him doing that in the Zapruder
> film. So show me the photo or film which shows when Summers crosses the
> street. You don't think the shooter could walk from the fence up to the
> East shelter in 45 seconds? It took some people almost a minute to cross
> Elm because of all the cars.
"After the limousine had passed, Malcolm said he got up and immediately
ran across Elm Street because that's where everyone else was running.
However, I was surprised he said he didn't dart up the Grassy Knoll behind
the infamous picket fence. Rather, Malcolm said he went up the street and
to the far-east end of a concrete pergola, made a left on the street
adjacent to the Texas School Book Depository and headed toward the
railroad tracks behind the picket fence where everyone else seemed to be
headed. As he headed west towards the picket fence where the commotion
seemed to be directed he had a chance encounter."
He either ran toward the corner of Elm and Houston and cut across and came
down Elm extension, or possibly up the east side of the lawn in front of
the pergola.
claviger
> >>> descended on the GK within a few minutes. Why would a sniper who just
> >>> took a shot at the POTUS single out one guy and warn him away? At this
> >> Who said that happened?
> > Malcolm Summers
> Did he say he knew the guy was the sniper?
No, all Summers is saying is a man in plain clothes warned him to be
careful and Summers noticed a gun barrel under the coat the guy had folded
over his arm.
"A nattily-dressed man wearing a fedora hat, coat and tie with a topcoat
draped over his arm stepped in front of him and stopped him cold. He told
Malcolm that he might want to get out of there or he "could get shot." At
this point, the man pulled back enough of his top coat draping over his
arm to reveal a gun barrel. Thinking the authorities had apprehended
someone back there and seeing the gun and implied threat, Malcolm didn't
need to be told twice. He obliged and ambled back across Dealey Plaza."
> >>> point why would the assassin waste time talking to one guy or anybody else
> >>> for that matter? The best exit strategy is to blend into the crowd and
> >> Smith had his gun drawn.
> > So what? This confrontation took place between Summers and someone
> > not wearing a uniform.
> Smith did not see this man blending into a crowd. There was no crowd
> yet. The man was the only one there.
Mr. SMITH. I started up toward this Book Depository after I heard the
shots, and I didn't know where the shots came from. I had no idea,
because it was such a ricochet.
Mr. LIEBELER. An echo effect?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.; and this woman came up to me and she was just in
hysterics. She told me, "They are shooting the President from the
bushes." So I immediately proceeded up here.
Mr. LIEBELER. You proceeded up to an area immediately behind the
concrete structure here that is described by Elm Street and the street
that runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository, is
that right?
Mr. SMITH. I was checking all the bushes and I checked all the cars in
the parking lot.
Mr. LIEBELER. There is a parking lot in behind this grassy area back
from Elm Street toward the railroad tracks, and you went down to the
parking lot and looked around?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; I checked all the cars. I looked into all the
cars and checked around the bushes. Of course, I wasn't alone. There
was some deputy sheriff with me, and I believe one Secret Service man
when I got there.
Anthony Marsh
> Anthony,
>
>>>>> descended on the GK within a few minutes. Why would a sniper who just
>>>>> took a shot at the POTUS single out one guy and warn him away? At this
>>>> Who said that happened?
>>> Malcolm Summers
>> Did he say he knew the guy was the sniper?
>
> No, all Summers is saying is a man in plain clothes warned him to be
> careful and Summers noticed a gun barrel under the coat the guy had folded
> over his arm.
>
> "A nattily-dressed man wearing a fedora hat, coat and tie with a topcoat
> draped over his arm stepped in front of him and stopped him cold. He told
> Malcolm that he might want to get out of there or he "could get shot." At
> this point, the man pulled back enough of his top coat draping over his
> arm to reveal a gun barrel. Thinking the authorities had apprehended
> someone back there and seeing the gun and implied threat, Malcolm didn't
> need to be told twice. He obliged and ambled back across Dealey Plaza."
>
A gun barrel as in a detective's revolver. That does not make him the
sniper.
AND???
Anthony Marsh
And you know it took the crowd at least 45 seconds to rush up the grassy
knoll.
> However, I was surprised he said he didn't dart up the Grassy Knoll behind
> the infamous picket fence. Rather, Malcolm said he went up the street and
> to the far-east end of a concrete pergola, made a left on the street
> adjacent to the Texas School Book Depository and headed toward the
> railroad tracks behind the picket fence where everyone else seemed to be
> headed. As he headed west towards the picket fence where the commotion
> seemed to be directed he had a chance encounter."
>
Maybe he wanted to see the Choo-Choo trains.
> He either ran toward the corner of Elm and Houston and cut across and came
> down Elm extension, or possibly up the east side of the lawn in front of
> the pergola.
>
Something like that. Whatever you do, make sure you guess about 10 times.
>
>
Anthony Marsh
Did he actually demonstrate how he ran? I don't remember which
documentary that was on.
David Von Pein
>>> "Did he actually demonstrate how he ran? I don't remember which documentary that was on." <<<
Oh, for Pete sake, I provided a video link to it in a previous post on
Oct. 7 at 10:05 AM EDT, which you saw, because you responded to it.
Anthony Marsh
No, you just posted a general link to your Web site. You make us guess and
search for the specific video you were talking about. You need to learn
how to post links which will take us directly to the thing you are talking
about. If I have a few hours to waste this week I'll spend them searching
your entire web site looking for 5 seconds of a clip.
Jean Davison
You never cease to amaze me, Tony. The same day you told
David "you need to learn how to post links," because you don't want to
waste your time searching, you complain when someone else asks for a
link from *you*:
QUOTE:
>>>>>>>
Are you claiming that you don't know how to use
the Internet to find thousands of articles on a subject? Maybe there
are
some features in Advanced Search that you didn't know about. You need
some
sitting next to you at your computer teaching you how to search the
Internet?
>>>>>>
UNQUOTE
So when you want a link, it should be provided, but when
someone wants a link from *you*, they should learn how to Google
it. LOL.
Jean
bigdog
One thing you can count on. TM will be consistently inconsistent.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 9, 8:38 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 10/9/2011 10:43 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> "Did he actually demonstrate how he ran? I don't remember which documentary that was on."<<<
>>
>>> Oh, for Pete sake, I provided a video link to it in a previous post on
>>> Oct. 7 at 10:05 AM EDT, which you saw, because you responded to it.
>>
>> No, you just posted a general link to your Web site. You make us guess and
>> search for the specific video you were talking about. You need to learn
>> how to post links which will take us directly to the thing you are talking
>> about. If I have a few hours to waste this week I'll spend them searching
>>
>
> You never cease to amaze me, Tony. The same day you told
> David "you need to learn how to post links," because you don't want to
> waste your time searching, you complain when someone else asks for a
> link from *you*:
>
You're unbelievable. You think that if I dare criticize one of your
buddies you must in knee-jerk fashion attack me.
You missed the whole point. I was not criticizing your buddy for NOT
posting a link. I was explaining that his link was not specific enough. It
would be like my telling someone to read my article and then just posting
the home page of my Web site. The person would have to look all over my
Web site to find that specific article. For example you may remember that
I demonstrated to McAdams that a shot from the Badge Man position could
theoretically hit JFK's head at Z-313, contrary to his disinformation. So
here is that proof:
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/
Now tell everyone how long it takes you to find the article.
And I had already posted a very specific link to the scan of the map
that the other person had asked about. Many times. He just has some
problem paying attention, like you. It seems to be something passed
around within the WC defender ranks like the flu.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/ovs-scan.gif
Now why don't you take a look at that and complain about how big it is?
Don't try to save it because then you'll complain that I am wasting too
much of your disc space.
One of the newbies complained that he went to a link to the Roberdeau
map and it was too small to see. He didn't know that he had to click on
it to see the original large size. He didn't even know how to right
click and save it. I hope you've figured out how to do that.
Now next week pretend that you didn't just read this message and demand
that I post a link to the map.
The do the same thing the next month.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat . . .
> QUOTE:
>>>>>>>>
> Are you claiming that you don't know how to use
> the Internet to find thousands of articles on a subject? Maybe there
> are
> some features in Advanced Search that you didn't know about. You need
> some
> sitting next to you at your computer teaching you how to search the
> Internet?
>>>>>>>
> UNQUOTE
>
> So when you want a link, it should be provided, but when
> someone wants a link from *you*, they should learn how to Google
> it. LOL.
>
Not for my articles. I don't pay Google to get my links on the top of
the list. I was talking about OTHER articles on OTHER web sites.
But thanks for your knee-jerk attack. It reminds us of whose side you
are on.
> Jean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
David Von Pein
>>> "No, you just posted a general link to your Web site. You make us
guess and search for the specific video you were talking about. You need
to learn how to post links which will take us directly to the thing you
are talking about. If I have a few hours to waste this week I'll spend
them searching your entire web site looking for 5 seconds of a clip." <<<
More bullshit from Tony the Tiger. Tony needs to learn to read. Not only
did I provide a link to a specific individual page from a website of mine
that has hundreds of other pages on it, I even provided the exact "Part"
number and the exact TIME within the video where the Summers clip can be
found.
Here's exactly what I said when I linked to the Summers clip:
"Summers can be seen running toward the Depository and AWAY from the
picket fence area in the video below (see Part 3, at the 6:30 mark)..." --
DVP; 10/7/2011
http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-shot-president-kennedy.html
So when Marsh said this --- "You need to learn how to post links which
will take us directly to the thing you are talking about" --- he
apparently didn't realize (or care) that I did exactly that very thing in
my earlier post re this matter.
Tony, you're unbelievable.
Let me guess what Marsh's next response will be after seeing this post of
mine --- Tony will say that I should have taken the time and effort to
excise the short clip of Malcolm Summers running directly toward the TSBD,
and I should have uploaded that short clip separately and then posted it
to a new, separate page on my website--just for Tony's convenience (IOW:
because Tony's too lazy to advance the video to the 6:30 mark, which is
exactly where I stated the clip could be found).
Anthony Marsh
Two different issues.
Try to focus.
Jean Davison
Wrong thread, Tony. The quote above is not about maps. It's
from your reply to John Canal, who asked for a link to articles you'd
written. If you don't see a double standard there, fine. Sorry I brought
it up.
Jean
Anthony Marsh
page which shows the program in 4 parts at least tell us which part has
the clip we want to see.
David Von Pein
>>> "...but if you are going to link to a page which shows the program in
Jesus! Is this guy named Marsh for real here?!
Did Tony just totally skip the part where I explain this, which is in the
VERY POST HE'S RESPONDING TO?
Incredible.
Sandy McCroskey
/sm