Questions For Judyth Vary Baker
David Von Pein
QUESTIONS FOR JUDYTH VARY BAKER:
I will admit that I haven't studied Judyth Vary Baker's fairy tale of
a story about her supposed love affair with Lee Harvey Oswald very
closely at all (it hardly seems worth the effort, since her story is
so patently false from a variety of perspectives), so maybe the
questions I'm seeking the answers to have been addressed by some of
the other Judyth experts in the past--I don't know.
Anyway, I was just curious about the answers to these questions:
1.) What has been Marina Oswald's reaction (if any) to the Judyth
fantasy over the last few years?
I don't recall ever reading anything about how Marina has responded to
the claim that her ex-husband was having an affair with Judyth during
the last year of Lee's and Marina's marriage.
Does Marina believe a single shred of Judyth Vary Baker's fantastic
tale?
2.) How many witnesses (if any) have come forward to say that they saw
Judyth and LHO together at some time in 1963?
You would think that with all of the various people who started
crawling out of the woodwork after the assassination to claim that
they saw Lee Harvey Oswald in a variety of places, there would be a
few such people who suddenly remembered an "Oswald With Judyth"
sighting.
Offhand, I can think of zero such Oswald/Judyth sightings. Can anyone
else?
3.) Has Judyth Baker ever claimed to have received any gifts or
momentos or cards (or anything) from Lee Oswald during their supposed
affair in 1963?
As passionate as their "love affair" supposedly was (per Judyth), I'm
just curious to know if Judyth has ever said that she received any
love notes or anything at all from Lee that would have had LHO's
handwriting on it?
Obviously, I realize that if Judyth ever made such a claim about
getting cards or letters or notes from LHO, it would have to mean that
she no longer has any of those letters or notes, because if she kept
them, and still has them, such documents in the handwriting of Lee
Oswald himself could certainly be analyzed to see if Lee had actually
written them. And, of course, any such "Dear Judyth" letters in
Oswald's own handwriting would pretty much prove that her story was
true.
4.) What birthday gift did Judyth say she gave to Lee Oswald (if
anything) for Lee's 24th birthday in October 1963?
As much "in love" with Lee as Judyth claims she was, itQUESTIONS FOR
JUDYTH VARY BAKER seems likely that she would have given Lee a
birthday present (assuming she knew when Lee's birthday was, of
course).
QUESTIONS FOR JUDYTH VARY BAKER
This #4 question might seem like a very small and unimportant inquiry,
but it's a question that is stuck in my head, so I figured I'd ask
it.
Perhaps all of the above questions have been answered in Judyth
Baker's two fantasy books, but I certainly haven't read either one of
those books, and never will, so I'll have to look elsewhere--such as
here--for possible answers.
Thank you.
David Von Pein
Robert Harris
wrote:
>
>QUESTIONS FOR JUDYTH VARY BAKER:
>
>
>I will admit that I haven't studied Judyth Vary Baker's fairy tale of
>a story about her supposed love affair with Lee Harvey Oswald very
>closely at all (it hardly seems worth the effort, since her story is
>so patently false from a variety of perspectives), so maybe the
>questions I'm seeking the answers to have been addressed by some of
>the other Judyth experts in the past--I don't know.
As I'm sure you know, every conceivable question about "Judyth" has
already been asked from dozens to hundreds of times.
She's a liar and a phony, which I discovered in a three hour phone
discussion with her, long before her name ever appeared in this
newsgroup.
Why do you ONLY go after the easy stuff, David?????
Shots from Oswald's rifle generated a shock wave of 130 decibels and a
muzzle blast of 115 to 130 decibels, which are both far above the
level at which involuntary startle reactions MUST occur.
Why do we ONLY see such reactions following Zapruder frame 285 and
312?
Until you can resolve that issue, you have NO RIGHT to promote the
theory that Oswald acted alone.
When you didn't know any better, it was an honest mistake, David. But
now you know that you are wrong and all you can do is dodge the
issues.
You've become the mirror image of the people you are trying to debunk.
Robert Harris
j leyden
> QUESTIONS FOR JUDYTH VARY BAKER:
If you read Judyth's page on Amazon.com, DVP, you'll find she's hiding out
in an EU country in fear of her life so I don't think she's going to
answer. Let me try.
> 1.) What has been Marina Oswald's reaction (if any) to the Judyth
> fantasy over the last few years?
We don't know. Martin Shackelford, who was chief researcher on the old
Team Judyth, never bothered to pick up the phone and ask her. (Martin
doesn't post here anymore.)
> 2.) How many witnesses (if any) have come forward to say that they saw Judyth and LHO together at some time in 1963?
Anna Lewis, who was married to David Lewis, claimed she and her husband
used to double date with Judyth and Lee. But when Nigel Turner asked her
to appear on his TV program "The Love Story, which was part of the TMWKK
series, she refused.
> 3.) Has Judyth Baker ever claimed to have received any gifts or
> momentos or cards (or anything) from Lee Oswald during their supposed
> affair in 1963?
Ah, yes, there was a green souvenir glass that LHO supposedly stole from
Reiley's and gave to her. He even wrote a phony receipt but one of
Judyth's kids unfortunately threw in out.
> 4.) What birthday gift did Judyth say she gave to Lee Oswald (if
> anything) for Lee's 24th birthday in October 1963?
>
You got me. But I do remember she said she bought him a brown shirt.
In any event, Judyth's book is due out 3/19 and I'm sure she'll answer
everyu question you could possibly dream up.
JGL
WhiskyJoe
> 1.) What has been Marina Oswald's reaction (if any)
> to the Judyth fantasy over the last few years?
Marina wonder's why Oswald never offered to take her to a
fine hotel in Cancun. She was never even treated to a
night at a Motel 6.
> 2.) How many witnesses (if any) have come forward to
> say that they saw Judyth and LHO together at some time
> in 1963?
I would imagine a lot. Over two hundred told the
police they took part in the Lindbergh kidnapping.
Verifying Judyth's story makes them a part of
history too.
> 3.) Has Judyth Baker ever claimed to have received
> any gifts or momentos or cards (or anything) from
> Lee Oswald during their supposed affair in 1963?
I think he once gave her a bunch of old toupee's
from Ferrie stitched together as a fur coat.
> 4.) What birthday gift did Judyth say she gave to
> Lee Oswald (if anything) for Lee's 24th birthday
> in October 1963?
A coin attached to a string allowing him a free Coke
whenever he wanted one. That's why he wasn't watching
the motorcade with his fellow workers on the
fifth floor.
David Von Pein
>>> "If you read Judyth's page on Amazon.com, DVP, you'll find she's
hiding out in an EU country in fear of her life so I don't think she's
going to answer." <<<
Yes, thanks to Jim Fetzer's blog, I did read about her being in "exile" in
another country (LOL).
But, actually, this thread's questions weren't really directed at Judyth
Baker HERSELF (even though the thread title suggests that). I probably
should have entitled the thread "QUESTIONS RE: JUDYTH VARY BAKER".
Anyway, I wasn't expecting any direct replies from Judyth herself.
Thanks, j leyden.
John McAdams
wrote:
>
>
Judyth *has* posted here, but her MO is to go from one forum to
another, looking for a new bunch of suckers.
Each time she starts getting critical scrutiny, she moves on to
another.
.John
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Robert Harris
David, you seem to have once again, evaded my questions. Let's give
you another chance?
Why do you ONLY go after the easy stuff, David?????
Shots from Oswald's rifle generated a shock wave of 130 decibels and a
muzzle blast of 115 to 130 decibels, which are both far above the
level at which involuntary startle reactions MUST occur.
Why do we ONLY see such reactions following Zapruder frame 285 and
312?
Until you can resolve that issue, you have NO RIGHT to promote the
theory that Oswald acted alone.
When you didn't know any better, it was an honest mistake, David. But
now you know that you are wrong and all you can do is dodge the
issues.
You've become the mirror image of the people you are trying to debunk.
Robert Harris
On 5 Mar 2010 14:31:39 -0500, David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com>
wrote:
>
>
David Von Pein
>>> "David, you seem to have once again, evaded my questions." <<<
Oh really?? I can't imagine why.
WhiskyJoe
> Shots from Oswald's rifle generated a shock wave
> of 130 decibels and a muzzle blast of 115 to 130
> decibels, which are both far above the level at
> which involuntary startle reactions MUST occur.
> Why do we ONLY see such reactions following Zapruder
> frame 285 and 312?
We do not see such reactions following Zapruder
frame 285 and 312. Only you do.
In 1978, for the HSCA Dr. William Hartmann
conducted an extensive study of almost the
entire Zapruder film, as explained in Larry
Sturdivan's "The JFK Myths" on page 305,
Appendix E, "Statistical Analysis on the Jiggle".
He projected each frame on a wall and measured
the jiggle, as expressed as a fraction of the
width of a slide, to the nearest 0.1%.
His findings show that frame 291, corresponding
to a possible startle at frame 285, far from
being the largest or the second largest startle,
is tied for the seventh largest startle.
Here is a chart showing the frame of the measured
jiggle, the frame it corresponds to, assuming a
reasonable 6 frame delay from Mr. Zapruder's
startle reaction and the strength of the startle:
Sorted by time:
Z 158 / 152 / 2.4 ; possible shot at Z152
Z 182 / 176 / 2.1
Z 191 / 185 / 2.5 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 197 / 191 / 3.4 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 210 / 204 / 2.5 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 221 / 215 / 2.1 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 227 / 221 / 2.6 ; very likely shot at Z221 or Z222
Z 291 / 285 / 2.1
Z 318 / 312 / 3.7 ; definite shot at Z312
Now sorted by strength
Z 318 / 312 / 3.7 ; definite shot at Z312
Z 197 / 191 / 3.4 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 227 / 221 / 2.6 ; very likely shot at Z221 or Z222
Z 191 / 185 / 2.5 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 210 / 204 / 2.5 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 158 / 152 / 2.4 ; possible shot at Z152
Z 182 / 176 / 2.1
Z 221 / 215 / 2.1 ; from sign blocking ?
Z 291 / 285 / 2.1
Question 1:
From this chart, how is it you find that the
two most significant jiggles are at Z291/285
and Z318/312?
And yes, I know, you reject this chart, because it
does not support your pet theory.
Question 2:
But who did a better job than Hartmann?
Question 3:
Did they make quantitative measurements?
Question 4:
Did they measure all frames for possible jiggles?
Question 5:
Can we see a chart of these measurements?
Question 6:
And if we ignore Dr. Hartmann's work, what of the
Altgens photograph. Did three of the four standing
Secret Service Agents in the follow up car turn to
look behind them because they heard an inaudible
bullet?
Hopefully you won't dodge these issues nor any of
these six questions.
Anthony Marsh
You are on the right track, but you overlook the overall work of all the
scientists who did jiggle analysis for the HSCA. And I think my match-up
works better than theirs did.
Another factor which might influence our choosing the HSCA version or
mine would be the jiggle analysis of the Zapruder film. Even the HSCA
admitted that the jiggle analysis matched better when the grassy knoll
shot was lined up with Z-313. [2] Figure 3 compares the timing of the
impulses to the Zapruder film. The HSCA rejected the shot which is
indicated in brackets as being too fast for Oswald to have fired. The
jiggle analysis measured the amount of panning error by Zapruder. To
simply and clarify, I have put the groups into ascending order. The group
with the largest amount of blur is marked 'A', the second largest 'B',
etc. I have chosen the Hartmann figures to be representative, as his are
usually midway between Alvarez or Scott's figures. Zapruder's camera ran
at 18.3 frames per second on average.
Figure 3. Two comparisons of jiggle analysis to acoustical data
Frames Group
158-159 D
191-197 B Note that the start of a jiggle group may not
227 C coincide with the firing or impact of a bullet.
290-291 E In most cases, it takes several frames before
313-318 A1 Zapruder reacts to a stimulus.
331-332 A2
HSCA Z-# hit? origin jiggle Marsh Z-# hit? origin jiggle
137.70 161 miss TSBD D 137.702 179 miss TSBD VI#1 B
139.27 191 JFK/JBC TSBD B 139.268 209 JFK TSBD VI#1
[140.32] 140.339 230 Connally TSBD VI#10 C
144.90 297 miss knoll E 144.895 312.6 JFK knoll A1
145.61 312 JFK TSBD A1 145.608 328 Connally TSBD VI#1 A2
The jiggle analysis can not be used as absolute proof of when a shot
occurred, but it matches up better for the head shot from the grassy knoll.
jfk...@gmail.com
> On 5 Mar 2010 14:31:39 -0500, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>> "If you read Judyth's page on Amazon.com, DVP, you'll find she's
> >hiding out in an EU country in fear of her life so I don't think she's
> >going to answer." <<<
>
> >Yes, thanks to Jim Fetzer's blog, I did read about her being in "exile" in
> >another country (LOL).
>
> >But, actually, this thread's questions weren't really directed at Judyth
> >Baker HERSELF (even though the thread title suggests that). I probably
> >should have entitled the thread "QUESTIONS RE: JUDYTH VARY BAKER".
>
> >Anyway, I wasn't expecting any direct replies from Judyth herself.
>
> Judyth *has* posted here, but her MO is to go from one forum to
> another, looking for a new bunch of suckers.
>
> Each time she starts getting critical scrutiny, she moves on to
> another.
Another example of McAdams' historical research process.
François Carlier
Very interesting questions indeed. Full of common sense and logic. I would
love to know the answers. Unfortunately, nobody's answering, and you have
people posting in here about an altogether different topic, brought by
Mister Harris, which has no bearing on the issue. I hope people will come
back to the core of your message. I'm eager to be enlightened.
/François Carlier/
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:f16a39b2-ba91-4a9e...@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Robert Harris
wrote:
>
>
>>>> "David, you seem to have once again, evaded my questions." <<<
>
>Oh really?? I can't imagine why.
That's nonresponsive, David.
When you have to run David, you only corroborate me.
I asked you again in a new thread. I'm hoping you have the integrity
and courange to deal with my questions in detail.
Do you David?
Robert Harris
Robert Harris
>
>> Shots from Oswald's rifle generated a shock wave
>> of 130 decibels and a muzzle blast of 115 to 130
>> decibels, which are both far above the level at
>> which involuntary startle reactions MUST occur.
>
>> Why do we ONLY see such reactions following Zapruder
>> frame 285 and 312?
>
>We do not see such reactions following Zapruder
>frame 285 and 312. Only you do.
I'm afraid you are wrong again.
David has already acknowledged the reactions, as has mcadams,
sturdevan and numerous other nutters.
Pretending that you can't see them has already been tried and has
failed dismally.
Robert Harris
David Von Pein
>>> "David has already acknowledged the reactions..." <<<
They are "movements" by the limo occupants, Robert. Not "reactions".
You, as usual, are using the wrong word to describe their "movements".
The people in the limousine weren't statues, Bob. They were living
human beings, with the ability to MOVE. And that's what we see--people
MOVING around. Nothing more.
jfk...@gmail.com
"DVP" chooses to disregard the small fact that there were bullets
flying around the limo. LOL.
Robert Harris
wrote:
>
>>>> "David has already acknowledged the reactions..." <<<
>
>
>They are "movements" by the limo occupants, Robert. Not "reactions".
ROFLMAO!!
Take a look at the "movements" David is talking about,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql6VqZDiC6s
Robert Harris