if the shoe fits (lyric)-read it first-then listen-poetry or not?
=z=
what's the matter my love
why such a sad face
you left your shoes out in the rain
barefoot in the wrong place
stand amid the broken glass
step softly where you go
you wouldn't want to cut yourself
but that's a thing only you would know, yea
come back inside my love
a storm might blow you away
you've sure been one hell of a ride and I
never knew quite what to say
whatever happened to your innocence
you misplaced it long ago
and never care about the consequence
passed out on your patio
it's a shame your heads a mess
and your souls been so abused
the quiet times are still loud as hell
and your life here so misused
looks like you made a wrong turn
somewhere along the line
a pipers tune led you away
and you missed that one way sign
don't try to run away
too many thorns are in that road
and did you have your pills today
to help you with that heavy load
well it's a drag you've had such pain
no one around you seems to care
they've all seen just what you got
and that can be had anywhere
you laugh and think that you're so cute
when in fact no one's amused
you can't recall what you did last night
and just stand there so confused
your mother's screaming on the phone
about something that you missed
you never will quite understand
it's no wonder you're so pissed
go back to sleep my love
let the dreams take you away
I guess you do what you have to do and
tomorrow's just another day
just remember that when you wake
and everything is still the same
you may change the way you look
but you can never, change your name
you will never, change your name
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
Poetry.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
...and cool song.
George Dance
Yes, I'd call it poetry. I'd call plenty of Dylan's lyrics poetry too,
though, which some would not. That's what this reminds me of: Dylan
circa the time of LaRS and P4St.
There's some telly parts -- "your (shd be youre) heads a mess / and
your souls been abused" -- but that's preceded by some vivid imagery
that puts the reader into the experience: She's outside in the rain,
barefoot, surrounded by broken glass. I got the idea from all that
that she's a binge drinker, the broken glass being a bottle or glass,
and that that (plus the pills) is how she gets through each day,
always coming back to the same thoughts.
I liked the ambiguity in some of the lines. For example:
> and never care about the consequence
> passed out on your patio
Is that "and never care about the consequence [that is] passed out on
your patio" (is her partner binging with her?) or "and never care
about the consequence [while you're] passed out on your patio"? In
that sense the lack of punctuation doesn't hurt, but helps. (I'm less
enthusiastic about the lack of apostrophes; consider putting them in.)
In that respect, the line I enjoyed best was the penultimate
> you may change the way you look
-- the last phrase meaning either, "the way you appear," or "the way
you look at things."
I didn't really understand the last line -- it's relatively easy for a
woman to change her name -- but I interpreted it as, "you can never
change who you really are" and it came across as OK that way. I don't
understand, though, why the commas after "never": I realize you pause
there in the song, but they do nothing in the written text but
distract, especially as they're the only punctuation.
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks BP/George. The only reason I brought it up is that I was
remembering a banter back and forth with hammes (I think it was
Dennis) about poets vs musicians where he said "I don't know why
musicians think they can be poets, they ought to just stay musicians"
or something like that...I felt it was more the other way around...
8 )
oh, yea George thanks for the crit...i should have paid more attention
to punctuation when I copied it over...plus you were right on all the
above...although the wording is not gender biased I did write it for
Jen...she was a drinker plus drug taker (thanks in part to her husband
at the time) the last line was like you said you can never really
change who you are inside as easy as one can change a name...the
commas should not have been in there...are you sure about the youre
thing? That seems more Europea/Canadian...
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jen, unfortunatly commited suicide several days after her 35th
birthday in 2005. I miss her a lot...
George Dance
In reverse order, to deal with the last point first: I reread the poem/
lyrics, and your (heh!) use of 'your' was correct throughout: "your
head", "your soul," "your mother," and (later) "you're so cute". I was
wrong about the first two, the result of hasty reading or whatever:
don't change either of those.
Thanks for the acknowledgement about the commas; as i see it, they
were just there to match the pauses in the song delivery, and didn't
belong. I'd rather you took them out. Which segues into punctuation in
general, since I remember us getting into that about a year or so ago.
I have no probem with your unpunctuated style in general; you use the
unpunctuated style well, using your line and stanza breaks instead:
your line endings match where I'd put commas, and your stanza endings
where I'd put periods. The only punctuation I'd urge you to add would
be some apostrophes: "your soul's" and "your head's" the same way as
"your mother's".
You probably don't read much prettystuzz, which is your concern not
mine, but I'd like to pass on a memory device if not a rule he have
me: "your head's" can be seen as short for "your head its" (which make
sense, since apostrophes get used for contractions). Anyway, enough
about that; it's a minor point; it's just that a spelling thing
distracts, takes attention away from the important stuff; what you're
saying and how you say it. That, as I tried to make clear, was first-
rate here.
I was amazed to hear you were inspired to post this in response to a
remark by Dennis. It is indeed amazing what an impression he made on
this group: how he continues to enter discussions almost a year after
his death. I thought you were inspired by Karla an p/s, who've been
waging an argument about poetry vs. lyrics by proxy for a while (in
posts to me). Actually, I'm more sympathetic to Karla's pov: as a lad
who couldn't read or play any music, or even sing in tune, I was
always a lyrics guy, and considered them the important part of the
song, the music being just background. (I've mellowed a bit, and now
see the lyrics as a way to give allow someone like me into the music.)
It's true, as she says, that a songwriter can be lazy with the lyrics,
dash off anything and let the music carry the burden of the art and
communication. IOW, if you can write music, you can get away with not
having to learn to write poetry. (Which I can't.)
Which doesn't apply to this poem/song of yours, BTW: it looks obvious
to me that this was a labour of love, that you crafted the lyrics with
as much care and attention as you did the music.
It also doesn't apply to someone like Cohen: I bring his name up to
show where that criticism of songwriters goes off the deep end, or
jumps the shark, and becomes snobbishness. The fact is, there's only
two types of poets who can make a living in a related field: academics
and songwriters; and much of the criticism of songwriters I see as
motivated by academic-type snobbishness (even from those who clearly
aren't academics at all).
My test for whether a song lyric is a poem is exactly the one you gave
us here: Read the words alone, as text on a page (aloud if you wish),
and see if they work as stand-alone text -- if they do, they pass as
poetry. Yours did. Thanks again for posting it here.
George Dance
What can I say that isn't a cliche? Fuck it, let's go for the cliches,
since they're sincere in any case.
I'm sorry to hear that. At least you've helped immortalize her here.
We all die, and what becomes important after that is what we leave
behind. Most of us exist behind only as memories; the lucky ones get
to leave some art by or about us, as permanent legacy. You've done the
best one could for her in that respect.
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks again George. I appreciate the response and the time you took
with it. It actually gave me a bit more insight on the work than I had
thought about...
Karla
The adivce to change "your" to "youre" is incorrect. I'm assuming that
"youre" is 'you're', the contraction of 'you are'. Replace it in the line
and you have:
it's a shame [you are] heads a mess
and your souls been so abused
>I liked the ambiguity in some of the lines. For example:
spazzmattick
news:f92f36a8-b6f9-49a8...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
was that a skip, or just the same song from
a year ago being played yet again?
you're great...you're talented...you've got
great potential...
now, if you'll just lay off the sauce long enough
to get yer shit together, you might actually go
someplace with it.
there's always a market for the touchy feely stuff.
otherwise, be the altruistic starving artist type
sloshing around a pathetic newsgroup spitting bourbon
possessed words at everybody...see if i care.
spazzmattick
=z=
wrote:
> "=z=" <shull...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanx...I'll hic try hic two remember that hic...
=zaholic= hic
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
Same question for you =z=
Poem or song:
Listen at MySpace.com/blkpooljimmy
Paging Mr. Lennon, calling brother John
So much has happened, since you’ve been gone
They blew up the skyline, all that steel & glass
It shouldn’t surprise you, that they didn’t give peace a chance
And the world turns slowly
The moon has lost its glow
They killed in the name of Holy
But we go on with the show
And there’s a hole in the music
As the years go by
And there’s a hole in the music
And we still wonder why
Guitar solo
Paging Mr. Lennon, a message for you
The flowers still bloom in the park that you knew
So maybe there’s hope, the glass is half full
The songs that you wrote, will help us get through
And the world turns slowly
The moon has lost its glow
They killed in the name of Holy
But we go on with the show
And there’s a hole in the music
As the years go by
And there’s a hole in the music
And we still wonder why
Goodbye Mr. Lennon, I’ll call again soon
And maybe the next time there’ll be a brighter moon
And the world turns slowly
The moon has lost its glow
They killed in the name of Holy
But we go on with the show
But we go on with the show
But we go on with the show
=z=
>- Hide quoted text -
Give me a few on that one BP...I enjoyed a quick scan...I just have to
get in the right frame of mind and haven't heard the music yet...thanx
for asking my opinion...not too many around here would want it...tis a
bit hard to treat it as a poetry read at first with "guitar solo"
hanging out in the middle of it...>laugh<
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
> Give me a few on that one BP...I enjoyed a quick scan...I just have to
> get in the right frame of mind and haven't heard the music yet...thanx
> for asking my opinion...not too many around here would want it...tis a
> bit hard to treat it as a poetry read at first with "guitar solo"
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes that was my working page for the song..should have gotten rid of
"solo".
Thanks for your time.
Paging Mr. Lennon, calling brother John
So much has happened, since you’ve been gone
They blew up the skyline, all that steel & glass
It shouldn’t surprise you, that they didn’t give peace a chance
And the world turns slowly
The moon has lost its glow
They killed in the name of Holy
But we go on with the show
And there’s a hole in the music
As the years go by
And there’s a hole in the music
And we still wonder why
George Dance
Just a couple of quick comments -- I did one heavy crit tonight and
can't handle another. This does sound like a song lyric (as opposed to
'verse', by which I mean rhyming and/or metered poetry). That's
because of the last line; you need the music and its accompanying
vocalization to imagine it fitting the same measure as the previous
lines.
it reminds me of the paradigm example of that for me: Bruce
Springsteen's 'My Father's House.' The normal measure of the lines
fits the meter:
Last night I dreamed that I was a child &
My father's house shines hard and bright
But then there's lines like
A woman I didn't recognize came and spoke to me through a chained door
Which also fits the measure, just because of how it's sung. Just like
your last line; it has to be sung, or it wouldn't fit.
> And the world turns slowly
> The moon has lost its glow
> They killed in the name of Holy
> But we go on with the show
>
'Slowly'/'Holy' is an inspired rhyme. 'But we go on with the show' is
pure cliche; but it's cliche that works, given that you're speaking to
a performer (and given that it's a song; it would still be a sore
thumb in written verse).
> And there’s a hole in the music
> As the years go by
> And there’s a hole in the music
> And we still wonder why
>
'A hole in the music' makes me think of the Sea of Holes in Yellow
Submarine. It makes me think you were just looking for an original way
to say 'a pause in the music', but it's not the right way to say it.
It works well enough as song lyrics, though.
> Guitar solo
>
> Paging Mr. Lennon, a message for you
> The flowers still bloom in the park that you knew
> So maybe there’s hope, the glass is half full
> The songs that you wrote, will help us get through
>
A good verse; maybe trite on its own as verse, but (as I'm thinking of
it as a song lyric) I think it works well indeed.
'Park' makes me think of the Memorial Park, and 'flowers that bloom'
of outpouring of love that fans still leave there. As well 'flowers
still bloom' tells me there is still hope, even before you come out
and say it.
'Full' and 'through' don't rhyme in any way, shape, or form; and they
should, as you've set us up to expect that. yeah, yeah, it's a song
lyric so you can get away with that; but I'd urge you to look for
something better here.
> And the world turns slowly
> The moon has lost its glow
> They killed in the name of Holy
> But we go on with the show
>
> And there’s a hole in the music
> As the years go by
> And there’s a hole in the music
> And we still wonder why
>
> Goodbye Mr. Lennon, I’ll call again soon
> And maybe the next time there’ll be a brighter moon
>
This rhyme would be awful, but you saved it with the earlier reference
to the moon. But again here's the lack of metre, and the necessity of
music to save it from sounding like ragged non-scanning doggerel.
> And the world turns slowly
> The moon has lost its glow
> They killed in the name of Holy
> But we go on with the show
> But we go on with the show
> But we go on with the show
As verse, this ending would be just awful: repeating and then closing
with the most cliched line in the piece. But, once again, it might
work very well as song lyric: that would depends solely on the music
you're repeating to accompany the line. Those last three lines need
music to save them.
George Dance
Yes, it is. I posted to the same effect a few hours previously; but
maybe =z= missed that and still might go astray and change the
spelling, so it might be a good thing that you've repeated the
correction.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you George. Hope you get a chance to hear it at my MySpace
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mornin' to you BP. I don't know what I could add to George's post. It
is hard for me somehow to associate PML to poetry. I just can't seem
to get a frame of mind to read it that way...I kept wanting to sing it
in my head even though I hadn't listened to the song yet. I agree with
George on the analysis (as always, he does a very good job). As music
lyrics I like them especially because I am a lennon fan. I am a bit
puzzled by the way you seem to be talking right to him as opposed to
his soul, but then it would all have to be re-written. I checked out
the song and really enjoyed it...the lennonesque sounding vocals had
me thinking of Julian singing it. The lyrics work well and the meter
is fine throughout. I like the processing of the guitar and the
overall mix is very professional: not too much reverb, chorus, etc.
The vocals are out in front and no instrument overpowers the other.
You and your engineer do nice work. I give it a B. The reason for a B
is that it's a bit too long and it could have used a bridge. I also
liked the MMTour piece. I enjoyed the backwards loop stuff as the
Beatles did so much in MMT. I had issue with the vocals being too
monotone though. I realize you did it that way on purpose but I wasn't
thrilled with it. Did you do it that way because of the key? Another
indicator that I enjoyed the song is that as I was typing I realized I
still had the headphones on...typically if I don't like something they
come right off. Also to George: hey man, my hippocampus still works…I
can remember from one post to another. And thanks to Karla for
correcting you as well. So there! :-p
p.s. please forgive any punctuation errors...it is not a strong
suite...
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
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> - Show quoted text -
Thank you so much for your time....I will take your "B" as a
compliment and try for that "A" in the future.
I've always written but didn't sing till last year. Didn't think I
could...so yes the monotone is me "hiding" what I can do vocally.
Getting more confident with each tune.
Thanks again....maybe collaberation in the future?
Give me one of your throw away music pieces. I'll throw on some
lyrics..