Real Poetry
Fred Hall
HOWL
by Allen Ginsberg
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat
up smoking in the supernatural darkness of
cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
contemplating jazz,
who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and
saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated,
who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes
hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy
among the scholars of war,
who were expelled from the academies for crazy &
publishing obscene odes on the windows of the skull,
who cowered in unshaven rooms in underwear,
burning their money in wastebaskets and listening
to the Terror through the wall,
who got busted in their pubic beards returning through
Laredo with a belt of marijuana for New York,
who ate fire in paint hotels or drank turpentine in
Paradise Alley, death, or purgatoried their
torsos night after night
with dreams, with drugs, with waking nightmares,
alcohol and cock and endless balls,
incomparable blind; streets of shuddering cloud and
lightning in the mind leaping toward poles of Canada & Paterson,
illuminating all the motionless world of Time between,
Peyote solidities of halls, backyard green tree cemetery
dawns, wine drunkenness over the rooftops,
storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon
blinking traffic light, sun and moon and tree
vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Brooklyn,
ashcan rantings and kind king light of mind,
who chained themselves to subways for the endless
ride from Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine
until the noise of wheels and children brought
them down shuddering mouth-wracked and
battered bleak of brain all drained of brilliance
in the drear light of Zoo,
who sank all night in submarine light of Bickford's
floated out and sat through the stale beer after
noon in desolate Fugazzi's, listening to the crack
of doom on the hydrogen jukebox,
who talked continuously seventy hours from park to
pad to bar to Bellevue to museum to the Brooklyn Bridge,
lost battalion of platonic conversationalists jumping
down the stoops off fire escapes off windowsills
off Empire State out of the moon,
yacketayakking screaming vomiting whispering facts
and memories and anecdotes and eyeball kicks
and shocks of hospitals and jails and wars,
whole intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days
and nights with brilliant eyes, meat for the
Synagogue cast on the pavement,
who vanished into nowhere Zen New Jersey leaving a
trail of ambiguous picture postcards of Atlantic City Hall,
suffering Eastern sweats and Tangerian bone-grind-ings and
migraines of China under junk-with-drawal in Newark's bleak furnished
room,
who wandered around and around at midnight in the
railroad yard wondering where to go, and went,
leaving no broken hearts,
who lit cigarettes in boxcars boxcars boxcars racketing
through snow toward lonesome farms in grand-father night,
who studied Plotinus Poe St. John of the Cross telepathy
and bop kabbalah because the cosmos instinctively
vibrated at their feet in Kansas,
who loned it through the streets of Idaho seeking visionary
indian angels who were visionary indian angels,
who thought they were only mad when Baltimore
gleamed in supernatural ecstasy,
who jumped in limousines with the Chinaman of Oklahoma on the impulse of
winter midnight street
light smalltown rain,
who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston
seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the
brilliant Spaniard to converse about America
and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa,
who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mexico leaving
behind nothing but the shadow of dungarees
and the lava and ash of poetry scattered in fireplace Chicago,
who reappeared on the West Coast investigating the
F.B.I. in beards and shorts with big pacifist
eyes sexy in their dark skin passing out incomprehensible leaflets,
who burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting
the narcotic tobacco haze of Capitalism,
who distributed Supercommunist pamphlets in Union
Square weeping and undressing while the sirens
of Los Alamos wailed them down, and wailed
down Wall, and the Staten Island ferry also wailed,
who broke down crying in white gymnasiums naked
and trembling before the machinery of other skeletons,
who bit detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight
in policecars for committing no crime but their
own wild cooking pederasty and intoxication,
who howled on their knees in the subway and were
dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts,
who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly
motorcyclists, and screamed with joy,
who blew and were blown by those human seraphim,
the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love,
who balled in the morning in the evenings in rose
gardens and the grass of public parks and
cemeteries scattering their semen freely to
whomever come who may,
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up
with a sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath
when the blond & naked angel came to pierce
them with a sword,
who lost their loveboys to the three old shrews of fate
the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual dollar
the one eyed shrew that winks out of the womb
and the one eyed shrew that does nothing but
sit on her ass and snip the intellectual golden
threads of the craftsman's loom,
who copulated ecstatic and insatiate with a bottle of
beer a sweetheart a package of cigarettes a candle and fell off the bed,
and continued along
the floor and down the hall and ended fainting
on the wall with a vision of ultimate cunt and
come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness,
who sweetened the snatches of a million girls trembling
in the sunset, and were red eyed in the morning
but prepared to sweeten the snatch of the sun
rise, flashing buttocks under barns and naked in the lake,
who went out whoring through Colorado in myriad
stolen night-cars, N.C., secret hero of these
poems, cocksman and Adonis of Denver-joy
to the memory of his innumerable lays of girls
in empty lots & diner backyards, moviehouses'
rickety rows, on mountaintops in caves or with
gaunt waitresses in familiar roadside lonely petticoat upliftings &
especially secret gas-station
solipsisms of johns, & hometown alleys too,
who faded out in vast sordid movies, were shifted in
dreams, woke on a sudden Manhattan, and
picked themselves up out of basements hung
over with heartless Tokay and horrors of Third
Avenue iron dreams & stumbled to unemployment offices,
who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on
the snowbank docks waiting for a door in the
East River to open to a room full of steamheat and opium,
who created great suicidal dramas on the apartment
cliff-banks of the Hudson under the wartime
blue floodlight of the moon & their heads shall
be crowned with laurel in oblivion,
who ate the lamb stew of the imagination or digested
the crab at the muddy bottom of the rivers of Bowery,
who wept at the romance of the streets with their
pushcarts full of onions and bad music,
who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the
bridge, and rose up to build harpsichords in their lofts,
who coughed on the sixth floor of Harlem crowned
with flame under the tubercular sky surrounded
by orange crates of theology,
who scribbled all night rocking and rolling over lofty
incantations which in the yellow morning were
stanzas of gibberish,
who cooked rotten animals lung heart feet tail borsht
& tortillas dreaming of the pure vegetable kingdom,
who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for an egg,
who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot
for Eternity outside of Time, & alarm clocks
fell on their heads every day for the next decade,
who cut their wrists three times successively unsuccessfully, gave up
and were forced to open antique
stores where they thought they were growing
old and cried,
who were burned alive in their innocent flannel suits
on Madison Avenue amid blasts of leaden verse
& the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments
of fashion & the nitroglycerine shrieks of the
fairies of advertising & the mustard gas of sinister intelligent
editors, or were run down by the
drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality,
who jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge this actually happened and walked
away unknown and forgotten
into the ghostly daze of Chinatown soup alley
ways & firetrucks, not even one free beer,
who sang out of their windows in despair, fell out of
the subway window, jumped in the filthy Passaic, leaped on negroes,
cried all over the street,
danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed
phonograph records of nostalgic European
1930s German jazz finished the whiskey and
threw up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans
in their ears and the blast of colossal steam whistles,
who barreled down the highways of the past journeying
to each other's hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude
watch or Birmingham jazz incarnation,
who drove crosscountry seventytwo hours to find out
if I had a vision or you had a vision or he had
a vision to find out Eternity,
who journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who
came back to Denver & waited in vain, who
watched over Denver & brooded & loned in
Denver and finally went away to find out the
Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes,
who fell on their knees in hopeless cathedrals praying
for each other's salvation and light and breasts,
until the soul illuminated its hair for a second,
who crashed through their minds in jail waiting for
impossible criminals with golden heads and the
charm of reality in their hearts who sang sweet
blues to Alcatraz,
who retired to Mexico to cultivate a habit, or Rocky
Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys
or Southern Pacific to the black locomotive or
Harvard to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the
daisychain or grave,
who demanded sanity trials accusing the radio of hyp
notism & were left with their insanity & their
hands & a hung jury,
who threw potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism
and subsequently presented themselves on the
granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads
and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy,
and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin
Metrazol electricity hydrotherapy psychotherapy occupational
therapy pingpong & amnesia,
who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic
pingpong table, resting briefly in catatonia,
returning years later truly bald except for a wig of
blood, and tears and fingers, to the visible mad
man doom of the wards of the madtowns of the East,
Pilgrim State's Rockland's and Greystone's foetid
halls, bickering with the echoes of the soul,
rocking and rolling in the midnight solitude-bench
dolmen-realms of love, dream of life a nightmare,
bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon,
with mother finally ******, and the last fantastic book
flung out of the tenement window, and the last
door closed at 4. A.M. and the last telephone
slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room
emptied down to the last piece of mental furniture,
a yellow paper rose twisted on a wire hanger in the closet,
and even that imaginary,
nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination
ah, Carl, while you are not safe I am not safe, and
now you're really in the total animal soup of time
and who therefore ran through the icy streets obsessed
with a sudden flash of the alchemy of the use
of the ellipse the catalog the meter & the vibrating plane,
who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space
through images juxtaposed, and trapped the
archangel of the soul between 2 visual images
and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun
and dash of consciousness together jumping
with sensation of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus
to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human
prose and stand before you speechless and intelligent
and shaking with shame,
rejected yet confessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm
of thought in his naked and endless head,
the madman bum and angel beat in Time, unknown,
yet putting down here what might be left to say
in time come after death,
and rose reincarnate in the ghostly clothes of jazz in
the goldhorn shadow of the band and blew the
suffering of America's naked mind for love into
an eli eli lamma lamma sabacthani saxophone
cry that shivered the cities down to the last radio
with the absolute heart of the poem of life butchered
out of their own bodies good to eat a thousand years.
What sphinx of cement and aluminum bashed open
their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination?
Moloch! Solitude! Filth! Ugliness! Ashcans and unob
tainable dollars! Children screaming under the
stairways! Boys sobbing in armies! Old men
weeping in the parks!
Moloch! Moloch! Nightmare of Moloch! Moloch the
loveless! Mental Moloch! Moloch the heavy
judger of men!
Moloch the incomprehensible prison! Moloch the
crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of
sorrows! Moloch whose buildings are judgment!
Moloch the vast stone of war! Moloch the stunned governments!
Moloch whose mind is pure machinery! Moloch whose
blood is running money! Moloch whose fingers
are ten armies! Moloch whose breast is a cannibal dynamo!
Moloch whose ear is a smoking tomb!
Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows!
Moloch whose skyscrapers stand in the long
streets like endless Jehovahs! Moloch whose factories
dream and croak in the fog! Moloch whose
smokestacks and antennae crown the cities!
Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone! Moloch
whose soul is electricity and banks! Moloch
whose poverty is the specter of genius! Moloch
whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen!
Moloch whose name is the Mind!
Moloch in whom I sit lonely! Moloch in whom I dream
Angels! Crazy in Moloch! Cocksucker in
Moloch! Lacklove and manless in Moloch!
Moloch who entered my soul early! Moloch in whom
I am a consciousness without a body! Moloch
who frightened me out of my natural ecstasy!
Moloch whom I abandon! Wake up in Moloch!
Light streaming out of the sky!
Moloch! Moloch! Robot apartments! invisible suburbs!
skeleton treasuries! blind capitals! demonic
industries! spectral nations! invincible mad
houses! granite cocks! monstrous bombs!
They broke their backs lifting Moloch to Heaven! Pave-
ments, trees, radios, tons! lifting the city to
Heaven which exists and is everywhere about us!
Visions! omens! hallucinations! miracles! ecstasies!
gone down the American river!
Dreams! adorations! illuminations! religions! the whole
boatload of sensitive bullshit!
Breakthroughs! over the river! flips and crucifixions!
gone down the flood! Highs! Epiphanies! Despairs!
Ten years' animal screams and suicides!
Minds! New loves! Mad generation! down on
the rocks of Time!
Real holy laughter in the river! They saw it all! the
wild eyes! the holy yells! They bade farewell!
They jumped off the roof! to solitude! waving!
carrying flowers! Down to the river! into the street!
Carl Solomon! I'm with you in Rockland
where you're madder than I am
I'm with you in Rockland
where you must feel very strange
I'm with you in Rockland
where you imitate the shade of my mother
I'm with you in Rockland
where you've murdered your twelve secretaries
I'm with you in Rockland
where you laugh at this invisible humor
I'm with you in Rockland
where we are great writers on the same dreadful typewriter
I'm with you in Rockland
where your condition has become serious and
is reported on the radio
I'm with you in Rockland
where the faculties of the skull no longer admit
the worms of the senses
I'm with you in Rockland
where you drink the tea of the breasts of the
spinsters of Utica
I'm with you in Rockland
where you pun on the bodies of your nurses the
harpies of the Bronx
I'm with you in Rockland
where you scream in a straightjacket that you're
losing the game of the actual pingpong of the abyss
I'm with you in Rockland
where you bang on the catatonic piano the soul
is innocent and immortal it should never die
ungodly in an armed madhouse
I'm with you in Rockland
where fifty more shocks will never return your
soul to its body again from its pilgrimage to a
cross in the void
I'm with you in Rockland
where you accuse your doctors of insanity and
plot the Hebrew socialist revolution against the
fascist national Golgotha
I'm with you in Rockland
where you will split the heavens of Long Island
and resurrect your living human Jesus from the
superhuman tomb
I'm with you in Rockland
where there are twenty-five-thousand mad com-
rades all together singing the final stanzas of
the Internationale
I'm with you in Rockland
where we hug and kiss the United States under
our bedsheets the United States that coughs all
night and won't let us sleep
I'm with you in Rockland
where we wake up electrified out of the coma
by our own souls' airplanes roaring over the
roof they've come to drop angelic bombs the
hospital illuminates itself imaginary walls collapse
O skinny legions run outside O starry
spangled shock of mercy the eternal war is
here O victory forget your underwear we're free
I'm with you in Rockland
in my dreams you walk dripping from a sea-
journey on the highway across America in tears
to the door of my cottage in the Western night
--
"These clowns are all Jokers!" - Rasta Khan
Fred Hall
4656-a69a-4...@d18g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
> you know your ascent was needed
> here? I clearly state for you
> so you'll know just what you must do.
>
> Go to my room; consuming meaning.
> There, you'll stand and stare while leaning
> on the bat Cal Ripken gave. He
> knows my dad like I do. Save me
> from this dumb, retarded sounding
> poem thingy, so astounding
> in the way you see names drop
> like where I mentioned a short ... stop.
>
Yer out!!!!
Will Dockery
> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> entirely, though, just in case you decide to remove your post from
> google later.
Well, Fred had good intentions, I believe, since Howl is top flight
poetry, one of my lifelong favorites.
He just probably doesn't know the "new rules" here about reposting
copyrighted poetry here... I'm sure the wanna-be moderator PJR will be
here shortly to scold him... you think?
> HOWL
>
> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> > I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> > madness, starving hysterical naked,
> > dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
> > looking for an angry fix
<great poem snipped for brevity>
--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
>
> HOWL
>
> by Allen Ginsberg
>
> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> madness, starving hysterical naked,
> dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
> looking for an angry fix
George Dance
> On Oct 9, 8:44 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Top this boys and girls
>
> > I'll leave the thefts to you, thanks. I will have to copy yours
> > entirely, though, just in case you decide to remove your post from
> > google later.
>
> Well, Fred had good intentions, I believe, since Howl is top flight
> poetry, one of my lifelong favorites.
It's a bit too long for my taste; but you're certainly not alone in
your opinion. My (admittedly incomplete) list of all-time bestselling
poetry books has /Howl and Other Poems/ at #5, with "nearly 1 million"
sold.
http://pennyspoetry.wikia.com/wiki/Bestsellers_in_poetry
> He just probably doesn't know the "new rules" here about reposting
> copyrighted poetry here...
Of course he gets the benefit of the doubt. If he doesn't do it again
(or go around calling anyone else a thief), then I shan't say mention
it again.
>I'm sure the wanna-be moderator PJR will be
> here shortly to scold him... you think?
>
I look forward to hearing ~PJ~'s comments. It will also be interesting
to hear whether he NetKopped this to google or Fred's ISP, the way
he's done in the past with even bogus complaints.
Will Dockery
> On Oct 9, 10:56 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 8:44 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Top this boys and girls
>
> > > I'll leave the thefts to you, thanks. I will have to copy yours
> > > entirely, though, just in case you decide to remove your post from
> > > google later.
>
> > Well, Fred had good intentions, I believe, since Howl is top flight
> > poetry, one of my lifelong favorites.
>
> It's a bit too long for my taste; but you're certainly not alone in
> your opinion. My (admittedly incomplete) list of all-time bestselling
> poetry books has /Howl and Other Poems/ at #5, with "nearly 1 million"
> sold.
>
> http://pennyspoetry.wikia.com/wiki/Bestsellers_in_poetry
>
> > He just probably doesn't know the "new rules" here about reposting
> > copyrighted poetry here...
>
> Of course he gets the benefit of the doubt. If he doesn't do it again
> (or go around calling anyone else a thief),
That's an important point, there...
> then I shan't say mention
> it again.
>
> >I'm sure the wanna-be moderator PJR will be
> > here shortly to scold him... you think?
>
> I look forward to hearing ~PJ~'s comments. It will also be interesting
> to hear whether he NetKopped this to google or Fred's ISP, the way
> he's done in the past with even bogus complaints.
I see it quite possible that PJR simply "won't see" this thread... if
you know what I mean.
the messenjah
Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
the top of the post.
Will Dockery
wrote:
reposting the poem here without permission.
George Dance
What Fred stole was the permission to reprint, which the copyright
owner (Ginsberg) sold to HarperCollins Publishers.
There are cases in which a copyright holder grants a blanket
permission to reprint, but Howl isn't one of them.
Will Dockery
And, with Howl being one of the top 5 best selling poems of all time,
there are $$$ at stake, and you know how that can get.
Will Dockery
> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > HOWL
>
> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> > I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> > madness, starving hysterical naked,
> > dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
> > looking for an angry fix,
<snipped for brevity>
> > I'm with you in Rockland
The bit R.E.M. referenced early in their career, although intending
Patti Smith... interesting sidebar we could discuss later.
> > in my dreams you walk dripping from a sea-
> > journey on the highway across America in tears
> > to the door of my cottage in the Western night
>
> Welcome one and all. Please read. Did
> you know your ascent was needed
> here? I clearly state for you
> so you'll know just what you must do.
>
> Go to my room; consuming meaning.
> There, you'll stand and stare while leaning
> on the bat Cal Ripken gave. He
> knows my dad like I do. Save me
> from this dumb, retarded sounding
> poem thingy, so astounding
> in the way you see names drop
> like where I mentioned a short ... stop.
The old qustion at times like this was:
"Will it play in Peoria?"
George Dance
True. This isn't like the "copyright" claims that normally get bandied
about on aapc. "Howl" has a recognized commercial value.
Will Dockery
> On 9-Oct-2011, Will Dockery wrote:
>Chuck wrote:
>>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > reposting the poem here without permission.
>
> chuckles.
Or for anyone else who might wonder what George meant.
Peter J Ross
Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Top this boys and girls
>
> HOWL
>
> by Allen Ginsberg
Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
improve it.
As it stands, I think it's unreadable tripe.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
Maybe the Fair Use loophole that Fred reposted this for
"instructional, educational and/or example purposes" would apply?
> I managed to archive only
> half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:> HOWL
>
> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> > I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> > madness, starving hysterical naked,
> > dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
> > looking for an angry fix,
<snip Ginsberg's masterpiece>
Peter J Ross
>>
>
When you post it one and a half times, what do you say it is?
Oh, it's "archiving".
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> I look forward to hearing ~PJ~'s comments.
You're a dishonest, thieving moron.
So is Dreckery.
Were those the comments you were looking forward to?
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
the messenjah <theguyo...@veryfast.biz> wrote:
> Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
> think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
> the top of the post.
Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
AAPC and elsewhere?
"I openly admitted that I ripped off the poems, and posted them on a
website, and posted them in usenet."
- chuckles the plagiarising clown,
in Message-ID <baeb9763.01080...@posting.google.com>
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Top this boys and girls
>
> > half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:
>
What do you say it is, PJR?
It could be said that Fred Hall reposted it as "Fair Use"... the Fair
Use loophole that he reposted this for"instructional, educational and/
or example purposes" would apply, possibly.
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> True. This isn't like the "copyright" claims that normally get bandied
> about on aapc. "Howl" has a recognized commercial value.
How much do you think you'll be fined for posting one and a half
copies of it, Dunce?
You didn't post the 1½ copies for any fair-use purpose, as Fred did;
you stated explicitly that you posted them so that they would be
permanently archived.
Would you like me to send a friendly email to the copyright owners?
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> You didn't post the 1½ copies for any fair-use purpose, as Fred did;
Okay PJR, so we agree that reposting content on Usenet can be
considered for "fair-use purposes", then.
As I wrote earlier today:
"It could be said that Fred Hall reposted it as "Fair Use"... the Fair
Use loophole that he reposted this for"instructional, educational and/
or example purposes" would apply, possibly..."
Will Dockery
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> I look forward to hearing ~PJ~'s comments.
>
> You're a dishonest, thieving moron.
In case you're confused, PJR, it was Fred Hall who reposted Allen
Ginsberg's Howl poem.
Will Dockery
>
> > Top this boys and girls
>
> > HOWL
>
> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
> improve it.
>
> As it stands, I think
<snip>
This could explain why so much of your poetry is worthless, PJR, if
you never managed to understand the powerful poetry of Allen Ginsberg
& the Beats.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>> > half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:
>>
>> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> What do you say it is, PJR?
What will you pay me if I tell you?
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 5:14 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> I look forward to hearing ~PJ~'s comments.
>>
>> You're a dishonest, thieving moron.
>
> In case you're confused, PJR,
No, I'm not you.
--
PJR :-)
the messenjah
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:24:21 -0700 (PDT),
>
> > Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Top this boys and girls
>
> >> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
> >> > half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:
>
> >> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> > What do you say it is, PJR?
>
> What will you pay me if I tell you?
Ross. You're a fuckhead.
>
> --
> PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 05:52:42 +0000 (UTC),
>> Fred Hall wrote:
>>
>> > Top this boys and girls
>>
>> > HOWL
>>
>> > by Allen Ginsberg
>>
>> Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
>> improve it.
>>
>> As it stands, I think
>
> <snip>
>
> This could explain why so much of your poetry is worthless, PJR, if
> you never managed to understand the powerful poetry of Allen Ginsberg
> & the Beats.
The "powerful poetry" of "the cat sat on the mat" is a little above
your reading comprehension level, so please shut up when the literate
grown-ups are having a discussion.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> > In case you're confused, PJR, it was Fred Hall who posted the Allen Ginsberg poem here.
>
> No
Okay, you seemed to be confused when you posted earlier, PJR.
Peter J Ross
chuckles. Dreckery will have to offer me quatloos, and lots of them.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> > confused
> confused
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>> Fred Hall wrote:
>
> >> > Top this boys and girls
>
>
> >> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> >> Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
> >> improve it.
>
> >> As it stands, I think
>
> > <snip>
>
> > This could explain why so much of your poetry is worthless, PJR, if
> > you never managed to understand the powerful poetry of Allen Ginsberg
> > & the Beats.
>
> The "powerful poetry" of "the cat sat on the mat"
<snip>
Yeah, I've read your Nasobeastie crap "translation", PJR... heh.
Peter J Ross
> Yeah, I've read your Nasobeastie crap "translation", PJR... heh.
Message-ID: <c5096b7b-d037-4d19...@u6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Try to make your worthless "critiques" mutually consistent.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> > confused
>
> --
> PJR :-)
If you'd learn to read the posts before snipping them, perhaps you'd
be less confused, PJR.
Basically, Fred Hill posted an Allen Ginsberg poem on a.a.p.c. which
may or may not be either fair use or copyright infringement:
On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Top this boys and girls
>
> HOWL
>
> by Allen Ginsberg
>
> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> madness, starving hysterical naked,
> dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
> looking for an angry fix
<snip>
I called it fair use, not to mention a damned fine poem.
HTH & HAND, PJR.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > confused
Will Dockery
>
>> Yeah, I've read your Nasobeastie crap "translation", PJR... heh.
>
> You said it was "a pretty good one".
Beats, no.
And, of course credit for anything really "good" in your poem came from
Christian Morgenstern's original, anyhow.
"We know."
--
"Wobble", "She Came From Overseas" & "Crawford Road Crawl" by Will Dockery &
Friends:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XyRCh0kj5w
George Dance
> Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> > You didn't post the 1½ copies for any fair-use purpose, as Fred did;
>
> Okay PJR, so we agree that reposting content on Usenet can be
> considered for "fair-use purposes", then.
Yes, you and he (and even I) have a possible agreement, since we all
agree that it's possible to post as fair use.
>
> As I wrote earlier today:
>
> "It could be said that Fred Hall reposted it as "Fair Use"... the Fair
> Use loophole that he reposted this for"instructional, educational and/
> or example purposes" would apply, possibly..."
>
Yes, and I notice he's claimed "educational purposes" for that song by
"the poet Barbara's Cat." The problem with claiming it for Howl is
that he'd have to claim a purpose for reposting the whole of Part I,
and there isn't one apparent: What point could he have possibly have
hoped to have made, by posting all that, that he couldn't have been
made using a 50-100 line excerpt?
George Dance
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 06:12:54 -0700 (PDT),
>
> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Top this boys and girls
>
> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>
> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
And you claim it isn't.
> When you post it one and a half times, what do you say it is?
In this case, it's called quoting your friend's message.
George Dance
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Top this boys and girls
>
> > > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
> > > half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:
>
> > When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> What do you say it is, PJR?
>
Amazingly, ~PJ~ is claiming that Fred's posting of the poem onto aapc
is NOT copyright infringement -- BUT that replying to Fred's message,
without cutting that part of it, IS copyright infringement.
George Dance
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 08:53:45 -0700 (PDT),
>
> > Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
> > think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
> > the top of the post.
>
> Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
> posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
>
> How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
> AAPC and elsewhere?
>
Don't forget "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Dylan Thomas.
That was posted onto RAP by an account using the name "Chuck Lysaght,
too, right? The fact is, he was being forged by stAUKers at the time,
and there's no way to tell which posts are from him and which are
stAUKer forgeries.
Like this one, for instance: all the message ID proves is that someone
posted it:
> "I openly admitted that I ripped off the poems, and posted them on a
> website, and posted them in usenet."
> - chuckles the plagiarising clown,
> in Message-ID <baeb9763.0108051801.2eae6...@posting.google.com>
Even if this admission is from Lysaght, it might just be evidence that
you offered him the same type of deal you offered me during that
Leonard Cohen nonsensse, and unlike me he was stupid enough to believe
you.
Fred Hall
news:slrnj93vs...@peterjross.me.uk:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 05:52:42 +0000 (UTC),
> Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> HOWL
>>
>> by Allen Ginsberg
>
> Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
> improve it.
>
> As it stands, I think it's unreadable tripe.
>
>
I get the feeling you don't care for this poem;)
--
"These clowns are all Jokers!" - Rasta Khan
Will Dockery
> On Oct 9, 5:19 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz> wrote:
>
> > Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
> > > think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
> > > the top of the post.
>
> > Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
> > posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
>
> > How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
> > AAPC and elsewhere?
*The* Andy Kaufman, famous comic and inspiration to everyone from
R.E.M. to Jim Carrey, who did write poetry before his death?
Or Andrew Kaufman:
http://andrewkaufman.wordpress.com/sample-poems/
"Andrew Kaufman grew up near NYC, graduated from Oberlin College,
earned his MFA in poetry writing from Brooklyn College, and his MA and
Ph. D. in English Literature from the University of Toronto. His poems
have appeared in numerous journals, such as The Atlanta Review, Beloit
PoetryJournal, College English, A Gathering of the Tribes,
Massachusetts Review, Nimrod, Rattapallax, and Skidrow Penthouse. His
Cinnamon Bay Sonnets won the Center for Book Arts chapbook competition
in 1996. Earth’s Ends, his most recent book of poems, appeared in 2005
after winning the Pearl Poetry Award..."
> Don't forget "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Dylan Thomas.
> That was posted onto RAP by an account using the name "Chuck Lysaght,
> too, right? The fact is, he was being forged by stAUKers at the time,
> and there's no way to tell which posts are from him and which are
> stAUKer forgeries.
>
> Like this one, for instance: all the message ID proves is that someone
> posted it:
>
> > "I openly admitted that I ripped off the poems, and posted them on a
> > website, and posted them in usenet."
> > - chuckles the plagiarising clown,
> > in Message-ID <baeb9763.0108051801.2eae6...@posting.google.com>
>
> Even if this admission is from Lysaght, it might just be evidence that
> you offered him the same type of deal you offered me during that
> Leonard Cohen nonsensse, and unlike me he was stupid enough to believe you.
PJR offered you a "deal"?
What's the story on that?
Will Dockery
>
> > True. This isn't like the "copyright" claims that normally get bandied
> > about on aapc. "Howl" has a recognized commercial value.
>
> How much do you think you'll be fined for posting one and a half
already existing (& fair-use) post made by Fred Hall of Ginsberg's
poem, which you've already gone on record as declaring it "Fair Use":
> for any fair-use purpose, as Fred did
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I've read your Nasobeastie crap "translation", PJR... heh.
>>
>> You said it was "a pretty good one".
>
> I wrote that
<snip>
You wrote what I quoted in the article for which I provided a
Message-ID.
Then Dunce instructed you to change your "mind".
Your comments are, of course, always ignored by everybody who solicits
useful comments and critique in AAPC, unless they fancy having a laugh
at your expense.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 5:12 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 06:12:54 -0700 (PDT),
>>
>> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>>
>> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> And you claim it isn't.
I haven't expressed an opinion on the subject. Your boyfriend Dreckery
wants me to express an opinion, but he hasn't offered money, so why
should I bother?
Nobody who isn't a paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of
Plagiarists and Allied Thieving Trades has objected to Fred's post, so
he doesn't need to be defended.
>> When you post it one and a half times, what do you say it is?
>
> In this case, it's called quoting your friend's message.
Tell that to the judge.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Top this boys and girls
>
>
> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> > I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> > madness, starving hysterical naked,
> > dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
<snip for brevity>
> > in my dreams you walk dripping from a sea-
> > journey on the highway across America in tears
> > to the door of my cottage in the Western night
> > --
>
> > "These clowns are all Jokers!" - Rasta Khan
>
> you know your ascent was needed
> here? I clearly state for you
> so you'll know just what you must do.
>
> Go to my room; consuming meaning.
> There, you'll stand and stare while leaning
> on the bat Cal Ripken gave. He
> knows my dad like I do. Save me
> from this dumb, retarded sounding
> poem thingy, so astounding
> in the way you see names drop
> like where I mentioned a short ... stop.
Yes, I would expect you to like this Kerouac-inspired Ginsberg work,
but, you might want to check out his earlier work where he worked with
forms such as the sonnet & haiku... I'll see about "fair-use sampling"
a piece or two of that for here, since that practice is now acceptable
here.
--
Music & Poetry from Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Peter J Ross
> On Oct 9, 5:19 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 08:53:45 -0700 (PDT),
>>
>> the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz> wrote:
>> > Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
>> > think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
>> > the top of the post.
>>
>> Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
>> posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
>>
>> How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
>> AAPC and elsewhere?
>>
>
> Don't forget "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Dylan Thomas.
> That was posted onto RAP by an account using the name "Chuck Lysaght,
> too, right?
> The fact is, he was being forged by stAUKers at the time,
> and there's no way to tell which posts are from him and which are
> stAUKer forgeries.
> Like this one, for instance: all the message ID proves is that someone
> posted it:
>
>> "I openly admitted that I ripped off the poems, and posted them on a
>> website, and posted them in usenet."
>> - chuckles the plagiarising clown,
>> in Message-ID <baeb9763.0108051801.2eae6...@posting.google.com>
Message-ID <baeb9763.01080...@posting.google.com>
I know that the obfuscation is automatic in Google Gropes, but you
choose to be a Google Groper, and such obfuscations must be the only
advantage its crappy service offers you.
> Even if this admission is from Lysaght,
account. Either chuckles's account was hacked, or he posted it.
> it might just be evidence that
> you offered him the same type of deal you offered me during that
> Leonard Cohen nonsensse, and unlike me he was stupid enough to believe
> you.
I'll buy you a headstone?
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> >Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >> the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz> wrote:
>
>> > Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
> >> > think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
> >> > the top of the post.
>
> >> Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
> >> posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
>
> >> How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
> >> AAPC and elsewhere?
>
> > Don't forget "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Dylan Thomas.
> > That was posted onto RAP by an account using the name "Chuck Lysaght,
> > too, right?
>
> Message-ID?
>
> > The fact is, he was being forged by stAUKers at the time,
>
> Nope. Learn the difference between froggery and forgery.
Do you approve of these practices, PJR?
Peter J Ross
Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnj93vs...@peterjross.me.uk:
>
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 05:52:42 +0000 (UTC),
>> Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Top this boys and girls
>>>
>>> HOWL
>>>
>>> by Allen Ginsberg
>>
>> Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
>> improve it.
>>
>> As it stands, I think it's unreadable tripe.
>
> I get the feeling you don't care for this poem;)
I write much nastier things about the *really* bad stuff!
There are much worse poems than "Howl" posted in AAPC and RAP every
week, but "Howl", like its prose counterpart for unreadable, soporific
awfulness, Kerouac's /On the Road/, is still admired by a dwindling
set of people who, unfortunately, still have some influence on public
taste, especially when they set books that students are forced to
read, and so it's still important to point out what tripe it is.
/Howl and Other Poems/ was published in 1956.
So was John Berryman's /Homage to Mistress Bradstreet/.
I know which "Great American Poem" I prefer.
The Governor your husband lived so long
moved you not, restless, waiting for him? Still,
you were a patient woman. [etc etc]
It's the difference between hysterical raving and intelligent
analysis.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 5:27 pm, Peter J Ross wrote:
>> George Dance wrote:
>>
>> > True. This isn't like the "copyright" claims that normally get bandied
>> > about on aapc. "Howl" has a recognized commercial value.
>>
>> How much do you think you'll be fined for posting one and a half
>
> George didn't actually "post" anything, PJR.
Oh? So who posted
Message-ID: <09f3276d-3381-40b9...@5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
and
Message-ID: <0fd9b736-f463-4cb9...@z8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
?
The fairies at the bottom of the garden?
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I've read your Nasobeastie crap "translation", PJR... heh.
>
> You said it was "a pretty good one".
No surprise you'd take what I wrote out of context, since everything
you write here is tainted with self-serving dishonesty and crooked
hypocrisy, PJR.
Here it is:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/a1238b43f7c103cf?hl=enKe1e1b419254862
> > the nasobeest
<snip>
> A pretty good one, PJR... reminds me of Corey's poetry.
This was my original critique, which didn't change... PJR's
translation of Christian Morgenstern's Nasobeastie poem reminded me of
the superior work by J. Corey Connor aka Hieronymous707, and my
opinion hasn't changed, as a re-reading of this thread shows.
> > Das Nasobēm
> > -----------
>
> > Auf seinen Nasen schreitet
> > einher das Nasobēm,
> > von seinem Kind begleitet.
> > Es steht noch nicht im Brehm.
>
> > Es steht noch nicht im Meyer.
> > Und auch im Brockhaus nicht.
> > Es trat aus meiner Leyer
> > zum ersten Mal ans Licht.
>
> > Auf seinen Nasen schreitet
> > (wie schon gesagt) seitdem,
> > von seinem Kind begleitet,
> > einher das Nasobēm.
>
> > -Christian Morgenstern (1871-1914)
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > > On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> > > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>> > > half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:
>>
>> > When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>>
>> What do you say it is, PJR?
>>
>
> Amazingly, ~PJ~ is claiming that Fred's posting of the poem onto aapc
> is NOT copyright infringement --
Message-ID?
In the post to which you're probably referring, I didn't express any
opinion. I merely elucidated what Fred wrote at the top of his post
for the benefit of the stupid people who may not have understood it.
> BUT that replying to Fred's message,
> without cutting that part of it, IS copyright infringement.
Bzzzzt. Wrong.
You stated that you were quoting the text to ensure that it would be
archived.
You seem to be under the impression that once a text has been quoted
under fair-use rules, it's somehow transferred into the public domain,
and you can quote it (and "archive", i.e. re-publish it) as often as
you like.
You may learn that you're mistaken if Allen Ginsberg's publishers
notice what you did.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > >> Top this boys and girls
>
> >> > > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
> >> > > half of it in my last post. ere's the whole thing:
>
> >> > When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> >> What do you say it is, PJR?
>
> > Amazingly, ~PJ~ is claiming that Fred's posting of the poem onto aapc
> > is NOT copyright infringement --
>
> Message-ID?
>
> In the post to which you're probably referring, I didn't express any opinion.
Looks like you're giving your opinion here, PJR, that Fred Hall's
posting of the entire Allen Ginsberg poem is "fair use":
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/40d7bd4de63075ff?hl=en
On Oct 9, 5:27 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT),
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> True. This isn't like the "copyright" claims that normally get bandied
> > about on aapc. "Howl" has a recognized commercial value.
<snip for focus>
> You didn't post the 1½ copies for any fair-use purpose, as Fred did;
Aren't you excusing Fred's posting of Ginsberg's entire poem as "fair-
use", PJR?
Isn't that your opinion?
For the record, here's what I wrote about it:
"It could be said that Fred Hall reposted it as 'Fair Use'... the Fair
Use loophole that he reposted this for 'instructional, educational
and/
or example purposes' would apply, possibly..."
Will Dockery
> > On Oct 9, 5:27 pm, Peter J Ross wrote:
> >> George Dance wrote:
>
> >> > True. This isn't like the "copyright" claims that normally get bandied
> >> > about on aapc. "Howl" has a recognized commercial value.
>
>
> > George didn't actually "post" anything, PJR.
>
> Oh? So who posted
Fred Hall made the post of Ginsberg's poem, George Dance /replied/ to
the post, like so:
On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Top this boys and girls
>
> HOWL
>
> by Allen Ginsberg
>
> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> madness, starving hysterical naked,
> dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
<snip for brevity>
HTH & HAND.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
<...>
> out of context
<...>
Heh.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks like you're giving your opinion here, PJR, that Fred Hall's
> posting of the entire Allen Ginsberg poem is "fair use":
I elucidated Fred's purpose, as expressed less explicitly at the top
of his post.
If you want *my* opinion, rather than an elucidation of his, you'll
have to pay. If you're really lucky, somebody who isn't a lying,
thieving moron might ask for my opinion, in which case I'll give my
opinion freely, but otherwise I think one hundred US dollars is a
reasonable fee to charge you for my opinion.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Nope. Learn the difference between froggery and forgery.
>
> Do you approve of these practices, PJR?
Froggery is harmless fun.
Forgery is punishable net-abuse, and possibly a criminal offence too.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
References:
<Xns9F798E6CB...@208.90.168.18>
Learn how to post, Dreckster.
When you quote text on Usenet, you're expected to provide a reference
to the source's message-id in the References line.
Failing to do so may amount to copyright abuse (by failing to provide
adequate attribution), but I'm not sure, since you're the first Usenet
poster who's ever done it persistently. Nobody before you has ever
committed net-abuse in precisely your characteristic way.
Congratulations on the first original act of your pathetically
derivative life!
However, fucking with the References line (which is what you're doing)
is also a characteristic of some HipCrime posts, and HipCrime posts
are cancellable on sight, so watch out.
Since this a grey area, feel free to start a discussion in
news.admin.net-abuse.policy. Kathy Morgan hasn't has a lot of work to
do since she took over as moderator, and you'd be an education for
her.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> > Looks like you're giving your opinion here, PJR, that Fred Hall's
> > posting of the entire Allen Ginsberg poem is "fair use":
>
> I elucidated Fred's purpose, as expressed less explicitly at the top
> of his post.
Which was:
On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Top this boys and girls
That's what Fred wrote, his purpose being to post an example of what
he considers to be "Real Poetry", which I agree, of course, that Allen
Ginsberg is indeed one of the greatest poets America has produced.
Then Fred posted Ginsberg's "Howl" in entirety here:
> HOWL
>
> by Allen Ginsberg
>
> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
> madness, starving hysterical naked,
> dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
> looking for an angry fix
<Ginsberg's poem snipped for brevity>
Okay, so what is implied here is that, in your opinion, Fred Hall's
posting of Ginsberg's entire poem here on Usenet is "Fair Use", PJR.
Obviously you're not one to mince words when it comes to allegegations
of copyright infringement and so forth... as we know.
--
Will Dockery & Friends Live at Hogbottom 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XyRCh0kj5w
Will Dockery
>
> Froggery is harmless fun.
>
> Forgery is punishable net-abuse, and possibly a criminal offence too.
And, in your opinion, how do you decide the difference between
"Froggery" and "Forgery", PJR?
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Top this boys and girls
Can you, Dreckster?
At the back of my mind there's a plan to write something that will
impress Fred and make him think that the sonnet form isn't dead yet.
At the back of your mind there are cobwebbed spools of Sesame Street
film labelled "far too intellectual".
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Top this boys and girls
>
> Can you
Top Allen Ginsberg?
Probably not... and we know you're not in his league, either, PJR.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
By applying the simple rules that were established 20 or 30 years ago.
If the email address is identical, it's a forgery.
If it isn't, it isn't.
You have an account with eternal-september.org (oh, the irony!), so
ask Ray or Wolfgang.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> Can you
>
> Top Allen Ginsberg?
>
> Probably not... and we know you're not in his league, either, PJR.
Who are "we"?
If I seriously thought that I couldn't write a better poem than
"Howl", and hadn't already written at least twenty better poems than
"Howl", I'd give up.
Sixteen poems, of which at least half are obviously better than
"Howl", are here: <http://peterjross.me.uk/verse/16-poems.php>
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> > Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >>On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Top this boys and girls
>
> >> Can you
>
> > Top Allen Ginsberg?
>
> > Probably not... and we know you're not in his league, either, PJR.
>
> Who are "we"?
The Royal We.
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> >>On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> >> Can you
>>
>> > Top Allen Ginsberg?
>>
>> > Probably not... and we know you're not in his league, either, PJR.
>>
>> Who are "we"?
>
> The Royal We.
Fuck! Dreckery is turning into Yads from RADw.
Yads and Dreckery both want to be married to Phil the Greek.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >>On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Top this boys and girls
>
> >> Can you
>
> > Top Allen Ginsberg?
>
> > Probably not... and we know you're not in his league, either, PJR.
>
> Who are "we"?
The Royal We.
--
Will Dockery
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Top this boys and girls
<Allen Ginsberg's Howl, posted by Fred Hall, snipped>
>>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>>> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>>>
>>> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>>
>> And you claim it isn't.
>
> I haven't expressed an opinion on the subject.
Interesting... wonder why?
--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >> Top this boys and girls
>
> <Allen Ginsberg's Howl, posted by Fred Hall, snipped>
>
>>>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>>>> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>>>>
>>>> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>>>
>>> And you claim it isn't.
>>
>> I haven't expressed an opinion on the subject.
>
> Interesting... wonder why?
Because you haven't paid me. Get up to date, Dreckboy.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> > Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> >> Top this boys and girls
>
> > <Allen Ginsberg's Howl, posted by Fred Hall, snipped>
>
> >>>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
> >>>> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>
> >>>> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> >>> And you claim it isn't.
>
> >> I haven't expressed an opinion on the subject.
>
> > Interesting... wonder why?
>
> Because you haven't paid me.
Ginsberg's poem to be "Fair Use" anyhow, you know.
Will Dockery
>
> turning into Yads from RADw.
I'm not familiar with this Yads person.
Fred Hall
news:slrnj99bc...@peterjross.me.uk:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:26:47 -0700 (PDT),
> Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Top this boys and girls
>
> Can you, Dreckster?
>
> At the back of my mind there's a plan to write something that will
> impress Fred and make him think that the sonnet form isn't dead yet.
>
> At the back of your mind there are cobwebbed spools of Sesame Street
> film labelled "far too intellectual".
>
>
--
Will Dockery
> Peter J Ross wrote innews:slrnj99bc...@peterjross.me.uk:
>
> > At the back of my mind there's a plan to write something that will
> > impress Fred and make him think that the sonnet form isn't dead yet.
>
> I would read your sonnet with an open mind
Indeed, PJR, bring it on... if the poem is any good I'll be the first
to say so!
George Dance
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 05:52:42 +0000 (UTC),> > HOWL
>
> > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
> improve it.
>
> As it stands, I think it's unreadable
I have to comment on that, PJ, as it shows what a silly troll you are.
It doesn`t matter a damn how ``readable`` Howl is, because it`s not
designed to be read. It`s a performance piece, designed to be recited
and listened to.
You`ve probably forgotten how, just a year or so ago, you and ``the
poet Barbara`s Cat`` were insisting that all poetry was supposed to be
spoken (and listened to), rather than read off a page. And now, when a
poem comes along that fits your alleged rule, you`re completely
oblivious.
(Hint: If in the future you stick to saying only what you believe -
ie, start being honest - you won`t be embarrassed by faux pas like
that.)
> tripe.
You can`t understand something, so you decide it must be no good.
Typical.
In reality, Ginsberg was a better poet than you could dream of being.
George Dance
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:21:49 -0700 (PDT),
>
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 5:12 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 06:12:54 -0700 (PDT),
>
> >> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>
> >> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> > And you claim it isn't.
>
> wants me to express an opinion, but he hasn't offered money, so why
> should I bother?
>
> Nobody who isn't a paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of
> Plagiarists and Allied Thieving Trades has objected to Fred's post, so
> he doesn't need to be defended.
>
> >> When you post it one and a half times, what do you say it is?
>
> > In this case, it's called quoting your friend's message.
>
> Tell that to the judge.
>
What judge, troll?
> --
> PJR :-)
George Dance
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT),
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 5:19 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 08:53:45 -0700 (PDT),
>
> >> the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz> wrote:
> >> > Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
> >> > think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
> >> > the top of the post.
>
> >> Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
> >> posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
>
> >> How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
> >> AAPC and elsewhere?
>
> > Don't forget "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Dylan Thomas.
> > That was posted onto RAP by an account using the name "Chuck Lysaght,
> > too, right?
>
> Message-ID?
>
> > The fact is, he was being forged by stAUKers at the time,
>
> Nope. Learn the difference between froggery and forgery.
Using Chuck Lysaght's real name was forgery.
> > and there's no way to tell which posts are from him and which are
> > stAUKer forgeries.
>
> Nope. Learn how to read headers.
None of the headers match those on Lysaght's posts. All we have is
your word that he used to post from those accounts - and there's no
reason to believe you.
>
> > Like this one, for instance: all the message ID proves is that someone
> > posted it:
>
> >> "I openly admitted that I ripped off the poems, and posted them on a
> >> website, and posted them in usenet."
> >> - chuckles the plagiarising clown,
> >> in Message-ID <baeb9763.0108051801.2eae6...@posting.google.com>
>
> Why have you obfuscated the Message-ID?
Do you mean "truncated," oh Oxymoron? Google does that (as you've been
told) to strings with an @ symbol in them, like email addresses and
message ID's. Which is one reason I don't use them.
>
> Message-ID <baeb9763.0108051801.2eae6...@posting.google.com>
>
Heh ... Maybe you can coax She-Who-Should-Not-Be-Named into the thread
to tell us that Google is going to hold me "legally responsible" for
that.
> I know that the obfuscation is automatic in Google Gropes
So you do mean "truncation," and you do remember what I told you about
your email address (which you insist I'm using to send you "abusive
emails, even though you know I can't see it). So why did you ask?
> , but you
> choose to be a Google Groper
No, I chose to use Deja News a decade ago. If there were a better web
interface with usenet, I'd use that instead.
> , and such obfuscations must be the only
> advantage its crappy service offers you.
>
If you know of a better web interface, I'm sure I'm not the only one
who'd like to hear about it.
> > Even if this admission is from Lysaght,
>
> It was posted from Google Gropes, using the skywri...@iopener.net
> account. Either chuckles's account was hacked, or he posted it.
>
Ho, hum. I've seen no proof, on your FAQ or anywhere else, that any of
the accounts were Lysaght's. Do you have any?
> > it might just be evidence that
> > you offered him the same type of deal you offered me during that
> > Leonard Cohen nonsensse, and unlike me he was stupid enough to believe
> > you.
>
> What deal did I offer you, Dunce?
I'm not sure you've forgotten, but I am sure that not every reader
remembers. The deal you offered me was:
That if I posted a document that you wrote for me, confessing to
having plagiarized the Cohen poem, you and your friends would forgive
me and never mention it again. Whereas, if I did not post that
document, you and your friends would continue to call me a
plagiarist.
It's in the archives.
> Fuck off and die
Now, now, there's no reason to get nasty.
> , and in exchange
> I'll buy you a headstone?
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> I have to comment
No, don't feel obliged.
<drivelsnip>
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 3:02 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter J Ross wrote innews:slrnj99bc...@peterjross.me.uk:
>>
>> > At the back of my mind there's a plan to write something that will
>> > impress Fred and make him think that the sonnet form isn't dead yet.
>>
>> I would read your sonnet with an open mind
>
> Indeed, PJR, bring it on... if the poem is any good I'll be the first
> to say so!
You'd have no means of knowing whether it was any good or not.
--
PJR :-)
George Dance
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 2:28 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT),
>> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Oct 9, 5:19 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> >> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 9 Oct 2011 08:53:45 -0700 (PDT),
>>
>> >> the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz> wrote:
>> >> > Fred is a fuckhead. And so is Ross. But I fail to see why anyone would
>> >> > think that Fred stole this poem. He wrote the title and the author at
>> >> > the top of the post.
>>
>> >> Did you write the title and author of Michael Cicero's poems when you
>> >> posted two of them to AAPC in 2001, chuckles?
>>
>> >> How about the three or four of Andy Kaufman's poems that you posted to
>> >> AAPC and elsewhere?
>>
>> > Don't forget "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Dylan Thomas.
>> > That was posted onto RAP by an account using the name "Chuck Lysaght,
>> > too, right?
>>
>> Message-ID?
>>
>> > The fact is, he was being forged by stAUKers at the time,
>>
>> Nope. Learn the difference between froggery and forgery.
>
> Using Chuck Lysaght's real name was forgery.
No it wasn't, stupid kook.
Try reporting this post for forgery, and see how loud the abuse admin
laughs.
>> > and there's no way to tell which posts are from him and which are
>> > stAUKer forgeries.
>>
>> Nope. Learn how to read headers.
>
> None of the headers match those on Lysaght's posts.
Learn how to read headers.
> All we have is
> your word that he used to post from those accounts - and there's no
> reason to believe you.
*giggle*
All "we" have is your word that I wrote the post to which you're
replying - where "we" stands for "stupid people who haven't learned
how to read headers".
<drivelsnip>
Make your posts shorter and less illucid, and I might read them all
the way through.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> You'd have no means of knowing whether it was any good
I'd kmow if your poem was as boring and unreadable as your usual sing-
song rhymes, though.
You should get over the fact that Allen Ginsberg was a better, and
more original, poet than you'll ever be, PJR.
--
In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the
Mind):
http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
Will Dockery
Looks like George hit a nerve when he nailed your silly jealousy of
Ginsberg's poetry, which is obviously far superior to your derive,
PJRl:
<unsnip>
> > > HOWL
>
> > > by Allen Ginsberg
>
> > Removing about three quarters of the adjectives and adverbs might
> > improve it.
>
> > As it stands, I think it's unreadable
>
> I have to comment on that, PJ, as it shows what a silly troll you are.
> It doesn`t matter a damn how ``readable`` Howl is, because it`s not
> designed to be read. It`s a performance piece, designed to be recited
> and listened to.
>
> You`ve probably forgotten how, just a year or so ago, you and ``the
> poet Barbara`s Cat`` were insisting that all poetry was supposed to be
> spoken (and listened to), rather than read off a page. And now, when a
> poem comes along that fits your alleged rule, you`re completely
> oblivious.
>
> (Hint: If in the future you stick to saying only what you believe -
> ie, start being honest - you won`t be embarrassed by faux pas like
> that.)
>
> > tripe.
>
> You can`t understand something, so you decide it must be no good.
> Typical.
>
> In reality, Ginsberg was a better poet than you could dream of being.
"We know."
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> boring
> In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the
> Mind):
> http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> silly
> In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the
> Mind):
> http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> > silly
>
> In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the Mind):
>
>http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
>
> --
> PJR :-)
Thanks for taking the time to read & listen, & to give what passes for
critique from you on the poem, PJR.
Heh.
Will Dockery
Yes, and it is suprising to see the jealousy PJR shows towards real
poets such as Allen Ginsberg... helps explain his delusional
desperation somewhat.
--
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> delusional
> In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the
> Mind):
> http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
> > delusional
>
> In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the Mind):
> >http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
>
> --
> PJR :-)
Your critique is a bit lazy, but thanks for taking the time to read
and comment, PJR.
Will Dockery
>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Top this boys and girls
>
> > >> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
> > >> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>
> > >> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
> > > And you claim it isn't.
>
> > Plagiarists and Allied Thieving Trades
So you're thinking Michael Cook is still a casual reader of the
newsgroup, PJR?
> has objected to Fred's post, so
> > he doesn't need to be defended.
No, Fred posted Allen Ginsberg's poem in entirety, but on Usenet
that's fair use... so remember this the next time you have the urge to
whine about such matters, PJR.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the Mind):
>> >http://youtu.be/ZGUZmzvqRP4
> lazy
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> > >> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive only
>> > >> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>>
>> > >> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>>
>> > > And you claim it isn't.
>>
>> > Nobody who isn't a paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of
>> > Plagiarists and Allied Thieving Trades
I wrote the above, not Georgie Dunce as your quote-markers imply.
> So
So you can't quote text properly, you attach your replies as
follow-ups to the wrong posts, and you're obsessed with Michael Cook.
Give me a reason not to throw you back into the killfile.
<unreaddrecksnip>
Learn.
How.
To.
Post.
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
> > Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>> On Oct 9, 1:52 am, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Top this boys and girls
>
> >>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive
> >>> > only
> >>> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>
>> >> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>
>> > And you claim it isn't.
>
>> Nobody who isn't a paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of
>> Plagiarists and Allied Thieving Trades
>
> I wrote the above
I know, PJR.
And I asked if Michael Cook, the most well-known thief and plagiarist on
Usenet, was back, since you were referring to him there, obviously.
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> PJR
>
> Michael Cook
Who else owns a substantial chunk of Dreckery's head?
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
>
>
> Who else owns
You accidentally snipped the context of this post, and why the copyright
thief Michael Cook's name came up, PJR.
Here, I'll unsnip it for you so you won't be so confused:
>>>>>>> Top this boys and girls
>>
>> >>> > That was a pretty big poem you stole, Fred; I managed to archive
>> >>> > only
>> >>> > half of it in my last post. Here's the whole thing:
>>
>>> >> When Fred posts it once, you say it's theft.
>>
>>> > And you claim it isn't.
>>
>>> Nobody who isn't a paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of
>>> Plagiarists and Allied Thieving Trades
>>
>> I wrote the above
>
> I know, PJR.
>
> And I asked if Michael Cook, the most well-known thief and plagiarist on
> Usenet, was back, since you were referring to him there, obviously.
Glad to help with clearing up your confusion, PJR.
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> so confused
--
PJR :-)
Will Dockery
"Fred Hall" <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9F793D72F9...@208.90.168.18...
> Hieronymous707 <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6d6bddbc-d657-
> 4656-a69a-4...@d18g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>
>>> by Allen Ginsberg
>>>
>>> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
>>> madness, starving hysterical naked,
>>> dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
>>> looking for an angry fix
<Ginsberg poem snipped for brevity>
>> Welcome one and all. Please read. Did
>> you know your ascent was needed
>> here? I clearly state for you
>> so you'll know just what you must do.
>>
>> Go to my room; consuming meaning.
>> There, you'll stand and stare while leaning
>> on the bat Cal Ripken gave. He
>> knows my dad like I do. Save me
>> from this dumb, retarded sounding
>> poem thingy, so astounding
>> in the way you see names drop
>> like where I mentioned a short ... stop.
>>
>
> Yer out!!!!
Well at least he gave it a shot... Allen Ginsberg is one tough act to
follow, after all.