Ethical Fur-New Zealand Possum!
Ricky
etc-Try New Zealand possum! This animal was introduced into NZ the
century before last and has devastated native forests and wildlife.It is
entirely ethical to use NZ possum(Trichosurus Vulpecula) You would be
helping poor communities get an income and also help control one of NZ's
greatest ecological threats! Traps are opened daily-many are now instant
killers-and when the possum is dispatched I can assure you they die
quicker than when they are shot!(Having seen a possum survive 3 bullet
wounds to the head while watching a hunt I am not in favour of this
method!)
Ricky
>
> >
> >Like fur- but disgusted by endangered animals being used for coats
> >etc-Try New Zealand possum!
>
> garment industry.
> And the issue we discuss most often has to do with the use of ANY animal, let
> alone endangered.
>
> Wayne Langman
> Langman's Wildlife Services
> Serving Indiana since 1968
I don't know about the Us but you have never seen snow leopard
coats?-get real!-(and I thought I was supporting at least one small
ethical aspect of the fur trade!
SGTWAL
>I don't know about the Us but you have never seen snow leopard
>coats?-get real!-(and I thought I was supporting at least one small
>ethical aspect of the fur trade!
CITES controls trade in endangered species and "look alikes" . A snow
leopard coat , made from a real pelt, would be confiscated at the first customs
shed it passed through and destroyed. The importer fined and the supplier would
lose all their import opportunities as every shipment there after would be
heavily checked.
As to getting real I suggest you learn more about the existing laws and
their provisions before jumping in. Should you have personel knowledge of such
trafficing in these pelts I suggest you contact your local customs and have
action taken.
Yes the US is different. We are a nation of laws, maybe too many laws, but
we are all tasked to support and enforce them. The idea that trafficing in
endangered species could openly take place here is at best hard to believe.
There are far too many who take interest in such things for such activities to
survive.
The Ethics of the fur trade are based on a level of respect between
ourselves and the wildlife we trap. We do not traffic in endangered species as
this is self defeating. We do not over trap for the same reasons. We do not
foster or condone unecessary suffering or abuse of the animals we harvest. And
we do not waste what we catch, in that we market every possible part we can and
make only sets that minumise non-fur catches.
A trafficer in such pelts as you discribe is a poacher. And while he may
trap his catch he is not a trapper.
Ricky
of customs as an entry point-many smugglers bypass these anyway-also a
lot of live animals for example are smuggled into the US and traded
despite CITES-e.g New Caledonian Geckos which are protected.I didn't
state that a majority of fur pelts was from endangered animals-I am not
expert on fur or even totally against its use as my post shows- however
there is some endangered fur especially being traded on the Asian
market.One hopes with the advent of Viagra that tigers may suffer less
poaching.Synthetic products have their costs and I suppose a truly
sustainably trapped forest with humane trapping is preferable to having
same forest removed and a synthetic fiber plant in its place.I
reiterate-NZ possum is entirely and utterly ethical from every
viewpoint!Buy it!
Marika E. Buchberger
Except from the point of view of the Possum.
Ricky wrote:
> I reiterate-NZ possum is entirely and utterly ethical from every
> viewpoint!Buy it!
--
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THREETOE7
>
>Ricky wrote:
>
>> I reiterate-NZ possum is entirely and utterly ethical from every
>> viewpoint!Buy it!
Although not an expert on NZ possum, from what I have read, they are a serious
problem and will be controlled. That said, Marika, is it wrong to utilize an
animal that is already dead from a control project?3T
Marika E. Buchberger
Well, answer me one question: does the NZ-Possum have any natural enemies and if
yes, why have they not been introduced in an effort to bring about "natural"
control.
THREETOE7 wrote:
--
THREETOE7
>if
>yes, why have they not been introduced in an effort to bring about "natural"
>control.
>
From the original post, the NZ possum is an introduced specie. I don't know
what the natural predators are in New Z. I do know that introduced species
often cause problems with the natural wildlife and presonally believe that we
have harmed the balance of natureby these introductions. It was short sighted
to introduce the possum and is short sighted to introduce a natural enemy to
control the possum. I believe that I read somewhere that toxicants are used to
control the NZ possum, but what I wanted to know is: do you think it is alright
to utilize an animal that is killed in a control project. I am interested in
other views an think it gives me an insight into the organizations that I
firmly believe hurt wildlife in general.3T
Marika E. Buchberger
In a control project, no.
I only accept fur or leather under one condition: if the animal is slaughtered for
its' meat you can then use the fur or leather for your personal goods, belts,
coats, whatever. Therefore, I have no problem with cowhide but since I've never
noticed mink on a menu I have a problem with mink being used in coats or whatever.
Is possum tasty? If you are going to shoot the possum, and eat the meat, then I
would say you can use it's fur/hide for your personal goods. If you are poisoning
the possum, it will suffer no doubt to some extent before it dies, you won't be
able to eat it's meat and I suspect the fur/hide may not be very in good shape
either as the poison will no doubt react with the skin and continue to react even
after the animal is long dead. Therefore, I'm not sure if a poisoned possum would
be a source for a good fur/hide.
Why were the possum introduced in the first place?
THREETOE7 wrote:
--
Ricky
by some 19th century idiot. It is trapped,poisoned and shot as it is
considered public enemy mumero uno to our country's native forests -some
plants such as the Northern Rata are seriously in danger of extinction
due to it.It has been videod eating rare native birds and their eggs and
young dispelling notions of it being only a frugivore.It is a carrier of
Bovine TB and Leptospirosis.It can be farmed to be eaten(some Asian
countries import it as Kiwi Bear!)but wild caught/shot specimens are
likely to be diseased reducing its use as a foodstuff.Poisoning is used
in the more ravaged regions but not without debate as some believe this
kills native birds and reptiles although much debate arises still over
this.There are well over 60 million of them covering much of the country
and due to the absence of any natural predators they are increasing
still in number and breeding twice the rate they do in their native
Australia (where they are rightfully protected).NZ's spectacular,
unique,endangered Flora and Fauna are becoming rarer and rarer due to
the ravages of these and the introduced rats,ferrets and stoats(Possums
are bigger than these and only occassionaly will even their young be
killed by feral cats which are also a problem. We have had them living
in our chimney,urinating profusely on our roof,ravaging the fruit trees.
Anyone who seriously suggests that their control is undesirable is
willing to accept the certain extinction of many species of plants and
native wildlife.For those squeamish about killing animals-ie those who
have never lived on a farm or in a rural setting they are trialling a
biological contraceptive method of control but this is years away from
implementing and probably won't succeed in entirety anyway due to the
rugged terrain and other factors.There is absolutely no legitimate
argument for their protection in New Zealand. Buy NZ possum skins help
NZ ecology!
THREETOE7
>be a source for a good fur/hide.
>
>Why were the possum introduced in the first place?
I read the following post by a far better informed posted than I. Thanks for
your response.What solution do you offer to NZ's possum problem? Let them
destroy the habitat? Poison them and let the animals rot? Don't just complain,
offer a solution.3T
Marika E. Buchberger
Previously, someone had mentioned that the possum are infected with Tuberculosis
and other apparently infectious diseases. Since it was recently shown and proven
that Tuberculosis CAN transfer from a dead corpse to a live human, are YOU willing
to take the risk of harvesting fur/hide from a diseased but dead animal?
How to kill them? The most humane way possible. Rifle would be my choice. But
the disposal of the potentially diseased corpse(s) is the key question here I
think. Since they harbor disease that CAN transmit to humans, I think
incineration of the entire corpse including the fur/hide is in order. In other
words, there seems to be no profit worth threatening your own health over in this
particular venture.
THREETOE7 wrote:
--
Jon Inge Bragstad
<M_E...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Well, answer me one question: does the NZ-Possum have any natural enemies and if
>yes, why have they not been introduced in an effort to bring about "natural"
>control.
I believe there are more than enough introduced species in NZ as it
is...
------------- Jon Inge Bragstad --------------
-------- Visit Jonis Huntingpages. -----------
-- http://home.sol.no/~sbragsta/hunters.htm --
------- Member of the Hunting Trail. ---------
Jon Inge Bragstad
<M_E...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>In a control project, no.
>
>I only accept fur or leather under one condition: if the animal is slaughtered for
>its' meat you can then use the fur or leather for your personal goods, belts,
>coats, whatever. Therefore, I have no problem with cowhide but since I've never
>noticed mink on a menu I have a problem with mink being used in coats or whatever.
Well, I guess the alternative to mink/fox farming is dumping the waste
from slaughterhouses (or processing plants which probably is the
politically correct name for it...) somewhere...
>Is possum tasty? If you are going to shoot the possum, and eat the meat, then I
>would say you can use it's fur/hide for your personal goods. If you are poisoning
>the possum, it will suffer no doubt to some extent before it dies, you won't be
>able to eat it's meat and I suspect the fur/hide may not be very in good shape
>either as the poison will no doubt react with the skin and continue to react even
>after the animal is long dead. Therefore, I'm not sure if a poisoned possum would
>be a source for a good fur/hide.
What are you talking about ? Poison - what do you mean by that. Much
of the poison used is anasthetics in overdose-levels. Why should that
damage the fur/hide ?
Marika E. Buchberger
Jon, are you saying that the folks who are working on this possum project are catching
these animals and giving them anesthesia? I don't think so. I suspect what's
happening is that the animal is being fed poison bait.
Jon Inge Bragstad wrote:
>
> What are you talking about ? Poison - what do you mean by that. Much
> of the poison used is anasthetics in overdose-levels. Why should that
> damage the fur/hide ?
>
> ------------- Jon Inge Bragstad --------------
> -------- Visit Jonis Huntingpages. -----------
> -- http://home.sol.no/~sbragsta/hunters.htm --
> ------- Member of the Hunting Trail. ---------
--
Marika E. Buchberger
When I mean humane kill using a rifle, I mean a shot to the heart, not the head.
Ricky wrote:
> > >
> > > How to kill them? The most humane way possible. Rifle would be my choice. But
> > >
> No shooting is not in my opinion the most humane as thay have small
> brains and can survive headshots.The most humane are the instant death
> electrical traps found around farms.Most trappers also can dispatch a
> possum with a blow to the head instantly.
Marika E. Buchberger
Ricky wrote:
>
> I probably overstated the prevalence of such disease
but then again, you might be right on the money when you stated the prevalence of the
disease, and I'm wondering how many trappers would be willing to take the risk knowing
it exists.
> -like most wild
> animals(many other pelt producers)possums can carry disease-Trappers
> with a knowledge of their local possum populations would know if such
> were likely to be infected-anyway what about the tanning procedures?
I'm no expert on tanning, but I've been told that the chemicals used are highly toxic
and highly polluting to the environment. This is assuming of course, you are not using
natural based dyes and substances but are instead, using the usual noxious chemicals.
Hopefully, if trappers are doing their own tanning, they are reading directions
carefully and following precautionary statements as well.
> New
> Zealand is particularly aware of disease as it is a foot and mouth and
> BSE free country-almost paranoid about any disease risk.From what I know
> areas with bovine TB
Tuberculosis is spread by "aerosol" transmission. It's an airborne infection, in other
words, and it's HIGHLY contagious.
> risk are documented and poisoning keeps this in
> check.I wouldn't personally want to eat possum although I know of many
> who do with no apparent ill effect.
Assuming of course, the folks who do eat possum know for a fact that it didn't die by
poisoning.
Ricky
>
> Previously, someone had mentioned that the possum are infected with Tuberculosis
> and other apparently infectious diseases. Since it was recently shown and proven
> that Tuberculosis CAN transfer from a dead corpse to a live human, are YOU willing
> to take the risk of harvesting fur/hide from a diseased but dead animal?
>
> think. Since they harbor disease that CAN transmit to humans, I think
> incineration of the entire corpse including the fur/hide is in order. In other
> words, there seems to be no profit worth threatening your own health over in this
> particular venture.
>
> THREETOE7 wrote:
>
> > >be a source for a good fur/hide.
> >
animals(many other pelt producers)possums can carry disease-Trappers
with a knowledge of their local possum populations would know if such
Zealand is particularly aware of disease as it is a foot and mouth and
BSE free country-almost paranoid about any disease risk.From what I know
Ricky
> > How to kill them? The most humane way possible. Rifle would be my choice. But
> >
Caroline Crell
Jon Inge Bragstad <siv...@online.no> wrote in message
news:38a1513...@news1.online.no...
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:58:25 -0500, "Marika E. Buchberger"
> <M_E...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >In a control project, no.
> >
> >I only accept fur or leather under one condition: if the animal is
slaughtered for
> >its' meat you can then use the fur or leather for your personal goods,
belts,
> >coats, whatever. Therefore, I have no problem with cowhide but since
I've never
> >noticed mink on a menu I have a problem with mink being used in coats or
whatever.
>
> Well, I guess the alternative to mink/fox farming is dumping the waste
> from slaughterhouses (or processing plants which probably is the
> politically correct name for it...) somewhere...
>
> >Is possum tasty? If you are going to shoot the possum, and eat the meat,
then I
> >would say you can use it's fur/hide for your personal goods. If you are
poisoning
> >the possum, it will suffer no doubt to some extent before it dies, you
won't be
> >able to eat it's meat and I suspect the fur/hide may not be very in good
shape
> >either as the poison will no doubt react with the skin and continue to
react even
possum would
> >be a source for a good fur/hide.
>
smiley492
Marika E. Buchberger <M_E...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:38A1F2AB...@prodigy.net...
> Tuberculosis is spread by "aerosol" transmission. It's an airborne
infection, in other
> words, and it's HIGHLY contagious.
I believe that bovine TB is not contagous to humans but I am not sure.
Furthermore if they need to be killed get a hepa particulate mask which
filters out the airborn parcticles.
smiley
Jon Inge Bragstad
<M_E...@prodigy.net> wrote:
<snip>
>I'm no expert on tanning, but I've been told that the chemicals used are highly toxic
>and highly polluting to the environment. This is assuming of course, you are not using
>natural based dyes and substances but are instead, using the usual noxious chemicals.
>Hopefully, if trappers are doing their own tanning, they are reading directions
>carefully and following precautionary statements as well.
I'm not sure what the commercial companies use, but one of the firms
over here use some natural stuff - it's supposed to be a portugese
method. They make the best furs/hides in the country, its said.
Haven't sent anything there yet.
The common method to use over here for the "amateurs", is alun, salt
and water for the tanning process, and glucosis (I believe) to make
the skin soft afterwards.
Another point is waste disposal - at least over here the regulations
are so strict that anyone trying to send out a drop of chemicals into
a stream or lake is fined at best, or put away for some time it
they're really "lucky"...
Marika E. Buchberger
AHHHHHHH....but I'm not worried about the pelt.....
Ricky wrote:
> Marika E. Buchberger wrote:
> >
> > When I mean humane kill using a rifle, I mean a shot to the heart, not the head.
>
> Brilliant-you have just ruined the pelt!
> Sorry but this method is only feasible as a control method rather than
> as a fur use method.
Jon Inge Bragstad
<M_E...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>AHHHHHHH....but I'm not worried about the pelt.....
So your solution is instead of just wasting the meat and utilizing the
fur, waste everything !!!
Great...
Marika E. Buchberger
They are sick, diseased animals. Perhaps you would feed the meat of a
sick animal to a family member?
Jon Inge Bragstad wrote:
--
Ricky
Ricky
Ricky
> poisoning.
>
> --
> *
*******************************************************************
examined!These people would have trapped or shot the possums in
question-My worry was more the relative tastelessness and toughness
apparently.
THREETOE7
>> THREETOE7 wrote:
>>
>> > >Therefore, I'm not sure if a poisoned possum would
>> > >be a source for a good fur/hide.
A couple of points here. First, I didn't write the above. Depending on the
toxicant used, the fur would be fine as would the meat, presuming it is fit to
eat in the first place, if the carcass was found before decay set in.
Commenting on other posts, a shot to the heart with a .22 rimfire will not hurt
the fur value. I do want to add that certain toxicants have secondary poisoning
effects, so don't eat an animal that died from something that you are not sure
of.3T