100 yd bow shots?
kett...@yahoo.com
stores last night, and got to talking to another shopper. He claimed
he has practiced shots up to 100 yds and would feel comfortable
shooting a deer at 70 yds because he can put 3 arrows in a 3-inch
group at that range. I think he was pulling my leg. I don't think
you could have a sight pin for 20 yds and 100 yds on the same sight.
What do you think?
Elkaholic
Miss Elaine Eos
<3d2463d0-4f8b-4c88...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Yes, people do target shots accurately to that distance.
Hunting to that distance is, of course, one's own personal ethics.
It seems to me that, even if one could absolutely, every-single-time
make a target at 70-100yds, there's still the issue of hang-time. at
300fps (which is common for a target arrow, but quite fast for a heavier
hunting arrow) the arrow is going to be in the air for 1.5-2s at that
distance (it may leave the arrow at 300fps, but it slows down on the way
out there.) A whole lot can happen in that time, even if you discount
the idea of the deer hearing & reacting to you.
Still, if he wants to shoot that way, that's his business. I'm pretty
accurate (3") at 60 yds, but I don't think I'd take a hunting shot
longer than 30, myself. Not currently, anyway.
--
Please take off your pants or I won't read your e-mail.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which sends
unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups.
kett...@yahoo.com
> > you could have a sight pin for 20 yds and 100 yds on the same sight.
>
> Yes, people do target shots accurately to that distance.
OK, I did some quick calculations and if the arrow started off at 300
fps and didn't lose any speed due to air resistance (which isn't
possible, but is difficult to calculate), it would take 1 sec to reach
a target 300 ft (100 yds) away. In one sec, the arrow will fall 16
ft. Some trig shows that 16 ft of drop would require a 9 deg pitch/
tilt up of the bow. 9 deg at 30 inches is 4.75 inches. That means
the 100 yd pin would have to be almost 5 inches below the 0 yd
(hypothetical) pin. I think if I moved my sight down 5 inches, it
would be in the way of the arrow.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but if I'm not screwing-up my math,
it seems nearly impossible to shoot 100 yds accurately, especially if
you consider that the arrow is really going to slow down significantly
from 300 fps and the flight path is really parabolic, not a flat line
as I assumed for ease of calculation. Taking those into consideration
increases the time of flight and thus the drop and thus the pitch/tilt
angle.
Elkaholic
Frank
I guess if you're sighted in for the range and using a laser range
finder you could get away with it. Lots of guys have first pin set at
10 or 20 yards so there is probably room. There are also other type
sights that can be set for high yardage. I know a champion type archer
that is also a seasoned bow hunter and has a sight like this. Thanks to
arthritic neck, I can hunt with a crossbow and scope is graduated to
shoot from 20 to 60 yards although manufacturer recommends not shooting
game beyond 40 yards.
We all know when hunting that you seldom get to use the form that you
use on the target range. When conditions are less than ideal your
accuracy can change considerably. I once missed a deer at 10 yards with
my compound bow when I shot sitting down - something I never practiced for.
Miss Elaine Eos
<544d5d87-f8b1-42cc...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
kett...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > I don't think
> > > you could have a sight pin for 20 yds and 100 yds on the same sight.
> > Yes, people do target shots accurately to that distance.
> OK, I did some quick calculations and if the arrow started off at 300
> fps and didn't lose any speed due to air resistance (which isn't
> possible, but is difficult to calculate), it would take 1 sec to reach
> a target 300 ft (100 yds) away. In one sec, the arrow will fall 16
> ft.
Ah, no, that's not how it works. And that's because an arrow isn't a
steel ball, like in physics -- it "flies" through the air. For most
modern target & hunting bows, at 100 yds, your drop will be in the
1.5-2.5' range.
Oh, and you can't eliminate friction -- it's a fairly major factor :)
> Some trig shows that 16 ft of drop would require a 9 deg pitch/
> tilt up of the bow. 9 deg at 30 inches is 4.75 inches. That means
> the 100 yd pin would have to be almost 5 inches below the 0 yd
> (hypothetical) pin. I think if I moved my sight down 5 inches, it
> would be in the way of the arrow.
(Doesn't matter, based on false assumptions; see above.)
> I'm not saying it can't be done, but if I'm not screwing-up my math,
> it seems nearly impossible to shoot 100 yds accurately, especially if
> you consider that the arrow is really going to slow down significantly
> from 300 fps and the flight path is really parabolic, not a flat line
> as I assumed for ease of calculation. Taking those into consideration
> increases the time of flight and thus the drop and thus the pitch/tilt
> angle.
Standard "fletched" arrows:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAY3mThRi8E>
Airfoil FOBs:
<http://www.starrflight.com/video_fob_at_100yds.php>
Google "archery 100 yards"
Frank
wrote:
> In article
> <544d5d87-f8b1-42cc-9f94-af9d91ed6...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> kettne...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > I don't think
> > > > you could have a sight pin for 20 yds and 100 yds on the same sight.
> > > Yes, people do target shots accurately to that distance.
> > OK, I did some quick calculations and if the arrow started off at 300
> > fps and didn't lose any speed due to air resistance (which isn't
> > possible, but is difficult to calculate), it would take 1 sec to reach
> > a target 300 ft (100 yds) away. In one sec, the arrow will fall 16
> > ft.
>
> Ah, no, that's not how it works. And that's because an arrow isn't a
> steel ball, like in physics -- it "flies" through the air. For most
> modern target & hunting bows, at 100 yds, your drop will be in the
> 1.5-2.5' range.
>
of physics I remember iincludes the formula 1/2G(t)squared. An arrow
is not an airplane using Bernolli's (sic) principle. Pure physics,
disregarding air resistance, anything moving at 300 ft/sec will drop
16 ft in 100 yds. If you're hunting deer on the Moon, then arrow drop
may be in the range you specify ;)
Frank
Henry
http://home.att.net/~sajackson/ballistics.html
The site may lead to some interesting field experiments.
Henry
komputerklone
<kett...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:544d5d87-f8b1-42cc...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > I don't think
> > you could have a sight pin for 20 yds and 100 yds on the same sight.
>
> Yes, people do target shots accurately to that distance.
OK, I did some quick calculations and if the arrow started off at 300
fps and didn't lose any speed due to air resistance (which isn't
possible, but is difficult to calculate), it would take 1 sec to reach
a target 300 ft (100 yds) away. In one sec, the arrow will fall 16
ft. Some trig shows that 16 ft of drop would require a 9 deg pitch/
tilt up of the bow. 9 deg at 30 inches is 4.75 inches. That means
the 100 yd pin would have to be almost 5 inches below the 0 yd
(hypothetical) pin. I think if I moved my sight down 5 inches, it
would be in the way of the arrow.
* SNIP *
Well you made me dig out my bow and look at it. Martin Ocelot, 30" at 75
lbs using 31.25" GoldTip 6075 shafts and 75 grain tips. The sight is a
SoloTrak by Toxonics with 3 pins set to 20, 35, 50 yds. well up and out of
the way of the arrow path. The three pins are within 7/16" of space
(nearest to longest) and leaves me a full 3/4" of room below the 50yd pin.
I would say if my mind was set to do it I could add more pins and easily add
a 75 and 100 yd to my setup. Especially since the sight body can be lowered
another 2 inches from where it is set now and still be out of the arrows
path.
Would I though? Likely not as that really is a long shot. As your math
shows a 16 foot drop in the first second of flight that means I would need
to by on the edge of a field perhaps. I can't think of any place slightly
wooded that would have that vertical clearance for the arrow to travel
through. It might be fun to try my hand at the distance though. That is
what this sport is all about for me is the challenge of putting that arrow
consistantly in the target at a distance.
kett...@yahoo.com
> lbs using 31.25" GoldTip 6075 shafts and 75 grain tips. The sight is a
> SoloTrak by Toxonics with 3 pins set to 20, 35, 50 yds. well up and out of
> the way of the arrow path. The three pins are within 7/16" of space
> (nearest to longest) and leaves me a full 3/4" of room below the 50yd pin.
> I would say if my mind was set to do it I could add more pins and easily add
> a 75 and 100 yd to my setup. Especially since the sight body can be lowered
> another 2 inches from where it is set now and still be out of the arrows
> path.
If you use that link above and input your info, I think you'll see
something similar to what I got. The vertical drop between 20 and 50
yds (you're two most separated pins) is on the order of 45 inches, so
you're pins are only 7/16" apart. However, taking into account drag,
and the acceleration (remember, it's not linear) of gravity, the drop
between 50 and 100 yds is on the order of 250 inches. So, the
separation between your 50 and 100 yd pins would have to be
significantly more, probably around 2.5". So I think for the average
Joe, you would either have to sight-in for either the 20-50 yd range,
or the 100 yd range, not both.
What are FOB arrows?
Elkaholic
kett...@yahoo.com
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAY3mThRi8E>
Is it just me or does that look fake? He isn't tilting the bow up at
all for that range, and the grouping would be amazing with no wind,
but there's obviously a good deal of wind, which makes the grouping
look completely unrealistic.
Frank
I don't believe it either - for same reasons.
Frank
Henry
> What are FOB arrows?
>
> Elkaholic
Based on a video on their web site, FOB stands for Fletch Only Better.
Looks like this system may only work with Compound bows. See the
tuning page.
http://www.starrflight.com/tuning.php
tuning tips says the the FOB is for "fall away arrow rests only"
What is a fall away rest?
The following site is for OT archery amusement only.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXSuZHNO548&NR=1
Noticed you made a comment about cross bows, I have a couple of
questions about cross bows. I will start a new thread for the
questions.
Henry
Miss Elaine Eos
<1cf729cc-f0d1-4ddc...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
kett...@yahoo.com wrote:
> What are FOB arrows?
Airfoil vs fletching.
Miss Elaine Eos
<2b9befc8-1019-4568...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Henry <henry...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > What are FOB arrows?
> >
> > Elkaholic
>
> Based on a video on their web site, FOB stands for Fletch Only Better.
>
> Looks like this system may only work with Compound bows.
while they're designed to drive broadheads, they work fine for field
tips. They don't require a compound bow, but they *DO* require a
fall-away rest. (Otherwise the FOB hits it.)
Jim Mason
"Miss Elaine Eos" <Mi...@your-pants.PlayNaked.com> wrote in message
news:Misc-59C821.0...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
Remember that Olympic archery targets are set at 70 metres and the archer
who loses the gold with his bare bones recurve is usually the archer who
misses the bull once.
But although I have consistently shot 70 metre six inch groups with a
compound; I would never shoot at a deer at that range. Most hunters are
not Olympic archers and there are too many bad things that can happen with a
shot at that range.
On the other hand English archers taking part in the battle of Crecy in 1346
with longbows were considered passable archers if they could shoot at least
12 times in a minute and hit a man at a minimum of 200 yards and miss only
once.
Dobryla
> On the other hand English archers taking part in the battle of Crecy in 1346
> with longbows were considered passable archers if they could shoot at least
> 12 times in a minute and hit a man at a minimum of 200 yards and miss only
> once.
But I believe that in a battle in 1346 wasn't much of a problem hitting
someone at 200 yds in a crowd that could fill 500x500 yds field... ;-)
Henry
> while they're designed to drive broadheads, they work fine for field
> tips. They don't require a compound bow, but they *DO* require a
> fall-away rest. (Otherwise the FOB hits it.)
>
Poor assumption on my part, I made it based on the photos only showing
compounds (at least the ones I saw).
Miss Elaine Eos
Dobryla <dobrica_MAKNI@OVO_inet.hr> wrote:
Not to mention all 1000 archers shooting simultaneously. "Yes, sire,
that was *MY* arrow that killed that man...!" ;)
---
Btw, way back early in this thread, I made some totally bone-headed
remark about arrows not obeying the laws of gravity. I have no idea
what I'd been drinking that day, but someone corrected me, but I never
got around to owning up to my mistake. So here it is: yeah, I
completely brain-farted that one. Sorry about that. The other person
is right -- in 2 seconds, an arrow drops about 48' from its initial
trajectory.
Craig M
hunting ethics at all, or needs to have someone teach him more about hunting
then, just shooting the target, cause at that distance, he is going to just
wound the target, then he will have to chase it down to finish it off, no
shooting a deer at 70 yards is boasting, not hunting.
I for one do not hunt anymore, used to hunt small game with small bore
shotgun or 22 rifle, I like my archery to relax, I have made 100 yard target
shots, let me tell you that target looks real smal out there, and the scope
I use is bouncing pretty good.
70 yard shot on a deer, sounds like a boast.
C
<kett...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3d2463d0-4f8b-4c88...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
komputerklone
using 31.25" GoldTip 5575 shafts with 100 gr heads I can easily set my pins
to 20, 35, 50, 65, 80, and 100 yds. NO BOAST. Personally I am not
practiced enough to feel comfortable with a shot on game at more than 50 yds
but I do hit the 6" paper plates with regularity at the 80 and 100 yards.
The sight came with 3 pins and I added 3 more from a retired sight for the
longer ranges.
To answer Elk's question, today's fast bows and lighter graphite arrows
leave plenty of room (at least in this sight's arbor) and still have enough
clearance for the arrow and fletching. As to the "other shopper" I tend to
agree that 70yds is a long ways to count on enough penetration so that the
game is dispatched humanely. That's why it would have to be a record book
buck in the waning minutes of the last day of the season to tempt me enough
to try the 50 yard shot.
K
"Craig M" <craig...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4ZDhk.16203$uE5....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...