Another Newbie
Jeff Miller
I have been reading up alot on fish as much as I can, searching the web and
the newsgroups for the last week and a half or so. Most of my questions and
concerns have been answered but I have a few more that I am not so sure
about..
First let me start with what I have. 55gal setup, Aquaclear 500, heater
(which even when turned to the lowest setting keeps the water at a constant
78 degrees or so, so thats going back), Air pump, which I havent figured out
why I even need it, and its not currently in use, but I did get a 18" air
tube.
Right now in the tank I have 1 goldfish, 1 black mollie, 1 pearl white
mollie and 3 black phantom tetras. Other than the goldfish being a complete
slob and eating all the fish food, they are all behaving quite nicely as
expected. The other fish are now eating better when they are fed, I am
guessing they werent used to flake food or the new environment.
My questions are as follows, some very basic, and will probably seem stupid,
but if I knew the answer I wouldnt be asking, so please be kind..
1. Will the mollies be able to reproduce, even being different color? I
dunno how close to the same species they have to be in order for this to
take place. I think they are the same species, simply just different
colors, so my assumption is yes. In addition I am aware that they are
livebearers and will need salt added to their water for any reproduction to
take place. This isnt somethine I plan on doing right away, but it would be
nice, eventually.
2. I am interested in a Bala Shark and Clown Loach... They both seem to be
possible community aquarium fish, but they grow to be rather large.
Apparently the fish they sell in stores are still babies, since they arent
even over 3". I have seen some people mention having Bala Sharks in tanks
smaller than 55gal, but are they happy? Will they grow to fit the tank as
some fish do, or just keep on going? I would feel awefully guilty to have a
fish for it to only feel a bit cramped. Also, will the Black Phantom tetras
I have fall victim to such a large fish?
3. I havent found too many fish that I particularily like currently other
than the Bala Shark and Clown Loach to add, so I am up for some suggestions
of small "larger" fish for my tank... I would prefer to have some larger
6"+ fish in there with the smaller fish as well...
4. In addition to the 6 fish, I also have 3 plants... I have no idea what
they are since I picked them based on what I felt would look good in the
tank (they are 3 different kinds of plants). Will plants multiply, or will
I need to purchase enough to fill the area I want covered? Must I use a
special gravel, because right now I just have the standard colored gravel in
the tank?
5. Finally the last thing I can think of right now is my water level. How
high is it recommended that my water level be in the tank? I personally
want it as high as possible since the shorter the distance the water runs
from the filter, the quieter the tank is.
Thanks.
--Jeff
Gernot Lachner
> I have been reading up alot on fish as much as I can, searching the web
> and the newsgroups for the last week and a half or so. Most of my
> questions and concerns have been answered but I have a few more
> that I am not so sure about..
by buying some. the reason i say this is that some of the Q's you ask would
take up a lot of space to answer accurately.
let's give it a shot anyway;
> First let me start with what I have. 55gal setup, Aquaclear 500, heater
> (which even when turned to the lowest setting keeps the water at a
> constant 78 degrees or so, so thats going back),
jeff, what's your ambient temperature - does it fall much below 78 degrees
over any period of time ?
> Air pump, which I havent figured out why I even need it, and its not
> currently in use, but I did get a 18" air tube.
it makes a slow but useful inflater for an airbed <g>
seriously, before power filters became the norm, an airpump and airstone
was the only way to agitate the surface of the water constantly - the effect of
the bubbles is also quite pleasing to the eye - getting a long airstone which
runs all along the back of the tank can be quite spectacular.
> Right now in the tank I have 1 goldfish, 1 black mollie, 1 pearl white
> mollie and 3 black phantom tetras. Other than the goldfish being a
> complete slob and eating all the fish food, they are all behaving quite
> nicely as expected. The other fish are now eating better when they are
> fed, I am guessing they werent used to flake food or the new
> environment.
your choice of fish is odd, to say the least - goldfish are temperate water fish,
mollies come from hard, alkaline water and phantoms from soft, acidic
environs.
> 1. Will the mollies be able to reproduce, even being different color?
provided you have one male and one female, yes - they are pretty much
self-breeding, given even remotely adequate conditions.
<sniplet>
> In addition I am aware that they are livebearers and will need salt added
> to their water for any reproduction to take place.
the do NOT NEED salt but its one of the easiest ways to get water hard and
alkaline, that's why this myth persists.
> 2. I am interested in a Bala Shark and Clown Loach... They both seem
> to be possible community aquarium fish, but they grow to be rather
> large.
balas will grow to over 10" easily and are better in small schools. they are
skilled jumpers, easily spooked and often fussy feeders - neutral to slightly
alkaline water.
clowns, on the other hand, will grow _very_ slowly and a foot-long specimen
is probably around 10 years old. again, they are said to do better in small
schools but need rather softer water than balas - some seem susceptible to
ich since their tolerance range of water is a lot tighter than for many other fish.
> Apparently the fish they sell in stores are still babies, since they arent
> even over 3".
a 3" bala is a baby, a same size clown can be several years old.
> I have seen some people mention having Bala Sharks in tanks smaller
> than 55gal, but are they happy? Will they grow to fit the tank as
> some fish do, or just keep on going? I would feel awefully guilty to
> have a fish for it to only feel a bit cramped.
again, this "grows only to the tanks dimensions" is an antiquated idea
stemming from the times when power filtration and regular water changes
were unheard of and the fish were stunted by lousy water conditions rather
than tank size.
> Also, will the Black Phantom tetras I have fall victim to such a large fish?
no, the phantoms are aggressive little tetras and the bala sharks and loaches
are quite laid-back characters which tend to keep to themselves - while
almost all fish will gladly feed on fry and worms, crustaceans and such, i've
never heard of either the loaches or the B. melanopterus attacking anything
they cannot swallow whole.
> 3. I havent found too many fish that I particularily like currently other
> than the Bala Shark and Clown Loach to add, so I am up for some
> suggestions of small "larger" fish for my tank... I would prefer to have
> some larger 6"+ fish in there with the smaller fish as well...
another reason to get a decent book - finding interesting, compatible fishes
and reading up on them beforehand.
any of the atlases or encyclopedia are good investments but, for an excellent
all-round & affordable book, my i recommend "The Complete Aquarium" by
Peter W. Scott. ISBN 0-86318-603-3
> 4. In addition to the 6 fish, I also have 3 plants... I have no idea what
> they are since I picked them based on what I felt would look good in the
> tank (they are 3 different kinds of plants). Will plants multiply, or will
> I need to purchase enough to fill the area I want covered? Must I use a
> special gravel, because right now I just have the standard colored
> gravel in the tank?
depending on species, plants will multiply in the tank, again, given the right
conditions - no special gravel is needed for most but they need wildly variable
light intensities and, of course, food (fish waste or special fertilizing additives)
> 5. Finally the last thing I can think of right now is my water level. How
> high is it recommended that my water level be in the tank? I personally
> want it as high as possible since the shorter the distance the water runs
> from the filter, the quieter the tank is.
so do i, so i generally recommend that the water level be kept on a par with
the outflow lip of your filter, thus causing a current across the surface of the
tank rather than a waterfall.
i also prefer my filters to sit on one side of the tank, not the back.
right, you see how lengthy this gets in a short while but i hope it helped a bit.
keep wet;
--
sciathán leathair ~..~
"so what, exactly, do _you_ have in your belfry ?"
BigDogg
goldfish, because they do prefer temperatures closer to 65F and the mollies
and black Phantoms do nicely at around 76F. Quite a hop-up if you ask me.
Trade him in if you can (and if you choose) and get some other fish...balas
will end up being too small for the tank unless you plan on upgrading within
a year. Thankfully they grow real slowly so you can safely add 3-4 balas to
a 55 until they get to about 6 inches then look into a bigger tank, around
110-150 will do nicely.
BigDogg
Jason...@virgin.net
Jeff Miller wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have been reading up alot on fish as much as I can, searching the web and
> the newsgroups for the last week and a half or so. Most of my questions and
> concerns have been answered but I have a few more that I am not so sure
> about..
>
> First let me start with what I have. 55gal setup, Aquaclear 500, heater
> (which even when turned to the lowest setting keeps the water at a constant
> 78 degrees or so, so thats going back), Air pump, which I havent figured out
> why I even need it, and its not currently in use, but I did get a 18" air
> tube.
>
> Right now in the tank I have 1 goldfish, 1 black mollie, 1 pearl white
> mollie and 3 black phantom tetras. Other than the goldfish being a complete
> slob and eating all the fish food, they are all behaving quite nicely as
> expected. The other fish are now eating better when they are fed, I am
> guessing they werent used to flake food or the new environment.
>
> My questions are as follows, some very basic, and will probably seem stupid,
> but if I knew the answer I wouldnt be asking, so please be kind..
>
> 1. Will the mollies be able to reproduce, even being different color? I
> dunno how close to the same species they have to be in order for this to
> take place. I think they are the same species, simply just different
> colors, so my assumption is yes. In addition I am aware that they are
> livebearers and will need salt added to their water for any reproduction to
> take place. This isnt somethine I plan on doing right away, but it would be
> nice, eventually.
>
Yes they will reproduce! Salt is not needed for breeding, turning the
temperature up to 80F will tend to spur them on. Get two females for every male
though to prevent constant chasing!
> 2. I am interested in a Bala Shark and Clown Loach... They both seem to be
> possible community aquarium fish, but they grow to be rather large.
> Apparently the fish they sell in stores are still babies, since they arent
> even over 3". I have seen some people mention having Bala Sharks in tanks
> smaller than 55gal, but are they happy? Will they grow to fit the tank as
> some fish do, or just keep on going? I would feel awefully guilty to have a
> fish for it to only feel a bit cramped. Also, will the Black Phantom tetras
> I have fall victim to such a large fish?
>
Clown loach usually grow quite slowly so by the time they need a new tank you'll
probably be in a better position to give them one. Phantoms grow to about
standard Tetra size, only a couple or so inches at most.
> 3. I havent found too many fish that I particularily like currently other
> than the Bala Shark and Clown Loach to add, so I am up for some suggestions
> of small "larger" fish for my tank... I would prefer to have some larger
> 6"+ fish in there with the smaller fish as well...
>
I'd go for:Gouramies (Pearl, Croaking, Dwarf, Chocolate)
Bettas
Angels (Buy them small, don't add singly as they are territorial and will often
attack newcomers)
Giant Danios (very speedy)
Doras (of many kinds, I have a pair of lovely Raphael cats!)
> 4. In addition to the 6 fish, I also have 3 plants... I have no idea what
> they are since I picked them based on what I felt would look good in the
> tank (they are 3 different kinds of plants). Will plants multiply, or will
> I need to purchase enough to fill the area I want covered? Must I use a
> special gravel, because right now I just have the standard colored gravel in
> the tank?
>
As long as there is sufficient gravel for rooting, you're OK! Plants will
multiply if getting enough nutrients and correct light periods, wavelengths)
> 5. Finally the last thing I can think of right now is my water level. How
> high is it recommended that my water level be in the tank? I personally
> want it as high as possible since the shorter the distance the water runs
> from the filter, the quieter the tank is.
>
All the way to the top, the filter might even be able to be fully submerged,
check the instructions!
> Thanks.
>
> --Jeff
All the best
ciao
Jason
Idlewild
> Hi All,
>
> I have been reading up alot on fish as much as I can, searching the web
> and the newsgroups for the last week and a half or so.
i hope you've read all of the aquaria faqs that deal with beginning a
tank, good first fish, etc. if not, head over to
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Faq
and read read read!!!
> First let me start with what I have. 55gal setup, Aquaclear 500, heater
> (which even when turned to the lowest setting keeps the water at a constant
> 78 degrees or so, so thats going back),
that's an ok temp - mine is set at 80, and everyone is fine. it gets
even warmer in the summer (no a/c, fan blowing across the surface) and
no one seems to suffer.
> Air pump, which I havent figured out
> why I even need it, and its not currently in use, but I did get a 18" air
> tube.
you don't really need it, but if you like bubble wands and such, it can
be pretty.
> Right now in the tank I have 1 goldfish, 1 black mollie, 1 pearl white
> mollie and 3 black phantom tetras.
you want to get a separate tank for the goldfish. it is not a tropical
fish and prefers cooler temperatures - it needs more oxygen (deeper,
more egg-shaped body), and warmer temps hold less dissolved oxygen.
> Other than the goldfish being a complete
> slob and eating all the fish food,
hey now, you can't blame a goldfish for being himself. it's like
putting a plate of tuna before a cat and saying, "DON'T EAT! DON'T
SMELL IT!"
> 2. I am interested in a Bala Shark and Clown Loach... They both seem to be
> possible community aquarium fish, but they grow to be rather large.
clown loaches are very shy - need at least 6 or so for them to feel
comfortable. you will also need a place for them to hide. yes, they do
get large. they are also incredibly suceptible to ich.
> 3. I havent found too many fish that I particularily like currently other
> than the Bala Shark and Clown Loach to add, so I am up for some suggestions
> of small "larger" fish for my tank... I would prefer to have some larger
> 6"+ fish in there with the smaller fish as well...
pl*cos will become huge, if you like that kind of look. or the copious
amounts of poop it will produce. i have one that is 9 inches long, and
another that is 3 or 4 inches long.
black phantoms are schooling fish, you should have at least 6 of them.
mollies like brackish water, so you should not mix mollies with
freshwater.
> 4. In addition to the 6 fish, I also have 3 plants... I have no idea what
> they are since I picked them based on what I felt would look good in the
> tank (they are 3 different kinds of plants).
and, goldfish being what goldfish are, you will soon have zero plants.
regarding your other plant questions, you should read the plant faq in
the aquaria listing i gave you above. all of your ?'s are answered
there.
> 5. Finally the last thing I can think of right now is my water level. How
> high is it recommended that my water level be in the tank? I personally
> want it as high as possible since the shorter the distance the water runs
> from the filter, the quieter the tank is.
mine is an inch from the top.
-j.
--
"Wherever you are living... don't move. Sounds like some
sort of fuzz paradise." - Paula Sorensen
Jason...@virgin.net
Idlewild wrote:
I,ve found that Clown loaches tend to be more shy if kept with very active fish!
If they're the fastest in the tank then they tend to show themselves more!Mine do
not hide (three of them!) They are very "happy" swimming around the tank,
rootling!
> > 3. I havent found too many fish that I particularily like currently other
> > than the Bala Shark and Clown Loach to add, so I am up for some suggestions
> > of small "larger" fish for my tank... I would prefer to have some larger
> > 6"+ fish in there with the smaller fish as well...
>
> pl*cos will become huge, if you like that kind of look. or the copious
> amounts of poop it will produce. i have one that is 9 inches long, and
> another that is 3 or 4 inches long.
>
Ancistrus sp. tend not to grow as big, if you need an algae eater! Less poop too!
> black phantoms are schooling fish, you should have at least 6 of them.
> mollies like brackish water, so you should not mix mollies with
> freshwater.
>
? My mollies have never suffered in fresh water! They breed like wildfire,
something they would not do if the conditions were bad. I have always bought
them from freshwater tanks, for fresh water tanks, for the last 18 years with no
problems.
> > 4. In addition to the 6 fish, I also have 3 plants... I have no idea what
> > they are since I picked them based on what I felt would look good in the
> > tank (they are 3 different kinds of plants).
>
> and, goldfish being what goldfish are, you will soon have zero plants.
>
> regarding your other plant questions, you should read the plant faq in
> the aquaria listing i gave you above. all of your ?'s are answered
> there.
>
> > 5. Finally the last thing I can think of right now is my water level. How
> > high is it recommended that my water level be in the tank? I personally
> > want it as high as possible since the shorter the distance the water runs
> > from the filter, the quieter the tank is.
>
> mine is an inch from the top.
>
> -j.
> --
> "Wherever you are living... don't move. Sounds like some
> sort of fuzz paradise." - Paula Sorensen
ciao
Jason
Idlewild
> Idlewild wrote:
> > black phantoms are schooling fish, you should have at least 6 of them.
> > mollies like brackish water, so you should not mix mollies with
> > freshwater.
> >
>
> ? My mollies have never suffered in fresh water! They breed like
> wildfire, something they would not do if the conditions were bad. I have
> always bought them from freshwater tanks, for fresh water tanks, for the
> last 18 years with no problems.
allow me to quote the faq:
From the Beginner faq:
Some fish live in brackish water conditions; they will do better in
water with a small amount of added salt. Other species are extremely
intolerant of salt. Add salt only if all of a tank's inhabitants can
tolerate salinity. Mollies, for example are known to like salt,
whereas many species of catfish tolerate no salt at all. In general,
fish lacking scales (or having small scales) don't tolerate salt
well.
From the saltwater faq:
Mollies
Some people like to break in a tank with mollies which have been
acclimated to salt water. This gives you the benefit of starting with
inexpensive fish and get used to maintaining salinity and pH on
not-so-sensitive fish. Although safer, you don't achieve much marine
experience this way. Mollies are captive raised and bred.
If you buy mollies for your saltwater tank, you can acclimate them by
dripping saltwater into the bag over a period of 6-8 hours, removing
some water when the bag gets too full. _Slowly_ increasing the
salinity gives the mollies time to get used to their new environment.
You can keep the mollies in the tank after it cycles, but any
aggressive fish with continually harass the passive mollies.
From the good beginner fish faq:
The family Poeciliidae contains Guppies, Mollies, Platies, and many
other fishes. While these fish are often thought of as beginners'
fish
they have been intentionally left off the list until now in order to
make a point. The reasons these fish are often sold to beginners are
that they are cheap, brightly colored, and have a general reputation
among non-aquarists as easy fish. Notably absent from this list is
any
real suitability for keeping by beginners. For one thing, many
livebearers need high level of salt in their water to be healthy -
making them incompatible with many other aquarium fish. Many common
livebearers also are overbred, resulting in fish not nearly as
healthy
as those kept by aquarists of previous generations (or by the authors
of most books). Some are not even able to reproduce without human
intervention. Finally, due to their low market price, they are
generally not well cared for and may carry diseases.
Common Mollies are the Black Molly (which was derived from the Marled
Molly - _Poecilia sphenops_) and the Sail-Fin Molly - _Poecilia
velifera_ (of which there are also several color varieties
available).
Black Mollies need at least one teaspoon of salt per five gallons of
water to keep them healthy and prevent the outbreak of ``ich''
(_Ichthyophthirius multifiliis_, a parasite commonly seen in aquaria)
while Sail-Fin Mollies need at least three times this amount.
Sail-Fins grow to 6" while Black Mollies stay less than 3".
Brackish Water Fish
I have already mentioned some fish, such as Mollies and Glassfish,
which come from brackish waters - I simply have not called it that
before. Brackish water is intermediate between the fresh water of
most
rivers and lakes and the salt water of the Oceans. Brackish water is
found in gulfs, deltas, and lagoons, as well as a some lakes and
rivers. Because brackish water fish need so much salt in their water
they are not compatible with most aquarium fish. Further, brackish
water fish generally need more room per fish to stay healthy than
freshwater fish. Some commonly seen brackish water fish include Monos
- _Monodactylus_ species, Archers - _Toxotes_ species, Scats -
_Scatophagus_ species, and many species of Puffers (family
Tetraodontidae).
-end-faq-quotes-
i rest my case.
BigDogg
fishkeeping many moons ago I did not know anything about fresh vs brackish.
I bought the black mollies because I thought they would look cool in
contrast to all the other colorful fish. I added no salt to the water back
then and the mollies did fine...I have sold well over 100 mollies to LFS
including the original breeding pair. Mollies are brackish fish by name but
in most cases not by practice. I have some mollies in my tank over 3 inches
long that are still here from 1993 when I still didnt know anything about
adding salt to freshwater tanks. They bred up until about a year ago and
since have been retired to my old fish home where they will wait out their
final days in semi brackish water. My other mollies though are in a tank now
with various cats including the "salt intolerant" striped raphael cats, and
albino cory cats. I add 1 Teaspoon per 10 gallons and they are doing great
mollies cats platys and all. Dont always believe what you read, and do a
little experimentation. You could learn a lot from a dummy!
BigDogg
Idlewild wrote in message <1999010722101248671403@[192.168.0.2]>...
Peter T. Davis
that doesn't mean they will only live in brackish water. One common fact
among fish that originated in this type of water is their tolerance for a
varying level of salinity in their water. This is due to the fact
thattheir natural habitat regularly experienced rising and declining
salinity resulting from tidal movement and freshwater movement. It is not
surprising that "BigDogg" has had success with mollies without using
brackish water, first of all because of what I stated above, and because
the mollies we keep in our aquariums are generations removed from the
wild. Although a lot of fishkeepers find it pleasing to create what we
believe to be a "natural" habitat in our aquaria, it is not the only (or
the most) important thing, especially for common species such as the
molly. I'd suggest that "BigDogg"s success with the molly is more due to
proper aquarium maintainance and upkeep than whether he used or did not
use salt in his tank.
Peter
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc BigDogg <big...@spamzmediaone.net> wrote:
: I would have to disagree with the FAQ on this point...when I started
Jacki
they can live in freshwater. Their ideal environment would be to have
some salt added to their water. Just like raising kids. a damn ass
hole can raise a kid and do all the wrong things but it grows up to be a
huge success. Went against the "norm" but still worked. It is the same
thing. Since their natural conditions can range from very little salt
to high salt then they can survive in all situations. But the salt is
best for them. and BD I am not calling you a damn asshole I am using
it as an *extreme* example. LOL
Jason...@virgin.net
Idlewild wrote:
Just cos its' a FAQ doesn't mean it's right! Mollies have been bred for
years in fresh water, it is likely that they have gained some sort of
adaptation that allows continued successful growth in fresh water. It is
unlikely that Mollies are gained from their original source now, cause they
breed so well away from it. i.e not from the wild. Mollies taken from the wild
WOULD definately require brackish water, Mollies in todays shops, I doubt it!
All animals, regardless of where they originally come from, will adapt to their
surroundings with time(as a species). If they don't, they die, thus fish
surviving in fresh water now have successfully adapted to their surroundings.
I maintain my original claim! I have kept Mollies in my FRESHWATER fish tanks
for about 18 years, with no problems! I can't ever remember one case where
Ich has affected them, even though some of the other fish may have got it!
ciao
Jason
Peter T. Davis
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc Jason...@virgin.net wrote:
: I maintain my original claim! I have kept Mollies in my FRESHWATER fish tanks
: for about 18 years, with no problems! I can't ever remember one case where
: Ich has affected them, even though some of the other fish may have got it!
: ciao
: Jason
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Peter T. Davis ptd...@shore.net
Medford, MA 02155
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason...@virgin.net
Peter T. Davis wrote:
> You have 18 year old mollies!!!!
No, 18 is unlikely for most livebearers since breeding takes some condition from
them!My oldest ever was a Black Mollie of about 6 years old, quite reasonable for a
breeding female! (She had about 6-7 batches!)
ciao
Jason
>
>
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc Jason...@virgin.net wrote:
>
> : I maintain my original claim! I have kept Mollies in my FRESHWATER fish tanks
> : for about 18 years, with no problems! I can't ever remember one case where
> : Ich has affected them, even though some of the other fish may have got it!
>
> : ciao
>
> : Jason
>
Bigdogg
pregnant with her third batch.
Joewith...@school.com
Bigdogg wrote:
They loose some vigour with each batch! I only let her have 7!! The last
consisted of about 90 fry!
To keep a fish at its' strongest don't breed with it at all!
All the best and best of luck with your Mollies!
ciao
Jason
BINKS
>
>
>Bigdogg wrote:
>
>> 6-7 batches isnt a big number mine is a little over a year old and she is
>> pregnant with her third batch.
>>
>> >(She had about 6-7 batches!)
>
>They loose some vigour with each batch! I only let her have 7!! The last
>consisted of about 90 fry!
I'm curious, (and very new to all this), how do you stop them from
breeding.............
Allister
Das Fledermäuschen
> I'm curious, (and very new to all this), how do you stop
> them from breeding.............
> Get rid of the males? ;)
rabid feminist !-)
get rid of the females instead - they could have been fertilized
long ago (up to 3 months previously) !
<the feminist part is a joke!>
--
sciathán leathair ~..~
"i'm sure i smell a bat in here somewhere"
jason...@virgin.net
BINKS wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:37:15 +0000, Joewith...@school.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Bigdogg wrote:
> >
> >> 6-7 batches isnt a big number mine is a little over a year old and she is
> >> pregnant with her third batch.
> >>
> >> >(She had about 6-7 batches!)
> >
> >They loose some vigour with each batch! I only let her have 7!! The last
> >consisted of about 90 fry!
>