Newbie Q --> Oils On Paper ... plz help?
gloworm
a week now, having only recently discovered this group. so ummm ...
Hello Everyone ~~~ ;)
k, my question (er problem) is less about oils on paper than it is
gesso on paper. my goal is to experiment with oil washes over pen&ink
on paper. i know i first must prime the paper with gesso, sooo taped
down on all four edges i paint on the gesso. let it dry. now my papers
are buckled, warped, or whatever-you-wanna-call-it.
the papers i've used:
70lb drawing paper
bristol paper for pen&ink <-- it's more like a thin card than paper
i've used acrylic (sans gesso) on both these papers with no trouble.
i'll get buckling when wet, but once the paint/paper has dried it's
flat again. not so with the gesso.
so the question, what to do? press the gesso-ed pages under books to
flatten them back out, OR can acrylic paint work instead as a (paper)
primer with oils on top? actually, i've already tried the latter with
nice results, but i question the lifespan of the work ...
any advice/ideas on the matter would be much appreciated!! thanks!
Artboy from Oz
I was reading in a book on the art techniques of Patrick Woodroffe, my fantasy art hero, where he
will do an ink or pencil drawing on any old paper, then bring the picture up with oil glazes. This
is obviously delicate work.
He used a clear coating first, then diluted his oils with Liquin, I think. I made a terrible
mistake and lent the book to a relative's girlfriend just before they broke up....d'oh!
Therefore tis is from memory.
I tried this myself using a Liquitex clear gloss medium and varnish coating first, then used
whatever I felt later. The trick is to keep it all transparent.
Hope this helps,
Greg.
PS Niall, if you see this, I've been trying to post replies to you but my software keeps eating
them.
Elizabeth Guizzetti
use Daniel Smith's brand of gesso, I am sure there are differences between
brands.) I have tried a variety of weights and I prefer using watercolor
paper at least 140lb. I have also had success stretching the paper on wood
and then gessoing and painting.
As for acrylic paints as your base, I don't know. I have heard the debate
go both ways, some say that the oil paints won't adhesive to the acrylic
paint. Other people have said if the acrylic is done in thin coats it works
well. But I have not used acrylic paints as my base, so I don't know first
hand.
Good Luck,
Beth
"gloworm" <glo...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:29kveuks3akdmsqn2...@4ax.com...
Nerd Gerl
>go both ways, some say that the oil paints won't adhesive to the acrylic
>paint. Other people have said if the acrylic is done in thin coats it works
>well. But I have not used acrylic paints as my base, so I don't know first
>hand.
>
>Good Luck,
>Beth
Oil will not stick to acrylic at all - ever. I tried it once and never again!
.......................................................................
. Naked Angel Art: http://www.rcip.com/nerdgerl .
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Niall
> Oil will not stick to acrylic at all - ever. I tried it once and never
again!.......
I glazed a finished layered acrylic painting will oils
and it stuck
I have several books that sing the praises
of underpainting oils with acylics......
(Speed of acrylics, lustre of oils)
Did it not work at all or was it on a long term basis
PS. Hi Greg, are you replying to group or me?
I have a bogey address for spammers
Niall
Bedges
> Oil will not stick to acrylic at all - ever. I tried it once and never again!
oh-kay. so that painting i did for a client will be sliding off the
canvas and onto the floor as i type. oops.
in my experience, oil over acrylics goes, and in fact in some cases
acrylic over oils goes too - stop those disbeliving gasps right now -
i said in *some* cases - practically none, but still some, like when
you scrub an oil painting down with washing-up liquid to de-greasify
the surface.
anyways, back to the matter in question, gloworm {aww} -
taping paper works for watercolours, but stretching paper is a much
better way of avoiding those picturesque undulating waves of buckled
paper.
(apologies if this isn't new to you) -
stick some cold water in the bath, shove the paper in and go and make
a cup of something warm. when you come back, depending on the
thickness of the paper, you should see little dark areas start to come
through. this is when you realise you need a flat drawing board and
some gummed tape. and a sponge. in fact, you should probably have
these to hand in the first place.
can anyone say "Blue Peter"?
so you gently pick out the paper from the bath, let the excess water
drip off, and then lay it on the board, from the centre out to avoid
air bubbles. sponge the surface (gently) and then tape the edges down
with moistened gummed tape, long edges first. lay it somewhere quiet
and (more importantly) flat.
time for another cuppa.
you can then prime with gesso - i would use two or three thin coats
instead of one thick one - and while it may buckle slightly, the paper
will flatten while drying, same with acrylic. it's the drying time, i
believe. if the medium on the surface dries before the paper, the
buckling remains. keep it thin and watery and build it up, that way
the paper has a chance to soak up the medium.
keep it taped to the board until you're finished the painting and it's
completely dry. that's *completely* dry - the number of times i've
been too impatient and had the meisterwerk slowly start buckling right
there in front of my eyes... don't do it kids; it's not worth the
tears.
as for longevity; acrylic, gesso, same difference. just make sure the
paper is adequately protected so the oils don't rot it through and you
should be okay.
hope this helps, gloworm.
oh, and welcome to the group. almost forgot.
gloworm
i'll give the clear coating a try. you do mean without gesso, right?
and would the ink be on top or under the clear coat? if that doesn't
work i'll try thicker paper with gesso.
as for oils not adhering to acrylic ... i'm pretty sure you guys have
this backwards. *acrylic* will not adhere to *oils*, but MANY oil
(canvas) painters use acrylic for underpaintings since it dries
quickly. so, yes, i do think oil WILL adhere to acrylic. of course, i
am no expert. though i have never had any trouble putting oils over
acrylic (on canvas). when i said "can acrylic paint work instead as a
(paper) primer with oils on top?" my concern was whether or not
acrylics would create a sufficient barrier between support and oils
since oils will eat through an unprimed support.
at any rate thanks for the replies!
gloworm
post. ;)
no, i didn't know how to 'stretch' paper. so thanks very much for
explaining!! some question though:
1. 'gummed tape' i'm not quite sure what that is. perhaps 'Blue Peter'
is a brand name or something? i'll look around.
2. after soaking then stretching onto the board should the paper dry
first or do i gesso while wet?
3.
>as for longevity; acrylic, gesso, same difference. just make sure the
>paper is adequately protected so the oils don't rot it through and you
>should be okay.
so, yes, acrylic paint will create a sufficient barrier?
thanks sooo much again! i know this info is going to be a big help.
Bedges
> 1. 'gummed tape' i'm not quite sure what that is. perhaps 'Blue Peter'
> is a brand name or something? i'll look around.
okay, yes; sorry about that - bit of an obscure reference unless you
live in Britain - Blue Peter is a kid's programme, and sometimes they
feature a 'creative' bit where they make christmas decorations out of
coathangers and the ubiquitous 'sticky-back-plastic'....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/bluepeter/ if you're interested.
gummed tape - hmmm - most artstores will have this as it's a standard
bit of equipment for watercolour painters. it's brown, comes in a
variety of widths (i think - i've seen two types so far) - basically
like packing tape - ask at the artstore - they'll know exactly what
you're on about.
gesso-ing while wet - what you're trying to do is avoid buckling
paper, so you need to make sure that the surface is evenly coated.
after soaking the paper and taping it down, some areas of the paper
may be more soaked than others - that's just due to the properties of
paper generally. best to leave it to dry completely, then you know
that the first layer of watery gesso will be even.
acrylics will offer a sound surface for oils (in my experience) - but
as you said, the layer has to be thick enough to stop the oil seeping
through. only experimentation will teach you how much is enough.
stretch a couple of smaller bits of paper on the same board, prime one
with a couple of coats of acrylic, the other with gesso, do the oil
thing, let it dry, cut the paper off and hold them both up to the
light. if you see oil coming through, you'll know to add another coat
of primer next time.
glad to be of help; good luck with your projects.
gloworm
and since i'm stretching over scrap plywood (not an expensive drawing
board/table), i've resorted to using a stapler instead of the gummed
tape ... for now anyway. staples seem work quite well, actually. and
the thinner coats of gesso has made a world of difference. i'm so
excited!! ;) really can't thank you enough, Bedges! you've been a
huge help! best regards