Nut or Fruit?
jwrush
years who don't know the technical terms and medical descriptions of Oswald's
various mental disorders. I used the term "nut" in a 1982 newsletter, but
that was long before I bought a copy of the DSM IV, which lists all the
standard and well-known mental conditions and disorders that are recognized
by American psychiatrists and psychologists.
Now that I've studied the book, I would say that Oswald certainly fits the
category of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He had a tremendous ego, he
thought he knew better than anyone else about Marxism and international
politics, and he didn't seem to care who he harmed or used in his attempts
to do things that made him feel important. He used everyone he came in
contact with, including Soviet intelligence agencies, American intelligence
agencies, his wife, his friends, and other people he met.
I also think he suffered from what some doctors call one of the "OCD
spectrum" disorders. This doesn't mean he was a frequent "hand washer", but
he was an obsessive thinker, and he was obsessed with discussing and
promoting his own personal concept of "Marxism" and "Marxist revolution".
Also he was very compulsive and often did things, without thinking ahead of
time about the possible consequences of his actions. This is why he didn't
have an escape plan after he shot the President.
He was obsessed with joining the Marines early, then he was obsessed with
getting out of the Marines early. He was obsessed with going to live
permanently in the Soviet Union, then he became obsessed with getting out of
the Soviet Union as quickly as possible. He became obsessed with killing
General Walker, then when he missed the shot, he dropped that plan and he
became obsessed with getting into Cuba. He was obsessed in New Orleans with
getting some media coverage which he planned to use for his pro-Castro
"resume", then after he was humiliated by all the attacks against him during
the WDSU debate, he suddenly dropped his media-attention obsession.
When he was rejected by both Cuba and Russia in Mexico City, he returned to
Dallas and was upset and depressed, and he began to think of what to do
next. Then he read in the local newspaper that the President of the United
States was coming to town. That news started his final obsession.
I don't think he was "paranoid" in the normal sense of the word, so I don't
think he had paranoid delusions of persecution, but I do think he had
delusions of grandeur. For example, his writing out "press interview"
questions and answers during his voyage from Europe to America is an example
of him having a grandeur-delusion in which he day-dreamed that a lot of
reporters would be waiting for him in New York so they could interview him,
with him as the focus of attention of the New York and national news when he
arrived, whereas in reality no reporters were waiting for him when he
arrived in New York. He also had grandeur-fantasies in which he thought that
by building up a small pro-Castro resume in New Orleans, the Cubans at the
Embassy in Mexico City would realize his "great genius" as a pro-Castro
Marxist and would grant him a visa to go to Cuba. But he actually had no
perspective of reality about how the Cubans would naturally react when a
total stranger walked into their Embassy in Mexico City, and he got mad at
the Cubans for rejecting him and not recognizing his "great genius," even
though the Cubans, by anyone's standards, did exactly the right thing by
rejecting him.
He also planned to go to Cuba with no money and no prospect of a job in
Cuba. He evidently thought he would be welcomed with open arms and given a
job and free money (such as what had happened to him in Russia when he
pulled his "wrist scraping" stunt). I don't know what kind of stunt he
thought of pulling when he got to Cuba, but my opinion is that Castro's
people would have either put him to work in a cane field as a common laborer
(which he would have not liked at all) or they would have thrown him into
prison as being a possible spy, or they would have put him on the next plane
back to Mexico City. Of course the Cubans already knew what to do with a
crackpot like Oswald, and that was to not grant him a visa in the first
place.
Gary Combs
Rush,
Interesting post. But, you ignor that it has been "proven" that an
imposter was at work in the Mexico City affair through top secret photos.
gc
jeffersonm
I agree that Oswald's efforts to get media coverage in New Orleans are
noteworthy. I was unaware until quite recently of his unsuccessful
efforts to convince the States-Item to cover his FPCC leafletting
activities.
Rockett Crawford
"jwrush" <jwr...@advantas.net> wrote in message
news:42fc...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> I think the "nut" term is simply a slang expression used by people for
many
> years who don't know the technical terms and medical descriptions of
Oswald's
> various mental disorders. I used the term "nut" in a 1982 newsletter, but
> that was long before I bought a copy of the DSM IV, which lists all the
> standard and well-known mental conditions and disorders that are
recognized
> by American psychiatrists and psychologists.
I agree. I think Oswald was somewhat disfunctional, delusional, and violent,
but also in some ways he was very clever. If he hadn't had a tendency
towards
assassination, he may have lived out his life like scores of other people
that
have problems, but are able to function in society?
> Now that I've studied the book, I would say that Oswald certainly fits the
> category of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He had a tremendous ego, he
> thought he knew better than anyone else about Marxism and international
> politics, and he didn't seem to care who he harmed or used in his attempts
> to do things that made him feel important. He used everyone he came in
> contact with, including Soviet intelligence agencies, American
intelligence
> agencies, his wife, his friends, and other people he met.
I agree about the Narcissism. I've seen it estimated that 10% of
American males show some symptoms of the disorder. Oswald
however, seems to show all the symptoms, IMO.
Oswald also kept his "historic" diary, apparently in anticipation
of going down in history.
> He also had grandeur-fantasies in which he thought that
> by building up a small pro-Castro resume in New Orleans, the Cubans at the
> Embassy in Mexico City would realize his "great genius" as a pro-Castro
> Marxist and would grant him a visa to go to Cuba. But he actually had no
> perspective of reality about how the Cubans would naturally react when a
> total stranger walked into their Embassy in Mexico City, and he got mad at
> the Cubans for rejecting him and not recognizing his "great genius," even
> though the Cubans, by anyone's standards, did exactly the right thing by
> rejecting him.
>
>
>
> He also planned to go to Cuba with no money and no prospect of a job in
> Cuba. He evidently thought he would be welcomed with open arms and given a
> job and free money (such as what had happened to him in Russia when he
> pulled his "wrist scraping" stunt). I don't know what kind of stunt he
> thought of pulling when he got to Cuba, but my opinion is that Castro's
> people would have either put him to work in a cane field as a common
laborer
> (which he would have not liked at all) or they would have thrown him into
> prison as being a possible spy, or they would have put him on the next
plane
> back to Mexico City. Of course the Cubans already knew what to do with a
> crackpot like Oswald, and that was to not grant him a visa in the first
> place.
>
Good points. I think that if Oswald hadn't been killed by "Sparky," and he
had
gone to trial, I don't think he could have used the insanity defense
successfully.
Rockett
Canuck
Can you explain why Oswald's alleged mental illness didn't preclude him
from serving in the U.S. Marines for three years? As you know, he
scored well on initial aptitude tests and was approved for top secret
work at the Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan, requiring security
clearance. Oswald apparently had an above average I.Q. On the other
hand, Larry Crafard (real name Curtis LaVerne Craford) only lasted 14
months in the U.S. Army, which he joined after dropping out of
highschool in Oregon (I interviewed Curtis at his home in Dec. 2000;
he's the fellow who worked for Ruby and left Dallas in a hurry on Nov.
23, 1963). He was quite vague about why he was released when asked by
Hurbert and Griffin, but gave the impression it might have been related
to a mental disturbance.
Your description of Oswald sounds like 1963-64 media propaganda that
permeated magazines like LIFE, TIME, NEWSWEEK and SATURDAY EVENING
POST, amongst others, along with the WARREN REPORT itself.
Have you read my series "Priscilla & Lee: Before & After the
Assassination" available at: http://www.jfk-info.com/sitemap1.htm
(scroll down for title and my name)?
- Peter R. Whitmey
jwrush
"Gary Combs" <glcc...@chartertn.net> wrote in message
news:42fc...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>
My opinion about that is that the CIA screwed up the identity. The ugly old
chubby guy in the photos certainly wasn't Oswald.
Robert Harris
Isn't it strange that none of the professionals who examined him came to
those conclusions?
But you did get one thing right. He was indeed, "obsessive" - to the point
where he would commit suicide.
Give the guy the credit he was due. Right or wrong, he was willing to give
his life for what he believed in.
He couldn't go to Cuba and try to shoot Castro, who back then, was our
Osma Bin Laden. But he did the next best thing, which he had every reason
to believe, would put an end to Fidel and to communism in our hemisphere.
His allie - the exiles, were fully prepared and were claiming that Cuba
was behind the assassination, even before the President's corpse was cold.
Robert Harris
The JFK History Page
http://jfkhistory.com/
jwrush
"jeffersonm" <mor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123876519.7...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hi Jeff,
He apparently wanted "clippings", newspaper clippings that he could take
to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and show the people at the Embassy. TV
films wouldn't do him much good, since we didn't have VCRs back in those
days.
However, when he saw me filming him at the courthouse on Aug 12, he had a
very surprised look on his face. I think he probably just never thought of
calling the TV stations, since he was more print-media oriented and he
wanted some newspaper clippings.
Also, I think he enjoyed the TV and radio coverage very much, and as he
told Stuckey on Aug 17 he called the Times Picayune/Item right after the
Aug. 16 Trade Mart leafleting demanding to know why they didn't cover it.
So, while the TV reports were not as good as newspaper "clippings", he
liked the TV and radio coverage anyway, and I think he thought they might
attract the newspaper to him and his leafleting and then he would have his
"clippings."
But the newspaper continued to ignore him, and he had to use notes about
the TV and radio interviews in his Cuban resume.
I think he would have done more TV and radio stuff and more street
demonstrations (trying to get those clippings), but apparently he felt
very embarrassed about the debate. I think it was Marina in "Marina and
Lee" who said he felt defeated during the debate. Actually, I thought he
did quite well during the debate, but that's the last we ever heard of him
until Nov. 22.
jwrush
"Rockett Crawford" <cap...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:11fq4kc...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "jwrush" <jwr...@advantas.net> wrote in message
> news:42fc...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>> I think the "nut" term is simply a slang expression used by people for
> many
>> years who don't know the technical terms and medical descriptions of
> Oswald's
>> various mental disorders. I used the term "nut" in a 1982 newsletter, but
>> that was long before I bought a copy of the DSM IV, which lists all the
>> standard and well-known mental conditions and disorders that are
> recognized
>> by American psychiatrists and psychologists.
>
> I agree. I think Oswald was somewhat disfunctional, delusional, and
> violent,
> but also in some ways he was very clever. If he hadn't had a tendency
> towards
> assassination, he may have lived out his life like scores of other people
> that
> have problems, but are able to function in society?
I agree completely. If he had just not had that ability to kill with no
remorse, and a strong desire to kill in the name of his "revolution", he
could have even wound up in San Francisco in 1967 and become somewhat of a
locally famous anti-war protester. I thought he was a fairly good
articulate spokesman for Marxism and for Castro. I think he would have
been accepted within the San Francisco and Berkeley anti-war groups. But
it was the guns and the killing that did him in.
It's a little like the Charlie Manson case. There the guy had a commune
filled with young women who loved him! Then he went and ruined that setup
by having them kill people. Dang, what an idiot!
>
>> Now that I've studied the book, I would say that Oswald certainly fits
>> the
>> category of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He had a tremendous ego,
>> he
>> thought he knew better than anyone else about Marxism and international
>> politics, and he didn't seem to care who he harmed or used in his
>> attempts
>> to do things that made him feel important. He used everyone he came in
>> contact with, including Soviet intelligence agencies, American
> intelligence
>> agencies, his wife, his friends, and other people he met.
>
> I agree about the Narcissism. I've seen it estimated that 10% of
> American males show some symptoms of the disorder. Oswald
> however, seems to show all the symptoms, IMO.
Yep, some of us men are a bit Narcissistic.
Yep, some guys in the Marines with him said he often talked about doing
something important some day.
No, I don't think he could be legally classified as "insane". Those types
of disorders used to be called "neuroses". They are now generally called
"disorders" or "personality disorders". A person can function in life if
he can keep them under control.
Anthony Marsh
And you don't find in the least bit odd that the CIA could photograph
thousands of visitors to BOTH embassies, but ALL their cameras failed
ONLY when Oswald was present?
--
Anthony Marsh
The Puzzle Palace http://www.boston.quik.com/amarsh
Gerry Simone (W)
and he thought his brother was trying to be a big shot.
Another person interviewed said that Oswald was trying to be smart with
his interrogators.
But I think he was more so pissed off then being a smart alec.
As Peter Whitmey says, Oswald had an above average IQ, got clearance at a
high security installation, learned Russian which isn't easy to do. He
spoke lucidly when interviewed by reporters. His writings weren't off the
wall.
I think his mental problems were exaggerated.
If he was a narcissist, you'd think he'd refuse a job just filling orders
at the TSBD.
"jwrush" <jwr...@advantas.net> wrote in message
news:42fc...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Anthony Marsh
Just a couple of observations. Why should anyone's mental illness preclude
him from serving in the US Marines? They are nut country and breed some of
the wackiest people in the world. Look at how many infamous murderers have
been former Marines. And of course you should realize that the WC
defenders desperately need to make Oswald into a nut so that there can be
no possible motive.
> scored well on initial aptitude tests and was approved for top secret
> work at the Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan, requiring security
> clearance. Oswald apparently had an above average I.Q. On the other
> hand, Larry Crafard (real name Curtis LaVerne Craford) only lasted 14
> months in the U.S. Army, which he joined after dropping out of
> highschool in Oregon (I interviewed Curtis at his home in Dec. 2000;
> he's the fellow who worked for Ruby and left Dallas in a hurry on Nov.
> 23, 1963). He was quite vague about why he was released when asked by
> Hurbert and Griffin, but gave the impression it might have been related
> to a mental disturbance.
>
> Your description of Oswald sounds like 1963-64 media propaganda that
> permeated magazines like LIFE, TIME, NEWSWEEK and SATURDAY EVENING
> POST, amongst others, along with the WARREN REPORT itself.
>
> Have you read my series "Priscilla & Lee: Before & After the
> Assassination" available at: http://www.jfk-info.com/sitemap1.htm
> (scroll down for title and my name)?
> - Peter R. Whitmey
>
>
jwrush
"Canuck" <prwh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123883570.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
He was obsessed with being a Marine at that time. They like guys like that.
However, I doubt if they would have let him join in 1963.
As you know, he
> scored well on initial aptitude tests and was approved for top secret
> work at the Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan, requiring security
> clearance. Oswald apparently had an above average I.Q. On the other
> hand, Larry Crafard (real name Curtis LaVerne Craford) only lasted 14
> months in the U.S. Army, which he joined after dropping out of
> highschool in Oregon (I interviewed Curtis at his home in Dec. 2000;
> he's the fellow who worked for Ruby and left Dallas in a hurry on Nov.
> 23, 1963). He was quite vague about why he was released when asked by
> Hurbert and Griffin, but gave the impression it might have been related
> to a mental disturbance.
>
> Your description of Oswald sounds like 1963-64 media propaganda that
> permeated magazines like LIFE, TIME, NEWSWEEK and SATURDAY EVENING
> POST, amongst others, along with the WARREN REPORT itself.
The DSM IV wasn't out yet in 1963-64.
>
> Have you read my series "Priscilla & Lee: Before & After the
> Assassination" available at: http://www.jfk-info.com/sitemap1.htm
> (scroll down for title and my name)?
> - Peter R. Whitmey
No I haven't. Is it really good?
Dennis Frank
Let me answer for Russ, since I was in the Army and had a high level
security clearance. The tests that are given are around intelligence and
aptitude. There may be some that detect mental illness, but I don't
remember, it was a few years ago. Intelligence and mental illness are not
related. And there are many different levels of illness. It is not an
either/or proposition.
Some of the personality disorders that are being discussed, would not
preclude someone from serving in the military for three years, or 30
years. Some of the people I served with, scared me. I'm sure there were
many personality disorders. In some cases, they would do very well.
Having someone tell you what to do, and your responsibility is to obey,
without question. What I am surprised at is that LHO did not get into
more trouble than he did.
Dennis
"Canuck" <prwh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123883570.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
Rockett Crawford
"Gerry Simone (W)"
<addfornos...@addfornospambelmontconcreteaddfornospam.com> wrote in
message news:9KqdnaAiycp...@look.ca...
>
> If he was a narcissist, you'd think he'd refuse a job just filling orders
> at the TSBD.
It was the only job he could get. Narcissists have to eat.
Rockett Crawford
Rockett Crawford
>
> "Rockett Crawford" <cap...@airmail.net> wrote in message
> news:11fq4kc...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
>
> remorse, and a strong desire to kill in the name of his "revolution", he
> could have even wound up in San Francisco in 1967 and become somewhat of a
> locally famous anti-war protester. I thought he was a fairly good
> articulate spokesman for Marxism and for Castro. I think he would have
> been accepted within the San Francisco and Berkeley anti-war groups. But
> it was the guns and the killing that did him in.
>
> It's a little like the Charlie Manson case. There the guy had a commune
> filled with young women who loved him! Then he went and ruined that setup
> by having them kill people. Dang, what an idiot!
Agreed, I guess sex on demand with various young beautiful young women who
thought he was Jesus Christ just wasn't enough for Manson's ego? Same for
Jim Jones, Koresh, etc...
Rockett Crawford
Brandon Alexander
>I think the "nut" term is simply a slang expression used by people for many
>years who don't know the technical terms and medical descriptions of Oswald's
>various mental disorders. I used the term "nut" in a 1982 newsletter, but
>that was long before I bought a copy of the DSM IV, which lists all the
>standard and well-known mental conditions and disorders that are recognized
>by American psychiatrists and psychologists.
>
>
>
>Now that I've studied the book, I would say that Oswald certainly fits the
>category of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He had a tremendous ego, he
>thought he knew better than anyone else about Marxism and international
>politics, and he didn't seem to care who he harmed or used in his attempts
>to do things that made him feel important. He used everyone he came in
>contact with, including Soviet intelligence agencies, American intelligence
>agencies, his wife, his friends, and other people he met.
>
>
>
>I also think he suffered from what some doctors call one of the "OCD
>spectrum" disorders. This doesn't mean he was a frequent "hand washer", but
>he was an obsessive thinker, and he was obsessed with discussing and
>promoting his own personal concept of "Marxism" and "Marxist revolution".
>Also he was very compulsive and often did things, without thinking ahead of
>time about the possible consequences of his actions. This is why he didn't
>have an escape plan after he shot the President.
Rush,
I hate to sound critical because you are obviously on the right track.
But I think you're delving into an area that may be beyond our
expertise. It's natural. This psycho-analysis of Oswald is tempting.
The evidence militates against your assertion Oswald didn't think
ahead. Of course he did. He was actually, according to the evidence we
have, quite a meticulous planner. The anomoly is the Kenendy killing.
He didn't seem to have any plan of escape there.
If you need citations I'll provide them. But you seem to be
knowledgeable enough that you have them already or you can look them
up.
>He was obsessed with joining the Marines early, then he was obsessed with
>getting out of the Marines early. He was obsessed with going to live
>permanently in the Soviet Union, then he became obsessed with getting out of
>the Soviet Union as quickly as possible. He became obsessed with killing
>General Walker, then when he missed the shot, he dropped that plan and he
>became obsessed with getting into Cuba.
The evidence doesn't support that assertion. Actually, Oswald
apparently DID NOT drop his plan to kill Walker. One item I pointed
out to you last week was his attempt to get a rifle from Alba.
http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/html/WC_Vol10_0114b.htm
He also kept CE 133 and its brothers, the only things from his earlier
notebook he could not reproduce easily. In fact, logically, there
would be nothing to persuade Oswald from keeping his plan to kill
Walker. After his failed attempt nothing changed. The target remained.
His goal of going to Cuba as "Hunter of Fascists" remained. And,
Oswald was not captured for nor accused of the shooting. We know his
interest in Walker continued into October 1963, unless he was lying,
because he claimed to have attended a Walker rally that month.
>He was obsessed in New Orleans with
>getting some media coverage which he planned to use for his pro-Castro
>"resume", then after he was humiliated by all the attacks against him during
>the WDSU debate, he suddenly dropped his media-attention obsession.
>
>
>When he was rejected by both Cuba and Russia in Mexico City, he returned to
>Dallas and was upset and depressed, and he began to think of what to do
>next. Then he read in the local newspaper that the President of the United
>States was coming to town. That news started his final obsession.
>
Yeah, I've read that and I think the WC had some inclination that he
was "depressed."
I don't see it. Maybe he was the day of the assassination, but before
that he had gotten a new job, was happy with it apparently...it gave
him the kind of freedom he seemed to like, working alone with little
supervision. He had a child on the way, was trying to get a driver's
license, was planning for Marina to move to Dallas with him. That
doesn't sound like a depressed man to me. There's nothing I've read
from the people who knew him that leads me to conclude he was
depressed.
I'm with you there.
Al.
.
jwrush
"Anthony Marsh" <ama...@quik.com> wrote in message
news:_H9Le.288$286.71@trndny09...
> jwrush wrote:
>
>> "Gary Combs" <glcc...@chartertn.net> wrote in message
>> news:42fc...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>>
>>>Rush,
>>> Interesting post. But, you ignor that it has been "proven" that an
>>> imposter was at work in the Mexico City affair through top secret
>>> photos.
>>>
>>>gc
>>
>>
>> My opinion about that is that the CIA screwed up the identity. The ugly
>> old chubby guy in the photos certainly wasn't Oswald.
>
>
> And you don't find in the least bit odd that the CIA could photograph
> thousands of visitors to BOTH embassies, but ALL their cameras failed ONLY
> when Oswald was present?
Post the thousands of photos of visitors to both embassies and prove they
never made mistakes on other identities of other people. I think their
surveillance was sloppy.
jwrush
> Canuck wrote:
>> Can you explain why Oswald's alleged mental illness didn't preclude him
>> from serving in the U.S. Marines for three years? As you know, he
>
> Just a couple of observations. Why should anyone's mental illness preclude
> him from serving in the US Marines? They are nut country and breed some of
> the wackiest people in the world. Look at how many infamous murderers have
> been former Marines.
Excellent point.
>And of course you should realize that the WC defenders desperately need to
>make Oswald into a nut so that there can be no possible motive.
No, he had a motive. His motive was to have the Dallas right-wing community
take the blame because so many people were expecting the right-wing
community to do something to harm the President that day.
jwrush
"Robert Harris" <reha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42fd400c...@news20.forteinc.com...
>
> Isn't it strange that none of the professionals who examined him came to
> those conclusions?
You mean the doctors who examined him when he was 12 years old? I don't
think he was obsessed with Marxism when he was 12 and I don't think he would
have shot the president when he was 12.
>
> But you did get one thing right. He was indeed, "obsessive" - to the point
> where he would commit suicide.
"Suicide"? You mean like in Russia? Well look, this is the most common form
of fake suicide. The fakers cut the wrists a little but not deep enough to
sever the veins. Oswald pretended to try to commit suicide, but he did not
cut deep enough.
Steve
Tony wrote:
And of course you should realize that the WC
defenders desperately need to make Oswald into a nut so that there can
be
no possible motive.
Steve writes:
Wrong. No one on the "lone nutter" side has to "desperately" "make
Oswald into a nut", Tony. You conspiracy buffs have already succeeded
in doing that.
Anthony Marsh
I already have posted lots of photos of visitors on my Web site. I am
not going to post every photo that the CIA took. If you want to see them
all, file a FOIA request for ALL of them. The point is that the CIA did
take thousands of photos of all the other visitors and claims that the
all the cameras failed at BOTH sites ONLY for Oswald. What an amazing
coincidence.
jwrush
They apparently screwed up and didn't get a photo of Oswald, and they
probably have screwed up on failing to get pictures of hundreds of other
people at the Cuban and Russian Embassies in Mexico City. You seem to think
that the government never screws up at all and only pretends to screw up
when they need to pretend to screw up.
Anthony Marsh
No, the ONLY time it screwed up was for Oswald. Both embassies, ALL
cameras. What an amazing coincidence.
jwrush
Ok, so the CIA is playing games. Nothing new about that. There was plenty
of other evidence that Oswald visited the Embassies including information
given to the WC by the Embassies.
greg
his hearing defect in one ear and a history of inner ear problems.
Hearing requirements for military service: "The Dept. of Defense has minimal
fitness standards that must be met in order to enter military service.
"Waivers for hearing loss are not granted by USAF, although hearing loss may
be waived by other services on very rare occasion. Consideration for waiver
of hearing loss depends on the nature of the loss, severity of loss, and the
military job that is being sought by the applicant (e.g., someone with
hearing loss could not be a pilot, or work in jobs requiring acute hearing).
Typically, hearing loss is waived for difficult-to-fill professional
positions such as physician, nurse, lawyer, etc."
"Etc" could of course, include low-level intelligence work.
As for Johann's original point... I have posted over recent times on the
possibility that Oswald had Asperger's Syndrome. Though this was first
described in Europe in 1944, it was not recognised in the US for a number of
decades after that.
"Asperger's Disorder is a milder variant of Autistic Disorder. Both
Asperger's Disorder and Autistic Disorder are in fact subgroups of a larger
diagnostic category. This larger category is called either Autistic
Spectrum Disorders, mostly in European countries, or Pervasive Developmental
Disorders ("PDD"), in the United States. In Asperger's Disorder, affected
individuals are characterized by social isolation and eccentric behavior in
childhood. There are impairments in two-sided social interaction and
non-verbal communication. Though grammatical, their speech is peculiar due
to abnormalities of inflection and a repetitive pattern. Clumsiness is
prominent both in their articulation and gross motor behavior. They usually
have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more
age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French
Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or
history. The name "Asperger" comes from Hans Asperger, an Austrian
physician who first described the syndrome in 1944. An excellent
translation of Dr. Asperger's original paper is provided by Dr. Uta Frith in
her Autism and Asperger Syndrome."
Find out more here: http://www.aspergers.com/
"Asperger's syndrome can involve an intense and obsessive level of focus on
things of interest and is often characterized by special (and possibly
peculiar) gifts; one person might be obsessed with 1950s professional
wrestling, another with national anthems of African dictatorships, another
with building models out of matchsticks. Particularly common interests are
means of transport (for example trains), computers, and dinosaurs. These
interests are often coupled with an unusually high capacity to retain and
recall encyclopedic amounts of information about the favored subject.
In general, orderly things have appeal to individuals with Asperger's. When
these special interests coincide with a materially or socially useful task,
the individual with Asperger's can often lead a profitable life. The child
obsessed with naval architecture may grow up to be an accomplished
shipwright, for instance. In pursuit of these interests, the individual with
Asperger's often manifests extremely sophisticated reason, an almost
obsessive focus, and eidetic memory. Hans Asperger called his young patients
"little professors", based on the fact that his thirteen-year-old patients
had as comprehensive and nuanced an understanding of their field of interest
as university professors."
And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger's
Innate ability to learn foreign languages is often seen with AS:
For many Asperger's Syndrome children, intellectual functioning is not a
problem. They are able to meet such mental challenges as instantly
calculating square roots, learn foreign languages in amazingly short periods
of time or calculate dates in history with incredible accuracy. Their mental
abilities are so powerful that some people have termed them "Little
Professors".
http://autism.about.com/cs/tvfilmportrayals/a/littleprofesser.htm
And as shown here, it is often misdiagnosed as Narcissistic Personality
Disorder.
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html
As stated, AS was not recognised in the US when Lee was living in NYC.
However, individual doctors from Europe would have been aware of it. The
characteristics of the syndrome would have, imo, been seen as very useful in
a Cold War climate by various agencies.
I think it was these useful characteristics which got him into the USMC and
exempt from the usual hearing requiements.
greg
"Dennis Frank" <dfr...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5tdLe.4391$mb4...@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Martin Shackelford
get a photo of Oswald, and he was with a second man. That's the photo we
don't have.
Martin
samvaknin
You may find these of added interest:
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq57.html
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq45.html
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/9.html
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/npdglance.html
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/serialkillers.html
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq82.html
Take care.
Sam
Rockett Crawford
> >> probably have screwed up on failing to get pictures of hundreds of
other
> >> people at the Cuban and Russian Embassies in Mexico City. You seem to
> >> think that the government never screws up at all and only pretends to
> >> screw up when they need to pretend to screw up.
> >
> >
> > No, the ONLY time it screwed up was for Oswald. Both embassies, ALL
> > cameras. What an amazing coincidence.
>
> Ok, so the CIA is playing games. Nothing new about that. There was plenty
> of other evidence that Oswald visited the Embassies including information
> given to the WC by the Embassies.
>
Also Oswald's signature on a hotel registry down there was verified as his
handwriting.
Rockett Crawford
Rockett Crawford
"Curtin/Dobbs" <curtin...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2L2dnRJ43NV...@comcast.com...> news:42fd...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> out, in other words, the path not taken. IIRC,at one point he took his
> writings--not the "historic diary" writings, but his impressions of the
> Soviet Union--to a typist and might have been planning to have them
> published. Would that he had. Failing that, it also seems like it would
have
> been easy enough for him to hook up with an opportunistic publisher and
have
> his adventures embellished and ghost written. From my reading of the time
> period (I was six when President Kennedy was assassinated), I can readily
> imagine that something like this could have been successful for Oswald.
> Wealth, fame and establishing respect and credibility on the Left would
have
> been his rewards.
>
> So, for one reason or another, Oswald could not see how to do this (or
> something like it--Professor Oswald, anyone?). For those who see Oswald as
> President Kennedy's killer, his personal demons, shifting obsessions,
> particular personality quirks, etc.--one or more or all of the above--kept
> Oswald from capitalizing and building upon his colorful and active
> radical/left past. Or, for those who see Oswald as beholden to evil
> conspirators, "they" would never have let him do something like that.
>
> My two cents.
>
>
> ....David Wade
>
Interesting points. Oswald did have a perspective on the Soviet Union
that few people in the US had did during the cold war. I agree that if
he'd teamed up with a writer it might have been a commercial success?
Reading Oswald's radio interview, it appears to me that he was an
interesting speaker who could think well on his feet?
The mind almost reels with the "what ifs" in this case. If things had
gone just slightly different at so many junctures in Oswalds life, things
might have unfolded very differently in the 60s for the entire world?
Rockett Crawford
jwrush
> out, in other words, the path not taken. IIRC,at one point he took his
> writings--not the "historic diary" writings, but his impressions of the
> Soviet Union--to a typist and might have been planning to have them
> published. Would that he had. Failing that, it also seems like it would
> have been easy enough for him to hook up with an opportunistic publisher
> and have his adventures embellished and ghost written. From my reading of
> the time period (I was six when President Kennedy was assassinated), I can
> readily imagine that something like this could have been successful for
> Oswald. Wealth, fame and establishing respect and credibility on the Left
> would have been his rewards.
>
> So, for one reason or another, Oswald could not see how to do this (or
> something like it--Professor Oswald, anyone?). For those who see Oswald as
> President Kennedy's killer, his personal demons, shifting obsessions,
> particular personality quirks, etc.--one or more or all of the above--kept
> Oswald from capitalizing and building upon his colorful and active
> radical/left past. Or, for those who see Oswald as beholden to evil
> conspirators, "they" would never have let him do something like that.
>
> My two cents.
>
>
> ....David Wade
Very good, Dave.
My personal opinion is that Curtain should have tied up Dobbs every night
during that trip back to the village.
jwrush
"samvaknin" <pa...@unet.com.mk> wrote in message
news:1124022907.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> You may find these of added interest:
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq57.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq45.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/9.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/npdglance.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/serialkillers.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq82.html
>
> Take care.
>
> Sam
>
Thanks very much, Sam!
Rockett Crawford
"samvaknin" <pa...@unet.com.mk> wrote in message
news:1124022907.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> You may find these of added interest:
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq57.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq45.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/9.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/npdglance.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/serialkillers.html
>
> http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq82.html
>
> Take care.
>
> Sam
Thanks. These are very interesting.
Rockett Crawford
Russ Burr
> Peter:
>
> Let me answer for Russ, since I was in the Army and had a high level
> security clearance. The tests that are given are around intelligence and
> aptitude. There may be some that detect mental illness, but I don't
> remember, it was a few years ago. Intelligence and mental illness are not
> related. And there are many different levels of illness. It is not an
> either/or proposition.
>
> Some of the personality disorders that are being discussed, would not
> preclude someone from serving in the military for three years, or 30
> years. Some of the people I served with, scared me. I'm sure there were
> many personality disorders. In some cases, they would do very well.
> Having someone tell you what to do, and your responsibility is to obey,
> without question. What I am surprised at is that LHO did not get into
> more trouble than he did.
>
> Dennis
Dennis, In our correspondence in the past did you ever see Oswald as
being diagnosed as sufferring from a narcissistic personality disorder
or OCD? Didn't we agree that Oswald was diagnosed with an Antisocial
personality disorder with paranoid features?
Just curious.
Russ
Gary Combs
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:ddn0ha$h...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> Winston Scott, the CIA Mexico City station chief, wrote that they DID get
> a photo of Oswald, and he was with a second man. That's the photo we don't
> have.
>
> Martin
>
You are a known JFK researcher, and I do respectfully reply to your
post. Since this photo " we don't have" mean that nobody, even the federal
government, does not have, or possibly still part of the unreleased
"evidence"?
gc
jwrush
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:ddn0ha$h...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> a photo of Oswald, and he was with a second man. That's the photo we don't
> have.
>
> Martin
So which is it? Marsh says there is no such photo and you say there is.
Canuck
R. Whitmey
Martin Shackelford
embassy, but showed Oswald and another guy at a beach or something. The
photo was placed in Scott's safe, and was confiscated with other
materials after his death. Several other Mexico City station employees
mentioned an Oswald photo being placed in Scott's safe.
Martin
Rockett Crawford
> Why would Oswald want and enable Johnson to become President? - Peter
> R. Whitmey
That may have not been a concern with Oswald one way or the other.
Rockett Crawford
jwrush
> R. Whitmey
Johnson in office was temporary. The anti-American, anti-Conservative,
anti-Goverment "conspiracy" propaganda campaign that resulted from Oswald's
act has lasted 42 years. JFK and LBJ are both gone. Castro is still in
power. Oswald would have been very pleased.
Curtin/Dobbs
kind words. FYI to ALL: Before we switched computers a while back, I
maintained two newsgroup identities. One was under my name, David Wade, and
I used that for this JFK group and non-movie related groups. The other
identity, Curtin/Dobbs, I fashioned from the yin/yang characters from my
favorite film, _The Treasure of the Sierra Madre_, and I used this moniker
for rec.arts.past-films and other movie and entertainment related
newsgroups. I had always found it a hassle switching identities, and when we
got a new computer, I set up the newsgroups with just one identity. I still
sign my posts to this newsgroup with my real name, but the less dignified
(?) Curtin/Dobbs shows up as my newsgroup identity.
....David Wade
P.S. TRIVIA ALERT: John Huston, who directed _The Treasure of the Sierra
Madre_ ('48) also helmed, in the year following, _We Were Strangers_,
wherein John Garfield played an expat American who joins a group of violent,
Leftist revolutionaries in *CUBA*. Some surmise/speculate that this was one
of the "trigger" films that helped push Lee Harvey Oswald into expressing
himself through a violent, "political" act. Who knows.
>
>
Curtin/Dobbs
Especially if Gov. Connally was part of, or indeed, was the major element
of, LHO's equation.
....David Wade
>
> Rockett Crawford
>
>
>
Curtin/Dobbs
"Brandon Alexander" <bank...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3u4sf1d1878s8p0v8...@4ax.com...
> On 12 Aug 2005 12:46:25 -0400, "jwrush" <jwr...@advantas.net> wrote:
>
>>I think the "nut" term is simply a slang expression used by people for
>>many
>>years who don't know the technical terms and medical descriptions of
>>Oswald's
>>various mental disorders. I used the term "nut" in a 1982 newsletter, but
>>that was long before I bought a copy of the DSM IV, which lists all the
>>standard and well-known mental conditions and disorders that are
>>recognized
>>by American psychiatrists and psychologists.
>>
>>
>>
>>category of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He had a tremendous ego, he
>>thought he knew better than anyone else about Marxism and international
>>politics, and he didn't seem to care who he harmed or used in his attempts
>>to do things that made him feel important. He used everyone he came in
>>contact with, including Soviet intelligence agencies, American
>>intelligence
>>agencies, his wife, his friends, and other people he met.
>>
>>
>>
>>spectrum" disorders. This doesn't mean he was a frequent "hand washer",
>>but
>>he was an obsessive thinker, and he was obsessed with discussing and
>>promoting his own personal concept of "Marxism" and "Marxist revolution".
>>Also he was very compulsive and often did things, without thinking ahead
>>of
>>time about the possible consequences of his actions. This is why he didn't
>>have an escape plan after he shot the President.
>
>
> I hate to sound critical because you are obviously on the right track.
> But I think you're delving into an area that may be beyond our
> expertise. It's natural. This psycho-analysis of Oswald is tempting.
>
> The evidence militates against your assertion Oswald didn't think
> ahead. Of course he did. He was actually, according to the evidence we
> have, quite a meticulous planner. The anomoly is the Kenendy killing.
> He didn't seem to have any plan of escape there.
>
> If you need citations I'll provide them. But you seem to be
> knowledgeable enough that you have them already or you can look them
> up.
>
>
>>He was obsessed with joining the Marines early, then he was obsessed with
>>getting out of the Marines early. He was obsessed with going to live
>>permanently in the Soviet Union, then he became obsessed with getting out
>>of
>>the Soviet Union as quickly as possible. He became obsessed with killing
>>General Walker, then when he missed the shot, he dropped that plan and he
>>became obsessed with getting into Cuba.
>
> apparently DID NOT drop his plan to kill Walker. One item I pointed
> out to you last week was his attempt to get a rifle from Alba.
>
> http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/html/WC_Vol10_0114b.htm
>
> He also kept CE 133 and its brothers, the only things from his earlier
> notebook he could not reproduce easily. In fact, logically, there
> would be nothing to persuade Oswald from keeping his plan to kill
> Walker. After his failed attempt nothing changed. The target remained.
> His goal of going to Cuba as "Hunter of Fascists" remained. And,
> Oswald was not captured for nor accused of the shooting. We know his
> interest in Walker continued into October 1963, unless he was lying,
> because he claimed to have attended a Walker rally that month.
>
>>He was obsessed in New Orleans with
>>getting some media coverage which he planned to use for his pro-Castro
>>"resume", then after he was humiliated by all the attacks against him
>>during
>>the WDSU debate, he suddenly dropped his media-attention obsession.
>>
>>
>>When he was rejected by both Cuba and Russia in Mexico City, he returned
>>to
>>Dallas and was upset and depressed, and he began to think of what to do
>>next. Then he read in the local newspaper that the President of the United
>>States was coming to town. That news started his final obsession.
>>
> was "depressed."
>
> I don't see it. Maybe he was the day of the assassination, but before
> that he had gotten a new job, was happy with it apparently...it gave
> him the kind of freedom he seemed to like, working alone with little
> supervision. He had a child on the way, was trying to get a driver's
> license, was planning for Marina to move to Dallas with him. That
> doesn't sound like a depressed man to me. There's nothing I've read
> from the people who knew him that leads me to conclude he was
> depressed.
>
> Al.
>
FWIW, I would just like to add to the list of obsessive, violent and
leftist/political schemes that Lee Harvey Oswald hatched and then abandoned
was his plan to hijack a commercial airliner and take it to Cuba (_Live by
the Sword_, Russo, p.203). I remember Posner in his book facetiously
pointing out that conspiracy books almost always fail to mention this
episode of Oswald's life. Coffee, tea, or Cuba?
....David Wade
>
> .
>
Anthony Marsh
Marsh says what? All I said was that the CIA claimed that they never got
a photo of the real Oswald at either embassy. That does not mean that
they never got a photo of Oswald while he was in Mexico City.
Anthony Marsh
Sometimes the government does not even know what it has in its own
files. The CIA had assumed that all copies of the Inspector General's
report on the Castro plots had been destroyed. When the government
thought that it had destroyed all copies of the WC executive session,
they did not remember that there was a court reporter's tape.
When I requested a copy of a document that they gave to the Church
Committee, the CIA claimed that this document no longer exists.
Rockett Crawford
Respectfully, I'm not sure Gov. Connally figured in either?
I speculate that Oswald had more of a one dimensional reason
for killing JFK and probably didn't consider any of the political
effects of his crime?
Whatever the real reason was, I suspect it had more to do with
one of his grandious fantasies of raising his stature rather than much
of any real world consequences.
Just MHO.
take care,
Rockett Crawford
jwrush
> jwrush wrote:
>
>> "Martin Shackelford" <msh...@concentric.net> wrote in message
>> news:ddn0ha$h...@dispatch.concentric.net...
>>
>>>Winston Scott, the CIA Mexico City station chief, wrote that they DID get
>>>a photo of Oswald, and he was with a second man. That's the photo we
>>>don't have.
>>>
>>>Martin
>>
>>
>> So which is it? Marsh says there is no such photo and you say there is.
>
>
> Marsh says what? All I said was that the CIA claimed that they never got a
> photo of the real Oswald at either embassy. That does not mean that they
> never got a photo of Oswald while he was in Mexico City.
Right. As I said, the CIA could have been playing games. For example, they
might not have wanted the Russians and Cubans to know what building they
were working from with their cameras.
Peter Makres
....David Wade
This is a good one, along with the abandoned plan to shoot Nixon.
Peter
>
> .
>
jwrush
Yep, I'm a movie buff too. I've got a copy of that film around here
someplace. If I recall, Garfield was helping dig a tunnel so they could blow
up some Cuban leader.
Also, see "Suddenly" (Sanatra tries to shoot a President with a rifle and
telescopic sight), and also "The Tall Target" (in which a government agent
tries to track down a potential Lincoln assassin; the agent's name was John
Kennedy, played by Dick Powell).
I figure Dobbs went nuts after that bump on his head in the mine. You know,
I think that was a perfect cast. Every one in that film was perfectly for
their parts.
Canuck
Canuck wrote:
> Why would Oswald want and enable Johnson to become President? - Peter
> R. Whitmey
I'd be interested in Mr. Rush's response in particular? - Peter
Brandon Alexander
On 15 Aug 2005 16:22:51 -0400, "Curtin/Dobbs"
<curtin...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>
>FWIW, I would just like to add to the list of obsessive, violent and
>leftist/political schemes that Lee Harvey Oswald hatched and then abandoned
>was his plan to hijack a commercial airliner and take it to Cuba (_Live by
>the Sword_, Russo, p.203). I remember Posner in his book facetiously
>pointing out that conspiracy books almost always fail to mention this
>episode of Oswald's life. Coffee, tea, or Cuba?
>
>....David Wade
Yes. I don't recall that in Posner, but it's true. CT books are
notoriously selective when it comes to Oswald's obvious left-wing
bent. But they have to be to sell books.
Remember Ed Sullivan comedian (My name) Jose Jiminez? "This plane go
to Cuba, no?
Al.
.
Dennis Frank
You remember correctly. I think he is/was an antisocial personality
disorder with paranoid traits. The only evidence of OCD, that I could
think of, might be the "dry firing" of the rifle if it was done for some
reason besides practice. Stanton Samenow has done some good work around
criminal thinking and talks about a "zero state" which I think I saw with
LHO.
Do you think the title "Historic Dairy" is narcissistic? Maybe grandiose?
How much of his motivation was about becoming an "historic" person, or
being recognized for the great man he was, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I didn't find anyone who diagnosed him with OCD or narcissism. Have you?
Dennis
"Russ Burr" <rdc...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:42FF7D6D...@netscape.net...
Gary Combs
Thanks for your post. Just a picture of Oz in Mexico City would prove
nothing, for it could have been taken at a date not known. It could have
been taken at any time with the CIA putting whatever date they wanted on it.
(IMO)
gc
greg
with Marina. They need people who will fill their need for narcissistic
supply. Marina did the opposite - yet he apparently tried very hard to keep
the relationship.
Johann, your theory fails on that point alone.
If he suffered any type of disorder, it was Asperger's Syndrome.
greg
"Dennis Frank" <dfr...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kwcMe.8496$32....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Russ Burr
> Hey Russ:
>
> You remember correctly. I think he is/was an antisocial personality
> disorder with paranoid traits. The only evidence of OCD, that I could
> think of, might be the "dry firing" of the rifle if it was done for some
> reason besides practice. Stanton Samenow has done some good work around
> criminal thinking and talks about a "zero state" which I think I saw with
> LHO.
>
> Do you think the title "Historic Dairy" is narcissistic? Maybe grandiose?
Perhaps grandiose. Nothing more.
> How much of his motivation was about becoming an "historic" person, or
> being recognized for the great man he was, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I agree with that completely.
> I didn't find anyone who diagnosed him with OCD or narcissism. Have you?
A few posters.
Thanks for chiming in.
Regards,
Russ
jwrush
"greg" <magicREM...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
news:4301...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> Guys, someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder could not have stayed
> with Marina. They need people who will fill their need for narcissistic
> supply. Marina did the opposite - yet he apparently tried very hard to
> keep the relationship.
>
> Johann, your theory fails on that point alone.
In late '63 he was writing the Soviet Embassy in DC trying to make plans to
send here back to Russia. He lived apart from her in Dallas during the last
several months.
Rockett Crawford
> "greg" <magicREM...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
> news:4301...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> > Guys, someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder could not have
stayed
> > with Marina. They need people who will fill their need for narcissistic
> > supply. Marina did the opposite - yet he apparently tried very hard to
> > keep the relationship.
> >
> > Johann, your theory fails on that point alone.
I disagree. I think she was for the most part a Narcissistic
supply for Oswald. Marina's life revolved around Lee. Her
main concerned seemed to be whether Lee loved her or not
even when they lived apart.
Lee tried to control her by attempting to keep her from
learning English. Lee was also very critical of Marina and when
Marina was critical of him, he often responded with what
I think was narcisstic rage, sometimes even violently.
I think Oswald had a "false self" which desperately needed
validation in his world. Hence why was always looking for
Narcissistic supplies and encountering what's called a
"grandioustiy gap" when reality closed the door on him.
Here are some characteristics of Narcissists. I think Oswald
had many of these:
amoral/conscienceless
authoritarian
care only about appearances
contemptuous
critical of others
cruel
disappointing gift-givers
don't recognize own feelings
envious and competitive
feel entitled
flirtatious or seductive
grandiose
hard to have a good time with
hate to live alone
hyper-sensitive to criticism
impulsive
lack sense of humor
naive
passive
pessimistic
religious
secretive
self-contradictory
stingy
strange work habits
unusual eating habits
weird sense of time
Rockett Crawford
Anthony Marsh
> Mr. Marsh,
> Thanks for your post. Just a picture of Oz in Mexico City would prove
> nothing, for it could have been taken at a date not known. It could have
> been taken at any time with the CIA putting whatever date they wanted on it.
> (IMO)
>
I can't verify what picture of Oswald they had or who made it.
But if there was a photo of the real Oswald we can be reasonably sure
that it was taken when he was in Mexico City. There was no photo of
Oswald before he went to Mexico City and then Win Scott had a photo of
Oswald shortly after he went to Mexico City. I have my own theories
about what photos were taken and why some were made to disappear. I do
not believe the CIA lies that their cameras malfunctioned ONLY for
Oswald, unless he had some psychic ability to disable them. I think the
real Oswald did visit both embassies at least once. But I suspect that
the CIA impersonated him both in person and on the phone, trying to lure
the KGB into incriminating itself. I think the mastermind of the
"Mission Impossible" type of program was David Atlee Phillips.
> gc
>
> Anthony Marsh
> The Puzzle Palace http://www.boston.quik.com/amarsh
>
>
>
--
Anthony Marsh
> Hey Russ:
>
> You remember correctly. I think he is/was an antisocial personality
> disorder with paranoid traits. The only evidence of OCD, that I could
> think of, might be the "dry firing" of the rifle if it was done for some
> reason besides practice. Stanton Samenow has done some good work around
> criminal thinking and talks about a "zero state" which I think I saw with
> LHO.
>
OCD? Well, you should use the commonly employed crutch of the WC
defenders and seek the answer using Occam's Razor. Oswald was cheap. He
only bought one box of ammo, 20 rounds. He did not have the money to buy
hundreds of rounds of ammunition to practice with. Hence the dry firing
practice.
> Do you think the title "Historic Dairy" is narcissistic? Maybe grandiose?
> How much of his motivation was about becoming an "historic" person, or
> being recognized for the great man he was, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> I didn't find anyone who diagnosed him with OCD or narcissism. Have you?
>
Is OCD common with delusions of grandeur?
Curtin/Dobbs
>
> On 15 Aug 2005 16:22:51 -0400, "Curtin/Dobbs"
> <curtin...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>
>>FWIW, I would just like to add to the list of obsessive, violent and
>>leftist/political schemes that Lee Harvey Oswald hatched and then
>>abandoned
>>was his plan to hijack a commercial airliner and take it to Cuba (_Live by
>>the Sword_, Russo, p.203). I remember Posner in his book facetiously
>>pointing out that conspiracy books almost always fail to mention this
>>episode of Oswald's life. Coffee, tea, or Cuba?
>>
>>....David Wade
>
> Yes. I don't recall that in Posner, but it's true. CT books are
> notoriously selective when it comes to Oswald's obvious left-wing
> bent. But they have to be to sell books.
Are there any books that don't come off as either being presumptive of Lee
Harvey Oswald's guilt or his role as an over-his-head victim of a far
reaching, many-tentacled Right-wing conspiracy?
The presumptive tone and being "notoriously selective" infuses virtually
all the books I've read on the assassination, and I've read plenty! (too
many, for my wife's taste) Occasionally, one will come across a balanced
overview like Conover Hunt's 6th-floor book, _JFK for a New Generation_, but
it ends up leaving the armchair researcher hungry for something s/he didn't
already know. I guess I'm just hard to please.
Bugliosi, though a firm believer in Oswald's guilt, has claimed, IIRC, that
his books will not be "notoriously selective." Let's just say, I'm not
holding my breath. It would be interesting if someone like Patricia
Cornwell, who spent a couple million of her own money to try and solve the
relatively ancient Jack-the-Ripper case, would put her expertise,
reputation, and financial resources behind solving JFK's murder. Or, maybe
some hard-line Lefty millionaire who's not afraid of where the chips may
fall, could spearhead an independent investigation (calling Mr. Lifton).
My instincts lead me to believe that if someone goes in prepared to believe
that Lee Harvey Oswald may have been part of a conspiracy--that if the
blinders from either side are removed--then the truth will begin to gel more
firmly. Perhaps the House Committee has it right, afterall.
....David Wade
Anthony Marsh
Abandoned? Don't you remember that Marina said that she thwarted it by
locking Lee in the bathroom? You know, the door that doesn't have a lock?
> Peter
>
>
>>.
Anthony Marsh
Sure, but that's wishful thinking. The Cubans and Russians already knew
where the cameras were and had taken counter surveillance pictures. See
the HSCA analysis.
None of that applies to just the one case of the real Oswald. They
released the photos of the wrong Oswald. They cropped them so as to
pretend that the KGB could not use photogrammetric techniques to
determine where the camera was hidden.
Peter Makres
Peter Makres wrote:
Abandoned or thwarted, either way it shows Oswald's tendency to hatch
violent leftist schemes, also demonstrated by his attempt on Walker. But
if you'd like to debate on whether his plan was thwarted or abandoned,
Marina herself said that it wasn't actual physical force that prevented
him from carrying out an attempt on Nixon's life, and that she could not
have stopped him if he really wanted to go. (See WC Report, pp 175-176).
Dennis Frank
I am not familiar with the what you are referring to. What is the WC
crutch and Occam's Razor? I know Lee was cheap. He paid back his debts
quickly. OCD and delusions of grandeur are not linked, unless there is
something else going on such as antisocial personality disorder.
Delusions of grandeur and ASPD are linked however.
Thanks.
Dennis
"Anthony Marsh" <ama...@quik.com> wrote in message
news:z2pMe.399$Yb.127@trndny06...
Canuck
> >> getting out of the Marines early. He was obsessed with going to live
> >> permanently in the Soviet Union, then he became obsessed with getting out
> >> of
> >> the Soviet Union as quickly as possible. He became obsessed with killing
> >> General Walker, then when he missed the shot, he dropped that plan and he
> >> with
> >> getting some media coverage which he planned to use for his pro-Castro
> >> "resume", then after he was humiliated by all the attacks against him
> >> during
> >> the WDSU debate, he suddenly dropped his media-attention obsession.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> When he was rejected by both Cuba and Russia in Mexico City, he returned
> >> to
> >> Dallas and was upset and depressed, and he began to think of what to do
> >> next. Then he read in the local newspaper that the President of the
> >> United
> >> States was coming to town. That news started his final obsession.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > from serving in the U.S. Marines for three years?
>
> He was obsessed with being a Marine at that time. They like guys like that.
> However, I doubt if they would have let him join in 1963.
>
> As you know, he
> > scored well on initial aptitude tests and was approved for top secret
> > work at the Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan, requiring security
> > clearance. Oswald apparently had an above average I.Q. On the other
> > hand, Larry Crafard (real name Curtis LaVerne Craford) only lasted 14
> > months in the U.S. Army, which he joined after dropping out of
> > highschool in Oregon (I interviewed Curtis at his home in Dec. 2000;
> > he's the fellow who worked for Ruby and left Dallas in a hurry on Nov.
> > 23, 1963). He was quite vague about why he was released when asked by
> > Hurbert and Griffin, but gave the impression it might have been related
> > to a mental disturbance.
> >
> > Your description of Oswald sounds like 1963-64 media propaganda that
> > permeated magazines like LIFE, TIME, NEWSWEEK and SATURDAY EVENING
> > POST, amongst others, along with the WARREN REPORT itself.
>
> The DSM IV wasn't out yet in 1963-64.
>
> >
> > Have you read my series "Priscilla & Lee: Before & After the
> > Assassination" available at: http://www.jfk-info.com/sitemap1.htm
> > (scroll down for title and my name)?
> > - Peter R. Whitmey
>
> No I haven't. Is it really good?
It was cited in JFK: THE BOOK OF THE FILM by Jane Rusconi, who had read my
series in TTD/TFD, before it was available on the net. I have received a
lot of positive feedback from various readers/researchers, and it has over
16,000 hits so far. I guess it's up to you to read it and decide for
yourself. I originally wrote it as one 75-page manuscript (including what
later became "Did Oswald Come Back?"), having been asked to develop a
shorter piece of PJM by Michael Eddowes in London, England, who was
working on another book in his mid-80s in the late 1980s. However, he
passed away before completing his book, and I subsequently sent it to
Jerry Rose at TTD, who suggested breaking it down (I also had not included
footnotes originally, so had to spent a lot of time hunting down my
sources). BTW, I did send a copy of the manuscript to PJM, and she mailed
it back with a short note, obviously not pleased, although she didn't
actually indicate whether or not she read it. Had Oswald lived, I believe
it's likely PJM's revised article published in the DMN (and other Hearst
papers including the Boston Globe and Seattle Post-Intelligencer) would
have been sited by Oswald's attorney as an obvious example of prejudicial
reporting, which likely would have resulted in the trial being moved out
of Dallas.
- Peter R. Whitmey
Rockett Crawford
"Peter Makres" <pmak...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4302...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>
> Abandoned? Don't you remember that Marina said that she thwarted it by
> locking Lee in the bathroom? You know, the door that doesn't have a lock?
Why does that matter whether it had a lock? Bathroom locks attempt to
keep people out, not people in.
Marina braced her feet against a wall to hold Lee inside of the bathroom.
Rockett Crawford
Barb Junkkarinen
<cap...@airmail.net> wrote:
Hi Rockett. :-)
How exactly does one brace their feet against a wall OUTside of a
bathroom to hold someone INside of a bathroom?
Bathroom doors open in ... not out.
Barb :-)
>
>
>Rockett Crawford
>
>
>
Martin Shackelford
Strangers" was also recently released.
Martin
Rockett Crawford
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lim5g15bg731ndj4u...@4ax.com...
Hi Barb,
;^)
FWIW, I know for a fact that not all bathroom doors open
inwards. I'm sure you know that people in wheelchairs need
the door to open outwards? My mother's bathroom door
does so in her nursing home room.
In any case, she described holding Lee in the bathroom as a
"tug of war" so yes, it was obviously an inward opening door.
She doesn't say exactly what she meant by by bracing her
feet against the wall but I assume each of her feet were braced
against the wall on each side of the door and she was leaning
backwards holding the door knob.
She said she did it one time before and a few times afterwards
to try to avoid beatings from Lee.
take care,
Rockett :^)
Peter Makres
Hi Rockett. :-)
Barb :-)
>
>
>Rockett Crawford
>
>
>
Lock or no lock, door opening in or out, matters not. Point is, this is just
another example of Oswald's propensity to hatch this sort of scheme.
Peter
jwrush
They might have changed camera positions, releasing the wrong Oswald photos
to trick the Russians and Cubans. There might still be Oswald photos in the
CIA files.
Rockett Crawford
>
> >
> >
> Lock or no lock, door opening in or out, matters not. Point is, this is
just
> another example of Oswald's propensity to hatch this sort of scheme.
>
> Peter
>
Yes, that's right. This along with the Walker attempt shows that
Oswald was thinking in terms of assassination long before Kennedy.
Rockett Crawford
Anthony Marsh
Oh my God! What are you, some type of conspiracy monger?
You are accusing OUR CIA of withholding information about the JFK
assassination?
Anthony Marsh
Sure she did. For how many hours? For 2 days? What?
> Rockett Crawford
Anthony Marsh
> Hi Anthony:
>
> I am not familiar with the what you are referring to. What is the WC
> crutch and Occam's Razor? I know Lee was cheap. He paid back his debts
If you care to quote me accurately, I believe I said "WC defenders."
Those are the people who defend the Warren Commission (WC) conclusion
that Oswald was the lone nut assassin. A crutch is a device that someone
uses to prop up a weak argument. Occam's Razor is a mathematical maximum
that the simplest solution is most likely the correct solution. This is
fine for mathematics and sometimes physics. But WC defenders misuse it
to argue that the lone nut solution is ALWAYS the correct solution
because conspiracies are too complicated to work and/or remain undetected.
Rockett Crawford
> Rockett Crawford wrote:
>
> > "Peter Makres" <pmak...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:4302...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> >
> >>Abandoned? Don't you remember that Marina said that she thwarted it by
> >>locking Lee in the bathroom? You know, the door that doesn't have a lock?
> >
> >
> > Why does that matter whether it had a lock? Bathroom locks attempt to
> > keep people out, not people in.
> >
> > Marina braced her feet against a wall to hold Lee inside of the bathroom.
>
> Sure she did. For how many hours? For 2 days? What?
>
In Pricilla's book, Marina said that after a struggle, he agreed to slip
the pistol through the partially opened door to Marina and then she let
him out.
Rockett Crawford
greg
"jwrush" <jwr...@advantas.net> wrote in message
news:4302...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>
> "greg" <magicREM...@octa4.net.au> wrote in message
> news:4301...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>> Guys, someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder could not have
>> stayed with Marina. They need people who will fill their need for
>> narcissistic supply. Marina did the opposite - yet he apparently tried
>> very hard to keep the relationship.
>>
>> Johann, your theory fails on that point alone.
>
> In late '63 he was writing the Soviet Embassy in DC trying to make plans
> to send here back to Russia.
Yes. And apparently planning to rejoin her there.
He lived apart from her in Dallas during the last
> several months.
And tried to win her back.
Asperger's is often mistaken for NPD. And that is what has happened here.
NPD does not explain his ability to learn Russian so fast - Asperger's
does. NPD does not explain his ability to memorise the Marine Manual.
Asperger's does. NPD does not explain his Maggies Draws in the Marines.
Asperger's Does. NPD does not explain his sometimes odd accent. Asperger's
does. NPD does not explain what I have always considered his awkward, odd
posture in some photos. Asperger's does. NDP does not explain why Marina
would complain about his sexual prowesss. Asperger's Does. That's just
some examples.
greg
Canuck
when I was nine, which was so successful, I regained all my hearing in
my right ear, which was only 50% before the surgery. Presumably
Oswald's surgery had the same result.
-
Peter R. Whitmey
Canuck
letter from Russia re: the reduction in his honorable discharge. He also
would have learned that Connally's friend from Ft. Worth, Korth, replaced
Connally as Secretary of the Navy. As it turned out, Korth had
represented Marguerite in her 1948 divorce. Since Connally had also
supported Johnson for the Democratic nomination in 1960, and was, along
with Korth, a longtime colleague and friend, I would imagine Oswald had no
time for LBJ either. So, again, why would he want to enable Johnson to
finally become President by eliminating JFK? It doesn't make any sense to
me.
- Peter R. Whitmey
jwrush
> Dennis Frank wrote:
>
>> Hi Anthony:
>>
>> I am not familiar with the what you are referring to. What is the WC
>> crutch and Occam's Razor? I know Lee was cheap. He paid back his debts
>
> If you care to quote me accurately, I believe I said "WC defenders." Those
> are the people who defend the Warren Commission (WC) conclusion that
> Oswald was the lone nut assassin.
If Oswald was indeed the lone nut assassin, then no good investigator can
come to any other conclusion.
A crutch is a device that someone
> uses to prop up a weak argument. Occam's Razor is a mathematical maximum
> that the simplest solution is most likely the correct solution. This is
> fine for mathematics and sometimes physics. But WC defenders misuse it to
> argue that the lone nut solution is ALWAYS the correct solution because
> conspiracies are too complicated to work and/or remain undetected.
Lol, you conspiracy guys are funny. Oswald says, "I'm a Patsy!", and all
you guys yell, "Oswald was a Patsy!" Oswald says, "I didn't do it!", and
all you guys yell, "Oswald didn't do it!" Oswald says, "It's curtain rods
in my sack!" and all you guys yell, "It was curtain rods in his sack!"
Oswald said to Stuckey and Slatter, "I am a Marxist!", and all you guys
yell, "Oswald was NOT a Marxist!"
LOL!
Anthony Marsh
Where do you get all these nutty ideas from? Oswald also declared that
he didn't shoot anyone. Yet I am many other conspiracy believers do
agree that he shot at General Walker and killed Tippit.
Please cite for me where Oswald said, "It's curtain rods in my sack."
Dennis Frank
There must have been a post I missed. It looks like someone else posted,
but I can't see who, or when.
I wasn't quoting you, simply asking for clarification.
Thank you.
Dennis
"Anthony Marsh" <ama...@quik.com> wrote in message
news:5K4Ne.6733$zb.5685@trndny02...
tomnln
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message news:...
> Was it "Anti-American, anti-Conservative,anti-Government people that
> destroyed Evidence??> news:4300...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...>> news:1124063496....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Why would Oswald want and enable Johnson to become President? - Peter
>>> R. Whitmey
>>
>> Johnson in office was temporary. The anti-American, anti-Conservative,
>> anti-Goverment "conspiracy" propaganda campaign that resulted from
>> Oswald's act has lasted 42 years. JFK and LBJ are both gone. Castro is
>> still in power. Oswald would have been very pleased.
>>
>>
>
>