Deadly Spider Fist & Other Undesirable Kung Fu Styles
planetclaire
pick the one with the '***k Off ma-hussive' Spider hurtling around like an
arachnid on amphetamines and all I can say is CHEERS folks, thanks for the
warning! I sure missed that in your posts :-@
'Chinese Odyssey:Pandora's Box', great film, very, very off head, (if only
I'd ordered part II at the same time) but hey..., lose the ***k**g spider...
(...and only yesterday I read the new John Connelly book and, but of course,
hello Mr. Pudd, Arochnomaniac Extraordinaire, charging around inflicting
death by 'recluse' and injecting concentrated spider venom into peoples
armpits. It must be a conspiracy)
ENOUGH already.
These abominations feature in mythology as the guardians of the underworld
for good reason, they ARE the work of the devil and if they really are more
scared of us etc etc, how come they charge straight at you wearing DM's,
drinking Special Brew,smoking a roll up and semaphoring 'You're gonna die
MF' with their palps. Yeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuchhhhhhhhhh. I'm telling you they
wanna take us out >;-( '
A pox upon them.
Y
'Paranoia is just the sound of intuition colliding with logical analysis.
Make sure your intuition wins'
(I guess that guy was right about those gum wrappers) ;-)
deadmead
news:mE6D6.48973$R37.7...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> Ok, so of the 5 DVD's I could have picked to watch tonight I just had to
> pick the one with the '***k Off ma-hussive' Spider hurtling around like
an
> arachnid on amphetamines and all I can say is CHEERS folks, thanks for the
> warning! I sure missed that in your posts :-@
>
> 'Chinese Odyssey:Pandora's Box', great film, very, very off head, (if only
> I'd ordered part II at the same time) but hey..., lose the ***k**g
spider...
But..But... Chinese Odyssey movies are indeed based on
Journey to the West (not a filmic adaptation of it, but creative
movies inspired by the legend), and Spider the none-human
and its "residence" are very important character and location
in the original Monkey King stories.
deadmead
<snip>
> Y
>
> 'Paranoia is just the sound of intuition colliding with logical analysis.
> Make sure your intuition wins'
>
> (I guess that guy was right about those gum wrappers) ;-)
>
>
--
色戀無用
Folly and villainy are integral motives, necessary
to wisdom or virtue.
--- Kenneth Burke
Devil Plaything
"planetclaire" <planet...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mE6D6.48973$R37.7...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> These abominations feature in mythology as the guardians of the underworld
> for good reason, they ARE the work of the devil and if they really are
more
> scared of us etc etc, how come they charge straight at you wearing DM's,
> drinking Special Brew,smoking a roll up and semaphoring 'You're gonna die
> MF' with their palps. Yeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuchhhhhhhhhh. I'm telling you they
> wanna take us out >;-( '
>
And just what do they need all those legs *for*?
(fellow arachnophobe)
You definitely should have ordered pt 2 at the same time - they're designed
to flow together. Order Royal Tramp next, but definitely order Part 2 at
the same time in this case too, for similar but even more so reasons. I
prefer RT myself, but I think I'm in a minority.
planetclaire
Well I guess its kind of hard to argue with that but did it have to be such
a literal visual translation? :-)
I apologise for my ignorance, I am not a scholar of Chinese Literature and
was hitherto unaware that Chinese Literature and mythology was so infested
with this particular archetype, (Isn't the Caribbean Anansi character more
of a trickster, not quite so, well 'leggy' in representations) .
Doesn't Chinese opera manage to convey the same characters through the use
of masks and make up that form easily recognisable visual prompts. That guy
in Scorpion King was surely unmistakable as a scorpion without having any
masks or additional limbs or joints (all be it that he was merely using a
fighting style as apposed to playing a non-human or mythological demi-god)
When the man on the ground started muttering about spiders I thought the
worse case scenario was a tarantula legging it through the dirt, I was ill
prepared when 'Homo- arachnid Giganticus' hove in to view. Its like
following someone else's directions; you assume you've taken a wrong turn
when you spot some building or landmark that it wouldn't have occurred to
you not to mention. Having a fear of spiders I feel that a 15ft spider
equipped with fully automatic oral harpoon capabilities is the kind of thing
I might specifically mention when referring to the movie.
After all mythology borrows animal imagery based on its ability to sustain
transference of perceived human characteristics in the first place, and
those characteristics are not necessarily to do with anatomy so much as
behaviours and facial characteristics or movement. (and I hope to God I
never meet anyone with eight eyes and a face like a spider) .
Accordingly you don't see many megalomaniac evil sheep in literature
(although Murakami may buck that particular trend to some degree)
Thankfully the spider interlude in Green Snake was mercifully short.
Y
planetclaire
> And just what do they need all those legs *for*?
Well you know what they say, 'The devil makes work for idle legs' ;-)
> You definitely should have ordered pt 2 at the same time - they're
designed
> to flow together.
Very apparant at the end of part I, I was left hanging on the edge of my
seat.
Order Royal Tramp next, >
I don't really know what that ones about.
'Easy'
Y
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
>Deadmead
>
>Well I guess its kind of hard to argue with that but did it have to be such
>a literal visual translation? :-)
>I apologise for my ignorance, I am not a scholar of Chinese Literature and
>was hitherto unaware that Chinese Literature and mythology was so infested
>with this particular archetype, (Isn't the Caribbean Anansi character more
>of a trickster, not quite so, well 'leggy' in representations) .
>
>Doesn't Chinese opera manage to convey the same characters through the use
>of masks and make up that form easily recognisable visual prompts.
Sure, but stage opera is quite different from the cinema.
>That guy
>in Scorpion King was surely unmistakable as a scorpion without having any
>masks or additional limbs or joints (all be it that he was merely using a
>fighting style as apposed to playing a non-human or mythological demi-god)
>
Well, if that character was merely human using a fighting style based on
scorpion characteristics/behaviors, that's certainly different, no? If
someone ever makes a movie depicting Thor's mythological battle w/
Jormungand (spl?), the Mid-gard Serpent, I'd certainly want to see Thor
fight a demi-god that looks like a giant serpent or dragon, not just some
humoid form donning a mask.
>When the man on the ground started muttering about spiders I thought the
>worse case scenario was a tarantula legging it through the dirt, I was ill
>prepared when 'Homo- arachnid Giganticus' hove in to view. Its like
>following someone else's directions; you assume you've taken a wrong turn
>when you spot some building or landmark that it wouldn't have occurred to
>you not to mention. Having a fear of spiders I feel that a 15ft spider
>equipped with fully automatic oral harpoon capabilities is the kind of
thing
>I might specifically mention when referring to the movie.
>
Maybe this should be considered the cinematic version of culture shock PLUS
personal irrational fears. ;-)
>After all mythology borrows animal imagery based on its ability to sustain
>transference of perceived human characteristics in the first place, and
>those characteristics are not necessarily to do with anatomy so much as
>behaviours and facial characteristics or movement. (and I hope to God I
>never meet anyone with eight eyes and a face like a spider) .
>
Well, it's mythology, no? And while you may well be right about the origins
for most of such mythical creatures, that doesn't make a more literal
translation onto film any less valid than what could've been the origins.
It's a movie based on/inspired by mythology, not some
scientific/archeological/cultural study of such mythology.
FWIW, I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm waiting for my order to
arrive--and I did order both parts. ;-)
_Man_
--
Please remove **NOSPAM** from my address to reply by email.
deadmead
news:cBqD6.3008$Vu4....@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> Deadmead
>
> Well I guess its kind of hard to argue with that but did it have to be
such
> a literal visual translation? :-)
> I apologise for my ignorance, I am not a scholar of Chinese Literature and
> was hitherto unaware that Chinese Literature and mythology was so infested
> with this particular archetype, (Isn't the Caribbean Anansi character more
> of a trickster, not quite so, well 'leggy' in representations) .
I shouldn't be doing this since my busy schedule is killing (has been
killing) me now, but this is a very interesting issue.
As I mentioned ealier in this NG (don't know whether you caught my
posts about traditional Chinese fiction), "Journey To the West," just
like "Outlaws of Marsh" is a serious social staire / criticism in the
form of folk stories or "popular fictions" at the time. All the
none-humans in the Monkey King stories can be viewed as
a metaphor of humans with ill spirit: devil with human skins.
The author of "Journey to the West" virtually came up with every
possible "none-human" creatures we can think of to be the villians
in the narrative: the devils (metaphor of ill-spirited humans) that
want to eat Monkey King's master alive. Sometimes they just go
after Monkey King's master in their "original forms" and sometimes
they will attain human forms first and when they need to use their
magical power, they would need to reveal their original forms.
>
> Doesn't Chinese opera manage to convey the same characters through the use
> of masks and make up that form easily recognisable visual prompts. That
guy
> in Scorpion King was surely unmistakable as a scorpion without having any
> masks or additional limbs or joints (all be it that he was merely using a
> fighting style as apposed to playing a non-human or mythological demi-god)
On stage, and as Chinese opera (any kind of Chinese local stage dramas)
is a very abstract art form, we can use simple, abstract signs and symbols
(including hand gestures) to represent tangible objects. Yet, in a HK
mainstream movie such as the one you just saw isn't going to follow this
convention, especially, the none-humans in Monkey King stories are
real "none-humans": when they go back to their original forms, they
don't suppose to look like humans at all.
<snip>
> After all mythology borrows animal imagery based on its ability to sustain
> transference of perceived human characteristics in the first place, and
> those characteristics are not necessarily to do with anatomy so much as
> behaviours and facial characteristics or movement. (and I hope to God I
> never meet anyone with eight eyes and a face like a spider) .
>
> Accordingly you don't see many megalomaniac evil sheep in literature
> (although Murakami may buck that particular trend to some degree)
As for how the "spider" is presented in "Chinese Odyssey," I don't
think Chinese mythology has that kind of "spider" image, it's more
a HK mainstream filmmaking (exaggerated visual / make-up effects,
especially in a Stephen Chow feature), rather than "that Chinese
Literature and mythology was so infested with this particular
archetype." "Spider none-humans" are just ones of the many various
none-humans in "Journey To the West." More often than not though,
"spider none-humans" would be a "villian" type of character in Chinese
literature and myth. Anyway, the author of "Journey to the West"
didn't describe the appearance of any none-human in detail (and
certainly not the "Spider" image you see in "Chinese Odyssey"),
and it's the job of the storytellers in the past and filmmakers
today to "bring the Spider into life." And unfortunately, what you
got in "Chinese Odyssey" is the one you dislike.
>
> Thankfully the spider interlude in Green Snake was mercifully short.
"Green Snake" is different from Monkey King stories. "Green Sanke"
is Vivian Lee and Tsui Hark's peculiar twist of the legendary "Madame
White Snake" story (a traidtional Chinese short fiction, and wish we
will have more time in the future to talk about this wonderful film,
especially look at the movie, Vivian Lee's novel, and the original
White Snake story at the same time).
In the origianl story, Madame White Snake and her friend "Green"
contrive to become "pure human": they can successfully blend into
human soceity only if they maintain in human forms. In "Journey
to The West," however, it's like Monkey King and companies
go into the "wild wild west" and none-humans can show their
none-human forms as they wish.
BTW, Brigette Lin had also played the white snake (Joey Wong's
character) before.
deadmead
>
> Y
>
>
> > > 'Chinese Odyssey:Pandora's Box', great film, very, very off head, (if
> only
> > > I'd ordered part II at the same time) but hey..., lose the ***k**g
> > spider...
> >
> > But..But... Chinese Odyssey movies are indeed based on
> > Journey to the West (not a filmic adaptation of it, but creative
> > movies inspired by the legend), and Spider the none-human
> > and its "residence" are very important character and location
> > in the original Monkey King stories.
> >
> >
> > deadmead
> >
>
>
>
--
planetclaire
deadmead <kjc...@loyno.edu> wrote in message
news:ZjrD6.26221$IJ1.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "planetclaire" <planet...@ukonline.co.uk> 撰寫於郵件
> news:cBqD6.3008$Vu4....@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> > Deadmead
> >
>
(Alot of snipping...)
> >
> > Thankfully the spider interlude in Green Snake was mercifully short.
>
A beautiful film although the copy I bought has teeny tiny subtitles that
often disapeared into the background,
I will need to watch it again to catch the dialogue properly although the
story appeared to speak for itself.
>
> BTW, Brigette Lin had also played the white snake (Joey Wong's
> character) before.
>
Really? What film was that in?
Y
planetclaire
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie) <mandn.wong@**NOSPAM**verizon.net> wrote
in message news:j1rD6.106$yg.2...@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net...
> planetclaire wrote in message ...
> >
>
> scorpion characteristics/behaviors, that's certainly different, no? If
> someone ever makes a movie depicting Thor's mythological battle w/
> Jormungand (spl?), the Mid-gard Serpent, I'd certainly want to see Thor
> fight a demi-god that looks like a giant serpent or dragon, not just some
> humoid form donning a mask.
Yeah, I do agree (now that I've got over the shock)
>
>
> Maybe this should be considered the cinematic version of culture shock
PLUS
> personal irrational fears. ;-)
No shit !
>
> FWIW, I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm waiting for my order to
> arrive--and I did order both parts. ;-)
>
Well don't the whole world just hate a smatarse ;-P .... I'm pretty sure my
ranting won't have spoilt your viewing and you definately need to watch one
straight after the other.
Enjoy, its groovey, just watch out for that spider :-)
deadmead
news:a_rD6.3013$Vu4....@monolith.news.easynet.net...
>
> > > Thankfully the spider interlude in Green Snake was mercifully short.
> A beautiful film although the copy I bought has teeny tiny subtitles that
> often disapeared into the background,
> I will need to watch it again to catch the dialogue properly although the
> story appeared to speak for itself.
You do have the widescreen version (2.35:1) of this film, don't you?
You have to see it in its original ratio! (the stunning cinematography
won't come through from any of the video transfer though)
I had the chance to watch it on big screen when it was released in
Taiwan: you have to see it on big screen...
BTW, while the Cantonese soundtrack is prefrred and better,
the Mandarin soundtrack is definitely funnier (you probably
won't tell the difference if you don't know the Chinese dialects...)
>
> >
> > BTW, Brigette Lin had also played the white snake (Joey Wong's
> > character) before.
> >
>
> Really? What film was that in?
It's "Love of the White Snake" (1978), in which Brigette teams
up with Charlie Chin, one of her most frequent co-stars in her
"melodramatic- tearjerking- romantic" movies thorughout the
70s (the other being Chun Hon).
If you have chance to find a copy of Brigette's cinematic debut
"Outside the Window" (1973), you would understand why she
was the most popular Taiwanese movie star throughout the 70s
(and into the early 80s). Her beauty in this film is "phenomenal."
This movie made Brigette a star.
Furthermore, this movie is directed by one of the better Taiwanese
directors Sung Chuen Sau. He and King Hu are filmmakers of
the same generation, and they both worked as assisant directors
in making "The Love Eterne" (aka "Butterfly lovers").
I believe you can find his outstanding "The Dawn" (1967)
on vcd. Of course if you're not interested in "antiques," don't
bother:)
deadmead
>
> Y
Jeff Coleman
> "planetclaire" <planet...@ukonline.co.uk> 撰寫於郵件
> news:a_rD6.3013$Vu4....@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> >
> > > > Thankfully the spider interlude in Green Snake was mercifully short.
> You do have the widescreen version (2.35:1) of this film, don't you?
> You have to see it in its original ratio! (the stunning cinematography
> won't come through from any of the video transfer though)
> I had the chance to watch it on big screen when it was released in
> Taiwan: you have to see it on big screen...
Thanks to _Man_ for posting the link to Subway Cinema's upcoming Tsui Hark
festival, in NY we get to see Green Snake on a big screen! There's a couple
of pictures there, Green Snake, We're Going to Eat You, and Chinese Feast,
that I'm looking forward to seeing for the first time!
> > > BTW, Brigette Lin had also played the white snake (Joey Wong's
> > > character) before.
> > >
> >
> > Really? What film was that in?
>
> It's "Love of the White Snake" (1978), in which Brigette teams
> up with Charlie Chin, one of her most frequent co-stars in her
> "melodramatic- tearjerking- romantic" movies thorughout the
> 70s (the other being Chun Hon).
> If you have chance to find a copy of Brigette's cinematic debut
> "Outside the Window" (1973), you would understand why she
> was the most popular Taiwanese movie star throughout the 70s
> (and into the early 80s). Her beauty in this film is "phenomenal."
> This movie made Brigette a star.
I want these movies!!!
I love Brigitte Lin, and I'd like to see some more of her when she was
young. She was awfully cute in POLICE STORY, but not very consequential.
Of course I love many of her wu-xia movies in the late-80's, early-90's. I
loved EAST IS RED personally. Anyway, I'd give my right arm to see some
young, beautiful Brigitte Lin movies! :)
Jeff
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
>"deadmead" <kjc...@loyno.edu> wrote in message
>news:47tD6.6401$hH3.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> You have to see it in its original ratio! (the stunning cinematography
>> won't come through from any of the video transfer though)
>> I had the chance to watch it on big screen when it was released in
>> Taiwan: you have to see it on big screen...
>
>Thanks to _Man_ for posting the link to Subway Cinema's upcoming Tsui Hark
>festival, in NY we get to see Green Snake on a big screen! There's a
couple
>of pictures there, Green Snake, We're Going to Eat You, and Chinese Feast,
>that I'm looking forward to seeing for the first time!
>
Now I'm thinking that I should go watch this movie on the big screen too.
;-)
>I love Brigitte Lin, and I'd like to see some more of her when she was
>young. She was awfully cute in POLICE STORY, but not very consequential.
>Of course I love many of her wu-xia movies in the late-80's, early-90's. I
>loved EAST IS RED personally. Anyway, I'd give my right arm to see some
>young, beautiful Brigitte Lin movies! :)
>
Well, I don't know if you'd give your "right arm" for this, but try this
link for some screenshots of many of her older (and more recent) films.
BTW, Zu is from the early/mid 80's and easily available on DVD, if you don't
have it already.
http://www.brns.com/pages/blinrev.html
This site seems to be pretty good for HK movie reviews and is run by
somebody out of Brooklyn(?) w/ several contributors. It has a bunch of
reviews devoted to various HK stars like Brigitte Lin, Maggie Cheung, CYF,
Jet Li and Stephen Chow beyond the usual genre listings.
For more stuff on Brigitte Lin beyond movie reviews, you might try this:
http://www.brigittelin.com/index.htm
Jeff Coleman
> Now I'm thinking that I should go watch this movie on the big screen too.
> ;-)
> >I love Brigitte Lin, and I'd like to see some more of her when she was
> >young. She was awfully cute in POLICE STORY, but not very consequential.
> >Of course I love many of her wu-xia movies in the late-80's, early-90's.
I
> >loved EAST IS RED personally. Anyway, I'd give my right arm to see some
> >young, beautiful Brigitte Lin movies! :)
> >
>
> Well, I don't know if you'd give your "right arm" for this, but try this
> link for some screenshots of many of her older (and more recent) films.
> BTW, Zu is from the early/mid 80's and easily available on DVD, if you
don't
> have it already.
Got it :)
> http://www.brns.com/pages/blinrev.html
>
> This site seems to be pretty good for HK movie reviews and is run by
> somebody out of Brooklyn(?) w/ several contributors. It has a bunch of
> reviews devoted to various HK stars like Brigitte Lin, Maggie Cheung, CYF,
> Jet Li and Stephen Chow beyond the usual genre listings.
Cool, I'll check this one out!
> For more stuff on Brigitte Lin beyond movie reviews, you might try this:
>
> http://www.brigittelin.com/index.htm
This one I'm familiar with. Pretty good site!
Jeff
planetclaire
> You do have the widescreen version (2.35:1) of this film, don't you?
> You have to see it in its original ratio! (the stunning cinematography
> won't come through from any of the video transfer though)
> I had the chance to watch it on big screen when it was released in
> Taiwan: you have to see it on big screen...
I ordered the only copy I saw available which is the Tung Ah DVD, its
definately Widescreen as its letterboxed (unfortunately thee subtitles
overlay the picture rather than appearing in the black strip.
> BTW, while the Cantonese soundtrack is prefrred and better,
> the Mandarin soundtrack is definitely funnier (you probably
> won't tell the difference if you don't know the Chinese dialects...)
Regrettably I don't speak or understand any Chinese dialect although I do
knowc there are more tones in Cantonese than Mandarin (which presumabley
doesn't help much if your tone deaf) The believe the DVD is in Mandarin
though as there is a noticeably 'ZRR' sound which does not usually appear to
feature in Cantonese which has more 'NG' inflections. (Atleast that is the
way I normally tell the difference although I may be labouring under a
misapprehension)
>
> It's "Love of the White Snake" (1978),
> If you have chance to find a copy of Brigette's cinematic debut
> "Outside the Window" (1973), you would understand why she
> was the most popular Taiwanese movie star throughout the 70s
> (and into the early 80s).
Both of these sound interesting, its always good to get recommendations as
I'm pretty recent to the whole genre.
> Her beauty in this film is "phenomenal."
> This movie made Brigette a star.
I'm probably not a good judge of female beauty being female myself, although
I've never quite fully understood peoples fascination with Brigette Lin's
looks (not that I think she's ugly of course), Maggie Cheung (is that
right? - 'Green') always struck me as being stunning and oddly everything
I've seen her in she seems to be playing, well, I gues you might say
'morally ambigous' characters.
>
> Furthermore, this movie is directed by one of the better Taiwanese
> directors Sung Chuen Sau. He and King Hu are filmmakers of
> the same generation, and they both worked as assisant directors
> in making "The Love Eterne" (aka "Butterfly lovers").
> I believe you can find his outstanding "The Dawn" (1967)
> on vcd. Of course if you're not interested in "antiques," don't
> bother:)
mmmmm, I quite enjoy antiques :-)
>
BTW One of the most striking thing about many of the films I've seen in this
genre of HK/Asian movies is the use of colour, much more visually arresting
than most western film, alot stronger colour saturation (without gaudiness),
perhaps it goes hand in hand with the unselfconscious surrender to the world
of imagery and senses (western film only seems to really let go with smaltz
or carnality), perhaps there is a harsher and more cynical world view at
work in Hollywood and the west, (although obviously there are exceptions,
Peter Greenway springs to mind and possibly Neil Jordan's 'Company of Woles'
and Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil', oh and whover did 'Delicatessen')
Y
deadmead
news:ztLD6.7599$e35....@monolith.news.easynet.net...
>
> I ordered the only copy I saw available which is the Tung Ah DVD, its
> definately Widescreen as its letterboxed (unfortunately thee subtitles
> overlay the picture rather than appearing in the black strip.
I think they use the same print the vcd version uses: with unremovable
subtitles?
>
> Regrettably I don't speak or understand any Chinese dialect although I do
> knowc there are more tones in Cantonese than Mandarin (which presumabley
> doesn't help much if your tone deaf) The believe the DVD is in Mandarin
> though as there is a noticeably 'ZRR' sound which does not usually appear
to
> feature in Cantonese which has more 'NG' inflections. (Atleast that is the
> way I normally tell the difference although I may be labouring under a
> misapprehension)
I haven't seen the DVD version you have, and so I don't know whether it's
in Mandarin or in Cantonese. Normally, a HK DVD should have both tracks.
anyway, in the Mandarin soundtrack, Joey Wong sometimes would speak in
a way as she's singing Peking Opera! this "twist" adds so much fun to the
movie. Just like in the Mandarin version of Aces Go Places movies, Carl Mak
speaks Mandarin with very, very heavy Shang-Tung accent, and to me, it's
really much funnier / comical than the HK version in which he speaks
Cantonese.
<snip>
> > Her beauty in this film is "phenomenal."
> > This movie made Brigette a star.
>
> I'm probably not a good judge of female beauty being female myself,
although
> I've never quite fully understood peoples fascination with Brigette Lin's
> looks (not that I think she's ugly of course), Maggie Cheung (is that
> right? - 'Green') always struck me as being stunning and oddly everything
> I've seen her in she seems to be playing, well, I gues you might say
> 'morally ambigous' characters.
well, judging human beauty is a very subjective thing. and I think it does
make lots of sense if men and women judge female / male beauty differently.
I myself don't feel either Brigette Lin or Maggie Cheung "always beautiful"
although I do think Brigette Lin is more beautiful than Maggie. Yet Maggie
is a much superior actress. The only two times I really, really fall into
Brigette
Lin's spell were "Outside the Window" and "Swordsman II"; in both movies,
she is "surreal." And Maggie is most beautiful in "Green Snake." Maggie has
been in tons of HK TV serials and movies, and she has played all sorts of
characters. In "Green Snake," her role isn't just "morally ambigous," she's
an outsider of human / moral Order who, with the permission of the Order,
lives with human society. It would get very complicated. We can come back
later:)
BTW, I've seen Brigette Lin in downtown Taipei twice. Not "surreal" at all.
>
> mmmmm, I quite enjoy antiques :-)
> >
GREAT!
>
> BTW One of the most striking thing about many of the films I've seen in
this
> genre of HK/Asian movies is the use of colour, much more visually
arresting
> than most western film, alot stronger colour saturation (without
gaudiness),
> perhaps it goes hand in hand with the unselfconscious surrender to the
world
> of imagery and senses (western film only seems to really let go with
smaltz
> or carnality), perhaps there is a harsher and more cynical world view at
> work in Hollywood and the west, (although obviously there are exceptions,
> Peter Greenway springs to mind and possibly Neil Jordan's 'Company of
Woles'
> and Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil', oh and whover did 'Delicatessen')
First of all, I think it isn't appropriate to classify HK / Asian movies as
a "genre."
There are many "genres" among HK and other Asian movies. Then, if you've
been seeing HK movies all your life (like I have been doing), you would know
HK movies aren't always that "colorful." Yet, as you may have tried some
movies
that have been recommended in this NG or elsewhere, and these movies, more
often than not, would be the better HK productions, and in my viewing
experience, the higher the production value of a HK movie (especially post
mid-80s), the more stylish the filmic forms and the more stylized use of
color.
Thus, you would see more stylish mainstream HK movies than mainstream
Hollywood films. Personally, I think Tsui Hark has contributed to this
unique
feature of mainstream HK cinema more than any other filmmakers. Except
for the beginning of his career, he's been making (not just directing, he
has been doing many other things as well) mainstream, commercial films,
and he has done all sorts of experiments of filmic forms in his mainstream
films. He's been an innovator of HK cinema, and when Tsui Hark is stylish,
rest of the field would follow.
If we look at personal directors, as you mentioned Peter Greenway and Terry
Gilliams, I think in both Western and Eastern cinema scenes, most personal
directors would use color in creative ways. Look at the color films by
Fellini,
Passolini, and Andrew Tarkovsky (there are many more...), their visual
expression in general and their use of color in particular are stunning and
breathtaking. In Japan, when Ozu wanted to make a colore film: "Good
Morning," he had a lot fun playing with colors. Takeshi Kitano is obssessed
with color "blue" and his films more often than not are visually arrested.
BTW, have you seen "The City of Lost Children"? It's directed by Jeunet &
Caro (the "whover" made "Delicatessen"). It's a little more bizzare than
"Delicatessen" but still very good, IMO.
planetclaire
>
> I think they use the same print the vcd version uses: with unremovable
> subtitles?
I couldn't even find a menu on there so yes, I imagine they are unremovable.
>
> <snip>
>
>Maggie has
> been in tons of HK TV serials and movies, and she has played all sorts of
> characters. In "Green Snake," her role isn't just "morally ambigous,"
she's
> an outsider of human / moral Order who, with the permission of the Order,
> lives with human society. It would get very complicated. We can come back
> later:)
>
Well the two non-humans are trying to be human (which lets face it most
humans find hard enough :-)
and Green may be the less experienced of the two but she still strikes me as
the more shrewd if less empathetic of the 'sisters'.
She ceratinly had the pious monks number. I'd have to say I couldn't really
see what harm they were doing, okay 'White' may have beguiled the romantic
scholar but he he seemed happy enough, and even when the truth came out he
struggled to overcome his fear / aversion and sought to protect them when he
thought they were in danger. It was the monk that caused all the trouble for
sure. I liked the 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' scene in the
monastry where time and space appeared to stand still or move outside of
itself, (when they were hiding the scholar)
Green may have had less empathy with humans but she had a whole shit load of
empathy with her 'sister', you got the impression that humans remained
merely objects or things that she found frustrating (apart from her crush on
the monk and even that had a certain predatory feel about it)
>
BTW, I've seen Brigette Lin in downtown Taipei twice. Not "surreal" at all.
You are in Taiwan?
> > BTW One of the most striking thing about many of the films I've seen in
> this
> > genre of HK/Asian movies is the use of colour
> First of all, I think it isn't appropriate to classify HK / Asian movies
as
> a "genre."
I think perhaps I did not express myself clearly as yes, I was refering to a
genre within HK/Asian cinema, as the stylised use of colour that I've seen
seems to appear more in historical/fantasy/wuxia type fims. I love OUATIC
and think that has high production values but I don't think it demonstrates
the same characteristics in visual styling (just for example).
>Personally, I think Tsui Hark has contributed to this
unique feature of mainstream HK cinema more than any other filmmakers.
I started watching HK cinema as a result of a Jet Li film but soon noticed
the recurring theme of Tsui Hark (having also seen Peking Opera Blues early
on) and pretty much springboarded from there based on whatever element of a
film seemed to grab my interest, whether it was the actor, director, the
period in history, the story, whatever.
<there is a lot of snipping or editing by me but to just to save space >
> If we look at personal directors, as you mentioned Peter Greenway and
Terry
> Gilliams, I think in both Western and Eastern cinema scenes, most personal
> directors would use color in creative ways. Look at the color films by
> Fellini,
> Passolini, and Andrew Tarkovsky
I do not think I have heard of Tarkovsky?
(there are many more...), their visual
> expression in general and their use of color in particular are stunning
and
> breathtaking. In Japan, when Ozu wanted to make a colore film: "Good
> Morning," he had a lot fun playing with colors. Takeshi Kitano is
obssessed
> with color "blue" and his films more often than not are visually arrested.
I believe the only Kitanao films I have seen are Hana-bi and Sonatine (?)
Blue seems to be a popular colour in general in terms of 'colourwash' but
really its the composition of colours
thats appealing as apposed to just one overall wash. I suppose we could
throw in 'Rumble Fish' for inventive colour use but I see your point about
personal filmakers. I think its more than the personal element though , Ken
Loach makes personal fims but there's no element of visionary exploration
there, they are powerful, (or not depending on opinion) for other reasons.
> > BTW, have you seen "The City of Lost Children"? It's directed by Jeunet
&
> Caro (the "whover" made "Delicatessen"). It's a little more bizzare than
> "Delicatessen" but still very good, IMO.
Snails & Dream Stealing ? yes, but I do not think I've seen it in entirety
as I saw it on TV only, and missed the beginning.
But that's exactly it, a sort of modern myth creation, and always
distinctive visual styling.
Y
deadmead
news:O8LE6.54$hf6....@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> Deadmead.....
<<about Green Snake sinp> >
I think I would have to talk about "Green Snake" in a separate, longer post.
> BTW, I've seen Brigette Lin in downtown Taipei twice. Not "surreal" at
all.
>
> You are in Taiwan?
I'm from Taiwan, and now I'm studying in the US. Recent years I can only go
back to Taiwan during the summer break.
When I was in Taiwan, I saw Brigette Lin. I remember the last time I saw
her,
a lucky fan happened to have a camera with her, and she took a picture with
Brigette right in downtoown Taipei.
<snip>
> I think perhaps I did not express myself clearly as yes, I was refering to
a
> genre within HK/Asian cinema, as the stylised use of colour that I've seen
> seems to appear more in historical/fantasy/wuxia type fims. I love OUATIC
> and think that has high production values but I don't think it
demonstrates
> the same characteristics in visual styling (just for example).
sorry to misunderstand you (as one of the regular posters once
pointed out, I need to work on English reading comprehehsion).
Then, yes, in personal films and those genres you mentioned, the
stylised use of color is frequently there, but as I said, if you happen
to see a very low quality film of these genres, you probably won't
see the kind of "stylish color."
BTW, forgot to mention last time, Patrick Tam was another
important filmmaker, alongside Tsui Hark, who contributed to
the stylish visual expression in HK cinema. His directing debut
"The Sword" is one of the most stylish wu-xia movies ever. Then,
from "Love Massacre," "Nomad," "Final Victory," "Burning Snow"
to "My Heart is that Eternal Love," his visual style (inculding
the stylised use of color) had been more and more stunning.
Many would probably consider him as a personal director, but,
to me, he is a boraderline figure, between Tsui Hark / Jonnie To
type of filmmakers and and Ann Hui / WKW / Stanely Kwan
type.
As for OUATIC, to me, it's stylish, but in a different way than
films such as "Green Snake." If compared OUATIC to most
Hollywood mainstream productions, I think we can see
OUATIC is much more stylish visually.
<snip>
>
> > If we look at personal directors, as you mentioned Peter Greenway and
> Terry
> > Gilliams, I think in both Western and Eastern cinema scenes, most
personal
> > directors would use color in creative ways. Look at the color films by
> > Fellini,
> > Passolini, and Andrew Tarkovsky
>
> I do not think I have heard of Tarkovsky?
Andrei Tarkovsky (a Russian filmmaker) is among my favorite
directors (he and John Cassavettes are my favorite Western
directors. I have a lot of "favorites" of course, but these two
are the "most").
Most of his films are avaliable in video forms (VHS and DVD)
in the US. Both his B&W and color films are breathtakingly
beautiful and "poetic," or "lyrical" even. His "Nostalghia" is
THE most "visually arrested" movie I've ever seen.
> I believe the only Kitanao films I have seen are Hana-bi and Sonatine (?)
> Blue seems to be a popular colour in general in terms of 'colourwash' but
> really its the composition of colours
> thats appealing as apposed to just one overall wash. I suppose we could
> throw in 'Rumble Fish' for inventive colour use but I see your point about
> personal filmakers. I think its more than the personal element though ,
Ken
> Loach makes personal fims but there's no element of visionary exploration
> there, they are powerful, (or not depending on opinion) for other reasons.
There's "stylised use of color" and there's "stylish visual expression."
And there are many ways other than "color" to make a film look
stylish. Yet, when making a color film, most "visually oriented" filmmakers
would consider "color" as a big part of their image composition.
And whether a film is "visually arrested," I think it's a highly subjective
matter. To me, both "Hana-bi" and "Sonatine" are pretty stylish in terms
of filmic form. From his "A Scene At the Sea" (his third movie in which
he found the "right formula" of his cienmatic style) on, the color "Blue"
has been the dominant color in terms of image composition in Kitano's
films. Kitano's seemingly realistic style may lead one to ignore the
stylised use of color in his films. For example, in "Sonatine," the
stylised color red in the traditional Japanese singing / dancing
sequence, the Frisbee / flowers dissolving, and the blood; then we
have the blue moon, blue sea, blue sky and blue car. In Kitano's
movie, blue isn't just "colourwash," it is a major visual motif, a
marked color; like in "Sonatine," the color "Blue" signifies the
death and liberation at the same time.
I would agree that not all the personal directors would explore
the visual elements of cinema, but, based on my viewing experience,
personal directotrs, especially those who mainly rely on visual and
audio signs (rather than scripts) to tell the story, more often than not,
would explore the visual possiblity of cinema to "the end of the line"
(they will get different results or how much they can achieve as
visual storytellers" based on how talented they are as filmmakers). Most
personal directors don't just "direct" the acting while shooting; they get
involved in all the aspects of filmmaking process.
>
> > > BTW, have you seen "The City of Lost Children"? It's directed by
Jeunet
> &
> > Caro (the "whover" made "Delicatessen"). It's a little more bizzare than
> > "Delicatessen" but still very good, IMO.
>
> Snails & Dream Stealing ? yes, but I do not think I've seen it in entirety
> as I saw it on TV only, and missed the beginning.
> But that's exactly it, a sort of modern myth creation, and always
> distinctive visual styling.
I once caught it on a pay cable channel (showtime and cinemax alike),
and it was dubbed into English! Is the TV version you saw also dubbed?
Anyway, I get it on DVD now; I like this one a lot.
planetclaire
> > > > BTW, have you seen "The City of Lost Children"? It's directed by
> Jeunet
> >
> > Snails & Dream Stealing ? yes, but I do not think I've seen it in
entirety
> > as I saw it on TV only, and missed the beginning.
>
> I once caught it on a pay cable channel (showtime and cinemax alike),
> and it was dubbed into English! Is the TV version you saw also dubbed?
> Anyway, I get it on DVD now; I like this one a lot.
Sorry nearly couldn't find the post!
As I remember it I saw a subtitled version of 'City of Lost Children' and I
can't honestly say whether it was on TV or not, I'm pretty sure it was a
Channel 4 effort which means the subtitles would make sense as they normaly
show things in the original language.
Certainly 'Visually arresting' and I always associate snails with a friend
of mine so it had an appealing vibe.
I looked up Tarkovsky on IMDB and 'Solaris' rings a bell. I thought for a
minute he may have been the guy who did a film I've been trying to track
down for ages, sorry don't know the name of it. I think it was black and
white and there was a lot of sheep running through derelict streets and
shots of people rioting. The main jist was perception and barriers in that
it was largely about a group of people who were trapped in a house. Atleast
they thought they were, althought there was nothing actually stopping them
from leaving other than the fact that no one was prepared to take the first
step through the door. Meanwhile outside a group of people was similarly
stuck at the gate trying to reach them but no one actually tried walking
through he gate in to the driveway. It was only when a sheep (alot of sheep
in the film, none to subtle an allegory) entered the room that people
realised they could actually leave.
As a colleague of mine is want to say, "People are sheep: if you lead them
they will come" :-)
Probably not Tarkovsky though... don't really know why I thought it might be
and I can't even remember what language it was in.
(Perhaps you know it anyway as you appear to be a veritable mine of
information?)
Y
deadmead
Angel" (1962), my favorite Bunuel film (in fact, one of my
all-time favorite films). Bunuel's B&W films, to me, are
generally better than his color films in terms of
visual expression and style. In his B&W films, he's more
stylish and "surrealistically beautiful." "Angel" is among
his best B&W films, alongside with "Viridiana." He's making
"surrealistic" films, but he always constructs a pretty "realistic"
cinematic aura for his films. Magical. The riot and sheeps
appear by the end of the film. The whole narrative is, as
many other Bunuel's narrative films, about a group of
Bourgeoisie. I don't know whether you've seen this film
before (or you heard of it and tried to track it down?), and
so I don't want to further spoil the film.
Bunuel and Tarkovsky are very different filmmakers. Tarkvosky
is a more "serious" filmmaker, with a "heavy and deep soul."
Most his films have very serious and complicated major themes,
and his "slow and heavy" filmic style would probably put most
Hollywood mainstream moviegoers into sleep in 1 minute.
Bunuel, however, constantly uses "staire" as his device of
socio-political criticism. If you get his staire, you would
laugh a lot watching his films (something probably would
never happen when watching a Tarkovsky film). Bunuel also
had a very deep, sophisticated, and hevay soul, but he certainly
demonstrates it in a very different way from that of Tarkovsky.
They are both among the greatest filmmakers ever lived.
Anyway, all their films are worth viewing, and "The
Exterminating Angel" is certainly one of the best movies
I've seen.
deadmead
"planetclaire" <planet...@ukonline.co.uk> 撰寫於郵件
news:V0JG6.866$Bb1.1...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
>
> I looked up Tarkovsky on IMDB and 'Solaris' rings a bell. I thought for a
> minute he may have been the guy who did a film I've been trying to track
> down for ages, sorry don't know the name of it. I think it was black and
> white and there was a lot of sheep running through derelict streets and
> shots of people rioting. The main jist was perception and barriers in that
> it was largely about a group of people who were trapped in a house.
Atleast
> they thought they were, althought there was nothing actually stopping them
> from leaving other than the fact that no one was prepared to take the
first
> step through the door. Meanwhile outside a group of people was similarly
> stuck at the gate trying to reach them but no one actually tried walking
> through he gate in to the driveway. It was only when a sheep (alot of
sheep
> in the film, none to subtle an allegory) entered the room that people
> realised they could actually leave.
>
> As a colleague of mine is want to say, "People are sheep: if you lead them
> they will come" :-)
>
> Probably not Tarkovsky though... don't really know why I thought it might
be
> and I can't even remember what language it was in.
> (Perhaps you know it anyway as you appear to be a veritable mine of
> information?)
>
> Y
>
>
>
>
--
Luis Canau
...
>Probably not Tarkovsky though... don't really know why I thought it might be
>and I can't even remember what language it was in.
>(Perhaps you know it anyway as you appear to be a veritable mine of
>information?)
I believe you've described a film by Luis Buñuel, "El Angel Exterminador"
("The Exterminator Angel" or something...?), filmed in Mexico in 1962. It
should have been in Spanish.
--
luis canau_____
e-mail: not > net
www.cinedie.com
planetclaire
Luis Canau <Lu...@Canau.NOT> wrote in message
news:3af17bbc...@news.PT.KPNQwest.net...
> "planetclaire" <planet...@ukonline.co.uk> escreveu:
> ...
>
> I believe you've described a film by Luis Buñuel, "El Angel Exterminador"
> ("The Exterminator Angel" or something...?), filmed in Mexico in 1962. It
> should have been in Spanish.
>
Thanks! :-)
I caught this film while channel hopping in the early hours, they often show
more unusual films at odd times but the listings often just say the title
and director so if you have never heard about the film you might not switch
on and that's even if you spot it in the listing.
I was similarly transfixed when I bumped in to a film with a severe head
bouncing up and down outside a window which turned out to be Roman
Polanski's 'The Tenant' but 'Exterminating Angel' has remained a source of
mystery for years (until now, although I have yet to see it from the
beginning) .... a similar occurrence with a Jet Li film hooked me on Martial
Arts films and led me here to AANG.
Now I know what film I'm looking for I'll try and find it again, like I say,
the imagery may not have been subtle but it sure made me smile.
Just have to love the synchronicity of it all.
Y
Devil Plaything
Personally Bunuel bores the pants off me... never actually made it through
an entire film in fact (Film Four show his films v. regularly). Having had
the same synchronicity with Jet Li, I can recommend another similar one...
What Have I Done To Deserve This? by Pedro Almodovar (the viewing of which
should be followed by "Matador", then all his other films and those of his
protege Bigas Luna). That was one that I caught late night on BBC2, and
never thought I'd see it again until I described it to an ex-girlfriend many
years later and she enlightened me as to Almodovar and his genius. A
similar late night BBC2 random viewing followed by a many year delay is what
led me to John Irving (via The Hotel New Hampshire), which with startling
synchronicity is how we first got into conversation...
planetclaire
Devil Plaything <mrv...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MltH6.34509$Jh5.30...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
>
>A similar late night BBC2 random viewing followed by a many year delay is
what
> led me to John Irving (via The Hotel New Hampshire), which with startling
> synchronicity is how we first got into conversation...
>
>
I rest my case :-)
Y