Most difficult art? [was: Teaching methods?]
Tom
>
> how the hell do does that person know that dance is the most difficult of
> the art? how many of the arts has this person tried to master. I've
> been in dance for 30 years and I would never believe that.
Assuming that I am "that person," I reply,
Okay, the most difficult for me; YMMV. This is after trying musical per-
formance (on a variety of instruments), drawing, painting, sculpture,
writing, & acting; which may not encompass all the arts, but are a pretty
fair sample.
I suspect it is most difficult for most people, however. With the
exception of acting, it's the only art that involves the entire body. At
the piano, you must hold your arms & wrists in the proper way & mustn't
slouch, but that's about it, & you learn that in the first few months.
But in ballet everything has to be in the right place at the right time.
Placement is probably the first essential; certainly that was what my very
first teacher told me.
It is also the only art, with the exception of singing, in which you must
*build* the instrument you are using. It's as if you had to build your own
piano or violin or whatever as you were learning to play it.
It's not just the arts, either. Most people have told me that mathematics
was the hardest thing they ever tackled. But, as I've written elsewhere,
if you do math, you may have to beat your brains out finding how to get
from this equation to the next; but in so doing you need only concentrate
on the problem at hand. But in ballet you must concentrate on *everything*
(which, when you come to think of it, is a contradiction in terms). It is
as if, in math, you had to concern yourself with your posture at the table,
and with how you are holding the pencil, and with how beautifully you are
writing the symbols that go into that next equation and whether it is
centered on its line. And ballet happens in real time; they are playing
music and you must keep up with it. In math, if you need twenty minutes to
decide what your next step must be, you take twenty minutes. (Isaac Newton
once took a week.) But you cannot delay for twenty minutes as you figure
out which foot to move next or which way to turn your head.
So those are some of the reasons for what may have seemed an extravagant
statement. If, on the basis of some thirty years' dancing, you find ballet
less than formidable, I can only say that you leave me gasping. (And
envious.)
Tom Parsons
--
--
t...@panix.com | The opposite of bravery is
| not cowardice, but conformity.
http://www.panix.com/~twp | --Dr. Robert Anthony
MadHatterHere
bulletin board at several locations that I frequent
(dance related, of course)? This reply is precious!
Christi Rose.
> So those are some of the reasons for what may have seemed an extravagant
> statement. If, on the basis of some thirty years' dancing, you find ballet
> less than formidable, I can only say that you leave me gasping. (And
> envious.)
When I first started, I found ballet technique easy. Real easy. Then my
teacher started nitpicking on artistry. For this, Ballet is much more
intellectually challenging than physically challenging to me.
You mean it's not enough to just feel the music? You mean it's not enough
to just move the music? You mean that I gotta convey the music? Oy. This is
what I find so hard as there are no books that teach subtlety,
interpretation, and how to find and convey THE MEANING OF IT ALL.
Darn, those uncountable intangibles really count for so much.
plodding along,
Christi.
--
"There are too many stars and not enough sky."
-- Tori Amos
*** send replies to carose at metro dot net ***
Anthony
> Adamchick was goaded into exclaiming,
> >
> > how the hell do does that person know that dance is the most difficult of
> > the art? how many of the arts has this person tried to master. I've
> > been in dance for 30 years and I would never believe that.
So Adamchick, out of interest - what do you reckon _is_ the most difficult art?
> It's not just the arts, either. Most people have told me that mathematics
> was the hardest thing they ever tackled. But, as I've written elsewhere,
> if you do math, you may have to beat your brains out finding how to get
> from this equation to the next; but in so doing you need only concentrate
> on the problem at hand. But in ballet you must concentrate on *everything*
> (which, when you come to think of it, is a contradiction in terms).
Absolutely spot on - I couldn't agree more. And I think that's why something
like ballet is such excellent training for the mind as well as the body. I
never found math(s)/physics anything like as difficult as ballet*, because as
you say Tom, with math(s) you can focus on one concept at a time. And as you
also said, with math(s) you can stop for a brief rest if you need it, because
once you've solved an equation, the result is written down and the process is
frozen until you're ready to take it further. You can't stop mid-sequence in
ballet - if I've learned anything in dance so far, it's that you always have to
keep going, no matter what.
*[Actually this is not quite true; I got bogged down with quantized angular
momentum and perturbation theory - too many L's, J's & S's for my liking.
Nonetheless, solving a Spin problem on paper is still proving to have been much
easier than solving a Spin problem on the dance-floor - those pirouettes are
some way off yet.]
> It is
> as if, in math, you had to concern yourself with your posture at the table,
> and with how you are holding the pencil, and with how beautifully you are
> writing the symbols that go into that next equation and whether it is
> centered on its line.
(I'd say it's more like trying to solve several different math(s) problems at
once. How many mathematics students can do calculus of variations at exactly
the same time as solving the equations of motion for a complex rotating body?)
A.
Tr...@email.fake
t...@panix.com (Tom) wrote a fabulous posting which I am in entire
agreement with. However, I feel I must comment on:
>I suspect it is most difficult for most people, however. With the
>exception of acting, it's the only art that involves the entire body.
Not quite Tom. Many of the circussy things I do involve the entire
body. I personally found the early stages of learning to juggling
much more difficult that learning to ballet. I could already
turn out from the hips a bit, but I could not throw a ball from
hand to hand in the required figure 8 pattern.
These days I find ballet much more hard work that juggling, but that
could have a lot to do with the motivation that comes from within.
While I want to improve both my ballet and my juggling (and the
other circussy things), I am working much harder at ballet than I
am at juggling. Both arts require practice; I find ballet class a
pleasure and juggling practice a chore. I also enjoy walking the
wire a lot. Ballet and wire techniques are very similar in some ways,
and I find I get the same sense of well being in my body after a
challenging session of each.
The only area that ballet class has over wire practice is the time
is shared with lovely teachers and my fellow class mates. It is
always much more fun to do something surrounded by like minded people.
I have to practice wire on my own as few are interested in putting in
the hours required (and I have no teacher any more).
Anyway Tom, as usual your posting are very informative and interesting
to read. Keep them coming!
Trog Woolley
(A Croweater languishing in Pommie Land)
Isis Astarte Diana Hecate Demeter Kali Inanna
Gary Echternacht
>art?
Adamchick knows that there is no answer to this question, because the various
arts are just not comparable. Each has its own characteristics that are
unbelievably difficult to master.
Of course we dancers love to hear how our art is the most this and the most
that. That gives us pride and esprit. But I'm reasonably sure that if you
asked groups of musicians, actors, visual artists, or writers, each would come
to the conclusion that their art was truly the most difficult art.
Gary Echternacht
Tom
>
> Tom....May I have permission to hang this on the
> bulletin board at several locations that I frequent
> (dance related, of course)? This reply is precious!
Er...well, it isn't as good as it should have been. First, I should have
made it clear that those other arts I listed in my first paragraph weren't
all pursued in depth--just enough to make it clear what my limitations were
& how difficult they could be. Please don't think I'm claiming to be able
to play the Hammerklavier in the afternoon & Hamlet in the evening!
Second, I should have mentioned discouragement, which is the real mental
danger attending ballet. It's the feeling that you're never going to get
it right, that in spite of all the years you've been taking class, you're
still no good. The actual difficulty of ballet feeds this discouragement,
& the discouragement in turn makes ballet harder, since you are at your
best only when you feel good about yourself.
The lack of feedback is an additional problem. You get corrections, sure,
but you have no real idea of how you're doing in general. A writer can
look at earlier work & note his improvement, & so can a graphic or plastic
artist. A musician, if her ear is well trained, can monitor her progress.
For us there is only the mirror, & even that doesn't always speak truth.
And it's so hard to summon up the courage to ask a teacher, "How am I
doing?" especially since we fear the answer will be, "Not very well."
I suspect that the really talented dancers, the ones who become profes-
sionals & stars, suffer less from these problems than the rest of us. Then
again, maybe not...
Tom
NotDeby
when their natural talents lie elsewhere.
And never say dance is the most difficult around 'any' non-dance artist
suffering from "block" or other creative crises ").
But I loved your testimony, Tom.
NotDeby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"J'ever see Paris?" "No," said Oblio.
"J'ever see New Delhi?" Oblio said, "No."
"Well, that's it. You see what you want to see and you hear
what you want to hear."
- "The Point," Harry Nilsson
Anthony
NotDeby wrote:
> I think the most difficult art is the one an artist is driven to pursue,
> when their natural talents lie elsewhere.
Absolutely; good answer! Ballet is certainly the toughest art for me, as my
talents definitely lie elsewhere - just wish I could find out where,
precisely.....
And I loved Grover's post ("It's not too late to start")....
If Steve & Rachel are the "young Princes and Princesses of movement" (what a
wonderful expression!), I guess I must be the Court Jester - I certainly get
enough laughs. (None of them intentional, though.)
Anyway, the point of this post is to thank all those who took the time to respond
to my original query ("Teaching methods") - I've now found another school where
the classes are much more what I've been looking for. Beginners are acknowledged
as such, and the tuition is great. (And yes, steps are taught in isolation; we
dance combinations too, but the teacher is careful to check that we know what
we're supposed to be doing first.)
So thanks for all your help and advice! (Including those I disagreed with; all
input is much appreciated, even if I don't take the same view, in the end.)
A.
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