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Contemporary artist searching a gallery

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setai

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Jun 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/23/98

you might check out this gallery.
http://www.soulflare.com/

tracy aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

1041-614 wrote in message <6mm3sp$nlu$1...@news.online.de>...
>Digital Pictures - Fotopainting - Painting
>
>http://www.drive-team.de/philipp-geist
>
>
>
>

iron...@my-dejanews.com

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Jun 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/24/98

In article <6mpidj$o...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,

"setai" <se...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> you might check out this gallery.
> http://www.soulflare.com/
>

its the most beautiful gallery I've ever seen.....

i_L//exHRg

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jun 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/24/98

Oh man... agreed.... wanna apply to dark or hrg? Please? (or both!) :)

In article <6mqeim$nlj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

setai

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Jun 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/24/98

atom...@theglobe.com wrote in message <6mrbik$pa1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>Oh man... agreed.... wanna apply to dark or hrg? Please? (or both!) :)
>

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jun 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/25/98

In article <6ms8hl$n...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>,

artgroups... thats what this newsgroup is for remember?

setai

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Jun 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/25/98

>> atom...@theglobe.com wrote in message
<6mrbik$pa1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> >Oh man... agreed.... wanna apply to dark or hrg? Please? (or both!) :)
>> >
>> ?
>>
>> t aubuchon
>> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
>>
>>
>
>artgroups... thats what this newsgroup is for remember?

I was just attempting to decode your previous post:

"wanna apply to dark or hrg? Please? (or both!)"

first: I assumed that "dark" and "hrg" were some sort of art groups or art
websites- but without links/ e-mail/ etc. the nature of said groups are not
apparent to me (subsequent searches for "dark" and "hrg" have revealed
nothing).

second: the interrogative "wanna apply to dark or hrg?..." at first appears
to be some kind of offer to submit artwork to these supposed groups- however
with the addition of "...Please? (or both!)" the original conclusion is not
as clear- so,

third: are you in essence requesting:

A: that I and/or the original poster (P. Geist) submit artworks to
"dark" and "hrg" (here: "both" refers to both me and the original poster)

B: that YOU wish to submit artworks to either/or said groups (hence:
"please?") (here: "both" would refer to both dark and hrg).

perhaps my use of a simple "?" was inadequate in attempting to find an
answer to these questions. For that, I apologize.

t aubuchon

http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

wu

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Jun 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/26/98

I did'nt see anything mind blowing or mind blowing. The werk is nice
but really more of the same H.R.Giger/photo painting, cut&paste stuff is
what I see. Perhaps you guys are seeing sometin I'm not?
laterz
fanboy

>>> atom...@theglobe.com wrote in message

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jun 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/27/98

> I was just attempting to decode your previous post:
>

> "wanna apply to dark or hrg? Please? (or both!)"

Sorry, i have a thing for short cryptic posts and assume everyone else knows
whats going on...

>
> first: I assumed that "dark" and "hrg" were some sort of art groups or art
> websites- but without links/ e-mail/ etc. the nature of said groups are not
> apparent to me (subsequent searches for "dark" and "hrg" have revealed
> nothing).
>

try members.tripod.com/~hrgforce and www.darkillustrated.org (I think the
server is still down for the latter) you might have checked or
artpacks.acid.org and search for the two, you would have turned up artpacks
by both groups.

> second: the interrogative "wanna apply to dark or hrg?..." at first appears
> to be some kind of offer to submit artwork to these supposed groups- however
> with the addition of "...Please? (or both!)" the original conclusion is not
> as clear- so,

again cryptic posting... Its more of a request to apply to one or the other
for membership.. Im in both (yeah, yeah, i know, dualing is bad...).

>
> third: are you in essence requesting:
>
> A: that I and/or the original poster (P. Geist) submit artworks to
> "dark" and "hrg" (here: "both" refers to both me and the original poster)
>
> B: that YOU wish to submit artworks to either/or said groups (hence:
> "please?") (here: "both" would refer to both dark and hrg).
>

Sorta A. Except i hadnt read P Geists webpage to carefully, and i thought it
was all his work... I liked what i saw in that gallery..

> perhaps my use of a simple "?" was inadequate in attempting to find an
> answer to these questions. For that, I apologize.

no problem. Sorry for my ambiguity.
>
> t aubuchon
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

your from the bay area too?
>
>

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----

http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

setai

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Jun 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/27/98

atom...@theglobe.com wrote in message <6n2vlq$tfu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>Sorry, i have a thing for short cryptic posts and assume everyone else
knows
>whats going on...

i wish to thank you for your explaination, i must admit, being extremely new
to the analog/digital crossover, there are numerous beings and organizations
that are rather cryptic. at times i find myself deciphering a new language
w/out the primer.

>try members.tripod.com/~hrgforce and www.darkillustrated.org (I think the
>server is still down for the latter) you might have checked or
>artpacks.acid.org and search for the two, you would have turned up artpacks
>by both groups.

my attemps to find hrg, were moot, and as you said dark is unavailable. i
was reluctant to download an artpack, not quite understanding the use or
complete content of one. i found many of these packs on sites as acid and
ice, but no comprehensive definition of what they contained and i tend to
only take into my domain that which i have atleast a modicom of control
over.

i did finally, download a hrg artpack. i was pleasantly suprised that it
contained some of your artwork which is exquisite. i found it intellegent
and sensitive, you have a wonderful grasp of line and composition. it is
both painfully delicate and intimate and bold at once. the digital nature
of the work was in complete harmony w/ the color and texture of the piece
and the grapic content complimented and did not overwhelm the work(which i
find it often does).

i would be extremely intersted in seeing more of your work, and finding out
you opinion on this new art medium.

>your from the bay area too?

i am currently in the process of relocation to the bay area.

i must apologize for my long rambling post, it seems we all have our
eccentricities.

t aubuchon
> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

setai

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Jun 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/27/98

wu wrote in message <6mvh0s$4tt$2...@supernews.com>...

>I did'nt see anything mind blowing or mind blowing. The werk is nice
>but really more of the same H.R.Giger/photo painting, cut&paste stuff is
>what I see. Perhaps you guys are seeing sometin I'm not?
> laterz
> fanboy

an art critic, ah....

let us see, though the intended of your such creative use of the language(I
didn't see anything mind blowing or mind blowing) is rather convoluted, that
is not my object of criticism. it is the derogatory nature you place
collage work "cut&paste stuff " and H.R. Giger.

first, "cut and paste stuff". where as, a particular use of collage might
not be technically or artistically up to par, the medium of cut ups is
highly regarded and powerful technique. it has established it self in two
dimensional art, sculpture, literature, music, film and digital work.
collage is evolved beyond a tool for a specific form of art, but is a medium
unto itself. as beings, we are collages... pieces of art made up of scraps
of the images, words and experiences that we choose to allow to go through
our filters, cut and paste stuff. i find it rather presumptuous to bash a
comprehensive art form and a platonic parallel for human existence.

second, on a more personal note, i find your quick dismissal of hr giger to
be either(kindly put) naive or simply the eternal bleat of elitist sheep( if
that were true you would have no place on this new group being that digital
art is even lower on the art rung than hr giger.)

if you wish to have an intelligent debate on either subject, i am more that
up to the challenge, however blind swipes at serious and important subjects
is nothing but a frighten child's attempt to remove objects that they do not
understand.

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

G Spaceman

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Jun 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/27/98

setai wrote in message <6n3ljc$p...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...

>
>wu wrote in message <6mvh0s$4tt$2...@supernews.com>...
>>I did'nt see anything mind blowing or mind blowing. The werk is nice
>>but really more of the same H.R.Giger/photo painting, cut&paste stuff is
>>what I see. Perhaps you guys are seeing sometin I'm not?
>> laterz
>> fanboy
>
>an art critic, ah....
>
>let us see, though the intended of your such creative use of the language(I
>didn't see anything mind blowing or mind blowing) is rather convoluted,
that
>is not my object of criticism. it is the derogatory nature you place
>collage work "cut&paste stuff " and H.R. Giger.
>

HR Giger is HR Giger. He created a relatively original style using
photographs and airbrushing. People who rip him off are, however,
completely unoriginal. You see, semi-abstract Giger-esque images are *easy*
to create. That is, the technique is easy to follow and you can, digitally,
recreate something that resembles a Giger image without ever having to
really worry about some important artistic elements
(colour/composition/focal point). This is mainly because the act of copying
precludes the notion of creativity. Unfortunately I saw nothing on your
site resembling Giger other than the Giger picture at the start of the
gallery.

That said, anyone who imagines a flowering 'school-of-Giger' art-style
should probably think about taking some art courses and expanding their
mind.

>first, "cut and paste stuff". where as, a particular use of collage might
>not be technically or artistically up to par, the medium of cut ups is
>highly regarded and powerful technique. it has established it self in two
>dimensional art, sculpture, literature, music, film and digital work.
>collage is evolved beyond a tool for a specific form of art, but is a
medium
>unto itself. as beings, we are collages... pieces of art made up of scraps
>of the images, words and experiences that we choose to allow to go through
>our filters, cut and paste stuff. i find it rather presumptuous to bash a
>comprehensive art form and a platonic parallel for human existence.
>

Good lord. That has to be one of the most blindly orchestrated collections
of nonsense I've seen. "Platonic parallel for human existance"? Who do you
think you are, the messiah? Yes yes yes ... send out a message in your
artwork, but please don't assume that your opinion has anything to do with
my life on earth. Personally I don't see any kind of 'message' portrayed in
most of that art, other than that you guys are learning how to composite
layers in Photoshop.
And you know, filters are there because they make things easy ... easy
to create shit, but also easier to create something cool. The knife cuts
both ways.
Next time you shove a orange/yellow/red plasma background behind some
kind of pencil-work, instead of marvelling over the message, concentrate on
the fact that you are leading the eye directly away from your focal point by
creating such a strong line off the page. Yes, you can use cropped artwork
for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.
Furthermore, the texturizer is a funky little filter, isn't it? I use
it sometimes myself ... for textures. I do not see the texturizer as an end
in itself, but a means to an end ... and your representation of God (the
overly saturated green, purple, and black dollop with fangs) shows something
here: if something looks like nothing before the texturizer, it's gonna look
like nothing afterwards as well. Sorry. I just don't see the
representation as meaning anything more than what it appears to be.
Colour choice is an important aspect of collage, don't you think? Cloud
difference filters are the kind of thing that, when I see them, really hurt
my aesthetic senses. I don't think I even need to bother going into the
theory of complemtary colours ... I can see the whole concept means nothing
to your interpretation of human existance.

>second, on a more personal note, i find your quick dismissal of hr giger to
>be either(kindly put) naive or simply the eternal bleat of elitist

heep( if
>that were true you would have no place on this new group being that digital
>art is even lower on the art rung than hr giger.)
>

As I said. Giger is Giger. Are you Giger? No. Am I? No. Just because
he is insanely popular amongst people who wear black and read Neuromancer
and refer to milk as Moloko doesn't mean he deserves a nativity scene in my
basement. Thank you. And your assumption of the relative "placement" of
digital are is excruciatingly ignorant. It isn't the brush, (be it hairs
from a horses bum or a couple pixels on a screen) but the artist that
matters.

>if you wish to have an intelligent debate on either subject, i am more that
>up to the challenge, however blind swipes at serious and important subjects
>is nothing but a frighten child's attempt to remove objects that they do
not
>understand.
>

Oh yeah, I referred to all those images as "yours" because you are
representing your group. I spared going into each on in detail because,
well, there isn't much point is there? Before you run off and proclaim your
royal artistic mightyness to the world, bashing other people for their
offhanded approach to your art, consider this: do you really want to know,
in detail, what they think?

>t aubuchon
>http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
>
>
>

G.Spaceman (aka the Aphid of Twix)

setai

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Jun 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/27/98

i see that someone decided at least to attempt to begin a serious argument,
however his unbelievably poor/misguided excuse for basic logic and grasp of
grade school concepts leads me to believe that he rants out of pent up
frustration rather than any true insight.

G Spaceman wrote in message <6n3tls$hsu$1...@supernews.com>...

>
>setai wrote in message <6n3ljc$p...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...

>>an art critic, ah....
>>
>>let us see, though the intended of your such creative use of the
language(I
>>didn't see anything mind blowing or mind blowing) is rather convoluted,
>that
>>is not my object of criticism. it is the derogatory nature you place
>>collage work "cut&paste stuff " and H.R. Giger
>>

the basic concept that the insult of the medium(collage) is where i found
objection seems to elude you. considering the criticism was very possibly
not even directed toward my art, it makes this foolish digression on hr
giger vs art work (not mine) on my website almost pyschotic aggression.

>HR Giger is HR Giger. He created a relatively original style using
>photographs and airbrushing. People who rip him off are, however,
>completely unoriginal. You see, semi-abstract Giger-esque images are
*easy*
>to create. That is, the technique is easy to follow and you can,
digitally,
>recreate something that resembles a Giger image without ever having to
>really worry about some important artistic elements
>(colour/composition/focal point). This is mainly because the act of
copying
>precludes the notion of creativity. Unfortunately I saw nothing on your
>site resembling Giger other than the Giger picture at the start of the
>gallery.

there is not much that can be said when someone so grossly misinterpretes an
idea.... i/nor anyone on this thread ever compared their/or anyone elses
artwork to giger's execpt the person who i tried to set straight, even
though that was a small point. the only point that pertained to hr giger,
was i personally enjoy his work and did not like the quick dismissal of it.

>That said, anyone who imagines a flowering 'school-of-Giger' art-style
>should probably think about taking some art courses and expanding their
>mind.

you are the only person who mentions anything about a 'school-of-giger'. i
might also add, not only have i taken some art courses, i graduated from art
school.

>>first, "cut and paste stuff". where as, a particular use of collage might
>>not be technically or artistically up to par, the medium of cut ups is
>>highly regarded and powerful technique. it has established it self in two
>>dimensional art, sculpture, literature, music, film and digital work.
>>collage is evolved beyond a tool for a specific form of art, but is a
>medium
>>unto itself. as beings, we are collages... pieces of art made up of
scraps
>>of the images, words and experiences that we choose to allow to go through
>>our filters, cut and paste stuff. i find it rather presumptuous to bash a
>>comprehensive art form and a platonic parallel for human existence.
>>
>
>Good lord. That has to be one of the most blindly orchestrated collections
>of nonsense I've seen. "Platonic parallel for human existance"? Who do
you
>think you are, the messiah?

speaking of a need for schooling, you obviously missed out on an elementary
human/ artistic philosophy that has been debated for oh, the last century or
so. not wanting to overwhelm you with too many lofty ideas, but plato(hence
platonic) is a philospher, who happens to have theories relavant to artistic
expression and the concept of art itself. unlike yourself, i did not sleep
though my education and what you seem to percieve as a messiah complex is
simply a person exploring concepts which are well documented. if this is
all it takes to make a messiah, i personally know a few hundred people that
are in the wrong profession.

>Yes yes yes ... send out a message in your
>artwork, but please don't assume that your opinion has anything to do with
>my life on earth.

i know that this my be hard to grasp, i will make this as simple as possible

1. the post had nothing to do with my or anyone elses art work

2. my opinoin was about an art form, not artist or their work

3. though these are my opinions, they come from well established schools of
thought, and from these nifty things called books

4. it unfortunately seems to be true that the ideas of art and expression do
not have anything to do with your life on earth

> Personally I don't see any kind of 'message' portrayed in
>most of that art, other than that you guys are learning how to composite
>layers in Photoshop.

> And you know, filters are there because they make things easy ... easy
>to create shit, but also easier to create something cool. The knife cuts
>both ways.

you seem to be aware that there are filters, however in my art work i rarely
use them.

> Next time you shove a orange/yellow/red plasma background behind some
>kind of pencil-work, instead of marvelling over the message, concentrate on
>the fact that you are leading the eye directly away from your focal point
by
>creating such a strong line off the page.

here you go with this message rant again, if you can't grasp basic philosphy
i will not even go into my or anybody elses message. if you would like, i
could list multiple artists that lead the eye away from the focal point or
have many focal points. as will become an often used term, this is not my
artwork that you are critisizing, esteban cruz, is a sculptor(a very good
one i might add) who occasionally enhances his paintings and line drawings
w/ photoshop.

>Yes, you can use cropped artwork
>for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.

i am not sure what convoluted excuse for logic led you to believe that any
of my work has anything to with "the good of human existance", perhaps you
are projecting you own over inflated ego onto others. i will not even begin
to touch your comment on my process of thought or art, without a fundamental
background in even platonic thought it would be pointless.

> Furthermore, the texturizer is a funky little filter, isn't it? I use
>it sometimes myself ... for textures. I do not see the texturizer as an
end
>in itself, but a means to an end ... and your representation of God (the
>overly saturated green, purple, and black dollop with fangs) shows
something
>here: if something looks like nothing before the texturizer, it's gonna
look
>like nothing afterwards as well. Sorry. I just don't see the
>representation as meaning anything more than what it appears to be.

THIS IS NOT MY ART WORK ! i can not and will not defend his image of God,
why would i anyway. it takes a rather small man to rip apart a person's work
who will not even have a chance to respond. you could try to bash MY art,
instead of an innocent bystander, but that wouldn't be your style, would it.

> Colour choice is an important aspect of collage, don't you think?

you did not mention which artist or which art work you were speaking of, so
choice of color would be hard to
discuss. i do understand that their are multiple artists all on the same
website and perhaps that could confuse the simplest of minds.

> Cloud
>difference filters are the kind of thing that, when I see them, really hurt
>my aesthetic senses. I don't think I even need to bother going into the
>theory of complemtary colours ... I can see the whole concept means nothing
>to your interpretation of human existance.

once again, not mine( none of my work contains difference clouds)... can you
not manipulate a basic webpage?

>>second, on a more personal note, i find your quick dismissal of hr giger
to
>>be either(kindly put) naive or simply the eternal bleat of elitist

>sheep( if

>>that were true you would have no place on this new group being that
digital
>>art is even lower on the art rung than hr giger.)
>>
>
>As I said. Giger is Giger. Are you Giger? No. Am I? No. Just because
>he is insanely popular amongst people who wear black and read Neuromancer
>and refer to milk as Moloko doesn't mean he deserves a nativity scene in my
>basement. Thank you.

All i said was that i admire giger, i will let my statement stand. his work
stands for itself, yes his work is popular, so what. picasso's work is
popular too.... the following of an artist does not enhance or deminish the
quailty of his work.

> And your assumption of the relative "placement" of
>digital are is excruciatingly ignorant. It isn't the brush, (be it hairs
>from a horses bum or a couple pixels on a screen) but the artist that
>matters.

i come from a traditional art background, galleries, shows, collectors.... i
believe my evalutation of thier placement to be accurate (though I feel
these attitudes are completely wrong). if inarticulate twits like you are
to be the representitives of the digital medium, perhaps it will remain that
way.

>Oh yeah, I referred to all those images as "yours" because you are
>representing your group.

i never represented any of my art work or any "group", the orginal thread
was about a gallery called soulflare, which i have nothing to do with, nor
once have i even mentioned my own art work. this post was about the meduim
of collage. have you never had a disscussion on art theory?

> I spared going into each on in detail because,
>well, there isn't much point is there? Before you run off and proclaim
your
>royal artistic mightyness to the world, bashing other people for their
>offhanded approach to your art, consider this: do you really want to know,
>in detail, what they think?

first, you nor anyone else ever mentioned my art work, only the work of a
person who couldn't speak for himself.

second, you completely misunderstood the point, and randomly made your own
point.

third, i never proclaimed anything about my or anyone else's art, ART THEORY
, i was discussing art theory!

fourth, perhaps it was a slightly harsh, but not about an "offhanded
approach" to my art work.(and a i'm reasonably certain he wasn't even
discussing my art but one of the art groups, or soulflare), but to the
medium of collage.
collage or cut-up doesn't even exclusively belong to visual art, but to many
forms of expression.

>>t aubuchon
>>http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>G.Spaceman (aka the Aphid of Twix)
>

i would like to note that you didn't even have the courage to place a link
or e-mail so that anybody could critique your art. i have to admit i am not
surprised, people like you never do.

i find you an embarrassment to artists and to any person that can put pen to
paper.

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

In article <6n3ljc$p...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>,

"setai" <se...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>
> wu wrote in message <6mvh0s$4tt$2...@supernews.com>...
> >I did'nt see anything mind blowing or mind blowing. The werk is nice
> >but really more of the same H.R.Giger/photo painting, cut&paste stuff is
> >what I see. Perhaps you guys are seeing sometin I'm not?
> > laterz
> > fanboy

1) a good percentage of the stuff i see in artpacks (especially iCE) is
giger-esque
2) dont get me started on photomanips, thats what i do
3) perhaps we are thinking something your not... that we dont wanna see more
chick pix?

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

<clip> First, before you trash me as you did aphid, please keep this in mind.
1) I have NO artistic training. Never been to artschool, hell, havent even
gotten to college yet. Ive taken required art classes and a photography class
so far (got an A :)). 2) Even because of this, do not dismiss my words.
Because some of your "philosophy" may elude me, doesnt mean i dont have valid
points about what is pleasing to the eye, and what is not. I think its
something genetic, actually. An eye for beauty can be improved, but not
tought... I come from a family that surrounded me with art from an early
age... My father did glass blowing, as did my mother. She also did textile
design. My grandmother is an enamlelist who pioneered techniques never before
used, won a gold medal from the american craft council a few years ago. Since
your in the bay area, perhaps you should stop at Susin cummins gallery in
Mill Valley, or the craft and folk art museum in fort mason (san francisco)
and look a June Schwarcz's work... Thats my grammy :) So basically my life
has been surrounded by art, and i think it rubbed off

Agreed. I believe trashing photomanips and collages akin to how painters
trashed on photography when it was first invented, saying it was "too easy"
and it wasnt art. I know that its not true, and i hope you do too, aphid. Try
it sometime, its not as easy as it looks. instead of drawing chick pix, or
rendering robots, which are hard, try a little time with composition on a 2d
surface... lemme tell ya, it can be a bitch.

> >>unto itself. as beings, we are collages... pieces of art made up of
> scraps
> >>of the images, words and experiences that we choose to allow to go through
> >>our filters, cut and paste stuff. i find it rather presumptuous to bash a
> >>comprehensive art form and a platonic parallel for human existence.
> >>

ermm... ok... Well, yeah, were made up of a mixture of what we encounter, but
i dont think thats quite relivant when you go to make an image... i try to
deliver a message.. i may fail at that, but i tried... I dont try to sum up
life. But your describing a medium, and yes, its a powerfull way to speak...
Each part of the collage could conceivibly convey something different to each
individual, perhaps a memory passed. Together it could mean something
entirely different. Thats why i like it. Its a very powerfull medium, which
is why i do it.

> >
> >Good lord. That has to be one of the most blindly orchestrated collections
> >of nonsense I've seen. "Platonic parallel for human existance"? Who do
> you
> >think you are, the messiah?
>
> speaking of a need for schooling, you obviously missed out on an elementary
> human/ artistic philosophy that has been debated for oh, the last century or
> so. not wanting to overwhelm you with too many lofty ideas, but plato(hence
> platonic) is a philospher, who happens to have theories relavant to artistic
> expression and the concept of art itself. unlike yourself, i did not sleep
> though my education and what you seem to percieve as a messiah complex is
> simply a person exploring concepts which are well documented. if this is
> all it takes to make a messiah, i personally know a few hundred people that
> are in the wrong profession.
>

Im sure plato's ideas are very good ones, but i've always been a fan of having
my own to call on, instead of someone elses.

> >Yes yes yes ... send out a message in your
> >artwork, but please don't assume that your opinion has anything to do with
> >my life on earth.
>
> i know that this my be hard to grasp, i will make this as simple as possible
>
> 1. the post had nothing to do with my or anyone elses art work

I dont think he had gotten to critiquing your work yet... He was saying a
generall message. I know i started this with a misunderstanding of the
soulflare page... I assumed it was all your work, my mistake... apologies.

>
> 2. my opinoin was about an art form, not artist or their work

see above

>
> 3. though these are my opinions, they come from well established schools of
> thought, and from these nifty things called books

oh books... whats that? <jk> You must remember that the people in
alt.art.hirez are young. I believe cat bones or starlord are the oldest, mid
30's, but the average age is probably late teens, early twenties. This is a
"hacker" community of sorts. The origin of the scene started with BBS's and
ANSI art, evolving to what it is now... Perhaps you posted to everything in
alt.art?

> 4. it unfortunately seems to be true that the ideas of art and expression do
> not have anything to do with your life on earth
>

Bummer :)

> > Personally I don't see any kind of 'message' portrayed in
> >most of that art, other than that you guys are learning how to composite
> >layers in Photoshop.

Perhaps thats because your not looking hard enough... Ill take the last ACiD
pack, for example, because you've probably seen it... if not, go look.
madASS's pics dont really have a message, but the second one is working on
it.. the first one is just a cartoon. blup's pic is an add, no clarification
needed. Catbones's pic does have a message, perhaps that sex causees
progression in technology (porn was what made the web and vcr's popular,
after all). DI's pic is just wierd, imho... and f7's pic is a promo for
acid. skipping along (because this could take ages), ffathom's pic has a good
message, (and its well drawn too :)). Mine and lion-gv's pic has a message
of fears, and not being able to sleep. There is a woman spinning into the
center from the left, worring about love, perhaps. The bugs at the bottom are
my personal phobia. The center is the mind, and the turmoil... The shit that
keeps me awake at night :). Remissions pic is a statement about turn of the
century politics (thats marx in the middle, if im not mistaken). Tomppa1's
peices are for practice really, based on other ideas, but well done, and good
representations and interpritations. The knaves pics are about what he thinks
the future will be like, and xedgex's first pic is an add, but his second is
about working together... see? messages. Actually, you might notice that most
photomanips and collages have more messages then freehands, because they cant
survive on freehand skills alone.

>
> > And you know, filters are there because they make things easy ... easy
> >to create shit, but also easier to create something cool. The knife cuts
> >both ways.

depends if you can hide the blatant use of the filter. It wont make the
picture, you have to do something else to make it good. I used to fall in
that trap all the time.

>
> you seem to be aware that there are filters, however in my art work i rarely
> use them.
>

agreed. all my recent photomanips have NO filters.

Im not sure which pic your talking of, but in photography thats a common
trick. Just dont go straight to a corner.

>
> here you go with this message rant again, if you can't grasp basic philosphy
> i will not even go into my or anybody elses message. if you would like, i
> could list multiple artists that lead the eye away from the focal point or
> have many focal points. as will become an often used term, this is not my
> artwork that you are critisizing, esteban cruz, is a sculptor(a very good
> one i might add) who occasionally enhances his paintings and line drawings
> w/ photoshop.

i'd have to see his work... do you have a url?

>
> >Yes, you can use cropped artwork
> >for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.
>
> i am not sure what convoluted excuse for logic led you to believe that any
> of my work has anything to with "the good of human existance", perhaps you
> are projecting you own over inflated ego onto others. i will not even begin
> to touch your comment on my process of thought or art, without a fundamental
> background in even platonic thought it would be pointless.
>

Umm, i think thats sarcasm. but aphid, for the record, care to explain?

> > Furthermore, the texturizer is a funky little filter, isn't it? I use
> >it sometimes myself ... for textures. I do not see the texturizer as an
> end
> >in itself, but a means to an end ... and your representation of God (the
> >overly saturated green, purple, and black dollop with fangs) shows
> something
> >here: if something looks like nothing before the texturizer, it's gonna
> look
> >like nothing afterwards as well. Sorry. I just don't see the
> >representation as meaning anything more than what it appears to be.
>
> THIS IS NOT MY ART WORK ! i can not and will not defend his image of God,
> why would i anyway. it takes a rather small man to rip apart a person's work
> who will not even have a chance to respond. you could try to bash MY art,
> instead of an innocent bystander, but that wouldn't be your style, would it.
>
> > Colour choice is an important aspect of collage, don't you think?
>
> you did not mention which artist or which art work you were speaking of, so
> choice of color would be hard to
> discuss. i do understand that their are multiple artists all on the same
> website and perhaps that could confuse the simplest of minds.

well, im looking at your site, tracy, right now... the one on your main page
doesnt do anything that couldnt be done with paper, nothing that takes
advantage of what could be done with photoshop and computers. Perhaps im
missing something. The two sculptures of the women are good technically, but
they are something you should have kept as practice for what the body looks
like. You might try 3d modelling.... the one of the woman with her head blown
out isnt enough to be shocking, but not subtile enough to have a message. I
think, with the background you were saying she had a life before, but its
lost, and the gore goes to a point where it looks like you put it on for the
shock value. perhaps you didnt, but thats what i see. the other sculptures
are interesting.. the crosses i like cause they show how distorted and fucked
up religion has become of late. venus i dont get tho, but i might if i could
see all of it, not just one side. the human vessel is best if you know the
title.. its a cocoon... i like that... the two bottom collages, esteban and
zeny dont do anything for me... and you seem to be using the same images over
and over... Its to cluttered. I do like the last one tho, slumber... it flows
well together.

>
> > Cloud
> >difference filters are the kind of thing that, when I see them, really hurt
> >my aesthetic senses. I don't think I even need to bother going into the
> >theory of complemtary colours ... I can see the whole concept means nothing
> >to your interpretation of human existance.

agreed. difference clouds suck :)

>
> once again, not mine( none of my work contains difference clouds)... can you
> not manipulate a basic webpage?
>

i dont understand what your saying here... pleas clarify.. and im sure he made
the same mistake as i did mistaking soulflare as your work.

<snip>

> All i said was that i admire giger, i will let my statement stand. his work
> stands for itself, yes his work is popular, so what. picasso's work is
> popular too.... the following of an artist does not enhance or deminish the
> quailty of his work.

i agree with aphid here... his work (geiger [ack cant spell today]) seems
very commercial, and i never really liked it... well done technically, but
when they make computer games with his artwork, you know theres something not
right...

>
> > And your assumption of the relative "placement" of
> >digital are is excruciatingly ignorant. It isn't the brush, (be it hairs
> >from a horses bum or a couple pixels on a screen) but the artist that
> >matters.
>
> i come from a traditional art background, galleries, shows, collectors.... i
> believe my evalutation of thier placement to be accurate (though I feel
> these attitudes are completely wrong). if inarticulate twits like you are
> to be the representitives of the digital medium, perhaps it will remain that
> way.

just my feelings here: the digital medium is very different from the gallery..
its still in turmoil, find its way in the dark.

>
> >Oh yeah, I referred to all those images as "yours" because you are
> >representing your group.

if you'd read before, she didnt under stand the concept of art groups, nor the
scene... so i doubt she was representing a group... a simple misunderstanding,
im sure.

>
> i never represented any of my art work or any "group", the orginal thread
> was about a gallery called soulflare, which i have nothing to do with, nor
> once have i even mentioned my own art work. this post was about the meduim
> of collage. have you never had a disscussion on art theory?
>

then why'd you post it?

>
> >>t aubuchon
> >>http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >G.Spaceman (aka the Aphid of Twix)
> >
> i would like to note that you didn't even have the courage to place a link
> or e-mail so that anybody could critique your art. i have to admit i am not
> surprised, people like you never do.

a little investigation (perhaps the links section on acheron.org, a true
detective never reveals his secrets <grin>) leads us too....
http://www.io.com/~verved for aphid twix's page... A well designed, clean
site, tho imcomplete... He had a good one fully done before... perhaps you
should repost it... And as too not fall into the trap, im at
http://kaoz.org/atom , and my email is atom...@theglobe.com. i didnt post it
at the botom before cuz im lazy and dejanews doesnt let you have sig files
that i know of.

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

In article <6n3imq$o...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>,

"setai" <se...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>
> atom...@theglobe.com wrote in message <6n2vlq$tfu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
> >Sorry, i have a thing for short cryptic posts and assume everyone else
> knows
> >whats going on...
>
> i wish to thank you for your explaination, i must admit, being extremely new
> to the analog/digital crossover, there are numerous beings and organizations
> that are rather cryptic. at times i find myself deciphering a new language
> w/out the primer.

a good primer would be to check out www.acheron.org, and just look around...
it describes the art scene in full, as far as i can tell.. you might wanna
check out the article "what the hell is the scene" or whatever its called..
Also, rw's page at www.shocking.com/~rw and click on the section that
describes the scene... shouldnt be to hard to find.

>
> >try members.tripod.com/~hrgforce and www.darkillustrated.org (I think the
> >server is still down for the latter) you might have checked or
> >artpacks.acid.org and search for the two, you would have turned up artpacks
> >by both groups.
> my attemps to find hrg, were moot, and as you said dark is unavailable. i
> was reluctant to download an artpack, not quite understanding the use or
> complete content of one.

they are a file that contain the works of the members of the group that were
created in the past month or too in ansi, rip, vga, and ascii mediums.

>i found many of these packs on sites as acid and
> ice, but no comprehensive definition of what they contained and i tend to
> only take into my domain that which i have atleast a modicom of control
> over.

theres always a first time... you always should try something you've never
done before, you might be pleasantly surprised...

> i did finally, download a hrg artpack. i was pleasantly suprised that it
> contained some of your artwork which is exquisite. i found it intellegent
> and sensitive, you have a wonderful grasp of line and composition. it is
> both painfully delicate and intimate and bold at once. the digital nature
> of the work was in complete harmony w/ the color and texture of the piece
> and the grapic content complimented and did not overwhelm the work(which i
> find it often does).

you must've downloaded hrg17...

thats the nicest thing anyones ever said to me... <snif> thank you... im
touched... really.. you seem to be a thoughtfull intelligent person who judges
art on the pictures alone, not the technique or the medium. props to that :)

>
> i would be extremely intersted in seeing more of your work, and finding out
> you opinion on this new art medium.
>

http://kaoz.org/atom ... and my opinion was summed up by grim of acid very
well... let me get what he said...

"As I´m still fairly new to The Scene with only slightly more than a year in
ACiD, I still don´t have a good grasp of what it´s all about, (does
anyone?). The group concept is interesting although it´s possibilities are
not as explored as they could be. Almost all groups are alike, not
considering quality and persistancy... It would be interesting to see a
group with members that have the same basic ideas of visual arts, like a
group consisting of manga artists only, so that they can develop their ideas
and mutate together into something really different. I guess I´m looking for
something that happened in the world of arts between 1880-1960 something,
with all the 'isms' where artists really took advantage of what their
colleges had discovered. I also feel that there is way to few visual
experiments done in The Scene. There are a few who struggle though, like
Tomppa1, for instance. Most of the stuff I see is pretty ordinary, though.
Don´t misunderstand me, I have full respect for the technical skills of all
the artists in The Scene, it´s just that most of the art in The Scene doesn´t
really make me feel anything. I do not wish to hurt anyones feelings and if
I do, I´m sorry... The Scene is perhaps a bit too focused on technical
skills and how things are done with ansi/ascii-boys and vga-artists
disrespecting one another and vga-artists debating on whether if it´s ok to
use filters and plugins or not...My opinion is that if you succeed in making
a pic that moves people in some way, then it´s also good quality art. It
doesn´t matter how you made it as long as it´s your own idea and you´re the
one who visualized it. Art is basically, in my opinion, a communicative act,
not a performance act...By this, I mean that your feelings or ideas have to
be shared with more people than yourself...It doesn´t necessarily mean that
you have failed if people get other feelings or ideas than the ones you had,
though. There is a surprising amount of conservatism in what really ought to
be the avant-garde of art; The Scene, and I believe that this stops The
Scene from developing into something that could really have an impact on the
world of arts. "

you might want to goto www.artcore.com, a very good gallery... you might be
interested.

> >your from the bay area too?
>
> i am currently in the process of relocation to the bay area.

email me if you want directions to the galleries i mentioned in my other post,
susan cummins and the craft and folk are museum. atom...@theglobe.com. I live
in marin (yuppie-ville), if that means anything to you yet.

> i must apologize for my long rambling post, it seems we all have our
> eccentricities.

np. i pick my nose... wheeeeee (just kiddin)

> t aubuchon
> > http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

CatBones

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

setai wrote:

> an art critic, ah....

me too, setai.

> let us see, though the intended of your such creative use of the language(I
> didn't see anything mind blowing or mind blowing) is rather convoluted, that
> is not my object of criticism. it is the derogatory nature you place

> collage work "cut&paste stuff " and H.R. Giger.

it's down and dirty photomanipulation and it's half-assed.
how's that?

> our filters, cut and paste stuff. i find it rather presumptuous to bash a
> comprehensive art form and a platonic parallel for human existence.

i don't think anyone knocked the theme of the work, specifically your
expression of experience, it's validity as a form of 'art' (since the
common man has such a need to be able to claim that he expresses himself
artistically, however blind he is to his own ability to do so in a
learned and respectable manner).. really what i saw in the prior post,
and what i agree with, is that the work and the techniques are
hodge-podge EFFECTS. Anyone's an artist with photomanip, right? hiREZ
art to most of us here entails not only expressing yourself in a
video-graphics array, but doing it in a fashion that makes the viewer
want to stick around for a minute more. Hahahaha.

> second, on a more personal note, i find your quick dismissal of hr giger to
> be either(kindly put) naive or simply the eternal bleat of elitist sheep( if
> that were true you would have no place on this new group being that digital
> art is even lower on the art rung than hr giger.)

i saw his point as not slamming giger, but those who think they belong
to the church of giger. there's so much gigerseque bullshit in the
pulp-graphics"ART" that it's sickening anymore. people need to work on
their own goddamn styles.

> if you wish to have an intelligent debate on either subject, i am more that
> up to the challenge, however blind swipes at serious and important subjects
> is nothing but a frighten child's attempt to remove objects that they do not
> understand.

ok bud, i'm a college educated, 14 year professional artist, not only
commercial but fine art.. you wanna play ball?

tone down your act and you won't get ripped to hell. i just don't like
your cocky attitude.

other than that, keep practicing, you'll end up one day with a
composition that works.

regards,

CatBones/ACiD
--
,sS"$$$ ,sS"$$$ ,sS"$$$ ,sS ,sS"$$$ $$$"Ss. $$$"Ss. ,sS"$$$
$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$"Ss. $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ """
$$$ $$$"$$$ """ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$"""' `"""Ss.
$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$
`S$g$S' $$$ $$$ $$$ `S$g$S' `S$g$S' $$$ $$$ `S$g$S' `S$g$S'

proudly coordinating the art of tomorrow
ACiD hiREZ
...............................................................
.. http://www.catbones.com/ ..
.. http://www.acid.org/ ..
...............................................................

g_spa...@my-dejanews.com

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

In article <6n4g11$7...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,

"setai" <se...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> i see that someone decided at least to attempt to begin a serious argument,
> however his unbelievably poor/misguided excuse for basic logic and grasp of
> grade school concepts leads me to believe that he rants out of pent up
> frustration rather than any true insight.
>

Now that I know you've gone to art school, let me say something else before I
continue: 1) you have no concept of sarcasm or dry humour, and 2) art school
is no substitute for talent (or humility). I see so much utter crap from
people who pass themselves off as artists on an almost daily basis. We get a
lot of resumes and portfolios where I work. We see lots of work resembling
what you guys do (be it good or bad). I generally just get to discuss it
with the people who I work with. And I think the concensus is that being an
artiste and being an artist are two entirely different schools of thought.
You yourself have a lot in common with the existentialists ... especially in
the way you attempt to express yourself (ie. Beauvoir, Sartre, etc). Don't
come at me with references to Plato ... you can make just as much of a point
without having to ... well ... grasp at straws. Maybe you should try your
hand at poetry someday.

> G Spaceman wrote in message <6n3tls$hsu$1...@supernews.com>...
> >
> >setai wrote in message <6n3ljc$p...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> >>
> >>an art critic, ah....
> >>
> >>let us see, though the intended of your such creative use of the
> language(I
> >>didn't see anything mind blowing or mind blowing) is rather convoluted,
> >that
> >>is not my object of criticism. it is the derogatory nature you place
> >>collage work "cut&paste stuff " and H.R. Giger
> >>
> the basic concept that the insult of the medium(collage) is where i found
> objection seems to elude you. considering the criticism was very possibly
> not even directed toward my art, it makes this foolish digression on hr
> giger vs art work (not mine) on my website almost pyschotic aggression.
>

Because there is a big fucking HR. Giger image looming above the links to
your, and your friend's artwork. That's like arguing with the police for
arresting you for streaking through the streets with an AK-47, yelling at the
top of your lungs, by say: "but I was just yelling!". You gotta figure that
assault rifle had something to do with it.

>
> there is not much that can be said when someone so grossly misinterpretes an
> idea.... i/nor anyone on this thread ever compared their/or anyone elses
> artwork to giger's execpt the person who i tried to set straight, even
> though that was a small point. the only point that pertained to hr giger,
> was i personally enjoy his work and did not like the quick dismissal of it.
>

Leave it to me to prod the sore spot, eh?

> >That said, anyone who imagines a flowering 'school-of-Giger' art-style
> >should probably think about taking some art courses and expanding their
> >mind.
>
> you are the only person who mentions anything about a 'school-of-giger'. i
> might also add, not only have i taken some art courses, i graduated from art
> school.
>

Maybe in THIS conversation I'm the only one who mentions it. But when you set
up little background images of his work and place them in front of your
gallery, you gotta figure you're setting some kind of tone to your work. Or
did you not realise that when you put your web site together?

> >>first, "cut and paste stuff". where as, a particular use of collage might
> >>not be technically or artistically up to par, the medium of cut ups is
> >>highly regarded and powerful technique. it has established it self in two
> >>dimensional art, sculpture, literature, music, film and digital work.
> >>collage is evolved beyond a tool for a specific form of art, but is a
> >medium
> >>unto itself. as beings, we are collages... pieces of art made up of
> scraps
> >>of the images, words and experiences that we choose to allow to go through
> >>our filters, cut and paste stuff. i find it rather presumptuous to bash a
> >>comprehensive art form and a platonic parallel for human existence.
> >>
> >
> >Good lord. That has to be one of the most blindly orchestrated collections
> >of nonsense I've seen. "Platonic parallel for human existance"? Who do
> you
> >think you are, the messiah?
>
> speaking of a need for schooling, you obviously missed out on an elementary
> human/ artistic philosophy that has been debated for oh, the last century or
> so. not wanting to overwhelm you with too many lofty ideas, but plato(hence
> platonic) is a philospher, who happens to have theories relavant to artistic
> expression and the concept of art itself. unlike yourself, i did not sleep
> though my education and what you seem to percieve as a messiah complex is
> simply a person exploring concepts which are well documented. if this is
> all it takes to make a messiah, i personally know a few hundred people that
> are in the wrong profession.
>

The last century? I'm afraid it goes back much much further than that.
Look, please don't get into Plato ... or Marx and Engles or Stalin ... or
Freud ... or Beauvoir and Sartre ... or Aristotle ... or anyone else who's
name you think you could drop. I read the Republic, I know all about the
dark cave, and I can see that you really don't know what you're talking
about. Gross misinterpretation is very common when you get into elementary
philosophy, and it takes far more than a couple weeks and a college prof. to
get it through some people's thick skulls that not everything they learn is
relevant to every conversation they have. This discussion is so far removed
from philosophy that even writing this paragraph ... I have to wonder why I'm
getting dragged into it. And my messiah comment has more to do with your
high opinion of yourself than anything else. You'll have a lot harder time
improving on what you do if you don't at least admit your mistakes, or admit
that there is room for progress. Sometimes your message gets clouded when
you don't know how to properly express it ...

Mine did.

> 2. my opinoin was about an art form, not artist or their work
>

Mine was.

> 3. though these are my opinions, they come from well established schools of
> thought, and from these nifty things called books
>

Interpretation is everything, isn't it?

> 4. it unfortunately seems to be true that the ideas of art and expression do
> not have anything to do with your life on earth
>

Tell me then ... should I quit my vocation and go run along the beaches in
Florida with a metal detector and Speedos searching for the American dream? I
bet you'd dig that book ... hehe

> > Personally I don't see any kind of 'message' portrayed in
> >most of that art, other than that you guys are learning how to composite
> >layers in Photoshop.
>
> > And you know, filters are there because they make things easy ... easy
> >to create shit, but also easier to create something cool. The knife cuts
> >both ways.
>
> you seem to be aware that there are filters, however in my art work i rarely
> use them.
>

OK. You did the picture of the girl's face with the pink and green (PINK AND
GREEN!) edging around her. Right? I can't remember the rest. But I think
there were some filters in there. hehe

> > Next time you shove a orange/yellow/red plasma background behind some
> >kind of pencil-work, instead of marvelling over the message, concentrate on
> >the fact that you are leading the eye directly away from your focal point
> by
> >creating such a strong line off the page.
>
> here you go with this message rant again, if you can't grasp basic philosphy
> i will not even go into my or anybody elses message. if you would like, i
> could list multiple artists that lead the eye away from the focal point or
> have many focal points. as will become an often used term, this is not my
> artwork that you are critisizing, esteban cruz, is a sculptor(a very good
> one i might add) who occasionally enhances his paintings and line drawings
> w/ photoshop.
>

I didn't say it WASN'T possible to effectively lead the eye off the page, I
just said in that case ... it didn't work. And if he is a great sculptor,
excellent. I wasn't challenging his ability with sculpting, I was commenting
on his drawings, which are probably not as polished as his other work then.

> >Yes, you can use cropped artwork
> >for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.
>
> i am not sure what convoluted excuse for logic led you to believe that any
> of my work has anything to with "the good of human existance", perhaps you
> are projecting you own over inflated ego onto others. i will not even begin
> to touch your comment on my process of thought or art, without a fundamental
> background in even platonic thought it would be pointless.
>

There you go missing that dry humour of mine again. And please stop with
Plato. Unless you can really back up what you're saying. I will go fetch the
papers I wrote on him and try remember what I was taught at university and we
can discuss the finer points of creationism and how our schools should be set
up, and how to properly fill your vocation til your heart is content. Tell me
then, are you bronze, silver, or gold? hehe

My style. Do I know you from somewhere? Have we met before? Does this
conversation seem to be taking on the form of personal attacks instead of
attacks on someone's artistic experssion? A sore spot again? He has an email
account. Have him reply to me. Please.

> > Colour choice is an important aspect of collage, don't you think?
>
> you did not mention which artist or which art work you were speaking of, so
> choice of color would be hard to
> discuss. i do understand that their are multiple artists all on the same
> website and perhaps that could confuse the simplest of minds.
>

I was referring to all of you. I guess I need to be more clear.

> > Cloud
> >difference filters are the kind of thing that, when I see them, really hurt
> >my aesthetic senses. I don't think I even need to bother going into the
> >theory of complemtary colours ... I can see the whole concept means nothing
> >to your interpretation of human existance.
>
> once again, not mine( none of my work contains difference clouds)... can you
> not manipulate a basic webpage?
>

See? Even more personal. hehe

> >>second, on a more personal note, i find your quick dismissal of hr giger
> to
> >>be either(kindly put) naive or simply the eternal bleat of elitist
> >sheep( if
> >>that were true you would have no place on this new group being that
> digital
> >>art is even lower on the art rung than hr giger.)
> >>
> >
> >As I said. Giger is Giger. Are you Giger? No. Am I? No. Just because
> >he is insanely popular amongst people who wear black and read Neuromancer
> >and refer to milk as Moloko doesn't mean he deserves a nativity scene in my
> >basement. Thank you.
>
> All i said was that i admire giger, i will let my statement stand. his work
> stands for itself, yes his work is popular, so what. picasso's work is
> popular too.... the following of an artist does not enhance or deminish the
> quailty of his work.
>

So so true.

> > And your assumption of the relative "placement" of
> >digital are is excruciatingly ignorant. It isn't the brush, (be it hairs
> >from a horses bum or a couple pixels on a screen) but the artist that
> >matters.
>
> i come from a traditional art background, galleries, shows, collectors.... i
> believe my evalutation of thier placement to be accurate (though I feel
> these attitudes are completely wrong). if inarticulate twits like you are
> to be the representitives of the digital medium, perhaps it will remain that
> way.
>

Inarticulate twits such as myself have this vague notion that a lot of the
stuff I've seen in galleries might not necessarily deserve to be there, in my
opinion. Opinion. Funny thing that.

By the way, the digital medium is rather far-reaching, and has a lot of
support and respect. This is 1998 isn't it? I think you've jumped the train
a couple years too late.

> >Oh yeah, I referred to all those images as "yours" because you are
> >representing your group.
>
> i never represented any of my art work or any "group", the orginal thread
> was about a gallery called soulflare, which i have nothing to do with, nor
> once have i even mentioned my own art work. this post was about the meduim
> of collage. have you never had a disscussion on art theory?
>

Yes. What I was really after was a discussion with the kind of person who
does the artwork on your page. This is the second one I've had. And you
know what? The result was almost identical both times.

I posted that original message knowing that you wouldn't care what I had to
say. I don't think you'll care what anyone has to say unless it is somewhat
in praise of what you do. So I mean, even saying THIS doesn't matter. I am
almost never bluntly negative unless I see the kind of attitude that you
have. I try and encourage ... not discourage. But neither of these thoughts
entered my mind in my original post to you. It is just interesting to see
the reaction one can get.

> > I spared going into each on in detail because,
> >well, there isn't much point is there? Before you run off and proclaim
> your
> >royal artistic mightyness to the world, bashing other people for their
> >offhanded approach to your art, consider this: do you really want to know,
> >in detail, what they think?
>
> first, you nor anyone else ever mentioned my art work, only the work of a
> person who couldn't speak for himself.
>
> second, you completely misunderstood the point, and randomly made your own
> point.
>

I don't know if I'd say random. But if making my point is what I am accused
of ... well then ... hehe ... "let me be guilty".

> third, i never proclaimed anything about my or anyone else's art, ART THEORY
> , i was discussing art theory!
>

Actually you did, but ... that's life.

> fourth, perhaps it was a slightly harsh, but not about an "offhanded
> approach" to my art work.(and a i'm reasonably certain he wasn't even
> discussing my art but one of the art groups, or soulflare), but to the
> medium of collage.
> collage or cut-up doesn't even exclusively belong to visual art, but to many
> forms of expression.
>

Yeah. There are hacks everwhere. (sorry, I had to)

> >>t aubuchon
> >>http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >G.Spaceman (aka the Aphid of Twix)
> >
> i would like to note that you didn't even have the courage to place a link
> or e-mail so that anybody could critique your art. i have to admit i am not
> surprised, people like you never do.
>
> i find you an embarrassment to artists and to any person that can put pen to
> paper.
>

There are some people who have done an excellent job combining collage with
digital art. Check out the work of Rick Berry or Daryl Anderson some time.
They had a site up a few years ago at www.braid.com. It hasn't been updated
for those few years, but it still shows some very mature artwork of that
nature.

Hmmm ... I used to have a web page up but I took it down because I don't have
the time to update it (between work and writing long ranting depositions like
this). If you want to take me that seriously, go ahead. Somehow I think
you'd be far too much of an artiste to assume that shots of my artwork
(whether they're in motion, in a magazine, on web sites or on my personal
page) have any merit. Most of my work goes into video games right now.

> t aubuchon
> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
>
>

G.Spaceman (email me at ver...@io.com if you want)

g_spa...@my-dejanews.com

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

As I said, going to art school doesn't make you an artist, although it does
teach you certain basic elements that could help some people. I don't see it
as necessary for everyone.

>
> Agreed. I believe trashing photomanips and collages akin to how painters
> trashed on photography when it was first invented, saying it was "too easy"
> and it wasnt art. I know that its not true, and i hope you do too, aphid. Try
> it sometime, its not as easy as it looks. instead of drawing chick pix, or
> rendering robots, which are hard, try a little time with composition on a 2d
> surface... lemme tell ya, it can be a bitch.
>

I've done it before ...

I've experimented with many aspects of digital art. I've found that in order
to achieve the levels I want with my artwork, it serves me best to focus on
the areas I enjoy. And I'm not saying I don't still produce absolute shite
most of the time. heh.

> Im sure plato's ideas are very good ones, but i've always been a fan of having
> my own to call on, instead of someone elses.
>

Totally.

> > >Yes yes yes ... send out a message in your
> > >artwork, but please don't assume that your opinion has anything to do with
> > >my life on earth.
> >
> > i know that this my be hard to grasp, i will make this as simple as possible
> >
> > 1. the post had nothing to do with my or anyone elses art work
>
> I dont think he had gotten to critiquing your work yet... He was saying a
> generall message. I know i started this with a misunderstanding of the
> soulflare page... I assumed it was all your work, my mistake... apologies.
>

Yep.

> oh books... whats that? <jk> You must remember that the people in
> alt.art.hirez are young. I believe cat bones or starlord are the oldest, mid
> 30's, but the average age is probably late teens, early twenties. This is a
> "hacker" community of sorts. The origin of the scene started with BBS's and
> ANSI art, evolving to what it is now... Perhaps you posted to everything in
> alt.art?
>

I'm 23 :)

> > 4. it unfortunately seems to be true that the ideas of art and expression do
> > not have anything to do with your life on earth
> >
>
> Bummer :)

Yeah I've been moping around my house all day dwelling on that ... ;>

> > > And you know, filters are there because they make things easy ... easy
> > >to create shit, but also easier to create something cool. The knife cuts
> > >both ways.
>
> depends if you can hide the blatant use of the filter. It wont make the
> picture, you have to do something else to make it good. I used to fall in
> that trap all the time.
>

I work with someone who uses a lot of filters. Know what? I find it hard to
tell what he uses a lot of the time ... his work is excellent.

> > > Next time you shove a orange/yellow/red plasma background behind some
> > >kind of pencil-work, instead of marvelling over the message, concentrate on
> > >the fact that you are leading the eye directly away from your focal point
> > by
> > >creating such a strong line off the page.
>
> Im not sure which pic your talking of, but in photography thats a common
> trick. Just dont go straight to a corner.
>

Yeah, I wasn't saying it shouldn't ever be done. But if it is done, it has to
be really well planned.

> >
> > >Yes, you can use cropped artwork
> > >for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.
> >
> > i am not sure what convoluted excuse for logic led you to believe that any
> > of my work has anything to with "the good of human existance", perhaps you
> > are projecting you own over inflated ego onto others. i will not even begin
> > to touch your comment on my process of thought or art, without a fundamental
> > background in even platonic thought it would be pointless.
> >
> Umm, i think thats sarcasm. but aphid, for the record, care to explain?
>

Yeah. Sarcasm. I'm not a very serious person most of the time.

>
> agreed. difference clouds suck :)

>
> i agree with aphid here... his work (geiger [ack cant spell today]) seems
> very commercial, and i never really liked it... well done technically, but
> when they make computer games with his artwork, you know theres something not
> right...
>

hehe. Should we start discussing the merits of videogame art?

> a little investigation (perhaps the links section on acheron.org, a true
> detective never reveals his secrets <grin>) leads us too....
> http://www.io.com/~verved for aphid twix's page... A well designed, clean
> site, tho imcomplete... He had a good one fully done before... perhaps you
> should repost it... And as too not fall into the trap, im at
> http://kaoz.org/atom , and my email is atom...@theglobe.com. i didnt post it
> at the botom before cuz im lazy and dejanews doesnt let you have sig files
> that i know of.
>

I took it down because I really didn't like what was on there anymore. I've
been planning on putting something else up. I might do it today. What is
there is a placeholder.

> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>

G.Spaceman (aka the aphid of twix)

setai

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

>me too, setai.

first thing i must clarify, my e-mail address is called setai, however, my
name is tracy aubuchon.

>i don't think anyone knocked the theme of the work, specifically your
>expression of experience,

if you had thoroughly read the post, no one had even looked at my art, nor
had i asked anyone to. the comments from "wu" were about either soulflare,
or hrg/dark. g spaceman, bashes a talented sculptor named estaban cruz(who
happened to have a few p/shop enhanced drawings). he just happens to share
the same webspace as i. g spaceman never mentioned(and i am begining to
think) never even looked at my art work. this in no way bothers me, because
it seems that perhap any real thought about serious art elludes both you and
g spaceman.

>it's validity as a form of 'art' (since the
>common man has such a need to be able to claim that he >expresses himself
>artistically, however blind he is to his own ability to do so in a
>learned and respectable manner)

NOT MY ART WORK ... this is esteban cruz's e-mail, why do you not say it to
him personally. ecr...@aol.com
i refuse to defend it, but if were doing soft porn fantasy pixs of women
with distorted breasts and touching themselves(catbones), i would not be
bashing any respectable artist's work.

>.. really what i saw in the prior post,
>and what i agree with, is that the work and the techniques are
>hodge-podge EFFECTS. Anyone's an artist with photomanip, >right?

i truely do not understand how one can say it any more clearly, not mine and
who are you to speak. if you would have had the basic intellegence to
research the topic before you jumped into a thread, you would have seen that
i don't use effects. I did look at your work, girlie art, super glossy,
batman, skeletons(rock on!). i now know why you dislike hr giger, because
your airbrushlike/fantasy work is dissmal and you are jealous. your work has
no depth or creativity(masterbation material for underage nerds). it is
complete product(poorly imitated knock offs of serious graphic artist) and
your riding on the coattails of these young street artist who have something
to say. they have a senstivity of line, a natural but raw sense of
compostion that is remeniscent of austrian expressionist, e.g. Egon
Scheile.

i have written articles about the new school of art that is emerging,
neo-expressionist street art. graffiti, comic artist, digital graphic work.
there is something very intersting and important emerging from this arena.
in a few instances, on this newsgroup i have seen this. "digital art will
become a legitimate art form", and the base from the art done here will
shake the stagnant gallery world. they are standing on archaic pillars,
that desperately need to be knocked down.

> hiREZ
>art to most of us here entails not only expressing yourself in a
>video-graphics array, but doing it in a fashion that makes the viewer
>want to stick around for a minute more. Hahahaha.

this is only my humble opinion, but i see nothing in you work to make anyone
but overly hormoned teenage boys wish to stick around. work like this is
the reason that fine artist snub their nose to graphic art. you and your
kind are holding down an art form which has evolve past you.

>
>> if you wish to have an intelligent debate on either subject, i am more
that
>> up to the challenge, however blind swipes at serious and important
subjects
>> is nothing but a frighten child's attempt to remove objects that they do
not
>> understand.
>
>ok bud, i'm a college educated, 14 year professional artist, not only
>commercial but fine art.. you wanna play ball?

i will first start with you witty verse "ok bud". Let's see, you must have
had the same literacy problem as mr. spaceman. i am not a bud, my name is
tracy aubuchon and i am quite female. if you would have armed your self
with the most basic of information(like looking at my artwork before making
this ridiculous post), you would have realized this. I must also question
the accreditation of any school that you would have attended. you have no
concept of art theory, and personally i see no fine art training in any of
your work. not to mention, did this school have any humanities courses,
your comments lack the fundementals of basic logic and you seem to have
little to no reading comprehension.

>
>tone down your act and you won't get ripped to hell. i just don't like
>your cocky attitude.

this once again, i must question your schooling. if you did attend some
pathetic form of art school, did you miss the art critique. in real art
school, this is what happens. why you think my attitude is cocky, why do
you fear minds that have properly educated themselves? i am a messaih
because a speak of art theory and plato, what have the big breast and skulls
dulled your creative impulse that much?

>other than that, keep practicing, you'll end up one day with a
>composition that works.

if that in any way implies that cheap poster art is "uberkunst", i suppose i
should explore another venue of expression.

i advise that your praticing seems to be fruitless, may a sugest a little
more education.

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

> hehe. Should we start discussing the merits of videogame art?

actually, imho, the purest form of digital art are demos... but thats just my
opinion... now you can argue about it... have fun children!!!

atom.drk.hrg.nct

btw- im 15 :)

setai

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

dear atom,

i realize that my tone does seem harsh, but my intent has never been
anything but to speak my mind and to clarify and discuss issues of art and
this new medium that i find important. i felt my setting straight of
aphid/g spaceman absolutely within the bounds of fairness(considering his
post). i also found his manipulative manner of criticizing not mine, but a
innocent bystanders work as mine repulsive. if people think think they can
throw around immature quips, they will find that there is always a person
who can and will retort.

having that said, i find no reason to "trash" you, you are the most
genuinely intelligent and natural artist that i have had a chance to speak
to on this news group.

atom...@theglobe.com wrote in message <6n5pom$bm4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

><clip> First, before you trash me as you did aphid, please keep this in
mind.
>1) I have NO artistic training. Never been to artschool, hell, havent even
>gotten to college yet. Ive taken required art classes and a photography
class
>so far (got an A :)). 2) Even because of this, do not dismiss my words.
>Because some of your "philosophy" may elude me, doesnt mean i dont have
valid
>points about what is pleasing to the eye, and what is not. I think its
>something genetic, actually. An eye for beauty can be improved, but not
>tought... I come from a family that surrounded me with art from an early
>age... My father did glass blowing, as did my mother. She also did textile
>design. My grandmother is an enamlelist who pioneered techniques never
before
>used, won a gold medal from the american craft council a few years ago.
Since
>your in the bay area, perhaps you should stop at Susin cummins gallery in
>Mill Valley, or the craft and folk art museum in fort mason (san francisco)
>and look a June Schwarcz's work... Thats my grammy :) So basically my life
>has been surrounded by art, and i think it rubbed off

though i have had a "classical" education, i do not see this a necessity to
intellegence or to being a good artist. i would never look down on a person
who did not have a higer education, if and when you do attend college you
will realize going to college means nothing. college is just an
opportunity, that many of it attendents do not even use. it is not where you
go in life, it is what you do with it.

from the work of yours i have seen, i think you have done an excellent job
in you own education. enamel work is fasinating art form and would be
intersted in hear more about your "grammy" and how this influnced your work.

>Agreed. I believe trashing photomanips and collages akin to how painters
>trashed on photography when it was first invented, saying it was "too easy"
>and it wasnt art. I know that its not true, and i hope you do too, aphid.
Try
>it sometime, its not as easy as it looks. instead of drawing chick pix, or
>rendering robots, which are hard, try a little time with composition on a
2d
>surface... lemme tell ya, it can be a bitch.

that is one of the most insightful comment i have heard on this newsgroup
yet.

>ermm... ok... Well, yeah, were made up of a mixture of what we encounter,
but
>i dont think thats quite relivant when you go to make an image... i try to
>deliver a message.. i may fail at that, but i tried... I dont try to sum up
>life. But your describing a medium, and yes, its a powerfull way to
speak...
>Each part of the collage could conceivibly convey something different to
each
>individual, perhaps a memory passed. Together it could mean something
>entirely different. Thats why i like it. Its a very powerfull medium, which
>is why i do it.

you see collage work, the process itself(as with many other art forms) is
just as important and at time more important than the resulting image. it
was the dada movement in the 20's that coherently placed this idea of
cut-ups in the world of art. without going into an art history lesson, the
dadaist formed the idea that artist take pieces of the world and rearranges
and manipulates them to be both a mirror of existence(not merely human
existence) and also a construct of new forms and ideas. a few decades later
burrough and gysin brought those ideas to literature, then john cage and
karlheinz stockhausen in sound(as well as the french musique concrete
movement). we are working in a meduim rich in theory and philosphy. cut-up
is the stuff of philosphers, we are not just expressing ourself but
explaining existance. being drawen to collage is not enough, making pretty
images w/ it is not its true intent.

>Im sure plato's ideas are very good ones, but i've always been a fan of
having
>my own to call on, instead of someone elses.

meaning this in the most helpful way, you on this point are completely
wrong. if you were to read plato, specifically the "allegory of the cave"
you would see that most beings are sitting there watching a shadow puppet
show on the wall. thinking that they are seeing reality "having my own to
call on" when in actuallity it is nothing but well orchestrated mirage.
just as collage work, we have little orginal thought neither most of yours
or mine are, atleast not fundamentally. we get our basis of thought from
somewhere(as collage does from images), intellegent beings find out from
where, ingnorant foolish beings just go on believing that they are their
own. that is not to say that what we create(images, words, our existance
itself) cannot be orginal, it is through our manipulation of these things we
create something new or individual.

>oh books... whats that? <jk> You must remember that the people in
>alt.art.hirez are young. I believe cat bones or starlord are the oldest,
mid
>30's, but the average age is probably late teens, early twenties. This is a
>"hacker" community of sorts. The origin of the scene started with BBS's and
>ANSI art, evolving to what it is now... Perhaps you posted to everything in
>alt.art?

about books and the origin of this community, i too started on bbs, and yes
i was aware of people like catbones, but there were many bbsers and
hackers, who were extremely intellegent. i did diverge when it came to the
primitive begining of this art form(i was involved in sculpture at the
time), but i know and was involved with the begins of this community. i
know that is was started by nerds(book and computer alike).
i am slightly older than the mean age, being 25 but age or lack of
background in ansi should not have relevance on my nor anyone elses
placement in a scene. my interest is in digital art as an art form, if it
wasn't i would be here, fighting off the hounds of over inflated breast and
under educated minds.

you see, with your own words explain the very reason i am here on this
newsgroup.

>
>>
>> here you go with this message rant again, if you can't grasp basic
philosphy
>> i will not even go into my or anybody elses message. if you would like,
i
>> could list multiple artists that lead the eye away from the focal point
or
>> have many focal points. as will become an often used term, this is not
my
>> artwork that you are critisizing, esteban cruz, is a sculptor(a very good
>> one i might add) who occasionally enhances his paintings and line
drawings
>> w/ photoshop.
>
>i'd have to see his work... do you have a url?

>
his work is on the same website as mine, the url is to the gallery w/ has
three artist, though the few scanned images of his sculptures do not do them
justice, lack of quailty tech on his part.

>> >Yes, you can use cropped artwork
>> >for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.
>>
>> i am not sure what convoluted excuse for logic led you to believe that
any
>> of my work has anything to with "the good of human existance", perhaps
you
>> are projecting you own over inflated ego onto others. i will not even
begin
>> to touch your comment on my process of thought or art, without a
fundamental
>> background in even platonic thought it would be pointless.
>>
>Umm, i think thats sarcasm. but aphid, for the record, care to explain?

thank you

>well, im looking at your site, tracy, right now... the one on your main
page
>doesnt do anything that couldnt be done with paper, nothing that takes
>advantage of what could be done with photoshop and computers. Perhaps im
>missing something. The two sculptures of the women are good technically,
but
>they are something you should have kept as practice for what the body looks
>like. You might try 3d modelling....

those are scupltures, nothing was maniputlated w/ the computer, just low
rez scan.
if you are intersted in them i could explain to you about them, but i
realize much it lost in a poorly scanned photo of a three dimensional
ceramic sculpture.

>the one of the woman with her head blown
>out isnt enough to be shocking, but not subtile enough to have a >message.

Ithink, with the background you were saying she had a >life before, but its

lost, and the gore goes to a point where it >looks like you put it on for
the shock value. perhaps you didnt, >but thats what i see.

mary was (though not in anyway an excusing my work) was my second piece ever
done w/ any digital medium(having had photoshop for three days and no other
experience in this meduim whatsoever). it is about the absolutes, in this
case fear. the sample food is a murdered prostitute, slumping on a bed.
the captured fear on here face, in her eye, represented to me the fragile
line between beauty and fear. the gore and blood was not to shock but
enhance the tenderness of this line. i saw the perfection of her death, her
betrayal, to me she was beautiful and terrifying at the same time. it is
raw and rough( partial to my newness to the technique and partial to the
subject itself). the meanings of the subjects are various and some
obvious(mary and the christ figure) some much more subtle and personal.

>the other sculptures are interesting.. the crosses i like cause they show
how distorted and fucked
>up religion has become of late. venus i dont get tho, but i might if >i
could see all of it, not just one side. the human vessel is best if >you
know the title.. its a cocoon... i like that...

more of my ceramic work, very different medium but the themes at times are
similar.

>the two bottom collages, esteban and zeny dont do anything for >me

to be honest they aren't meant to, they are personal portraits of people i
know. commisioned by the webmaster... there is one of me and also on the
poetry page one of deric and tim(every one envolved has one). however,
perhaps the one of tim might surpass the personal nature of this work.

>... and you seem to be using the same images over
>and over... Its to cluttered. I do like the last one tho, slumber... it
>flows well together.

i am begining to create a language, hence the repeating images, that too is
a well documented and used technique for collage and other fine art . the
clutter is intentional " naquaquam vaccuum "...
i know that is not a good technique for graphic art, and that the clutter
make is difficult to focus on the what one would suppose to be the correct
subject. it make is difficult to look it at as a pleasing subject(but i am
not a grapic artist).

slumber, that is definatly a more eye pleasing piece... and i do agree the
flow is much better, but the need for flow and classical compostion is not
as important for much modern art, and not for my work.

>> once again, not mine( none of my work contains difference clouds)... can
you
>> not manipulate a basic webpage?
>>
>
>i dont understand what your saying here... pleas clarify.. and im sure he
made
>the same mistake as i did mistaking soulflare as your work.

actually he was attacking a specific piece of estaban cruz's that used
difference clouds, and once again claiming is as mine. i was impling that
perhaps if he direct his way though a web page correctly then he might not
make such gross errors, especially since it states in large letters esteban
cruz.

i feel that considering the past post that it is an unfortunate necessity to
state that just because i have a knowledge of art theory and art history
that does not mean that my work in any way is taken from that. the concepts
which i have been disscussing are merely tools( just as photomanipulation
is). whether a pencil, paintbrush, software or education, a tool is the
foundation for expression. it is the process and the product that the
expression comes from. indivual thought is not hendered by theory and
information, but if used correctly, is a powerful tool for expression.

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

CatBones

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

setai wrote:

> i advise that your praticing seems to be fruitless, may a sugest a little
> more education.

MS.,

I'm not at all interested in your over educated-idiot rap. It's not
amusing, you're not clever or funny, you're just a lot of mouth. I'll
put my years of experience in a vast array of mediums against any
art-school grad who thinks he's rolled out with all the minds of those
who came before him now that he has a degree. You get over that in time,
and when you've worked in print, advert, illustration and design on a
professional level for a few years, you sober up to the fact.

You saw a few vid-adverts i did with pinup chics in them and summed me
all up, eh? Well, I can tell you that i went through your gallery, and
though you may not like my style in video, and i don't like yours, this
newsgroup is about high-resoulution art and graphics.. you can take all
the art history and theory that you (and I) learned in college and tuck
it away. Those who come here to meet and talk vga-art are definately not
your crowd. You're looking for one of those immature art snob conf's,
there are plenty to be found.

you're not amusing to any of us tracy.
not your art, not your wet-behind-the-ears opinions from your
textbooks.. nothing at all about you is amusing.

Well.. your audacity is a chuckle.

CatBones

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

setai wrote:

Ms.,

I thought i could let it go with my last post, but this has me right
here, i just have to go back into this again.

> i don't use effects. I did look at your work, girlie art, super glossy,
> batman, skeletons(rock on!). i now know why you dislike hr giger, because
> your airbrushlike/fantasy work is dissmal and you are jealous. your work has
> no depth or creativity(masterbation material for underage nerds). it is
> complete product(poorly imitated knock offs of serious graphic artist) and
> your riding on the coattails of these young street artist who have something
> to say. they have a senstivity of line, a natural but raw sense of
> compostion that is remeniscent of austrian expressionist, e.g. Egon
> Scheile.

First, i'd like to point you to some pics.. some things that aren't
advertising oriented like a lot of the batman's and pinup girls you're
so appalled by.

check http://www.wavecomputers.net/~catbones/working/

in that directory are some video-art pieces that represent a more fine
art approach to what we like to call "hiREZ" here.

you can sum up my video-art how you like, but the point is that it's
simply one facet of a lot of education and background, influenced by
years of developing in many mediums. My "hiREZ" style is just what i
want it to be.. art for my own pleasure manifests in many fashions.

Next, since you don't even know what my airbrush work looks like
(conventional i mean) i can't see where you jump off thinking you're
jabbing me there. Fact is, i had a really nice feature in Airbrush Art &
Action a couple of months ago. Perhaps you're mistaking for my
"photoshop airbrushing" for scans of the conventional type.

Aside from being a respected Airbrush artist, I am also a tattoo artist
of notoriety. My bodyart has been in print since '91, and i'm in the
upper handful of america's best tattoo artists. you can respect the art
of tattoo or not, depending on your mis-education, but it's an art form
that man has practiced for milleniums.

but THIS AND THAT and all the sculptures and oil-paintings we want to
pull out, they aren't the point here..

alt.art.hirez was started by ACiD Productions as a newsgroup for the
"scene" we know, the vga/hiREZ art underground of the internet. We've
been having our fun in "the scene" since 1992 or so. It's about CREATING
art in video. Not about conventional stigmas and boundaries. Sitting
down with a computer and making a video-array into something that in
this, the dawning of the age of information, that we can call a new
medium.

If you're not into the "hiREZ scene" and it's contingent, simply
unsubscribe.

I hope that helps.

CatBones

Menticide

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

> actually, imho, the purest form of digital art are demos... but thats just my
> opinion... now you can argue about it... have fun children!!!

Lets see, I've looked at pixel art on some web page (www.hornet.org?)
it was neatly carefully done, but toatal neatness can get boring after a
while.

setai

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

sir,

the response about pratice, was directed towards your quip that i would in
time w/ practice perhaps produce a good composition.
the fact we neither admire each others work, is obvious and rather expected.
it is not that i do not enjoy or respect graphic art, just not yours. i saw
what you presented, pin-up girls and skulls... what else would one judge you
on, your wit and your winning personality.

you brought up that you were educated and had experience, so why does mine
intimidate you? yes, my background is in fine art and i studies all of the
humanities, what kind of sin is it not to be a gruff street punk.

you sir, are just as much of an elitist pig as those "artiste" you hate so
much. if i were a immature art snob, why would i waste so much time,
fighting for the rights of serious digital artist with grumpy, hateful oafs
like you. this is a venue for digial artist, which does include fine art.
if i can admire and see the importance of what is going on with the grapic
art aspect of our medium, why can you not cope the smallest amount of theory
and art history. you do realize if you think that your work is distanced
from the "lofty bookish ideals", you are just deluding yourself.

i am hardly wet behind the ears, i perhaps have not sold my artistic soul
for 14 years for a few bucks and calander pin ups, but i will not allow your
delusional idea of this young art school girl continue. i am almost as old
as you and i have had gallery show too. most of my ideas didn't come from
art school but from my own passion to better myself, i realize to you that
is uncomprehensible, but it is still true.

you are the snob, you are the elitist. i didn't come here to amuse you, i
came here because i thought this was a place for digital artist. i don't
find your "i'm more hardend than you" image anything but an excuse for your
own work, good graphic art doesn't need that, it stands on its own.

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

Menticide

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

I've been reading these posts for a while and this is getting
ridiculous, and I think I have the right to go on a rant now [:

I would first like to back up what CatBones said. Its not about where
you went to art school or if you went to art school. Art is about
developing your own style and doing your best to show your opinions,
emotions, etc about a certian thing. I've checked out some of your
images of mediocre quality. It looks like a bunch of pictures from
www.rotten.com and thrown together in a hour.

These collages can possibly look good, but as of now they are messy,
unoriginal and uninspired. Like atom said, these "digital collages"
could have been done on paper. Sure, the computer makes it easier to do
these collages, but a computer in not a magican that turns shit into
art. Use needs to be made of the tools in photoshop, perhaps if you used
some originality, decided to think for yourself you could make use of
the great functions of photoshop (other than the filter menu, which I
see you have located) to make the collages good. Im not a fantastic
artist, but I know an unfinished picture when I see one. All your
digital stuff needs work except the one on
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/art.html (but was this one by geiger ? No
title or anything) That was a good pic. Reminds me of grim's style.

I say what I think, and I think no one here likes you. No one likes
your stuck-up, I am great attitude. You will never improve as an artist
with an ego like that. (Im making an assumption you don't take criticism
very well) This type of attitude especially pisses me off, and I try my
hardest to stay away from these sorts of people. So please stop trying
to pedal your bigtalk bullshit to people on this newsgroup. Perhaps you
can shoot the shit with more people of your type on another newsgroup.

Menticide

CatBones

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

setai wrote:

> the response about pratice, was directed towards your quip that i would in
> time w/ practice perhaps produce a good composition.

it was that, a quip. your attitude you initially displayed with FanBoy
brought on my attacks. You've just come off as affrontive every since
you started posting here.

> the fact we neither admire each others work, is obvious and rather expected.
> it is not that i do not enjoy or respect graphic art, just not yours. i saw
> what you presented, pin-up girls and skulls... what else would one judge you
> on, your wit and your winning personality.

H0h0h0h0h0.. if you knew me.

I don't need to justify the themes i enjoy painting in vid. I don't do
hiREZ art as a commercial endeavor.. i'm already quite successful in the
conventional art world, i do video, like i said, for my entertainment..
hence, cyber-erotica, death, carnage, whatever i feel like creating. 90%
of the material displayed on my grafix gallery on my site are snippets
from advertisements. (done for free, for fun, of course..) Poster-art?
Advertisement? It's not art.

I'm a big fan of the king of the Art-Nouveau movement, Alphonse Mucha.
His creations ranged from poster prints to castle wall murals to
designing currency for his home nation. In his earliest days, his
poster-art medium was just what you see in my work. Commercial smut used
to sell a product. Now, 80 years later, those (original) cheap poster
prints sell for thousands of dollars, and *do* hang in many, many
museums. Funny how the art critic's views on mediums and practices
evolve to allow for more 'treasures' to sell, isn't it?

The point behind that is, you can be as staunch a traditionalist as you
want, you can hate pin-ups and try to push them aside as cheap
masturbation material, but many great artists before me/us took the same
abuse in their day.

> you brought up that you were educated and had experience, so why does mine
> intimidate you? yes, my background is in fine art and i studies all of the
> humanities, what kind of sin is it not to be a gruff street punk.

you interpret my defense of out 'hiREZ scene' as intimidation?
Please don't bask in your own flattery.. I've met with some great
artists (and won't even drop names) and never felt intimidation.

there's no sin in not being a 'gruff-street-punk'.
that's an odd way to look at me, if you're directing that my way. I
think all the tattoos just trip you into the stigma you've learned about
who i must be because of how i look. Either that, or you've never had a
good healthy dose of honesty.

> you sir, are just as much of an elitist pig as those "artiste" you hate so
> much. if i were a immature art snob, why would i waste so much time,
> fighting for the rights of serious digital artist with grumpy, hateful oafs
> like you. this is a venue for digial artist, which does include fine art.

first of all, no, it's not for fine-art and art-theory discussion. Once
again, you're confused as to WHAT THIS REALLY IS. Alt.art.hirez was
created BY 'THE SCENE' for 'THE SCENE'.. there are a few hundred guys
like us who like to have fun and shove trippy grafix back and forth at
each other. We belong to 'clubs' or 'groups', like ACiD, or iCE, or
DARK. This isn't a forum where we make people feel welcome who have come
with their goddamned art texts to preach.

> if i can admire and see the importance of what is going on with the grapic
> art aspect of our medium, why can you not cope the smallest amount of theory
> and art history. you do realize if you think that your work is distanced
> from the "lofty bookish ideals", you are just deluding yourself.

Firstly, since i am an art-institute dropout of two years, I'm no
stranger to your concepts. Just because I was in Art School in '83
doesn't mean that they changed all the books. Art history and the
fundamental principlas are all still hanging around. Nothing wrong with
that. Having a fairily substantial art history education under my belt,
there's really no way that i could exclude or unlearn the building block
that have brought me to where i am. I'm just saying (was saying) that a
lot of "scene" artists don't WANT to be beat with the rules. They want
an opportunity to create within an all new medium, where they can
establish some NEW rules about composition and balance and form. Canvas
and video-grids have some things in common, but the differences force
the video artist to find new avenues within his medium to carry him or
her, where other methods and approaches might be more suitable for the
same expression in another medium.

> i am hardly wet behind the ears, i perhaps have not sold my artistic soul
> for 14 years for a few bucks and calander pin ups, but i will not allow your
> delusional idea of this young art school girl continue. i am almost as old
> as you and i have had gallery show too. most of my ideas didn't come from
> art school but from my own passion to better myself, i realize to you that
> is uncomprehensible, but it is still true.

sorry, i have to say this first..
Wow, a whole gallery show?
Okay, I'm not even going to sit here and play this game you want to lure
me into where you perpetrate your position by showing me minor
acchievements in art in your life, because I've worked the art-school of
hard knocks and acchieved FAR MORE. To sit here and play that tomfoolery
is rediculous, and I don't have the time to sit and give you a
bibliography of my art in print. Get off your high-horse, you're really
not going to make any friends or get to anything positive and productive
with that game.

I don't care HOW OLD you are, that's out and out rediculous to bring up.
Should I list a string of artists who succeeded young, and those who
succeeded old? how about those who didn't succeed til they past on? what
were THEY worth during their lifetimes. Your point?

Passion? Passion has made me an accomplished artist. I make a lawyer's
income on an art-school dropout's education, and that's owed to passion
and hard work that came from it.

> you are the snob, you are the elitist. i didn't come here to amuse you, i
> came here because i thought this was a place for digital artist. i don't
> find your "i'm more hardend than you" image anything but an excuse for your
> own work, good graphic art doesn't need that, it stands on its own.

my "i'm more hardened than you" attitude only came up when you began
pounding on art texts. revisions of the same ones on my shelf most
likely.

we're here to discuss the hiREZ scene. digital art and where we can take
it, not how we should imitate the wonders of art history or their
methods, because their methods and theories weren't based on pigments
that produced their own pixels of light.. the rules can't follow. we
have to be eclectic and take what we can and create what just won't
quite transpose.

i got angry and i went off on you tracy. but you can ask *any* of the
scen guys here, I'm not an asshole, I don't have an enemy in the hiREZ
scene.

maybe the hiREZ scene just isn't what you're looking for?

CatBones/ACiD

wombstatevector

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

Menticide wrote in message <359704...@mail.excite.com>...

>I've been reading these posts for a while and this is getting
>ridiculous, and I think I have the right to go on a rant now [:
>

so have I/ quite ridiculous/: that some of these people (catbones-
spaceman[?] and YOU -mentacide) continue to criticize T Aubuchon for her
"ego" when time and time and time and time again she asks you to criticize
HER artwork and not Estaban's/ I keep seeing arguments/insults made against
things she never said- or even implied!/

>I would first like to back up what CatBones said. Its not about where
>you went to art school or if you went to art school. Art is about
>developing your own style and doing your best to show your opinions,

>emotions, etc about a certain thing.

true- but she already explained that!/ or am I getting posts on my server
that you aren't?
the ideas of expression which have come before us provide a foundation for
our own/ if one does not acknowledge this- he will simply repeat what has
already been done/ I'm an experimental/ abstract electronic musician and
graduated from art school- majoring in art history- to fully explore all
ideas throughout history/ I would like to think of my soundscapes/collages
as "original"- but the work and ideas of other musicians/artists has
influenced my work- it has to!/ this allows you to continue the process of
art's evolution/ you can shape new vectors starting from where previous
artists left off/

come on people/ exercise those neurons!/

> I've checked out some of your
>images of mediocre quality. It looks like a bunch of pictures from
>www.rotten.com and thrown together in a hour.
>
>These collages can possibly look good, but as of now they are messy,
>unoriginal and uninspired.

you may not like them/ but I for one find them very- troubling/disturbing/
in the "good-way"/ if you look beyond the "gore" (of Mary) you begin to see
those "things" which all of us have "seen" (maybe not you) but aren't
normally shown to us/ not death/ not violence/ but the true face/ origins/
destiny of biological systems/ but this is just what I see- which doesn't
matter IMO/ as it does not matter what YOU think/ all that matters is what
she experienced in the process of creation- the result is a precipitate/ a
"picture" which can only partially convey a sense of The Act/ Art is a verb-
not a noun/

oops!- I forgot that concept is blasphemy in $$$graphic$$$ art- (like it is
in $$$popular$$$ music)/ sorry :)

unoriginal?/ I've seen ALOT of art/ most of this stuff is pretty damned
unique/ even if you don't like it/ you have to admit that/

>Like atom said, these "digital collages"
>could have been done on paper. Sure, the computer makes it easier to do
>these collages, but a computer in not a magican that turns shit into
>art.

maybe some of them could be done "on paper"/ definitely NOT "Fallen" or
"Slumber" though/ there are too many bioplasmic transitions from form to
form/ besides- paper is paper/dead trees/ analog/ done/ digital art-
regardless of content-is binary/electrons/information/ which is quite a
lovely "message" in itself :)

> Use needs to be made of the tools in photoshop, perhaps if you used
>some originality,

once again/ this is pretty original work/ certainly alot more original than
most acid/ice $$$graphic$$$ art that I've seen/

>decided to think for yourself

I see!/ anyone that acknowledges the merit of the ideas/visions of anyone
who has ever lived MUST have no original thought!/ ahah!/ can it be true
that I have been fortunate enough to actually talk to the Great Pantheon of
Art Gods?/ thou who hast cometh First and Shall goeth Last/ Behold Thy
Glory!/ Only Thine is the True Expression!/ good luck with that theory!/

>you could make use of
>the great functions of photoshop (other than the filter menu, which I
>see you have located) to make the collages good.

SHEM YEHESHUA!!!/ she said she rarely used filter approximately 759
sextillion times!!!/ are you taking your ridilin?/

> Im not a fantastic
>artist, but I know an unfinished picture when I see one.

how in hell can a piece of art be finished?/ if it's "finished"- might as
well throw it away- it's DEAD/

YIKES!/ another heresy!/ this is just not my day/

>All your
>digital stuff needs work except the one on
>http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/art.html (but was this one by geiger ? No
>title or anything) That was a good pic. Reminds me of grim's style.
>
>
>
>I say what I think, and I think no one here likes you. No one likes
>your stuck-up, I am great attitude. You will never improve as an artist
>with an ego like that.

WOW!/ that's one of the most blatantly hypocritical statements I've ever
seen/ are you joking?/: "no one here likes you"/ "you will never improve as
an artist with an ego like that"/ you should be pretty embarrassed!/
Truth/: everyone is an hypocrite / but most at least TRY not to be/

and/: where is this supposed egomania?/ she was simply trying to make you
stop criticizing SOMEONE ELSE'S (estaban cruz) art- when the artist isn't
even HERE to remark on it!/ I've seen very few comments on HER work- and
when there are- she seems to be fine with it/ then T. gets attacked for just
trying to explain to you people what was already obvious!/

>(Im making an assumption you don't take criticism
>very well)

the ONLY criticism she was given- she took very well/ the vast majority of
the "criticism" seems to be directed at imaginary objects/ and Esteban/
which is just silly/

>This type of attitude especially pisses me off, and I try my
>hardest to stay away from these sorts of people. So please stop trying
>to pedal your bigtalk bullshit to people on this newsgroup. Perhaps you
>can shoot the shit with more people of your type on another newsgroup.

YOU NAZI!/ BLACK PEOPLE HAVE JUST AS MUCH A RIGHT TO CREATE ART AS ANYONE
ELSE!!!/ BIGOT!!!

there/: how do YOU like to be attacked over things you NEVER said- or even
implied/?

T.- you're taking all this nonsense very well/ most of these replies didn't
deserve any response/ of course you probably made them dizzy- which would
have been fun to watch :)

wombstatevector

unread,

Jun 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/28/98

CatBones wrote in message <35970A...@wavecomputers.net>...

>I don't need to justify the themes i enjoy painting in vid. I don't do
>hiREZ art as a commercial endeavor.. i'm already quite successful in the
>conventional art world, i do video, like i said, for my entertainment..
>hence, cyber-erotica, death, carnage, whatever i feel like creating. 90%
>of the material displayed on my grafix gallery on my site are snippets
>from advertisements. (done for free, for fun, of course..) Poster-art?
>Advertisement? It's not art.

geepers!/ she backed you into a corner/ and you cower to such a great
extent- that you say your work isn't even art!/ (chalk-up one for T.-
several thousand more for style :))

>
>I'm a big fan of the king of the Art-Nouveau movement, Alphonse Mucha.
>His creations ranged from poster prints to castle wall murals to
>designing currency for his home nation. In his earliest days, his
>poster-art medium was just what you see in my work. Commercial smut used
>to sell a product. Now, 80 years later, those (original) cheap poster
>prints sell for thousands of dollars, and *do* hang in many, many
>museums. Funny how the art critic's views on mediums and practices
>evolve to allow for more 'treasures' to sell, isn't it?
>
>The point behind that is, you can be as staunch a traditionalist as you
>want, you can hate pin-ups and try to push them aside as cheap
>masturbation material, but many great artists before me/us took the same
>abuse in their day.

I really don't think that this particular form of "pin-up" is going to be
hanging anywhere at anytime except for the occasional comic-book store
restroom/ of course- the TV-sedated masses might prove me wrong/

(that was just mean! :) )

>you interpret my defense of out 'hiREZ scene' as intimidation?
>Please don't bask in your own flattery.. I've met with some great
>artists (and won't even drop names) and never felt intimidation.

oooooooohh!/ your so coool!/

>
>there's no sin in not being a 'gruff-street-punk'.
>that's an odd way to look at me, if you're directing that my way. I
>think all the tattoos just trip you into the stigma you've learned about
>who i must be because of how i look. Either that, or you've never had a
>good healthy dose of honesty.

>first of all, no, it's not for fine-art and art-theory discussion. Once
>again, you're confused as to WHAT THIS REALLY IS. Alt.art.hirez was
>created BY 'THE SCENE' for 'THE SCENE'.. there are a few hundred guys
>like us who like to have fun and shove trippy grafix back and forth at
>each other. We belong to 'clubs' or 'groups', like ACiD, or iCE, or
>DARK. This isn't a forum where we make people feel welcome who have come
>with their goddamned art texts to preach.

now your diminishing EVERYONE ELSE'S artwork in this "scene"/ your
shameless!/

then get a fraggin' listserv e-mail list!/ just for that- I'm going to tell
ALL of my many rude/ass-hole/ friends to come and crash your party/
woo-hoo!/

>I'm just saying (was saying) that a
>lot of "scene" artists don't WANT to be beat with the rules. They want
>an opportunity to create within an all new medium, where they can
>establish some NEW rules about composition and balance and form.

rules?/ huh?/ she is talking about ideas/ theories/ you know/: those things
which allow you to send synaptic signals from your cortex to the motor
centers in your brain/ which make it possible for you to do anything in the
first place/ if anything- knowing and exploring/expanding/evolving the ideas
of the past are the only way you can go in new directions/ if not- your
so-called "NEW" rules will probably be old rules repeated that you just
didn't take the time to learn/

>Okay, I'm not even going to sit here and play this game you want to lure
>me into where you perpetrate your position by showing me minor
>acchievements in art in your life, because I've worked the art-school of
>hard knocks and acchieved FAR MORE. To sit here and play that tomfoolery
>is rediculous, and I don't have the time to sit and give you a
>bibliography of my art in print. Get off your high-horse, you're really
>not going to make any friends or get to anything positive and productive
>with that game.

reading your previous posts/ it seems to me that YOU
designed/produced/patented/sold-the-rights-to/ published/ and otherwise
perfected that "game" which you seem to now snub/ crazy crazy fucking word/

>Passion? Passion has made me an accomplished artist. I make a lawyer's
>income on an art-school dropout's education, and that's owed to passion
>and hard work that came from it.

(swelling orchestra!)

I saw your site/ in all it's Russ Meyerian/ pouty-little-spacetart/ glory/ I
understand what you really mean by "passion"/

>not how we should imitate the wonders of art history or their
>methods,

definitely not the wonders/ nah/ I wouldn't worry about that /

>because their methods and theories weren't based on pigments
>that produced their own pixels of light.. the rules can't follow. we
>have to be eclectic and take what we can and create what just won't
>quite transpose.

I don't remember t. mentioning anything about art-TECHNIQUE-theory/ but
various rather important concepts of expression/ actually- the "Platonic"
ideas are especially relevant to digital art/ considering that one of the
major fruits of this idea is the Platonic Reality of Mathematical Objects/
mathematical objects/ "digital"/ could there be a connection?/ hmmmmm/ :)

>i got angry and i went off on you tracy. but you can ask *any* of the
>scen guys here, I'm not an asshole, I don't have an enemy in the hiREZ
>scene.

"...when your a Jet- your a Jet to the last dying breath!.. DO DOOOO"/

>maybe the hiREZ scene just isn't what you're looking for?
>
>CatBones/ACiD

probably not/ I suspect that T. probably happened on this group like I did/:
thinking it was a forum of and about digital art/artists/ not mostly
video-game/magic-the
Gathering-playin'/hip-hop-white-boy-graffiti-sprayin'/never-had-a-girlfriend
-pimple-poppin'/Spawn-readin'/Ted McFarlane
worshippin'/5xtoo-big-pants-from-the-gap-wearin'/Ridilin-taking/ twits- such
as you esteemed gentlemen (and ladies)/

please/ by all means/ FLAME AWAY!

YOU WANT A WAR- YOU GOT A WAR!!!

wombstatevector

CatBones

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

wombstatevector wrote:

> T.- you're taking all this nonsense very well/ most of these replies didn't
> deserve any response/ of course you probably made them dizzy- which would
> have been fun to watch :)

hi wombstatevector.
i see you made it into this misplaced debate too.

I guess all i really want to do is to express once and for all WHAT THIS
NEWSGROUP IS FOR.

ACiD Productions initiated this group, specifically Rad Man and Myself
did.
Our intent was to create a usenet group so that our 'digital art scene'
(a collective of struggling artists and art students who form a little
cell or 'net subculture) could have a common ground for a meeting place.
A new Agora for the hiREZ Scene.

Unfortunately there isn't a good FAQ yet, we're working on it, it will
be on acid.org soon enough.

Let me say in brief what it is and isn't.
It's for the scene, for our subculture, not for lonely self-proclaimed
critics to try to start off topic spats involving deep and spiritual
ideas about WHAT IS ART AND HOW CAN IT BE EXECUTED IN A VIDEO GRAPHICS
ARRAY.

It's not about conventional/fine art. There need not be discussion about
scuplture or oils, or airbrush work, unless it's in comparing techniques
to video-art execution or the like.

within "the scene" there is considerably more "commercial gfx and
adverts" than there is fine-art. There are great usenet groups for fine
art purists.

It's here so that the guys in the scene learning to use the host of
grafix and 3d apps can talk about techniques. It's for sceners to put
their thoughts together and maybe work out new projects and new tangents
to take in the digital art movement.

It's not set here to be a battleground between educated zealots and
aspiring artists. That's just about as far from what we intended as you
can get before our hacker friends turn off your phone service. (that's a
joke, say hahahah..)

I just took a stroll through alt.art.*
There are PLENTY of groups where purists and fanatics can rave at one
another, several that i saw that would LOVE to have Tracy throw her two
cents into..

If you don't think you like our "hiREZ scene", that's just fine, hit the
bricks, mumble some inane lofty gibberish and walk away.

We didn't meet in our usenet scene-agora to try to meet more critics.
The world is FULL OF FUCKING CRITICS, we all get our fair share without
having to come to our own newsgroup and waste a lot of time running off
more.

well womB, your post was as least in a more civil and readable vein,
even though you had to jab a few times.
I'd suggest you find out what our "hiREZ scene" is all about and then if
you decide it's too far beneath you, move along, don't just come to be
disruptive.

I can't say it any more clearly, i can only say it with more capital
letters.

CatBones/ACiD
--

g_spa...@my-dejanews.com

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

Cat ... forget it. It's a lost cause. We aren't getting anywhere by
berrating this person, and she/him/they aren't worth it. I say let's leave
this thread to die. I should send you the email they wrote me ... the last
paragraph where they alluded to somehow knowing me in some sort of
trans-dimensional way was the icing on the cake. (That and the fact that if
you go to their web site without specifying /page1.html, you'll get a better
idea as to where they're coming from).

G.spaceman (aka the aphid of twixies)

CatBones

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

wombstatevector wrote:

> YOU WANT A WAR- YOU GOT A WAR!!!

what i really WANT is for you to realize that you've come to the wrong
place for the kind of fun you're trying to get here.

it's *really_really* hard for you to understand that, isn't it?

i'd *rather* have an old-west style gunfight in the street, but that's
not an option. errr.. if it is, clue me in.

I've explained the forum's reason for being. You misunderstood (or Tracy
did, or both) what we were here for.. no big deal. Now you know.

I've never understood some people's outright NEED to make enemies. What
is that?

CatBones/ACiD
--

CatBones

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

g_spa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> Cat ... forget it. It's a lost cause. We aren't getting anywhere by
> berrating this person, and she/him/they aren't worth it. I say let's leave
> this thread to die. I should send you the email they wrote me ... the last

yeah, it's a laugh isn't it? i mean there are a million usenet groups
made for people who like to argue for arguing's sake. Ignored long
enough, as they are of that ilk, they'll trip on to another virtual lot
to scrap in.

why can't i ever meet these kind of people face to face? i live for the
day. ;)

hey, yeah, forward me that, i just wanna print some of that silly shit
to show a couple of friends who'll get a chuckle too.

> paragraph where they alluded to somehow knowing me in some sort of
> trans-dimensional way was the icing on the cake. (That and the fact that if
> you go to their web site without specifying /page1.html, you'll get a better
> idea as to where they're coming from).

Yeah i looked it all over. Pretty run-of-the-mill all the way around,
and a hectic mess in html to boot. ;)

So anyway..
tie a knot in that thread and let's get on with the POINT. =)

setai

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

mr. catbones

you seem to have a skewed impression of me, my intent and my words.

> You've just come off as affrontive every since
>you started posting here.

actually i have written some extremely non-combative post, but you only
harbor on my responses that are more sensational. i have posted and had
very pleasant communiqué with more than one of your members.

>> i saw
>> what you presented, pin-up girls and skulls... what else would one judge
you
>> on, your wit and your winning personality.
>
>H0h0h0h0h0.. if you knew me.

the nature of the media only allows me to respond to your word and your art.

>Advertisement? It's not art.

considering the myriad of times, my words have been twisted... THAT IS NOT
MY OPINION, BUT YOURS

>I'm a big fan of the king of the Art-Nouveau movement, Alphonse Mucha.
>His creations ranged from poster prints to castle wall murals to
>designing currency for his home nation. In his earliest days, his
>poster-art medium was just what you see in my work. Commercial smut used
>to sell a product. Now, 80 years later, those (original) cheap poster
>prints sell for thousands of dollars, and *do* hang in many, many
>museums. Funny how the art critic's views on mediums and practices
>evolve to allow for more 'treasures' to sell, isn't it?

i never have said anything to disagree w/ that, in fact many of my post
support that. it is your art work specifically that i was referring to.

>The point behind that is, you can be as staunch a traditionalist >as you
want, you can hate pin-ups and try to push them aside as >cheap masturbation
material, but many great artists before >me/us took the same abuse in their
day.

i am hardly a staunch traditionalist, and it is your poorly done cheap
masturbation material(not the female image) that i found objection to.

>there's no sin in not being a 'gruff-street-punk'.
>that's an odd way to look at me, if you're directing that my way. I
>think all the tattoos just trip you into the stigma you've learned about
>who i must be because of how i look. Either that, or you've never had a
>good healthy dose of honesty.

i did not judge this on the way you look, but on your badly placed
aggression, and lack of simple courtesy.

not that this is any of your business, but have tattoos, piercing and
associate with people who would fit the bill of what you so quaintly said
was the "school of hard knocks" not that it really should have any
relevance on mine or your art(which is what this group is suppose to be
about)

actually representatives of ice(rad-man) and hrg/dark(atom) have been rather
welcoming and not at all unpleasant. i have found them both to represent
the most admirable qualities of a human being and an artist. they are
thoughtful and their work is thought provoking.

>Firstly, since i am an art-institute dropout of two years, I'm no
>stranger to your concepts. Just because I was in Art School in >'83 doesn't

mean that they changed all the books.I'm just saying >(was saying) that a

lot of "scene" artists don't WANT to be beat >with the rules. They want an
opportunity to create within an all >new medium, where they can establish
some NEW rules about composition and balance and form.

i have not once preached any rules, never said any of my ideas should be
implemented on anyone else's art or that they were more or less valid than
anyone else's. actually, it was aphid that discussed rules of composition.
my art doesn't follow many classical rules(and that was very intentional).

>Wow, a whole gallery show?

i have had quite a few shows and won many awards.... but my point was the i
was not as you called it "wet behind the ears", not that it would matter one
way or another. you are the one listing off accolades like it make you a
better artist/person. i don't care one bit who has shows or acclaim(i am
interested in the art people produce not the medals).

>because I've worked the art-school of

>hard knocks and achieved FAR MORE. To sit here and play >that tomfoolery

>is rediculous, and I don't have the time to sit and give you a
>bibliography of my art in print.

i am sure you have achieved quite a bit, where has this gotten you, i really
don't care. this is your game... i find it humorous that you would think
that it could have even the smallest effect on me.

>Get off your high-horse, you're really
>not going to make any friends or get to anything positive and >productive
with that game.

my goal was never companionship... nor to gain any monetary(which you seem
so fascinated w/) or artistic merit. though i have found this a productive
endeavor... i have gained a rather good insight on the kind of person makes
"your kind of art".

>I don't care HOW OLD you are, that's out and out rediculous to bring up.

you brought it up, your memory seems to be failing

>Passion? Passion has made me an accomplished artist. I make a lawyer's
>income on an art-school dropout's education, and that's owed to passion
>and hard work that came from it.

passion for what, money... dropping names... attacking women publicly..... i
am truly impressed

>my "i'm more hardened than you" attitude only came up when >you began
>pounding on art texts. revisions of the same ones on my shelf >most likely.

please name one art text book i pounded on, i would like to know, since
most of what is said was a synthesis of my own ideas mixed with basic
foundation in the humanities. perhaps you have some rather interesting books
collecting dust on your self.

>we're here to discuss the hiREZ scene. digital art and where we >can take
>it, not how we should imitate the wonders of art history or their

>methods, because their methods and theories weren't based on >pigments.

you say you know art history so i will not start a discussion on it's
evolution... the introduction to photography(need i say more)
i want, and have been trying to discuss digital art, but people like you
can't stop this eternal rant about things i did not even say.

>i got angry and i went off on you tracy.

yes you did, mr. catbones... and not in a productive way or even in a manner
that put yourself in a good light.

> but you can ask *any* of the
>scen guys here, I'm not an asshole, I don't have an enemy in the hiREZ
>scene.

i highly doubt that you are an asshole to the guys in the "scene", it would
be very unproductive to your passions. on the other hand, to me... well
that is a different story.... perhaps if i had something to offer you(a
large sum of money for you advertisements or some kind of recognition) other
than a desire to speak to other digital artists.

>maybe the hiREZ scene just isn't what you're looking for?

if you and the gentleman who said " everyone doesn't like you", represent
what the digital art scene are truly about, perhaps i don't.

i ask you nicely to stop wasting both of our time if you have nothing
genuine or of value to say. i would like to talk about digital art... not
your frustration at something that i am not.

t aubuchon
http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html

setai

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

i think i never met such a self-styled arrogonant clique... if for no other
reason, but to piss you off, i will remain in this newsgroup as long as i
can stomach your pathetic attitudes.

thank god at least one being(not suprising that he is a musician and not one
of you) has the least bit of sanity.

ok spaceman, you want to make private e-mails public... here it goes....

thanks for sending this to email ... web-based usenet posts are a pain to
put together.

On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, tracy wrote:

> mr spaceman,
>
> no reason to continue this as a post to further your attempt to save some
> kind of face, your comment pertaining to your dry humor was enough to see
> that i have won this little tete-a-tete.
>

I honestly have nobody to impress. I am not really involved in the
'scene' (which is the circle of people that alt.art.hirez evolved from)
anymore. I didn't plan to, nor am I going to post a lot to that
newsgroup. Really, I just thought it was kind of funny that someone such
as yourself would happen into it.

> you leaped into this thread w/ specific personal attacks, if your memory
> continue to fails you, i would be more than happy to humor you with the
> eveidence. having said that, i will not keep up this tedious copying of
the
> thread.

As bulletin boards evolved from Fido v1.0 (and FidoNet), people found it
.... useful ... to quote message threads. It's a habit I tend to keep
because my memory sucks.

>
> i see you can't find humor in my post, perhaps my attempt to dumb it down
> was not successful, i apologize.
>

You see, this is why I wrote to you. Because YOU, yes you, are the one
with the ego. I am an opinionated little git ... I write shit like I
wrote to you all the time. I get reactions. I antagonize the hell out of
people sometimes. And yeah, sometimes I even feel guilty. I mean, I felt
kind of guilty doing it to you the second time around, but at the same
time, there was also a certain sense of satisfaction.

Art is funny. There are so many different schools of thought. There are
so many people calling themselves artists. I myself come from a very
technical, analytical background and I find it hard to infuse such
philosophical meaning as you do into anything visually expressive. The
thought of it sets me on edge. Deep inner meaning is something I would
rather express through words. But that is just me. And you know what?
I am neither right nor wrong.

> you have at least given me a venue to vent my frustration with half
educated
> talking monkeys, like yourself who tend to publicly boost their ego by
> attempting to get involved in discussions that do not pertain to them. i
> can see you have the smallest grasp of the language so you can manipulate
a
> conversation so that the young or feeble minded will believe that you have
> something of value to say. if you were just a bit smarter you would have
> seen that your circling logic does not impress or move me. dancing
monkeys
> are monkeys all the same.
>

Sigh. Look. As I said ... I have nothing to prove. I don't really even
call myself an artist right now. I don't feel I have the life experience
to justify a title like that.

> are you claiming my work is crap, that i have no talent? if so, that is

I am saying I wasn't moved by what I saw. On the other hand, I am not
really moved by Picasso either. Or most artists. Mucha is one of the few
who I genuinely enjoy. And the funny thing is ... a lot of 'art critics'
will rip the shit out of his work and pigeonhole him as an 'illustrator'.
But hey. Opinions, right?

> fine. if you would like to back that up with some serious criticism,
please
> do. if you do know that i went to college, then you realize that your
> critique could never touch anything done in an art class day after day. i
>

Know what? I never went to art school. I went to a film school. And you
know what else? I never studied art history. And I never touched the
idea of abstract art. And you want to know why? Because I don't like it.
Because I think it is over-rated. And it is NOT because it's something I
can't do. I think lacing meaning through abstract artwork is a relatively
simple thing to do, and I think, in the end, that it doesn't stand up to
much because while that meaning holds true for the artist, it takes on so
many different forms for their audience.
There is a story. Of this girl. Who brought her shit to school
in a glass jar and handed it in as a project on 'a week in her life'.
It's a true story. And to me, it epitomizes what you get when you go
through art school.

Why do you want me to criticize your artwork on a serious level? I find
the composition and colour displeasing. Further than that, I will not go,
because there is no real point. NOT because I can't (since that would be
your first response) but because I DONT WANT TO. I don't have a problem
with poor art so much as I do with people who profess such profound
insight and yet fail to impress. Me. At least ...

> have never defended my art to you or to anyone on this group, i have
> never asked them to even look at it. no one, until your post, even
> commented on it, so how could my artistic ego have been insulted? of
> course it is an old and tired jab, so why would i expect anything
> better.
>

I was bored. And the Victorian eloquence of your writing was like chewing
on tinfoil. There you have it. Your aura pissed me off. Some people
piss me off ... everyone gets pissed off by some people. I just happened
to write about it and come up with a nice way in which to express it.

> oh, another clarification.... not one person like me or on my website
would
> ever go to a grapic art studio and pawn off their work. fine artist,
don't
> do that, not that i have anything against graphic artist, i just am not
one.
> your sad little story about the pretentious "artiste" is a foolish ploy
for
> sympthy and a pathetic attempt to save face.
>

Sympathy from whom? Nobody on that group other than you would probably
understand. Maybe Cat would. Not many people read that group. The
distinction you draw between the graphic and fine artist is enough for me
to read into it that you do indeed hold a grudge.

> and what kind of intellectual terror do you harbor that would make you say
> that plato is grasping at straws?

Because I think Plato is out-moded? Something to study and think about,
but so far removed from where we stand today that his theories have little
contextual relevance. I studied him in philosophy, not art. And it was
far more than a compulsory credit. But to tell you the truth I was pretty
half-assed with my reading of Plato and I only got a B on my paper. The
idea of the cave was too all-encompassing for me to identify with.

> the only person dropping names is you, if you discuss plato you mention
his
> name... of course perhaps you are more the plagiarizing type. you list off
> names as if to make yourself seem educated, however i don't see even the
> slightest comprehension of the men you mentioned.
>

I read Beauvoir and studied Sartre. I read Marx and Engles. I spent
maybe 10 months total on all of them (not individually of course). And
once again, it was from a philosphical, not artistic standpoint. I liken
you to the existentialists because they too held their philosophy in the
same way as pretentious fine art is held today. Can something be learned
from them? Yes. Do I take and apply it to my art? No.

> yes, there is an hr giger picture on the website i am on, considering you
> are in artpacks, you must realize that everything that surrounds your work
> doesn't represent your work. i use o'keefe in my some collages, this
does
> not mean i worship her, you should understand this far better than i,
since
> you are the graphic guru. is this continual barrage of giger a thinly
veiled
> attempt to hide the fact that you would rather criticize esteban's work
than
> face me?
>

Don't take this so personally. My message was actually more of a blanket
statement than anything. That's *one* of the reasons I didn't get all too
specific.

I am far from a graphic guru. I told you I thought I wasn't much of an
artist. I am almost never satisfied with what I produce ...

>
> and back to humor and gross misinterpretation: i said "oh, a century or
so".
> you reply to this by trying to mar my ability to form a basic philosphical
> timeline, cheap, cheap shot( and badly executed i might add). who are you
> trying to impress, or is it just your deep insecurity? if you would like
to

Another sigh. You really don't know me any more than I know you. And my
stereotyping of your flock (heh heh) is no reason to assume I am deeply
insecure about anything you might be willing to take a stab at.

> discuss plato, i would be more than willing to, and it will take more than
> your one complusory course and paper on elementary philosphy. i see that
you
> have made that fatal (but common) error to believe that socrates was
> implying that the republic was an ideal state, talk about missing sarcasm.
> reading a book and comprehending the message are two different things, is
> there anything that you comprehend or do you just quote because you can.
is
> that florida/speedo comment to make sure people know you read, it doesn't
> seem be directed to me.
>

Hmmm ... don't know where you extracted my interpretations of Plato's
writing from.

What do Speedos have to do with knowing I read? If reading were the gauge
by which all things were measured ... things sure would be a lot different
around here.

>
> oh, the only time(and just in your last post) you even mentioned one of MY
> pieces: guess what, you were wrong, not a filter! if you would like i
> could go into painful detail about my technical process. i can, however i
> never said i did not use filters, but that i rarely use them. if you wish
> to idenitify yourself as an expert on filters, you better get you
> information straight. your not very good at that.
>

As I said, I couldn't really remember the specifics of the image other
than the green and pink. Green and pink have never turned me on. They
remind me of a pair of Body Glove sunglasses (you know, the kind that were
popular in '88 or '89? The bendy kind?). Do you own a colour wheel?

>
>
> by the why we have met before (under circumstances that you wouldn't begin
> to understand or believe, but that is not important). we will meet again.
>
> you do not understand. you will.
>

Please explain ;) ... you remind me of this absolutely psychotic guy who
used to stalk my girlfriend with comments like that :P

> t abubuchon
>
>

i highly doubt you or your friend catbones would ever say anything to my
face, g-spaceman doesn't even have the spine to respond by e-mail with the
same bashing manner he does for public display.

NOW THIS THREAD IS ENDED, YOU SPINLESS BASTARDS!

t aubuchon

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

In article <3596F9...@mail.excite.com>,

nonoonopnonono. that pixel art is just a PART of demos... hrmmm... Ill assume
you have your dos setup still all nice and spiffy....

download this...
http://www.hornet.org/cgi-bin/ha_search.cgi?opt_s=0:cmapaim.zip
and then the patch to make it english...
http://www.hornet.org/cgi-bin/ha_search.cgi?opt_s=0:cmapaifx.zip

and tell me that isnt style :)

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

In article <6n7g5h$h...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,

"setai" <se...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>
> mr. catbones
>
> you seem to have a skewed impression of me, my intent and my words.
>
> > You've just come off as affrontive every since
> >you started posting here.
>
> actually i have written some extremely non-combative post, but you only
> harbor on my responses that are more sensational. i have posted and had
> very pleasant communiqué with more than one of your members.

Actually, i think just one, and that was me.... But i quite enjoyed it and
printed myself out a copy to keep... heh.

>
> >> i saw
> >> what you presented, pin-up girls and skulls... what else would one judge
> you
> >> on, your wit and your winning personality.
> >
> >H0h0h0h0h0.. if you knew me.
>
> the nature of the media only allows me to respond to your word and your art.
>
> >Advertisement? It's not art.

and why not? its just for a different purpose. Let me give a sorta twisted
example... Bookbinding. Its merely a showcase for the text, but hey! it can be
quite beautifull. Especially old ones where alot of time and care were put in.
You can put your soul behind anything.

> i am hardly a staunch traditionalist, and it is your poorly done cheap
> masturbation material(not the female image) that i found objection to.
>
> >there's no sin in not being a 'gruff-street-punk'.
> >that's an odd way to look at me, if you're directing that my way. I
> >think all the tattoos just trip you into the stigma you've learned about
> >who i must be because of how i look. Either that, or you've never had a
> >good healthy dose of honesty.
>
> i did not judge this on the way you look, but on your badly placed
> aggression, and lack of simple courtesy.

hrmm... you should chat with catbones on irc.. one of the most articulate,
polite people i know.

>
> not that this is any of your business, but have tattoos, piercing and
> associate with people who would fit the bill of what you so quaintly said
> was the "school of hard knocks" not that it really should have any
> relevance on mine or your art(which is what this group is suppose to be
> about)
>
> >first of all, no, it's not for fine-art and art-theory discussion. Once
> >again, you're confused as to WHAT THIS REALLY IS. Alt.art.hirez was
> >created BY 'THE SCENE' for 'THE SCENE'.. there are a few hundred guys
> >like us who like to have fun and shove trippy grafix back and forth at
> >each other. We belong to 'clubs' or 'groups', like ACiD, or iCE, or
> >DARK. This isn't a forum where we make people feel welcome who have come
> >with their goddamned art texts to preach.
>
> actually representatives of ice(rad-man) and hrg/dark(atom) have been rather
> welcoming and not at all unpleasant. i have found them both to represent
> the most admirable qualities of a human being and an artist. they are
> thoughtful and their work is thought provoking.

radman is of acid... And i take everything i ever said back...she knows what
she's talking about :)... speaking of radman, i dont think ive ever seen his
work....

>
> i am sure you have achieved quite a bit, where has this gotten you, i really
> don't care. this is your game... i find it humorous that you would think
> that it could have even the smallest effect on me.
>
> >Get off your high-horse, you're really
> >not going to make any friends or get to anything positive and >productive
> with that game.
>
> my goal was never companionship... nor to gain any monetary(which you seem
> so fascinated w/) or artistic merit. though i have found this a productive
> endeavor... i have gained a rather good insight on the kind of person makes
> "your kind of art".
>
> >I don't care HOW OLD you are, that's out and out rediculous to bring up.
>
> you brought it up, your memory seems to be failing
>
> >Passion? Passion has made me an accomplished artist. I make a lawyer's
> >income on an art-school dropout's education, and that's owed to passion
> >and hard work that came from it.
>
> passion for what, money... dropping names... attacking women publicly..... i
> am truly impressed

oh, cmon... he would take no different stand if you were male... that was low.
Now your putting a spin on things...

>
> i highly doubt that you are an asshole to the guys in the "scene", it would
> be very unproductive to your passions. on the other hand, to me... well
> that is a different story.... perhaps if i had something to offer you(a
> large sum of money for you advertisements or some kind of recognition) other
> than a desire to speak to other digital artists.

actually, he was quite polite to me before i was in to the scene and applied
to ACiD (and got rejected). He told me ways i could improve, and what i did
well. It helped me... Catbones is a VERY nice person, and I think this
personal attacking is getting a bit lame. Lets attack ideas, not people.

> >maybe the hiREZ scene just isn't what you're looking for?
>
> if you and the gentleman who said " everyone doesn't like you", represent
> what the digital art scene are truly about, perhaps i don't.
>
> i ask you nicely to stop wasting both of our time if you have nothing
> genuine or of value to say. i would like to talk about digital art... not
> your frustration at something that i am not.
>
> t aubuchon
> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
>
>

actually, its conflict that sparks progress. I encourage you to stay as a
catalyst.

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

In article <6n6k9r$s...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,

"setai" <se...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> dear atom,
>
> i realize that my tone does seem harsh, but my intent has never been
> anything but to speak my mind and to clarify and discuss issues of art and
> this new medium that i find important. i felt my setting straight of
> aphid/g spaceman absolutely within the bounds of fairness(considering his
> post). i also found his manipulative manner of criticizing not mine, but a
> innocent bystanders work as mine repulsive. if people think think they can
> throw around immature quips, they will find that there is always a person
> who can and will retort.

perhaps it was the mistake i made about confusing your work with others...
dunno

> having that said, i find no reason to "trash" you, you are the most
> genuinely intelligent and natural artist that i have had a chance to speak
> to on this news group.

allright people, go home now... she KNOWS what she's talking about. hehe

> though i have had a "classical" education, i do not see this a necessity to
> intellegence or to being a good artist. i would never look down on a person
> who did not have a higer education, if and when you do attend college you
> will realize going to college means nothing. college is just an
> opportunity, that many of it attendents do not even use. it is not where you
> go in life, it is what you do with it.

well, you seemed to say a large portion of us should go back to school... But
for the record, ill be a sophmore in highschool in september, and im 15

>
> from the work of yours i have seen, i think you have done an excellent job
> in you own education. enamel work is fasinating art form and would be
> intersted in hear more about your "grammy" and how this influnced your work.

Well, grammy basically pionered a large portion of the techniques used. She
was the FIRST to use electroplating and sandblasting, to the best of my
knowledge. She tought me about composition and colors more then anything...
especially colors since that was the basis for her work.
http://westword.com/1996/080196/art1.html has a bit about her, and her's is
the peice at the top, tho why they chose to make it all blue is beyond me
(stupid f0ks :))

>
> >Agreed. I believe trashing photomanips and collages akin to how painters
> >trashed on photography when it was first invented, saying it was "too easy"
> >and it wasnt art. I know that its not true, and i hope you do too, aphid.
> Try
> >it sometime, its not as easy as it looks. instead of drawing chick pix, or
> >rendering robots, which are hard, try a little time with composition on a
> 2d
> >surface... lemme tell ya, it can be a bitch.
>
> that is one of the most insightful comment i have heard on this newsgroup
> yet.

coming from someone who knows :)

>
> >ermm... ok... Well, yeah, were made up of a mixture of what we encounter,
> but
> >i dont think thats quite relivant when you go to make an image... i try to
> >deliver a message.. i may fail at that, but i tried... I dont try to sum up
> >life. But your describing a medium, and yes, its a powerfull way to
> speak...
> >Each part of the collage could conceivibly convey something different to
> each
> >individual, perhaps a memory passed. Together it could mean something
> >entirely different. Thats why i like it. Its a very powerfull medium, which
> >is why i do it.
>
> you see collage work, the process itself(as with many other art forms) is
> just as important and at time more important than the resulting image. it
> was the dada movement in the 20's that coherently placed this idea of
> cut-ups in the world of art. without going into an art history lesson, the
> dadaist formed the idea that artist take pieces of the world and rearranges
> and manipulates them to be both a mirror of existence(not merely human
> existence) and also a construct of new forms and ideas. a few decades later
> burrough and gysin brought those ideas to literature, then john cage and
> karlheinz stockhausen in sound(as well as the french musique concrete
> movement). we are working in a meduim rich in theory and philosphy. cut-up
> is the stuff of philosphers, we are not just expressing ourself but
> explaining existance. being drawen to collage is not enough, making pretty
> images w/ it is not its true intent.

see, we learn something everyday :). heh. I think i should throw in the point
that what i do mostly are _montages_ i think... but thats another interesting
tidbit of irrelivant data.

>
> >Im sure plato's ideas are very good ones, but i've always been a fan of
> having
> >my own to call on, instead of someone elses.
>
> meaning this in the most helpful way, you on this point are completely
> wrong. if you were to read plato, specifically the "allegory of the cave"
> you would see that most beings are sitting there watching a shadow puppet
> show on the wall. thinking that they are seeing reality "having my own to
> call on" when in actuallity it is nothing but well orchestrated mirage.
> just as collage work, we have little orginal thought neither most of yours
> or mine are, atleast not fundamentally. we get our basis of thought from
> somewhere(as collage does from images), intellegent beings find out from
> where, ingnorant foolish beings just go on believing that they are their
> own. that is not to say that what we create(images, words, our existance
> itself) cannot be orginal, it is through our manipulation of these things we
> create something new or individual.
>

Actually, i read that in 7th grade. We then had to write a paper on "what is
real" and i got a b+. hehe. how do i remember this crap? :) umm I agree with
the last part.

> >oh books... whats that? <jk> You must remember that the people in
> >alt.art.hirez are young. I believe cat bones or starlord are the oldest,
> mid
> >30's, but the average age is probably late teens, early twenties. This is a
> >"hacker" community of sorts. The origin of the scene started with BBS's and
> >ANSI art, evolving to what it is now... Perhaps you posted to everything in
> >alt.art?
>
> about books and the origin of this community, i too started on bbs, and yes
> i was aware of people like catbones, but there were many bbsers and
> hackers, who were extremely intellegent. i did diverge when it came to the
> primitive begining of this art form(i was involved in sculpture at the
> time), but i know and was involved with the begins of this community. i
> know that is was started by nerds(book and computer alike).
> i am slightly older than the mean age, being 25 but age or lack of
> background in ansi should not have relevance on my nor anyone elses
> placement in a scene.

and im quite below the median, at 15.

my interest is in digital art as an art form, if it

> wasn't i would be here, fighting off the hounds of over inflated breast and
> under educated minds.

I missed out on the ansi scene myself.. i wasnt a member of a group until
january of this year. And i think this scene is full of some of the best
educated and thoughtfull people (not counting #ansi, of course, heh. uNF!!)
but i think we all feel we have something to prove. i ran to the computer to
hide from life, and i think thats why most of us are here, to escape. And i
think were starting to take this alternate life online a little to seriously.
relax, chill, and have fun. Do what you feel is the best you can do, be proud
and show off. Inflate your ego, more power to ya. Carpe diem (or however you
spell it)

glad we agree.

> >
> >>
> >> here you go with this message rant again, if you can't grasp basic
> philosphy
> >> i will not even go into my or anybody elses message. if you would like,
> i
> >> could list multiple artists that lead the eye away from the focal point
> or
> >> have many focal points. as will become an often used term, this is not
> my
> >> artwork that you are critisizing, esteban cruz, is a sculptor(a very good
> >> one i might add) who occasionally enhances his paintings and line
> drawings
> >> w/ photoshop.
> >
> >i'd have to see his work... do you have a url?

nice stuff... good sculpture tho his photoshop... he could use some lessons on
filters and colors :) Minos works really well with the kpt filter (interform i
think) he used.

>
> >
> his work is on the same website as mine, the url is to the gallery w/ has
> three artist, though the few scanned images of his sculptures do not do them
> justice, lack of quailty tech on his part.

i know the felling.. i want a scanner.

>
> >> >Yes, you can use cropped artwork
> >> >for the good of human existance, but sometimes ... it requires thought.
> >>
> >> i am not sure what convoluted excuse for logic led you to believe that
> any
> >> of my work has anything to with "the good of human existance", perhaps
> you
> >> are projecting you own over inflated ego onto others. i will not even
> begin
> >> to touch your comment on my process of thought or art, without a
> fundamental
> >> background in even platonic thought it would be pointless.
> >>
> >Umm, i think thats sarcasm. but aphid, for the record, care to explain?
>
> thank you

yer welcome

>
> >well, im looking at your site, tracy, right now... the one on your main
> page
> >doesnt do anything that couldnt be done with paper, nothing that takes
> >advantage of what could be done with photoshop and computers. Perhaps im
> >missing something. The two sculptures of the women are good technically,
> but
> >they are something you should have kept as practice for what the body looks
> >like. You might try 3d modelling....
>
> those are scupltures, nothing was maniputlated w/ the computer, just low
> rez scan.
> if you are intersted in them i could explain to you about them, but i
> realize much it lost in a poorly scanned photo of a three dimensional
> ceramic sculpture.

nah its ok... Better then i could do :)

>
> >the one of the woman with her head blown
> >out isnt enough to be shocking, but not subtile enough to have a >message.
> Ithink, with the background you were saying she had a >life before, but its
> lost, and the gore goes to a point where it >looks like you put it on for
> the shock value. perhaps you didnt, >but thats what i see.
>
> mary was (though not in anyway an excusing my work) was my second piece ever
> done w/ any digital medium(having had photoshop for three days and no other
> experience in this meduim whatsoever). it is about the absolutes, in this
> case fear. the sample food is a murdered prostitute, slumping on a bed.
> the captured fear on here face, in her eye, represented to me the fragile
> line between beauty and fear. the gore and blood was not to shock but
> enhance the tenderness of this line. i saw the perfection of her death, her
> betrayal, to me she was beautiful and terrifying at the same time. it is
> raw and rough( partial to my newness to the technique and partial to the
> subject itself). the meanings of the subjects are various and some
> obvious(mary and the christ figure) some much more subtle and personal.

oh well... ok. I think i saw that picture on goregallery.com actually... I
hate that site, a friend tricked me into it. Tho perfection of her death... i
wouldnt call that perfection, but a messy tradgety

>
> >the other sculptures are interesting.. the crosses i like cause they show
> how distorted and fucked
> >up religion has become of late. venus i dont get tho, but i might if >i
> could see all of it, not just one side. the human vessel is best if >you
> know the title.. its a cocoon... i like that...
>
> more of my ceramic work, very different medium but the themes at times are
> similar.
>
> >the two bottom collages, esteban and zeny dont do anything for >me
>
> to be honest they aren't meant to, they are personal portraits of people i
> know. commisioned by the webmaster... there is one of me and also on the
> poetry page one of deric and tim(every one envolved has one). however,
> perhaps the one of tim might surpass the personal nature of this work.

hrm.. i actually kinda like the one on the main page... You should blend
things togehter more... just a thought.

>
> >... and you seem to be using the same images over
> >and over... Its to cluttered. I do like the last one tho, slumber... it
> >flows well together.
>
> i am begining to create a language, hence the repeating images, that too is
> a well documented and used technique for collage and other fine art . the
> clutter is intentional " naquaquam vaccuum "...

translate please... no spekee latin (i think thats latin...)

> i know that is not a good technique for graphic art, and that the clutter
> make is difficult to focus on the what one would suppose to be the correct
> subject. it make is difficult to look it at as a pleasing subject(but i am
> not a grapic artist).

try either blurring or lessening contrast of the background. Thats what i do.
Or use a unifying color scheme in back, and a different in front.

>
> slumber, that is definatly a more eye pleasing piece... and i do agree the
> flow is much better, but the need for flow and classical compostion is not
> as important for much modern art, and not for my work.

well, i like flow :)

>
> >> once again, not mine( none of my work contains difference clouds)... can
> you
> >> not manipulate a basic webpage?
> >>
> >
> >i dont understand what your saying here... pleas clarify.. and im sure he
> made
> >the same mistake as i did mistaking soulflare as your work.
>
> actually he was attacking a specific piece of estaban cruz's that used
> difference clouds, and once again claiming is as mine. i was impling that
> perhaps if he direct his way though a web page correctly then he might not
> make such gross errors, especially since it states in large letters esteban
> cruz.

well, i think he said he was reffering to the group you reperesented on that
page. His stuff actually reminds me of a co workers stuff, eric gurntner. (i
work at a computer store part time) www.derelict.com/batmite

>
> i feel that considering the past post that it is an unfortunate necessity to
> state that just because i have a knowledge of art theory and art history
> that does not mean that my work in any way is taken from that. the concepts
> which i have been disscussing are merely tools( just as photomanipulation
> is). whether a pencil, paintbrush, software or education, a tool is the
> foundation for expression. it is the process and the product that the
> expression comes from. indivual thought is not hendered by theory and
> information, but if used correctly, is a powerful tool for expression.

well ok... Then clarify the art theory with normal language instead of such
technical terms so us stupid people can follow long, k? :)

>
> t aubuchon
> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/page1.html
>
>
atom

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

In article <359704...@mail.excite.com>,

Menticide <Menti...@mail.excite.com> wrote:
>
> I've been reading these posts for a while and this is getting
> ridiculous, and I think I have the right to go on a rant now [:
>

> I would first like to back up what CatBones said. Its not about where
> you went to art school or if you went to art school. Art is about
> developing your own style and doing your best to show your opinions,

> emotions, etc about a certian thing. I've checked out some of your

> images of mediocre quality. It looks like a bunch of pictures from
> www.rotten.com and thrown together in a hour.

/me hands menticide some midol cmon menti, your pms is actin' up :) I can
tell you, photomanips take more then an hour, even for easy stuff... and with
the amount of stuff she has in each pic, she spent time on it, i can tell.

>
> These collages can possibly look good, but as of now they are messy,

> unoriginal and uninspired. Like atom said, these "digital collages"

> could have been done on paper. Sure, the computer makes it easier to do
> these collages, but a computer in not a magican that turns shit into

> art. Use needs to be made of the tools in photoshop, perhaps if you used
> some originality, decided to think for yourself you could make use of

> the great functions of photoshop (other than the filter menu, which I

> see you have located) to make the collages good. Im not a fantastic
> artist, but I know an unfinished picture when I see one. All your

> digital stuff needs work except the one on
> http://home.pacbell.net/dijit/art.html (but was this one by geiger ? No
> title or anything) That was a good pic. Reminds me of grim's style.

NONONONO. They're original, they have insperation, their just kinda... well...
ugly :) thats a geiger pic, btw.

>
> I say what I think, and I think no one here likes you.

i do, she made my ego grow :) besides, its good to have a catalyst in a
community. I read an article one where people said "hey, yer ruining our
community!" but thats when they first realized that a community is what they
had.

No one likes
> your stuck-up, I am great attitude. You will never improve as an artist

> with an ego like that. (Im making an assumption you don't take criticism
> very well)

she took mine well. Enough with this personal attacking, on with art critique.

This type of attitude especially pisses me off, and I try my
> hardest to stay away from these sorts of people. So please stop trying
> to pedal your bigtalk bullshit to people on this newsgroup. Perhaps you
> can shoot the shit with more people of your type on another newsgroup.
>

> Menticide
>

menti i say this as a friend. shut up :)

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

In article <6n779i$b...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,

"wombstatevector" <w...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
> Menticide wrote in message <359704...@mail.excite.com>...
> >I've been reading these posts for a while and this is getting
> >ridiculous, and I think I have the right to go on a rant now [:
> >
>
> so have I/ quite ridiculous/: that some of these people (catbones-
> spaceman[?] and YOU -mentacide) continue to criticize T Aubuchon for her
> "ego" when time and time and time and time again she asks you to criticize
> HER artwork and not Estaban's/ I keep seeing arguments/insults made against
> things she never said- or even implied!/
>

clapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclap. BRAVO!!!

> >I would first like to back up what CatBones said. Its not about where
> >you went to art school or if you went to art school. Art is about
> >developing your own style and doing your best to show your opinions,
> >emotions, etc about a certain thing.
>
> true- but she already explained that!/ or am I getting posts on my server
> that you aren't?
> the ideas of expression which have come before us provide a foundation for
> our own/ if one does not acknowledge this- he will simply repeat what has
> already been done/ I'm an experimental/ abstract electronic musician and
> graduated from art school- majoring in art history- to fully explore all
> ideas throughout history/ I would like to think of my soundscapes/collages
> as "original"- but the work and ideas of other musicians/artists has
> influenced my work- it has to!/ this allows you to continue the process of
> art's evolution/ you can shape new vectors starting from where previous
> artists left off/

i think ill just shutup and say i totally agree with everything youre saying.

alright, womvatvector or whatever yer nick is is RIGHT on target. but whats
with all the "/"s?

Menticide

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

The picture "marry" (which can be found on http://www.rotten.com )
looked alot better before it was stuck inthe collage.

This is alt.art.HIREZ and ARTSCEENE newsgroup.

> oops!- I forgot that concept is blasphemy in $$$graphic$$$ art- (like it is
> in $$$popular$$$ music)/ sorry :)

Hmmm?

> unoriginal?/ I've seen ALOT of art/ most of this stuff is pretty damned
> unique/ even if you don't like it/ you have to admit that/

No, I don't think so.
>

>
> once again/ this is pretty original work/ certainly alot more original than
> most acid/ice $$$graphic$$$ art that I've seen/

Its not that original. I've seen lots of these types of things, so maybe
you just better start looking harder. And photomanip artists that I can
think of on the artsceene do alot of painting in addition to just
sticking pictures on the page.
Have you even looked at an ACiD/iCE pack, or any other sceene art pack
for that matter? I seriously doubt it.

> I see!/ anyone that acknowledges the merit of the ideas/visions of anyone
> who has ever lived MUST have no original thought!/ ahah!/ can it be true
> that I have been fortunate enough to actually talk to the Great Pantheon of
> Art Gods?/ thou who hast cometh First and Shall goeth Last/ Behold Thy
> Glory!/ Only Thine is the True Expression!/ good luck with that theory!/

Thats not what Im saying at all. Im saying its good to inovate a
little. My tone was taken a little too harshly.

> >you could make use of
> >the great functions of photoshop (other than the filter menu, which I
> >see you have located) to make the collages good.

> SHEM YEHESHUA!!!/ she said she rarely used filter approximately 759
> sextillion times!!!/ are you taking your ridilin?/

Uhhh, she did use filters.

> > Im not a fantastic
> >artist, but I know an unfinished picture when I see one.

> how in hell can a piece of art be finished?/ if it's "finished"- might as
> well throw it away- it's DEAD/

The pictures needed more work, thats what I was saying.

> YIKES!/ another heresy!/ this is just not my day/

Its finished when it looks

>
> WOW!/ that's one of the most blatantly hypocritical statements I've ever
> seen/ are you joking?/: "no one here likes you"/ "you will never improve as
> an artist with an ego like that"/ you should be pretty embarrassed!/
> Truth/: everyone is an hypocrite / but most at least TRY not to be/

Should I say "No one seems to like you". Anyway Wait, maybe you are the
first.

>
> the ONLY criticism she was given- she took very well/ the vast majority of
> the "criticism" seems to be directed at imaginary objects/ and Esteban/
> which is just silly/

are you Esteban?

> >This type of attitude especially pisses me off, and I try my
> >hardest to stay away from these sorts of people. So please stop trying
> >to pedal your bigtalk bullshit to people on this newsgroup. Perhaps you
> >can shoot the shit with more people of your type on another newsgroup.

> YOU NAZI!/ BLACK PEOPLE HAVE JUST AS MUCH A RIGHT TO CREATE ART AS ANYONE
> ELSE!!!/ BIGOT!!!

What has this got to do with being racist?

Blah, shouldn't even respond to this shit...Nextime lets just ignore it
[:

Menticide

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
> In article <3596F9...@mail.excite.com>,
> Menticide <Menti...@mail.excite.com> wrote:
> >
> > > actually, imho, the purest form of digital art are demos... but thats just
> my
> > > opinion... now you can argue about it... have fun children!!!
> >
> > Lets see, I've looked at pixel art on some web page (www.hornet.org?)
> > it was neatly carefully done, but toatal neatness can get boring after a
> > while.
> >
> nonoonopnonono. that pixel art is just a PART of demos... hrmmm... Ill assume
> you have your dos setup still all nice and spiffy....
>
> download this...
> http://www.hornet.org/cgi-bin/ha_search.cgi?opt_s=0:cmapaim.zip
> and then the patch to make it english...
> http://www.hornet.org/cgi-bin/ha_search.cgi?opt_s=0:cmapaifx.zip
>
> and tell me that isnt style :)
>

Oh yeah, demos rule. I don't think my dos is nice and spiffy though [:

G Spaceman

unread,

Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

CatBones wrote in message <359737...@wavecomputers.net>...

>g_spa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>> Cat ... forget it. It's a lost cause. We aren't getting anywhere by
>> berrating this person, and she/him/they aren't worth it. I say let's
leave
>> this thread to die. I should send you the email they wrote me ... the
last
>
>yeah, it's a laugh isn't it? i mean there are a million usenet groups
>made for people who like to argue for arguing's sake. Ignored long
>enough, as they are of that ilk, they'll trip on to another virtual lot
>to scrap in.
>
>why can't i ever meet these kind of people face to face? i live for the
>day. ;)
>

hehe ... I know what you mean ;)

>hey, yeah, forward me that, i just wanna print some of that silly shit

>to show a couple of friends who'll get a chuckle too.
>

Looks like good old T. saved me the hassle. Check out her public post of my
email and look at the last paragraph that I replied to (the one where she
has met me before in some way I would not understand). Of course, my mere
mention of it to you was obviously justification enough to mortify me by
posting my private email. The horror.

>
>Yeah i looked it all over. Pretty run-of-the-mill all the way around,
>and a hectic mess in html to boot. ;)
>

The bit about the Charles Manson gallery was kinda weird.

>So anyway..
>tie a knot in that thread and let's get on with the POINT. =)
>

Hey, I noticed that you mentioned Mucha. I was really surprised ... but
then when I thought about it I wasn't. The funny thing is that I also
mentioned Mucha to her in my email.

There is a show of his work here at the Frye ... I went to it a couple weeks
ago and plan on going again next weekend. I was completely blown away with
seeing his stuff in person. One of my friends introduced me to his work a
while ago and it's really inspired me.

>CatBones/ACiD
>--
>,sS"$$$ ,sS"$$$ ,sS"$$$ ,sS ,sS"$$$ $$$"Ss. $$$"Ss. ,sS"$$$
>$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$"Ss. $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ """
>$$$ $$$"$$$ """ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$"""' `"""Ss.
>$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$
>`S$g$S' $$$ $$$ $$$ `S$g$S' `S$g$S' $$$ $$$ `S$g$S' `S$g$S'
>
> proudly coordinating the art of tomorrow
> ACiD hiREZ
>...............................................................
>.. http://www.catbones.com/ ..
>.. http://www.acid.org/ ..
>...............................................................

The Aphid of Twix (aka G.Spaceman aka twit aka dancing monkey)

CatBones

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Jun 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/29/98

G Spaceman wrote:

> Hey, I noticed that you mentioned Mucha. I was really surprised ... but
> then when I thought about it I wasn't. The funny thing is that I also
> mentioned Mucha to her in my email.

> There is a show of his work here at the Frye ... I went to it a couple weeks
> ago and plan on going again next weekend. I was completely blown away with
> seeing his stuff in person. One of my friends introduced me to his work a
> while ago and it's really inspired me.

I didn't know anyone else in the scene cared much about Mucha or Art
Nouveau in general.. Now there's a style of work that you won't see done
in the hiREZ scene.

Say, when you go back to the show, if they're selling any nifty
gimmick-goodies like 'mucha prints on shirts' or anything, i'd sure
re-imburse you for something i could give the wife (who's also a Mucha
fan). When I first learned to tattoo back in '90, she chose Mucha's
"Dance" from his 4 muses series as a tattoo design which i put on her
whole back, you may have seen it on my site.

That long smooth flowing linework and impossibly elegant french flow and
curve in his work makes it very difficult to tattoo. I'm sure it's be a
trick with a wacom pad or a mouse too, hahahahaha..

L8r AphidT.

iron...@my-dejanews.com

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Jun 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/30/98

>.........

Whadda stupid flame, boys and galz...

i_L//exHRg

iron...@my-dejanews.com

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Jun 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/30/98

Francis Seven of ACiD produtions

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Jun 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/30/98

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:33:20 -0500, CatBones
<catb...@wavecomputers.net> wrote:

>If you don't think you like our "hiREZ scene", that's just fine, hit the
>bricks, mumble some inane lofty gibberish and walk away.

perfectly stated.. thank you..
I come home to find all these flame posts cluttering my screen... now
that cat has gien us a post that may or may not offer some sort of
closure on this issue, I would like if I may.. to offer one more
little point... SOME of us are into fine art or pure graphic design
in the outside world and look to the "scene" as a place to try out
different styles and ideas... the things i do for group release are
wildly different than those things wich i would normally produce in my
life as a graphic artist.. heh.. yer all very lucky.. I just had the
good sence to delete the 63 line rant that followed this..
and just for the record.. i'm old.. and I have read a ton of those
book thingies =)
F7
ACiD Productions baby, yeah!

Francis Seven of ACiD produtions

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Jun 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/30/98

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:56:57 -0700, "setai" <se...@geocities.com>
wrote:

>> by the why we have met before (under circumstances that you wouldn't begin
>> to understand or believe, but that is not important). we will meet again.
>>
>> you do not understand. you will.
>>
>
>Please explain ;) ... you remind me of this absolutely psychotic guy who
>used to stalk my girlfriend with comments like that :P
>
>> t abubuchon
>>
>>
>
>G.
>

Ahahahahaha maybe if there was anything in any of your posts to bring
about any reaction in me other than laughter i would have added to
this bullshit pseudo-intellectual thread... but.. it seems to me your
just another sad, lonely person.. trying desperately to fill the
massive void in their life by learning for no other purpose other than
to have the ammunition to take shots at and berate people.. your sad..
and you serve no purpose.. and yes.. I saw your art.. it's solidly
average.

> i highly doubt you or your friend catbones would ever say anything to my
>face, g-spaceman doesn't even have the spine to respond by e-mail with the
>same bashing manner he does for public display.
>
>NOW THIS THREAD IS ENDED, YOU SPINLESS BASTARDS!
>
>t aubuchon
>
>

F7
ACiD Productions baby, yeah!

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jun 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/30/98

so lame he had to tell us twice! :) sup bamaz. Make me a sig file i_l with yer
wild ascii skills.

In article <6na5vi$qm0$1...@nnrp2.dejanews.com>,

Deric Henry

unread,

Jun 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/30/98

> F7
> ACiD Productions baby, yeah!

Dear god... Austin Powers???? truly frightening, man.

Truly frightening.

dijit

iron...@my-dejanews.com

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

In article <6nbntd$68n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
> so lame he had to tell us twice! :)

Because this flame makes me sick.. :)

> sup bamaz.

I still alive and tryin' to make some money..

> Make me a sig file i_l with yer wild ascii skills.

np..

Francis Seven of ACiD produtions

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:56:57 -0700, "setai" <se...@geocities.com>
wrote:

>> you do not understand. you will.
>>
>
>Please explain ;) ... you remind me of this absolutely psychotic guy who
>used to stalk my girlfriend with comments like that :P
>
>
>

>NOW THIS THREAD IS ENDED, YOU SPINLESS BASTARDS!
>
>t aubuchon
>
>

Ahhahahaha maybe if there was anything in any of your posts that could
bring about any response from me other than laughter i would have
added to this pseudo-intellectual bullshit thread.. your just another
sad, lonely person... hoping to fill that empty void in your life by
studying and improving your mind to the point where you can gain some
sort of misplaced sexual satisfaction by berating others... go away
thank you =)

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

ahh cmon f7, she made my ego grow... whats wrong with that? :) Maybe if you
gave her a chance before she went on that, err... tirade, you might like her.
Look at the enamel thread youll see she too, like the rest of us (excluding a
few who shall remain nameless <grin>) has a heart

> Ahhahahaha maybe if there was anything in any of your posts that could
> bring about any response from me other than laughter i would have
> added to this pseudo-intellectual bullshit thread.. your just another
> sad, lonely person... hoping to fill that empty void in your life by
> studying and improving your mind to the point where you can gain some
> sort of misplaced sexual satisfaction by berating others... go away
> thank you =)
>
> F7
> ACiD Productions baby, yeah!
>

Menticide

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

Ego is wierd. Your art hasn't changed just your opinion of it.
Confidence can be a good thing, but on the other hand having an inflated
ego can be bad. I like it when someone complements my artwork because
it doesn't happen very often [:

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

> Its not that original. I've seen lots of these types of things, so maybe
> you just better start looking harder. And photomanip artists that I can
> think of on the artsceene do alot of painting in addition to just
> sticking pictures on the page.
> Have you even looked at an ACiD/iCE pack, or any other sceene art pack
> for that matter? I seriously doubt it.

AHEM. Mr photomanipper here. menti- shove it up yer ass. Look at my stuff,
remissions stuff, lion gv's stuff, solar punks stuff, and fire from heavens
stuff and see what decent photomanips can do to improve an artpack

>
> > SHEM YEHESHUA!!!/ she said she rarely used filter approximately 759
> > sextillion times!!!/ are you taking your ridilin?/
>
> Uhhh, she did use filters.

um. no she didnt.

> > WOW!/ that's one of the most blatantly hypocritical statements I've ever
> > seen/ are you joking?/: "no one here likes you"/ "you will never improve as
> > an artist with an ego like that"/ you should be pretty embarrassed!/
> > Truth/: everyone is an hypocrite / but most at least TRY not to be/
>
> Should I say "No one seems to like you". Anyway Wait, maybe you are the
> first.

actually, i like this dude. he's got spunk :)

CatBones

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

atom...@theglobe.com wrote:

> nah, you got it wrong, menti... my art is the same, my opinion of it is the
> same, just my self esteem is boosted. :) I still dont like my work <grin> does
> anyone feel happy with the final product?

ummm.. yeah?

i don't release work if i'm not happy with the final product. whether
it's surreal hooplah tommpa and i conjure up, or "cheap pinup girls for
boys to masturbate to", (pardon that, i'm still chuckling about that
flame..) i always feel proud enough of it if it ends up in a pack.

i can't imagine not liking your work, i meanmaybe you don't like it like
you'd LIKE TO like it, but in varying degrees you HAVE to like it, or
aspects of it, or you wouldn't perservere to create more!

*i* like your work. =)

CatBones

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Jul 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/1/98

atom...@theglobe.com wrote:

> AHEM. Mr photomanipper here. menti- shove it up yer ass. Look at my stuff,
> remissions stuff, lion gv's stuff, solar punks stuff, and fire from heavens
> stuff and see what decent photomanips can do to improve an artpack

awe come on, you're gonna skip ME?
Surely you realize that a LOT of my vga's contain photomanipulation in
them. Admittedly I do a lot more overpainting and freehanding on top of
the imagery to try very hard to meld the use of photos into my finished
pics so that it's often hard to recognize where photo usage begins and
ends.

I think that's the bottom line in VERY APPRECIABLE vga photomanip art
pieces.. making the viewer entranced with the overall cohesion of the
work so that the photos just don't jump out as photos.

I love really creative photomanipulation every time. I'm just not a big
fan of chaotic collages where any semblance of an initial planned
composition dissapears into the clutter.

Long live photomanip! Everyone should have a digital cam! =)

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

nah, you got it wrong, menti... my art is the same, my opinion of it is the
same, just my self esteem is boosted. :) I still dont like my work <grin> does
anyone feel happy with the final product?

In article <359A7B...@mail.excite.com>,

Francis Seven of ACiD produtions

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:46:58 GMT, atom...@theglobe.com wrote:

>ahh cmon f7, she made my ego grow... whats wrong with that? :) Maybe if you
>gave her a chance before she went on that, err... tirade, you might like her.

>Look at the enamel thread youll see she too, like the rest of us (excluding a
>few who shall remain nameless <grin>) has a heart
>
>> Ahhahahaha maybe if there was anything in any of your posts that could
>> bring about any response from me other than laughter i would have
>> added to this pseudo-intellectual bullshit thread.. your just another
>> sad, lonely person... hoping to fill that empty void in your life by
>> studying and improving your mind to the point where you can gain some
>> sort of misplaced sexual satisfaction by berating others... go away
>> thank you =)
>>
>> F7
>> ACiD Productions baby, yeah!
>>
>
>

you are shameless.. a little bit of ego massage and you lose focus on
what's really happening.. heh.. that IS a show of your age =)

Francis Seven of ACiD produtions

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:11:38 -0500, CatBones <catb...@acid.org>
wrote:

>atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
>> nah, you got it wrong, menti... my art is the same, my opinion of it is the
>> same, just my self esteem is boosted. :) I still dont like my work <grin> does
>> anyone feel happy with the final product?
>

>ummm.. yeah?
>
>i don't release work if i'm not happy with the final product. whether
>it's surreal hooplah tommpa and i conjure up, or "cheap pinup girls for
>boys to masturbate to", (pardon that, i'm still chuckling about that
>flame..) i always feel proud enough of it if it ends up in a pack.
>
>i can't imagine not liking your work, i meanmaybe you don't like it like
>you'd LIKE TO like it, but in varying degrees you HAVE to like it, or
>aspects of it, or you wouldn't perservere to create more!
>
>*i* like your work. =)

no.. I know where he's coming from here cat... by the time a piece of
mine shows up in a pack i have usually found too many parts of it that
i am unsatisified with.... I hate most of my released works =)

Francis Seven of ACiD produtions

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:18:40 -0500, CatBones <catb...@acid.org>
wrote:

>Long live photomanip! Everyone should have a digital cam! =)
>

ack.. I'll pretend i didn't see you say that =)

Menticide

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
> nah, you got it wrong, menti... my art is the same, my opinion of it is the
> same, just my self esteem is boosted. :) I still dont like my work <grin> does
> anyone feel happy with the final product?

good then [: I dont really remember any of your art specifically, but I
think it was cool?

Menticide

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

Or you can think your art is not good enough (me) and keep trying to
improve the quality. I've done a couple of logos now which I like so
thats good I guess [:

> i don't release work if i'm not happy with the final product. whether
> it's surreal hooplah tommpa and i conjure up, or "cheap pinup girls for
> boys to masturbate to", (pardon that, i'm still chuckling about that
> flame..) i always feel proud enough of it if it ends up in a pack.
>
> i can't imagine not liking your work, i meanmaybe you don't like it like
> you'd LIKE TO like it, but in varying degrees you HAVE to like it, or
> aspects of it, or you wouldn't perservere to create more!
>
> *i* like your work. =)
>

> CatBones/ACiD
> --

Menticide

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

That was exactly my point, what I meant by that is there are alot of
good photomanip artists on the sceene [:

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

In article <359B0A...@acid.org>,
scar...@catbones.com wrote:

>
> atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
> > AHEM. Mr photomanipper here. menti- shove it up yer ass. Look at my stuff,
> > remissions stuff, lion gv's stuff, solar punks stuff, and fire from heavens
> > stuff and see what decent photomanips can do to improve an artpack
>

> awe come on, you're gonna skip ME?
> Surely you realize that a LOT of my vga's contain photomanipulation in
> them. Admittedly I do a lot more overpainting and freehanding on top of
> the imagery to try very hard to meld the use of photos into my finished
> pics so that it's often hard to recognize where photo usage begins and
> ends.
>

actually, i didnt know you used photos... I knew you've used rendering (in
the skeletal remains pic) and ive noticed you use filters... but never
photos. Well hidden :)

> I think that's the bottom line in VERY APPRECIABLE vga photomanip art
> pieces.. making the viewer entranced with the overall cohesion of the
> work so that the photos just don't jump out as photos.

yep. Thats my goal when i go at it

>
> I love really creative photomanipulation every time. I'm just not a big
> fan of chaotic collages where any semblance of an initial planned
> composition dissapears into the clutter.
>

is anyone?

> Long live photomanip! Everyone should have a digital cam! =)

tell me about it... You wanna know the greatest crime against man? Im doing
100 photomanips wihtout a scanner or a digital camera. Otherwise i'd be using
my own photos.

>
> CatBones/ACiD
> --
> ,sS"$$$ ,sS"$$$ ,sS"$$$ ,sS ,sS"$$$ $$$"Ss. $$$"Ss. ,sS"$$$
> $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$"Ss. $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ """
> $$$ $$$"$$$ """ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$"""' `"""Ss.
> $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$
> `S$g$S' $$$ $$$ $$$ `S$g$S' `S$g$S' $$$ $$$ `S$g$S' `S$g$S'
>
> proudly coordinating the art of tomorrow
> ACiD hiREZ
> ...............................................................
> .. http://www.catbones.com/ ..
> .. http://www.acid.org/ ..
> ...............................................................
>

atom...@theglobe.com

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Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

what i meant is being COMPLETElY happy, as in do you think its the best you
could have done. I reach a point where im satisfied with it, and THEN i
release it.

In article <359B08...@acid.org>,
scar...@catbones.com wrote:

>
> atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
> > nah, you got it wrong, menti... my art is the same, my opinion of it is the
> > same, just my self esteem is boosted. :) I still dont like my work <grin>
does
> > anyone feel happy with the final product?
>

> ummm.. yeah?

>
> i don't release work if i'm not happy with the final product. whether
> it's surreal hooplah tommpa and i conjure up, or "cheap pinup girls for
> boys to masturbate to", (pardon that, i'm still chuckling about that
> flame..) i always feel proud enough of it if it ends up in a pack.
>
> i can't imagine not liking your work, i meanmaybe you don't like it like
> you'd LIKE TO like it, but in varying degrees you HAVE to like it, or
> aspects of it, or you wouldn't perservere to create more!
>
> *i* like your work. =)
>

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

aren't you sorry you rejected me from acid? :) im gonna pester you 'bout that
for ages... hehe. Im stickin where i am thankyouverymuch, so dont go taking
bout sucking me outta dark or hrg

DISCLAMER: THIS POST WAS CREATED ENTIRELY IN HUMOR AND DOESNT WARRANT A
RESPONSE. SO SHUDDUP

atom...@theglobe.com

unread,

Jul 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/2/98

In article <359bc07e....@news.interactive.net>,

f...@bct-studio.com (Francis Seven of ACiD produtions) wrote:
>
> On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:46:58 GMT, atom...@theglobe.com wrote:
>
> >ahh cmon f7, she made my ego grow... whats wrong with that? :) Maybe if you
> >gave her a chance before she went on that, err... tirade, you might like her.
> >Look at the enamel thread youll see she too, like the rest of us (excluding a
> >few who shall remain nameless <grin>) has a heart
> >
> >> Ahhahahaha maybe if there was anything in any of your posts that could
> >> bring about any response from me other than laughter i would have
> >> added to this pseudo-intellectual bullshit thread.. your just another
> >> sad, lonely person... hoping to fill that empty void in your life by
> >> studying and improving your mind to the point where you can gain some
> >> sort of misplaced sexual satisfaction by berating others... go away

> >> thank you =)

> >>
> >> F7
> >> ACiD Productions baby, yeah!
> >>
> >
> >
>

> you are shameless.. a little bit of ego massage and you lose focus on

> what's really happening.. heh.. that IS a show of your age =)

> F7
> ACiD Productions baby, yeah!
>

im growing up :) "look ma, i got hair in my nether regions!!!" (just kidding,
i got that YEARS ago)

DISCLAMER: AGAIN IN HUMOR. SO SHUT YER TRAP

taba...@my-dejanews.com

unread,

Jul 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/3/98

> >Long live photomanip! Everyone should have a digital cam! =)

> ack.. I'll pretend i didn't see you say that =)
> F7

Speaking as someone who HAS to have a photo image - either scanned or digital
camera-ed - to get a piece started (as i'm not a good enough artist to just
sit down and freehand people or animals or anything else), i say - Stop being
so paranoid and tweaky about photmanipulation!! The 'original masters' tried
very hard to make their art as like life as possible - to make the proportion
and the colors and the perspectives just like it was in life. I don't the
ability to do that, and dislike making a picture of, say, a woman which is
disproportionate and poorly rendered. Being able to take a digital picture
or scan in an image that is the bare bones of what i want, and then using
photosheep to make it look like a panting or an (ACiD)trip or whatever is
GREAT!!! I wouldn't be in ACiD or any other group if i couldn't do that.

Nothing wrong with photomanipulation if it doesn't begin AND end with just the
photo.

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