Our beloved Anthony Marsh, viewed with great affection by many for his
vast and erudite knowledge of the assassination, has recently stated
several times that certain recent claims of mine are claims that I
cannot back up with actual statistics.  Those claims of mine are as
follows:

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the Dal-Tex building either specifically
said that ALL of the shots sounded as if they came from there, or else
named no other direction in their entire statements, no matter how many
or how few shots they recalled hearing.

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the general area of the intersection of Elm
and Houston either specifically said that ALL of the shots sounded as if
they came from there, or else named no other direction in their entire
statements, no matter how many or how few shots they recalled hearing.

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the TSBD either specifically said that ALL
of the shots sounded as if they came from there, or else named no other
direction in their entire statements, no matter how many or how few
shots they recalled hearing.

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the concrete pergola between the TSBD and
the fence on the knoll either specifically said that ALL of the shots
sounded as if they came from there, or else named no other direction in
their entire statements, no matter how many or how few shots they
recalled hearing.

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the fence on the knoll either specifically
said that ALL of the shots sounded as if they came from there, or else
named no other direction in their entire statements, no matter how many
or how few shots they recalled hearing.

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the railroad tracks either specifically
said that ALL of the shots sounded as if they came from there, or else
named no other direction in their entire statements, no matter how many
or how few shots they recalled hearing.

More than 90% of all the Dealey Plaza witnesses who said that shots
sounded as if they came from the Triple Underpass either specifically
said that ALL of the shots sounded as if they came from there, or else
named no other direction in their entire statements, no matter how many
or how few shots they recalled hearing.

In fact, no matter what direction was named, or how that direction was
described or worded, when one looks at all the witnesses who named that
same direction, more than 90% of them either specifically said that ALL
of the shots sounded as if they came from that direction, or else named
no other direction in their entire statements, no matter how many or how
few shots they recalled.

In addition, less than 10% of these witnesses specifically said that any
individual shot sounded louder and or closer than any of the other
shots, no matter where they were standing, and no matter how many or how
few shots they recalled hearing.

Now, yes, yes, yes, you will find *some* witnesses who gave *different*
opinions in *different* statements made at *different* times.  For
example, you might have a witness who in her/his earliest statement said
all the shots sounded as if they came from the Triple Underpass, and
then in a later statement said all the shots sounded as if they came
from the railroad tracks *north* of the Triple Underpass.  But in each
individual statement the witness is still naming a single direction, not
multiple directions, for ALL of the gunfire.  The witness has simply
changed the description of WHICH single direction ALL of the gunfire
sounded as if it came from.  That is hardly the same thing as the
witness claiming the gunfire sounded as if it came from multiple
directions.

And yes, yes, yes, you'll find a *few* witnesses who named only one
direction in earlier statements, but then named multiple directions in
later statements.  But even including those it still won't get you up to
as many as 10% of these witnesses saying this.

You will also find a few witnesses (and believe me, I already know who
they are), who said the shots came from EITHER this direction OR that
direction.  But that's not at all the same thing as saying the shots
sounded as if they came from multiple directions, because the witness
would have to say that they sounded as if they came from this direction
AND that direction, not this direction OR that direction.

The only possible way to prove me wrong on any of this, the only
*possible* way, is to quote *more* than 10% of these witnesses, along
with the original source of the quote so that we can all independently
verify beyond your word that it really is an accurate quotation,
specifically naming multiple directions for the gunfire in a *single*
statement from a *single* original source.  And regarding my other
claim, that less than 10% specifically said that any individual shot
sounded louder and/or closer than the others, the same thing would have
to be done.  I've been reading this newsgroup since October 2002, and
although admittedly there have been some periods between 2005 and this
past August when I have not read this newsgroup for months at a time,
I've still read many thousands of articles here, and not even one time,
not even once, have I ever seen any poster name more than a handful of
witnesses, numbering in the single-digits only (meaning nine witnesses
or fewer) who specifically said that the gunfire sounded as if it came
from multiple directions, or that any individual shot sounded as if it
was louder and/or closer than any other individual shot.

So I now issue a challenge to Anthony Marsh or indeed to any other
poster who disputes my assertions in the slightest:

For every witness you quote who named multiple directions for the sounds
of the gunfire, I will quote at least nine witnesses who named only one
direction for all of the sounds of gunfire.  Notice carefully that my
use of the phrase "at least" indicates that in some cases I may quote
more than nine.  And if I'm able to quote nine or more who named only
one direction, for every one that you quote who named multiple
directions, then I will indeed be quoting more than 90%, and you will
indeed be quoting less than 10%.  The same challenge is extended for
every one you quote who specifically said that any individual shot
sounded louder and/or closer than any other individual shot: for every
one you quote, I will quote nine or more who said no such thing.

The largest single list of Dealey Plaza witnesses, at least that is
well-known, seems to be the one compiled by Stewart Galanor, who lists a
total of 216 witnesses.  He does not, however, claim the list to be
exhaustive.  For one thing, he only includes witnesses who are fairly
well confirmed to have really been in Dealey Plaza that day at the time
of the assassination, by photographic evidence, other witnesses
corroborating their presence, statements recorded for posterity within
the first 12 months following the assassination, contemporaneous police
reports confirming these witnesses by name that they were really there
or probably there, etc.  Thus his list naturally does not include people
such as Beverly Oliver, from whom the earliest recorded claim of her
being there dates from 1970, or Gordon Arnold and Johnny Powell, from
whom the earliest recorded claims of them being there or hearing the
gunfire date from 1978.  But even if you add them it still won't get you
up to 10%, and I warn you in advance that I already know that Gordon
Arnold named only one direction for all of the gunfire -- behind him --
and that he also did not say that any individual shot sounded louder or
closer than the others, or at least certainly did not say so in his
earliest recorded statement as reported by Earl Golz.  And Johnny
Powell's little bombshell, also first reported by Earl Golz, was simply
that from his jail cell he saw two men on the sixth floor of the TSBD
doing something with the scope on a single rifle; he did not say that
each of the men had a separate rifle, nor did he say that the shots
sounded as if they came from multiple directions, nor did he say that
any individual shot sounded as if it had a different volume or came from
a different distance than the other shots.  In fact, in the original
newspaper story Powell did not say *anything* about the sounds of the
gunfire, not even how many or few shots he recalled hearing.

But even if you add these three witnesses to Galanor's list that still
brings the total up to 219.  Thus, since 10% of 219 = 21.9, you have to
quote an absolute minimum of 22 witnesses who said the gunfire sounded
as if it came from multiple directions, and/or said that any individual
shot sounded louder and/or closer than any other individual shot to have
a hope of proving me wrong.  And remember, if you use any witnesses such
as the three above, others besides me can plausibly dispute them as
witnesses who are not confirmed as really having been there that day,
since their earliest recorded claims to that effect date from so many
years after the assassination.  For Johnny Powell, for example, the only
way you can confirm that he was really there is to produce an official
document showing that he really was in the Dallas County Jail on
11-22-63.

I've been going through all these witness statements for many years, and
I can assure all of you that you will be helplessly unable to quote as
many as ...

read more »

On 9/26/2012 4:59 PM, John Reagor King wrote:

That's the type of qualifier you should have used early in the debate.

Wrong. In my previous message I demolished your phony 10% figure. You
just pulled it out of your ass.

Do you really think that everyone is so stupid that they don't catch on?
No matter what the subject will just say 10% every time. "10% of stars
are binaries."

"10% of fish are Jewish."

So damn what? Try refuting Josiah Thompson's study in Six Seconds in
Dallas.

It doesn't matter what the actual numbers are, you will just say 10%
about anything.

No, not I. I never claimed that 22 witnesses ...

read more »

In article <5063928...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
 Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

You did not do anything even remotely like "demolish" it.  All you said
was that I was wrong, over and over and over, day after day after day, in
article after article after article, without giving a shred of evidence to
support your claim that I am wrong.

Nope, I got it from the Dealey Plaza witnesses. ;-)

Ah, here again you are claiming that I said something that I never said,
just like you do several times a day to other posters and to me, day after
day after day.  I have almost always said that LESS THAN 10% of the
witnesses said the shots came from multiple directions.  My claim is
obviously not *exactly* 10%.

Why?  He also said that less than 10% of the witnesses said the shots
came from multiple directions.  So I have nothing to refute.  :P

You yourself, in your very first reply to me on this particular issue on
September 18, quoted me verbatim saying this:

"In fact, no matter what direction each witness named, and no matter how
each witness worded it, when one looks at all the other witnesses who
named that same direction, no matter how many different years their
statements date from, more than 90% either specifically said that ALL of
the gunfire came from that same direction, or else named no second (or
third or fourth) direction in their entire statements."

Immediately above that you also quoted seven of my sentences in a row
which all began with "More than 90%":

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/c445feb375fe...
?dmode=source

So you have no legitimate excuse to have not known from the beginning,
nine days ago, that my argument was not *exactly* 90% but *more* *than*
90%, and thus you have no legitimate excuse not to have already been clear
for the past nine days that my argument is quite obviously that *less*
*than* 10% of the witnesses said shots came from multiple directions, not
10% exactly.

Yet again, as you so often do, several times a day, every day, you act as
if I and other posters are making different arguments from what we're
actually making.  I'm not sure I've ever seen any other poster here in the
past decade concoct strawmen nearly as often as you; in fact it may be
that you concoct strawmen more often than all other posters combined.

I never said you did claim that.  Another strawman, Anthony.  What you
have claimed, falsely, is that I'm wrong when I say less than 10% of the
witnesses said the shots came from multiple directions.

6.25% is indeed less than 10%, Anthony.  Did you not know that before
today?

You have just confirmed that I was right all along when I said less than
10%.  Since you knew I wasn't wrong, why did you claim I was?

No, that's what you do.  You "guess" that my argument is *exactly* 10%,
ignoring and ignoring and ignoring all the times that I preceded that
with the words "less than."

When did I *say* you mentioned Johnny Powell?  Oh that's right, never.  
And you also have no excuse to "not know" that I was addressing others
besides you, even though your name is in the Subject line.  In your
reply you quoted me saying that this thread is addressed to everybody,
not you only.

Another strawman, Anthony.

I was addressing anyone who might respond who might use those witnesses,
Anthony, not just you.

Another strawman.

How would you have any possible way of ...

read more »

Well, I've only seen one reply in this thread so far, from Mr. Marsh
himself, and so far all he's done is to once again falsely claim that I'm
wrong while directly contradicting himself by posting the findings of
another researcher who did indeed give a figure of under 10% for the
witnesses who said the shots came from multiple directions, which of
course is entirely consistent with my own claims at the beginning of this
thread.  And so far I do not yet see any article by anyone in this thread
who has quoted even one witness who said the shots came from multiple
directions, or said that any individual shot sounded louder and/or closer
than the other shots.  So I will now do exactly what I said I would do.  
I very specifically said that I would quote nine or more witnesses who
didn't say the shots came from multiple directions and didn't say there
was any difference in volume and/or distance for each witness that WAS
quoted by another poster saying otherwise.  As not one such witness has
been quoted yet, by anyone in this thread, in precise consistency with no
difference whatsoever from the criteria I set for myself at the beginning,
I do not yet have to quote nine.

Because I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to quote one on the other
side.

Obviously.  ;-)

So I shall start today with just one witness who didn't say the shots
came from multiple directions and didn't say that there was any
difference in volume and/or distance.

Victoria Adams, FBI report, 11-24-63:

"They observed the motorcade as it approached and began passing in front
of her window and at about 12:30 PM, as the car containing President
KENNEDY, Governor CONNALLY and his wife, was passing, she heard three loud
reports which she first thought to be fire crackers of a crank and she
believed the sound came from toward the right of the building, rather than
from the left and above as it must have been according to subsequent
information disseminated by the news services."

Victoria Adams, WC testimony, April 7, 1964:

**********

Miss ADAMS - And from our vantage point we were able to see what the
President's wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that
would attract men's attention. Then we heard---then we were obstructed
from the view.
Mr. BELIN - By what?
Miss ADAMS - A tree, and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a
second shot, and then a third shot. It sounded like a firecracker or a
cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below
rather than from the left above.

**********

In both statements it is said that the gunfire came from the right (or
"the right below") and no other direction is named.  There is also no
mention of any difference in volume and/or distance for any of the shots.

If by tomorrow I see that someone, anyone, has quoted a witness or
witnesses who did say that the shots came from multiple directions and/or
did say that at least one of the shots was of a different volume and/or
distance, I will bring my total up to nine or more for each of those
witnesses quoted.

Hmm.. if I actually accused you of being Reitzes, I can see why. You
both seem to subscribe to the "never use 5 words when a hundred will
do." principle:-)

I am quite amazed however, by your claim that exactly 90% of each of
these groups gave consistent answers. What is even more amazing is, that
after writing such a long winded article, you make no attempt
whatsoever, to prove it.

Robert Harris

...

read more »

On 9/27/2012 11:28 PM, John Reagor King wrote:

Victoria Adams? I guess that makes it a Straw Woman Argument. No one
suggested Victoria Adams. And I asked you to quote EVERYTHING the
witness ever said. You are cherry picking.

Today I see two new replies in this thread, and one of them contains
this absolutely false claim:

"I am quite amazed however, by your claim that exactly 90% of each of
these groups gave consistent answers."

But we can all plainly see that in my original article in this thread I
did not claim *exactly* 90% for anything at all, not even once.  The
second through the eighth paragraphs all start with the words "More than
90%."  Those words also occur in the ninth paragraph.  And in the tenth
paragraph the words "less than 10%" plainly appear.  Nowhere did I claim
"exactly" 90% or "exactly" 10% for anything.  Nor do I say anywhere that
whatever percentage it is *above* 90% is the same percentage.  I simply
say "more than 90%" for each claim, but never said anything about it
being exactly the same for each, such as 91% for all of them, or 92% for
all of them, etc.  It will obviously differ for each of them, and I've
never once claimed otherwise, not even in other threads besides this
one.  The only thing I'm specifically claiming is that they are all
*over* 90%, to varying degrees.

Another poster has said that I'm supposed to quote "everything" with
regard to Victoria Adams, and that I only "cherry picked" or some such
thing.  I'm not entirely sure what that means.  It is quite obviously
unnecessary to quote her entire WC testimony, for example, because not
nearly all of it is about the sounds of gunfire.  But I did indeed quote
all of her testimony that relates in any way to the sounds of gunfire.

And still as of today at 1:13 p.m. CDT I see no one in this thread
quoting a single witness who said shots came from multiple directions,
and/or said that the shots were of different volume and/or distances.  
So again, going precisely by the criteria I set for myself, I still do
not have to quote nine or more yet.  So today I will quote my second
witness who didn't say anything about multiple directions, or different
volume and/or distances.

There is a statement by James Altgens dated the day of the
assassination, which is his original AP report.  I quote now the one and
only passage in it in which anything at all is said about the sounds of
the gunfire:

**********

At first I thought the shots came from the opposite side of the street.  
I ran over there to see if I could get some pictures. But it turned out
to be just more confusion. Police ran in all directions in search of the
assassin.
B134DN
I did not know until later where the shots came from. I was on the
opposite side of the President s car from the gunman. He might have hit
me.

**********

He gave only one direction for the gunfire, "from the opposite side of
the street," and said nothing whatsoever about any individual shot
sounding louder, or closer, or farther than the others.  I now quote
all, not almost all, but all passages from his WC testimony in which
anything at all was said about the sounds of the gunfire, no matter what
it was:

**********

Mr. LIEBELER - And at that point did you take another picture?
Mr. ALTGENS - I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that
sounded like a firecracker--I did not know it was a shot, but evidently
my picture, as I recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the
shot--the shot was just a fraction ahead of my picture, but that
much---of course at that time I figured it was nothing more than a
firecracker, because from my position down here the sound was not of
such volume that it would indicate to me it was a high-velocity rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea where the sound came from when you
were standing there at No. 3 on Commission Exhibit No. 354?
Mr. ALTGENS - Well, it sounded like it was coming up from behind the car
from my position--I mean the first shot, and being fireworks--who counts
fireworks explosions? I wasn't keeping track of the number of pops that
took place, but I could vouch for No. 1, and I can vouch for the last
shot, but I cannot tell you how many shots were in between. There was
not another shot fired after the President was struck in the head. That
was the last shot--that much I will say with a great degree of certainty.
Mr. LIEBELER - What makes you so certain of that, Mr. Altgens?
Mr. ALTGENS - Because, having heard these shots and then having seen the
damage that was done on this shot to the President's head, I was aware
at that time that shooting was taking place and there was not a shot--I
looked--I looked because I knew the shot had to come from either over
here, if it were close range, or had to come from a high-powered rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER - When you say "over here," you indicate what?
Mr. ALTGENS - The left side of the car.
Mr. LIEBELER - That would be approximately the intersection of Elm
Street and the little street that runs down in front of the Texas School
Book Depository Building; isn't that right?
Mr. ALTGENS - Somewhere in that direction, yes, sir. But if it were a
pistol it would have to be fired at close range for any degree of
accuracy and there was no one in that area that I could see with any
firearms, so I looked back up in this area.
Mr. LIEBELER - Indicating the buildings surrounding the intersection of
Houston Street and Elm Street; is that correct?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from
behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as
he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at
the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't
upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just
lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something
like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on
down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in
my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to
me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. Also, the fact
that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left
side all the way down, with no blood on his forehead or face---
suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, meaning
in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know
for certain where the shot came from.

..........

Mr. LIEBELER - You are quite sure in your mind, however, that there were
no shots, a noise that sounded like shots, prior to the time at which
you took the picture that has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 203; is
that correct?
Mr. ALTGENS - No, sir; I did not--you see----all of these shots sounded
the same. If you heard one you would recognize the other shots and these
were all the same. It was a pop that I don't believe I could identify it
any other way than as a firecracker and this particular picture was made
at the time the first firecracker noise was heard by me.

**********

Here his direction for the gunfire has changed from the AP report:
instead of the opposite side of the street, now he was saying all the
shots came "from behind the car," and no other direction.  He also
specifically said that all the shots sounded the same, and there is
certainly nothing approaching a claim of any different volume or
distance for any of the shots.

On Sep 27, 10:29 pm, Robert Harris <bobharri...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Of course I addressed this yesterday, and do so again today.  Nowhere in
my first article in this thread did I claim "exactly 90%" for anything.  
We can all plainly see that in eight different paragraphs I specifically
said "more than 90%," and nowhere in my entire article did I even say
that it would be the same percentage *over* 90% for each group, such as
91% for all of them, or 92% for all of them, or 93% for all of them,
etc.  Obviously it's going to vary somewhat from group to group, and I
never gave even the most meager hint imaginable to the contrary.  All
I'm saying is that they're all over 90%, some by more, some by less.

Ok, so as of 11:27 a.m. CDT today I still do not see a single quotation
by anyone in this thread of any witness who specifically said that the
shots came from multiple directions, and/or specifically said that any
individual shot sounded closer or farther than any of the other shots.  
So I shall now continue quoting witnesses who said neither.

The next witness is Danny Arce, another employee who worked in the
Depository as an order filler, similar to the assignment given to
Oswald.  In his affidavit on the same day of the assassination,
witnessed by the ubiquitous notary public Mary Rattan, whose signature
is seen on many other such affidavits submitted in this case, there is
no mention in the entire document of what direction Mr. Arce thought the
sounds of gunfire came from, which can easily be confirmed by anyone
looking at the photocopies of the original online, not only where it is
reproduced in CE 2003, but also where photocopies are produced of both
his handwritten version, and the typed version, in the City of Dallas
Archives.

The next document relating to Mr. Arce also dates from the same day, the
day of the assassination, and this is an FBI report on him.  Unlike the
FBI report on Ms. Adams above, here he appears to have been quoted
verbatim in his own words; however, like his affidavit taken the same
day, there is no mention at all of where he thought the gunfire came
from.

The next document is CE 1381, a document containing statements from
most, if not all surviving persons (obviously not including Oswald, who
by March, 1964 was long deceased) who worked in any capacity whatsoever
in the Depository.  They were all asked to indicate whether or not they
saw Oswald at any time on the day of the assassination, and if so where
and when, whether or not they returned to the Depository after the
shooting for the remainder of the day and if so at what time, and
whether or not they saw any strange or suspicious persons in the
building at any time during the day, though in their statements not all
of them answered all of these questions.  In his own statement, dated
March 18, 1964, Mr. Arce said this about what direction he thought the
gunfire had come from:

To the best of my knowledge there were three shots and they came from
the direction of the railroad tracks near the parking lot at the west
end of the Depository building.

So here again we have a witness saying that all the shots, not some of
them, but all of them, sounded as if they came from a single direction.
On April 7, 1964, Mr. Arce testified for the Warren Commission, in what
is by far the lengthiest statement in his entire lifetime recorded in
any form, audio or written, that I know of, regarding the assassination.  
Before I get to what he said about where he thought the gunfire came
from, I cannot resist quoting this little tidbit from very near the
beginning of the testimony:

Mr. BALL. Will you tell me something about yourself, where you were born
and where you went to school?
Mr. ARCE. I was born here in Dallas and I went to Stephen F. Foster
Elementary school and Alex W. Spence Junior High and Crozier Tech.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. ARCE. Well, I quit school and found a job and worked.
Mr. BALL. Where did you find a job?
Mr. ARCE.. The first job, well, you don't want---
Mr. BALL. No; Just in general.
Mr. ARCE. Oh, I worked as a cook, short order cook and busboy, and just
odd jobs at this Rubenstein place on Hall Rubenstein and Sons. I haven't
had too many jobs.
Mr. BALL. What is Rubenstein and Son, a restaurant?
Mr. ARCE. No; kind of an oyster place; they pack them and send them out,
I guess.
Mr. BALL. What else have you done?
Mr. ARCE. That's about all.
Mr. BALL. When did you go to work for the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. ARCE. I started in September---September, I believe, the 6th,
September 6th.
Mr. BALL. Of what year?
Mr. ARCE. 1963.

I am suspecting that certain circles might have what is called a ³field
day² regarding his mention of the name ³Rubenstein.²  Perhaps another
factoid in the making?
But back to our primary topic, here are the only two passages from the
testimony in which any mention is made about where Mr. Arce thought the
shots came from:

Mr. BALL. Where were you standing when you heard the shots?
Mr. ARCE. I was standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository. I
was on that grassy area part in front.
Mr. BALL. You were not on the sidewalk?
Mr. ARCE. No, I was on the sidewalk, then I walked up to the grass to
get a higher view. and still couldn't see.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear shots?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. ARCE. Three.
Mr. BALL. Where did you make out the direction of the sound?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah, I thought they came from the railroad tracks to the west
of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. BALL. Now, it sounded to you that the shots came from what
direction?
Mr. ARCE. From the tracks on the west deal.
Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. ARCE. Three
Mr. BALL. Did you look back at the building?
Mr. ARCE. No, I didn't think they came from there. I just looked
directly to the railroad tracks and all the people started running up
there and I just ran along with them.

As I assume the reader has already noticed, in this testimony as printed
Mr. Arce claimed, just as he did in CE 1381, that all of the shots, not
just some of them, not almost all of them, but all of them, sounded as
if they came from the railroad tracks.  The sole addition here is ³west
deal² (it is a common expression here in Texas to say ³deal² instead of
³thing² or ³there² or ³location² or ³object²) but since he preceded that
by ³from the tracks,² and since the railroad tracks were indeed, and are
still today, to the west of the Depository, it is obvious that his claim
here does not conflict in the slightest with that given in CE 1381.  
This is yet further evidence that the government did not alter testimony
intentionally, since in both statements he was giving a direction that
was in and of itself woefully inconsistent with a shooter on any floor
of the Depository.  But he still said all the shots came from a single
direction.  Some circles might finally catch on to this and claim that
this nevertheless is evidence of the government altering testimony since
it still seems to suggest a single shooter in a single location.  
However, given the date of the testimony, which is long before the WC
had completed its compilation of witness statements, and thus would have
no possible way of knowing yet how many or how few witnesses would
converge on the claim of all shots coming from a single direction,
whatever that direction was, this accusation is also difficult to
plausibly sustain.

Aight.

It's now 12:03 p.m., CDT, Sunday, September 30, 2012.

I do not see any new articles in this thread since the ones I already
saw yesterday, and still see no one in this thread quoting a single
witness who said the shots came from multiple directions.  I also still
see no quotation of any witness who said that any individual shot was
louder or closer, or more distant, than any other shot.

Quite disappointing, I must say, because I can think of a few right off
the top of my head without even having to look them up.  It may end up
being up to me to quote them after this is all over, lol.

But anyway, I said I would quote nine or more who didn't say either of
those things for every one quoted who did, and that if no one quoted
any, I would quote at least one per day.  So since it has now been four
days since I started this thread, I will now quote my fourth witness.

The next witness is Officer Marrion Baker, who hardly needs any
introduction to anyone who has read at least one percent of the
assassination literature, as he is the officer who has been claimed to
be the first member of any law enforcement agency, local, state, or
federal, to have encountered Oswald after the shooting.  I quote here
two documents relating to his view of where the shots came from,
beginning with his affidavit, yet another witnessed by Mary Rattan,
submitted on the day of the assassination:

**********

Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I
realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out
where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on
the northwest corner of Elm and Houston.

**********

Next I give, as is so often the case with these witnesses, the far more
extensive testimony to the Commission, on March 25, 1964, in which Baker
was given far more time and latitude than in the affidavit to explain
where he thought the shots came from:

**********

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, tell us what happened after you turned on to
Houston Street?
Mr. BAKER - AS I got myself straightened up there, I guess it took me
some 20, 30 feet, something like that, and it was about that time that I
heard these shots come out.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Could you just tell us what you heard and what
you saw and what you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I got, like I say as I got straightened up there, I was,
I don't know when these shots started coming off, I just--it seemed to
me like they were high, and I just happened to look right straight up---
Mr. DULLES - I wonder if you would just tell us on that chart and I will
try to follow with the record where you were at this time, you were
coming down Houston.

..........

Mr. BELIN - All right. When you heard the first shot or the first noise,
what did you do and what did you see?
Mr. BAKER - Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of
looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either
right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.
Mr. BELIN - What would the building right in front of you be?
Mr. BAKER - It would be this Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN - That would be the building located on what corner of Houston
and Elm?
Mr. BAKER - That would be the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - All right. And you thought it was either from that building
or the building located where?
Mr. BAKER - On the northeast corner.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Did you see or hear or do anything else after you
heard the first noise?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. As I was looking up, all these pigeons began to
fly up to the top of the buildings here and I saw those come up and
start flying around.
Mr. BELIN - From what building, if you know, do you think those pigeons
came from?
Mr. BAKER - I wasn't sure, but I am pretty sure they came from the
building right on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you see or do?
Mr. BAKER - Well, I immediately revved that motorcycle up and was going
up there to see if I could help anybody or see what was going on because
I couldn't see around this bend.
Mr. BELIN - Well, between the time you revved up the motorcycle had you
heard any more shots?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I heard--now before I revved up this motorcycle, I
heard the, you know, the two extra shots, the three shots.
Mr. BELIN - Do you have any time estimate as to the spacing of any of
these shots?
Mr. BAKER - It seemed to me like they just went bang, bang, bang; they
were pretty well even to me.
Mr. BELIN - They were pretty well even. Anything else between the time
of the first shot and the time of the last shot that you did up to the
time or saw--
Mr. BAKER - No, sir; except I was looking up and I could tell it was
high and I was looking up there and I saw those pigeons flying around
there.

..........

Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, did it appear to you that these sounds that
you heard were from the same rifle or from possibly more than one rifle?
Mr. BAKER - I would say they was from the same rifle.
Mr. BELIN - Did it appear that the sounds all came from the same source?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.

**********

In the first passage it is seen that Officer Baker, having gotten so far
as to say the shots came from a location that seemed �high,� was
interrupted by former CIA director Allen Dulles for the purpose of
clarifying exactly where Baker was at this time.  Shortly afterward
Baker was able to continue his account of the gunfire.  The only
difference from his original affidavit is that he now said he thought
the shots came from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and
Houston or the building on the northeast corner.  He did not say that
shots came from both buildings.  He said that he thought they came from
one building or the other, not one building and the other.  Finally, in
the third quotation from the testimony, Baker said that it was his
impression that all the shots sounded as if they came from the same
weapon, implying that all the shots sounded the same in terms of
distance and volume.

As of 11:47 a.m. CDT today, I see no new articles in this thread since
Saturday, except mine from yesterday.

I guess no one is ever, ever, ever going to even *try* to prove me wrong.  
But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  No one has even *tried* to do it
here for the past decade.

Not even once.

Obviously because I'm not wrong.

Not even slightly.

So, since not one person, not one, has even *tried* to quote in this
thread even one witness who said shots came from multiple directions (jeez
people, even I know some of them totally from memory, and I've even talked
about one of them in another thread within the past 48 hours), nor has
anyone even *tried* to quote one who said that any individual shot sounded
closer or farther than the other shots, I guess that is a tacit admission
that I was indeed entirely correct when I said that MORE THAN (never said
"exactly") ninety percent of them never said such a thing, and that LESS
THAN (never said "exactly") ten percent of them did say such a thing.  In
fact, it looks like it's a LOT less than 10% (I never once said exactly
how much less).  So, even the only two people besides me who have posted
in this thread, and acted as if I was even slightly wrong about any of
this, seem helplessly unable to even *try* to prove me wrong.

So I'll just continue, and continue, and continue to prove myself to be,
not almost entirely correct, but ***ENTIRELY*** correct.

Not on *almost* every claim that I made in my first article in this
thread, but on EVERY claim, without a single exception.

Our next witness is Virgie Baker, identified in some documents as Virgie
Rachley, because she married Donald Baker after the assassination but
before she testified to the Warren Commission on July 22, 1964.  The first
document is an FBI report dated November 24, 1963, where she is of course
identified as Virgie Rachley:

**********

At about 12:16 p.m. on November 22, 1963 she left her office and went out
the south door of the Texas School Book Depository Building to watch the
Presidential motorcade pass. She was standing across the street
immediately in front of the building but on the north side of the entrance
to the Triple Underpass along which the motorcade traveled. She observed
President KENNEDY'S car pass her point of observation and almost
immediately thereafter heard three explosions spaced at intervals which
she at first thought were firecrackers. It sounded as though these sounds
were coming from the direction of the Triple Underpass, and looking in
that direction after the first shot she saw something bounce from the
roadway in front of the Presidential automobile and now presumes it was a
bullet bouncing off the pavement. She stated she did not see president
KENNEDY being shot and that she did not realize this was what happened
until later.

**********

Being also an employee of the TSBD, she also contributed a statement to CE
1381 on March 19, 1964, now as Mrs. Donald Baker, but there she did not
mention what direction she thought the shots had come from.  Finally I
give next her testimony to the Warren Commission, and again, just like so
many of these other witnesses, this is either one of the most extensive
accounts, or the most extensive account she ever gave about her
recollections of the assassination to be preserved for posterity.  I now
quote all passages from the testimony in which Mrs. Baker gave any
statement whatsoever about the sounds of the gunfire:

**********

Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear?
Mrs. BAKER. Three.
Mr. LIEBELER When did you first become aware that they were shots?
Mrs. BAKER. With the second shot.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any idea where they were coming from?
Mrs. BAKER. Well, the way it sounded--it sounded like it was coming
from-- there was a railroad track that runs behind the building--there
directly behind the building and around, so I guess it would be by the
underpass, the triple underpass, and there is a railroad track that runs
back out there and there was a train that looked like a circus train as
well as I can remember now, back there, and we all ran to the plaza--the
little thing there I guess you call it a plaza--back behind there this
other girl and I almost ran back over there and looked and we didn't see
anything.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you say the plaza, you mean Dealey Plaza, the area
that lies between Elm Street and this little street that runs by the
Texas School Book Depository Building; is that correct? Is that what you
mean?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. After you heard the shots, you ran down the little street
that runs in front of the School Book Depository?
Mrs. BAKER. Along the grass.
Mr. LIEBELER. Along the grass--alongside there, running toward the
triple underpass where Elm Street goes, but you were actually running
down the little street or alongside the street on the grass, alongside
the street that runs right in front of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you say there are some railroad tracks back in there;
is that right?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Immediately behind Dealey Plaza away from Elm Street?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And is that where you thought the shots came from?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

..........

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you have subsequently heard, I'm sure, and from
reading in the newspapers and one thing and another, that it appears
that the shots actually came from the Texas School Book Depository
Building; is that right?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does that seem possible to you in view of what you heard
at the time?
Mrs. BAKER. Well, I guess it might have been the wind, but to me it
didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. The sounds you heard at the time did not appear to come
from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mrs. BAKER. No, sir.

..........

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, there has been some speculation that perhaps the
shots might have come from right off the triple overpass, from the
railroad tracks that go up over the top, were you able to see these
railroad tracks at the time from where you were standing down here--when
I say, "Down here," I mean the railroad tracks that actually go over Elm
Street and Main Street and Commerce.
Mrs. BAKER. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You could not see that?
Mrs. BAKER. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the shots sound like they had come from that area, or
did they sound like they had come from the area more around toward the
Texas School Book Depository Building and behind Dealey Plaza?
Mrs. BAKER. It sounded like it was coming from along in here--it didn't
sound like it was too far off.
Mr. LIEBELER. It didn't sound like it was coming, however, directly from
the railroad tracks that go over Elm, Main, and Commerce; is that right?
Mrs. BAKER. No, sir.

**********

It should also be noted here that, while I did not quote it in the
testimony above since it doesn?t appear in any of the passages relating to
the direction of the gunfire, that in several parts of the testimony Mrs.
Baker also talked about what she thought had been a bullet that she had
seen striking the pavement with the first shot, and one can see above that
this very thing is mentioned in the first FBI report on her.  But notice
that in both the FBI report and the Commission testimony it is said that
she thought all the shots came from the direction of the Triple Underpass,
or at least from somewhere along the same railroad tracks that pass over
it, and in the testimony she made it plain that she was referring to the
railroad tracks, which do indeed still today go over Elm on the Triple
Underpass, and continue more or less north along the west side of the
parking lot adjacent to the TSBD, with one branch of the tracks curving
around to the east and passing north of the building.  And there is no
mention at all of any individual shot sounding as if it came from a
different distance, closer or farther, than any of the others.

Oh my, it's now been six days since I started this thread, and still not
one poster has produced a quote of a single witness who said the shots
came from multiple directions, and/or said that any individual shot came
from closer or farther away than any other shot.  Y'all have *that* much
trouble locating that handful of witnesses?  Sheesh, even I knew who
they were long before I started this thread.

Is this the equivalent of a tacit admission that ZERO percent of the
witnesses said such things?

Jeez, it's starting to look like I'm going to have to be the one who
quotes them.  And it will *definitely* be less than 10%, proving beyond
all reasonable doubt that not almost every, but every claim I made in my
first article in this thread is absolutely ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT correct.

In the meantime, due to this failure of anyone else to even *try* to
quote a single witness who said those things, I'll just keep going in my
quotations of witnesses who said all the shots came from a single
direction, or at least named only one direction in their entire
statements for any of the shots, and made no mention of any shot
sounding as if it came from closer or farther away than the others, with
some of the witnesses even specifically saying that all the shots *did*
sound as if they all came from exactly the same distance away from
wherever the witness was situated.

We come next to Officer Welcome Barnett of the Dallas Police Department.  
In the third paragraph of his July 16, 1964 statement, reproduced in CE
1358, he said that he ³checked the Texas Depository Building around
11:00 a.m.,² and in fact this is the only building he named in the
entire statement.  In the next and final paragraph, which is the only
one which has anything to do with the gunfire, he said:

**********

When the shots were fired, I looked up and could not see anyone or
anything extending out of the windows.  I thought the shots were coming
from the top of the building.

**********

Only a week later, on July 23, 1964, he testified before the Warren
Commission:

**********

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have an opinion when you heard the shots as to
where they came from?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - What did you think about them?
Mr. BARNETT - When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a
firecracker, and I looked across the street. In fact, I scanned the
whole area to see where people would jump or move or make some action.
Mr. LIEBELER - You couldn't tell specifically where it had come from?
Mr. BARNETT - Not the first one, but I thought it was a firecracker. But
none of the people moved or took any action, whereas they would have if
a firecracker went off. And when the second shot was fired, it sounded
high. The sound of the second one seemed to me like it was coming from
up high, and I looked up at the building and I saw nothing in the
windows. In fact, I couldn't even see any windows at that time.
Mr. LIEBELER - In the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. BARNETT - No, sir; because I was standing to close, was the reason.
And I looked back again at the crowd, and the third shot was fired. And
I looked up again, and I decided it had to be on top of that building.
To me it is the only place the sound could be coming from.

..........

Mr. LIEBELER - So you were pretty sure fairly quickly that the shots had
come from the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - There was no notion in your mind that they could have
come from these railroad tracks down here around the triple underpass?
Mr. BARNETT - To me, it is impossible.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the sound of the shots?
Mr. BARNETT - The sounds were high, and if it was down here, it wouldn't
echo. It would be a low sound. For a shot to echo, it has to be high up.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mean to hang?
Mr. BARNETT - To hang like that.

**********

In the first quoted passage from the testimony, Officer Barnett said
that when the first shot was fired he was not initially certain where it
had sounded as if it came from, but made it clear that by the time the
last shot was fired he had come to believe it had originated from the
top of the Depository building, which is of course the location he also
gave a week earlier.  And notice carefully that he did not on either
occasion specifically say that he thought any individual shot came from
anywhere else; he is yet another witness who named only one location for
any of the sounds of gunfire.  Nor is there the slightest mention of any
shot sounding as if it had a different volume, or came from a greater or
lesser distance than the other shots.

...

read more »

In article <3e559123-9ea5-404d-ae7a-409129102c25@googlegroups.com>,

I do indeed see some there who are not on Galanor's list.  Few of them,
however, are witnesses that I didn't already know about.

That is misleading.  The vast majority of those witnesses thought ALL the
shots came from west of their location, not the last shot only.  I'm
looking right now through the witnesses you quoted in those chapters and
all, or nearly all, of the ones you quoted who said anything about that
direction specifically said ALL the shots came from that direction, or
else named no other direction in the entirety of what you quoted.  If I'm
wrong, please post here the names of the witnesses who specifically said
that ONLY the last shot came from west of their location so that I may
look through those chapters again and see if you really quoted them saying
so or not.

So everyone, it has now been one week since I started this thread, and
still not one poster in this thread has actually quoted a single witness
who specifically said that the shots came from multiple directions.  Nor
has anyone in this thread quoted a single witness who specifically said
that any individual shot sounded louder and/or closer, or more distant,
than any other shot.  So I will continue my own quotations of witnesses
who specifically said that all the shots came from a single direction, or
else named only one direction in their entire statements for all of the
sounds of gunfire, and who said nothing about any difference in volume
and/or distance, or else specifically said that all the shots sounded of
equal volume and or distance.

Today I quote my seventh witness:

The next witness is Secret Service Agent Glenn Bennett, who with several
other agents was riding in the car behind the Presidential limousine.  
His handwritten notes dated the day of the assassination, which in some
places are difficult to read, are reproduced in CE 2112.  I give now the
one passage relating directly to the gunfire:

**********

At this point I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a fire
cracker.  I immediately, upon hearing the supposed fire cracker, looked at
the Boss?s car.  At this exact time I saw a shot that hit the boss about 4
inches down from the right shoulder; a second shoot [sic] followed
immediately and hit the right rear high [sic] of the Boss?s head.  I
immediately hollered to Special Agent Hickey, seated in the same seat, to
get the AR-15.  I drew my revolver and looked to the rear and to the left
[inserted above: ?high,? and another word I cannot make out] but was
unable to see any one person that could have rendered this terrible
tragedy.  The President?s auto immediate [sic] kicked into high gear and
the follow-up car departed [therein (?)].

**********

The following day, Agent Bennett submitted his official report, and this
is what is said there about the shooting:

**********

About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the
Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this
point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down
this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded
like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical
area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear
seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back
of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit
the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second
shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's
head. I immediately hollered "he's hit'' and reached for the AR-15 located
on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up
the AR-I5. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of
the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I
was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The
President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car
followed.

**********

It is seen that in his notes the only indication Bennett gave of a
possible origin of the shots was to say that he looked to the left and
rear (and possibly ?high?) but saw no one who he thought might have been
the shooter.  The report of the following day gives an account which is
quite similar in essential details, except that now it is said that ?we?
(apparently Hickey and himself) looked to the rear and to the right,
rather than to the left.  Possibly this was merely the common mistake of
accidentally saying left or right when meaning the opposite, as is
articulated in the common expression, ?No, your other left.?  Other than
this, however, it does not appear that Bennett thought the shots came from
multiple directions, nor did he in either account make any mention of any
individual shot sounding as if it had any difference in volume and/or
distance than the other shots.

On 10/3/2012 10:45 PM, John Reagor King wrote:

"Vast majority" and "all"? What happened to your world famous 90%?

King of the Straw Man arguments.

It has now been eight days since I started this thread, and still not one
poster in it has quoted a single witness who said the shots came from
multiple directions.  Nor has anyone yet quoted a single witness who said
that any individual shot sounded as if it came from closer or farther away
than any other individual shot.  So I will continue my daily quotations of
witnesses who prove all of my original claims in the first article in this
thread to be absolutely correct.

Jane Berry was another TSBD employee, and in the November 24, 1963 FBI
report on her, this is said:

**********

At approximately 12:40 p.m., on November 22, 1963, she was standing just
west of the building, watching a parade in which President JOHN F. KENNEDY
was riding.  Just as the car was passing by her, she heard a rifle shot.  
A few seconds later she heard a second and third shot.  She observed
President KENNEDY slump over and everyone began falling to the ground or
running.  She realized that the President had been shot and observed the
motorcade in which he was riding immediately speed off in a westerly
direction.

Everyone was very excited and no one seemed to know where the shot had
come from.  It sounded as if it had been fired from a position west of
where she was standing.

**********

We see here an example of something that appears in quite a few of these
statements, the use of the singular.  The second paragraph refers to ?the
shot? and ?it? as if only one of the shots is being referred to as far as
the direction.  However, notice that in the entire statement there is no
mention of any other direction for any of the sounds of gunfire other than
?from a position west of where she was standing.?

Like most of the other TSBD employees, Ms. Berry contributed a statement
to CE 1381, hers being dated March 19, 1964.  But although there she said
she heard three shots, there is no mention whatsoever of what direction
she thought they came from, and in neither of these documents is there any
mention of any single shot sounding as if it was closer or farther than
the other shots.

In article <506d199...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
 Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

No, that would be you.  You really outdid yourself yesterday when you said
this about me:

"You have JFK"s fists up by Z-225 and then the bullet hitting Connally at
Z-226."

I'm never again going to take anything you say seriously until you admit
that I never said that JFK already had his fists up by Z225.  Quite
obviously, if you refuse to admit an obvious mistake like that, you have
probably made mistakes about the JFK assassination too, which you have
also refused to admit.

I call everyone to notice that Mr. Marsh has still not even *tried* to
*prove* me to be even slightly incorrect on a single one of my claims that
I have made in this thread.  He also, yet again, has utterly failed to
quote even one witness who said the shots came from multiple directions,
and he has utterly failed to quote even a single witness who said that any
individual shot sounded as if it came from closer or farther away than any
other individual shot.

So I will just continue my quotations of witnesses who said neither of
those things, but instead were quite obviously under the impression that
all of the shots were fired from a single location, whatever that location
was.

The next witness is Hugh Betzner, who took some now-famous photographs in
Dealey Plaza before, during, and after the shooting.  In his affidavit of
the same day, he said this about the shots he heard:

**********

I was standing on Houston Street near the intersection of Elm Street. I
took a picture of President Kennedy's car as it passed along Houston
Street. I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film
to take the next picture. I then ran down to the corner of Elm andHouston
[sic] Streets, this being the southwest corner. I was standing back from
the corner and had to take the pictures through some of the crowd. I ran
on down Elm a little more and President Kennedy's car was starting to go
down the hill to the triple underpass. I was running trying to keep the
President's car in my view and was winding my film as I ran. I was looking
down at my camera to see the number of the film as I ran. I took another
picture as the President's car was going down the hill on Elm Street. I
started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that
this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up
and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few
seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and
another one and they looked like the cars were stopped. Then I saw a flash
of pink like someone standing up and then sitting back down in the car.
Then I ran around so I could look over the back of a monument and I either
saw the following then or when I was sitting back down on the corner of
Elm Street. I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the
following: I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a
firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was
because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either
the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those
cars pull out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked
like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or
somewhere immediately around his car. Then the President's car sped on
under the underpass. Police and a lot of spectators started running up the
hill on the opposite side of the street from me to a fence of wood. I
assumed that was where the shot was fired from at that time. I kept
watching the crowd. Then I came around the monument over to Main Street. I
walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. I saw a Police
Officer and some men in plain clothes. I don't know who they were. These
Police Officers and the men in plain clothes were digging around in the
dirt as if they were looking for a bullet. I walked back around the
monument over to Elm Street where they were digging in the dirt. I went on
across the street and up the embankment to where the fence is located. By
this time almost all of the people had left.

**********

Mr. Betzner mentioned only one direction for the origin of any shot, the
fence across the street, the fence on what later came to be called the
grassy knoll, although it seems that he thought this not so much because
of the sounds of gunfire, but because he saw people running up to the
fence.  And again, there is no mention of any shot sounding closer or
farther than any other shot.

On 10/5/2012 4:21 PM, John Reagor King wrote:

I have quoted them thousands of times, but every time I do you bury your
head in the sand.

In article <506f7ba...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
 Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

Let's set the record straight, everyone.

First of all, Mr. Marsh knew perfectly well, long before he posted this
article, that I did not read more than a very few of his articles between
2005 and about a month ago.  He also knows perfectly well why that is:
because in 2005 he kept claiming that I said things I never said and then
absolutely refused to admit his mistakes even after they were pointed out
to him.  I decided to give him another chance around the beginning of last
month, but I have found he hasn't changed in the slightest.  He still
frequently claims that I and other posters here have said things we've
never said.  This of course serves no constructive purpose whatsoever in
discussing the JFK assassination, and in fact it is a disservice to any
such discussion.

Secondly, Mr. Marsh knew perfectly well long before he posted this article
that I was often absent from this newsgroup for months at a time between
2005 and this past July.

Thirdly, it is irrelevant how many times Mr. Marsh has quoted these
witnesses.  What is relevant is how many witnesses he has quoted.  In the
past month I have only seen Mr. Marsh name one witness who said that the
shots came from multiple directions.  But that was in another thread, and
he did not actually quote that witness saying so.  And I do not recall
ever seeing him quote any witness who said that any individual shot
sounded as if it came from closer or farther away than any other shot.

So I call everyone to notice again that in *this* thread not one poster,
not one, has yet quoted a single witness who said that the shots came from
multiple directions.  Nor has anyone in *this* thread quoted a single
witness who said that the shots came from different distances away from
that witness.  So I will continue to quote witnesses who said neither of
those things.

Let me remind everyone of what I said at the beginning of this thread.  I
said for every witness who is quoted, along with the original source,
saying that the shots came from multiple directions, I would be able to
produce nine or more who said otherwise.  I am now about to quote my tenth
witness in this thread, even *without* anyone having quoted in *this*
thread a single witness who said the shots came from multiple directions.  
I am already getting ahead of the tiny, tiny, tiny minority of posters in
this newsgroup who are the naysayers.  Only three posters have so far
specifically disputed my claims on this matter in any thread: Robert
Harris, Curt Jester, and Anthony Marsh.  Not even Pat Speer in this thread
made any specific statement that all of my claims at the beginning of this
thread are incorrect.  That means even the vast majority of CTs alone in
this newsgroup haven't disputed me in the slightest on this.

Obviously because they know better.

Witness number ten:

Next we have Officer Eugene Boone of the Dallas County Sheriff?s
Department, and his claim to fame is that he is the person who found the
rifle on the sixth floor of the Depository.  But of course what concerns
us here is what he said about the sounds of the gunfire.  I give first his
report filed on the day of the assassination, which is reproduced in
Decker Exhibit No. 5323:

**********

Att [sic] approx. 1pm date I was in front of the Sheriffs [sic] Office at
505 Main St Dallas Texas when I heard three shots coming from the vicinity
of where the Presidents [sic] car was, I raced across the street (Main &
Houston).  The Presidential car and other cars were turning onto Stemmons
Fwy.  Some of the bystanders said the shots came from the overpass.  I ran
across the street (Elm) and up the embankment over the retaining wall and
into the freight yard and was unable to locate anything.

**********

I advise readers not to trust what any author says about these documents
without reading them for yourself.  If you go by Galanor?s list you may
notice that Galanor puts Boone in the ?Knoll? category.  But that isn?t
what Boone said here.  He said the vicinity of the President?s car, and it
should be noted that most researchers agree that the limousine was
somewhere in front of the Depository at least when the first shot was
fired.  Also Boone said that witnesses told him the shots came from the
overpass, not that he himself thought the shots came from the overpass.  
That also is not the knoll.  I have noticed Galanor doing this sort of
thing with other witnesses as well.  Next I give Boone?s testimony to the
Warren Commission, taken on March 25, 1964:

**********

Mr. BALL - On the 22d of November, where were you working?
Mr. BOONE - I was working downtown. I was out viewing the parade.
Mr. BALL - Where did you view the parade?
Mr. BOONE - Right in front of the sheriff's office.
Mr. BALL - Had you been assigned a place, a job that day?
Mr. BOONE - No.
Mr. BALL - You were out in front of the sheriff's office on Main Street?
Mr. BOONE - That is correct.
Mr. BALL - Near Houston?
Mr. BOONE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And who were you with?
Mr. BOONE - Officer Mooney was out there, I believe, and several of the
office personnel, women in the office, clerk-typist and what have you.
Ralph Walters, Buddy Walthers, Allen Sweatt, L. C. Smith. Officer
Gramstaff. That is about all I can remember.
Mr. BALL - What happened there?
Mr. BOONE - Well, it was approximately 1 o'clock when we heard the
shots. The motorcade had already passed by us and turned back to the
north on Houston Street. And we heard what we thought to be a shot. And
there seemed to be a pause between the first shot and the second shot
and third shots--a little longer pause. And we raced across the street
there.
Mr. BALL - You raced across what street?
Mr. BOONE - Houston Street.
Mr. BALL - You turned to your right and went west?
Mr. BOONE - Well, there is a big cement works out there. We went on west
across Houston Street, and then cut across the grass out there behind the
large cement works there. Some of the bystanders over there seemed to
think the shots came from up over the railroad in the freight yards, from
over the triple underpass. So there was some city officer, I don't know
who he was, motorcycle officer had laid his motorcycle down and was
running up the embankment to get over a little retaining wall that
separates the freight yards there. He went over the wall first, and I was
right behind him, going into the freight yards. We searched out the
freight yards. We were unable to find anything.

**********

In both statements Boone was consistent in describing his own actions: in
both he said he watched the motorcade from in front of the Sheriff?s
office, and then after the shots were fired he ran over to the freight
yard.  Absent this time before the Commission is his earlier claim of
initially believing the shots came from the vicinity of the limousine, but
he still said again here that bystanders told him the shots had all come
from a certain direction.  This time it is not simply ?the overpass,? but
instead ?from up over the railroad in the freight yards, from over the
triple underpass.?  But again he did not say that this was his own
impression of where the shots came from, but instead what witnesses told
him.  And this is not exactly the knoll either.  There is also no mention
of Boone himself, or any of the witnesses he talked to, saying that the
shots came from multiple directions, nor is there any mention of any of
them thinking that any of the shots came from a different distance, closer
or farther, than the other shots.

It has now been eleven days since I started this thread, and still not
one person, not one, has in this thread quoted a single witness who said
the shots came from multiple directions.  Nor has anyone quoted a single
witness who said that any individual shot sounded louder and/or closer,
or more distant, than any other shot.  Only two posters in this thread,
and one in another, have made any specific claim that I am "wrong" in
any of my claims made in the first article in this thread.  But they all
seem very reluctant to post in this thread even the most meager shred of
evidence imaginable that I am even slightly wrong on even a single one
of those claims.  So I shall simply continue to *prove* my claims to be
correct by continuing to post witnesses who each named a *single*
direction for *all* of the gunfire, and who made no mention of any
difference in volume or distance in any of the shots.

Witness number eleven:

Another well-known witness in the assassination literature is Lee
Bowers, whose statements about the assassination have been used in
various ways by various authors, both to support and dispute the idea of
multiple shooters.  Bowers was in quite a unique position: he was in the
railroad tower near the parking lot adjacent to the TSBD, and could see
more or less the entirety of the back side of the picket fence that runs
along the grassy knoll, and furthermore from a position of some
elevation to see over the cars in the lot.  There is a report on Bowers
from the day of the assassination by Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins, but
most of the document concerns only the issue of the cars in the parking
lot, including that Bowers had seen two cars driving through the lot
prior to the shooting.  There is only one sentence in the document in
which the shooting is mentioned at all, and nothing more is said than
that Bowers heard three shots.  On the same day Bowers submitted an
affidavit, but again in this document nearly all of it is about the cars
in the lot, and of the shots the only description that is given is that
I heard at least 3 shots very close together.

But again, as is so often the case with these witnesses, Bowers was
allowed to expound at much greater length before the Warren Commission
than ever before, and I quote here in their entirety all passages in
which anything at all is said about the gunfire itself, from his
testimony of April 2, 1964:

**********

Mr. BOWERS - I heard three shots. One, then a slight pause, then two
very close together. Also reverberation from the shots.
Mr. BELIN - And were you able to form an opinion as to the source of the
sound or what direction it came from, I mean?
Mr. BOWERS - The sounds came either from up against the School
Depository Building or near the mouth of the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL - Were you able to tell which?
Mr. BOWERS - No; I could not.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, had you had any experience before being in the
tower as to sounds coming from those various places?
Mr. BOWERS - Yes; I had worked this same tower for some 10 or 12 years,
and was there during the time they were renovating the School Depository
Building, and had noticed at that time the similarity of sounds
occurring in either of those two locations.
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me now whether or not it came, the sounds you
heard, the three shots came from the direction of the Depository
Building or the triple underpass?
Mr. BOWERS - No; I could not.
Mr. BALL - From your experience there, previous experience there in
hearing sounds that originated at the Texas School Book Depository
Building, did you notice that sometimes those sounds seem to come from
the triple underpass? Is that what you told me a moment ago?
Mr. BOWERS - There is a similarity of sound, because there is a
reverberation which takes place from either location.
Mr. BALL - Had you heard sounds originating near the triple underpass
before?
Mr. BOWERS - Yes; quite often. Because trucks backfire and various
occurrences.
Mr. BALL - And you had heard noises originating from the Texas School
Depository when they were building there?
Mr. BOWERS - They were renovating. I---did carpenter work as well as
sandblasted the outside of the building.

..........

Mr. BALL - When you heard the sound, which way were you looking?
Mr. BOWERS - At the moment I heard the sound, I was looking directly
towards the area---at the moment of the first shot, as close as my
recollection serves, the car was out of sight behind this decorative
masonry wall in the area.
Mr. BALL - And when you heard the second and third shot, could you see
the car?
Mr. BOWERS - No; at the moment of the shots, I could---I do not think
that it was in sight. It came in sight immediately following the last
shot.

**********

I have said earlier that I feel that sometimes Galanor has made rather
strange choices regarding the categories into which he puts these
witnesses.  For Bowers, Galanor says Knoll & Depository.  But here
again, that is not what the witness said.  Bowers said, The sounds came
either from up against the School Depository Building or near the mouth
of the triple underpass.  From either up against the Depository or near
the mouth of the Triple Underpass.  He did not say the Depository *and*
the Triple Underpass.  He said the Depository *or* the Triple Underpass,
and he was quite plain that he was not sure which.  And neither of these
locations is the knoll, unless one interprets up against the
Depository as shots from the knoll echoing off the west side of the
building.  But then that makes Galanor s interpretation even more
problematic, because then that would be the knoll, and the Triple
Underpass would be a different location, so with that interpretation he
should have said Knoll or Triple Underpass.  But it should be obvious
that Bowers was not claiming that the gunfire came from two directions.  
He was clearly saying that he thought it came from one direction *or*
the other, not one direction *and* the other.  And notice there is no
mention at all of any shot sounding louder, or closer, or farther, than
any of the other shots.

On 10/7/2012 11:12 AM, John Reagor King wrote:

Except for YOU.

Except for YOU.

We don't need to. It is merely sufficient to say that you are always
wrong about everything. That is your goal in life.

On 10/6/2012 6:42 PM, John Reagor King wrote:

Well, unlike you I don't post exactly the same message 100 times every
day for months and call them all separate messages.
Nor is all my writing only here in this newsgroup. You refuse to read
everything I write. That is your choice, but then don't claim that I
never wrote it.

Except YOU.

Except YOU.

Make sure that you ONLY quote the WC and never any other source. Or else
how would you be able to confirm that you are a WC defender?

In article <5071cde...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
 Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

I call everyone to notice that Mr. Marsh has still not made the most
meager attempt imaginable to even *try* to actually *prove* that a single
one of my claims in the first article in this thread are even *slightly*
incorrect.  His whole argument boils down to nothing more than, "You're
wrong just because."  This of course is woefully unconvincing to any
reasonable person.  Still as of today not one poster in this thread, not
one, not even Mr. Marsh himself, has actually *quoted* a single witness
specifically saying that the shots came from multiple directions, nor has
he or anyone else in this thread quoted a single witness who said that any
individual shot came from closer or farther away than the other shots.  
So yet again I will continue to prove that all of my claims in my original
article in this thread are absolutely correct.

Witness number twelve:

Charles Brehm and his five-year-old son, James, were standing across the
street from Abraham Zapruder, i.e. on the south side of Elm not far from
the curb.  They can clearly be seen in the film from roughly frame 270 to
frame 300, or for a little under two seconds when the film is viewed in
real time.  They are standing about twenty feet or so to the left of Jean
Hill in her bright red coat, and Charles Brehm is wearing a white
long-sleeved shirt and dark pants.  Thus he and his son were among the
closest witnesses to the limousine as the shots were being fired.  Brehm
was interviewed by the Dallas Times Herald soon after the shooting, and in
that article this is said:

**********

The witness Brehm was shaking uncontrollably as he further described the
shooting. "The first shot must not have been too solid, because he just
slumped. Then on the second shot he seemed to fall back." Brehm seemed to
think the shots came from in front of or beside the President. He
explained the President did not slump forward as if he would have after
being shot from the rear. The book depository building stands in the rear
of the President's location at the time of the shooting.

**********

Again here I find Galanor?s decision of which category to put Brehm in
curious.  Even though right below the category Galanor quotes exactly what
I quoted above, Brehm is said to be a ?Knoll & Depository? witness.  Yet
we can all plainly see that the article says that he thought the shots
came from in front of *or* beside the President, not in front of *and*
beside the President.  Galanor seems to consistently confuse the use of
the conjunction ?or? with one of a different meaning, ?and.?

Two days after the assassination Brehm was interviewed by the FBI.  This
also is a document quoted verbatim by Galanor:

**********

When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the
President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning
forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to
be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to
stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President
appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was
hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and
then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in
that direction. BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three
shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military
service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he
expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as
quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and
fire three shots. BREHM stated he definitely knew the President had been
shot and he recalled having seen blood on the President's face. He also
stated that it seemed quite apparent to him that the shots came from one
of two buildings back at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets.
Immediately after the third shot rang out, BREHM pushed his son down on
the grass and for the moment was more concerned with the safety of his son
who might be hit accidentally by any wild gunfire which might follow.
BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the
President's car only seemed to move 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that
the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he
is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was
riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of
his sight.

**********

Let us look carefully at the only sentence in the entire document in which
anything at all is said about where Brehm thought the gunfire had come
from: ?He also stated that it seemed quite apparent to him that the shots
came from one of two buildings back at the corner of Elm and Houston
Streets.?  One of two buildings.  Quite obviously this means only one
building *or* the other, not one building *and* the other.  And this time
neither of these can be correctly interpreted as being the knoll.  One
must therefore wonder about Galanor?s integrity to quote this in support
of his ?Knoll & Depository? category, when this document clearly does not
support that at all.  This is yet another example of what I have often
said: never trust what someone else tells you a document says.  Read the
document for yourself before you decide that the author or researcher is
correct.

However, I should at least note that this description is rather different
from the newspaper article.  There Brehm apparently made no reference to
any buildings.  Still, in both documents, while the description of
direction has certainly changed, it is still clear that in neither case
did Brehm appear to be suggesting that the shots came from multiple
directions.

Time to set the record straight again, everybody.  :D

In article <5071fbf...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
 Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

Here Mr. Marsh is again making a very false claim about me, to be added
to so very many others.  I have never once come even remotely close to
posting an identical message 100 times.  I have done that maybe a
handful of times at the most.  And I certainly haven't done anything
even remotely like that "for months," lol.

Here Mr. Marsh is being quite unreasonable, everyone, and this is of
course nothing new for him.  I have never once suggested to him that he
read everything I have ever written in this newsgroup or out of it, so
he is off base suggesting that anyone should read everything he has ever
written either.  He also falsely claims that I "refuse" to read what
he's written, when in actuality he knows perfectly well that nearly
every time since the middle of last month that he has posted any link to
anything he's written in reply to me, I have almost always gone right to
it and read it, even though on most of those occasions he falsely
accused me of "refusing" or being "afraid" to go read these things.

I honestly do not recall ever once claiming that Mr. Marsh didn't write
something that he did write, unless I made an honest mistake, and if so
I almost always admit such mistakes as soon as they are pointed out to
me.  I have *correctly* observed that in *this* thread, nowhere else,
just *this* thread only, Mr. Marsh has not quoted a single witness, or
even *named* a single witness *without* quoting what the witness said,
who said that the shots came from multiple directions, and/or different
distances.  I have *never* said that he has not named and quoted such
witnesses *elsewhere*.  I know perfectly well that he has.  In fact,
*both* he and I have *named* such a witness in *other* threads recently,
though *neither* of us *quoted* that witness in those other threads.  
I'm simply wondering what's taking everybody so long to name and quote a
single one of them in *this* thread. ;-)

I shall also note again to everyone that Mr. Marsh does not exactly
practice what he preaches.  For at least seven years he has frequently
claimed that I have said things that I never said, and then absolutely
refused to admit his mistakes even after they were pointed out to him.  
He does this to many other posters as well.  A week ago he claimed that
I said JFK already had his fists up by Z225, but sadly, even though I
have been pointing out his mistake several times a day since then, he
still refuses to plainly admit he made this mistake.  What does this say
regarding his credibility on other issues?

Notice, everyone, that Mr. Marsh fails to give the *name* of such a
witness that I have supposedly quoted in *this* thread.  And that
multi-direction witness that I mentioned above that I have indeed
mentioned several times recently in *other* threads was not a witness
that I actually *quoted* in those threads, so once again Mr. Marsh has
made a false claim.

And still no such witness is named in *this* thread.

Mr. Marsh seems to be under the delusion that I would not *welcome* the
naming and quoting of such witness in *this* thread, as long as a valid
original source is given.  In fact, I've been waiting, and waiting, and
waiting for just someone, just *anyone*, not Mr. Marsh only, to do such
a thing, and I've already said several times in *this* thread that if no
one ever quotes such witness in *this* thread that I will eventually do
so myself.  But we can all see that my original proposition was that for
every multi-direction and/or multi-distance witness that was quoted in
*this* thread, I would quote nine or more who gave a single direction
and said nothing about differences in volume and/or distance.  I'm
already up to twelve witnesses as of yesterday.  We're still at zero in
*this* thread for witnesses who said the shots came from multiple
directions and/or from different distances.

...

read more »

It has now been two weeks since I started this thread, and I am still
waiting and waiting and waiting for just someone, just anyone, to quote,
for the first time ever in *this* thread, a Dealey Plaza witness who said
that the shots came from multiple directions and/or that any individual
shot sounded louder and/or closer, or farther, than any other individual
shot.  Since no one has come through yet, I will just continue to quote
the tremendously larger number of witnesses who prove every claim I made
in my first article in this thread to be absolutely true beyond all
reasonable doubt.

Witness number fourteen:

Our next witness is one of the most famous (or infamous, if one prefers)
witnesses in this entire case, Howard Brennan.  It was apparently from his
description of the shooter only minutes after the assassination that an
alert went out over the Dallas Police radio for a suspect matching that
description, and as will be seen below, Brennan himself gave essentially
the same description in his same-day affidavit.  Many commentators have
noted his apparent waffling later on whether or not he could identify
Oswald as the assassin he had seen.  Be that as it may, my main purpose
here is simply to quote what he said about the gunfire.  I now give what
he said in his affidavit in its entirety:

**********

I am presently employed by the Wallace and Beard Construction Company as
a Steam fitter and have been so employed for about the past 7 weeks. I
am working on a pipe line in the Katy Railroad yards at the West end of
Pacific Street near the railroad tracks. We had knocked off for lunch
and I had dinner at the cafeteria at Record and Main Street and had come
back to see the President of the United States. I was sitting on a ledge
or wall near the intersection of Houston Street and Elm Street near the
red light pole. I was facing in a northerly direction looking across the
street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street
to be about 7 stories anyway in the east endof [sic] the building and
the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window. I had
seen him before the President's car arrived. He was just sitting up
there looking down apparently waiting for the same thing I was to see
the President. I did not notice anything unusual about this man. He was
a white man in his early 30's, slender, nice looking, slender and would
weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but
definately [sic] not a suit. I proceeded to watch the President's car as
it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50 yards from the
intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the
President's back was in line with the last windows I have previously
described I heard what I thought was a back fire. It run [sic] in my
mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of
the red brick building and I looked up at the building. I then saw this
man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high
powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun. I do not know
if it had a scope on it or not. I was looking at the man in this windows
at the time of the last explosion. Then this man let the gun down to his
side and stepped down out of sight. He did not seem to be in any hurry.
I could see this man from about his belt up. There was nothing unusual
about him at all in appearance. I believe that I could identify this man
if I ever saw him again.

**********

To say that it is ?obvious? that Brennan thought that this man was the
only person who fired at the motorcade is an understatement.

Still on the same day of the assassination, Brennan was interviewed by
the FBI, and this is the entirety of the portion of the report in which
anything at all is said about the gunfire:

**********

He said the automobile [Presidential limousine] had passed down Elm
Street (going in a westerly direction) approximately 30 yard s from the
point where he (Brennan) was seated when he heard a loud report which he
first thought to be the "backfire" of an automobile. He said he hoes not
distinctly remember a second shot but he remembers "more than one
noise," as if someone was shooting fire crackers, and consequently he
believes there must have been a second shot before he looked in the
direction of the Texas School Book Depository building. Upon hearing the
report, or reports, he looked across the street to the Texas School book
Depository building, where he saw a man in a window on the sixth floor
near the Southeast corner of the building. The man he observed in the
window had what appeared to be a "heavy" rifle in his hands. He could
not tell whether or not this rifle had a telescopic sight, as the rifle
was protruding only about half its length outside the window. He was
positive that after he had observed this man in the window, he saw this
person take "deliberate aim" and fire a shot. He then observed this
person take the rifle from his shoulder and hold it by the barrel of the
rifle, as if he were resting the but of the rifle on the floor. He said
this individual observed the scene on the street below, momentarily, and
then stepped back from the window. He said the rifle was pointed in the
direction of the President?s car when he saw it fired. He advised there
was nothing to obstruct his line of vision between the place where he
was seated and the window on the sixth floor of the Texas School book
Depository building where he saw the man with the rifle. He estimated
distance between the point where he was seated and the window from which
the shots were fired to be approximately 90 yards.

**********

The FBI interviewed Brennan again on December 17, 1963, but in this
report nothing specifically is said about the gunfire; the gist of it
instead is his explanation for initially not identifying Oswald in a
lineup as the person he had seen firing the shots.

The FBI interviewed him yet *again* on January 7, 1964 (this report is
reproduced in CE 2006), and I quote here the one and only paragraph in
the entire document in which anything at all is specifically said about
the gunfire itself:

**********

Mr. BRENNAN advised that on November 22, 1963, after finishing lunch at
about 12:18 PM, he sat on a retainer wall directly across from the Texas
School Book Depository (TSBD) building, on Elm Street. While he was
sitting there, he looked up at the TSBD building and noticed that there
was a man standing in the sixth floor window; however, at this time,
this man did not have a rifle. He said he then turned around and noticed
that the man had left the window. Then he turned his head back toward
the South where the Presidential motorcade would come. Approximately ten
minutes after sitting down on this retaining wall, the Presidential
motorcade turned onto Houston Street, and he was able to see President
KENNEDY and his wife pass approximately thirty yards west on Elm from
where he was seated. The car passed out of sight and shortly thereafter,
he heard one shot, which he first believed to have been a firecracker,
and he immediately looked toward the TSBD building and saw a man on the
sixth floor in the same window, near the southeast corner of the
building, and noticed that this man took deliberate aim and shot the
rifle again. When he saw the man shoot the rifle this time, he realized
it was the same man that he had seen standing in the window a few
minutes before.

**********

I next quote from what, as far as I know, is the lengthiest and most
detailed account Mr. Brennan ever gave in his entire life about the
assassination under any circumstances in any venue, such as testimony,
affidavit, filmed interview, magazine or newspaper interview, book,
etc., with the possible exception of his own book, co-written with J.
Edward Cherryholmes, "Eyewitness to History: The Kennedy Assassination:
As Seen by Howard Brennan."  Just as with so many of the other
witnesses, this will once again be testimony before the Warren
Commission.  His testimony of March 24, 1964, is among the longest of
all the 552 witnesses, but as always before, I will try to quote every
passage in which anything at all is said about the gunfire itself, no
matter what it was, but any reader can quite easily confirm by looking
at the complete testimony itself whether or not I have accidentally left
out anything of relevance to this issue, and any poster here is welcome
to quote from anything that I missed:

**********

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Brennan, could you please tell the Commission what
happened from the time you sat on that retaining wall, what you saw?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I was more or less observing the crowd and the people
in different building windows, including the fire escape across from the
Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store, and also the
Texas Book Store Building windows. I observed quite a few people in
different windows. In particular, I saw this one man on the sixth floor
which left the window to my knowledge a couple of times.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you say the window on the sixth floor. What building are
you referring to there?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the Texas Book Store.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to ask you to circle on Exhibit 477 the particular
window that you said you saw a man leave and come back a couple of
times.
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I am confused here, the way this shows. But I believe
this is the sixth floor, the way those windows are built there right at
the present. I am confused whether this is the same window.
Mr. BELIN. You mean because some windows are open below it?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. The way the building is built, it seems like this is
more or less a long window with a divider ...

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