Jave 1.1a , remarks and suggestions
Christian 'CeeJay' Jensen
But it's not perfect.
* [Watermark]
- Needs an option to revert to original shape ( like shape factor in the image
converter )
- On watermark option there should be a checkbot or button to show/hide the
watermark - I know it's in the menu too , it just seems intuitive if it where in
the options too
- Watermarks (with on/off) in the imageconverter.
- Option in imageconverter to apply a watermark to the drawing area with the
same position shape and size as the converted output - Thats what I usually use
a watermark for .. for detailwork on converted images.
* [Text tool]
- MOST WANTED FEATURE (my most wanted , I can't speak for everybody else) , The
ability to select text just like in a texteditor if you keep the mousebutton
pressed and drag it over a certain distance. Well actually not like most
texteditors as they select based on lines .. I need selection like the selection
tool does it (and like TextPad 4, with block select mode does it)
The two tools ( text and selction ) could even be combined into one tool.
But seriously , I want to type, cut, copy, paste and move without ever having to
change tool all the time.
Until I can , then Textpad is still my prefered editor for ascii-art
- Jave/Normal is what most people know as Insert/Overwrite (where Jave is
Overwrite).
I suggest renaming the two modes to Overwrite/Insert and assign the Insert key
as a toggle button between the two. Also show the status in the bottom status
bar status.
Insert could also toggle mix in all the other modes .. the problem would then be
, that it would be odd that it toggled something else in the text tool
* [image convertor]
The experimental B/W convertos can ddo fine jobs on very simple images ..
typically black and white ones with little detail.
Specificly I like the output of the Thick and Thin & Thick modes.
An idea .. could the convertor detect lines or areas with high contrast and have
the b/w mode of choice draw just the edges (because thick / thin makes very good
edges) and use another algorithm for the rest of the image .. My preferred shade
algorithm is the one i suggested myself , the 1 pixel 8Oo:. (other combinations
like this are good too f.x 8o:. or #8O:. )
- The standard window is to narrow to completely display everything
The shape factor [ 1.0 ] box is partially hidden and so is some of the
conversion dropdown menu
- Colored output ? .. for export to html
This probably requires a colorpaint mode in jave too - but one could also have a
color watermark determine the color of the pixels below it when exporrting
* [ Jave movie editor ]
- (all the advanced commands i mentioned earlier for the player)
- How about an option to loop the file ?
- Jave Movie should be an option in the Export dialog
- Option to export to complete webpage or just HTML (from the movie editor)
So it makes all the <APPLET> tags and etc ..
Possibly also save a copy of the applet along side with the html
- The top images flickers
- Ability to watermark certain frames , so smooth natural animations are easier
to create.
I see 3 good different modes : Previous Frame , Following frame , Specific
frame (a fixed specific frame used as watermark )
Possibly have buttons to quickly switch watermark between the modes ( with a
text field to type the number of the specific , and maybe also click on the
specific frame to use )
- color (specific for each char .. but this is mayor and requires that jave get
a color edit functionality .. it seems like some work and not a feature people
needs the most (not a big priority for me anyways) )
Besides .. it requires extentions to the jmov format
- Move movie display to main javewindow and keep frame index and buttons in a
tool window, so you can view and edit in the same window .. it seems more
intuitive to do it this way.
And it makes it a lot quicker to edit a movie
* [3D renderer]
- More shading options f.x ( #8o:. )
- There is a serious need for a modeler or import from a know modeler .. editing
3D coordinated by hand isn't really userfriendly
- more ways to set the camera, not just rotate it round the y axis but also the
x and z axis
The easyiest/best way would be to control the camera like most 3D shooters.
My suggestion of controls :
Mouse controls view (mouselook) .. with possibilty to invert y axis
w/UP = Forward
s/DOWN = backwards
a/LEFT = strafe left
d/RIGHT = strafe right
Right mouse button = move/strafe up
SHIFT = move/strafe down (you might have expected the left mouse button , but I
use this method in all my 3D shooters and sims)
Left mouse button = take snapshot ( copy this image as a jave movie frame )
Space = Toggle Auto snapshot ( takes snapshots as you move so you can record
movement as an animation )
Jave might need faster 3D rendering for this, possibly it could draw in simple
wireframe or just draw the image in ordinary pixels and only asciify when a
shapshot is taken
- More primaries as demos .. I like your balls (pun intended)
- an area to click in , hold mouse button and drag mouse left/right - up down to
spin the object (actually move the camera) - Like thoose 360 degree Quicktime
videos.
The same concept could be applied to the movie editor as a quick way of moving
between frames .. using your mouse to both create an animation and also to find
the frame you need.
It could also be applied as a special option to movies in the player - cycling
frames by moving the mouse .. this combined with a looping 360 3D ascii movie
could make thoose 360 views.
It seems I can go on with idea as I only had the some of the watermark and
texttool idea when I began writing this ..
I have more but I must stop now to free myself for other work.
I think I can be credited as the biggest contributor of suggestions so far to
Jave *g* .. if you exclude Markus who dont ever seem to post his ideas for
discussion .. he just bullies them on the rest of us with a surprise update *gg*
:)
I dont want to get in the Open source discussion , i'm quite satisfied with the
progress that markus makes own his own , and I doubt there are many other java
programmers out there interested in ascii-art and this program with the will and
time to make frequent updates like Markus does.
Markus Gebhard is a godsend in that respect and I doubt there is another
Skywalker.
Sincerly
CeeJay
Markus Gebhard
>
> It's good .. it's VERY good .. best Ascii - editor there is.
:-)
> But it's not perfect.
lol. It never will be perfect. But people like you help me making it
better and better...
Thanks again for sharing your ideas. I will comment on some of them, but
before I want to state that I will not have that much time for working
on the project than I had during the last few months. However, there are
still lots of things to do and I think I will do a lot of them - but I
will not add that much features any more.
> * [Watermark]
> - Needs an option to revert to original shape ( like shape factor in the image
> converter )
Maybe by holding down shift-key like with shapes? Will add this one to
my list.
> - On watermark option there should be a checkbot or button to show/hide the
> watermark - I know it's in the menu too , it just seems intuitive if it where in
> the options too
I think I will not add this option, for you also have the button in the
bottom bar and you can use keyboard shortcut Ctrl-P.
> - Watermarks (with on/off) in the imageconverter.
Hm... No bad idea. But too much work for too few gain.
> - Option in imageconverter to apply a watermark to the drawing area with the
> same position shape and size as the converted output - Thats what I usually use
> a watermark for .. for detailwork on converted images.
This one is a better idea. I will add it to my list (i.e. it has a fair
chance to be a feature in the future).
> * [Text tool]
> - MOST WANTED FEATURE (my most wanted , I can't speak for everybody else) , The
> ability to select text just like in a texteditor [...]
> The two tools ( text and selction ) could even be combined into one tool.
You are right, I have often thought about this one. But again it is not
that easy. I have to somehow combine those two tools. Each of them is
quite complex and it will take me some time to figure out how to actualy
implement it.
> Until I can , then Textpad is still my prefered editor for ascii-art
Is this a blackmail attempt? ;-)
> - Jave/Normal is what most people know as Insert/Overwrite (where Jave is
> Overwrite).
> I suggest renaming the two modes to Overwrite/Insert and assign the Insert key
> as a toggle button between the two. Also show the status in the bottom status
> bar status.
You are right, that's the way it is on any other system and I will do
that.
> Insert could also toggle mix in all the other modes .. the problem would then be
> , that it would be odd that it toggled something else in the text tool
I will not do that (do you need to toggle mix that often?).
> * [image convertor]
> The experimental B/W convertos can ddo fine jobs on very simple images ..
> typically black and white ones with little detail.
> Specificly I like the output of the Thick and Thin & Thick modes.
> An idea .. could the convertor detect lines or areas with high contrast and have
> the b/w mode of choice draw just the edges (because thick / thin makes very good
> edges) and use another algorithm for the rest of the image .. My preferred shade
> algorithm is the one i suggested myself , the 1 pixel 8Oo:. (other combinations
> like this are good too f.x 8o:. or #8O:. )
I am not going to work on the image converter the next few weeks. I have
done so much work about that and have done so much testig - I do not
think there is an easy way to get better results. I have also tried to
combine some kind of edge detection with shading (as you suggested) but
the result does not really look good in my opinion...
There are a lot of other people working on algorithms. Before I continue
working on it I would like to see in what way the results can be
improved. This is best done by a comparision between hand converted
images and automatically generated ones. Unfortunately the image2ascii
competition is not going very well...
> - The standard window is to narrow to completely display everything
> The shape factor [ 1.0 ] box is partially hidden and so is some of the
> conversion dropdown menu
You are right. I think I have to do something about the arrangement of
the options. Any ideas are welcome. Just making the window wider is no
good fix for that.
> - Colored output ? .. for export to html
No way. I also like colors, but it would make it all by far more
difficult than it is now. Maybe there is another good tool for
colorizing Ascii art - but I will not add color to Jave (isn't that
something I have already said about many features??).
> * [ Jave movie editor ]
> - (all the advanced commands i mentioned earlier for the player)
The player is open source. Feel free to add any option :-)
> - How about an option to loop the file ?
good idea.
> - Option to export to complete webpage or just HTML (from the movie editor)
> So it makes all the <APPLET> tags and etc ..
> Possibly also save a copy of the applet along side with the html
I have already thought about that, so it's on my list.
> - The top images flickers
I should think about doublebuffering there...
Is it enough to see 3 images as thumbnail or would you rather like to
see 5 of them?
> - Ability to watermark certain frames , so smooth natural animations are easier
> to create.
You can do that by keeping the last frame in the editor and switching
betweed documents by using Ctrl-Tab.
> - Move movie display to main javewindow and keep frame index and buttons in a
> tool window, so you can view and edit in the same window .. it seems more
> intuitive to do it this way.
That's right - but it is by far harder to implement it that way. But I
keep thinking about this and play around and we will se what comes out
in future...
> And it makes it a lot quicker to edit a movie
You are so right...
> * [3D renderer]
>
> - More shading options f.x ( #8o:. )
Right, did not yet have the time to add the editable choice with the
shades. BTW: I don't like # in combination with 8o:. for it does not
seem to look good with some fonts:
in my mail client I can see some OoOoooo:o
ugly spots here '#' OO8O8OOOOoOoo:o
``---...__ \ OOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.
```---`. O8O88#8#88O8OOoOoo::.
.' oOO88#8#8#88OOoOoo::.:.
oOO8O88#8#88O8OOoOoo::.:.
ooOOOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.:..
oOoOOOO8O8OOOOoOoo:o::...
:ooooOoOoOoooo:o::.:...
:ooooooooooo:o::.:...
:::o:o:o::::.:.....
:::::::.:.:....
.........
> - There is a serious need for a modeler or import from a know modeler .. editing
> 3D coordinated by hand isn't really userfriendly
Make a suggestion for a good and simple file format. I do not want to
write a 3d editor - I only wanted to play around with the idea of
rendering 3d in ascii. It should not be very hard to convert other
formats to my format. The only problem I am suffering from is that a
textbox can only keep about 30kB of text...
(If you are interested I can send you the data for an x-wing fighter).
> - more ways to set the camera, not just rotate it round the y axis but also the
> x and z axis
> The easyiest/best way would be to control the camera like most 3D shooters.
> ...
Again you are right - but I do not want to spend too much time on this
tool...
> Jave might need faster 3D rendering for this, possibly it could draw in simple
> wireframe or just draw the image in ordinary pixels and only asciify when a
> shapshot is taken
I think since 1.1a it is fast enough for most objects. Try the following
in the renderer: press one of the buttons for navigation and then use
the cursor keys to rotate/zoom.
> - More primaries as demos .. I like your balls (pun intended)
You are talking about those, ain't you?
OoOoooo:o
OO8O8OOOOoOoo:o
OOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.
O8O8888888O8OOoOoo::. 8O8OOoo
oOO888888888OOoOoo::.:.88O8OOoo:
oOO8O8888888O8OOoOoo::.:.8888OOoo::OOOoO:o
ooOOOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.:..8O8OOoo::..8OOoo::
oOoOOOO8O8OOOOoOoo:o::...O8OOoo:o::.8888oo::O8oo
:ooooOoOoOoooo:o::.:...oOoooo::.:..8OOoo::..8Ooo
:ooooooooooo:o::.:...oooo:o::.:..OOOoO:o::O8oo::
:::o:o:o::::.:......:.:.:.:... o:o:o::..:o::..
:::::::.:.:.... :.:.... :.:.:.. :.:..
.........
(it is not very hard to diddle this image to match the other meaning)
I like them, too. I think I will add a tutorial about how to create it
to the documentation (the one I am going to write the next weeks or
so...).
> It seems I can go on with idea as I only had the some of the watermark and
> texttool idea when I began writing this ..
:-) Feel free to add more. I will not comment on all of them but I will
read them and put the best on my list of ideas for Jave. I would also be
interested in what others do/do not like to see in Jave, but only few
people contribute to this topic...
> I think I can be credited as the biggest contributor of suggestions so far to
> Jave *g* ..
Again: that's so right :-)
> if you exclude Markus who dont ever seem to post his ideas for
> discussion .. he just bullies them on the rest of us with a surprise update *gg*
> :)
There are 3 options differing in speed:
1) I write others I will do something
-> it will take a month
2) I tell others I will do something
-> it will take a week
3) I do not tell others and simply start doing it
-> it will take a day
So I rather use option 3)...
...oops, this has taken a lot of time. I have to water my tomatoes...
\ \
| |
`\ ,- | |
`\ | ,.-'' | |
:o:o`o-b':. \ |
._ , OoO____oOoo:o:: '. |
`\ / /__,.===''''____'''''---._ | \
'|,=',-''' oOO8oOO8O8O8''--.._ '`-.| '.| _, ,
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ooOOOoo:: :o:o:o:o:o:o::.:... :o:o:o:o::.
::o::.. ::o:::o::::.:.. OoOoOoOoOoo:o::
..... .:...:..... oOoOoOoOOOoOoo::.:.
oOO8oOO8O8O8OOoo::.:.
ooOoooOoOOOoOoo::.:..
:ooO:ooOoOoOoo:o::...
._ ____ :o:o:o:o:o:o::.:...
----..____,....'-..........'=___ ::o:::o::::.:..
,,.---''-------------.....__ -..__ .:...:.....
_-'' /' ,-' '''''=,--._'`-./ |
,-'''. =------../__ ..._..,=' ._ /
| '| ../ \..__ ' '| \,/ `/ `---. - |
/- \__ ...,' -^ - -.... \ .
| |--''''..__ | '. ' \..._:. | |
\ ' '\:::' | | /
'-- - --' \:::_.--- | |
----- '
Markus
(who is not very proud about his image of a tomato, but who is very
proud about his tomato plant although he does not like to eat
tomatoes...)
Markus Gebhard
I enjoy playing around with it and even my girlfriend does :-)
Markus
--
Jave - Java Ascii Versatile Editor: http://www.jave.de
Image2Ascii competition 2001:
http://www.jave.de/image2ascii/competition2001/contributions.html
Lennert Stock
>BTW: What do you all think about the two surprises in the special menu?
>I enjoy playing around with it and even my girlfriend does :-)
Wonderful stuff, and hey, I even found more than two.
Not only does this ascii app put all others to shame,
in fact I can't remember when the last time was I was
as truly amazed when seeing a new piece of software.
Christian 'CeeJay' Jensen
I like the life simulator very much, you could make it a fine screensaver for
Unix's with a text-only display.
The effect is almost like a plasma generator - you could reuse the code for such
a tool in jave.
> I enjoy playing around with it and even my girlfriend does :-)
Pervert ! *lol*
BTW I knew there was something keeping you from coding on Jave non-stop.
Productivity tip : loose the girlfriend :) *g*
Unless she can code too ofcourse ;)
The world needs more women like Female Nerd ( www.femalenerd.com ) ..oO( hey
maybe shes free tomorrow for a movie ? - I'll call her and ask )