Tsui Hark and Chinese cinema [long](was:OUATIC-First to be filmed that way?)
deadmead
news:3A3E3C98...@teleport-city.com...
>
> Most directors from Hong Kong (and now the world) owe a lot to Tsui
> Hark. He was a tremendous innovator and risk-taker, and his daring and
> creativity is what really revolutionized Hong Kong cinema at the
> beginning of the 1980s. Films like ZU and ACES GO PLACES completely
> changed the face of Hong Kong films, and there are very few films from
> the so-called "Hong Kong New Wave" that didn't have involvement from
> Tsui Hark. Chinese Ghost Story, Swordsman, The Killer, A Better
> Tomorrow, Once Upon a Time in China, the list goes on and on.
>
> Tsui's problem was that he alienated and angered many of the people with
> whom he worked, which is not uncommon for directors of his type. As
> such, as the days marched on, he found himself with fewer and fewer
> outlets. Like all innovators, he was less well known abroad than the
> imitators and the people he put on the map. Think about the biggest
> stars from Hong Kong working in Hollywood. John Woo and Chow Yun-fat
> both had their action careers jump-started by A Better Tomorrow. Jet Li
> was a star because of the three Shaolin Temple films, but he became a
> megastar after Once Upon a Time in China. If not for Tsui Hark pushing
> the envelope, it's likely Yuen Wo-ping would have ended his career
> directing low budget kungfu films.
>
> I think older fans and people who follow the industry recognize just how
> tremendous Tsui Hark's impact has been (for better and for worse, as
> many old school fans did not care for the new wave style). I was just
> reading an interview with Rob Van Dam (no relation), an ECW wrestler who
> is starring in BLACK MASK II, and half the interview was him going on
> about how huge this Tsui Hark guy is and how cool his films are, how he
> revolutionized Asian movie-making, etc etc etc. Rob is a pretty
> conceited guy, so to hear him devote so much of an interview to Tsui
> Hark instead of talking about himself is just one example of how much of
> an impression Tsui can still make.
>
> Unfortunately, Tsui Hark sort of dug his own grave. He was marvelous,
> but he did so much that was so good it's going to prove difficult, if
> not totally impossible, for him to ever top any of it. What do you do
> when you've already made the films he's made, produced the films he's
> produced, made the stars he's made? He still manages to impress (THE
> BLADE was one of the best films of the last decade), but it must be
> getting harder and harder to do something original.
>
> --
> Ol' BattleMonkey
> The Innovator of Extreme RiverDance
> This is NOT Your Father's RiverDance!
Thanks for the great post, and here I just want to add something about Tsui
Hark and Chinese cinema.
IMO, how Western world would see Tsui Hark eventually is beyond speculation,
but, from the stand-point of
"Chinese" cinema, he shall eventually be considered as one of the most
influential and important Chinese
filmmakers ever. Tsui Hark is important not just to HK cinema, but to
Chinese cinema as a whole. As HK has
been the captial of Chinese commercial cinema for over 40 years, most people
would see HK productions as
HK cinema, but in fact the HK movies now most people watch have their roots
in the grand Chinese cinema
tradition established in the 1930s, and in traditional Chinese drama and
literature. Tsui Hark, IMO, is by far
the only Chinese director has the capacity to generate novelty from the
mixure of classic elements, be they the
cinematic ones, dramatic ones or literary ones.
It all started at 1930s. When, from the perspective of Chinese leftist
artists at that time, Chinese cinema was
"a basically Western art form brought to China by foregin businessmen in the
wake of Western imperialism,"
Chinese movie business took off in Shainghai. Western art form, yes, and
thus we had Chinese Hollywood
style of tear-kerking melodramas, screwball comedy, and musicals. Yet, the
content was Chinese in essence.
just like the first Chinese film was a documentary of May Lang Fung's peking
opera performance. During 1938
and 1945, because of the war between China and Japan, several major studios
moved to the "peaceful" HK.
After the war all major studios moved to HK and led by Yueng-Hwua studio,
Hong Kong Free Cinema Society
was established and since then, HK has become the captial of Chinese
commercial cinema. This is the root for
all the HK productions we're watching today, and Tsui Hark is a part (a
major part, to me) of this grand tradition.
Tsui Hark was a part of the HK new wave during the late 70s and early 80s (a
little earlier than Taiwan new wave).
Ulike Hung Ann, who also survived the Wave but doesn't fit into commercial
filmmaking very well, Tsui Hark started
out within the tradition of Chinese narrative cinema and has remained
himself as a "studio" (not WKW type) filmmaker
and has never this tradition. Looking at the almost "countless" movies he
inolved in, we'll see that he is not only in the
tradition, but also create novelty by mixing up the traditional elements and
venturing to "re-cook the old rice." Below are
just few examples:
Two of, IMO, the most innovative Wu-Xia films are directed by him: his first
film "The Butterfly Murders" and "The Blade."
Unlike WKW's "Ashes of Time" and Ang Lee's CTHD, which are more a personal
Wu-Xia films, these two movies ARE Wu-Xia
movies within the grand Wu-Xia genre; yet, Tsui Hark managed to reflect on
this very genre and made two unconventional great
Wu-Xia films. Especially "The Blade," in addition to "rationalizing"
mysterious Wu-Kung, Tsui Hark deconstructs the romantic
notion of the spirit of knight errant and display what knight errants may
really be.
In 1981, his "All the Wrong Clues," with its almost unpredecent richness in
filmic signs, sharp editing, and smooth camera movement
(in Chinese cinema history), shocked almost every critic at that time. Not
to mention his creativity in blending film noir and gangster
films and make a great satire out of the mix. Many clones were released
during 81 and 85.
When the Musicals (once the most popular) were out of sight in the Chinese
movie scene in 1984, Tsui Hark made "Nights of Hong Kong,"
blending melodrama, neo-realistic cinema, and musicals together.
In 1986, Tsui Hark not only produced "A Better Tommorrow" (which engendered
a brand new movie genre "Hero" films [modern
Wu-Xia]), but also made "The Peking Opera Blues," blending the "Spy" and
"early-Republic China period" film genre (both were
popular TV and movie genre in the late 70s in Taiwan and Hong Kong), and
gave these two genres a brand new look. Also, fusing
the performance and life stories of Peking Opera actors (other other local
dramatic forms) is nothing new in Chinese cinema, but
it had never been shown in such an exciting fashion. To a Chinese audience,
this film was a both a surprise and a nostalghia.
1987, he produced "A Chinese Ghost Story" (to me, Tsui Hark is the "real"
author of this film), and again, which was a Chinese ghost
movie that a Chinese audience had never seen before, and its filmic forms
(such as camera movement and angles) has become
the "norm" for many HK productions since then. More importantly, it was
1986, not far from the end of Taiwan new wave, it was a time
when the Chinese cinema almost lost contact with traditional Chinese
literature. Tsui Hark went back to one of the greatest Chinese book
to find his inspiration. "A Chinese Ghost Story" is based on "Nieh
Hsiao-Tsing" (a short story form Pu Sung-ling's "Tales of the Unusual
from the Leisure Studio"). This film was not only based on a traditional
Chinese short story, but also went back to the "root" of Chinese
ghost story as a literary and dramatic genre. This tradition is different
from the conventional "ghost" film genre (which is a Chinese type of
"horror" movie): majority of traditional Chinese ghost stories are not
"scary" at all, and essence of the story is to document (depict) the unusual
encounter between non-humans and humans.
and in 1993, finally he himself directed "Green Snake." This film is based
on the novel "Green Snake" written by Lillian Lee, the co-writer of the
script of
this film. And the novel is Lillian Lee's version of "Eternal Prisoner Under
the Thunder Pagoda," one of the best known Chinese short stories.
This short sotry, known by most Chinese as "Madame White Snake" has been
transformed into numorous Chinese local stage dramas, and
modern day TV dramas. Before "Green Snake," there are at least four "White
Snake" movies. Most people didn't read the original, and the
knowledge of this story, for many people, are from stage dramas, TV dramas,
and movies. In other words, Madame White Snake" is sort
of a "genre" itself. Tsui Hark's movie version twists the original story
just like Lillian's novel, but transcends both. This is the first Chinese
film I've seen that so deeply fuse lust , complusion, and morality with the
thought of Chinese Zen: in the end, Green Snake going back to the
state of innocence in which no Order can "see" her as guilty.
There are more, such as his "Butterfly Lovers," reconstrcuting one of the
most popular Chinese movie ever, a collective memory of the Chinese
outside mainland China. And I don't need to say more about "Once Upon A Time
In China" and "The Swordman" which are often discussed
in this NG. Putting Tsui Hark's body of works and all the Chinese dramatic,
literary and filmic genres together, we'll see no one in the history
of Chinese cinema had ever done what he has achieved. and I doubt there
would be another "Tsui Hark" in the future. Of course, he didn't
cover all the genres (in fact, no one can when facing a culture as old as
Chinese culture). In the areas he has touched, very few other directors
working in the very genre could be compared to him.
All told, "eventually," Tsui Hark might not be judged as a great (not even
"good") filmmakers by art-personal-movie-fetishizing critics, but for
anyone who looks at the big picture, the Chinese cinema (and Chinese
culture) as a whole, he IS one of the most influential and important
"movie man" in the Chinese cinema history.
deadmead
Websurfer
Most of her movies are boring except "Summer Snow"
only because of the great and charming performance
Josephine Siao Fong Fong.
The movie also won 6 out of 9 nominated HK film awards
and 2 Berlin International Film Festival awards.
PTN
Well, a lot, and a lot of good stuff, too; but I thought I might comment on
a few points which I personally disagree with. Not to say what's right or
wrong, just a different interpretation.
>It all started at 1930s. When, from the perspective of Chinese leftist
>artists at that time, Chinese cinema was
>"a basically Western art form brought to China by foregin businessmen in
the
>wake of Western imperialism,"
<snip>
This first part is all true, but I don't see how it's relevant to Tsui Hark.
Or at least, it isn't any more relevant to him than to any other HK
filmmaker.
>Ulike Hung Ann, who also survived the Wave but doesn't fit into commercial
>filmmaking very well, Tsui Hark started
>out within the tradition of Chinese narrative cinema and has remained
>himself as a "studio" (not WKW type) filmmaker
>and has never this tradition.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying Tsui Hark never made an 'art'
film, and instead made commercial films in an exceptional manner. Perhaps
you are forgetting "Don't Play with Fire" aka "Dangerous Encounters - 1st
Kind." That he never followed up on the promise of this film came as a
disappointment to many critics, but moviegoers and HK Cinema as a whole
certainly benefitted from his switch to popular filmmaking.
>In 1981, his "All the Wrong Clues," with its almost unpredecent richness in
>filmic signs, sharp editing, and smooth camera movement
>(in Chinese cinema history), shocked almost every critic at that time. Not
>to mention his creativity in blending film noir and gangster
>films and make a great satire out of the mix. Many clones were released
>during 81 and 85.
I agree his "All the Wrong Clues" is a landmark. But I also think the Cinema
City films were a collective effort. Of all of them, Tsui Hark's films stand
out as the most superior by far, but he worked within a very strict
framework laid down by the Cinema City boardmembers, which included things
like how many jokes per reel, how each reel would end, and so on.
>(for A Chinese Ghost Story) Tsui Hark went back to one of the greatest
Chinese book
>to find his inspiration. "A Chinese Ghost Story" is based on "Nieh
>Hsiao-Tsing" (a short story form Pu Sung-ling's "Tales of the Unusual
>from the Leisure Studio").
Annoyingly, Tsui Hark only went as far back as a previous movie version of
the tale for his inspiration. But I guess you can't expect writers and
directors to be pouring over old books all the time.
Tsui Hark's strength lies in innovating genre cinema. Perhaps he is unable
to make an art film, or a straight drama, very well. But put him in a tight
genre cage, give him an outline, say "You have to include this, this, and
this," and the final product, though nothing like what one would expect,
comes out in every way superior.
As a final thought, you have left out what is arguably the most important
part of his contribution to HK Cinema -- the introduction of western special
effects and film techniques. That he mined Chinese tradition and history to
craft his movies is commendable, but one can find that throughout the
history of HK film. On the other hand, his combo of Chinese culture with
Western special effects and know-how, then laying on top a great big sloppy
pile of Tsui Hark overengerized nuttyness -- this is what made him unique,
and affords him a permanent place in the history of HK Cinema.
-- Peter
The Illuminated Lantern
http://www.illuminatedlantern.com
December - January 2001: Christianity in China
deadmead
"Websurfer" <Webs...@nospam.com> ?????
news:3A4410D4...@nospam.com...
yes, it's Ann Hui. I've never been good at translating Chinese names into
English.
well, I think we got different feelings about her works. "Summer Snow" for
me is her
second best film in the 1990s. The best is "Ordinary Heroes" which is almost
as good
as her HK new wave classic. IMO, her best works came out of new wave period:
Tje Secret (1979), The Spooky Bunch" (1980) and "The Boat People" (1982). In
between these and "Summer Snow" and "Ordinary Heroes," "The Story of Woo
Viet" the two Wu-Xia movies The Book & The Sword I & II, and "Song of Exile"
are all "decent" films, and they are not boring to me at all.
deadmead
>
>
>
deadmead
"PTN" <petern...@gmx.de> 撰寫於郵件
news:920snl$5s4of$1...@ID-7546.news.dfncis.de...
> deadmead wrote in message ...
>
> Well, a lot, and a lot of good stuff, too; but I thought I might comment
on
> a few points which I personally disagree with. Not to say what's right or
> wrong, just a different interpretation.
>
> >It all started at 1930s. When, from the perspective of Chinese leftist
> >artists at that time, Chinese cinema was
> >"a basically Western art form brought to China by foregin businessmen in
> the
> >wake of Western imperialism,"
> <snip>
>
> This first part is all true, but I don't see how it's relevant to Tsui
Hark.
> Or at least, it isn't any more relevant to him than to any other HK
> filmmaker.
I left something unsaid because it would get involved with too many other
things.
The major point here is there was two cinematic paradigms in Chinese cinema
of
the 1930s. Leftist and the "mainstream," and HK is the extension of the
mainstream
paradigm.
>
> >Ulike Hung Ann, who also survived the Wave but doesn't fit into
commercial
> >filmmaking very well, Tsui Hark started
> >out within the tradition of Chinese narrative cinema and has remained
> >himself as a "studio" (not WKW type) filmmaker
> >and has never this tradition.
>
> If I understand you correctly, you are saying Tsui Hark never made an
'art'
> film, and instead made commercial films in an exceptional manner. Perhaps
> you are forgetting "Don't Play with Fire" aka "Dangerous Encounters - 1st
> Kind." That he never followed up on the promise of this film came as a
> disappointment to many critics, but moviegoers and HK Cinema as a whole
> certainly benefitted from his switch to popular filmmaking.
no, you didn't understand me correctly or I didn't say it clearly enough, to
say Tsui
Hark basically stays in the tradition of conventional narrative cinema
doesn't mean
he didn't make any "art" film. I didn't forget "Dangerous Encounters 1st
kind" which
even Taiwanese audience needed to wait til late 80s to the uncut version of
the film.
and in fact, "1st kind" isn't a complete "art-personal" film, it was one of
Tsui Hark's
adventures into diverse genres. There was a group of brutal/rape/violent
movies in the
late 70s and early 80s (some of them could be found in porn section of the
video shop
in Taiwan), that's Tsui Hark's adventure into that genre, and through
"disgusting" and
disturbing" forms to deliver serious social messages (of course also with
his filmic sign
experiments).
>
> >In 1981, his "All the Wrong Clues," with its almost unpredecent richness
in
> >filmic signs, sharp editing, and smooth camera movement
> >(in Chinese cinema history), shocked almost every critic at that time.
Not
> >to mention his creativity in blending film noir and gangster
> >films and make a great satire out of the mix. Many clones were released
> >during 81 and 85.
>
> I agree his "All the Wrong Clues" is a landmark. But I also think the
Cinema
> City films were a collective effort. Of all of them, Tsui Hark's films
stand
> out as the most superior by far, but he worked within a very strict
> framework laid down by the Cinema City boardmembers, which included things
> like how many jokes per reel, how each reel would end, and so on.
Yes, I left out this too (with struggle). And I agree with you. At that
time, Cinema City engaged in
this "box-office war" with Golden Harvest, and as a whole pulled out many
innovative,
and vivid movies; Tsui Hark was one of the important "bones." The real
"intented" "serious" movies
could avoid Cinema City's strick rules. At about the same time when
Taiwanese new wave got going,
Cinema City established a Taiwan brench and gave new and old (somewhat
talented) directors
opportiunity to make "non-commercial" films, and they didn't need to follow
those rules, their
most important task was to get Golden Horse Award! "All the Wrong Clues"
breezed through the Golden
Horse Award that year, and it indeed more Tsui Hark and less Cinema City.
Did you see the disatrous
"All the Wrong Spies"?
......................................snip..................................
...........................>
> As a final thought, you have left out what is arguably the most important
> part of his contribution to HK Cinema -- the introduction of western
special
> effects and film techniques. That he mined Chinese tradition and history
to
> craft his movies is commendable, but one can find that throughout the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> history of HK film. On the other hand, his combo of Chinese culture with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My point in the post is that Tsui Hark is great not in blending Chinese
traditions,
but in creating novelty in his blending. I pointed out in the first part of
my post,
there always has been Chinese traditions and cultures in Chinese cinema.
> Western special effects and know-how, then laying on top a great big
sloppy
> pile of Tsui Hark overengerized nuttyness -- this is what made him unique,
> and affords him a permanent place in the history of HK Cinema.
I left out this on purpose. That's not the focus of my post, and it has been
discussed a lot,
and I honestly don't think that's why he is important to "Chinese cinema"
(not HK cinema).
I prefer "Chinese" cinema because you cannot really separate HK cinema from
Chinese
cinema since it has been the captial of Chinese commercial cinema since
1945. The old
studio blood is still circulating in the veins of HK movies of 1990s and
2000.
deadmead
DaleWBerry
contributions. You've got a true film-buffs eye :)
It was nice to see someone bring in the 30's/leftist tradition that informed
his work during the formative years (if I got that right),and its interesting
that you bring up BUTTERFLY MURDERS and THE BLADE, his first and most recent
takes on wuxia. I thought,at the time,BUTTERFLY MURDERS was quite
revisionist...it injected a dark weariness into the existentialism and
'heightened-realism' of King Hu, and was different from other wuxia movies of
the period. It's impact could be felt at the time when other studios soon began
creating 'revisionist' wuxia films [THE SWORD,or the Shaw's KILLER
CONSTABLE,et.al.],with their attempts at hieghtened reality and a
cynical,bitter view of the jiang hu(sp?). It can still be seen and felt [in
ASHES OF TIME,ROMANCE OF BOOK AND SWORD,WHAT PRICE SURVIVAL?,etc.]. I thought
Tsui returned to the same territory with THE BLADE. The two are remarkedly
similar in their worldview:by involving us more in the character's emotional
losses than on feats of daring-do, the Martial World finally begins to feel
like the tragic place its always referred to as, and not the fantasy-world
where its *fun* to fly-about,fighting and dying(as so many 'action films' would
have it). It feels more true. It's like mixing King Hu with Goddard,and
sprinkling it with Sergio Leone and amphetamines [did I say that? excuse me...
;)].
And this is just his approach to wuxia. His other contributions are just as
memorable. I must say Tsui Hark isn't a 'fetish' for me,but he is probably my
favorite director. Thank you for the entire thread,peoples. [Final thought: his
introduction of Western spcl fx also should be counted as another of his major
coups,as it eventually paved the way for HK's return to Popular World
Cinema,which is no small feat].
-Dale
deadmead
"DaleWBerry" <dalew...@aol.com> ?????
news:20001222220855...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> Many thanks,'deadmead',for providing such a firsthand take on Tsui Hark's
> contributions. You've got a true film-buffs eye :)
>
> It was nice to see someone bring in the 30's/leftist tradition that
informed
> his work during the formative years (if I got that right),
Generally speakling, the leftist tradition has greatly influenced most HK
new wave directors. In fact, the whole generation.
If you've seen Ann Hui's docuementary "As Time Goes By," you would know that
her generation (Tsui Hark is a part of)
generally was struggled between Western ideas and traditional Chinese
thoughts, and pretty much identified themselves
as the 30's leftist artists. Ann Hui's "Ordinary Heroes", to me, is so great
a film becasue Ann Hui reflects on what she was
in the 70s, and what has been the reality from 70s to 90s.
and its interesting
> that you bring up BUTTERFLY MURDERS and THE BLADE, his first and most
recent
> takes on wuxia. I thought,at the time,BUTTERFLY MURDERS was quite
> revisionist...it injected a dark weariness into the existentialism and
> 'heightened-realism' of King Hu, and was different from other wuxia movies
of
> the period. It's impact could be felt at the time when other studios soon
began
> creating 'revisionist' wuxia films [THE SWORD,or the Shaw's KILLER
> CONSTABLE,et.al.],with their attempts at hieghtened reality and a
> cynical,bitter view of the jiang hu(sp?).
yes, "Butterfly Muders" was one of the earthquakes initiated by HK new wave
in creating
"counter-statement" to mainstream Wu-Xia movies. (and I only described
"Butterfly Murders"
and "The Blade" very shortly in that I was expecting you to fill in more).
In the late 70s and early
80s, both Taiwanese and HK films generally became "out of the world":
praising and constructing
sentimental and romantic dream world to extreme. and you're right that Tsui
Hark constructed a
different Wu-Xia world as reaction to the fantastic hero world.
It can still be seen and felt [in
> ASHES OF TIME,ROMANCE OF BOOK AND SWORD,WHAT PRICE SURVIVAL?,etc.].
Among the three, I think "Ashes of Time" is the weakest. IMO, the
out-of-reality Wu-Xia is a great
context for the narrative of WKW's personal love / lost story, and he takes
advantage from this context
to make his love / lost story look more magnificent than ever. Yet, he
doesn't really reflect on the idea
of Jiang hu and Wu-Xia genre. IMO, in "Ashes of Time," his cynical Jiang hu
is the sentimental metaphor
for love / lost relationships.
and the strongest is Romance of Book and Sword I & II. Based on Jin Yong's
Wu-Xia novel, Ann Hui
managed to give Wu-Xia world a pretty realistic look. Not in Tsui Hark's
fashion (constructing a Wu-Xia
world which resembles reality more than other Wu-Xia films), Ann Hui puts
those Jiang hu character into
historical content, and in the realistic political situation they are in,
the tragic result is inevitable. Considering
the theme and content, I think among all the post-80s Wu-Xia films, Ann
Hui's Romance of Book and
Sword I & II are the closest to King Hu's body of work.
I thought
> Tsui returned to the same territory with THE BLADE. The two are remarkedly
> similar in their worldview:by involving us more in the character's
emotional
> losses than on feats of daring-do, the Martial World finally begins to
feel
> like the tragic place its always referred to as, and not the fantasy-world
> where its *fun* to fly-about,fighting and dying(as so many 'action films'
would
> have it). It feels more true. It's like mixing King Hu with Goddard,and
> sprinkling it with Sergio Leone and amphetamines [did I say that? excuse
me...
> ;)].
Form "Butterfly Murders" to "The Blade," Tsui Hard matured a lot. Talking
about Godard mixed
with King Hu, did you see Tsui Hark actually show you the "wire" in
"Butterfly" and "The Blade"?
>
> And this is just his approach to wuxia. His other contributions are just
as
> memorable. I must say Tsui Hark isn't a 'fetish' for me,but he is probably
my
^^^^^^^
Since you still can tell when Tsui Hark hits and when he misses, I think
you're pretty "healthy."
deadmead
Websurfer
At the end of the movie where they have the June 4 Anniversary
at the Victoria Park, are the male and female actors together?
If not, why did the male actor leave the female actor?
deadmead
"Websurfer" <Webs...@nospam.com> 撰寫於郵件
news:3A47208E...@nospam.com...
In the end of the movie, Tung (the male) stays away from Sow (the female).
To me, the final scene in the park is a kind of visual eulogy which sums up
the whole film: the idealistic past of
Ann Hui's generation and the brutal reality that has been from the past to
now.
I like the ending a lot because it's so complicated (which means that there
are many ways to interpret it).
To me, as Tung associated with idealistic activitists, and then he became
one, he's experienced the complicated
interrelationship between "ideal" and "reality." In the "ideal" realm,
people (his comrades) are supposed to be "selfless,"
yet you can't really avoid "personal relationships" in the movement. Tung is
used to stay besides Sow or in the dark
to care and love Sow, keeping their relationship "pure" as idealistic
comardes. Yet, he does love her, and this love somehow
transcends personal love to "spiritual" love: identifying Sow through
comardship; that is, Sow becomes the symbolic icon for
Tung's action. In addition, deep down, Tung feels frustrated with Sow / the
leader realtionship (especially when Sow committed
suicide becasue of the relationship). Sow's suicide for the relationship
makes her "intent" for involving in the movement questionable:
she may just want to follow the leader, and personal interest is more
important than their cause (especially contrasted by
Peter Kam's [Anthony Wong] truelly idealistic and selfless motivation).
Since Sow in "reality" is imperfect, Tung would retreat from
her personal life and thus hold her "perfect" in the "idealistic" realm,
imagining Sow a symbolic receiver for his letters and listener for
his grwoing experience.
Tung would take care of Sow when she was "sick" (not herself) like he takes
care of the poor and the retard. Yet, when
she "wakes" up, Tung would retreat because she is herself again, and Tung
doesn't want to have "realistic" "personal" relationship
with her. To Tung, Sow signifies the "idealistic" code he holds, which is
unreal, idealistic and untouchable.
This is my way of seeing the ending, and I can only briefly describe it
becasue it's more complicated than that...
BTW, to me, "Ordinary Heroes" is so outstanding because Ann Hui blends her
"male" and "female" approaches together in
one film: complicated polticial and cultural observation with sophisticated
personal, psychological portrays (IMO, one of the
best Chinese-language movies in recent years along with HHH's "Flowers of
Shainghai" and Tsai Ming-liang's "Hole")
"The Boat People" best manifests Ann Hui's "male" approach ("Romance of The
Book and Soward" I&II are next to it), and
her first two classics "The Secret" and "The Spooky Bunch" are the best
representation of her "female" approach.
If it's possible (even I know it's very difficult), anyone who's interested
in Ann Hui should see "The Secret" and
"The Spooky Bunch."
deadmead
>
>
Websurfer
even more. Although I disagree with the actions of the Father Peter
Kam, I praise Ann Hui of bring this important subject into the big screen
Anthony Wong's acting is one of this best in this movie. No any other HK actors
are
as professional and versatile as Wong.
deadmead
"Websurfer" <Webs...@nospam.com> 撰寫於郵件
news:3A495750...@nospam.com...
> Thanks so much for the explanations. It makes me love the movie
> even more. Although I disagree with the actions of the Father Peter
> Kam, I praise Ann Hui of bring this important subject into the big screen
>
> Anthony Wong's acting is one of this best in this movie. No any other HK
actors
> are
> as professional and versatile as Wong.
Glad it helps and glad you asked. "Ordinary Heroes" is a kind of film that
you need to talk about it, review it, and
discover more and more about it.
Anthony Wong is perfect in this movie. In fact, the whole cast is great
except for Rachel Lee. Sometimes she looks
just so much like a "movie star" but not an "ordinary" person. As for
Anthony Wong, I don't know which one causes
which one (he is a great actor and so he is getting more and more good roles
to play or the other way around).
The character Father Peter Kam represents one of those extreme "idealists"
who have hyper romantic faith and belief
in socialism / communism, and thus he is "selfless" in that he devotes
himself totally to his cause. Tung isn't that extreme
because he was not old enough to feel the power of socialism in Hong Kong
(when he grew up, the communist policy
already apparently failed in mainland China). But to Father Peter's
generation (plus his background), he will believe that
socialism / communism would work if it is execuated in a "right" way.
If you have chance, you may want to check out "As Time Goes By," a TV
documentary made by Ann Hui around the
same time she was making "Ordinary Heroes." This documentatry would tell you
more about the personal, social, cultural,
and political factors underlying her works. And "As Time Goes By" did help
me a lot in "reading" "Ordinary Heroes" since
I grew up in Taiwan and didn't have personal experience of what Ann Hui has
experienced.
deadmead
Eric Chang ~{VY
to date her back when he was a photographer in New York, but she already
fancied my uncle who is a genius in his own right. I guess it was all
for the good since my aunt will probably kick Tsui's arse if he spent
too much time at the movieset and not enough time with her; then we won't
get to see all these great movies. They met while making a left-leaning
play at Columbia University.
Eric
><snip>
DaleWBerry
strong women ;)]
btw,what play were they working on together? I can only imagine a Tsui
Hark-involved production of "Mother Courage" or Ibsen's "Enemy of the
People"[sorry,imagination's working overtime...]
-DB
Eric Chung-Hui Chang
play. She was the female lead I believe. It was during the late sixties
with wrong-headed youthful idealism. My aunt and uncle
got into trouble with the Taiwan KMT government for these activities and
could not go back to Taiwan until much later.
Eric
In article <20001227202509...@ng-fn1.aol.com>,
DaleWBerry <dalew...@aol.com> wrote:
>What a fabulous story! [Its nice to see Tsui has always retained a taste for
>strong women ;)]
>btw,what play were they working on together? I can only imagine a Tsui
>Hark-involved production of "Mother Courage" or Ibsen's "Enemy of the
>People"[sorry,imagination's working overtime...]
>
>-DB
>
>
>>From: ecc...@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Chang ~{VY)
>>Date: 12/27/00 2:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: <92dorg$kj9$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>
>>
>>Wow! I didn't know Tsui Hark was that great. My aunt says Tsui wanted
>>to date her back when he was a photographer in New York, but she already
>>fancied my uncle who is a genius in his own right. I guess it was all
>>for the good since my aunt will probably kick Tsui's arse if he spent
>>too much time at the movieset and not enough time with her; then we won't
>>get to see all these great movies. They met while making a left-leaning
>>play at Columbia University.
>>
>>Eric
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Websurfer
IMO she is still using the same kind of directing skills
as her days in HK public TV station when she made
TV documentaries there many years ago.
dead...@my-deja.com
Ann Hui isn't an innovating stylist like Tsui Hark, and yes, basically
she has used the same filmic form / style since the late 70s. Yet,
this "realistic" approach (which made her TV works and new wave works
so refreshing to HK cinema) is probably the best style to convey her
sophisticated content and ideas. Sometimes, the most simple filmic form
would convey the deepest emotion and most passionate, yet sophisticated
human motion and action. I see this "form is emptiness; emptiness is
form" thing in Ozu's body of works, Krzysztof Kieslowski's A SHORT FILM
ABOUT LOVE, Fassbinder's ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL, Wenders' KINGS OF THE
ROAD, Victor Erice's THE SPIRIT OF BEEHIVE and such. I also see that in
Ann Hui's better works.
deadmead
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