Help keep the web 'Toon' Free!
David Wisniewski
BRUCE R. FINKLER wrote:
>
> Do you have a cartoon related web page? you do?! good! Do you hate the
> word 'toon'. You do?! Only morons use the word 'toon'! So go to the "No
> 'toon' Website!" and put the no 'toon' sign on your page! Go now!
>
> "The No 'Toon' Website!"
> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/brucerf/notoon.htm
By virtue of using the "naughty" word in your pleading, and as the name of your
site, aren't you really saying that only you can break the "law" but others can not?
--
David Wisniewski **FOR SALE: EGW 38 Super Caspian w/ 8 mags**
davi...@erols.com USPSA/IPSC A-28835
BRUCE R. FINKLER
Nigel Mitchell
Speaking as someone who's running a cartoon-based webserial on his
website that is entitled "Toons," I guess I'm the kind of person this
guy hates. Apparently the fact that I'm a diehard animation fan who
just happens to like the shorthand term of "toon" makes me a moron.
Go figure.
>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<
zikzak23[at]pipeline[dot]com
To reply, replace the "at" and "dot" in the above
email address with appropriate symbols.
_________________________________________________
=Alternate Webserials - stories of scifi, cartoon comedy, and adventure
http://www.pipeline.com/~alterweb/serials.htm
=ERP Bridge - dedicated to the scifi TV series, "Sliders"
http://www.pipeline.com/~zikzak23/index.htm
>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<
Thomas E. Reed
> BRUCE R. FINKLER wrote:
> >
> > Do you have a cartoon related web page? you do?! good! Do you hate the
> > word 'toon'. You do?! Only morons use the word 'toon'! So go to the "No
> > 'toon' Website!" and put the no 'toon' sign on your page! Go now!
> >
> > "The No 'Toon' Website!"
First, I cut off most of the huge cross-posting list. Don't do that, Finkler.
Second, anything that makes animation more popular, that doesn't cost any
emotional or creative distress, is good. If the use of a word like "Toon"
opens up animation to non-fans, it is good. If it keeps animation from
becoming a closet, anal-retentive, ideologically-driven, one-upmanship
interest - like, say, anime - it is good.
Third, this screed is perilously close to the "subs vs. dubs war" that
made the anime newsgroups the bane of the Internet.
Look, I don't like the word "mic" on microphone input jacks. I would
rather they use the extra letter and label them "mike." But I don't waste
Web resources and people's time in a stupid war of labels.
Tom Reed says, SunQuest now has
a new web page address and new
stuff for gaming fans! Check out
http://www.sunquestgames.com
d.murray
In article <344567...@erols.com>, David Wisniewski
<davi...@erols.com> writes
>BRUCE R. FINKLER wrote:
>>
>> Do you have a cartoon related web page? you do?! good! Do you hate the
>> word 'toon'. You do?! Only morons use the word 'toon'! So go to the "No
>> 'toon' Website!" and put the no 'toon' sign on your page! Go now!
>>
>> "The No 'Toon' Website!"
>
>By virtue of using the "naughty" word in your pleading, and as the name of your
>site, aren't you really saying that only you can break the "law" but others can
>not?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. yawn, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I'm sure I will find a creative newsgroup one day . hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
D.Murray
UK FREE STUFF
www.busy.co.uk/ukfree
CURRICULUM VITAE
www.busy.co.uk/cv
Your talents will never be known unless you show them.
D.Murray 1997
ca...@netcom.ca
d.murray wrote:
>
> In article <344567...@erols.com>, David Wisniewski
> <davi...@erols.com> writes
> >BRUCE R. FINKLER wrote:
> >>
> >> Do you have a cartoon related web page? you do?! good! Do you hate the
> >> word 'toon'. You do?! Only morons use the word 'toon'! So go to the "No
> >> 'toon' Website!" and put the no 'toon' sign on your page! Go now!
> >>
> >> "The No 'Toon' Website!"
> >> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/brucerf/notoon.htm
> >
Hey I happen to like the word. Seems to me that people usually use the
word 'Toon' for cartoon characters and the word 'cartoon' for an
animated show. I'm glad animated characters have a word to mean them
then saying 'animated characters' all the time, and I can't wait for the
word 'Toon' to be in a dictionary. Just my 2 cents.
Spum
The word 'toon' is completely disgusting and patronizing. I can't believe
anyone would try to defend it. It conjures up associations with 'Animaniacs'
and 'Tiny Toons' and other modern TV crap.
beavers...@hotmail.com
In article <19971018011...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
Let's get a few things straight here: 1. The word "toon," in this
context, is a shortened version of "animated cartoon." As such it is no
more disgusting and patronizing than using "movie" instead of "moving
picture," or for that matter "flick" and "pic" instead of "movie." You
yourself say "TV" instead of "television," don't you? 2. There are two
meanings of the word "toon." The first one, which was the one from "Roger
Rabbit," refers to cartoon characters. It made sense in the context of
the film, because the "toons" were supposed to be a kind of separate race
and "toon" was the name given to them. Outside of the movie, the term
sounds a bit annoying. On the other hand, the term seems to have fallen
into disuse. Speaking for my area of expertise--Warners--the term "toon"
hasn't been used in a Warners cartoon since the first episode of
Animaniacs ("Three little toons acting like goons"). So 'taint much use
trying to get rid of something that seems to be dying out on its own. As
for the other meaning, wherein "toon" refers to an animated cartoon, as I
pointed out before it's no more objectionable than "movie." (I remember
one film critic who railed against the term "movie," pointing out that
you don't call an architect an "archie" or a painting a "paintie." But
hey...) And as far as I'm concerned it derives not from "Roger Rabbit"
(after all, Roger is referred to as a "toon" who makes "cartoons," not
"'toons") but from TERRYTOONS, since to call the latest Heckle n' Jeckle
a Terrytoon implies that it is a TOON by TERRY. In any case, "Toon" is no
more silly or patronizing than, say, "Cartune." 4. All this controversy
over an innocent bit of slang. Honestly. Geez, what'll you do when
Ebonics becomes the second official language of the U.S.?
Bilingually from Canada, Jaime J. Weinman "We accept. To accept is to
yield. To yield is to allow oncoming traffic the right of way." --
Yakko & Dot Warner
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Stephen W. Worth
Re: People objecting to all animated cartoons as "Toons"
In article <8772920...@dejanews.com>, beavers...@hotmail.com wrote:
> 1. The word "toon," in this
> context, is a shortened version of "animated cartoon." As such it is no
> more disgusting and patronizing than using "movie" instead of "moving
> picture," or for that matter "flick" and "pic" instead of "movie."
"Movie" and "Flick" came into common use the normal way... through
people coining the words. "Toon" was created as part of the Roger
Rabbit movie. The marketing and licensing for that film forced the
word into common usage by repeating it in all of their advertising.
I personally don't like words that are created to sell a product
like this... I don't refer to McDonalds as "Mickey Dees" and even
as a kid I thought the way the word "supercalifragilstic" was used
in promoting Mary Poppins was pretty dumb. I consider terms like
"Generation X" and "Yuppies" to be marketing terms as well. You're
welcome to use them, but don't try to refer to me as one or expect
me to be impressed by your point if you use those terms.
People may refer to all photocopying machines as "Xerox machines",
but ask a Cannon dealer or repairman if he uses the term. He'll
tell you the same thing I'm telling you... It's a brand name, not
a word. When it's your business, you don't like folks referring
to your work by the competition's brand name.
> 2. There are two
> meanings of the word "toon." The first one, which was the one from "Roger
> Rabbit," refers to cartoon characters. It made sense in the context of
> the film, because the "toons" were supposed to be a kind of separate race
> and "toon" was the name given to them.
I have no objection to the word being used in the context of the
Roger Rabbit films.
> As for the other meaning, wherein "toon" refers to an animated cartoon,
> as far as I'm concerned it derives not from "Roger Rabbit" but from
> TERRYTOONS, since to call the latest Heckle n' Jeckle a Terrytoon
> implies that it is a TOON by TERRY. In any case, "Toon" is no
> more silly or patronizing than, say, "Cartune."
Actually, the word "Tune" has much more meaning to animated
cartoons than does "Toon". When sound was introduced in the late
twenties, musical references in the titles were used to indicate
that the cartoons were "talkies" (a term which didn't really
relate to animation, because animated characters did a lot more
dancing and singing than talking at that time...) Disney created
the "Silly Symphonies" to indicate that high class orchestral
music accompanied his cartoons... Walter Lantz had jazzy "Swing
Symphonies", Warners had its "Loony Tunes and Merrie Melodies",
and Harman and Ising were lucky enough to be themselves...
"Harman-Ising". "Cartune" was also used quite a bit as a generic
reference to sound cartoons.
Paul Terry cartoons were not called "Terrytoons" until they
went to sound. The word "Terrytoons" is a combination of Terry's
name, and the words "cartoon" and "tune". "Terrytoons" literally
meant "a sound cartoon by Paul Terry". Once silent cartoons
died, the reference became more oblique and people assumed, as
you did, that Terrytoons was short for Terry Cartoons. But in
the forties, if you referred to other cartoons as "Toons" that
would be as odd to the ear as referring to a restaurant as a
"Straunt".
In my travels, I've seen a lot of writing on animation from
the thirties and forties. I have only once seen the word "Toon"
used... and that was in a union newsletter headline that was
aping the headlines in Variety and the Reporter... The exact
reference was referring to the Iwerks Studio as the "Iwerks
Toon Fac" (Cartoon Factory). I have to assume that the use in
that case was simply the clever "Hollywood abbreviated-speak"
of the time. Otherwise it would have shown up in other writings.
I really don't think the word "Toon" as we now know it existed
before Roger Rabbit.
4. All this controversy
> over an innocent bit of slang. Honestly. Geez, what'll you do when
> Ebonics becomes the second official language of the U.S.?
Don't get me started on that one!! <heheh!>
See ya!
Steve
See ya!
Steve Worth
big...@spumco.com
%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%
Visit Spumco's Wonderful World of Cartoons:
http://www.spumco.com
and our newsgroup: alt.animation.spumco
%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%
Stephen W. Worth
In article <tomreed-1610...@pm4-11.sundial.net>,
tom...@sundial.net (Thomas E. Reed) wrote:
> Second, anything that makes animation more popular, that doesn't cost any
> emotional or creative distress, is good. If the use of a word like "Toon"
> opens up animation to non-fans, it is good.
They used to say that Liberace was good for classical music
because he opened up classical music to an audience that never
would have heard it otherwise.
Interestingly enough, whenever I rummage through records at a
garage sale and there are Liberace records in the stack, I can
usually be safe in assuming that there won't be any Horowitz,
Heifetz or Rubenstein records in the batch!
But there might be some good Lawrence Welks on the Coral label...
heh-heh-heh!
PHILIP ARMSTROMG
I could be wrong here, but I always assumed the coinage of the term
'Toon' for the cartoon beings in the Roger Rabbit movie was intended to
be a discriminatory term, sounding as it does like a certain highly
offensive racist term of abuse once in wider usage; thereby reinforcing
the climate of discrimination. (cf. Valient's oft repeated statement
that he hates Toons - until he gets to know a few, thereby breaking down
his prejudice)
chance
On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:29:02 -0700, big...@spumco.com (Stephen W. Worth)
wrote:
[]They used to say that Liberace was good for classical music
[]because he opened up classical music to an audience that never
[]would have heard it otherwise.
[]
[]Interestingly enough, whenever I rummage through records at a
[]garage sale and there are Liberace records in the stack, I can
[]usually be safe in assuming that there won't be any Horowitz,
[]Heifetz or Rubenstein records in the batch!
Hmmm. There might be some sort of wider truth represented here.
Whenever I come across someone's collection of "Ren & Stimpy" tapes
at those self-same garage sales, I seldom find "Allegro non Troppo",
"Fantasia" or "Gulliver's Travels".
[]But there might be some good Lawrence Welks on the Coral label...
...and the odd "George Liquor" doll. Some of which even talk.
[]heh-heh-heh!
chance (equally "heh-heh-heh!" in what I think was a really measured
response to what sounded suspiciously like elitism and snobbery...
fortunately I've read enough of SW's comments to know better!)
Stephen W. Worth
In article <344B75...@hotmail.com>, "Jaime J. Weinman"
<beavers...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> But the one point you're not addressing is that nowhere in "Roger
> Rabbit" was the word "toon" used to refer to cartoons, as opposed to
> cartoon characters. Thus the "zippy Disney brand name" usage is ONLY the
> use of "toon" to refer to cartoon CHARACTERS.
Neither usage existed to any great extent before Roger Rabbit.
The second usage is simply a mutation of the meaning based on
the first.
Juan F. Lara
In article <344b8ecb....@news.lynx.bc.ca>,
chance <timbe...@lynx.bc.ca> wrote:
>Hmmm. There might be some sort of wider truth represented here.
>
>Whenever I come across someone's collection of "Ren & Stimpy" tapes
>at those self-same garage sales, I seldom find "Allegro non Troppo",
>"Fantasia" or "Gulliver's Travels".
Well...but you probably would find plenty of Bugs Bunny and Tex Avery
tapes. :-)
- Juan F. Lara, just kidding around. :-)
"I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT!"
[ Wham! ]
"He got it."
timbe...@lynx.bc.ca
In article <62his6$9...@piglet.cc.utexas.edu>,
j...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Juan F. Lara) wrote:
>
> In article <344b8ecb....@news.lynx.bc.ca>,
> chance <timbe...@lynx.bc.ca> wrote:
> >Hmmm. There might be some sort of wider truth represented here.
> >
> >Whenever I come across someone's collection of "Ren & Stimpy" tapes
> >at those self-same garage sales, I seldom find "Allegro non Troppo",
> >"Fantasia" or "Gulliver's Travels".
Jfl:
> Well...but you probably would find plenty of Bugs Bunny and Tex Avery
> tapes. :-)
Sure. "Wacky Adventures of Tex Avery", perhaps.... <wolfgrin>
> - Juan F. Lara, just kidding around. :-)
chance (who loves tuggin' Spumtail. Hey guys, where's them
"Ranger Smith" shorts we've all been a-waitin' for??
At least Heyward gets something to market! <goodnatured
dig only>)
Mark Wilkins
Stephen W. Worth wrote:
> In article <344B75...@hotmail.com>, "Jaime J. Weinman"
> <beavers...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But the one point you're not addressing is that nowhere in "Roger
> > Rabbit" was the word "toon" used to refer to cartoons, as opposed to
> > cartoon characters. Thus the "zippy Disney brand name" usage is ONLY the
> > use of "toon" to refer to cartoon CHARACTERS.
>
> Neither usage existed to any great extent before Roger Rabbit.
> The second usage is simply a mutation of the meaning based on
> the first.
Note that Softimage's traditional animation software is called "Toonz,"
and if "toon" were so strongly identified with Roger Rabbit that would
be a very odd choice for their product name.
I don't speak for Disney, of course!
-- Mark
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilkins Walt Disney Feature Animation
mark_wilkins @fa.disney.com Burbank, CA
Kirk Wise
Stephen W. Worth wrote:
>
> Re: People objecting to all animated cartoons as "Toons"
> I personally don't like words that are created to sell a product
> like this...
I don't refer to McDonalds as "Mickey Dees"
My African-American classmates at CalArts were calling it
"Mickey D's" back in '81. A full 17 years before that
campaign appeared. Only recently did McDonald's appropriate
this bit of slang into their advertising in an effort to
look more "urban" and "hip".
> People may refer to all photocopying machines as "Xerox machines",
> but ask a Cannon dealer or repairman if he uses the term. He'll
> tell you the same thing I'm telling you... It's a brand name, not
> a word. When it's your business, you don't like folks referring
> to your work by the competition's brand name.
>
So I assume you always ask for a "sterile adhesive bandage"
rather than a Band-Aid(tm) when you get caught in your
"toothed metal trouser fastener" or, as it's more commonly
called, your Zipper(tm). ;)
(Just yankin' your chain, Steve.)
kw.
ad...@interlog.com
Kirk Wise wrote:
Have a Coke. So what if it's Pepsi, or RC, or Sam's Choice...
Jay Pennington
Kirk Wise <Kirk...@fa.disney.com> wrote:
>My African-American classmates at CalArts were calling it
>"Mickey D's" back in '81. A full 17 years before that
>campaign appeared. Only recently did McDonald's appropriate
>this bit of slang into their advertising in an effort to
>look more "urban" and "hip".
There was an early '80's ad that *did* use the term, but it came from
the lips of an African-American character in the commercial, and not a
narrator.
But I also cringe when colloquial versions of "actual" resturant names
become "official", like "HoJo's" appearing on signs outside Howard
Johnson's. <shudder>
"and now, back to our topic."
or not. :)
-Jay Pennington
data...@Iavoidspamjax-inter.net
(remove "Iavoidspam" from address when emailing)
========================
See the Star Wars Special Edition FAQs in Treadwell's Techdome!
http://www.jax-inter.net/users/datalore/starwars/
========================
"But Louanne, that movie's got bad words and adult situations."
"Not any more. I rented it at Blockbuster."
King of the Hill
April 13, 1997