Where Religion Lies In Ruins - The Most Atheist Region Of The Most Atheist Nation
Sound of Trumpet
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2348655/posts
Where religion lies in ruins [Czech Republic's most atheist region]
The Telegraph ^ | 9/25/2009 | AFP reporter
Posted on 26 September 2009 07:26:14 by bruinbirdman
Pope Benedict XVI will not visit the Czech Republic's most atheist
region
Only a large wooden cross resists the ravages of time in a church with
a collapsed roof and walls overgrown by wild bushes in the small
village of Zlovedice.
The neglected village and its dilapidated sanctuary lie in northern
Bohemia, the most atheist region in the generally secular Czech
Republic, where religion was crushed during World War II and under
more than 40 years of Communist rule.
"When I came to Zlovedice for the first time, a woman told me: 'It's
been 40 years since I last saw a priest'," said friar Josef Cermak.
During his visit to the Czech Republic Saturday to Monday, Pope
Benedict XVI will stop in Prague, Brno and Stara Boleslav, but not in
this borderland region formerly known as the "Sudetenland", once
inhabited mostly by ethnic Germans who were forced to leave their
homes after World War II.
"But it is not a God-forsaken region at all," Cermak insists.
"I am proof of this. I'm here, I live with the people," says the
modest 57-year-old friar, who oversees 17 parishes from his seat in
Kadan, about 100 kilometres (60 miles) north-west of Prague.
But he is quick to point out that some of the parishes exist only "on
paper" since many of them were located in deserted villages that have
long disappeared from the vast military area surrounding the region.
Religious belief found itself in steady decline in the region
following the expulsion of German-born Catholics and then because of
the policy of the 1948-89 Czechoslovak Communist regime, which
labelled the Church the people's enemy.
Jana Michalkova, spokeswoman for the diocese in Litomerice - a town
about 80 kilometres (50 miles) north of Prague - says about half of
the 1,135 churches and chapels in the area are in very poor condition.
"The work of clerics here is much more difficult compared to other
parts of the country such as the strongly Catholic southern Moravia,"
she said.
"They have to move a lot to be with their parishioners. Sometimes they
serve a mass for just one or two people," added Michalkova.
She said the "intentional liquidation of the Church and its
institutions by the former Communist regime" was one of the reasons
behind the current situation.
The social and economic conditions in the region have also
deteriorated since the fall of Communism in 1989.
The region flourished under communism owing to a fast-growing heavy
industrial sector and coal mining, but once the state economy
collapsed unemployment spiked.
Despite the pitiful condition of St Michael's church in Zlovedice,
friar Cermak regularly goes there on Good Friday and Christmas Eve "to
pray", as he says, after celebrating a Sunday mass with about 20
mostly elderly believers in Mastov, another village in the region,
with a population of 725.
The Mastov church bears the name of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary
- a feast that is celebrated with pomp in neighbouring Austria, Poland
and Slovakia on December 8, while in the Czech Republic it is
practically unknown.
A majority 59 percent of Czechs did not identify with any religion in
the last census in 2001, up from 39 per bcent a decade earlier.
Meanwhile, the percentage of believers tumbled from 43.9 percent to
32.2 percent between 1991 and 2001, according to figures from the
Czech Statistical Office.
But ecclesiastic circles say the data is imprecise, and insist instead
that the actual number of people professing to belong to a faith in
the 10.2 million-strong Czech Republic is significantly higher.
"According to our statistics, the number of Catholics in our diocese
comprising 10 vicarages reaches 280,000 and remains practically
unchanged, while the number announced by the statistical office was
160,000," said Michalkova.
fasgnadh
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2348655/posts
>
> Where religion lies in ruins [Czech Republic's most atheist region]
The Czech Republic is not the most Atheist Nation, it is majority religious:
Czech Republic: Aheist 39.8%, Roman Catholic 39.2%, Protestant 4.6%,
Orthodox 3%, other 13.4%
North Korea is the most atheist Nation: "autonomous religious
activities now almost nonexistent; government-sponsored
religious groups exist to provide illusion of religious freedom."
Like EVERY atheist state, it's a totalitarian shithole!
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Mitchell Holman
4f53-8b57-6...@15g2000yqy.googlegroups.com:
>
> 'It's been 40 years since I last saw a priest',"
A remarked echoed by thousands of victims of pedophile priests.
Mitchell Holman
news:poeJm.52948$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
> Sound of Trumpet wrote Most Atheist Region Of The Most Atheist
> Nation:
>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2348655/posts
>>
>> Where religion lies in ruins [Czech Republic's most atheist region]
>
>
> The Czech Republic is not the most Atheist Nation, it is majority
> religious:
>
>
> Czech Republic: Aheist 39.8%, Roman Catholic 39.2%, Protestant 4.6%,
> Orthodox 3%, other 13.4%
>
> North Korea is the most atheist Nation: "autonomous religious
> activities now almost nonexistent; government-sponsored
> religious groups exist to provide illusion of religious freedom."
>
> Like EVERY atheist state, it's a totalitarian shithole!
If only it had an Official religion, like say Iran or
Afghanistan or Haiti.
Boo Radley
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote in message
news:c9334e6a-e99d-4f53...@15g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
> 'It's been 40 years since I last saw a priest',"
The Opening line of the introduction for 90% of the recovering victims of
child molestation.
(�`�.�Craig Chilton�.���) <www.LayoffRemedy.com>
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> [Sound of Stupidity] wrote:
>> Where religion lies in ruins
>> Pope Benedict XVI's arrival in the Czech Republic
>> on Monday will mean little to inhabitants of northern
>> Bohemia, the country's most atheist region.
>>
>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2348655/posts --
Only a large wooden cross resists the ravages of time in a church
with a collapsed roof and walls overgrown by wild bushes in the small
village of Zlovedice.
The neglected village and its dilapidated sanctuary lie in northern
Bohemia, the most atheist region in the generally secular Czech Republic,
where religion was crushed during World War II and under more than 40
years of Communist rule.
"When I came to Zlovedice for the first time, a woman told me: 'It's
been 40 years since I last saw a priest'," said friar Josef Cermak.
During his visit to the Czech Republic Saturday to Monday, Pope
Benedict XVI will stop in Prague, Brno and Stara Boleslav, but not in this
borderland region formerly known as the "Sudetenland", once inhabited
mostly by ethnic Germans who were forced to leave their homes after
World War II.
"But it is not a God-forsaken region at all," Cermak insists.
"I am proof of this. I'm here, I live with the people," says the modest
57-year-old friar, who oversees 17 parishes from his seat in Kadan,
about 100 kilometres (60 miles) northwest of Prague.
But he is quick to point out that some of the parishes exist only "on
paper" since many of them were located in deserted villages that have
long disappeared from the vast military area surrounding the region.
Religious belief found itself in steady decline in the region following the
expulsion of German-born Catholics and then because of the policy of
the 1948-89 Czechoslovak Communist regime, which labelled the Church
the people's enemy.
Jana Michalkova, spokeswoman for the diocese in Litomerice -- a town
about 80 kilometres (50 miles) north of Prague -- says about half of the
1,135 churches and chapels in the area are in very poor condition.
"The work of clerics here is much more difficult compared to other parts of
the country such as the strongly Catholic southern Moravia," she said.
"They have to move a lot to be with their parishioners. Sometimes they
serve a mass for just one or two people," added Michalkova. She said the
"intentional liquidation of the Church and its institutions by the former
Communist regime" was one of the reasons behind the current situation.
The social and economic conditions in the region have also deteriorated
since the fall of Communism in 1989.
The region flourished under communism owing to a fast-growing heavy
industrial sector and coal mining, but once the state economy collapsed
unemployment spiked.
Despite the pitiful condition of St Michael's church in Zlovedice,
friar Cermak regularly goes there on Good Friday and Christmas Eve
"to pray", as he says, after celebrating a Sunday mass with about 20
mostly elderly believers in Mastov, another village in the region, with a
population of 725.
The Mastov church bears the name of the Assumption of the Virgin
Mary -- a feast that is celebrated with pomp in neighbouring Austria,
Poland and Slovakia on December 8, while in the Czech Republic it is
practically unknown.
A majority 59 percent of Czechs did not identify with any religion in
the last census in 2001, up from 39 per bcent a decade earlier.
Meanwhile, the percentage of believers tumbled from 43.9 percent
to 32.2 percent between 1991 and 2001, according to figures from
the Czech Statistical Office.
But ecclesiastic circles say the data is imprecise, and insist instead
that the actual number of people professing to belong to a faith in the
10.2 million-strong Czech Republic is significantly higher.
"According to our statistics, the number of Catholics in our diocese
comprising 10 vicarages reaches 280,000 and remains practically un-
changed, while the number announced by the statistical office was
160,000," said Michalkova.
> The Czech Republic is not the most Atheist Nation, it is majority
> religious:
>
> Czech Republic: Aheist 39.8%, Roman Catholic 39.2%,
> Protestant 4.6%, Orthodox 3%, other 13.4%
Interesting! Per your stats just now, MORE people there are
smart enough to REJECT the phony, dogma-infested RCC Cult in
favor of being atheists instead!
As a NORMAL (non-cultic, non-fanatical) Christian, I applaud
that! I have a friend living in NYC who lived in Prague for 4 months,
and would have moved there if not for the fact that New York is
equally attractive to him. NOW I see a major probable reason for
his enjoying Prague so much. He's highly-intelligent -- and he at
last had found himself immersed in a region having a HIGH percent-
age of very intelligent people!
I've been all over Europe (11 trips there), but have missed
seeing the Czech Republic every time. THAT will definitely change
on my next trip. It sounds FASCINATING!!!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
��� Rest in Peace ���
��� George Richard Tiller, MD ���
��� A True American HERO! ���
��� August 8, 1941 � May 31, 2009 ���
��� Visit -- http://iamdrtiller.com ���
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
-- Craig Chilton <xana...@mchsi.com>
www.LayoffRemedy.com -- Unemployment Solution!
www.ChristianEgalitarian.com -- Fight the RRR Cult!
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Tactics: Defending Human Rights
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Exposing RRR Bigotry
www.shadowandillusion.com -- Learn "The LOPAQUA Secret!"
www.TravelForPay.org -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL!
Jimbo
wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2348655/posts
>
> Where religion lies in ruins [Czech Republic's most atheist region]
>
> The Telegraph ^ | 9/25/2009 | AFP reporter
>
> Posted on 26 September 2009 07:26:14 by bruinbirdman
>
> Pope Benedict XVI will not visit the Czech Republic's most atheist
> region
>
Good. Who wants a NAZI in their country anyway?
LC
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote in message
news:c9334e6a-e99d-4f53...@15g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
> Pope Benedict XVI will not visit the Czech Republic's most atheist
> region
Apparently atheists can't be swayed by an aging Nazi in a flowing dress.
> Only a large wooden cross resists the ravages of time in a church with
> a collapsed roof and walls overgrown by wild bushes in the small
> village of Zlovedice.
> The neglected village and its dilapidated sanctuary lie in northern
> Bohemia, the most atheist region in the generally secular Czech
> Republic, where religion was crushed during World War II
Man...they "crushed religion" and they brew some of the world's best beer.
Genius!
> "When I came to Zlovedice for the first time, a woman told me: 'It's
> been 40 years since I last saw a priest'," said friar Josef Cermak.
That's gotta be bad for bidness!
> "But it is not a God-forsaken region at all," Cermak insists.
> "I am proof of this. I'm here, I live with the people," says the
> modest 57-year-old friar, who oversees 17 parishes from his seat in
> Kadan, about 100 kilometres (60 miles) north-west of Prague.
> But he is quick to point out that some of the parishes exist only "on
> paper"
The _very best_ kind of parish.
Syd M.
Decency will have a true chance to flourish.
PDW
Dakota
Catholicism and Voodoo.
Mitchell Holman
news:wOmdnXnJZ_vkU2jX...@giganews.com:
And look at all it has done for them.............
W.T.S.
news:c9334e6a-e99d-4f53...@15g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
> Where religion lies in ruins [Czech Republic's most atheist region]
> The Telegraph ^ | 9/25/2009 | AFP reporter
> Posted on 26 September 2009 07:26:14 by bruinbirdman
> Pope Benedict XVI will not visit the Czech Republic's most atheist
The only thing the Communists ever did that was right and had lasting
benefit was the suppression of religion, and, in the end, they did it the
wrong way and made a mess out of it all.
But, at least one area is spared the presence of a really sick, evil person!
Bible, bad. Sex, abortion, good.
--
http://folding.stanford.edu
Save lives, visit today!
fasgnadh
> "Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote;
>> Where religion lies in ruins
Religion is not in ruins, the atheist regimes are.
There are 300,000,000 new believers in China alone,
since the Communist Party leadership abandoned Maoist
persecution of religion and changed their Constitution
to allow Religious Freedom. Since then their economy has
roared ahead and their society progressed.
"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."
http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
B^D That's RULING COMMUNIST PARTY OFFICIALS ADMITTING THAT
RELIGION IMPROVES SOCIETY!!!! B^D B^D
"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.
The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
# Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
# -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
# fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
#
# From: fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups:
# alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
# alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
# Message-ID: <8QNtl.26734$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:07:32 GMT
#
# American Religious Identification Survey, Summary Report March 2009:
#
# "Self-identification of U.S. Adult Population by Religious Tradition
#
# 2001 2008
#
# Religious 167,254,000 (80%) 182,198,000 (80%)
#
# Agnostics 991,000 (0.5%) 1,985,000 (0.9%)
#
# Atheists 902,000 (0.4%) 1,621,000 (0.7%)
#
#
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
#
#
# 0.7% of Americans!! B^D 2.3% worldwide!!! B^D
#
#
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS BEAT YOU!!! **AND** they grew FASTER!!!! B^D
China data undeniable evidence that under atheism the people
suffered from a totalitarian tyranny, and progress and
prosperity correlates with FREEDOM, including the Freedom
to believe, think and speak!
Of course atheists continue to support the tyrants who destroyed
the lives of over 70,000,000 people in an orgy of terror, torture
and human rights abuses that were the rule in EVERY atheist regime:
> The only thing the Communists ever did that was right and had lasting
> benefit was the suppression of religion,
It wasn't right, their societies were dull, grey, conformist
totalitarian shitholes and catastrophic failures.
Their oppressed populations could not wait till the Wall was down
the Maoists forgotten, Lenin and Stalin exposed for the thugs and
failures they were.. and only since religious and political freedoms
were restored have those former atheist regimes begun to heal and
progress!
Q.E.D. Only the atheist fools are too blind to join the dots...
> and, in the end, they did it the
> wrong way and made a mess out of it all.
B^D so it wasn't 'right' and it didn't have 'lasting effects'
Irrational atheist nutjobs can't go two complete sentences without
totally contradicting themselves!
> But, at least one area is spared the presence of a really sick, evil person!
You are staying away from where?
> Bible, bad. Sex, abortion, good.
Can someone help that knuckle dragging simian peel it's banana?
The reality of atheist regimes in history;
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
Ray Fischer
>W.T.S. wrote:
>> "Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote;
>
>>> Where religion lies in ruins
>
>Religion is not in ruins, the atheist regimes are.
>
>There are 300,000,000 new believers in China alone,
Is that what the church tells you?
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Jimbo
> Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not much difference between the two.
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> W.T.S. wrote:
>>> "Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote;
>>
>>>> Where religion lies in ruins
>>
>> Religion is not in ruins, the atheist regimes are.
>>
>> There are 300,000,000 new believers in China alone,
>> persecution of religion and changed their Constitution
>> to allow Religious Freedom. Since then their economy has
>> roared ahead and their society progressed.
>>
>>
>> "With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
>> Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
>> longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
>> amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
>> of religion."
>>
>> http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
>>
>>
>> "At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
>> Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
>> the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
>>
>> "For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
>> to a large extent,"
>>
>> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> B^D That's RULING COMMUNIST PARTY OFFICIALS ADMITTING THAT
>> RELIGION IMPROVES SOCIETY!!!! B^D B^D
>>
>
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!
Learn to READ!
We know education under atheist regimes was propaganda and
forced indoctrination of children but you are so stupid some
of it must be innate! B^D
fasgnadh
>>
>> Where religion lies in ruins
70,000,000 were killed under atheist terror, torture and
mass murder;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
> Decency will have a true chance to flourish.
atheists wouldn't know decency if it bit them on the arse;
(�`�.�Craig Chilton�.���) <www.LayoffRemedy.com>
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Syd M. wrote:
>> [Sound of Stupidity] <soundof...@dcemail.com>] wrote:
>>> Where religion lies in ruins
> 70,000,000 were killed under atheist terror, torture and
> mass murder;
Atheism is totally harmless. The fact that 20th-century
tyrants used it as an excuse for their despicable acts and
pogroms cannot be regarded as an indictment of atheism.
A good example of this can be seen TODAY in the hateful
and antisocial agendas of the RRR and LDS Cults. They *claim*
to be Christian, in the course of their pursuing their UN-Christian
and loathsome agendas against the personal liberties of tens of
millions of girls, women, and gays.
But their LYING about Christianity doen't chanmge the fact
that ACTUAL Christianity is good. All it can do is CON lower-
intellect people into thinking that Christianity is bad. just as
the 20th-century tyrants unfairly and unscrupulously painted
atheism with that brush.
Most INTELLIGENT people see right through that, and place
the blame squarely where it BELONGS: on the shoulders of the
tyrants and the bigots, and NOT on the religious perspectives
that the tyrants and bigots erect as their straw men.
What society needs is for those who are being CONNED by
the lies of tyrants and bigots to become better EDUCATED, so
that they, too, can see through those deceptions.
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> Syd M. wrote:
>>> On Nov 7, 5:48 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Where religion lies in ruins
>>
>> 70,000,000 were killed under atheist terror, torture and
>> mass murder;
>>
>
> Atheism is totally harmless.
Clearly not:
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
>> - Lenin
>>
>> "You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
>> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
>> - Stalin
>> E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
>> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
> The fact that 20th-century
atheist
> tyrants used it as an excuse for their despicable acts and
> pogroms cannot be regarded as an indictment of atheism.
the fact that EVERY atheist regime was a bloody tyranny
and EVERY member of the Ruling Central Committee was an
atheist IS an indictment of atheism...
> A good example of this can be seen TODAY in the hateful
> and antisocial agendas of the RRR and LDS Cults. They *claim*
> to be Christian,
A pathetic argument by false analogy.
There are many religious societies which are progressive,
democratic, free .. in fact atheist hypocrites CHOOSE
to live in them.
Thus, religion is NOT the CAUSE of terror, torture and violence.
However .. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian tyranny.
The proof is conclusive.
If you can find a SINGLE atheist state, anytime in history,
which was NOT a totalitarian tyranny.. record it here:
........................................................
> in the course of their pursuing their UN-Christian
> and loathsome agendas against the personal liberties of tens of
> millions of girls, women, and gays.
Where did anyone claim that crimes cannot be committed
and falsely attributed to religion?
The test is simple.. were paedophile priests acting
in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, or any
of the Spiritual teachings of the great and enduring world religions?
No, they BREACHED the religious laws and moral teachings.
Now, were the terror, torture and mass human rights abuses and murder
a breach of any atheist moral teaching?
No.
"In the Name of" must be tested carefully, because atheists
will PRETEND to be 'religious' in order to defame and vilify it;
Eg 1: North Korea's atheist regime creates a state doctrine, Juche
which everyone but the North Koreans and their complicit atheist
propagandists in the west know is a FAKE to PRETEND that
religious freedom exists where none does! pffffft!
Only athiets accept such Bare-faced LIES! B^p
eg 2: Atheists in the west will impersonate religion to discredit it;
# It's Official, Atheists claim to be a persecuted RELIGION: B^D
#
#
# "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints
# of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart"
#
# "atheism counts as a religion" - Dr Perkins said."
#
# - The Age 29/1/2009
>
> But their LYING about Christianity doen't chanmge the fact
> that ACTUAL Christianity is good.
And we have proof of that in the MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES
which are progressive, democratic, Free, pluralist and even
create SECULAR governments to ensure that no one doctrine
can dominate all others, theist or non theist!
Even the atheists choose to live in such majority religious
societies - The USA, Australia, Indonesia, European nations,
India...
Now, can you name ONE free and democratic atheist regime?
In all of human history?????
> All it can do is CON lower-
> intellect people into thinking that Christianity is bad.
And that is how atheism works.
They use the evil doctrine of Collective Responsibility..
If one, or a hundred, Islamofascist terrorists blow people up,
they hold ALL 1.57 Billion Muslims responsible, even all the
other "Theists" get collectively blamed! 8^o
They extrapolate from the inquisition, witch burnings and
paedophile priests.. all deserving to be condemned, to
blame ALL religious!
They are irrational and immoral propagandists!
I do NOT hold all modern atheists responsible for the
atheist holocausts of the 20th century!!! But I point
out that that the history of anti-theist oppression is
consistent in EVERY atheist regime.. that atheism has
NEVER produced a great and enduring atheist civilisation,
and that historical evidence is why atheism is again a tiny
and distrusted minority.. an ineffectual and useless
sub-branch of Nihilism!
However, like neo-Nazi deniers of the Nazi holocausts,
atheist holocuast deniers make themselves complicit
if they deny and defend those atheist tyrannies, and you will
find most of them doing so in Usenet! B^p
The church acknowledges it's persecution of witches,
it's pogroms against Jews, it's Borgia Popes and
co-ersion of Galileo....
Atheists who deny the atheist holocuasts make themselves COMPLICIT!
> just as
> the 20th-century tyrants unfairly and unscrupulously painted
> atheism with that brush.
Pardon? You use groups you claim were not genuine Christians
to defend atheist tyrants and atheist governments, where 100%
of the Central Committee implementing atheist policies????
No wonder you could not refute nor rebut a single point
in the evidence of the atheist holocuasts!
In Nth Korea the atheist regime has CONSTRUCTED a state
doctrine which is calls a 'religion' solely for the purpose
of pretending that religion is not persecuted, prohibited and oppressed!!!
> Most INTELLIGENT people see right through that, and place
> the blame squarely where it BELONGS: on the shoulders of the
> tyrants and the bigots, and NOT on the religious perspectives
> that the tyrants and bigots erect as their straw men.
Exactly.. but the USSR, Maoist China, and Pol Pots genocide
were NOT theists PRETENDING to be atheists.. they were ATHEISTS,
openly and explicitly implementing atheist policies, there
was nothing in atheist dogma which prohibited terror torture
and mass murder.. it was all permitted!
The most influential atheists in history say you are naive
and do not understand what they stand for;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
And modern atheists support that bloody terror WITH NOT A SINGLE
ATHEIST OBJECTING IN ALL OF USENET IN OVER TWELVE MONTHS: 8^o
THAT makes them complicit! capice?
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
>
> What society needs is for those who are being CONNED by
> the lies of tyrants and bigots to become better EDUCATED, so
> that they, too, can see through those deceptions.
That is what I am doing.. educating adolescents who
may otherwise believe the propaganda and lies and denial
of the evidence of history, about atheist regimes.
When all the great and enduring civilisations have been inspired
and sustained by Spiritual Principles, and atheist regimes denying
what those societies have found true and useful have ALL produced
catastrophic tyrannies.. most rational people can join the dots..
Some simply refuse to see the evidence, which even the Chinese
communists admit:
Chinese Communists ABANDONED atheist tyranny after
the failures of Mao's Great Leap Backward, Cultural
Devolution, and the insane persecution of believers,
creating social disharmony..
"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."
http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
That's CHINESE COMMUNISTS admitting the efficacy of religious
freedom!!! B^D
"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.
The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
300,000,000 New Believers - worldwide atheism DECLINES because
people in former atheist TYRANNIES are now FREE to Choose!!
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS grew FASTER than atheism!!!! B^D
Uncle Vic
> fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>W.T.S. wrote:
>>> "Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote;
>>
>>>> Where religion lies in ruins
>>
>>Religion is not in ruins, the atheist regimes are.
>>
>>There are 300,000,000 new believers in China alone,
>
> Is that what the church tells you?
>
Amazing. Religion is indeed an institution, and people are indeed
leaving it in droves. But atheism? An institution?
Atheism is nothing but a large group of individuals. It's not an
institution. It's definitely not a regime. And last time I checked,
there was nothing to ruin.
So what do these morons imagine we are? Some kind of political group who
worship Stalin, or Pol-Pot? Most of us are just individuals who happened
to apply critical thinking to basic religion and came up empty. We walk
away, we get on with our lives.
Amazing.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Christians are like Slinkys. They're boring, but they'll put a smile on
your face when you push them down the stairs.
(�`�.�Craig Chilton�.���) <www.LayoffRemedy.com>
When TYRANTS and BIGOTS Abuse Religious Philosophies
to CON Societies...
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:57:54 GMT,
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> 70,000,000 were killed under atheist terror, torture and
> mass murder...
Atheism is totally harmless. The fact that 20th-century
tyrants used it as an excuse for their despicable acts and
pogroms cannot be regarded as an indictment of atheism.
A good example of this can be seen TODAY in the hateful
and antisocial agendas of the RRR and LDS Cults. They *claim*
to be Christian, in the course of their pursuing their UN-Christian
and loathsome agendas against the personal liberties of tens of
millions of girls, women, and gays.
But their LYING about Christianity doesn't change the fact
that ACTUAL Christianity is good. All it can do is CON lower-
intellect people into thinking that Christianity is bad. just as
the 20th-century tyrants unfairly and unscrupulously painted
atheism with that brush.
Most INTELLIGENT people see right through that, and place
the blame squarely where it BELONGS: on the shoulders of the
tyrants and the bigots, and NOT on the religious perspectives
that the tyrants and bigots erect as their straw men.
What society needs is for those who are being CONNED by
the lies of tyrants and bigots to become better EDUCATED, so
that they, too, can see through those deceptions.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> The fact that EVERY atheist regime was a bloody tyranny
> and EVERY member of the Ruling Central Committee was an
> atheist IS an indictment of atheism.
No. That is an indictment of the tyrants who ABUSED atheism,
and thus got it painted with a brush that it never deserved. As I
pointed out above. Most of today's atheists are some of the most
intelligent AND **fair** people on the planet.
>> A good example of this can be seen TODAY in the hateful
>> and antisocial agendas of the RRR and LDS Cults. They *claim*
>> to be Christian,
>
> A pathetic argument by false analogy.
Wrong. That was a statement of FACT, and the analogy
is very REAL.
> There are many religious societies which are progressive,
> democratic, free .. in fact atheist hypocrites CHOOSE
> to live in them.
For any atheist to live in such free countries is not hypocrisy.
It's common sense. Most atheists are VERY sensible people, and
have NOTHING against the according of personal liberties to all
people.
> Thus, religion is NOT the CAUSE of terror, torture and violence.
And atheism can be regarded as a religion. One that believes
that there probably is NO God.
And MANY religions have been ABUSED by hateful people who
have claimed allegiance to them, and thus give them a bad name.
Stalin did that to atheism, and today's RRR & LDS Cult leaders are
doing it to Christianity.
> However .. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian tyranny.
Today's free and democratic Czech Republic has a HIGH
percentage of atheists -- and NO such problem.
> If you can find a SINGLE atheist state, anytime in history,
> which was NOT a totalitarian tyranny.. record it here:
The Czech Republic comes close enough to qualify.
>> in the course of their pursuing their UN-Christian
>> and loathsome agendas against the personal liberties of tens of
>> millions of girls, women, and gays.
> Where did anyone claim that crimes cannot be committed
> and falsely attributed to religion?
I believe I've been making that abundantly clear!
> The test is simple.. were pedophile priests acting in
> accordance with the teachings of Jesus, or any of the Spiritual
> teachings of the great and enduring world religions?
Look up "hypocrites" and "anomalies."
> No, they BREACHED the religious laws and moral teachings.
> Now, were the terror, torture and mass human rights abuses
> and murder a breach of any atheist moral teaching?
If you think that atheists have no code of ethics, you have a
lot to learn. They are SMART enough to live by the same code
that most other religions go by at bottom. The Golden Rule. The
BEST way to live sensibly and defensively in any society.
> No.
>
> "In the Name of" must be tested carefully, because atheists
> will PRETEND to be 'religious' in order to defame and vilify it;
>
> Eg 1: North Korea's atheist regime creates a state doctrine, Juche
> which everyone but the North Koreans and their complicit atheist
> propagandists in the west know is a FAKE to PRETEND that
> religious freedom exists where none does! pffffft!
See my article above to see how tyrants have ABUSED atheism
to make it appear that atheism is responsible for the abuses that
THEY -- **personally** --commit.
It's NOT atheism's fault. It's the TYRANTS' fault.
Just as hateful and irrational opposition to the harmless and
beneficial REMEDY of abortion, and to harmless same-sex marriage
is NOT something to blame Christianity for. It's NOT Christianity's
fault. It's the lying and hateful RRR & LDS Cult's *LEADERS'* fault.
Who have given Christianity a bad name by LYING that Christianity
aligns with their bigotry. (Even though 1 Cor. 5:12-13 PROVES
them to be hypocritical and wrong.)
<Lie-snip>
[ ... ]
>> But [the cultists'] LYING about Christianity doen't chanmge
>> the fact that ACTUAL Christianity is good.
> And we have proof of that in the MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES
> which are progressive, democratic, Free, pluralist and even
> create SECULAR governments to ensure that no one doctrine
> can dominate all others, theist or non theist!
>
> Even the atheists choose to live in such majority religious
> societies - The USA, Australia, Indonesia, European nations,
> India...
The fact that atheists happen to live in such countries has
nothing to do with their BEING atheists. People who are free
to choose where to live and have the ability to move there will
naturally gravitate to countries that do the best job of according
and respecting personal liberties -- no matter WHAT their religious
beliefs might happen to be.
> Now, can you name ONE free and democratic atheist regime?
> In all of human history?
See above.
>> All it can do is CON lower-intellect people into thinking
>> that Christianity is bad.
> And that is how atheism works.
NO! That is how TYRANTS work.
> They use the evil doctrine of Collective Responsibility.
>
> If one, or a hundred, Islamofascist terrorists blow people up,
> they hold ALL 1.57 Billion Muslims responsible, even all the
> other "Theists" get collectively blamed!
That's what TYRANTS **do**. The world's religions
(including atheism) are NOT at fault. Only TINY CULTS and
TYRANTS are at fault.
> They extrapolate from the inquisition, witch burnings and
> pedophile priests... all deserving to be condemned, to
> blame ALL religious!
>
> They are irrational and immoral propagandists!
>
> I do NOT hold all modern atheists responsible for the
> [ ... ] holocausts of the 20th century!!! But I point
> out that that the history of anti-theist oppression is
> consistent in EVERY atheist regime... that atheism has
> NEVER produced a great and enduring atheist civilization,
> and that historical evidence is why atheism is again a tiny
> and distrusted minority.. an ineffectual and useless
> sub-branch of Nihilism!
Bullcrap!!! At any time, a country led by an atheist
could come along that is quite free and egalitarian. Atheism
does NOT call for tyranny.
<redundant bigotry flushed>
> In North Korea the atheist regime has CONSTRUCTED a state
> doctrine which is calls a 'religion' solely for the purpose
> of pretending that religion is not persecuted, prohibited and
> oppressed!!!
Blame the TYRANTS. As I pointed out before ---
>> Most INTELLIGENT people see right through that, and place
>> the blame squarely where it BELONGS: on the shoulders of the
>> tyrants and the bigots, and NOT on the religious perspectives
>> that the tyrants and bigots erect as their straw men.
> Exactly.. but the USSR, Maoist China, and Pol Pots genocide
> were NOT theists PRETENDING to be atheists.. they were ATHEISTS,
> openly and explicitly implementing atheist policies, there was nothing
> in atheist dogma which prohibited terror torture and mass murder...
> it was all permitted!
So? Just as there can be hateful people claiming to be Christians,
there can be hateful people making it appear that atheism is responsible.
That's a cop-out on their part. In such cases, the party RESPONSIBLE
for the hateful actions is the leader or government ENTITY -- **not**
atheism. (Or Christianity, or any other religion.)
> The most influential atheists in history say you are naive
> and do not understand what they stand for;
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
>And modern atheists support that bloody terror WITH NOT A SINGLE
>ATHEIST OBJECTING IN ALL OF USENET IN OVER TWELVE MONTHS:
Really? You've read ALL of the Usenet posts that atheists
have written? WOW!! What a speed reading GENIUS you must
be!! (OR -- what a liar.)
Why not try ASKING some atheists?
> THAT makes them complicit! capice?
See above!
>> What society needs is for those who are being CONNED by
>> the lies of tyrants and bigots to become better EDUCATED, so
>> that they, too, can see through those deceptions.
> That is what I am doing.. educating adolescents who
> may otherwise believe the propaganda and lies and denial
> of the evidence of history, about atheist regimes.
And instead, what you have no doubt ACCOMPLISED is
proving how LUDICROUS and unfair ill-informed people like
you truly are! (I hope that LOTS of adolescents are reading
your TRIPE, and seeing that for themselves.)
> When all the great and enduring civilisations have been inspired
> and sustained by Spiritual Principles...
Such as that of the Egyptians who enslaved the Jews?
THEY weren't atheists. And the SPANIARD who murdered
countless thousand/millions of Aztecs/Mayans/Incas in the
Americas and DESTROYED their civilizations? THEY claimed
to be CHRISTIANS.
> Some simply refuse to see the evidence, which even the Chinese
> communists admit:
> Chinese Communists ABANDONED atheist tyranny after
> the failures of Mao's Great Leap Backward, Cultural
> Devolution, and the insane persecution of believers,
> creating social disharmony.
No. They abandoned TYRANNY. (For the most part.)
But they did NOT **ban** atheism.
> "With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
> Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
> longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
> amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
> of religion."
>
> http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
>
> "At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
> Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
> the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
>
> "For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
> to a large extent,"
>
>http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
>
> That's CHINESE COMMUNISTS admitting the efficacy of religious
> freedom!!!
>
> "religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
> past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
>
> "Religious believers thrice the estimate
> By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
>
> "A survey has found that the number of religious believers
> is three times bigger than the official estimate.
>
> The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
> Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
> University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
> of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
>
> 300,000,000 New Believers - worldwide atheism DECLINES because
> people in former atheist TYRANNIES are now FREE to Choose!!
>
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
>
> Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
> atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
> in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD!
Big harry deel. NOTHING you have said is an INDICTMENT of
atheism. You've merely pointed out that many people have chosen
to regard other religions to be attractive.
You have said NOTHING to indicate that there is **anything**
WRONG with atheism, per say, in ANY of your long diatribe.
And there ISN'T anything wrong with atheism. It isn't atheism's
fault that many tyrants have managed to paint it with a brush it never
deserved.
As for the USA -- HERE is the well-documented TRUTH about what's
been happening here, with regard to religious beliefs:
http://www.Egalitarian.biz/USA-Chr-Non-Relig--1990-2008-2026Proj.html
Ray Fischer
>>> There are 300,000,000 new believers in China alone,
> >
> > Is that what the church tells you?
>
>BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!
>
>Learn to READ!
I read quite well, bigot.
Do you?
>We know education under atheist regimes was propaganda
We know that you're a religious lunatic.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> (�`�.�Craig Chilton�.���) <www.LayoffRemedy.com> wrote:
>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>> Syd M. wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 7, 5:48 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where religion lies in ruins
>>>>
>>>>
>> >
>> > Atheism is totally harmless.
>>
>> Clearly not:
>>
>>
>>>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>>>
>>>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>>>
>>>> - Lenin
>>>>
>>>> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
>>>> - Stalin
>>>> E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
>>>> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
>>
>>> The fact that 20th-century
>> atheist
>>> cannot be regarded as an indictment of atheism.
>>
>> and EVERY member of the Ruling Central Committee was an
>
> No.
Yes, there are no atheist regimes which are exceptions,
ALL were tyrannies. your analogy with *some*, ATYPICAL
Christian sects fails.
> That is an indictment of the tyrants who ABUSED atheism,
All atheist leaders have abused their POPULATIONS, not atheism.
List the moral precepts of atheism which you claim
Lenin, Stalin Mao and Pol Pot 'abused'; B^p
......................................
......................................
>>
>>>> But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
>>>> but of the entire State apparatus;
>>>>
>>>> The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
>>>> the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
>>>> every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
>>>> and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
>>>>
>>>> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
>>>>
>>>> - Daniel Peris,
>>>> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
>>>> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>>>>
>>>> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>>>>
>>>> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
>>>> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
>>>> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
>>>> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
>>>> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>>>>
>>>> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
>>>> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
As usual the atheist cannot refute any of the facts about atheist
regimes!
>>> A good example of this can be seen TODAY in the hateful
>>> and antisocial agendas of the RRR and LDS Cults. They *claim* to be
>>> Christian,
>>
>> A pathetic argument by false analogy.
>
> Wrong. That was a statement of FACT, and the analogy
> is very REAL.
I already demolished that irrational argument by false analogy
you can't avoid the truth by snipping it and running away:
>> There are many religious societies which are progressive,
>> democratic, free .. in fact atheist hypocrites CHOOSE
>> to live in them.
>>
>> Thus, religion is NOT the CAUSE of terror, torture and violence.
>
> For any atheist to live in such free countries is not hypocrisy.
> It's common sense.
Living in a majority religious society rather than an atheist
shithole is common sense, but advocating atheism whilke you
do it is hypocrisy! B^]
>> However .. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian tyranny.
>>
>> The proof is conclusive.
> >
> And atheism can be regarded as a religion. One that believes
> that there probably is NO God.
So there are no atheists on the planet, all nations are Religious
believers!? B ^D
You can all shit the fuck up about it then, you ridiculous cretin! B^D
>> If you can find a SINGLE atheist state, anytime in history,
>> which was NOT a totalitarian tyranny.. record it here:
>>
>> ........................................................
Oh, but you can't now, because you claim all atheists are
religious, and so every criticism atheists ever made of religion
apply to them! B^D Priceless!
> The Czech Republic comes close enough to qualify.
Not even close.
You have no idea what an atheist state is, do you!?
Despite me documenting them for you...
you are wasting our time...
Come back when you have an argument worth listening to..
>> > in the course of their pursuing their UN-Christian
>>> and loathsome agendas against the personal liberties of tens of
>>> millions of girls, women, and gays.
>>
>> Where did anyone claim that crimes cannot be committed
>> and falsely attributed to religion?
>>
>> The test is simple.. were paedophile priests acting
>> in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, or any
>> of the Spiritual teachings of the great and enduring world religions?
>>
>> No, they BREACHED the religious laws and moral teachings.
>>
>>
>> Now, were the terror, torture and mass human rights abuses and murder
>> a breach of any atheist moral teaching?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> "In the Name of" must be tested carefully, because atheists
>> will PRETEND to be 'religious' in order to defame and vilify it;
>>
>> Eg 1: North Korea's atheist regime creates a state doctrine, Juche
>> which everyone but the North Koreans and their complicit atheist
>> propagandists in the west know is a FAKE to PRETEND that
>> religious freedom exists where none does! pffffft!
>>
>> Only athiets accept such Bare-faced LIES! B^p
>>
>> eg 2: Atheists in the west will impersonate religion to discredit it;
>>
>> # It's Official, Atheists claim to be a persecuted RELIGION: B^D
>> #
>> #
>> # "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints
>> # of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart"
>> #
>> # "atheism counts as a religion" - Dr Perkins said."
>> #
>> # - The Age 29/1/2009
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> But their LYING about Christianity doen't chanmge the fact
>>> that ACTUAL Christianity is good.
>>
>> And we have proof of that in the MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES
>> which are progressive, democratic, Free, pluralist and even
>> create SECULAR governments to ensure that no one doctrine
>> can dominate all others, theist or non theist!
>>
>> Even the atheists choose to live in such majority religious
>> societies - The USA, Australia, Indonesia, European nations,
>> India...
>>
>> Now, can you name ONE free and democratic atheist regime?
>> In all of human history?????
>>
>> > All it can do is CON lower-
>>> intellect people into thinking that Christianity is bad.
>>
>> And that is how atheism works.
>>
>> They use the evil doctrine of Collective Responsibility..
>>
>> If one, or a hundred, Islamofascist terrorists blow people up,
>> they hold ALL 1.57 Billion Muslims responsible, even all the
>> other "Theists" get collectively blamed! 8^o
>>
>> They extrapolate from the inquisition, witch burnings and
>> paedophile priests.. all deserving to be condemned, to
>> blame ALL religious!
>>
>> They are irrational and immoral propagandists!
>>
>> I do NOT hold all modern atheists responsible for the
>> atheist holocausts of the 20th century!!! But I point
>> out that that the history of anti-theist oppression is
>> consistent in EVERY atheist regime.. that atheism has
>> NEVER produced a great and enduring atheist civilisation,
>> and that historical evidence is why atheism is again a tiny
>> and distrusted minority.. an ineffectual and useless
>> sub-branch of Nihilism!
>>
>> However, like neo-Nazi deniers of the Nazi holocausts,
>> atheist holocuast deniers make themselves complicit
>> if they deny and defend those atheist tyrannies, and you will
>> find most of them doing so in Usenet! B^p
>>
>> The church acknowledges it's persecution of witches,
>> it's pogroms against Jews, it's Borgia Popes and
>> co-ersion of Galileo....
>>
>> Atheists who deny the atheist holocuasts make themselves COMPLICIT!
>>
>>
>>> just as
>>> the 20th-century tyrants unfairly and unscrupulously painted atheism
>>> with that brush.
>>
>> Pardon? You use groups you claim were not genuine Christians
>> to defend atheist tyrants and atheist governments, where 100%
>> of the Central Committee implementing atheist policies????
>>
>>
>> No wonder you could not refute nor rebut a single point
>> in the evidence of the atheist holocuasts!
>>
>> In Nth Korea the atheist regime has CONSTRUCTED a state
>> doctrine which is calls a 'religion' solely for the purpose
>> of pretending that religion is not persecuted, prohibited and oppressed!!!
>>
>>
>>> Most INTELLIGENT people see right through that, and place the blame
>>> squarely where it BELONGS: on the shoulders of the
>>> tyrants and the bigots, and NOT on the religious perspectives
>>> that the tyrants and bigots erect as their straw men.
>>
>> Exactly.. but the USSR, Maoist China, and Pol Pots genocide
>> were NOT theists PRETENDING to be atheists.. they were ATHEISTS,
>> openly and explicitly implementing atheist policies, there
>> was nothing in atheist dogma which prohibited terror torture
>> and mass murder.. it was all permitted!
>>
>> The most influential atheists in history say you are naive
>> and do not understand what they stand for;
>>
>>
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
>> - Lenin
>>
>> And modern atheists support that bloody terror WITH NOT A SINGLE
>> ATHEIST OBJECTING IN ALL OF USENET IN OVER TWELVE MONTHS: 8^o
>>
>> THAT makes them complicit! capice?
>>
>>> What society needs is for those who are being CONNED by
>>> the lies of tyrants and bigots to become better EDUCATED, so that
>>> they, too, can see through those deceptions.
>>
>> That is what I am doing.. educating adolescents who
>> may otherwise believe the propaganda and lies and denial
>> of the evidence of history, about atheist regimes.
>>
>> When all the great and enduring civilisations have been inspired
>> and sustained by Spiritual Principles, and atheist regimes denying
>> what those societies have found true and useful have ALL produced
>> catastrophic tyrannies.. most rational people can join the dots..
>>
>> Some simply refuse to see the evidence, which even the Chinese
>> communists admit:
>>
>>
>> Chinese Communists ABANDONED atheist tyranny after
>> the failures of Mao's Great Leap Backward, Cultural
>> Devolution, and the insane persecution of believers,
>> creating social disharmony..
>>
>>
>> "With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
>> Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
>> longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
>> amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
>> of religion."
>>
>> http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
>>
>>
>> "At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
>> Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
>> the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
>>
>> "For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
>> to a large extent,"
>>
>> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
>>
>> That's CHINESE COMMUNISTS admitting the efficacy of religious
>> freedom!!! B^D
>>
>> "religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
>> past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
>>
>>
>> "Religious believers thrice the estimate
>> By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
>>
>> "A survey has found that the number of religious believers
>> is three times bigger than the official estimate.
>>
>> The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
>> Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
>> University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
>> of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
>>
>> 300,000,000 New Believers - worldwide atheism DECLINES because
>> people in former atheist TYRANNIES are now FREE to Choose!!
>>
>> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
>>
>> Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
>> atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
(�`�.�Craig Chilton�.���) <www.LayoffRemedy.com>
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>> the fact that EVERY atheist regime was a bloody tyranny
>>> and EVERY member of the Ruling Central Committee was an
>>> atheist IS an indictment of atheism...
>> No. That is an indictment of the tyrants who ABUSED atheism,
>> and thus got it painted with a brush that it never deserved. As I
>> pointed out above. Most of today's atheists are some of the most
>> intelligent AND **fair** people on the planet.
> Yes, there are no atheist regimes which are exceptions,
> ALL were tyrannies. your analogy with *some*, ATYPICAL
> Christian sects fails.
Bullcrap. But IF that were true, it only means that tyrants had
CHOSEN to abuse atheism and let the downtrodden people blame
IT instead of THEM -- and they figured it would be easier to paint
atheism in a bad light. Since many people are *already* DUMB
enough not to realize that atheism is FULLY as respectable as
any of the other religions.
>> That is an indictment of the tyrants who ABUSED atheism, ...
See above.
> All atheist leaders have abused their POPULATIONS, not atheism.
And made it APPEAR that it was the atheism that was the
culprit if any blame were to be ascribed, rather then them. They
used atheism as a BUFFER.
> List the moral precepts of atheism which you claim
> Lenin, Stalin Mao and Pol Pot 'abused'...
No precepts necessary. They claimed their regimes were
atheism-based, and by doing that, if the people got riled up,
a healthy percentage of them would be stupid enough to think
atheism was to blame, rather than the leaders.
[ ... ]
> As usual the atheist cannot refute any of the facts about atheist
> regimes!
Since I'm a Christian, and my father was a minister, I wouldn't
know about any conversations you've had with atheists. (As LITTLE
as you seem to know about atheism, I doubt if you've talked with
ANY atheists. If you had, you might have LEARNED some things
from them. (My best friend over the last 30 years is an atheist, and
HE would be laughing his ass off at you.)
[ ... ]
>>>> A good example of this can be seen TODAY in the hateful
>>>> and antisocial agendas of the RRR and LDS Cults. They *claim*
>>>> to be Christian, in the course of their pursuing their UN-Christian
>>>> and loathsome agendas against the personal liberties of tens of
>>>> millions of girls, women, and gays.
>>>>
>>>> But their LYING about Christianity doesn't change the fact
>>>> that ACTUAL Christianity is good. All it can do is CON lower-
>>>> intellect people into thinking that Christianity is bad. just as
>>>> the 20th-century tyrants unfairly and unscrupulously painted
>>>> atheism with that brush.
>>>>
>>>> Most INTELLIGENT people see right through that, and place
>>>> the blame squarely where it BELONGS: on the shoulders of the
>>>> tyrants and the bigots, and NOT on the religious perspectives
>>>> that the tyrants and bigots erect as their straw men.
>>>>
>>>> What society needs is for those who are being CONNED by
>>>> the lies of tyrants and bigots to become better EDUCATED, so
>>>> that they, too, can see through those deceptions.
>>> A pathetic argument by false analogy.
>> Wrong. That was a statement of FACT, and the analogy
>> is very REAL.
> I already demolished that irrational argument .
You never came close, and you never will, because it is
an EXCELLENT analogy. And as such, is NOT irrational.
YOUR trying to blame atheism INSTEAD of the TYRANTS,
themselves, is what's irrational.
>>> There are many religious societies which are progressive,
>>> democratic, free ... in fact atheist hypocrites CHOOSE
>>> to live in them.
>>>
>>> Thus, religion is NOT the CAUSE of terror, torture and violence.
Including the religion of atheism. Those horrors are perpetrated
by the TYRANNIES, *not* the religion. NOTHING in atheism advocates
imposing terror, torture, and violence upon people. (If you knew
ANYTHING about atheists, you'd know THAT much!! GET OFF of bad-
mouthing atheism for NO good reason, and LYING about it, do you?)
You might have come close if you'd blame Satanism. But since
atheists see no reason to believe in supernatural entities, they don't
believe in Satan, either.
>> For any atheist to live in free countries is not hypocrisy.
>> It's common sense.
>
> Living in a majority religious society rather than an atheist
> shithole...
There you go, PROVING your ignorance again! There is NO
reason that an atheistic society headed by a BENEVOLENT gov-
ernment couldn't comprise a DELIGHTFUL country in which to
live.
> ...is common sense, but advocating atheism while you do it
> is hypocrisy!
I'm not "advocating* ANY religion. I'm DEFENDING people's
right to believe in ANY of them (including atheism), and for ALL
religions (NOT including any hate cults that may be found within
them) to command EQUAL respect from the peoples of the world.
>>> However .. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian tyranny.
>>>
>>> The proof is conclusive.
>> And atheism can be regarded as a religion. One that believes
>> that there probably is NO God.
>>> If you can find a SINGLE atheist state, anytime in history,
>>> which was NOT a totalitarian tyranny.. record it here:
As I said in a previous post, the Czech Republic -- which is a
really NEAT and FREE country -- comes very close to that.
> You claim all atheists are religious...
ONLY to the extent that ALL people holding spiritual beliefs
are "religious." Muslims revere Mohammad. Christians revere
Jesus/God. Jews revere God. Atheists revere their right to
believe that which to them is the probability that there is NO
higher power than humanity, and that the spirit world does
not exist. And ALL of those people have a perfect right to
believe as they choose without being criticized and bad-
mouthed by ignorant and bigoted LOSERS.
> You are wasting our time...
ROTFL!!! With your ludicrous, hateful, narrow-minded,
and bigoted notions, YOU have been a total waste of time
right from the START.
So keep right on rolling around in your idiotic SWILL, and
I'll leave you to it. Your IGNORANCE isn't worth wasting any
more time on.
NOTHING you have said is an INDICTMENT of atheism.
You've merely pointed out that many people have chosen
to regard other religions to be attractive.
You have said NOTHING to indicate that there is **anything**
WRONG with atheism, per say, in ANY of your long diatribe.
And there ISN'T anything wrong with atheism. It isn't
atheism's fault that many tyrants have managed to paint it
with a brush it never deserved.
As for the USA -- HERE is the well-documented TRUTH
about what's been happening here in the USA, with regard to
religious beliefs:
http://www.Egalitarian.biz/USA-Chr-Non-Relig--1990-2008-2026Proj.html
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
��� Rest in Peace ���
��� George Richard Tiller, MD ���
��� A True American HERO! ���
��� August 8, 1941 � May 31, 2009 ���
��� Visit -- http://iamdrtiller.com ���
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
-- Craig Chilton <xana...@mchsi.com>
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > Decency will have a true chance to flourish.
>
> atheists wouldn't know decency if it bit them on the arse;
Fasgnadh is fixated on biting people in the arse.
His monomania makes him unable to grasp simple truths like:
THE BOTTOM LINE:
EVERYONE, except possibly members of a clearly majority religion in a
nation, prefers his or her nation to have a STRONGLY SECULAR DEMOCRATIC
GOVERNMENT which can defend them against religious imposition.
Once having that, the nations distribution of religiousity is quite
IRRELEVANT in determining its friendliness.
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Where religion lies in ruins
> >>
> >> Religion is not in ruins
Since the advent of nations with STRONGLY SECULAR DEMOCRATIC
GOVERNMENTS, religions, at least in those nations, have become largely
redundant.
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> (�`�.�Craig Chilton�.���) <www.LayoffRemedy.com> wrote:
>
> > Atheism is totally harmless.
>
> Clearly not:
It has never, by itself, harmed anyone. But when treated as a religion
by the powerful, it is as evil as enforced religions always are under
such circumstances.
--
As a criterion for livability, being a MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETY is irrelevant
to atheists and agnostics, and even to theists unless their own religion is
dominant. What is highly relevant is having a SECULAR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
which protects everyone from unwanted religious pressures.
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Fasgnadh again at his most logical and eloquent:
> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!