Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apartment
Anthony Marsh
JLeyd...@aol.com
> http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
A little background would be helpful, Tony. For example, when did she
make this sketch and where did you get it (her book)?
JGL
black...@aol.com
> http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
As I noted on another thread: Parts of it seem close. But it shows
counters where there were none, omits a room, and places the bedroom
in the wrong place.
Anthony Marsh
Don't ask me. I only upload whatever Martin sends me as a courtesy.
steve
it does not matter anyway, she didnt even get the sketch right. sounds
to me like she had been in a similar house and expected the inside to be
EXACTLY the same layout. the trouble is, while the outside of many houses
in new orleans are exact, every once in a while, there is a small
variation on the interrior. i am anxiously waiting for someone on Team
Judyth to somehow twist this into confirmation of Judyths nonsense.
JLeyd...@aol.com
Quite an endorsement of your site, Tony. You upload whatever people
send you
and never ask any questions. Geeesh!
JGL
tomnln
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RJ6dnWsj48Lcl__a...@comcast.com...
> JLeyd...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Dec 13, 12:19 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
>>
>> A little background would be helpful, Tony. For example, when did she
>> make this sketch and where did you get it (her book)?
>>
>> JGL
>>
>
> Don't ask me. I only upload whatever Martin sends me as a courtesy.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Shackelford
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0e5638f8-3745-4b24...@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"steve" <misled...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:62f33409-7623-453a...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
that more of Judyth's documentation be made available. Tony offered his
website for that purpose. I sent him copies of the documentation, which he
posted. Your comments are completely off-base.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bf9ee782-ca27-4e42...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Tbp8j.8157$hO4....@newsfe19.lga...
steve
wrote:
> Your speculations are always amusing, steve.
>
> Martin
>
whats amusing is your claim that she was correct in her diagram.
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Once again, you try to twist things out of context, Leyden. People asked
>that more of Judyth's documentation be made available. Tony offered his
>website for that purpose. I sent him copies of the documentation, which he
>posted. Your comments are completely off-base.
Something is only documentation if it actually, and factually,
documents a claim. Most of what you call documentation for Judyth you
would laugh out of town on any other issue.
Barb :-)
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"steve" <misled...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:699ce0c4-7cca-421c...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Lone
> http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
It would be helpful to know, if JVB recall any books in Ferries
apartment.
When Garrison was there in February 1967 he saw a "sea" of books from
the dining room to the living room at the walls and on the the floor.
Ferrie was a bookworm.
BTW
There is one thing where Garrisons and JVB memory fit: the smell of
mice in Ferries apartment. The smell was still there in 1967. (Found
in: ON THE TRAIL OF THE...)
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>
>Martin
You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
you?
Barb :-)
Anthony Marsh
Huh? You got a problem with English? Ok, then let me rephrase it.
I upload things as a courtesy that Martin sends me.
Anthony Marsh
Hmm. You seem to not understand the process of open research. I uploaded
Ken Rahn's paper for him. If someone sends me something and asks me to
upload it for him or her, I will be happy to do so. I don't endorse it or
have to agree with it. Ken has put a lot of my files and others on his Web
site.
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> I sent it to him. It's been on my computer for a long time.
>
> Martin
Well, that's the question I asked Tony: How long a time has it been in
your computer? You sure hate specificity, Shackelford. Everything is
fuzzed up. No wonder nobody believed this ridiculous fairy tale. You
really should have done some basic research.
JGL
steve
wrote:
> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>
> Martin
>
well then mabey you can post a link to something where you told
everyone that she incorrectly described Ferrie's apartment? i cant seem to
find it. i can however find posts of yours in which you claim she
described it, and others in which you talk about the diagram. none of
these posts mention she was wrong. tell the full story next time.
JLeyd...@aol.com
> Hmm. You seem to not understand the process of open research. I uploaded
> Ken Rahn's paper for him. If someone sends me something and asks me to
> upload it for him or her, I will be happy to do so. I don't endorse it or
> have to agree with it. Ken has put a lot of my files and others on his Web
> site.
What's Ken Rahn got to do with this? Trying to give your website a little
respectability? You sasy you don't believe 87% of the Judyth fable but you
upload any garbage Shackelford sends you. You need to toughen up your
standards.
JGL
Anthony Marsh
> On 16 Dec 2007 15:37:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>>
>> Martin
>
> You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
> How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
> you?
>
Are you claiming that the things Martin sent me which I put on my Web site
are fakes? Please document your claim so that I can delete those files.
How about the W-2?
Anthony Marsh
Correct, but no one ever actually saw the cages or the mice, did they?
Kinda hard for him to do his research without mice and the mice would
need cages.
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>> On 16 Dec 2007 15:37:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
>> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>
>> You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
>> How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
>> you?
>>
>
>Are you claiming that the things Martin sent me which I put on my Web site
>are fakes? Please document your claim so that I can delete those files.
>How about the W-2?
I'm not claiming her drawing is fake ... I have no doubt she drew it.
That doesn't make it documentation of her claim .... it merely
documents that she made a drawing that she SAYS was the layout of
Ferrie's apartment.
I could draw a floorplan of your house and use it as documentation
that I had been to your house. That would not document that I had been
to your house unless it can be verified as being accurate ... and as
long as there is no source other than personal experience for me to
know the floorplan.
This is news to a brilliant and exacting researcher like you?
As for the W-2 ... I don't know of ANYone who claims it is not
authentic .. certainly not I.
Find another nit to niggle, this one is silly.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
To Anthony's credit, he is always willing to upload documents, pics,
etc for people so an easy link can provided where all can see what is
being talked about. He isn't responsible for the accuracy of the
content ... but should post a disclaimer of sorts, imo.
Barb :-)
>
>JGL
steve
> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
> > On 16 Dec 2007 15:37:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
>
> >> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>
> >> Martin
>
> > You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
> > How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
> > you?
>
> Are you claiming that the things Martin sent me which I put on my Web site
> are fakes? Please document your claim so that I can delete those files.
> How about the W-2?
>
can you point to where someone said they were fakes? we are talking
about the diagram of Ferrie's apartment, which is not accurate. the
statement from Barb "how many other items you call documentation are
of unknown accuracy to you" is a question posed to Martin. she said
nothing about that heap of doo you put on your webpage that proves
nothing as far as Judyths assassination fantasy. no one has suggested
that stuff is "fake" we know he sent it to you, we know Judyth
produced that junk, that does not mean the documents are ACCURATE. a
fine example is the subject this thread is about. you know, that
diagram of Ferrie's apartment that Judyth got wrong. the one Martin
has been citing as "documentation" that Judyth had been in Ferries
apartment. as far as all that stuff you posted Tony, good job, its
craptacular! it proves nothing but she worked at reily, was a good
science student, lied about her "loyalty oath" and cant get a diagram
of Ferrie's apartment correct.
Martin Shackelford
in the bargain.
I have cited a long list of documentation that "actually, and factually"
document
a variety of things Judyth has said.
There is ample documentation that:
1) She had a number of years of background in cancer research.
2) She was an exceptional student in that regard.
3) She made use of mice in her cancer research.
4) She was invited to an American Cancer Society seminar.
5) She received an American Cancer Society scholarship.
6) She received a National Science Foundation grant.
7) She was provided with chemicals for her research by Walter Reed Army
Institute of Research.
8) She received a letter from a White House aide, Ralph Dungan, who was one
of the few privy to
the top-secret anti-Castro projects (per Gus Russo).
9) She was a popular student.
10) One of her friends was the son of a prominent anti-Castro figure.
11) She was the only student in 1961 invited to present a paper to the
Indiana Biological Association.
12) She was a published writer from the age of ten.
13) She was regarded as a talented artist.
14) She and Dr. Alton Ochsner were both focusing on melanoma in 1962.
15) In New Orleans, she was looking for an apartment near Ochsner Hospital.
16) In New Orleans, she was looking for a Med Tech or clerical job.
17) Dr. Mary Sherman was well-known as a cancer researcher.
18) A number of pieces of evidence link her to Lee Oswald:
a) mention of the affair to her sister and her best friend, confirmed
by both.
b) mention of the green glass and its connection to Oswald to her
children. Her son and
daughter have both confirmed knowing for years that their mother
knew Oswald.
c) Witnesses Anna Lewis and Mac McCullough.
d) A note and a letter written to Lee.
e) A book with marginal notes in Lee's handwriting.
f) Three friends of Marina who say Judyth knew things about Lee not in
the literature.
g) Their employment at Reily Co., starting on the same day.
h) Lee's past history of affairs.
i) Judyth was the first to link Oswald with U.S. Customs--further
support for this was
later provided by Joan Mellen and Bill Kelly.
j) Bill Kelly found a witness who confirmed Mac McCullough's account
of seeing
Oswald regularly in Lafayette Park, across from Banister's office.
k) Confirmation by witnesses of the film of Oswald with anti-Castro
people, seen by
Judyth in the possession of David Ferrie: Robert Tanenbaum, L.J.
Delsa, Robert
Groden, and an HSCA staffer named Jim (per Joe Biles, hardly a
Judyth supporter).
19) Judyth had several jobs as a journalist.
20) Judyth first wrote about her affair with Oswald in a series of letters
to her oldest son in 1998.
21) Matt Allison found a witness who supported the account of Anna Lewis
that Oswald frequented
Thompson's Restaurant, where she worked. Joan Mellen found several
others who also
confirmed this.
22) During an interview by Garrison's staff, David Ferrie joked about Oswald
dating a married woman.
23) Various researchers reporting material from their own research:
a) Someone fitting Judyth's description and connected to Ferrie.
b) A young woman in a white lab coat seen at Ferrie's home.
c) Ferrie collecting Christmas toys for Dr. Mary Sherman's Christmas
Toy Drive.
24) Correspondence indicating that "60 Minutes" found Judyth credible.
Judyth was also the subject of
a documentary film intended for the Discovery Channel--but never
completed.
25) Gus Russo found evidence of additional contacts between Oswald and
anti-Castro Cubans. Both
Marina and Adrian Alba told him Oswald was "often" in the company of
Cubans in New Orleans.
He also found evidence that Banister and Ferrie were involved in a
plot to kill Castro, and Ferrie
had CIA ties.
26) Documentation linking Judyth to Dr. Harold Diehl, American Cancer
Society representative.
27) Articles in the New Orleans Times-Picayune:
a) May 1: article on quickie Mexican divorces.
b) May 4: article about a staged street scuffle, which Judyth said
inspired the Bringuier incident.
28) The "Jaryo" envelope which caught Lee's attention.
29) Robert Baker correspondence, summer of 1963.
30) Documentation that Judyth's landlady at 1032 Marengo was Susie Hanover.
31) An FBI report linking Oswald and Ferrie in the summer of 1963.
32) Statement from a New Orleans resident recalling a break-in at the home
of a local doctor, who
was doing cancer research out of her home; live cancer cells were
among the items taken. The
doctor lived on St. Charles, where Dr. Sherman's apartment was.
33) A 1967 letter from Judyth talking about her ex-lover, referring to him
as "despised."
34) A statement from Judyth's eldest son saying there was no indication
prior to 1998 that Judyth
was showing any interest in the JFK assassination--no books, no
research.
35) Documentation of Judyth's study of Russian.
36) Correspondence from a member of the Marcello family reporting that
Oswald's affair that
summer was well known to them.
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mgp9m39innik9891h...@4ax.com...
Martin Shackelford
How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lgkbm35t8ik1v1r5b...@4ax.com...
Martin Shackelford
Tony agreed to put it on his website if I provided it to him, so I did.
To criticize Tony for doing what many here were demanding be done is
deeply disturbing.
But it is typical of the attack pack here. No matter what is done, it is
denounced.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad2b7786-ad44-48cd...@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
I'm not responsible for the accuracy of the content.
> Barb :-)
>> JGL
>
Anthony Marsh
> On 17 Dec 2007 22:01:14 -0500, Anthony Marsh
> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>>> On 16 Dec 2007 15:37:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
>>> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>> You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
>>> How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
>>> you?
>>>
>> Are you claiming that the things Martin sent me which I put on my Web site
>> are fakes? Please document your claim so that I can delete those files.
>> How about the W-2?
>
>
> I'm not claiming her drawing is fake ... I have no doubt she drew it.
> That doesn't make it documentation of her claim .... it merely
> documents that she made a drawing that she SAYS was the layout of
> Ferrie's apartment.
>
It doesn't mean she was accurate.
> I could draw a floorplan of your house and use it as documentation
> that I had been to your house. That would not document that I had been
You could? OK, I'll call your bluff. Please draw a floorplan and I will
upload it to my Web site for all to see. This should be a lot of fun!!
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>> On 17 Dec 2007 22:01:14 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>>>> On 16 Dec 2007 15:37:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
>>>> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>> You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
>>>> How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
>>>> you?
>>>>
>>> Are you claiming that the things Martin sent me which I put on my Web site
>>> are fakes? Please document your claim so that I can delete those files.
>>> How about the W-2?
>>
>>
>> I'm not claiming her drawing is fake ... I have no doubt she drew it.
>> That doesn't make it documentation of her claim .... it merely
>> documents that she made a drawing that she SAYS was the layout of
>> Ferrie's apartment.
>>
>
>It doesn't mean she was accurate.
That's what I said, Tony ... thus it is not documentation of anything.
>
>> I could draw a floorplan of your house and use it as documentation
>> that I had been to your house. That would not document that I had been
>
>You could? OK, I'll call your bluff. Please draw a floorplan and I will
>upload it to my Web site for all to see. This should be a lot of fun!!
You obviously miss the point. Maybe it would have been clear if you
had not interjected in the middle of what I was saying. :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
And thus it is not documentation of ANYthing.
That's the point, Martin.
And since you always lead with Judyth's memory problems, or giving her
a memory break for how many years have passed when it comes to things
pointed out as inaccurate, erroneous, in conflict with historical
fact, etc ... just why is it that when it's some details about
something that cannot be proven or disproven, all we hear from you is
about her amazing recall of even the smallest details?
It's so transparent, Martin.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Your cheap shot dismissive remarks add nothing to the debate, and mislead
>in the bargain.
Martin, I don't think you really ought to go there with who takes the
cake in making misleading statements. And all the claims of
documentation are among some real howlers.
My comment....
"Something is only documentation if it actually, and factually,
documents a claim. Most of what you call documentation for Judyth you
would laugh out of town on any other issue."
...stands...and is accurate. The list you provide again below rather
points that out quite well, imo.....by and large, it's a whole lot of
nuthin' as regards her claims of being Oswald's lover, working with
Ferrie and Sherman on a secret bioweapon to kill Castro and all the
claims woven over, under, around and through up to and including the
alleged plans she and Oswald had.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
Look up at my comment, Anthony .... READ the last sentence, for pete's
sake.
>
>> Barb :-)
>>> JGL
>>
Anthony Marsh
Nonsense. You don't understand the concept of open research. I do not
post only the things I agree with.
>
> JGL
Anthony Marsh
> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>
Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
James K. Olmstead
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:J7L9j.55338$eY.1...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> Your cheap shot dismissive remarks add nothing to the debate, and mislead
> in the bargain.
> I have cited a long list of documentation that "actually, and factually" document
> a variety of things Judyth has said.
> 7) She was provided with chemicals for her research by Walter Reed Army Institute of Research.
She was provided chemicals to treat mice sick from x ray exposure as a
"kid" in school, in response to questions she had asked. The chemicals
had NOTHING to do with any JFK related activities claimed and would have
been sent to any student who had posed the same question and showed the
same interest.
Any effort in linking WRIR and Baker beyond a high school project/question
is absurd and misleading, since the letter from WRIR is quite clear about
the purpose of the chemicals.
It's about time you dropped all efforts to link WRIR and Baker's Castro
Plot BS.
jko
steve
So, you are here to admit that it was YOU who was putting out false
information on this case. Way to go.
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Martin Shackelford wrote:
>> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>
>
>Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
Wow, you really need to slow down and actually comprehend what is
written, Anthony.
Anybody could draw a floorplan and claim it is of your apartment.
Obviously, it wouldn't be accurate unless they had actually been to
your apartment....so the drawing would document nothing unless it
could be verified.
You are alive ... you could easily debunk any such drawing.
Ferrie is dead. He can't.
Don't think tooo hard on this.
Barb Junkkarinen
<jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
AMEN! Same with Roswell. And the "Thanks, kid, be a good girl"
response drom Dungan. And .....
Barb :-)
>
>jko
>
>
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
You couldn't. You don;t agree with anything. <g>
>
>>
>> JGL
Lone
> Correct, but no one ever actually saw the cages or the mice, did they?
> Kinda hard for him to do his research without mice and the mice would
> need cages.
I suppose a man like Ferrie was intelligent enough, to eliminate such
traces, after the big event in Dallas. At the latest in 1964 when he
heard of the mysterious dead of a person involved in this cancer
research: Marry Sherman.
black...@aol.com
wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2007 00:04:11 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>
> >Martin Shackelford wrote:
> >> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
> >> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
> >> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
> >> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>
> >Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
> >seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
> >diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
> >Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>
> Wow, you really need to slow down and actually comprehend what is
> written, Anthony.
>
> Anybody could draw a floorplan and claim it is of your apartment.
> Obviously, it wouldn't be accurate unless they had actually been to
> your apartment....so the drawing would document nothing unless it
> could be verified.
>
> You are alive ... you could easily debunk any such drawing.
>
> Ferrie is dead. He can't.
Let me just clarify one point here:
Whomever drew this floor plan probably had some familiarity with the
layout of Ferrie's apartment, at the time it was drawn. My question is
WHEN it was drawn...and seen.
That having been said, the bedroom is in the wrong place and there is
a room missing. There is a doorway missing. There are counters
indicated where there were none. There are folding doors indicated
where there were none.
I visited the apartment in the early 90s, and noted that some changes
had been made since the time Ferrie lived there. This looks more like
the later than earlier apartment.
Anthony Marsh
> On 19 Dec 2007 00:04:11 -0500, Anthony Marsh
> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
>>> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>>> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>>> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>>> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>>
>> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>
> Wow, you really need to slow down and actually comprehend what is
> written, Anthony.
>
You claimed that you COULD draw a floorplan of my apartment. I called
your bluff. So, I asked you to go through with your claim. But you
can't. Because your point was specious.
> Anybody could draw a floorplan and claim it is of your apartment.
> Obviously, it wouldn't be accurate unless they had actually been to
> your apartment....so the drawing would document nothing unless it
> could be verified.
>
> You are alive ... you could easily debunk any such drawing.
>
> Ferrie is dead. He can't.
>
OTHER people who knew his apartment could.
Blackburst and others thing they can. YOU think they are right.
Anthony Marsh
As always you guys are always in attack mode. I didn't see anyone else
offering to host his materials. I believe in providing information on
the case. You would attack me no matter what I do, just for the fun of
attacking. If I had not uploaded them, you'd be here ranting about what
am I trying to hide by not uploading them. You'll always find something
to attack. It is your only tactic.
Barb Junkkarinen
<black...@aol.com> wrote:
Helpful ... and telling ... observation and knowledge.
Thanks,
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>> On 19 Dec 2007 00:04:11 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
>>>> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>>>> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>>>> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>>>> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>>>
>>> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>>> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>>> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>>> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>>
>> Wow, you really need to slow down and actually comprehend what is
>> written, Anthony.
>>
>
>You claimed that you COULD draw a floorplan of my apartment.
Go back to the original (or any subsequent reiteration...sigh) and try
reading for comprehension ... and context. The context of "could" was
physically, I COULD draw a floor plan (paper, pencil, ruler). And I
could claim it is a floorplan of your apartment.
> I called
>your bluff. So, I asked you to go through with your claim. But you
>can't. Because your point was specious.
In context, my point was valid; your inability to grasp it is your
problem, not mine, not anyone else's.
Find something at least somewhat valid to niggle at least ... I'm not
going to reply to any more of this nonsense.
Anthony Marsh
More attacks from Team McAdams. They are getting desperate.
polly brown
> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> > It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
> > How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
> > Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
> > assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>
> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>
It doesn't make any sense that Barb would try to quibble over accepting
Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apartment as evidence of Judyth having been
in the apartment.
Pamela McElwain-Brown
www.in-broad-daylight.com
steve
> steve wrote:
> > On Dec 19, 2:54 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 16, 10:25 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Hmm. You seem to not understand the process of open research. I uploaded
> >>>>> Ken Rahn's paper for him. If someone sends me something and asks me to
> >>>>> upload it for him or her, I will be happy to do so. I don't endorse it or
> >>>>> have to agree with it. Ken has put a lot of my files and others on his Web
> >>>>> site.
> >>>> What's Ken Rahn got to do with this? Trying to give your website a little
> >>>> respectability? You sasy you don't believe 87% of the Judyth fable but you
> >>>> upload any garbage Shackelford sends you. You need to toughen up your
> >>>> standards.
> >>> etc for people so an easy link can provided where all can see what is
> >>> being talked about. He isn't responsible for the accuracy of the
> >>> content ... but should post a disclaimer of sorts, imo.
> >> I'm not responsible for the accuracy of the content.
>
> > So, you are here to admit that it was YOU who was putting out false
> > information on this case. Way to go.
>
> As always you guys are always in attack mode. I didn't see anyone else
> offering to host his materials. I believe in providing information on
> the case. You would attack me no matter what I do, just for the fun of
> attacking. If I had not uploaded them, you'd be here ranting about what
> am I trying to hide by not uploading them. You'll always find something
>
> - Show quoted text -
actually i took that quote from you. funny how i give you a dose of your
own medication, and you dont seem to like it. your reaction sounds a lot
like something i would say when you pull this nonsense with EVERYONE. im
going to remember this quote so i can use it when you agrue for the sake
of arguing, and when you accuse people of saying things they never say. i
encourage everyone else that has to deal with Tony to do the same.
remember this quote and how much he hated the taste of his own medicine
Tony Marsh dec 20 2:44 am 2007
steve
>
> - Show quoted text -
and would you describe the house as a typical uptown house? in a
sense that there are many built exactly the same as Ferrie's was?
Anthony Marsh
You obviously miss the point. YOU made a claim. I called your bluff.
Proving that you can not back up your claims. Where is YOUR floorplan of
my abode?
Anthony Marsh
> On 19 Dec 2007 14:37:22 -0500, Anthony Marsh
> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>>> On 19 Dec 2007 00:04:11 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>>> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
>>>>> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>>>>> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>>>>> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>>>>> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>>>>
>>>> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>>>> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>>>> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>>>> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>>> Wow, you really need to slow down and actually comprehend what is
>>> written, Anthony.
>>>
>> You claimed that you COULD draw a floorplan of my apartment.
>
> Go back to the original (or any subsequent reiteration...sigh) and try
> reading for comprehension ... and context. The context of "could" was
> physically, I COULD draw a floor plan (paper, pencil, ruler). And I
> could claim it is a floorplan of your apartment.
>
You did not say that you wouldn't or that it was impossible. You said you
COULD. So do it. I called your bluff. Do it now. Today. And upload it
tomorrow. Then we'll compare its accuracy to Judyth's floorplan of
Ferrie's apartment. Where do I place my computer? Where do I place my bed?
The world is waiting for these important details.
>
>
>> I called
>> your bluff. So, I asked you to go through with your claim. But you
>> can't. Because your point was specious.
>
> In context, my point was valid; your inability to grasp it is your
> problem, not mine, not anyone else's.
>
Your point is specious. You made an apples and oranges comparison. You
made a claim. I called your bluff. You folded. You lost.
> Find something at least somewhat valid to niggle at least ... I'm not
> going to reply to any more of this nonsense.
>
We know you already threw in your hand, because you had diddly.
Anthony Marsh
In your expert opinion, could someone have simply made up that floorpan
out of whole cloth without ever having seen his apartment?
Dave Reitzes
That's exactly what I was wondering.
Dave
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> Your cheap shot dismissive remarks add nothing to the debate, and mislead
> in the bargain.
> I have cited a long list of documentation that "actually, and factually"
> document
> a variety of things Judyth has said.
Do you have any idea of how ridiculous this list is, Shackelford?
(No, I would guess you don't.) My favorite is No. 9: "She was as
popular student."
No wonder this thing crashed and burned. We owe you a debt of
gratitude for your part in this disaster.
JGL
> 1) She had a number of years of background in cancer research.
> 2) She was an exceptional student in that regard.
> 3) She made use of mice in her cancer research.
> 4) She was invited to an American Cancer Society seminar.
> 5) She received an American Cancer Society scholarship.
> 6) She received a National Science Foundation grant.
> 7) She was provided with chemicals for her research by Walter Reed Army
> Institute of Research.
> He also found evidence that Banister and Ferrie were involved in a
> "Barb Junkkarinen" <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:mgp9m39innik9891h...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On 15 Dec 2007 20:52:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
> > <msha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >>Once again, you try to twist things out of context, Leyden. People asked
> >>that more of Judyth's documentation be made available. Tony offered his
> >>website for that purpose. I sent him copies of the documentation, which he
> >>posted. Your comments are completely off-base.
>
> > Something is only documentation if it actually, and factually,
> > documents a claim. Most of what you call documentation for Judyth you
> > would laugh out of town on any other issue.
>
> > Barb :-)
>
> >>Martin
>
> >><JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>news:bf9ee782-ca27-4e42...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Dec 14, 12:35 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>> JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>> > On Dec 13, 12:19 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>> >>http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
>
> >>>> > A little background would be helpful, Tony. For example, when did
> >>>> > she
> >>>> > make this sketch and where did you get it (her book)?
>
> >>>> > JGL
>
> >>>> Don't ask me. I only upload whatever Martin sends me as a courtesy.
>
> >>> Quite an endorsement of your site, Tony. You upload whatever people
> >>> send you
> >>> and never ask any questions. Geeesh!
>
> >>> JGL- Hide quoted text -
Martin Shackelford
No one has EVER claimed a link to WRIR and the New Orleans project.
The materials for that project were, according to Judyth, supplied by Eli
Lilly, from their building a block from Reily.
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47687c1a$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Martin Shackelford
It seems that you ignored the much longer list I posted the other day.
Martin
"steve" <misled...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5f875313-aa46-4dbc...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 18, 10:01 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
>> > On 16 Dec 2007 15:37:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
>> > <msha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> I made no such claim, steve. Try to read for comprehension.
>>
>> >> Martin
>>
>> > You submitted it as part of her "documentation" for her claim, Martin.
>> > How many other items you call documentation are of unknown accuracy to
>> > you?
>>
>> Are you claiming that the things Martin sent me which I put on my Web
>> site
>> are fakes? Please document your claim so that I can delete those files.
>> How about the W-2?
>>
>
>
> can you point to where someone said they were fakes? we are talking
> about the diagram of Ferrie's apartment, which is not accurate. the
> statement from Barb "how many other items you call documentation are
> of unknown accuracy to you" is a question posed to Martin. she said
> nothing about that heap of doo you put on your webpage that proves
> nothing as far as Judyths assassination fantasy. no one has suggested
> that stuff is "fake" we know he sent it to you, we know Judyth
> produced that junk, that does not mean the documents are ACCURATE. a
> fine example is the subject this thread is about. you know, that
> diagram of Ferrie's apartment that Judyth got wrong. the one Martin
> has been citing as "documentation" that Judyth had been in Ferries
> apartment. as far as all that stuff you posted Tony, good job, its
> craptacular! it proves nothing but she worked at reily, was a good
> science student, lied about her "loyalty oath" and cant get a diagram
> of Ferrie's apartment correct.
>
black...@aol.com
> blackbu...@aol.com wrote:
> > Whomever drew this floor plan probably had some familiarity with the
> > layout of Ferrie's apartment, at the time it was drawn. My question is
> > WHEN it was drawn...and seen.
>
> > That having been said, the bedroom is in the wrong place and there is
> > a room missing. There is a doorway missing. There are counters
> > indicated where there were none. There are folding doors indicated
> > where there were none.
>
> > I visited the apartment in the early 90s, and noted that some changes
> > had been made since the time Ferrie lived there. This looks more like
> > the later than earlier apartment.
>
> In your expert opinion, could someone have simply made up that floorpan
> out of whole cloth without ever having seen his apartment?-
No.
James K. Olmstead
jko
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:jipaj.30998$lD6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
polly brown
> On Dec 13, 12:19 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
>
> As I noted on another thread: Parts of it seem close. But it shows
> counters where there were none, omits a room, and places the bedroom
> in the wrong place.
Have you posted a diagram of what you believe Ferrie's apartment
looked like in 63? In addition, since you were not there, could you
also cite your sources for the diagram?
Pamela McElwain-Brown
www.in-broad-daylight.com
Martin Shackelford
of
a top secret project.
As for the evidence that she and Lee were lovers, I've listed it here more
than once.
On the matter of Judyth and Oswald being lovers:
1) Her sister knew in 1964 that Judyth had a lover the previous summer. She
doesn't doubt Judyth's account.
2) Her children and best friend have known since 1980 that Judyth knew Lee
Oswald.
3) There is a love letter from that summer which, if you look at the
content, could not have been written to her husband.
4) Three people who have talked a lot with Marina Oswald indicated that
Judyth knew personal things about Oswald that weren't in the public record.
5) Robert Baker indicated he knew of nothing which would contradict what she
has said.
6) After watching "The Love Affair," Marina had no problem accepting it as
true.
7) Anna Lewis has verified that Judyth and Lee spent time together at
Thompson's Restaurant, and that they were socially involved around the
French Quarter.
8) Mac McCullough, whose parents owned a restaurant in the area, also
reported seeing Judyth and Lee together in Lafayette Park and around the
French Quarter.
9) Judyth was aware of information about Oswald that didn't appear in the
available record until Joan Mellen's book was published.
10) The only contact the two would ordinarily have had at work would be when
he came to the office area to punch the time clock--the rest of the time he
would have been in another part of the building--or next door at the
Crescent City garage--unless he was making a point of seeing her more often.
11) Judyth was a very attractive young woman in 1963, and Oswald had
previously had affairs--in Japan, in Russia, and possibly in Dallas, by some
accounts (a young Japanese musician)
Judyth said that Lee wanted a divorce from Marina. The Warren Commission
reported witness accounts that he was seen in a Mexican town known for its
quickie divorces (CE 2123)
Judyth and Joan Mellen both connect Oswald with U.S. Customs agents. As it
turns out, researcher Bill Kelly also interviewed a resident of New Orleans
who saw Oswald with Customs agents at the docks. Two others reported seeing
Oswald with unspecified Federal agents. Another of his interviewees was an
accountant who reported off-the-books cash payments being made by Reily to
Oswald. He believed that Oswald was paying off Customs agents for Reily.
Another witness described him as a money man around the racetrack. Several
people reported that Oswald was around the docks asking about imported fruit
and about fishing boats. Another witness saw Oswald at Lakefront Airport
talking with an associate of Mayor Morrison, and later saw Oswald at a
French Quarter hotel. A printer reported Oswald came to him to get some
anti-Castro flyers printed--asked if he might be confused about that, he
said no, he was sure they were against Castro. A local bellhop reported
often seeing Oswald around Lafayette Park, which supports what Mac
McCullough reported.
Judyth's son and daughter separately wrote accounts to me regarding the 1980
incident during which they learned that their mother had known Lee Oswald.
Judyth saved a St. Charles streetcar transfer from April 28, 1963. This was
shortly after she met Oswald, and the day he took her to see his father's
grave. Robert Baker was not yet in New Orleans. I wonder if anyone has an
alternative explanation for why she would have saved this streetcar
transfer. It wasn't the only one she got that year.
Martin
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7nqgm3djcspc4e87f...@4ax.com...
> On 18 Dec 2007 13:58:20 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>Your cheap shot dismissive remarks add nothing to the debate, and mislead
>>in the bargain.
>
> Martin, I don't think you really ought to go there with who takes the
> cake in making misleading statements. And all the claims of
> documentation are among some real howlers.
>
> My comment....
>
> "Something is only documentation if it actually, and factually,
> documents a claim. Most of what you call documentation for Judyth you
> would laugh out of town on any other issue."
>
> ...stands...and is accurate. The list you provide again below rather
> points that out quite well, imo.....by and large, it's a whole lot of
> nuthin' as regards her claims of being Oswald's lover, working with
> Ferrie and Sherman on a secret bioweapon to kill Castro and all the
> claims woven over, under, around and through up to and including the
> alleged plans she and Oswald had.
>
> Barb :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>>I have cited a long list of documentation that "actually, and factually"
>>document
>>a variety of things Judyth has said.
>>There is ample documentation that:
>>1) She had a number of years of background in cancer research.
>>2) She was an exceptional student in that regard.
>>3) She made use of mice in her cancer research.
>>4) She was invited to an American Cancer Society seminar.
>>5) She received an American Cancer Society scholarship.
>>6) She received a National Science Foundation grant.
>>7) She was provided with chemicals for her research by Walter Reed Army
>>Institute of Research.
>>"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:mgp9m39innik9891h...@4ax.com...
>>> On 15 Dec 2007 20:52:21 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
>>> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Once again, you try to twist things out of context, Leyden. People asked
>>>>that more of Judyth's documentation be made available. Tony offered his
>>>>website for that purpose. I sent him copies of the documentation, which
>>>>he
>>>>posted. Your comments are completely off-base.
>>>
>>> Something is only documentation if it actually, and factually,
>>> documents a claim. Most of what you call documentation for Judyth you
>>> would laugh out of town on any other issue.
>>>
>>> Barb :-)
>>>>
>>>>Martin
>>>>
>>>><JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:bf9ee782-ca27-4e42...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Dec 14, 12:35 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> > On Dec 13, 12:19 am, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>http://the-puzzle-palace.com/eFerrieApartment.jpg
>>>>>>
Martin Shackelford
Judyth-basher who had talked with a few of Judyth's former classmates
described her as "weird," and suggested that she was socially isolated. In
fact, she was a very popular young woman, as news articles attest. That
was the significance of the item--but you already knew that.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8c4ecb45-9a7f-44fe...@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
apartment. As far as I know, she had no opportunity to do so prior to the
time she originally sent me the diagram. Due to computer problems, I had
lost some images, including that one, and she re-sent it in 2003 at my
request. It was identical to an earlier printed copy.
Martin
<black...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4b5f8631-beb0-40ad...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
black...@aol.com
I have pictures taken there in 1963. I have many pictures taken there
in 1967. I visited there in 1992. I know several people who were
provably (by pictures, among other things) there in 1963.
Anthony Marsh
Barb claims that is what Judyth did.
Pamela McElwain-Brown
> More attacks from Team McAdams. They are getting desperate.
Indeed. All the frantic demands they are making are giving them away. :-0
Pamela McElwain-Brown
www.themagicflute.org
www.in-broad-daylight.com
JFK Assassination Presidential Limousine Documentary at Youtube:
http://youtube.com/profile?user=pamina58
My trade list at Bookins.Com:
http://www.bookins.com/rssreader/trade/1cz6c91cA/
http://yearofmozart2006.blogspot.com/
http://www.pipertothealternative.blogspot.com/
http://www.viennamystery.blogspot.com/ and
http://www.taowoofchu.blogspot.com/
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Martin, you can post these useless lists until the cows come home ...
sans substantiation, that holds up to scrutiny, even the very few
items that have a chance of showing something ... don't.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote me.... in full and in context.
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
For gawd's sake, Anthony. I COULD pick up a pencil and I COULD get a
piece of paper and I COULD draw a floorplan and then I COULD tell
people it was a floorplan of your apartment.
Like I said above ... go back to my original iteration and read
....more slowly perhaps ...and see if you can comprehend the point.
Try that now. Today. Then upload it. I challenge you to comprehend
what was actually said. Can you?
I doubt it.
Barb Junkkarinen
wrote:
>On Dec 18, 11:04 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
>> > It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>> > How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>> > Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>> > assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>
>> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>>
>
>It doesn't make any sense that Barb would try to quibble over accepting
>Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apar
Everything Anthony is going on and on about me and this stupid diagram
doesn't make sense. And, personally, I think that is his intention.
:-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
Try hooked on phonics, Anthony.
If that doesn't work for you and you still are unable to comprehend
what I actually said..and in context....
...then pound sand. :-)
Anthony Marsh
> On 19 Dec 2007 22:44:37 -0500, polly brown <pame...@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 18, 11:04 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
>>>> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>>>> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>>>> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>>>> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>>> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>>> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>>> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>>>
>> It doesn't make any sense that Barb would try to quibble over accepting
>> Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apar
>
> Everything Anthony is going on and on about me and this stupid diagram
> doesn't make sense. And, personally, I think that is his intention.
> :-)
>
You made a claim. I called your bluff. You folded. Don't say things you
can't back up.
black...@aol.com
wrote:
> When we visited New Orleans in 2000, it wasn't possible to enter Ferrie's
> apartment. As far as I know, she had no opportunity to do so prior to the
> time she originally sent me the diagram. Due to computer problems, I had
> lost some images, including that one, and she re-sent it in 2003 at my
> request. It was identical to an earlier printed copy.
>
> Martin
So it was made sometime between 2000 and 2003? And as far as you know,
she had not entered Ferrie's former apartment within or near that date
range?
Anthony Marsh
Then do it. Blackburst just said that he does not think that Judyth
could have drawn her floorplan from just her imagination.
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
You have demonstrated the inability to comprehend what was said and
the point made. THAT is a "claim" clearly backed up by your continuing
nonsense ... you seem to be the only one unable to comprehend what I
said. Your problem, not mine.
Anthony Marsh
> Anthony said:
>> More attacks from Team McAdams. They are getting desperate.
>
> Indeed. All the frantic demands they are making are giving them away. :-0
>
Some of them wished that this subject would go away, but they keep
spewing out nonsense.
steve
wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2007 22:44:37 -0500, polly brown <pamel...@mindspring.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
it always is his intention.
polly brown
wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2007 22:44:37 -0500, polly brown <pamel...@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 18, 11:04 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> >> > It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
> >> > How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
> >> > Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
> >> > assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>
> >> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
> >> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
> >> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
> >> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>
> >It doesn't make any sense that Barb would try to quibble over accepting
> >Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apar
>
> Everything Anthony is going on and on about me and this stupid diagram
> doesn't make sense. And, personally, I think that is his intention.
> :-)
>
This is evidence, Barb. Live with it.
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> Once more we hear from the King of Out of Context. On the newsgroups, a
> Judyth-basher who had talked with a few of Judyth's former classmates
> described her as "weird," and suggested that she was socially isolated. In
> fact, she was a very popular young woman, as news articles attest. That
> was the significance of the item--but you already knew that.
>
> Martin
Hey, Shackelford, the discussion is over. Your bogus laundry list
impressed no one. CBS "60 Minutes" dumped Judyth seven long years ago, no
real publishing house would even consider publishing her story, and when
she finally did pay to get her book printed, no one would buy it and no
one would even review it. It's like it never happened... but we know it
did and we remember who was responsible.
JGL
steve
> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
> > On 19 Dec 2007 23:13:39 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>
> >> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
> >>> On 19 Dec 2007 14:37:22 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>
> >>>> Barb Junkkarinen wrote:
> >>>>> On 19 Dec 2007 00:04:11 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>
> >>>>>> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> >>>>>>> It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
> >>>>>>> How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
> >>>>>>> Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
> >>>>>>> assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>
> >>>>>> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
> >>>>>> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
> >>>>>> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
> >>>>>> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
> >>>>> Wow, you really need to slow down and actually comprehend what is
> >>>>> written, Anthony.
>
> >>>> You claimed that you COULD draw a floorplan of my apartment.
> >>> Go back to the original (or any subsequent reiteration...sigh) and try
> >>> reading for comprehension ... and context. The context of "could" was
> >>> physically, I COULD draw a floor plan (paper, pencil, ruler). And I
> >>> could claim it is a floorplan of your apartment.
>
> >> You did not say that you wouldn't or that it was impossible. You said you
> >> COULD.
>
> > For gawd's sake, Anthony. I COULD pick up a pencil and I COULD get a
> > piece of paper and I COULD draw a floorplan and then I COULD tell
> > people it was a floorplan of your apartment.
>
> Then do it. Blackburst just said that he does not think that Judyth
> could have drawn her floorplan from just her imagination.
>
>
he also said the diagram resembles what the apartment looked like
after renovations done to it well after Ferrie was dead.
Barb Junkkarinen
wrote:
>On Dec 21, 1:33 am, Barb Junkkarinen <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>> On 19 Dec 2007 22:44:37 -0500, polly brown <pamel...@mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Dec 18, 11:04 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> Martin Shackelford wrote:
>> >> > It was a diagram made from memory, Barb.
>> >> > How much detail could you recall accurately from a location after 35 years?
>> >> > Not having been in Ferrie's apartment in 1963, I could hardly make
>> >> > assurances that the diagram was 100% accurate.
>>
>> >> Barb is claiming that Judyth made it up out of whole cloth without ever
>> >> seeing Ferrie's apartment. Barb even joked that she could probably draw a
>> >> diagram of MY apartment without ever having seen it. I called her bluff.
>> >> Do you think she'll Cowboy up? Not in this lifetime.
>>
>> >It doesn't make any sense that Barb would try to quibble over accepting
>> >Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apar
>>
>> Everything Anthony is going on and on about me and this stupid diagram
>> doesn't make sense. And, personally, I think that is his intention.
>> :-)
>>
>And Barb is calling Judyth's diagram of Ferrie's apartment 'stupid'?
>This is evidence, Barb. Live with it.
It is evidence. Of *what* exactly, is the question. If it is a
reasonable floorplan of the apartment after remodeling years later,
and not of the apartment in 1963 ... what does that tell you, Pamela?
Please tell us.
Barb :-)
polly brown
> Pamela McElwain-Brown wrote:
> > Anthony said:
> >> More attacks from Team McAdams. They are getting desperate.
>
> > Indeed. All the frantic demands they are making are giving them away. :-0
>
> Some of them wished that this subject would go away, but they keep
> spewing out nonsense.
>
that Judyth drew a diagram of Ferrie's apartment. It happens to tally
with what Ferrie's apartment looked like at that time. It's called
evidence.
polly brown
wrote:
> On 21 Dec 2007 20:39:12 -0500, polly brown <pamel...@mindspring.com>
like when she was there.
Why can't you acknowledge that? Why keep trying to wiggle and squirm
around it?
polly brown
>
What on earth does that mean? :-0
Anthony Marsh
I thought your point was that she simply made it up from her imagination
never having seen it once. That was the point of your claim that you could
likewise draw a floorplan of my abode. Still waiting for that drawing.
Anthony Marsh
Which indicates to me that Judyth did not simply make it up from her
imagination as Barb suggested.
black...@aol.com
wrote:
> >This is evidence, Barb. Live with it.
>
> It is evidence. Of *what* exactly, is the question. If it is a
> reasonable floorplan of the apartment after remodeling years later,
> and not of the apartment in 1963 ... what does that tell you, Pamela?
> Please tell us.
>
> Barb :-)
I don't really want to belabor this.
A few examples: The diagram indicates folding doors between the living and
dining rooms. Show partially in a 1963 picture and fully, from both sides,
in a 1967 picture, there are no folding doors. It is a standard 2-door
doorway from which both doors have been removed from the hinges. But when
I saw it in the 90s, a set of folding doors had been added.
In 1967 pictures, at least, there is an additional door between the dining
room and central corridor. By the 1990s, this had been replaced by
drywall, as the diagram seems to indicate.
Viewed from the front of the house, Ferrie's bedroom was not on the left,
as the diagram indicates; this was the location of a backroom containing
books, degrees, barbells, etc. The bedroom was on the right, behind the
kitchen.
On the other hand, the diagam does seem accurate in other ways. The two
question I have are when was it made, and did Baker ever visit the
apartment before it was made?
John McAdams
<black...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Dec 22, 12:55=A0pm, Barb Junkkarinen <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>> >This is evidence, Barb. =A0Live with it.
In fact, of course, she didn't have to go inside. Somebody can just
walk around a building and look in some windows and see plainly what
the layout is.
.John
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Barb Junkkarinen
wrote:
>On Dec 21, 10:03 pm, steve <misledrks...@aol.com> wrote:
Well, gee, Pamela ... if you drew a floorplan of my house and it
closely resembled my house after it had been remodeled, but did not
resemble it before the remodeling ... would it not be a likely
"orientation" that you had been to my house AFTER it had been
remodeled ... and not before?
It's not rocket science.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
Like I said before, Anthony ... quote me.
What it indicates to me, and I expect to you as well, is that she was
in the apartment after it was remodeled.
Step right up, Anthony ... if the floorplan Judyth drew resembles the
apartment after it had been remodeled (some years after Ferrie's
death) ... but not before it was remodeled...do you think it likely
that Judyth was in the apartment in 1963, or some years later after it
had been remodeled.
A straight answer will do.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
wrote:
>On Dec 22, 11:55 am, Barb Junkkarinen <barbREMOVE...@comcast.net>
It does? According to whom?
>Why can't you acknowledge that? Why keep trying to wiggle and squirm
>around it?
No wiggling necessary. From what I have heard, the floorplan resembles
the apartment, not completely but in many respects, AFTER it was
remodeled.
If you have evidence to the contrary, post it here.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
She could have made it up completely .. but that would have been
pretty stupid, more likely based on pictures or other info available
.... or having been there years later ... not knowing it had been
remodeled. Just my opinion.
>Still waiting for that drawing.
Then you need to learn to read, dear.
Barb Junkkarinen
wrote:
>On Dec 21, 7:33 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Pamela McElwain-Brown wrote:
>> > Anthony said:
>> >> More attacks from Team McAdams. They are getting desperate.
>>
>> > Indeed. All the frantic demands they are making are giving them away. :-0
>>
>> Some of them wished that this subject would go away, but they keep
>> spewing out nonsense.
>>
>I know. It's becoming tiresome. Why can't Barb simply acknowledge
>that Judyth drew a diagram of Ferrie's apartment. It happens to tally
>with what Ferrie's apartment looked like at that time. It's called
>evidence.
All I have seen on Ferrie's apartment is from Blackburst ... and he
said the drawing resembles the AFTER remodeling apartment ... but
still has some things wrong.
If you have evidence/documentation otherwise, post it.
Barb :-)
Barb Junkkarinen
Pertinent questions, for sure. And thanks for the things you pointed
out. The 1967 from 1967 vs what you saw in person in the 90's .... and
the drawing showing those same post-1967 things would seem to be quite
telling, imo. Or one holy heck of a coincidence.
Happy Holidays to you!
Barb :-)
Anthony Marsh
Jeez, how many years did it take you to figure that out?
Anthony Marsh
> On 23 Dec 2007 00:04:03 -0500, polly brown <pame...@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 21, 7:33 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Pamela McElwain-Brown wrote:
>>>> Anthony said:
>>>>> More attacks from Team McAdams. They are getting desperate.
>>>> Indeed. All the frantic demands they are making are giving them away. :-0
>>> Some of them wished that this subject would go away, but they keep
>>> spewing out nonsense.
>>>
>> I know. It's becoming tiresome. Why can't Barb simply acknowledge
>> that Judyth drew a diagram of Ferrie's apartment. It happens to tally
>> with what Ferrie's apartment looked like at that time. It's called
>> evidence.
>
> All I have seen on Ferrie's apartment is from Blackburst ... and he
> said the drawing resembles the AFTER remodeling apartment ... but
> still has some things wrong.
>
So,if Blackburst says something you believe it. Especially when he has
admitted to putting out false information. That says a lot.
> If you have evidence/documentation otherwise, post it.
>
See the files on my Web site.
Anthony Marsh
Then you could make up a drawing of my abode.
>> Still waiting for that drawing.
>
> Then you need to learn to read, dear.
>
You need to stop making specious claims, sweetheart.
Anthony Marsh
How could she do that only from her imagination as you claimed?