LHO, religious scams, quacks and quakers
Magic Bullet
emphasis.
From Eugenics and the Christian Ethic by Samuel Blumenfeld:
In 1908, Galton founded the Eugenics Society of Great Britain,
and in 1912 an international congress on eugenics was convened in
London. In 1907, Indiana passed the first laws allowing
sterilization of the mentally ill and criminally insane. By the
late 1920s similar laws had been passed in 28 states, sanctioned
by a 1927 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Buck v. Bell, which held
that it was constitutional to involuntarily sterilize the
developmentally disabled, the insane, or uncontrollably
epileptic. Oliver Wendell Holmes, supported by Louis Brandeis and
six other justices, wrote the opinion. As a result, by 1930,
15,000 individuals were sterilized in the United States.
Galton also had a very profound influence on American progressive
educators, those members of the PROTESTANT academic elite
who no longer believed in the religion of their fathers. They put
their new faith in SCIENCE, EVOLUTION, and PSYCHOLGY.
Science explained the nature of the material world, evolution
explained the origin of living matter, and psychology permitted
man to investigate human behavior and develop the means to
control it. Thus, the progressives found Galton's scientific
racism to be very compatible with their strong belief in
evolution and behavioral psychology.
____________________________________________________
From Oswald's Albert Schweitzer Lollege application:
Special interests: philosophy, PSYCHOLOGY, idealogy.
Favourite authors or books:
Jack London DARWIN, Norman V Peale, SCIENTIFIC (sic)
books, philosophy ect...
_____________________________________________________
And who was it Lee Harvey Oswald was referred to by the
New York Court system? The PROTESTANT Big Brothers
and The Federation of PROTESTANT WELFARE AGENCIES.
And who did Oswald associate with? Failed Catholic and
pseudo-PROTESTANT Old Catholic- David Ferrie;
PROTESTANT Quaker - Ruth Paine, PROTESTANT
Unitarian - Michael Paine; PROTESTANT Russian Orthodox
White Russians, and PROTESTANT Quaker and US
EUGENICS Society geneticist - Dr K.
______________________________________________________
And what were these PROTESTANT churches up to in NYC
during the 'fifties?
Well, this, according to articles by Edward Kent, a member of the
ACLU, and prolific author of web articles on social issues:
Many years ago I had a student summer job that entailed among
other things updating the directory for the Protestant Council of
Churches of the City of New York. I had taken on this job
because at the time the National Council of Churches housed
in the same building (the Protestant 'Vatican' at 475 Riverside
Drive in Upper Manhattan) had been a leading force in the then
civil rights efforts being launched by Martin Luther King, Jr.
and others. I thought that the PROTESTANT Council would be
the local equivalent. How wrong I was!
Things started out okay with the assignment to update the
Council's annual directory of NYC Protestant churches.
Traditional denominations sent in their lists of churches
as requested with particulars. However, as I moved down
the line I began to discover odd things -- that many
listed churches actually had the phone numbers of local bars;
others were rather weird organizations with mysterious
identities that, I discovered, were using their directory
listing as a credential. And as I became more familiar with
this operation some of the Council staff confided to me that
I was really working for a scam outfit that raised money
exclusively to support its leadership's salaries, that its
right wing businessmen (fundamentalist) trustees did not
even reside in NYC, that its executive head was a slum
landlord in Albany, that several of the major Protestant
organizations (Episcopalians and Presbyterians and its
Brooklyn branch) were fully aware of these anomalies and
had quietly disassociated themselves from this $1,000,000 a
year operation which was foisting itself on the public as the
PROTESTANT 'voice' of NYC. As fronts, it had enlisted
5 popular Protestant clergy -- Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. and
NORMAN VINCENT PEALE among others -- whose names
were prominently displayed in its promotions and probably
did not know what was going on -- I hope. Wider details were
filled in by the then executive director of the PROTESTANT
WELFARE AGENCIES to whom I took my concerns and who
pled what could he do and suggested that maybe the church was
not the place for me?
_____________________________________________________
PEALE was so interested in PSYCHOLOGYand psychiatry,
he opened up the Institute of Health and Religion with Dr Smiley
Blanton, a child psychiatrist who had trained under Fraud.
_____________________________________________________
In another article on this subject, Kent explains more of what
was happening with these churches:
It was known to be [a scam] by the Presbyterians and
Episcopalians who refused either to contribute to it or to
blow its cover -- or so the then executive director of the
NYC PROTESTANT WELFARE AGENCIES explained
to me. [Another] One of my jobs while working for this outfit
was to explain to people referred to it for advice about
adoption that they had to be a member of one of the 3
major religious groups to adopt because adoption was
handled only by religious agencies. No humanists
need apply -- suggested to one such couple that they declare
themselves to be 'Unitarians' to qualify.
During my first student year at Union Theological Seminary I
worked with a small group of kids in West Harlem.
My particular domain was a disaster area of buildings
being torn down to make way for middle and low income
housing. My little gang of kids were the post-war
'orphans' whose families had been drawn from the South
by good jobs during the war effort only to face layoffs when
the returning veterans reclaimed their jobs. Welfare did not
allow men to remain in the home with their families in those
days, so single mom parents were the legally enforced
pattern.
One particular family of about 6 kids was devastated when the
mother in response to a threat which I witnessed from her
social worker ("I will take away all your children, if you have
another!") had gotten herself badly injured and hospitalized
with an illegal abortion. Her children had no place to go and
one of the boys sought me out in my graduate student dorm for
help in getting back to his grandmother in Virginia. I checked
with the authorities who told me 'no way' and directed me to
deliver this 13-year old to the Orangeburg State Mental
Hospital which I did. It seems that abandoned NYC kids were
divided up in those days along religious lines -- Jewish,
Catholic, or PROTESTANT.
The Jewish agencies were excellent; the Catholic agencies were
there; PROTESTANT AGENCIES were virtually non-existent
and the only place the state had for such kids was its state
mental hospitals. African American kids were automatically
classified as 'PROTESTANT'. I will spare you the follow up
except to mention that because of this incarceration this
particular kid was denied access to the military where he
desperately wanted to serve. I next heard from the FBI that he
had been declared a draft dodger and where was he? He had
given my name as his referring adult to the draft board. I
subsequently learned that he was one of the all but 3 of this
particular little gang who had died violent deaths -- I do not
know the particulars of his.
_____________________________________________________
Hmmm... this could explain why Oswald was not given the
"treatment" that some of his NYC reports indicate he needed...
placement in a mental hospital or similar would have meant
he could not get into the military.... at least apparently not in
those pre-draft days...
______________________________________________________
I no longer have too many doubts about it: Oswald was under
the influence of members of these mostly fraudulant and fruity
churches... and though not shown here... those people had
connections to the SISS and the SSJD... all the clues are there
in Oswald's NYC records and in his Albert Schweitzer
College application. Other information from Dallas and NO
is just icing on the same cake, as is the possible Albert
Osborne and Quaker links in Mexico City.
greg
Clark Wilkins
I am very impressed with your research here. Although I feel comfortable
with my deductions for Oswald's activities in 1962-63 I have to admit
there are discrepancies between the "1959" Lee Harvey Oswald and the
"1963" LHO. Up until your posts, I had accepted LHO in the same light as
the LNer's view him - a leftwinger disappointed with America's treatment
of his mother. While this may be true, Oz's Albert Schweitzer application
flies in the face of his being unaided and acting alone in 1959. While,
quite obviously, his 1959 actions are unrelated to those of 1963, his
being assisted in 1959 raises questons about his having acted alone in
1963 (Of course, he can be assisted in 1959 and still act "alone" in
1963). I have to admit, however, that the Protestant relationship to
Oswald (As well as James Olmstead's posts on Laredo) so far eludes me.
You have (both) laid it out for me to connect the dots and yet I'm not
seeing it. I have always dismissed Oswald's activities in NY as
relatively unimportant. Now, of course, you and James are offering new
pieces to this puzzle but - damned if I can make them fit! If Oz is a
rightwinger posing as a leftwinger, then he is a better actor than John
Wilks Booth ever dreamed of being.
Just my thoughts.
::Clark::
Magic Bullet
Clark Wilkins <clwi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:s3cr7.43864$em7.244...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I am very impressed with your research here.
Thanks, Clark.
Although I feel comfortable> with my deductions for Oswald's
activities in 1962-63 I have to admit> there are discrepancies
between the "1959" Lee Harvey Oswald and the> "1963" LHO. Up
until your posts, I had accepted LHO in the same light as> the
LNer's view him - a leftwinger disappointed with America's
treatment> of his mother.
Those things aren't necessarily false. Though I have doubts that
Oz was a true leftwinger, I do believe he thought he was. He
wasn't the only one using political labels incorrectly, but
probably sincerely.
Hell, our major (and currently governing) conservative party is
called the Liberal Party.
While this may be true, Oz's Albert Schweitzer application> flies
in the face of his being unaided and acting alone in 1959.
That is certainly how I see it.
While,> quite obviously, his 1959 actions are unrelated to those
of 1963,
Not necessarily. But I guess it depends if you have him pulling
the trigger in '63.
his> being assisted in 1959 raises questons about his having
acted alone in> 1963 (Of course, he can be assisted in 1959 and
still act "alone" in> 1963).
True. But I see evidence of the same guiding hands in '63. Even
then, although it vastly increases the chances of conspiracy, it
doesn't absolutely rule out that he acted alone.
>I have to admit, however, that the Protestant relationship to>
Oswald (As well as James Olmstead's posts on Laredo) so far
eludes me.
I can only report that the things Oz wrote on his application,
and the coincidences of timing in NYC, along with a number of
other connections and leads, indicate to me that those church
charities fed Lee's files to either the SISS or the SSJD, OR that
investigators for one of those committees came across his file as
part of their routine investigations... decided he was a good
prospect... and passed him over to a series of "handlers" or
whatever terminology you want to use. He goes from Protestant Big
Bros, Protestant Welfare and YMCA to eventually linking up with
all those other people heavily involved in one branch or another
of the Protestants. If you want a link between the Protestants
and the subcommittees... that's easy. Morris.
You will need to get Jim to explain Laredo. I think I jumped to a
wrong conclusion previously with it. Comes with not having the
volumes... my problem.... I could get them over the web, I
imagine, but currency exchange rates make it prohibitive.
> You have (both) laid it out for me to connect the dots and yet
I'm not> seeing it.
You of all people should know how to look outside the square.
I have always dismissed Oswald's activities in NY as> relatively
unimportant. Now, of course, you and James are offering new>
pieces to this puzzle but - damned if I can make them fit! If Oz
is a> rightwinger posing as a leftwinger, then he is a better
actor than John> Wilks Booth ever dreamed of being.
I didn't say that Oz was a right-winger. In fact, I have had
lengthy debates offline with someone who sees Lee in that light
(are you out there, J? Hope you're ok)
This plot was kept aloft with more than the requisite number of
wings.
greg
> Just my thoughts.
>
>
> ::Clark::
>
>
James K. Olmstead
do "overlap"
Greg: I know you will respond to Clark, so I will kill two birds here, since
I can't really help
you but somebody in Texas might be able to. In testimony before a
subcommitte chaired by
Sam Ervin, Curtis M. Graves, a Texas state legislator, charged that the Army
unit in Houston
kep a card on each member of the San Antonio Unitarian Church. The
subcommitte was
one on Constitional Rights....I do not have that material handy as of yet.
Other areas to look at include Assistant Attorney General William H.
Rehnquist and HEW
Secretary Elliot Richardson, both supported the gathering of information on
individuals such
as the church members in San Antonio.
I finally managed to pull those Life mags out of the bottom shelf, behind
the large file cabinet
in my office......boy you should see the dust.
Got to go to "baby shower"......I'm counting the days.
jko
"Clark Wilkins" <clwi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:s3cr7.43864$em7.244...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
>
John McAdams
OK, but what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
>____________________________________________________
>
>From Oswald's Albert Schweitzer Lollege application:
>
>Special interests: philosophy, PSYCHOLOGY, idealogy.
>Favourite authors or books:
>Jack London DARWIN, Norman V Peale, SCIENTIFIC (sic)
>books, philosophy ect...
>_____________________________________________________
>
Oswald was an atheist. You were aware of that, right?
>And who was it Lee Harvey Oswald was referred to by the
>New York Court system? The PROTESTANT Big Brothers
>and The Federation of PROTESTANT WELFARE AGENCIES.
>
>And who did Oswald associate with? Failed Catholic and
>pseudo-PROTESTANT Old Catholic- David Ferrie;
>PROTESTANT Quaker - Ruth Paine, PROTESTANT
>Unitarian - Michael Paine; PROTESTANT Russian Orthodox
>White Russians, and PROTESTANT Quaker and US
>EUGENICS Society geneticist - Dr K.
>______________________________________________________
>
>And what were these PROTESTANT churches up to in NYC
>during the 'fifties?
>
>Well, this, according to articles by Edward Kent, a member of the
>ACLU, and prolific author of web articles on social issues:
>
>Many years ago I had a student summer job that entailed among
>other things updating the directory for the Protestant Council of
>Churches of the City of New York. I had taken on this job
>because at the time the National Council of Churches housed
>in the same building (the Protestant 'Vatican' at 475 Riverside
>Drive in Upper Manhattan) had been a leading force in the then
>civil rights efforts being launched by Martin Luther King, Jr.
>and others. I thought that the PROTESTANT Council would be
>the local equivalent. How wrong I was!
>
Perhaps you need to explain what the "Protestant Council of Churches"
was. The National Council of Churches contained all the "mainstream"
Protestant denominations.
Assuming all this is true -- and I'm frankly dubious -- what does it
have to do with the JFK assassination?
Those two stories sound to be inconsistent.
>He had
>given my name as his referring adult to the draft board. I
>subsequently learned that he was one of the all but 3 of this
>particular little gang who had died violent deaths -- I do not
>know the particulars of his.
>_____________________________________________________
>
>Hmmm... this could explain why Oswald was not given the
>"treatment" that some of his NYC reports indicate he needed...
>placement in a mental hospital or similar would have meant
>he could not get into the military.... at least apparently not in
>those pre-draft days...
>______________________________________________________
Let me see if I understand you. The Evil Minions of The Conspiracy
knew, even when Oswald was in Youth House, that he was destined to go
into the military as part of some intelligence op, and therefore he
could not be given psychological counseling?
>
>I no longer have too many doubts about it: Oswald was under
>the influence of members of these mostly fraudulant and fruity
>churches...
Then why wasn't this "influence" known to any of the people who knew
Oswald well and testified to the WC?
Just what denominations *were* part of this "fraudulant and fruity"
group? You've listed two that weren't, but who *was?*
>and though not shown here... those people had
>connections to the SISS and the SSJD... all the clues are there
>in Oswald's NYC records and in his Albert Schweitzer
>College application. Other information from Dallas and NO
>is just icing on the same cake, as is the possible Albert
>Osborne and Quaker links in Mexico City.
>
OK, so Protestants killed Kennedy, right?
Are you aware that about 55% of all Americans are Protestants? That
really narrows it down, don't you think?
Poor LHO had to list some books and interests on his college
application, and he mentioned "psychology" and Norman Vincent Peale,
and you have built a whole conspiracy theory on it.
.John
--
Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Magic Bullet
James K. Olmstead <Thp...@onecom.com> wrote in message
news:3bad...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> Clark: As I indicated in the past Greg's work is seperate from
mine but they> do "overlap"
>
> Greg: I know you will respond to Clark, so I will kill two
birds here, since> I can't really help> you but somebody in Texas
might be able to. In testimony before a> subcommitte chaired by>
Sam Ervin, Curtis M. Graves, a Texas state legislator, charged
that the Army> unit in Houston
> kep a card on each member of the San Antonio Unitarian Church.
The
> subcommitte was> one on Constitional Rights....I do not have
that material handy as of yet.
Jim, you HAVE helped. And the leads you give above help.
> Other areas to look at include Assistant Attorney General
William H.
> Rehnquist and HEW> Secretary Elliot Richardson, both supported
the gathering of information on> individuals such> as the church
members in San Antonio.
Not to mention these ones...
> I finally managed to pull those Life mags out of the bottom
shelf, behind
> the large file cabinet> in my office......boy you should see
the dust.
LOL. Had a similar experience over the weekend. But it's not a
pretty story... one of the joys of the tropics... nasty things
breed in unual places the minute you drop your guard....
> Got to go to "baby shower"......I'm counting the days.
I thought baby showers were "secret women's business"?
Hope all goes well.
greg
James K. Olmstead
able to hit the research library again....most of my work deals with
material pre 1968 so I don't have alot of material or facts on the Erwin
committee.....I think it was in 1970. But I will get and email you a
"summary" of the hearings. The work however deals with actions that
started with the Port Huron Statement of the SDS in 1962 and covers the
1962-1970 period.
According to one source Lee was not atheist as much as he was "
agnotistic" feeling that God was not a great "communicator". How true
that is I can not say but I believe that any "Marxist" has to study
religion as part of the process of formation of opinion.
As to the "profiles" of Lee submitted to "others" from the NYC
period.....two individuals connected to Lee in some manner, Morris and
Ferrie would have interest as to the "profile" Lee fit even if he was NOT
KNOWN as a "individual profile" but part of a major study being conducted
during this period.. Without doubt Morris, due to his position
investigating the communist influence in NYC, during the time period Lee
was there, would be interested in the "profile" because it was one that
fit his "other" interests in the ONI as a Reserve Officer.
The profile fit the prime profile of military members that "defected"
during the Korean War. Ferrie working with "kids" and being in the USAR
during that period would also be interested in the "profile" as he was
working with CAP cadets....which Lee was a member.
Material has to be worked into the known history, not issolated , because
one has not taken the time to examine the social and political enviroment
of the period. These consideration have not been interjected into the
known actions of Lee and those around him......but they should have been
in presenting the "proper" profile of Lee.
The shower went great.....I made a video of the event and although short
it was good stuff. To keep the men occupied we had two tv's with football
and washtubs of beer, motorcycles and 4 wheelers with plenty of food. We
are after all a "civilized" nation....and men do still have
"rights".....my little girl knows to protect those rights.
BTW I went yesterday to sign back up....but base was closed....I have to
take care of some paperwork to get back on base to get back in.....If they
want this old fart.
jko
"Magic Bullet" <magic...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
news:3bae...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Magic Bullet
John McAdams <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:3bae714c...@news.alt.net...
Nothing directly. Galton was dead at the time.
____________________________________________________
> >
> >From Oswald's Albert Schweitzer Lollege application:
> >
> >Special interests: philosophy, PSYCHOLOGY, idealogy.
> >Favourite authors or books:
> >Jack London DARWIN, Norman V Peale, SCIENTIFIC (sic)
> >books, philosophy ect...
> >_____________________________________________________
> >
>
> Oswald was an atheist. You were aware of that, right?
Did he ever say that, or are you assuming it because he claimed
he was a Marxist? Quakers and Unitarians were among Norman
Thomas' biggest supporters.
And maybe you could explain his choice of Albert Schweitzer
College - which was run along CHRISTIAN principles by the oldest
interfaith org in existence - the IARF... which was started by
the Unitarians. Oswald gave too much information on his
application not to have been aware of who ran the college.
It was exactly what the name suggests.
Except of course, that it was a front for the far right. The
"mainstream" protestant groups were aware of it but stayed a part
of it anyway, and kept quiet about what they knew.
I'd have been frankly amazed if you didn't find it "dubious". It
has to do with Oswald. And it has to do with that part of YOUR
history... which forms a backdrop for the assassination.
How so? He confirms what is in LHO's court records... The
Protestant Welfare Agencies wouldn't take his case... which shows
their agencies were inadequate.
> >He had
> >given my name as his referring adult to the draft board. I
> >subsequently learned that he was one of the all but 3 of this
> >particular little gang who had died violent deaths -- I do not
> >know the particulars of his.
> >_____________________________________________________
> >
> >Hmmm... this could explain why Oswald was not given the
> >"treatment" that some of his NYC reports indicate he needed...
> >placement in a mental hospital or similar would have meant
> >he could not get into the military.... at least apparently not in
> >those pre-draft days...
> >______________________________________________________
>
>
> Let me see if I understand you. The Evil Minions of The Conspiracy
> knew, even when Oswald was in Youth House, that he was destined to go
> into the military as part of some intelligence op, and therefore he
> could not be given psychological counseling?
I put his coming into contact with his minders during late
November, 1953 AFTER his stay in YH.
Within 2 months of that, he was in NO and in '55 joined the CAP.
Some believe it was Ferrie who encouraged him to join the
Marines. Ferrie was known to encourage boys into military service
and someone apparently did visit Marguerite, and assist with his
first failed attempt.
And it was not me who came up with all the theories and
supporting evidence suggesting he was involved in some way with
"intelligence" in the Marines. It just happens to fit with what I
have.
> >I no longer have too many doubts about it: Oswald was under
> >the influence of members of these mostly fraudulant and fruity
> >churches...
>
>
> Then why wasn't this "influence" known to any of the people who knew
> Oswald well and testified to the WC?
Gee, John... because some who testified were some of those
directly or indirectly involved in his "handling"?
You don't have to plead the 5th, or worry about lying when you're
not subject to cross-examination.
Moreover, they could only answer the questions that were asked.
And by whatever god you believe in... the questions NOT aked that
should have been is mind-boggling.
> Just what denominations *were* part of this "fraudulant and fruity"
> group? You've listed two that weren't, but who *was?*
They all are, in some way or other. Just a matter of degree.
> >and though not shown here... those people had
> >connections to the SISS and the SSJD... all the clues are there
> >in Oswald's NYC records and in his Albert Schweitzer
> >College application. Other information from Dallas and NO
> >is just icing on the same cake, as is the possible Albert
> >Osborne and Quaker links in Mexico City.
> >
>
> OK, so Protestants killed Kennedy, right?
I don't know. Religion was just the thing that provides the
connections. I have to say, though... I doubt it was Catholics...
or a lone athiest. Religion really isn't the issue. Though I have
no time for any of them, some are at least benign.
But look, John... those using religion as a scam included Ferrie,
Osborne, Peale, Sturgis, Brading and god knows how many others.
And Religious scams WERE being investigated during the 50's and
60's. And the reason was simple. They were in plague proportions
and being used for everything from ripping off pension money from
little old ladies to being used just to claim tax exeption
status. That is why so many "interfaith" groups sprang up to
defend "religious freedom"... to fight off those types of
investigations.
> Are you aware that about 55% of all Americans are Protestants? That
> really narrows it down, don't you think?
I have it narrowed down more than that. But I think if you really
were interested, you could use your vast resources to help me
narrow it down even further.
> Poor LHO had to list some books and interests on his college
> application, and he mentioned "psychology" and Norman Vincent
Peale,> and you have built a whole conspiracy theory on it.
Ah, shucks, John. You flatter me. It really is built on quite a
bit more than that... I just wouldn't have the talent to come up
with this stuff on as little as you give me credit for. But
thanks, anyhow...
greg
Magic Bullet
> Greg: Glad that little bit was of interest.....next weekend I
should be
> able to hit the research library again....most of my work deals
with
> material pre 1968 so I don't have alot of material or facts on
the Erwin
> committee.....I think it was in 1970. But I will get and email
you a
> "summary" of the hearings. The work however deals with actions
that
> started with the Port Huron Statement of the SDS in 1962 and
covers the> 1962-1970 period.
Just did a quck check on google on the erwin committee. About 6
sites cane up. Without looking too deeply at the moment... it
looks like they all deal with Watergate. That gets my attention
right there. I'll look at them in more depth tonight. Anything
else you can contribute (especially dealing with the 62/63
period) would be fantastic.
> According to one source Lee was not atheist as much as he was "
> agnotistic" feeling that God was not a great "communicator".
How true
> that is I can not say but I believe that any "Marxist" has to
study
> religion as part of the process of formation of opinion.
I agree, Jim. Even Darwin was a Unitarian.
> As to the "profiles" of Lee submitted to "others" from the NYC
> period.....two individuals connected to Lee in some manner,
Morris and
> Ferrie would have interest as to the "profile" Lee fit even if
he was NOT
> KNOWN as a "individual profile" but part of a major study being
conducted> during this period.. Without doubt Morris, due to his
position> investigating the communist influence in NYC, during
the time period Lee> was there, would be interested in the
"profile" because it was one that> fit his "other" interests in
the ONI as a Reserve Officer.
Have you got access to my computer files? A few days ago I
submitted an expanded article on all these issues to an
assassination website. You have basically just given an overview
of part of it.
> The profile fit the prime profile of military members that
"defected"
> during the Korean War. Ferrie working with "kids" and being in
the USAR> during that period would also be interested in the
"profile" as he was> working with CAP cadets....which Lee was a
member.
Yep. Although I didn't go into great detail on it... again... I
made those basic points. Maybe not as well or as clearly,
though... I might have to "borrow" some your post... <just
kidding... sort of...<g>
> Material has to be worked into the known history, not issolated
, because> one has not taken the time to examine the social and
political enviroment> of the period. These consideration have not
been interjected into the> known actions of Lee and those around
him......but they should have been> in presenting the "proper"
profile of Lee.
>
> The shower went great.....I made a video of the event and
although short> it was good stuff. To keep the men occupied we
had two tv's with football> and washtubs of beer, motorcycles and
4 wheelers with plenty of food. We> are after all a "civilized"
nation....and men do still have
> "rights".....my little girl knows to protect those rights.
That makes better sense now.
> BTW I went yesterday to sign back up....but base was
closed....I have to> take care of some paperwork to get back on
base to get back in.....If they> want this old fart.
They'd be fools not to. I hope they are fools. Defense of one's
country is a noble calling... but you've done your bit. Your
expertise in needed elsewhere. The forces can find others who
could contribute to your level. That is not the case with JFK
research. You'd be leaving a huge hole...
just my 2 cents worth... and I'll stop before I put my foot in my
keyboard (again).
greg
Clark Wilkins
>
> Clark Wilkins <clwi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:s3cr7.43864$em7.244...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > I am very impressed with your research here.
>
> Thanks, Clark.
>
> Although I feel comfortable> with my deductions for Oswald's
> activities in 1962-63 I have to admit> there are discrepancies
> between the "1959" Lee Harvey Oswald and the> "1963" LHO. Up
> until your posts, I had accepted LHO in the same light as> the
> LNer's view him - a leftwinger disappointed with America's
> treatment> of his mother.
>
> Those things aren't necessarily false. Though I have doubts that
> Oz was a true leftwinger, I do believe he thought he was. He
> wasn't the only one using political labels incorrectly, but
> probably sincerely.
Okay. I can agree with this. Oz probably wasn't an expert on Karl Marx
and/or communism, but he sincerely wanted to be.
>
> Hell, our major (and currently governing) conservative party is
> called the Liberal Party.
>
> While this may be true, Oz's Albert Schweitzer application> flies
> in the face of his being unaided and acting alone in 1959.
>
> That is certainly how I see it.
>
> While,> quite obviously, his 1959 actions are unrelated to those
> of 1963,
>
> Not necessarily. But I guess it depends if you have him pulling
> the trigger in '63.
Yes.
And I'm one of those people who have him pulling the trigger. However, my
point is that Oswald's planned defection to the USSR (And which I believe
was sincere) in 1959 should be completely unrelated to 11/22/63. Or, at
least, from his perspective.
>
> his> being assisted in 1959 raises questons about his having
> acted alone in> 1963 (Of course, he can be assisted in 1959 and
> still act "alone" in> 1963).
>
> True. But I see evidence of the same guiding hands in '63. Even
> then, although it vastly increases the chances of conspiracy, it
> doesn't absolutely rule out that he acted alone.
Yes. It is very hard not to see the fingerprints of both Dodd and Morris
on Oswald in 1963. What I don't see are the fingerprints of either Dodd
or Morris on Oswald in 1959.
Instead, I see the fingerprints of someone who knew that the Albert
Scheitzer school existed, was familiar with travel restrictions on
Reservists, understood the politics behind the university, knew Oswald,
knew he wanted to go to Europe (And possibly the USSR), and was willing to
help him.
I have no name to attach to this person nor any evidence he existed. And,
if he did exist, I have no reason to believe he was still in contact with
Oswald in 1963.
>
> >I have to admit, however, that the Protestant relationship to>
> Oswald (As well as James Olmstead's posts on Laredo) so far
> eludes me.
>
> I can only report that the things Oz wrote on his application,
> and the coincidences of timing in NYC, along with a number of
> other connections and leads, indicate to me that those church
> charities fed Lee's files to either the SISS or the SSJD,
I can see them providing the info to the SSJD. I can hardly see them
turning over the file of a - what? - thirteen year old to the SISS. I
rather doubt that Oz was considered a "security risk" to the country at
that age. However, it is possible that the SSJD sent Oz's files on over to
SISS. If the SISS was looking for communist schoolteachers, they may have
wanted to question Oz on the source of his beliefs.
The church charity - have you connected that to the supporters of Albert
Schweitzer College?
> OR that
> investigators for one of those committees came across his file as
> part of their routine investigations... decided he was a good
> prospect...
Let's consider what he was a good prospect for. Not an agent. The kid
wants to drop out of school. Not as an investigator. He can't write a
report. As a dropout, he can't even spy on "communist school teachers"
for Morris. He's not much help to Dodd's committee. He never ordered any
weapons as a minor. So? What's left? There's John B's solution; that he
was picked as a good prospect for a Manchurian Candidate. Morris seems to
be a principal in that research and Oswald's Youth House reports describe
his fantasies of "hurting people". I can't think of anything else.
> and passed him over to a series of "handlers" or
> whatever terminology you want to use. He goes from Protestant Big
> Bros, Protestant Welfare and YMCA to eventually linking up with
> all those other people heavily involved in one branch or another
> of the Protestants. If you want a link between the Protestants
> and the subcommittees... that's easy. Morris.
A name that frequently comes up.
>
> You will need to get Jim to explain Laredo. I think I jumped to a
> wrong conclusion previously with it. Comes with not having the
> volumes... my problem.... I could get them over the web, I
> imagine, but currency exchange rates make it prohibitive.
>
> > You have (both) laid it out for me to connect the dots and yet
> I'm not> seeing it.
>
> You of all people should know how to look outside the square.
But all I see is a lot of empty space.
>
> I have always dismissed Oswald's activities in NY as> relatively
> unimportant. Now, of course, you and James are offering new>
> pieces to this puzzle but - damned if I can make them fit! If Oz
> is a> rightwinger posing as a leftwinger, then he is a better
> actor than John> Wilks Booth ever dreamed of being.
>
> I didn't say that Oz was a right-winger. In fact, I have had
> lengthy debates offline with someone who sees Lee in that light
> (are you out there, J? Hope you're ok)
>
> This plot was kept aloft with more than the requisite number of
> wings.
Yes. I believe Oz was a genuine leftwinger (Or, at least, he believed he
was a genuine leftwinger).
Just a thought.
::Clark::
Clark Wilkins
>
> As to the "profiles" of Lee submitted to "others" from the NYC
> period.....two individuals connected to Lee in some manner, Morris and
> Ferrie would have interest as to the "profile" Lee fit even if he was NOT
> KNOWN as a "individual profile" but part of a major study being conducted
> during this period.. Without doubt Morris, due to his position
> investigating the communist influence in NYC, during the time period Lee
> was there, would be interested in the "profile" because it was one that
> fit his "other" interests in the ONI as a Reserve Officer.
Can you refresh my memory on this?
>
> The profile fit the prime profile of military members that "defected"
> during the Korean War.
And on this?
Thanx,
::Clark::
James K. Olmstead
material, feel free to use it anyway you want. I've posted on it over a
10 year period and your the one that seems to be "really" interested
enough to look on your own. My prime source was a book called "Why They
Collaborated" by Eugene Kinkead, written in 1959. The Cleveland, Ohio
USAR MI units were involved in these studies and evaluation, Ferrie being
in the USAR during this time period in Ohio and his exact "assignment" has
never been disclosed.....I'm still hoping David B will come up with that
info in the near future. Beside his USAR connection during that time
period he was working for a "insurance" company, one that also seems to be
tucked away from examination.
I will look forward to the article, please keep me informed.
James K. Olmstead
generated in NYC was one that was "false". Key factors of Lee's life were
withheld from Dr. Hartog and the social workers. Mainly his time with his
"step father". Both Lee and his mother witheld information on that
marriage and relationship. Therefore the "profile" of Lee, accepted by
many is one that is based on "incomplete" data. Therefore regardless of
how much you or others want to "accept" the profile of the "Troubled
Youth".....the profile is based on information that does not hold up to
examination.
Now when you consider the purpose behind the time in the Youth House you
would "expect" the results to be placed in his "school" records.....check
out CE 1183 (? might be CE 1184) (his NYC school records) and in the
sections DEVOTED to psy profiles you will find
NOTHING...NANA.....ZIP.....the sections for key evaluations on the pages
are blank.
Now taking into consideration that the "profile" presented on Lee by Dr.
Hertog in his "report" ..not presented to the WC...but mentioned in his
testimony...that he is presenting "false"....or at least "incomplete"
evaluation of Lee, you have a problem if anyone "takes and interest" in
Lee. That report went up the "chain" so to speak.
Now who would need information on 13 year olds. The Army was tasked during
the Korean War to evaluate the POW problem of troops that "collaborated"
or "defected". They weere selected because of the 4,000 plus cases most
were Army. Between 1953 and 1956 the study was completed and a "profile"
of possible future "defectors" was established. They found that those
between 13-17 years of age needed to be "inspired" in a manner that would
"prevent" them from "defecting". Morris was deeply involved in this aspect
connected to the Navy....and Marine Corps......since he was the leading
EXPERT on subversion of Americans youth by the CP. Especially those
dealing with NYC reports on "profiles". It was his job to be
interested.....actually "two jobs".
Organizations such as the Boy Scouts and the CAP were used to "inspire"
those youths. Lee was not a scout but he was in the CAP and quess what so
was DWF.
Add to the mix the interest on JD's by Dodd and OTHERS you have grounds to
look deeper into the actions during that time period, which WERE NOT
examined.
When you add the false and illegal enlistment and seperation of
Oswald.....to the "DEFECTION" of Lee, you have even greater grounds for
looking deeper.
When you toss in his actions upon his return, including his trip to Mexico
prior to November.....there is even greater grounds for concerns.
Now toss in his actions in November including those on 22 November and
there are hundreds of areas that need to be examined.....BUT WERE NOT.
As long as these areas are not fully examined by parites on both
"sides"....there will never be a valid understanding of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Greg is looking into the social work aspects and he is doing a good job in
that area....I look into the military aspects because of my
background.....therefore there is "overlap" in our research although we
are taking seperate paths to Dallas.
jko
"Clark Wilkins" <clwi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:a6Or7.10987$RZ7.150...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Magic Bullet
>
> "Magic Bullet" <magic...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
> news:3bad...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> >
> > Clark Wilkins <clwi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > news:s3cr7.43864$em7.244...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > I am very impressed with your research here.
> >
> > Thanks, Clark.
> >
> > Although I feel comfortable> with my deductions for Oswald's
> > activities in 1962-63 I have to admit> there are
discrepancies
> > between the "1959" Lee Harvey Oswald and the> "1963" LHO. Up
> > until your posts, I had accepted LHO in the same light as>
the
> > LNer's view him - a leftwinger disappointed with America's
> > treatment> of his mother.
> >
> > Those things aren't necessarily false. Though I have doubts
that
> > Oz was a true leftwinger, I do believe he thought he was. He
> > wasn't the only one using political labels incorrectly, but
> > probably sincerely.
>
>
> Okay. I can agree with this. Oz probably wasn't an expert on
Karl Marx> and/or communism, but he sincerely wanted to be.
Yeah... that's kind of what I meant. Sort of. I don't think the
problem was one of not understanding Marxism, but rather a
problem of temperament and personality. I think by nature, he was
more of a libertarian. I think that is reflected in his own
political system. I also think it applies to a lot of others who
claimed to be liberal...
> > Hell, our major (and currently governing) conservative party
is
> > called the Liberal Party.
> >
> > While this may be true, Oz's Albert Schweitzer application>
flies
> > in the face of his being unaided and acting alone in 1959.
> >
> > That is certainly how I see it.
> >
> > While,> quite obviously, his 1959 actions are unrelated to
those
> > of 1963,
> >
> > Not necessarily. But I guess it depends if you have him
pulling
> > the trigger in '63.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> And I'm one of those people who have him pulling the trigger.
However, my> point is that Oswald's planned defection to the USSR
(And which I believe> was sincere) in 1959
It may well have been sincere. I wouldn't necessarily rule it
out. But that does not mean he wasn't also performing a task, or
a role or whatever, on behalf of whomever. I honestly believe he
was being guided from late Nov '53 through to the assassination.
I didn't pluck this out of the air. It is one "option" suggested
by the evidence I have come across. There are other options, but
it's a bit like Who Wants to be a Millionaire... when it gets up
to the big money, I pick the right answer 99% of the time... not
because I always know it, but when faced with several options, my
instinct on picking the right one is pretty damn good.
should be completely unrelated to 11/22/63. Or, at> least, from
his perspective.
It's only "unrelated" insofar as it would be ridiculous to
suggest anyone was planning in '53 or '59 to kill JFK in '63.
> > his> being assisted in 1959 raises questons about his having
> > acted alone in> 1963 (Of course, he can be assisted in 1959
and
> > still act "alone" in> 1963).
> >
> > True. But I see evidence of the same guiding hands in '63.
Even
> > then, although it vastly increases the chances of conspiracy,
it
> > doesn't absolutely rule out that he acted alone.
>
>
> Yes. It is very hard not to see the fingerprints of both Dodd
and Morris
> on Oswald in 1963. What I don't see are the fingerprints of
either Dodd> or Morris on Oswald in 1959.
Different people at different stages.
> Instead, I see the fingerprints of someone who knew that the
Albert
> Scheitzer school existed, was familiar with travel restrictions
on
> Reservists, understood the politics behind the university, knew
Oswald,
> knew he wanted to go to Europe (And possibly the USSR), and was
willing to> help him.
Maybe Ferrie. He may have been the one to encourage him into the
Marines in the first place. Lee went back to NO to make his
travel arrangements. Ferrie knew about at least one other
European University, and I think may have actually been to Europe
at some stage.
> I have no name to attach to this person nor any evidence he
existed. And,> if he did exist, I have no reason to believe he
was still in contact with> Oswald in 1963.
See above. It was never one person. Probably not even one group.
Where you aware that Larrie Schmidt arrived in Dallas from
Germany around the time Lee arrived in FW from Russia?
> > >I have to admit, however, that the Protestant relationship
to>
> > Oswald (As well as James Olmstead's posts on Laredo) so far
> > eludes me.
> >
> > I can only report that the things Oz wrote on his
application,
> > and the coincidences of timing in NYC, along with a number of
> > other connections and leads, indicate to me that those church
> > charities fed Lee's files to either the SISS or the SSJD,
>
> I can see them providing the info to the SSJD. I can hardly see
them
> turning over the file of a - what? - thirteen year old to the
SISS. I
> rather doubt that Oz was considered a "security risk" to the
country at
> that age. However, it is possible that the SSJD sent Oz's files
on over to
> SISS. If the SISS was looking for communist schoolteachers,
they may have> wanted to question Oz on the source of his
beliefs.
Jim has answered that far better than I could.
> The church charity - have you connected that to the supporters
of Albert> Schweitzer College?
Not directly. Only that it was a Protestant charity... the ASC
was run by an interfaith group started by and dominated by
protestants. Highly likely whatever Protestant Church you name is
a member of the IARF....
> > OR that
> > investigators for one of those committees came across his
file as
> > part of their routine investigations... decided he was a good
> > prospect...
>
> Let's consider what he was a good prospect for. Not an agent.
The kid
> wants to drop out of school. Not as an investigator. He can't
write a
> report. As a dropout, he can't even spy on "communist school
teachers"> for Morris. He's not much help to Dodd's committee.
He never ordered any> weapons as a minor. So?
Again, Jim seems to have covered this. The only thing I could add
is that Dodd wasn't involved in the JD committee until '63, and
weapons were not the issue in 53/54.
What's left? There's John B's solution; that he
> was picked as a good prospect for a Manchurian Candidate.
Morris seems to> be a principal in that research and Oswald's
Youth House reports describe> his fantasies of "hurting people".
I can't think of anything else.
I don't rule out some type "persuasion" along those lines. The
issue of "brainwashing", though, conjures up images of drugs,
electrodes, hypnosis. Brainwashing though, can be as simple as
talking someone into believing something they wouldn't otherwise
believe, or in to doing something they may not have considered
doing otherwise. Depends on susceptibility and a range of other
factors as to how "deep" you have to burrow into someone's
psyche.
Ferrie and one other, however, were both able to use hypnosis -
and both had the opportunity to use it on Lee. Moreover, I'd
suggest it's also possible Oswald was being drugged, or using
drugs voluntarily. Needle marks in both arms in autopsy report...
suppressed appetite... occasional irritibility... occosaional
inability to "connect" with others... all possible signs of drug
use.
The use of "brainwashing" by hypnosis and/or drugs however, is
something I would not support without more solid evidence.
Ruby - yes. I do believe he was drugged and hypnotised as part of
his "persuasion" to kill Lee. That probably makes me unique...
but there ya go.
> > and passed him over to a series of "handlers" or
> > whatever terminology you want to use. He goes from Protestant
Big
> > Bros, Protestant Welfare and YMCA to eventually linking up
with
> > all those other people heavily involved in one branch or
another
> > of the Protestants. If you want a link between the
Protestants
> > and the subcommittees... that's easy. Morris.
>
>
> A name that frequently comes up.
Yep. Wonder why?
> > You will need to get Jim to explain Laredo. I think I jumped
to a
> > wrong conclusion previously with it. Comes with not having
the
> > volumes... my problem.... I could get them over the web, I
> > imagine, but currency exchange rates make it prohibitive.
> >
> > > You have (both) laid it out for me to connect the dots and
yet
> > I'm not> seeing it.
> >
> > You of all people should know how to look outside the square.
>
>
> But all I see is a lot of empty space.
Then close your eyes.
> > I have always dismissed Oswald's activities in NY as>
relatively
> > unimportant. Now, of course, you and James are offering new>
> > pieces to this puzzle but - damned if I can make them fit!
If Oz
> > is a> rightwinger posing as a leftwinger, then he is a better
> > actor than John> Wilks Booth ever dreamed of being.
> >
> > I didn't say that Oz was a right-winger. In fact, I have had
> > lengthy debates offline with someone who sees Lee in that
light
> > (are you out there, J? Hope you're ok)
> >
> > This plot was kept aloft with more than the requisite number
of
> > wings.
>
>
>
> Yes. I believe Oz was a genuine leftwinger (Or, at least, he
believed he
> was a genuine leftwinger).
What I meant was that there was a third force, neither left nor
right, but willing and able to use both.
--
"Major, the big brass are going to yell their heads off about
this,
and the Japanese aren't going to like it much either.
Have you got anything to say to them, sir?"
reporter to Marlon Brando from the movie "Sayonara"
Oz and the guiding hands
www.leftcoast-art.ca/magicbullet
greg
> Just a thought.
>
>
>
> ::Clark::
Magic Bullet
Three computer archives were maintained, Alexandria, Va, Fort
Hood
Texas, and Ft. Monroe, Va. There was a intelligence unit in
Houston
that Curtis M. Graves a Texas state legislator charged had a file
on
every member of the San Antonio Unitarian Church.
Does anyone know if there was also any offical interest in the
First Unitarian Church in Dallas, and the associate pastor
Rev. Byrd Helligas? Any information would be of value, thanks in
advance....jko
From Mark Lanes' Lawyer's Brief:
Nevertheless, those who knew Oswald a little better had some
rather kind things to say about him. At a trial, their testimony
could have been decisive. The associate pastor of First Unitarian
Church, Dallas, Rev. Byrd Helligas, described Lee Oswald as
"erudite." "He had a good vocabulary. No dangling participles or
split infinitives. In the dictionary definition of the word
'intellectual' he was an intellectual." Helligas added that he
sensed "no frustration through erudition. He was calm."
(Washington Post, Dec. 1).
So how did Helligas - a Unitarian Pastor - meet Oswald? At the
ACLU meeting, or at the church? Either way, MP has to be the
link.
I've checked the index of Rush to Judgement... Helligas isn't
listed.
--
"Major, the big brass are going to yell their heads off about
this,
and the Japanese aren't going to like it much either.
Have you got anything to say to them, sir?"
reporter to Marlon Brando from the movie "Sayonara"
Oz and the guiding hands
www.leftcoast-art.ca/magicbullet
greg
James K. Olmstead <Thp...@onecom.com> wrote in message
news:3bad...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Clark Wilkins
As a CTer I have to agree. I would also have to add that I suspect/know
that the guiding hands on Oswald are rightwing. This has always created a
conflict for resolution. Why would Oz, who is not a right winger, align
himself with the guiding hands of the right? We know, for example, that he
objected to the guiding hands of the White Russian community in assisting
him and Marina. Or why, if Oz is taking direction from the right wing, is
he taking a shot at Walker as the evidence suggests? These are problem
areas that need addressing by those who wish to get my attention.
We can also reverse the situation and ask ourselves why the rightwing
would want to aid Oswald, of the leftwing, to do anything other than to
accidentally step in front of an oncoming bus? Yet every time Oswald needs
assistance, someone on the right, who admits to actually disliking Oswald,
is there to help out. Again, researchers on both sides of the issue, be
they CT or LN, need to address this.
And while I'm sure the LN argument would be that the White Russian
community was helping Marina and not Lee, that does not explain why Oswald
continously escaped gov't perusal. For example, the US Gov't went to the
trouble of changing LHO's discharge status from the Marines which clearly
shows unhappiness with his defection. Yet when he returned to the US and
the opportunity was presented to press charges against him (As he himself
feared), nothing happened. While there is no requirement that "something
happen", one would at least expect the possibility to be discussed. There
are no memos to this effect. For the US Gov't to work so hard to get accused
defector Oswald back (Pulling strings at the INS and giving him a loan) and
then doing nothing once we obtained him, is rather like us branding Osami
bin Laden a terrorist (as we labeled Oswald a defector and whop was
suspected bymany of having provided the Russians with info on the U-2 which
brought down Francis Gary Powers), arranging for his return from Afghanistan
(As we arranged Oz's return from the USSR), giving bin Laden a loan for the
trip (As we did with Oz), and then telling bin Laden he was free to go once
he got here and, btw, would you like to have a job in our defense industry?
So the US gov't failed to take action on Oswald in 1962. It failed
again, twice, in 1963. The first occurred with Oswald's radio debate in NO.
Here, an FPCC chapter secretary admitted, on public radio, to being a
Marxist and to having lived in the USSR. we know the HUAC knew about this
debate since they provided Ed Butler with their files on Oswald, federal
expressing them to him so that he could have them in time for the radio
show. This radio show provided the HUAC to subpoena Oswald to testify
before them concerning communist influence over the FPCC. It didn't happen.
Why not? We also know that in October, 1963 the CIA notified several
agencies that Lee Oswald had called upon the SOVEMB in Mexico City. Amongst
those agencies notified were the FBI and State. By Nov 1 the FBI had
located Oswald in Dallas. Yet no action was taken or even contemplated
against Oswald. State did not even ask itself how Oswald had obtained his
passport for travel to Mexico. In 1963, to the US Gov't, Oswald had become
the "Invisible Man".
Oz wasn't just invisible to the Feds. He was also invisible to the
state authorities. When Oswald handed out his FPCC pamphlets in NO, he
violated Louisiana's Anti-Subversive Laws which, if found guilty, he faced a
possible prison sentence and/or $ 10,000 fine. The man who wrote
Louisiana's Anti-Subversive Law was none other than Robert Morris, who,
when addressing the Louisiana Legislature on the need to pass this law,
specifically named the FPCC as the intended target of the legislation. So
when the NO police actually arrest an FPCC pamphleteer in violation of the
law, he gets a $ 10 fine and not a $ 10,000 fine. Go figure!
But, if you figure that maybe someone was trying to protect Oswald
from said charges, then that might explain the timing of Oswald's
demonstration, for when Oz was arrested, charged, tried, and fined $ 10, the
NO District Attorney, who could have charged him as a subversive, was
conveniently out of town doing his annual two weeks of National Guard or
Army Reserve duty (I can't remember which). A stroke of luck for Oswald?
Or careful planning?
>
> I didn't pluck this out of the air. It is one "option" suggested
> by the evidence I have come across. There are other options, but
> it's a bit like Who Wants to be a Millionaire... when it gets up
> to the big money, I pick the right answer 99% of the time... not
> because I always know it, but when faced with several options, my
> instinct on picking the right one is pretty damn good.
>
> should be completely unrelated to 11/22/63. Or, at> least, from
> his perspective.
>
> It's only "unrelated" insofar as it would be ridiculous to
> suggest anyone was planning in '53 or '59 to kill JFK in '63.
Correct.
>
> > > his> being assisted in 1959 raises questons about his having
> > > acted alone in> 1963 (Of course, he can be assisted in 1959
> and
> > > still act "alone" in> 1963).
> > >
> > > True. But I see evidence of the same guiding hands in '63.
> Even
> > > then, although it vastly increases the chances of conspiracy,
> it
> > > doesn't absolutely rule out that he acted alone.
> >
> >
> > Yes. It is very hard not to see the fingerprints of both Dodd
> and Morris
> > on Oswald in 1963. What I don't see are the fingerprints of
> either Dodd> or Morris on Oswald in 1959.
>
> Different people at different stages.
Agreed. But let's identify some points about Oz's 1959 "helpers". First,
they didn't run the Albert Schweitzer College. If they did, Oz would not
have to mention Peale, Darwin, or London or mention his German fluency to
get in. He could name Dr. Seuss as his favorite author and they'd simply
say, "Give us the $ 25 and you're in". He'd be a shoe-in.
The fact that Oz resorted to claiming fluency in German (In order for
them to believe he would be able to understand the class professor) and
researched the proper names to drop on his app indicates to me that those
people in charge of admissions at the school had not been told to expect his
application and to be sure and pass it. That his app was not expected is
confirmed by what Robert Schact's son claimed.
Instead, what we can say about this person or persons who assisted Oz
is that he/they knew about the school and knew how the app should be filled
out to insure Oswald's acceptance.
>
> > Instead, I see the fingerprints of someone who knew that the
> Albert
> > Scheitzer school existed, was familiar with travel restrictions
> on
> > Reservists, understood the politics behind the university, knew
> Oswald,
> > knew he wanted to go to Europe (And possibly the USSR), and was
> willing to> help him.
>
> Maybe Ferrie. He may have been the one to encourage him into the
> Marines in the first place. Lee went back to NO to make his
> travel arrangements. Ferrie knew about at least one other
> European University, and I think may have actually been to Europe
> at some stage.
I doubt that it was Ferrie. There is no evidence Oswald was in contact with
Ferrie in 1959 or, even if he was, that Ferrie (who was of the Catholic
Order) would be able to advise Oswald to list Peale, Darwin, and London on
his app. Whoever helped Oz did his homework or Oz would have thought that
the Swiss spoke "Swiss" instead of French and German. Also, Ferrie probably
would have sent Oz to a school that handed out religious diplomas.
Then there is the problem of where did Oswald get the application
form to fill it out? He doesn't seem to have gotten it from Schact. He
mailed it to Shacht. Would Ferrie have these kinds of forms lying around?
If so, Garrison didn't find any in Ferrie's apartment.
No. I would say this person was either very close to the school in
order to correctly fill out the form or he was with US intelligence and
knew, from past dealings and studies of the school, how to get an
application past the Admissions Director.
>
> > I have no name to attach to this person nor any evidence he
> existed. And,> if he did exist, I have no reason to believe he
> was still in contact with> Oswald in 1963.
>
> See above. It was never one person. Probably not even one group.
> Where you aware that Larrie Schmidt arrived in Dallas from
> Germany around the time Lee arrived in FW from Russia?
Actually, Schmidt arrived in Dallas at the time that Oz was moving from Fort
Worth to Dallas. I believe the date was Oct 4.
But - Yes - I am familar with this "coincidence" which, of course, isn't
really a coincidence at all.
Your article discusses American students bringing marijuania to the college
with them. Apparently, our 20-30 students were getting stoned and
discussing philosophy. Who knows? Maybe they did LSD too. And maybe their
professor was named Charles Manson?
>
> Ferrie and one other, however, were both able to use hypnosis -
> and both had the opportunity to use it on Lee. Moreover, I'd
> suggest it's also possible Oswald was being drugged, or using
> drugs voluntarily. Needle marks in both arms in autopsy report...
> suppressed appetite... occasional irritibility... occosaional
> inability to "connect" with others... all possible signs of drug
> use.
>
> The use of "brainwashing" by hypnosis and/or drugs however, is
> something I would not support without more solid evidence.
>
> Ruby - yes. I do believe he was drugged and hypnotised as part of
> his "persuasion" to kill Lee. That probably makes me unique...
> but there ya go.
Mighty fast work.
Ruby was closing his clubs and pocketing his pistol on Friday night.
I call that the Justice Dept.
Just a thought.
::Clark::
James K. Olmstead
looking into the areas you are now looking deeper or the point I moved on
to other areas. If I remember, I started looking deeper into the Quaker
response to communist take over and the extent of the Baptist expansion
from Akron, Ohio....which is an area I was going to suggest that you look
into, Akron during that period was much like Vatican City for right wing'
groups.
jko
"Magic Bullet" <magic...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
news:3bb0...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
James K. Olmstead
look into. They are notes that I never went into....some might be of
interest.
Your best bet is the Guide to Subversive Organizations and
Publications....HUAC...1953, 1957 and 1961.
In Switzerland, starting from WWII the "Colis Wuisse" connected to the
Unitarian Church.
Dr. A. W. Beaven, former president of the Federal Council of Churches of
Christ in America.
Dr. Harry F. Ward, the Methodist Federation for Social Action and Federal
Council of Churches, forerunner of National Council of Churches.
Professor of Christian Ethics at Union Theological Seminary and the Boston
School of Theology at Boston University.
Ward is perhaps the most well known "communist" during the early
60's....although in his 80's....called the "Red Dean"......see also
testimony of Benjamin Gitlow.
Richard Arens, staff director of HUAC and his testimony of communist
activity in the religious field.
The efforts of "Circut Riders, Iinc" and their list of subversive church
leaders. (7,000) such as
Walter Russel Bowie, connected to 33 CP groups.
Henry J. Cadbury connected to 9
George Dahl, 18
Leroy Waterman, 20
Fleming James, 25
This group was based in Cincinnati, Ohio and the number one man was Myers
G. Lowman, formed in 1951. It might be your best source for those
"considered" communist or a threat....BUT BE CAREFUL it is not very
accurate.....but they did not care. Lowman also with American Coalition of
Patriotic Societies.
The publication the "Christian Century" and their eds on Castro in the
60's.
The "Adult Student" offical publication of the General Board of Educatoin
of the Methodist Church..articles on comparing Marx and Jesus as "Two
Revolutionaries".
The April 24, 1962 issue of Look magizine, "The Rightist Crisis in Our
Churches".
William C. Sullivan, of FBI and his speech October 19, 1961 at the
Highland Park Methodist Church in Dallas. and his August 15, 1963 speech
in Salt Lake city. (if you get this one I would like to read it) Durng 63
Sullivan was head of Domestic Intell in FBI
The Fifth World Order Study Conference, in Cleveland, Ohio Nov 18-21 1958
JEH's articles in Christianity Today
J. B. Matthews, staff director of the Sen Gov Operations Committee, "Reds
in Our Churches" published July 1953 in American Mercury......Welch of the
JBS used the files of Mattews btw.
I'm going to stop here for now......posting this made me look in some old
files I found the key that got me started in this area. It was the
National Defense Education Act of 1958 and how that Act became in
effect....I was interested in Congressman John Ashbrook of Ohio who
introduced HR 10508, which would ban psychological testing of students in
Oct of 62....looking for connections to YH and Lee's enlistment.
Boy when you start looking back you see miles ahead of yourself on the
path.
Magic Bullet
At some points, they obviously are - at other points, not so.
This has always created a> conflict for resolution. Why would
Oz, who is not a right winger, align> himself with the guiding
hands of the right?
I sure don't have all the answers, Clark. My best guess would be
that whoever got to him in '53/'54 may have presented as marxists
or even world federalists... or merely bland govt or private
agency officials just doing a job.
Two things I can say with some amount of certainty: first that if
you persist with left/right scenarios, you'll miss the bigger
picture. Second: no matter who was guiding him along the way, or
what his true beliefs were, it was the extreme right who pulled
it off.
"We operate here under directives which emulate (sic) from the
White House ... The substance of the directives under which we
operate is that we shall use our grant making power to alter life
in the United States so that we can comfortably be merged with
the Soviet Union." -- Rowan Gaither,
President of the Ford Foundation, 1954.
We know, for example, that he> objected to the guiding hands of
the White Russian community in assisting> him and Marina. Or
why, if Oz is taking direction from the right wing, is> he taking
a shot at Walker as the evidence suggests?
You know I disagree about that.
These are problem> areas that need addressing by those who wish
to get my attention.
There are a lot of areas that need addressing. I can only do so
much. I am comfortable with the fact that I'm on the right trail.
I'm also comfortable with the fact that I can't fill in every
minute detail... especially when the "details" aren't even
conclusive facts... ie I can't answer why he shot at Walker when
I'm far from convinced that he did. In the end, I think it is
better (for me) to leave those areas aside (at least for now) and
concentrate on what I currently have. If it's too broad a brush
for you, I can understand that. Wish I could refine it more....
but I can't. I do not have the resources.
> We can also reverse the situation and ask ourselves why
the rightwing> would want to aid Oswald, of the leftwing, to do
anything other than to> accidentally step in front of an oncoming
bus? Yet every time Oswald needs> assistance, someone on the
right, who admits to actually disliking Oswald,> is there to help
out. Again, researchers on both sides of the issue, be> they CT
or LN, need to address this.
Apart from the White Russians (whom you already admit, he
resented) who else on the Right stepped in to help?
The only others I see are self-proclaimed Leftists and Liberals
with probable World Federalists/One Worlders hovering in the
background.
> And while I'm sure the LN argument would be that the
White Russian> community was helping Marina and not Lee, that
does not explain why Oswald> continously escaped gov't perusal.
For example, the US Gov't went to the> trouble of changing LHO's
discharge status from the Marines which clearly> shows
unhappiness with his defection. Yet when he returned to the US
and> the opportunity was presented to press charges against him
(As he himself> feared), nothing happened. While there is no
requirement that "something> happen", one would at least expect
the possibility to be discussed. There> are no memos to this
effect. For the US Gov't to work so hard to get accused> defector
Oswald back (Pulling strings at the INS and giving him a loan)
and
> then doing nothing once we obtained him, is rather like us
branding Osami> bin Laden a terrorist (as we labeled Oswald a
defector and whop was> suspected bymany of having provided the
Russians with info on the U-2 which> brought down Francis Gary
Powers), arranging for his return from Afghanistan> (As we
arranged Oz's return from the USSR), giving bin Laden a loan for
the> trip (As we did with Oz), and then telling bin Laden he was
free to go once> he got here and, btw, would you like to have a
job in our defense industry?
A lot seems to lead somehow to the State Dept and I also believe
the USIA has some accounting to do.
Thanks for some interesting info on this area. Little doubt
planning was involved.
Slight exageration. He didn't claim fluency... he said he knew a
little bit and wanted to learn more (or words to that effect).
But your point's taken nonetheless.
IT wasn't a lie though... he did teach himself a little German
(In order for> them to believe he would be able to understand the
class professor) and> researched the proper names to drop on his
app indicates to me that those> people in charge of admissions at
the school had not been told to expect his> application and to be
sure and pass it. That his app was not expected is> confirmed by
what Robert Schact's son claimed.> Instead, what we can say
about this person or persons who assisted Oz> is that he/they
knew about the school and knew how the app should be filled> out
to insure Oswald's acceptance.
Sounds logical... but I haven't had my coffee yet...
> > > Instead, I see the fingerprints of someone who knew that
the
> > Albert> > > Scheitzer school existed, was familiar with
travel restrictions> > on> > > Reservists, understood the
politics behind the university, knew> > Oswald,> > > knew he
wanted to go to Europe (And possibly the USSR), and was> >
willing to> help him.
> >
> > Maybe Ferrie. He may have been the one to encourage him into
the
> > Marines in the first place. Lee went back to NO to make his
> > travel arrangements. Ferrie knew about at least one other
> > European University, and I think may have actually been to
Europe
> > at some stage.
>
> I doubt that it was Ferrie.
And I doubt we'll ever know for sure. In my article, I hint that
it was Peale, or people close to him....up to nad including
Morriss. I've identified some of those people/orgs/committees
that most likely were guiding him from late '53. It had to be
someone in that milieu.
Unless you can account for every movement, every meeting with
every individual, every phone call... you can't rule Ferrie... or
any of the others out.
There is no evidence Oswald was in contact with> Ferrie in 1959
or, even if he was, that Ferrie (who was of the Catholic> Order)
He was a Catholic - yes. At least until he joined the Old
Catholics. They WERE NOT Roman Catholics... they were
PROTESTANTS.
would be able to advise Oswald to list Peale, Darwin, and London
on> his app. Whoever helped Oz did his homework or Oz would have
thought that> the Swiss spoke "Swiss" instead of French and
German. Also, Ferrie probably> would have sent Oz to a school
that handed out religious diplomas.> Then there is the
problem of where did Oswald get the application> form to fill it
out?
If you can ever answer any of these questions, you'll have my
eternal gratitude. Let's do what we can to narrow it down.
1)He found out about the College in the Marines.
2)He told one Colleague he was awarded a scholarship to attend
there. Refer to my article for what I think of that.
3) Morris and Ferrie are connected somehow to military ops or
have intimate knowledge of same, and a keen interest in
anti-communism.
4) Neither of the two Marines he listed as being able to provide
references were called to give evidence before the WC. One did
provide an affidavit. There is clear evidence to suggest all
Marines who gave affidavits were carefully guided in what
information to provide (they all cover the same ground...
languages he learned... nicknames he had... his intelligence
etc...). Why was not this particular Marine directed to include
what he was told about the college... given that they WERE
directed in what to include...)
What it points to is either an Intel operation - or a private
operation perhaps on behalf of an intel agency (whether CIA or
ONI).
He doesn't seem to have gotten it from Schact. He> mailed it to
Shacht. Would Ferrie have these kinds of forms lying around?
Why would he need any laying around? Only two copies were needed.
But I'm NOT saying it was Ferrie. He's is just one of a number of
possibilities.
> If so, Garrison didn't find any in Ferrie's apartment.
That's a spurious argument, Clark.
> No. I would say this person was either very close to
the school in
> order to correctly fill out the form or he was with US
intelligence and
> knew, from past dealings and studies of the school, how to get
an
> application past the Admissions Director.
Okay! That's more like it. However, you are assuming people like
Ferrie had no connections to that type of thing...
> > > I have no name to attach to this person nor any evidence he
> > existed. And,> if he did exist, I have no reason to believe
he
> > was still in contact with> Oswald in 1963.
> >
> > See above. It was never one person. Probably not even one
group.
> > Where you aware that Larrie Schmidt arrived in Dallas from
> > Germany around the time Lee arrived in FW from Russia?
>
> Actually, Schmidt arrived in Dallas at the time that Oz was
moving from Fort> Worth to Dallas. I believe the date was Oct 4.
> But - Yes - I am familar with this "coincidence" which, of
course, isn't
> really a coincidence at all.
Thanks for the correction. I had searched everywhere for an exact
date... or at least month... but best I could find was
information in Weissman's WCT giving an approximate timeframe...
which I knew put it somewhere around the time Oz came back from
the cold.
Only if he was "well-qualified" as Bjorn indicated the teachers
were...
> > Ferrie and one other, however, were both able to use
hypnosis -
> > and both had the opportunity to use it on Lee. Moreover, I'd
> > suggest it's also possible Oswald was being drugged, or using
> > drugs voluntarily. Needle marks in both arms in autopsy
report...
> > suppressed appetite... occasional irritibility... occosaional
> > inability to "connect" with others... all possible signs of
drug
> > use.
> >
> > The use of "brainwashing" by hypnosis and/or drugs however,
is
> > something I would not support without more solid evidence.
> >
> > Ruby - yes. I do believe he was drugged and hypnotised as
part of
> > his "persuasion" to kill Lee. That probably makes me
unique...
> > but there ya go.
>
>
> Mighty fast work.
> Ruby was closing his clubs and pocketing his pistol on Friday
night.
? This person had 3 weeks. I have sought expert opinions. Takes
two to three to make a programmed killer.
No. Private wealthy individuals, pseudo liberals who wanted to
save the world with eugenics, various foundations and religions,
and some in the CIA and State Dept...
greg
Magic Bullet
greg
James K. Olmstead <Thp...@onecom.com> wrote in message
news:3bb1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Clark Wilkins
>
> Clark Wilkins <clwi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:RG3s7.305$MC4.45...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> Dodd
> > > and Morris
> > > > on Oswald in 1963. What I don't see are the fingerprints
> of
> > > either Dodd> or Morris on Oswald in 1959.
> > >
> > > Different people at different stages.
> >
> >
> > Agreed. But let's identify some points about Oz's 1959
> "helpers". First,> they didn't run the Albert Schweitzer
> College. If they did, Oz would not> have to mention Peale,
> Darwin, or London or mention his German fluency to> get in. He
> could name Dr. Seuss as his favorite author and they'd simply>
> say, "Give us the $ 25 and you're in". He'd be a shoe-in.>
> The fact that Oz resorted to claiming fluency in German
>
> Slight exageration. He didn't claim fluency... he said he knew a
> little bit and wanted to learn more (or words to that effect).
> But your point's taken nonetheless.
>
> IT wasn't a lie though... he did teach himself a little German
The only useful purpose for which was if he was actually planning to attend
the school.
Since I know you have considered this possibility, we must ask ourselves, if
Oz was actually planning to attend the school, did Oswald actually have an
interest in philosophy? The answer is yes. In 1962, after his return to
the US, Oswald was interested in attending a night college course in
philosophy.
So there is some possibility that Oz's application to attend Albert
Schweitzer was genuine. In which case, those who assisted him in filling
out his app may have been genuinely interested in his attending the school.
Yet Oswald had other plans. He had already taken his first Russian test
before he filled out his Albert Schweitzer application. So while by the
date that he filled out the app (March, 1959) he was planning to go to the
USSR and not Albert Schweitzer, those who assisted Oz in the app may have
been unaware that he had no intention of attending. Oz, of course, still
needs to be approved for attending the school in order to obtain his
passport. Hence, the need to still fill out the app.
Under this scenario, Oz's arrival in Moscow would have come as a complete
surprise to those who assisted him in filling out his app and were expecting
him to arrive in Switzerland.
Note, I'm not claiming this happened. I'm just sharing with you a scenario
I don't think you've considered.
>
> (In order for> them to believe he would be able to understand the
> class professor) and> researched the proper names to drop on his
> app indicates to me that those> people in charge of admissions at
> the school had not been told to expect his> application and to be
> sure and pass it. That his app was not expected is> confirmed by
> what Robert Schact's son claimed.> Instead, what we can say
> about this person or persons who assisted Oz> is that he/they
> knew about the school and knew how the app should be filled> out
> to insure Oswald's acceptance.
>
> Sounds logical... but I haven't had my coffee yet...
>
The logical conclusion is that the Admissions Office of Albert Schweitzer
College had not been told, in advance, of Oswald's application would be
forthcoming and to be sure and accept him.
> > > > Instead, I see the fingerprints of someone who knew that
> the
> > > Albert> > > Scheitzer school existed, was familiar with
> travel restrictions> > on> > > Reservists, understood the
> politics behind the university, knew> > Oswald,> > > knew he
> wanted to go to Europe (And possibly the USSR), and was> >
> willing to> help him.
> > >
> > > Maybe Ferrie. He may have been the one to encourage him into
> the
> > > Marines in the first place. Lee went back to NO to make his
> > > travel arrangements. Ferrie knew about at least one other
> > > European University, and I think may have actually been to
> Europe
> > > at some stage.
> >
> > I doubt that it was Ferrie.
>
> And I doubt we'll ever know for sure. In my article, I hint that
> it was Peale, or people close to him....up to nad including
> Morriss. I've identified some of those people/orgs/committees
> that most likely were guiding him from late '53. It had to be
> someone in that milieu.
It is certainly a temptation to conclude "it had to be" someone in the
milieu. But, once again, the obvious conclusions about Oz being assisted
are limited to:
1) Someone who knew that the Albert Schweitzer school existed.
2) Someone who was familiar with travel restrictions on Reservists.
3) Someone who understood the politics behind the university (Peale, Darwin,
and London).
4) Knew Oswald.
5) Knew he wanted to go to Europe (And possibly the USSR).
6) and was willing to help him.
Ferrie meets the criteria of #2 and #4 and possibly #6. We're looking for
someone who fits all six.
>
> Unless you can account for every movement, every meeting with
> every individual, every phone call... you can't rule Ferrie... or
> any of the others out.
Then Oz should have Ferrie's address or phone number in his belongings
somewhere (say, in his notebook).
>
> There is no evidence Oswald was in contact with> Ferrie in 1959
> or, even if he was, that Ferrie (who was of the Catholic> Order)
>
> He was a Catholic - yes. At least until he joined the Old
> Catholics. They WERE NOT Roman Catholics... they were
> PROTESTANTS.
I'm not an expert on "Old Catholics".
>
> would be able to advise Oswald to list Peale, Darwin, and London
> on> his app. Whoever helped Oz did his homework or Oz would have
> thought that> the Swiss spoke "Swiss" instead of French and
> German. Also, Ferrie probably> would have sent Oz to a school
> that handed out religious diplomas.> Then there is the
> problem of where did Oswald get the application> form to fill it
> out?
>
> If you can ever answer any of these questions, you'll have my
> eternal gratitude. Let's do what we can to narrow it down.
>
> 1)He found out about the College in the Marines.
> 2)He told one Colleague he was awarded a scholarship to attend
> there.
On what date was he accepted?
> Refer to my article for what I think of that.
> 3) Morris and Ferrie are connected somehow to military ops or
> have intimate knowledge of same,
I disagree with this conclusion. I don't consider either of them to be
connected to military ops. I think Ferrie was cleared by CIA's Office of
Security to associate with Sergio Aracha Smith. I'm aware that Ferrie
volunteered for, or was loaned to, the Bay of Pigs operation, presumably, as
a pilot. That's all I have on Ferrie and military ops. Morris had a stint
with ONI and, later, the SISS (which played a part in the "Bayo-Pawley
raid"), but, unless Morris also knew Smith, I don't see a connection between
them and military ops.
> and a keen interest in
> anti-communism.
A description that fits most Americans in 1963.
> 4) Neither of the two Marines he listed as being able to provide
> references were called to give evidence before the WC. One did
> provide an affidavit. There is clear evidence to suggest all
> Marines who gave affidavits were carefully guided in what
> information to provide (they all cover the same ground...
> languages he learned... nicknames he had... his intelligence
> etc...). Why was not this particular Marine directed to include
> what he was told about the college... given that they WERE
> directed in what to include...)
>
> What it points to is either an Intel operation - or a private
> operation perhaps on behalf of an intel agency (whether CIA or
> ONI).
Yes. An intelligence agency could be expected to know about, and make use
of, the Albert Schweitzer College.
If not an intelligence agency, then the source advising Oswald knew the
school's admission policy. To know the policy of such a small and obscure
school suggests the person was either a trustee or director for the school.
I don't think either of these descriptions applies to Ferrie.
>
> He doesn't seem to have gotten it from Schact. He> mailed it to
> Shacht. Would Ferrie have these kinds of forms lying around?
>
> Why would he need any laying around? Only two copies were needed.
Then Ferrie gave Oswald the only two apps he had.
> But I'm NOT saying it was Ferrie. He's is just one of a number of
> possibilities.
I understand that.
I'm just narrowing the field.
>
> > If so, Garrison didn't find any in Ferrie's apartment.
>
> That's a spurious argument, Clark.
Ferrie had no apps for the Albert Schweitzer College in his apartment.
Oswald got his apps from somewhere.
If he acted alone, he would have had to write either Robert Schacht or the
College itself, requesting he be provided an app. This raises the question
of how Oswald got Schacht's or the College's address to even write them
requesting an app? And then, once he got the app, how he knew to list
Darwin, Peale, and London?
If he was assisted, but innocently, one would guess that it was from someone
associated with the Marines. One would expect that there were marines who
were aware of visa travel restrictions on reservists and that they were
aware of the "education" loophole, and shared it with Oz. Still, this des
not explain the inclusion of Darwin, Peale, and London.
One can explain the inclusion of Darwin, Peale, and London, as well as the
source of the apps filled out if a trustee or director of Albert Schweitzer
had assisted Oz in getting him accepted. The problem here is that we have
no reason to believe Oz had access to such a director or trustee. This does
not rule out that someone else (Say, Morris) had such access and acted as a
middleman between Oswald and the school director/trustee. I think this is
the angle your research supports (Although I don't think it actually was
Morris, but perhaps one of his associates).
The next explanation is that a US intelligence agency, using the college as
cover for reservists overseas, provided Oz with both the app and the means
to fill it out and mail it. This is a very neat, clean explanation except
for the fact that no US intelligence agency had its fingerprints on Oswald
in 1959.
>
> > No. I would say this person was either very close to
> the school in
> > order to correctly fill out the form or he was with US
> intelligence and
> > knew, from past dealings and studies of the school, how to get
> an
> > application past the Admissions Director.
>
> Okay! That's more like it. However, you are assuming people like
> Ferrie had no connections to that type of thing...
Correct. I don't see Ferrie knowing that Oz should name "Darwin, London,
and Peale" on his school app, let alone knowing how to get his hands on an
app.
>
> > > > I have no name to attach to this person nor any evidence he
> > > existed. And,> if he did exist, I have no reason to believe
> he
> > > was still in contact with> Oswald in 1963.
> > >
> > > See above. It was never one person. Probably not even one
> group.
> > > Where you aware that Larrie Schmidt arrived in Dallas from
> > > Germany around the time Lee arrived in FW from Russia?
> >
> > Actually, Schmidt arrived in Dallas at the time that Oz was
> moving from Fort> Worth to Dallas. I believe the date was Oct 4.
> > But - Yes - I am familar with this "coincidence" which, of
> course, isn't
> > really a coincidence at all.
>
> Thanks for the correction. I had searched everywhere for an exact
> date... or at least month... but best I could find was
> information in Weissman's WCT giving an approximate timeframe...
> which I knew put it somewhere around the time Oz came back from
> the cold.
It is not coincidence that Oswald and Larry Schmidt arrived in Dallas within
just a few days of each other.
Just a thought.
::Clark::
<SNIP>
James K. Olmstead
and get back to you.
BTW I had in mind Yahoo Serious for the role.
jko
"Magic Bullet" <magic...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
Magic Bullet
> Hope so.....and good luck....I'll check some other sources Sat
at library
> and get back to you.
Lots of info on Ward... I'll post on him and others sometime in
the near future if I can tie a few things up.
> BTW I had in mind Yahoo Serious for the role.
Typecasting!
greg