I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes. Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
How many people knew that he was confined to a wheel chair and wore leg braces?
On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers <hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
Humphrey, I am wondering how old you are? It's not much of an exaggeration to say that everybody smoked back then. It was not until the Surgeon General's report in (I think) 1964 that there started to be any sustained action by people in general to not smoke or more likely give up smoking.
On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers <hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs. That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette. Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro. When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and their wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently. Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do their smoking away from the cameras.
On Apr 29, 7:29 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
[About FDR:]
> How many people knew that he was confined to a wheel chair
> and wore leg braces?
I recently watched one of the FDR documentaries and biography movie.
His polio was not such a big secret, either. It was common knowledge.
What was kept from the public view was the seriousness and
incapacitating degree. It was a matter of PUBLIC PERCEPTION.
FDR bought the thermal baths location in Warm Springs, Georgia and
retired there for a while. According to one of the films, it was
Eleanor's idea, but according to the other, she was adamant about him
quitting politics and leaving.
He died there, accompanied by his assistant/mistress, Lucy Mercer
Rutherfurd.
bigdog wrote:
> On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers <hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs. > That was before political correctness took over.
Watching Mad Men, I often have occasion to marvel at the fact that smokers used to light up in elevators and on planes. That was before it dawned on people that cigarette smoke (including the second-hand variety) really is a carcinogen and otherwise a serious health hazard. Or do you not believe that?
(By the way, I recently stopped smoking marijuana... I now use a vaporizer.)
I remember when Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) confronted the Nation staff in the conference room here after he had parted ways with the magazine over the Iraq War. He petulantly insisted on lighting up, as if this was a "political correctness" issue. Well, he was certainly within his rights to poison his own body, but he had no more right than a multinational corporation to pollute the air others breathe.
> > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
> That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
> only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
> then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
> Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
> and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
> Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
> and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
> When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
> tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
> remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
> during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
> final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
> Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
> on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away.
> bigdog wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers <hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> >> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> >> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> >> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> >> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> >> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> >> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> >> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> >> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> >> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> >> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> >> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> > At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
> > That was before political correctness took over.
> Watching Mad Men, I often have occasion to marvel at the fact that smokers
> used to light up in elevators and on planes. That was before it dawned on
> people that cigarette smoke (including the second-hand variety) really is
> a carcinogen and otherwise a serious health hazard. Or do you not believe
> that?
> (By the way, I recently stopped smoking marijuana... I now use a
> vaporizer.)
> I remember when Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) confronted the Nation staff
> in the conference room here after he had parted ways with the magazine
> over the Iraq War. He petulantly insisted on lighting up, as if this was a
> "political correctness" issue. Well, he was certainly within his rights to
> poison his own body, but he had no more right than a multinational
> corporation to pollute the air others breathe.
> /sandy
Hi Sandy,
The best in the "transitional period" was the "smoking section" in
airplanes. There was not even the facade as in restaurants of somehow
the smoking area being a separate and somehow isolated area where the
smoke was contained. It was just the last bunch of rows.
If any of us, including smokers, could go back in time to even the
early 1980s we would be amazed by the constant smell of cigarette
smoke everywhere. But you don't need a time machine. Just travel
outside the U.S.!
> > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
> That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
> only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
> then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
> Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
> and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
> Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
> and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
> When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
> tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
> remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
> during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
> final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
> Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
> on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and their
> wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently.
> Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do their
> smoking away from the cameras.
Bigdog, it wasn't "political correctness" that changed the perspective on smoking. You seem old enough to remember the commercial with Hamilton Burger of Perry Mason fame explaining how cigarettes had led to his imminent death. This was WAY before that catch-phrase of "political correctness" came in. (Was it Yul Brenner who did one too?)
As we later learned the cigarette situation actually WAS one of those long-running conspiracies. It took a whistle-blower to finally convince the hold-outs of what the cig companies knew all along.
My mother smoked through the pregnancies with me and my siblings and finally quit. Lots of other ordinary people did it, and it had NOTHING to do with the dodge of labeling it "political correctness." It had to do with realizing this was a product that killed you.
(For what it's worth, I'm not coming from any position of superiority or enlightenment on this. I drink too much and no doubt am killing myself with that drug. So be it. But it really bugs me how people now jump too easily to the "political correctness" label.)
>bigdog wrote:
>> On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers <hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs. >> That was before political correctness took over.
>Watching Mad Men, I often have occasion to marvel at the fact that smokers >used to light up in elevators and on planes. That was before it dawned on >people that cigarette smoke (including the second-hand variety) really is >a carcinogen and otherwise a serious health hazard. Or do you not believe >that?
>(By the way, I recently stopped smoking marijuana... I now use a >vaporizer.)
How does that work out for you? The weed requires heat to break the double bond between two of the carbon atoms to activate the good stuff in the weed. I wouldn't think a vaporizer would do all that.
> In article<4f9f0da...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Sandy McCroskey says...
>> bigdog wrote:
>>> On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers<hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>>>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>>>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>>>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>>>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>>>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>>>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>>>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>>>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>>>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>>> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
>>> That was before political correctness took over.
>> Watching Mad Men, I often have occasion to marvel at the fact that smokers
>> used to light up in elevators and on planes. That was before it dawned on
>> people that cigarette smoke (including the second-hand variety) really is
>> a carcinogen and otherwise a serious health hazard. Or do you not believe
>> that?
>> (By the way, I recently stopped smoking marijuana... I now use a
>> vaporizer.)
> How does that work out for you? The weed requires heat to break the
> double bond between two of the carbon atoms to activate the good stuff in
> the weed. I wouldn't think a vaporizer would do all that.
> Hey, but what do I know about the weed!
> Bill Clarke
Yeah, that ganja freak on the old SNL shows could never have gotten off with his raw weed sandwiches.
For oral ingestion, I used to melt it into butter by holding a flame under a spoon.
With a vaporizer, the cannabinoids boil and form a tasty vapor.
<quote on>
In 2007 a study by University of California, San Francisco published in the Journal of the American Academy of Neurology[4] examined the efficacy of a vaporizer that heats cannabis to a temperature between 180 ?C (356 ?F) and 200 ?C (392 ?F) degrees and found:
Using CO as an indicator, there was virtually no exposure to harmful combustion products using the vaporizing device. Since it replicates smoking's efficiency at producing the desired THC effect using smaller amounts of the active ingredient as opposed to pill forms, this device has great potential for improving the therapeutic utility of THC.
</quote off>
Vaporizers can be pretty fancy, with digital temperature control, and expensive. But I am using the neat and simple pipe found at http://www.vaporgenie.com/.
> On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers<hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
> That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
> only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
> then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
> Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
Maybe because they were being paid by the corrupt cigarette companies to smoke in public and on TV and in the movies.
It's called Product Placement.
> and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
> Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
> and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
> When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
> tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
> remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
> during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
> final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
> Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
> on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and their
> wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently.
> Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do their
> smoking away from the cameras.
On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes. > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
Jackie was apparently a three-pack-a-day smoker when she was diagnosed with non-hodgkins lymphoma in January 1994. She quit smoking at the request of her daughter Caroline, but only lived four more months, passing away in May 1994.
She did a very good job of hiding her smoking from the public all those years.
On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes. > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
Tobacco companies became masters at targeting a group. During World War II, soldiers were issued free cigarettes, the result being millions of nicotine-addicted G.I.s returning home after the war. Their girlfriends/wives picked up the habit, and this was part of the reason why smoking was so prevalent during the 1950’s and early 1960’s before the TV/Radio ban.
Before the ban, Cigarettes were big business in TV and, as many of you pointed out, people smoked on TV all of the time. Cigarette companies sponsored 55 network TV shows as late as 1963, and their ad buys accounted for 10% of all TV revenue. Many of their sponsorships then targeted teenagers who, in some cases, made up as much as 30% of a cigarette-sponsored program's viewership. With their parents puffing away and images of smoking being cool, the tobacco companies sure knew how to develop to a whole new generation of smokers.
With regard to the JFK assassination TV footage, it is Interesting to note that such on-air people as Frank McGee and Bill Ryan on NBC, and Jay Watson and Bob Walker on WFAA, can be seen either holding cigarettes, puffing on them, or sitting within a stream of smoke from a hidden ashtray, at various times throughout the coverage that weekend.
On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 3:46:43 PM UTC-5, Clubking01 wrote:
> On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
> > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in > > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester > > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final > > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from > > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the > > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes. > > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie > > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching > > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily > > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> Tobacco companies became masters at targeting a group. During World War
> II, soldiers were issued free cigarettes, the result being millions of
> nicotine-addicted G.I.s returning home after the war. Their
> girlfriends/wives picked up the habit, and this was part of the reason why
> smoking was so prevalent during the 1950’s and early 1960’s before the
> TV/Radio ban.
> Before the ban, Cigarettes were big business in TV and, as many of you
> pointed out, people smoked on TV all of the time. Cigarette companies
> sponsored 55 network TV shows as late as 1963, and their ad buys accounted
> for 10% of all TV revenue. Many of their sponsorships then targeted
> teenagers who, in some cases, made up as much as 30% of a
> cigarette-sponsored program's viewership. With their parents puffing away
> and images of smoking being cool, the tobacco companies sure knew how to
> develop to a whole new generation of smokers.
> With regard to the JFK assassination TV footage, it is Interesting to note
> that such on-air people as Frank McGee and Bill Ryan on NBC, and Jay
> Watson and Bob Walker on WFAA, can be seen either holding cigarettes,
> puffing on them, or sitting within a stream of smoke from a hidden
> ashtray, at various times throughout the coverage that weekend.
I teach speech and writing at a local junior college, and we spend some time in my classes on the art of persuasion. We look at how advertisers, politicians, persuasive speakers, et al, employ similar techniques to convince people to buy their products or ideas. My students always enjoy when I do a PowerPoint presentation of old-time advertising, especially the cigarette ads. I usually mention the radical changes in society with regards to smoking, and how things have changed since I was in college.
Among the things they're amazed to learn:
-Several cigarette ads featured endorsements by doctors. ("Soothes nerves! Comforts the throat! You'll cough less!")
-When I was in college in the '70s, it was not uncommon for students and instructors to smoke in the classroom.
-Virtually the only places where you'd find a "No Smoking" sign were around flammable materials.
-Many high schools had outdoor smoking "lounges" for junior and senior students up through the mid-1980s.
-Stores, offices, planes, trains...you could smoke just about anywhere.
-Any kid with a note from a parent could buy smokes at the corner store. (Gee, I wonder if some of those notes were forged?)
...and so forth. I think we've gone a bit overboard with a few smoking restrictions, but overall I'd say we've made a huge step in the right direction.
>On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in=20
>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester=20
>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final=20
>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from=
>=20
>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the=
>=20
>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.=20
>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie=
>=20
>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>=20
>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching=
>=20
>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>=20
>>=20
>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily=20
>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>Tobacco companies became masters at targeting a group. During World War >II, soldiers were issued free cigarettes, the result being millions of >nicotine-addicted G.I.s returning home after the war.
The C-Ration boxes we got in Vietnam still contained cigarettes in a small 5 cigarettes pack.
> > > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> > > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> > > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> > > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> > > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> > > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> > > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> > > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> > > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> > > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> > > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> > > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> > At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
> > That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
> > only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
> > then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
> > Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
> > and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
> > Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
> > and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
> > When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
> > tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
> > remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
> > during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
> > final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
> > Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
> > on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and their
> > wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently.
> > Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do their
> > smoking away from the cameras.
> Bigdog, it wasn't "political correctness" that changed the perspective on
> smoking. You seem old enough to remember the commercial with Hamilton
> Burger of Perry Mason fame explaining how cigarettes had led to his
> imminent death. This was WAY before that catch-phrase of "political
> correctness" came in. (Was it Yul Brenner who did one too?)
> As we later learned the cigarette situation actually WAS one of those
> long-running conspiracies. It took a whistle-blower to finally convince
> the hold-outs of what the cig companies knew all along.
> My mother smoked through the pregnancies with me and my siblings and
> finally quit. Lots of other ordinary people did it, and it had NOTHING to
> do with the dodge of labeling it "political correctness." It had to do
> with realizing this was a product that killed you.
> (For what it's worth, I'm not coming from any position of superiority or
> enlightenment on this. I drink too much and no doubt am killing myself
> with that drug. So be it. But it really bugs me how people now jump too
> easily to the "political correctness" label.)
> OK, that's enough on that.
I don't ever remember a time when people didn't know cigarette smoking was bad for your health. The term coffin nails predated the Surgeon General's warning being placed on the cigarettes. People who chose to smoke (my mother was one) did so knowing the risks because they enjoyed it. It used to be considered a person's right to make such choices. People could smoke, drink, and eat whatever they chose and accept the consequences of their choices. Now we have the PC police trying to mandate that people make what the deem to be healthy choices. Nobody is getting out of here alive. Something is going to kill all of us. I prefer to make my own choice and not have it dictated to me by Michelle Obama.
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 3:46:43 PM UTC-5, Clubking01 wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
> > > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> > > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> > > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> > > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> > > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> > > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> > > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> > > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> > > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> > > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> > > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> > > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> > Tobacco companies became masters at targeting a group. During World War
> > II, soldiers were issued free cigarettes, the result being millions of
> > nicotine-addicted G.I.s returning home after the war. Their
> > girlfriends/wives picked up the habit, and this was part of the reason why
> > smoking was so prevalent during the 1950’s and early 1960’s before the
> > TV/Radio ban.
> > Before the ban, Cigarettes were big business in TV and, as many of you
> > pointed out, people smoked on TV all of the time. Cigarette companies
> > sponsored 55 network TV shows as late as 1963, and their ad buys accounted
> > for 10% of all TV revenue. Many of their sponsorships then targeted
> > teenagers who, in some cases, made up as much as 30% of a
> > cigarette-sponsored program's viewership. With their parents puffing away
> > and images of smoking being cool, the tobacco companies sure knew how to
> > develop to a whole new generation of smokers.
> > With regard to the JFK assassination TV footage, it is Interesting to note
> > that such on-air people as Frank McGee and Bill Ryan on NBC, and Jay
> > Watson and Bob Walker on WFAA, can be seen either holding cigarettes,
> > puffing on them, or sitting within a stream of smoke from a hidden
> > ashtray, at various times throughout the coverage that weekend.
> I teach speech and writing at a local junior college, and we spend some
> time in my classes on the art of persuasion. We look at how advertisers,
> politicians, persuasive speakers, et al, employ similar techniques to
> convince people to buy their products or ideas. My students always enjoy
> when I do a PowerPoint presentation of old-time advertising, especially
> the cigarette ads. I usually mention the radical changes in society with
> regards to smoking, and how things have changed since I was in college.
> Among the things they're amazed to learn:
> -Several cigarette ads featured endorsements by doctors. ("Soothes nerves!
> Comforts the throat! You'll cough less!")
> -When I was in college in the '70s, it was not uncommon for students and
> instructors to smoke in the classroom.
> -Virtually the only places where you'd find a "No Smoking" sign were
> around flammable materials.
> -Many high schools had outdoor smoking "lounges" for junior and senior
> students up through the mid-1980s.
> -Stores, offices, planes, trains...you could smoke just about anywhere.
> -Any kid with a note from a parent could buy smokes at the corner store.
> (Gee, I wonder if some of those notes were forged?)
> ...and so forth. I think we've gone a bit overboard with a few smoking
> restrictions, but overall I'd say we've made a huge step in the right
> direction.
> John L.
I remember David Brinkley talking about when he first came to Washington as a reporter in the 1930s. Press conferences were much more informal than they are now. Reporters would crowd into the Oval Office and everybody, including FDR would be smoking. The reporters would drops ashes on the rug.
You must have had a more liberal high school than I went to in the 1960s. We still had to sneak our smokes in the boys room with a lookout for the teacher making the rounds to catch us.
I think banning smoking on airplanes was a good idea, but as you say, it went way overboard. It is absurd to see smokers shivering outside their office buildings in the winter during their smoke break because employers are not even allowed to provide an indoor smoker's room. You'd think that the Taliban had taken over when bars aren't even allowed to decide whether they want to allow their clientele to smoke.
>> > > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>> > > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>> > > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>> > > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised fr=
>om
>> > > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on =
>the
>> > > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>> > > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jac=
>kie
>> > > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>> > > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watc=
>hing
>> > > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>> > > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>> > > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>> > At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs=
>.
>> > That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was =
>not
>> > only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
>> > then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigaret=
>te.
>> > Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willam=
>s
>> > and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture o=
>f
>> > Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta Nation=
>al
>> > and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
>> > When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
>> > tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
>> > remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
>> > during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in hi=
>s
>> > final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
>> > Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed=
> in
>> > on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and th=
>eir
>> > wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently.
>> > Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do th=
>eir
>> > smoking away from the cameras.
>> Bigdog, it wasn't "political correctness" that changed the perspective on
>> smoking. =A0You seem old enough to remember the commercial with Hamilton
>> Burger of Perry Mason fame explaining how cigarettes had led to his
>> imminent death. =A0This was WAY before that catch-phrase of "political
>> correctness" came in. =A0(Was it Yul Brenner who did one too?)
>> As we later learned the cigarette situation actually WAS one of those
>> long-running conspiracies. =A0It took a whistle-blower to finally convinc=
>e
>> the hold-outs of what the cig companies knew all along.
>> My mother smoked through the pregnancies with me and my siblings and
>> finally quit. =A0Lots of other ordinary people did it, and it had NOTHING=
> to
>> do with the dodge of labeling it "political correctness." It had to do
>> with realizing this was a product that killed you.
>> (For what it's worth, I'm not coming from any position of superiority or
>> enlightenment on this. =A0I drink too much and no doubt am killing myself
>> with that drug. =A0So be it. =A0But it really bugs me how people now jump=
> too
>> easily to the "political correctness" label.)
>> OK, that's enough on that.
>I don't ever remember a time when people didn't know cigarette smoking was >bad for your health. The term coffin nails predated the Surgeon General's >warning being placed on the cigarettes. People who chose to smoke (my >mother was one) did so knowing the risks because they enjoyed it. It used >to be considered a person's right to make such choices. People could >smoke, drink, and eat whatever they chose and accept the consequences of >their choices. Now we have the PC police trying to mandate that people >make what the deem to be healthy choices. Nobody is getting out of here >alive. Something is going to kill all of us. I prefer to make my own >choice and not have it dictated to me by Michelle Obama.
> On May 1, 6:20 pm, Card53<Car...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 3:46:43 PM UTC-5, Clubking01 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
>>>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>>>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>>>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>>>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>>>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>>>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>>>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>>>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>>>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>>>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>>> Tobacco companies became masters at targeting a group. During World War
>>> II, soldiers were issued free cigarettes, the result being millions of
>>> nicotine-addicted G.I.s returning home after the war. Their
>>> girlfriends/wives picked up the habit, and this was part of the reason why
>>> smoking was so prevalent during the 1950?s and early 1960?s before the
>>> TV/Radio ban.
>>> Before the ban, Cigarettes were big business in TV and, as many of you
>>> pointed out, people smoked on TV all of the time. Cigarette companies
>>> sponsored 55 network TV shows as late as 1963, and their ad buys accounted
>>> for 10% of all TV revenue. Many of their sponsorships then targeted
>>> teenagers who, in some cases, made up as much as 30% of a
>>> cigarette-sponsored program's viewership. With their parents puffing away
>>> and images of smoking being cool, the tobacco companies sure knew how to
>>> develop to a whole new generation of smokers.
>>> With regard to the JFK assassination TV footage, it is Interesting to note
>>> that such on-air people as Frank McGee and Bill Ryan on NBC, and Jay
>>> Watson and Bob Walker on WFAA, can be seen either holding cigarettes,
>>> puffing on them, or sitting within a stream of smoke from a hidden
>>> ashtray, at various times throughout the coverage that weekend.
>> I teach speech and writing at a local junior college, and we spend some
>> time in my classes on the art of persuasion. We look at how advertisers,
>> politicians, persuasive speakers, et al, employ similar techniques to
>> convince people to buy their products or ideas. My students always enjoy
>> when I do a PowerPoint presentation of old-time advertising, especially
>> the cigarette ads. I usually mention the radical changes in society with
>> regards to smoking, and how things have changed since I was in college.
>> Among the things they're amazed to learn:
>> -Several cigarette ads featured endorsements by doctors. ("Soothes nerves!
>> Comforts the throat! You'll cough less!")
>> -When I was in college in the '70s, it was not uncommon for students and
>> instructors to smoke in the classroom.
>> -Virtually the only places where you'd find a "No Smoking" sign were
>> around flammable materials.
>> -Many high schools had outdoor smoking "lounges" for junior and senior
>> students up through the mid-1980s.
>> -Stores, offices, planes, trains...you could smoke just about anywhere.
>> -Any kid with a note from a parent could buy smokes at the corner store.
>> (Gee, I wonder if some of those notes were forged?)
>> ...and so forth. I think we've gone a bit overboard with a few smoking
>> restrictions, but overall I'd say we've made a huge step in the right
>> direction.
>> John L.
> I remember David Brinkley talking about when he first came to Washington
> as a reporter in the 1930s. Press conferences were much more informal than
> they are now. Reporters would crowd into the Oval Office and everybody,
> including FDR would be smoking. The reporters would drops ashes on the
> rug.
> You must have had a more liberal high school than I went to in the 1960s.
> We still had to sneak our smokes in the boys room with a lookout for the
> teacher making the rounds to catch us.
> I think banning smoking on airplanes was a good idea, but as you say, it
> went way overboard. It is absurd to see smokers shivering outside their
> office buildings in the winter during their smoke break because employers
> are not even allowed to provide an indoor smoker's room. You'd think that
> the Taliban had taken over when bars aren't even allowed to decide whether
> they want to allow their clientele to smoke.
Louis Lapham smokes in his office down the (short) hall from The Nation he effluvium pervades the corridor. I'm sure we possess the technology, however, to produce truly smoke-proof rooms. So why not indeed? I guess you'd have to pump in the (minimal?) oxygen these people still need.
I used to smoke a pack a day, for a couple years in my early 20s. It was nothing but a habit, though not nearly as expensive as it is today. I never felt so free as the day I finally really quit (after many false attempts). Some years later I would, out of sheer boredom, occasionally light up an unfinished Camel filterless from an ashtray in a newspaper office where I was typesetting. Even if I had only a couple puffs, when I woke up the next day, my head would feel like it was filled with concrete. Second-hand smoke has a similar effect on me. I sometimes wish I had a gas mask while climbing the five flights to my apartment. I may be more sensitive to cigarette smoke than some, but it's a scientific fact that the fleeting positive effects of the first few puffs of the day (on blood flow and breathing) are the body's instinctive reaction against the poison, usually overcome before that butt is snuffed. Only nicotine addiction keeps folks lighting up.
Which is what the cigarette companies have always banked on.
How ironic that to some people the cigarette dangling from their lips is thought of as a badge of freedom. Rebel Without a Cause indeed.
I'd say the laws are as sensible and non-ideological as those that banned lead-based paint. But the law quite aside, smokers are increasingly out-numbered in today's society. A profitable business will cater to as many people as possible.
> On Apr 30, 10:47 pm, Ace Kefford<bglobe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 30, 5:29 pm, bigdog<jecorbett1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers<hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>>>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>>>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>>>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>>>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>>>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>>>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>>>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>>>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>>>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>>> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
>>> That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
>>> only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
>>> then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
>>> Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
>>> and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
>>> Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
>>> and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
>>> When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
>>> tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
>>> remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
>>> during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
>>> final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
>>> Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
>>> on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and their
>>> wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently.
>>> Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do their
>>> smoking away from the cameras.
>> Bigdog, it wasn't "political correctness" that changed the perspective on
>> smoking. You seem old enough to remember the commercial with Hamilton
>> Burger of Perry Mason fame explaining how cigarettes had led to his
>> imminent death. This was WAY before that catch-phrase of "political
>> correctness" came in. (Was it Yul Brenner who did one too?)
>> As we later learned the cigarette situation actually WAS one of those
>> long-running conspiracies. It took a whistle-blower to finally convince
>> the hold-outs of what the cig companies knew all along.
>> My mother smoked through the pregnancies with me and my siblings and
>> finally quit. Lots of other ordinary people did it, and it had NOTHING to
>> do with the dodge of labeling it "political correctness." It had to do
>> with realizing this was a product that killed you.
>> (For what it's worth, I'm not coming from any position of superiority or
>> enlightenment on this. I drink too much and no doubt am killing myself
>> with that drug. So be it. But it really bugs me how people now jump too
>> easily to the "political correctness" label.)
>> OK, that's enough on that.
> I don't ever remember a time when people didn't know cigarette smoking was
> bad for your health.
Then why were the tobacco companies spending so much money, literally for decades, trying to foster the notion that cigarettes were harmless, even good for people, if nobody was ever fooled?
What a conspiracy that was. As everybody knows, there were a lot of deniers concerning the real medical evidence, and there were plenty of fake "scientific" studies funded by tobacco companies to back them up.
But of course people suspected. How could they (cough, cough) not have?!
The campaign to deny the obvious itself makes that clear.
That's exactly why Big Tobacco had to pull out all the stops with their Big Lie campaign.
But good for you if you never bought the propaganda!
You smoke for your own good reasons.
(And you can quit any time, right?)
> The term coffin nails predated the Surgeon General's
> warning being placed on the cigarettes. People who chose to smoke (my
> mother was one) did so knowing the risks because they enjoyed it. It used
> to be considered a person's right to make such choices. People could
> smoke, drink, and eat whatever they chose and accept the consequences of
> their choices. Now we have the PC police trying to mandate that people
> make what the deem to be healthy choices. Nobody is getting out of here
> alive.
Indeed.
And you could live in a perfectly healthy way and still die in some excruciatingly painful and gruesome manner.
Still, I think it's not unwise to control what one can in life and consider the odds.
> Something is going to kill all of us. I prefer to make my own
> choice and not have it dictated to me by Michelle Obama.
And exactly how, pray tell, is Michelle Obama dictating any choice to you?
How are the "PC police" mandating that you, or anybody, "make what they deem to be healthy choices"?
I really don't know what you're referring to. Perhaps the requirement to obtain health insurance. Is that it? What else?
>I'd say the laws are as sensible and non-ideological as those that banned >lead-based paint. But the law quite aside, smokers are increasingly >out-numbered in today's society. A profitable business will cater to as >many people as possible.
Why shouldn't a business (a bar, say) cater to smokers if it wants to?
Do you find it odd that a pot smoking leftist like yourself wants to
dictate *other* people's lifestyles?
> On May 1, 6:20 pm, Card53<Car...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 3:46:43 PM UTC-5, Clubking01 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:42:15 PM UTC-5, Humphrey Maltravers wrote:
>>>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>>>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>>>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>>>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>>>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>>>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>>>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>>>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>>>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>>>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>>> Tobacco companies became masters at targeting a group. During World War
>>> II, soldiers were issued free cigarettes, the result being millions of
>>> nicotine-addicted G.I.s returning home after the war. Their
>>> girlfriends/wives picked up the habit, and this was part of the reason why
>>> smoking was so prevalent during the 1950’s and early 1960’s before the
>>> TV/Radio ban.
>>> Before the ban, Cigarettes were big business in TV and, as many of you
>>> pointed out, people smoked on TV all of the time. Cigarette companies
>>> sponsored 55 network TV shows as late as 1963, and their ad buys accounted
>>> for 10% of all TV revenue. Many of their sponsorships then targeted
>>> teenagers who, in some cases, made up as much as 30% of a
>>> cigarette-sponsored program's viewership. With their parents puffing away
>>> and images of smoking being cool, the tobacco companies sure knew how to
>>> develop to a whole new generation of smokers.
>>> With regard to the JFK assassination TV footage, it is Interesting to note
>>> that such on-air people as Frank McGee and Bill Ryan on NBC, and Jay
>>> Watson and Bob Walker on WFAA, can be seen either holding cigarettes,
>>> puffing on them, or sitting within a stream of smoke from a hidden
>>> ashtray, at various times throughout the coverage that weekend.
>> I teach speech and writing at a local junior college, and we spend some
>> time in my classes on the art of persuasion. We look at how advertisers,
>> politicians, persuasive speakers, et al, employ similar techniques to
>> convince people to buy their products or ideas. My students always enjoy
>> when I do a PowerPoint presentation of old-time advertising, especially
>> the cigarette ads. I usually mention the radical changes in society with
>> regards to smoking, and how things have changed since I was in college.
>> Among the things they're amazed to learn:
>> -Several cigarette ads featured endorsements by doctors. ("Soothes nerves!
>> Comforts the throat! You'll cough less!")
>> -When I was in college in the '70s, it was not uncommon for students and
>> instructors to smoke in the classroom.
>> -Virtually the only places where you'd find a "No Smoking" sign were
>> around flammable materials.
>> -Many high schools had outdoor smoking "lounges" for junior and senior
>> students up through the mid-1980s.
>> -Stores, offices, planes, trains...you could smoke just about anywhere.
>> -Any kid with a note from a parent could buy smokes at the corner store.
>> (Gee, I wonder if some of those notes were forged?)
>> ...and so forth. I think we've gone a bit overboard with a few smoking
>> restrictions, but overall I'd say we've made a huge step in the right
>> direction.
>> John L.
> I remember David Brinkley talking about when he first came to Washington
> as a reporter in the 1930s. Press conferences were much more informal than
> they are now. Reporters would crowd into the Oval Office and everybody,
> including FDR would be smoking. The reporters would drops ashes on the
> rug.
> You must have had a more liberal high school than I went to in the 1960s.
> We still had to sneak our smokes in the boys room with a lookout for the
> teacher making the rounds to catch us.
> I think banning smoking on airplanes was a good idea, but as you say, it
> went way overboard. It is absurd to see smokers shivering outside their
> office buildings in the winter during their smoke break because employers
> are not even allowed to provide an indoor smoker's room. You'd think that
> the Taliban had taken over when bars aren't even allowed to decide whether
> they want to allow their clientele to smoke.
I live in a non-smoking housing complex and it's fun to see the women rush out in a snowstorm and smoke a cigarette for 30 seconds and then rush back in.
> On Apr 30, 10:47 pm, Ace Kefford<bglobe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 30, 5:29 pm, bigdog<jecorbett1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Apr 28, 10:42 pm, Humphrey Maltravers<hmaltrav...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
>>>> Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
>>>> experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
>>>> version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
>>>> the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
>>>> day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
>>>> Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
>>>> was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
>>>> Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
>>>> Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
>>>> Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
>>>> puffed away on cigarettes in public.
>>> At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
>>> That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
>>> only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
>>> then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
>>> Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
>>> and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
>>> Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
>>> and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
>>> When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
>>> tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
>>> remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
>>> during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
>>> final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
>>> Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
>>> on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away. Politicians (and their
>>> wives) have always smoked. Even Obama smoked until fairly recently.
>>> Politicians are much more conscious of public perception, so they do their
>>> smoking away from the cameras.
>> Bigdog, it wasn't "political correctness" that changed the perspective on
>> smoking. You seem old enough to remember the commercial with Hamilton
>> Burger of Perry Mason fame explaining how cigarettes had led to his
>> imminent death. This was WAY before that catch-phrase of "political
>> correctness" came in. (Was it Yul Brenner who did one too?)
>> As we later learned the cigarette situation actually WAS one of those
>> long-running conspiracies. It took a whistle-blower to finally convince
>> the hold-outs of what the cig companies knew all along.
>> My mother smoked through the pregnancies with me and my siblings and
>> finally quit. Lots of other ordinary people did it, and it had NOTHING to
>> do with the dodge of labeling it "political correctness." It had to do
>> with realizing this was a product that killed you.
>> (For what it's worth, I'm not coming from any position of superiority or
>> enlightenment on this. I drink too much and no doubt am killing myself
>> with that drug. So be it. But it really bugs me how people now jump too
>> easily to the "political correctness" label.)
>> OK, that's enough on that.
> I don't ever remember a time when people didn't know cigarette smoking was
> bad for your health. The term coffin nails predated the Surgeon General's
> warning being placed on the cigarettes. People who chose to smoke (my
> mother was one) did so knowing the risks because they enjoyed it. It used
> to be considered a person's right to make such choices. People could
> smoke, drink, and eat whatever they chose and accept the consequences of
> their choices. Now we have the PC police trying to mandate that people
> make what the deem to be healthy choices. Nobody is getting out of here
> alive. Something is going to kill all of us. I prefer to make my own
> choice and not have it dictated to me by Michelle Obama.
Did Michelle Obama personally tell you not to smoke when you visited the White House? Would you feel better if it were Ronald Reagan who said it?
> > > I just finished reading Sam Kashner's highly illuminating article in
> > > Vanity Fair about the trials and tribulations William Manchester
> > > experienced dealing with Jackie, RFK, and Evan Thomas, over the final
> > > version of "Death of President." One detail that was to be excised from
> > > the final manuscript was the contents of the purse Jackie carried on the
> > > day of the assassination, in particular, reference to her cigarettes.
> > > Until reading that bit of information, I had no earthly idea that Jackie
> > > was a smoker. Talk about a well-kept secret.
> > > Along the same line, I had no idea Pat Nixon was a smoker, until watching
> > > Oliver Stone's "Nixon."
> > > Boy, times have significantly changed from the days when FDR merrily
> > > puffed away on cigarettes in public.
> > At one time people could smoke cigarettes and not be considered pariahs.
> > That was before political correctness took over. Cigarette smoking was not
> > only acceptable but popular. It would be hard to find a movie made back
> > then that was set in those times where someone wasn't smoking a cigarette.
> > Movie stars smoked. It was considered cool. Athletes smoked. Ted Willams
> > and Joe DiMaggio both endorsed cigarettes. There is an iconic picture of
> > Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer standing on the first tee at Augusta National
> > and both were smoking. Palmer did a cigarette commercial for Marlboro.
> > When Jack Nicklaus beat Palmer in a playoff to win the 1962 US Open, he
> > tapped in the final putt with a cigarette hanging from his lips. I
> > remember some football coaches from that era smoking one the sidelines
> > during the games. My last image of Hank Aaron as a ballplayer was in his
> > final year when he was mostly the designated hitter for the Milwaukee
> > Brewers and while his teammates were in the field, the TV camera zoomed in
> > on him as he was sitting on the bench puffing away.
Priceless, Dave. I'd seen the Mike Wallace commercial before. The Flintstones came to TV when I was a kid and I would rarely miss them, but I don't remember the commercial. I guess it's because cigarette commercials were so much a part of TV that there was nothing about the Flintstones endorsing a cigarette that would seem memorbable. Imagine what the PC police would be doing with that today.
PS. Mike Wallace's endorsement of Phillip Morris seems even more compelling now that he lived to the age of 93.
