Gothic poetry & Art
bob
people that would like there work on the internet. If you would like to see
you work sent it to
Tom Bishop
Please include:
- your age
- a picture of your girlfriend (for the contest)
- a really bad poem (things are slow since philip caved)
- your favorite color from the Crayola box.
- and a link and password to
the porn section of your website
Then maybe ...
--
Tom Bishop
"a rooster
an empty room
poverty"
http://Wordness.Here.Nu
http://Poetry.Here.Nu
"bob" <Reaper...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:FDAna.7930$h%2.63...@read1.cgocable.net...
Aidan Tynan
bob wrote in message ...
>I have just Started and site for gothic poetry and art and. I'm look for
>people that would like there work on the internet. If you would like to see
>you work sent it to
I'm writing an essay on Matthew Lewis you might be interested in.
-Aidan
>
>
>Reaper...@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
Philip Hawthorne
This is amusing; I haven't read one good piece of your work (if any at all),
yet you talk shit like a pig can wallow in it (read: with reckless
abandon).
Fucking troll. What did this poster do to you? Does the word "gothic"
intimidate, bewilder or estrange you? Can't you mindlessly goad people
elsewhere? The only others who need trolls here are your buddies; those who
get a laugh out of mutual immaturity. It seems immaturity also comes with a
distinctively unintelligent holier-than-thou opinion about poetry in
general, too.
And, for your information, new poetry coming soon. *plonk*
--
Philip Hawthorne
Peter J Ross
found Philip Hawthorne guilty of posting this:
<snip>
>And, for your information, new poetry coming soon. *plonk*
Since you've plonked all the regulars and have now even plonked your
spiritual twin, the Tomkook, why will you be bothering to post anything?
--
PJR :-)
==========================================================
mhm 34x8 ø TNPJRL aleph-null ø RLU 297915 ø LFS 7862
http://www.pjr-online.co.uk/ ø mëôw ø news:alt.fan.pjr
Alcatroll Labs Inc Graduate Researcher in Chuckles Studies
ø a.k.c-l FAQ: http://makeashorterlink.com/?B2BE51A72 ø
ø ø Official Maintainer of the One True soc.men FAQ: ø ø
ø http://www.insurgent.org/~alcatroll/Soc.men/faq.html ø
Usenet Valhalla Circle 1: refused on grounds of conscience
==========================================================
Tom Bishop
"Peter J Ross" <gad...@meow.org> wrote in message news:j4ao7b...@gadfly.meow.org...
> PJR :-)
You're a DT fan too, aren't cha..
What are your faves?
Me:
I Fellowed Sleep - this is just insane
Poem in Oct.
In The Beginning
All All And All..
Fern Hill
Anybooty.. Faves?
Thank you.
Qwerty_h
> found Philip Hawthorne guilty of posting this:
>
> <snip>
>
> >And, for your information, new poetry coming soon. *plonk*
>
> Since you've plonked all the regulars and have now even plonked your
> spiritual twin, the Tomkook, why will you be bothering to post anything?
>
> --
> PJR :-)
I would not be too surprised if he plonked himself, Peter.
There is just no understanding kooks.
-H
Aidan Tynan
Philip Hawthorne wrote in message ...
>> - a really bad poem (things are slow since philip caved)
>
>This is amusing; I haven't read one good piece of your work (if any at
all),
>yet you talk shit like a pig can wallow in it (read: with reckless
>abandon).
>
>Fucking troll. What did this poster do to you? Does the word "gothic"
>intimidate, bewilder or estrange you?
Hey, want to discuss the influence of the French Revolution and the
philosophy of John Locke on Gothic fiction?
-Aidan
Aidan Tynan
Tom Bishop wrote in message ...
>
>"Peter J Ross" <gad...@meow.org> wrote in message
news:j4ao7b...@gadfly.meow.org...
>> PJR :-)
>
>You're a DT fan too, aren't cha..
>
>What are your faves?
>
>
>Me:
>I Fellowed Sleep - this is just insane
>Poem in Oct.
>In The Beginning
>All All And All..
>Fern Hill
>
>Anybooty.. Faves?
I, in my Intricate Image
The Force that through the Green Fuse Drives the Flower
-Aidan
McNutt
bob wrote:
I've never written any Gothic Poetry.
---
Art
Paul Heslop
Awwww.... here's a classic from one L. Simpson
I had a cat named Snowball.
She died, she died.
Mom said she was sleeping.
She lied, she lied.
Why oh why is my little cat dead?
Couldn't that Chrysler hit me instead?
--
Paul. (All you had you wasted...)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Not what it seems...
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Rik Roots
> bob wrote:
>
<shite snip>
>
> I've never written any Gothic Poetry.
>
I have:
<ahem>
*Vampyr*
Dogs have knocked the coffin down
to the ground in search of his bones.
While the lid holds, the last slants
of the ebbing sun catch his face
through dryrot panels, rashing his skin.
Nightfall. He unhooks the security latch
and levers the squealing lid open,
winces, then stretches. Checks the room
for stakes and stakeholders. Stands
and shakes the soil from his cloak.
Sunrash has singed his cheeks, hatcheting
across forgotten laughter ley-lines.
By touch, he applies a white foundation,
thick, panning his visage. A cherry lipgloss
soothes his parchment lips. Fangs are flossed.
Beyond ablutions, he breathes deep and takes
the shape of Wolf. Calling the hounds of hell
to heel, he leaves his tumbledown crypt and pads
through municipal burial fields. Aims for the edge
of town and the cultivated deserts beyond.
Food is scarce in these declining decades.
Beef and long-pork are both contaminated prey.
He settles for short-pork, ripping the pig
before it can scream, tossing torn haunches
to his black pack. He gulps ruby fluid. Unglamorous,
yet safe. Leaving the factory farm, a glance
of moonlight shivers his spine. He checks for cats
before shaking his form into gargoyl faced bat. Takes
wing across wheatfields, arcs across pearl clouds.
Watches farmhands wreck profits with circles in corn.
Rik Roots (etc)
... though to be honest I don't think the Goths "get it"
> ---
> Art
Rik, knee deep
--
http://www.kalieda.org/poems/index.html
Pop in for a browse, when you have a moment to spare.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> McNutt wrote:
> >
> > bob wrote:
> >
> > > I have just Started and site for gothic poetry and art and. I'm look for
> > > people that would like there work on the internet. If you would like to see
> > > you work sent it to
> > >
> > > Reaper...@hotmail.com
> >
> > I've never written any Gothic Poetry.
> >
> > ---
> > Art
>
> Awwww.... here's a classic from one L. Simpson
>
> I had a cat named Snowball.
> She died, she died.
> Mom said she was sleeping.
> She lied, she lied.
>
> Why oh why is my little cat dead?
> Couldn't that Chrysler hit me instead?
>
> --
> Paul.
Here's a classic from one H. Simpson:
I had a little donut.
I ate, I ate.
Mommy offered sprinkles.
Too late, too late.
How oh how put my sprinkles on bread?
Couldn't I use a stomach-pump instead?
--
------(m+
~/:o)_|
A poem is no place
for a good loser.
http://scrawlmark.net
Paul Heslop
--
Paul. (You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?)
Aidan Tynan
Paul Heslop wrote in message <3EA121D4...@blueyonder.co.uk>...
>McNutt wrote:
>>
>> bob wrote:
>>
>> > I have just Started and site for gothic poetry and art and. I'm look
for
>> > people that would like there work on the internet. If you would like to
see
>> > you work sent it to
>> >
>> > Reaper...@hotmail.com
>>
>> I've never written any Gothic Poetry.
>>
>> ---
>> Art
>
>Awwww.... here's a classic from one L. Simpson
>
>I had a cat named Snowball.
>She died, she died.
>Mom said she was sleeping.
>She lied, she lied.
>
>Why oh why is my little cat dead?
>Couldn't that Chrysler hit me instead?
>
>
http://www.litgothic.com/Authors/lewis.html
I'm waiting for Goths to discuss Lewis with me!
-Aidan
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> Paul Heslop wrote in message <3EA121D4...@blueyonder.co.uk>...
> >McNutt wrote:
> >>
> >> bob wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have just Started and site for gothic poetry and art and. I'm look
> for
> >> > people that would like there work on the internet. If you would like to
> see
> >> > you work sent it to
> >> >
> >> > Reaper...@hotmail.com
> >>
> >> I've never written any Gothic Poetry.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Art
> >
> >Awwww.... here's a classic from one L. Simpson
> >
> >I had a cat named Snowball.
> >She died, she died.
> >Mom said she was sleeping.
> >She lied, she lied.
> >
> >Why oh why is my little cat dead?
> >Couldn't that Chrysler hit me instead?
> >
> >
>
> http://www.litgothic.com/Authors/lewis.html
>
> I'm waiting for Goths to discuss Lewis with me!
>
> -Aidan
Carroll, or C.S.?
Paul Heslop
actually he meant Shari
--
Paul. (You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?)
Aidan Tynan
Dennis M. Hammes
You think a Goth will actually go to the Matt?
Aidan Tynan
Paul Heslop
--
Paul. (You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?)
Aidan Tynan
cythera wrote in message ...
>"Aidan Tynan" <aty...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:<Y1Jna.9171$pK2....@news.indigo.ie>...
>> bob wrote in message ...
>> >I have just Started and site for gothic poetry and art and. I'm look for
>> >people that would like there work on the internet. If you would like to
see
>> >you work sent it to
>>
>> I'm writing an essay on Matthew Lewis you might be interested in.
>
Here you go then:
It is also, in the first place, that all passionate desire in this book is
really aroused, intensified, and answered by images more than objects or
bodies, by signifiers (to use the Sausserean term) more often than
signifieds or referents. (Jerold E. Hogle)
Attraction and repulsion in The Monk are textual, discursive, mediated by
copies and simulacra. Just as Burke turned the French Revolution into a
Gothic text, Lewis has made the idea of the revulsion and terror Burke felt
at this "marvellous" occurence a logomachy or contestation of signifiers.
Victor Turner's notion of social drama, of which the Revolution is one and
Lewis's novel another, is described in terms of liminality which, in
Turner's thesis, is the period between stages of social change. This period
is characterised by communitas, a freedom which is anti-structural and
threatens the fixity of the terms of society. The symbols through which life
is understood enter into anarchy and a "carnivalesque" atmosphere dominates.
Lewis's novel, in its narrative uncertainties and indeterminacy of identity,
describes this process. Sexuality is "intersexual"; good and evil collapse
on one another; people are mistaken for ghosts; identity is replaced by
disguise, and truth becomes subterfuge.
"One way in which The Monk anticipates the later production of the Freudian
"unconscious" to account for symptoms of middle-class life, as Lowry Nelson,
Jr., Leslie Fiedler, and Peter Brooks have shown it to do, (37) is the
novel's way of "throwing off" into a nether region -- or "abjecting," as
Julia Kristeva would say in Powers of Horror -- the actual, mixed, and very
fluid process of middle- class quests for identity through counterfeits as
though that process were not the dominant mode of self-formation it is and
as though it were morally monsterous when it displays itself too directly."
(Hogle)
By placing their protagonists at a distance from eighteenth-century
England--in medieval Italy, early Renaissance France, the Spain of the
Inquisition--Gothic novelists enabled the proliferation of criminality and
confusion. Such confusion involves a starkly physical problem of location
(one result of the labyrinthine architecture of the Gothic castle is its
opacity to heroines and readers alike), but encompasses as well ignorance as
to the motivation of others, difficulty in communication, the unreliability
of language itself. -- Cannon Schmitt
By portraying the antipodes of identity (good/evil, secular/sared,
male/female, creaturely/spectral) as fading away, Lewis appears to threaten
the establishment of any middle class consciousness for a post-Revolutionary
Europe. However, by setting his novel far away from late 18th century
Britain, the idea is suggested that such threats to stable political and
sexual identity are either historical or fantastical or both. Lewis
proliferated criminality and confusion but only at a remove from Britain.
However, as Burke's Reflections reveal, the idea of the politically
marvelous and monstrous was a reality, and not a Gothic fantasy. The
co-existence of the marvelous and the real in politics that dominates
Burke's modernist text.
The presence of the inquisition in Lewis's novel relates to Foucault's idea
of panopticonal society. But the world of Lewis's novel is a world of codes
and norms inscribed in practice: virtue, indentity, gender, piety are
subverted by intersexed states, moral uncertainties, disguise and
impersonation. The ultimate re-assertion of power and the fixity of identity
is the conclusion of a series of narratives seeking mutual integration into
a fixed moral point. Lewis replaces morality with power.
The Monk is a world of desire, but as Hogle has pointed out the characters'
search for their objects of desire is in fact a pursuit of counterfeits and
fakes. The characters are all in liminal states chasing objects of further
liminality. Radcliffe attacked this form of "terror" as overly fantastical,
not "reasonable" enough to constitute Radcliffe's "horror". Lewis, by
pushing his logomachy and play of textuality over the top, seemed to
Radcliffe to remove the Gothic genre from any position within a rational
social discourse on fear.
-Aidan
>>
>>
>> -Aidan
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Reaper...@hotmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
Dennis M. Hammes
A gloss o' Guinness, roit?
Or a gloss o' Lalea?
Dennis M. Hammes
A trifle? That's more than a mil on the gloss...
Paul Heslop
I'm brushing you off... I'll just get the Roller!
Aidan Tynan
>Hi
>Okay, a few comments. You're a good writer, no question about that.
>So here goes::
>
>I.
>I know I'm not reading the whole essay but I'm having trouble seeing
>a.
>what your thesis is
Okay, you're spot on about these being cleaned up notes, and I won't really
know how I'm going to synthesise all the different strands until my final
write-up, but generally this is my attempt to show (using a New Historicist
approach) how Gothic fiction was implicated in the social changes
surrounding the French revolution (using Burke's "Reflections" as a
co-text). Gothic is so often deemed an escapist genre that I wanted to
illustrate how ideas of terror, superstition and the marvelous (and other
"anti-realist" traits) were constructed not only within fictional/literary
texts (such as the novel) but also within rationalist, realist texts (such
as the political tract). Burke's "Reflections" characterised the revolution
as something monstrous and fantastical, that is to say as something
"Gothic", which opposed the burgeoning modernisation (the fall of the
aristocracy, the rise of the middle class, the primacy of rationalist
discourse and empiricism). This liminal (in-between/chaotic) period between
the death of the aristocratic superstition and the rise of the middle class,
rationalist ways of seeing the world as a replacement for the old order was
characterised, I think, by a rise in notions of anti-realism. The fact that
bourgeois subjectivity is founded on this unrealism is a fact hidden by
modernity because of the former's threat to the stability of class identity.
But during the late 18th century this un/anti-realism was prominent in both
political and aesthetic discourses. Burke called the French revolution
marvelous and monstrous, (we can reading Frankenstein in this way too). The
anti-realism of the Gothic novel (The Monk being a prime example) was in
fact based on very real changes in how European society was re-organising
itself.
>b.
>how what you've got here explicates it
>
>II.
>Paragraph transitions seem to be missing.
>
>III.
>Use examples, e.g., as you did in the paragraph in which you mention
>Kristeva
These are good points, and I hope to address them in my final version.
>
>A few comments are below:
>
>
>> It is also, in the first place, that all passionate desire in this book
is
>> really aroused, intensified, and answered by images more than objects or
>> bodies, by signifiers (to use the Sausserean term) more often than
>> signifieds or referents. (Jerold E. Hogle)
>
>
>And what is it in the second place? :)
The essay's on the net, just put Hogle and Monk into google and you'll find
it. His basic point is that middle class consciousness is based on
simulacral/counterfeit (I'd add liminal) notions and not on a definite sense
of identity or a political Real.
>
>Anyway, I'm thinking your draft is still rough, and that these are
>basically your cleaned-up notes, so I'll just make a few more
>comments, below. I've read what you have and so far I'm finding it
>interesting, and would love to read it when you've fleshed it out
>more.
>Thank you for showing it to me.
My pleasure. It's nice to think that someone other than my professors will
read it :)
>
>
>> Attraction and repulsion in The Monk are textual, discursive, mediated by
>> copies and simulacra.
>
>How so re attraction?
I'm not sure if you've read the Monk (my apologies if you have) but in it
various characters are tricked or otherwise mislead into believing the
objects of their lust are other than they appear to be, or conversely lust
after disguised figures. It's a novel about deception, mostly.
>Same question re repulsion ---
It's a recurrent theme in the Monk that objects of lust and objects of
repulsion often fuse and intermix. The narrative is always driven by
uncertainty, and Lewis in the end has to resort to semi-medieval concepts to
provide a conclusion (eg, the unvirtuous will get their comeuppance, if not
in this world in the next). People have criticised Lewis for not providing a
satisfying ending, or rather resorting to medievalist metaphysics to provide
one, but I think it's the whole point of the novel that the ending
(traditionally a point of certainty) founders on the uncertainty on which
the narrative is based.
-Aidan
>(i.e., if this is part of your thesis, shouldn't each element be
>explicated somewhere below?)
Philip Hawthorne
> philosophy of John Locke on Gothic fiction?
Only if I can rape you, gothically.
--
Philip Hawthorne