Re: Poem from Halloween / Cythera
Will Dockery
"Cythera" <cyt...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:bfb4eda1-f5a1-45ce...@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> >
> Overheard in a Graveyard
<snipped for copyright purposes>
This is just a heads-up, I won't crosspost it, but wanted to let everyone
know that Cythera has posted an excellent (in places) poem over at r.a.p:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/2e43124103b67679?hl=en
Well worth a look, and it almost was buried... as with Cook's recent work,
it was showing up here on my OE reader but not on Google Groups, oddly
enough.
There's still a possibility that Cythera might yet become a worthy member of
the poetry groups, after all...
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
>
> you were wrong about which Led
> Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
That's fine, I was just naming the incident from memory. I have quite a few
Moby Grape records, no Led Zeppelin, and planned to go back to the Usenet
thread where I first read about it.
This looks like a good time to do that, since the subject is fresh, again,
thanks, Cyth.
--
"Writing is creative lying." -Harlan Ellison said that.
"When cheating is for losers, and playing straight's for fools... you never
know which way to go." -I said that.
From "Black Crow's Brother" by Will Dockery & Gini Woolfolk, now playing on
MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
>
> > you were wrong about which Led
> > Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
No, you're wrong, really, Cyth, but that's hardly surprising... I had
the right Led Zeppelin song, but I thought maybe, the wrong Moby Grape
song. Turns out that I was right all along, sorry.
So I was half right and you're all wrong, as usual:
http://www.turnmeondeadman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40&Itemid=50
"...Since I've Been Loving You
Led Zeppelin: Plagiarism?
"Since I've Been Loving You" is a slow blues number on Led Zeppelin
III, which was released in 1970. The common perception of Led
Zeppelin's blues tracks is that they were plagiarized from an older
African-American artist. That is not the case with "Since I've Been
Loving You," though. On this track Robert Plant drew on the work of
Moby Grape, a roots-oriented psychedelic band from San Francisco who
were active in the late-1960s. Moby Grape's song "Never," on the 1968
album Grape Jam, is an extended blues workout with a tempo and meter
similar to "Since I've Been Loving You." More importantly, "Never"
features some of the same phrases and lyrical theme that Robert Plant
uses in "Since I've Been Loving You." Compare the opening verse of
"Never"
Working from 11:00 to 7:00 every night
Ought to make life a drag
And I know that ain't right
to the opening verse of "Since I've Been Loving You"
Working from 7:00 to 11:00 every night
It really makes life a drag
I don't think that's right.
Also, both songs include the turn of phrase "the best of fools,"
plaintive cries of "I love you, baby" and references to crying, though
the lyrics appear in somewhat altered form in "Since I've Been Love
You." This means that the opening and closing verses as well as the
bridge of "Since I've Been Loving You" draw heavily from "Never." ..."
There you have it: Moby Grape: Never. Led Zep: Since I've Been Loving
You. HTH.
> That's fine, I was just naming the incident from memory. I have quite a few
> Moby Grape records, no Led Zeppelin, and planned to go back to the Usenet
> thread where I first read about it.
>
> This looks like a good time to do that, since the subject is fresh, again,
> thanks, Cyth.
No thanks for sticking your foot in your mouth /again/, though,
Cythera.
Evil Rev Returns
1962 a Willie Dixon composition). "Babe I'm Gonna Leave Ya" was on a
Joan Baex album 2 years before the release of the 1st Zeppelin record.
I believe that I've heard the "Stairway To Heaven" intro in some
Celtic pieces.
ER
Paul Heslop
Joan Baex... who she? :O)
--
Paul (we break easy)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Will Dockery
wrote:
Yeah, they're regular Dale Houstmen on the "plagiarism & collage era"
Dale writes about.
"It is okay to steal..." -Dale Houstman
Evil Rev Returns
Joan Baex... who she? :O)
She used to hang out w/Bub Dylam :) :)
ER
No Typos, USA
Will Dockery
>
> "Babe I'm Gonna Leave Ya" was on a Joan Baex
>
> Joan Baex... who she? :O)
Three guesses... heh.
But back to the subject, Led Zeppelin borrowing from old (and usually)
public domain sources in the folk & blues tradition are very different
from Houstmanizing material from their more obscure peers, such as
Moby Grape. A credit line to Skip Spence et al (MG had five
songwriters in the band & I'm not sure who was credited with the song
Led Zep swiped just now) would not only have been, imo, a nice
gesture, but a source of some much-needed cash, since by this time
Moby Grape had already fallen on hard times.
Y'all get the difference in this song and the others Led Zeppelin
borrowed before and after? Or maybe there are more, even less well-
known examples?
--
New poetry & music recordings by Will Dockery
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
> --
Ismael Strom
> I believe that I've heard the "Stairway To Heaven" intro in some
> Celtic pieces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_California
"It has been said that Jimmy Page plagiarized Randy's guitar part from
"Taurus" on the first Spirit album, when he wrote Led Zeppelin's
"Stairway to Heaven" although this is denied by Page. However, Led
Zeppelin was the opening act on the road for Spirit in 1968 which has
further fueled this controversy. In 1996, in the liner notes for the
reissue of Spirit's first album, Randy California stated "people
always ask me why 'Stairway to Heaven' sounds exactly like 'Taurus,'
which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played
'Fresh Garbage' in their live set. They opened up for us on their
first American tour".[4] Since "Fresh Garbage" is a song from the same
album that includes the song "Taurus", this only adds to the
controversy that Led Zeppelin was at least aware of the song."
Will Dockery
Wow... the Plant & Page songwriting team sure have some sticky
fingers, eh?
--
New poetry & music recordings by Will Dockery
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
ebsound
I know This will stir up stuff a bit but the two tracks really don't
sound much alike to me, other than they both have a descending bass
line.
--
ebsound
--
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Will Dockery
> On 2009-12-08 13:41:36 -0500, Will Dockery said:
> > On Dec 8, 1:45 am, Ismael Strom <ismaelst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 6, 9:40 am, Evil Rev Returns <evilrevisb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I believe that I've heard the "Stairway To Heaven" intro in some
> >>> Celtic pieces.
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_California
>
> >> "It has been said that Jimmy Page plagiarized Randy's guitar part from
> >> "Taurus" on the first Spirit album, when he wrote Led Zeppelin's
> >> "Stairway to Heaven" although this is denied by Page. However, Led
> >> Zeppelin was the opening act on the road for Spirit in 1968 which has
> >> further fueled this controversy. In 1996, in the liner notes for the
> >> reissue of Spirit's first album, Randy California stated "people
> >> always ask me why 'Stairway to Heaven' sounds exactly like 'Taurus,'
> >> which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played
> >> 'Fresh Garbage' in their live set. They opened up for us on their
> >> first American tour".[4] Since "Fresh Garbage" is a song from the same
> >> album that includes the song "Taurus", this only adds to the
> >> controversy that Led Zeppelin was at least aware of the song."
>
> > Wow... the Plant & Page songwriting team sure have some sticky
> > fingers, eh?
>
> I know This will stir up stuff a bit but the two tracks really don't
> sound much alike to me, other than they both have a descending bass
> line.
Yeah, in the case of Led Zep's Houstmanizing Moby Grape, the swipe was
mainly lyrics, best I can figure... line-for-line swiping...
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
> --
Will Dockery
Sonnet #116
Posted:
CXVI.
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.
-William Shakespeare
Will Dockery
>
> > Sonnet #116
> > Posted:
> > CXVI.
>
> > Let me not to the marriage of true minds
> > Admit impediments. Love is not love
> > Which alters when it alteration finds,
> > Or bends with the remover to remove:
> > O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
> > That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
> > It is the star to every wandering bark,
> > Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
> > Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
> > Within his bending sickle's compass come:
> > Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
> > But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
> > If this be error and upon me proved,
> > I never writ, nor no man ever loved.
>
> > -William Shakespeare
>
Yeah, I thought it was worthwhile... been kind of slow around here
lately, probably because of the holidays.