March Against Bush!
dave
The World Says No to the Bush Agenda
Massive NYC Protest on the Eve of the Republican National Convention
Assemble at 10:00AM,
Seventh Avenue @ 14th Street
March steps off at noon
Show your support: We need to raise $250,000 to cover the costs of this
historic protest!
Join United for Peace and Justice in New York City for a massive,
not-to-be-missed demonstration on Sunday, August 29th - a curtain raiser for
the Republican National Convention (RNC), which begins the following day.
Why We Are Marching
On August 29, We Say No to War, Greed, Hate, and Lies
We march to promote a new way forward. The disastrous consequences of the
Bush agenda are most dramatically visible in the ongoing U.S. war in Iraq.
The first step toward a peaceful and secure planet is a foreign policy
grounded in human rights, international law, environmental sustainability,
and respect for the sovereignty of all nations. Democracy begins with an
absolute commitment to the rights and civil liberties of all, especially
immigrants and other vulnerable communities. Lasting security rests in
economic and social justice, in providing jobs, housing, education, health
care and other essential programs to all. We march for peace, we march for
justice... Another world is possible!
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=sub&sub=47
El Loco
cut back a little on their narcotic purchases they could raise $5 million.
=========
"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:GOmdnYZOUuR...@gbronline.com...
Roger
news:10iiokh...@corp.supernews.com...
> If all the Kerry supporting protesters would pool their welfare checks and
> cut back a little on their narcotic purchases they could raise $5 million.
Isn't Limbaugh a Bush supporter?
dave
supporters and Rush Limbaughs of the US, in other words Repugs.
"El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10iiokh...@corp.supernews.com...
El Loco
You countered my logic with name calling. I guess you win the debate.
Of course that's how libs always approach an argument they can't win ...
Divert the focus, change the subject and resort to name calling.
In the face of that devestating attack I'm left with no choice but to switch
my preference and support Kerry. So here goes.
Here are my 10 reasons to vote for Kerry:
1. He's not George Bush - No wait that's not a positive reason.
2. His record of valor in Viet Nam - No wait, that has been completely refuted.
3. His record of achievement in the US Senate - No wait, he doesn't have a
record of achievement in the Senate.
4. His support for the war against terrorism - No wait, he hasn't helped at all.
5. His efforts to lower taxes on the middle class - No wait, he's never tried that.
6. His solid stance on all the issues - No wait, he's "waffled" on every issue.
7. His openness with his medical and tax records - No wait, he refuses to
disclose those.
8.
9.
10.
Damn! Let' see, he lacks Jimmy Carter's brains, Bill Clinton's ethics, Al Gore's grip on reality
and Michael Dukakas' charisma. I can't think of a single good positive reason to vote for him.
C'mon libs. Help out here. Surely there is at least one good positive reason to vote for him ... isn't there?
=============
"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:TP6dnb4UWpo...@gbronline.com...
Hü©k Hö§hïmötö !
> C'mon libs. Help out here. Surely there is at least one good positive
reason to vote for him ... isn't there?
Actually yes, there is: He isn't a sniveling Liberal!
El Loco
of any US Senator. As for being sniveling, that's self evident.
==========
"Hü©k Hö§hïmötö !" <huckleberr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0NIWc.11609$3O3....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Steveo
> What planet are you from? Kerry has the most liberal voting record
> of any US Senator. As for being sniveling, that's self evident.
No, his voting record is not the most liberal. The ACLU gives him a 47%
rating. Kennedy, on the other hand gets a 50% rating, and Boxer a 59%
rating. Americans for Democratic Action in 2003 gave Kerry an 85%
rating compared with 95% for Boxer, 100% for Sarbanes, 95% for Kennedy,
100% for Levin, 95% for Bingaman, 95% for Clinton, and 100% for Reed.
John Kerry, Horse's Ass
"Steveo" <ste...@enddick.com> wrote in message
news:uqKWc.1968$CI6...@chiapp18.algx.net...
> El Loco wrote:
>
> > What planet are you from? Kerry has the most liberal voting record
> > of any US Senator. As for being sniveling, that's self evident.
>
> No, his voting record is not the most liberal. The ACLU gives him a 47%
> rating. Kennedy, on the other hand gets a 50% rating, and Boxer a 59%
> rating. Americans for Democratic Action in 2003 gave Kerry an 85%
> rating compared with 95% for Boxer, 100% for Sarbanes, 95% for Kennedy,
> 100% for Levin, 95% for Bingaman, 95% for Clinton, and 100% for Reed.
Nice try. ADA gave Kerry a rating of 90%, not "85". Same as they gave
Kennedy - 90, not "95".
And they gave Boxer a rating of 85, not "95".
And the American Conservative Union gave Kerry a rating of only 12, same as
they gave Kennedy.
Roger
> What planet are you from? Kerry has the most liberal voting record
> of any US Senator. As for being sniveling, that's self evident.
Prove it.
Prove he's the most liberal.
And don't just repeat the BUSH line.
dave
Kerry did serve his nation (unlike Bush).
Kerry has national experience (unlike Bush before his "experience" of this
term).
Kerry has offered plans such as healthcare to help far more Americans than
Bush.
Kerry has had a career of serving and comes from a family that served our
nation (also unlike the Bush family that has traditionally served themselves
as much [if not more] as their country, such as his grandfather supporting
the Nazis and Dubya supporting his oil cronies).
Kerry will do better with job creation (of course YOU could do better than
Bush), better with the environment, better in negotiations, better for
seniors, better for labor, better for infrastructure, better to combat the
Bush deficit and better at governing in a democratic republic, where
cooperation and compromise work better than the "I can't hear you"
conservatives.
You have been listening to Limbaugh and Bush distortions rather than paying
any attention to the facts. Conservatives today have never met a fact that
they want to know about.
"El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10ildh3...@corp.supernews.com...
dave
"El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10imo5q...@corp.supernews.com...
Aegis
> Whoa their girl! You righties are the name callers.
>
> Kerry did serve his nation (unlike Bush).
Bush neither attacked (or even condoned the attacking thereof) Kerry's
record.
> Kerry has national experience (unlike Bush before his "experience" of this
> term).
Guess that puts them on even ground THIS term. One has quite a few years in
Congress and the other has 4 years in the Presidency.
> Kerry has offered plans such as healthcare to help far more Americans than
> Bush.
Kerry has offered a vague concept of improving healthcare, but has yet to
release specific details or "plans".
> Kerry has had a career of serving and comes from a family that served our
> nation (also unlike the Bush family that has traditionally served
> themselves
> as much [if not more] as their country, such as his grandfather supporting
> the Nazis and Dubya supporting his oil cronies).
Bush Sr. was a war hero, much like you purport Kerry to be. Families of the
candidates have no bearing, however, on this election. Your mother could be
a crack whore; does that mean what you have to say has no value?
> Kerry will do better with job creation (of course YOU could do better than
> Bush), better with the environment, better in negotiations, better for
> seniors, better for labor, better for infrastructure, better to combat the
> Bush deficit and better at governing in a democratic republic, where
> cooperation and compromise work better than the "I can't hear you"
> conservatives.
You are entitled to your opinion. Thank God the majority will disagree with
you.
>
> You have been listening to Limbaugh and Bush distortions rather than
> paying
> any attention to the facts. Conservatives today have never met a fact that
> they want to know about.
On the contrary, I search high and low for facts. Unfortunately, the liberal
front only offers opinions and accusations masked as facts.
dave
Four BAD years in the White House for Bush is NOT a plus.
Healthcare - not vague, READ the plan. VAGUE is Bush on a good day.
The Bush family has supported Nazis, bin Ladens and been generally
self-serving.
"Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:66TWc.5148$om....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
Aegis
> Bush HAS ALWAYS used surrogates to run dirty campaigns.
1) Prove it.
2) Even if you COULD prove it, you don't seem to have a problem with your
candidate doing the same thing (moveon.org).
> Four BAD years in the White House for Bush is NOT a plus.
You are correct. Four great years in the White House IS a plus. He'll get
four more.
> Healthcare - not vague, READ the plan.
Nice link you provided to this illusory "plan".
> VAGUE is Bush on a good day.
Mmmhmm... I notice he's not known for his "waffles".
> The Bush family has supported Nazis, bin Ladens and been generally
> self-serving.
Typical liberal: bin Laden family MUST be a brutish evil group! Nevermind
the fact that Osama's brother was a well-respected young man in America
before his death. Nevermind the fact that the entire bin Laden family has
denounced Osama's actions and expressed their disappointment in his chosen
path (WELL BEFORE 9/11, I might add).
Wow. According to YOUR logic, if one of your kids goes ballistic YOU are
just as guilty as the rogue sheep. It's exactly this [lack of] logic...this
utter CONTEMPT for the truth...this acting on pure emotion that pushed me
right out of the Democrat party and into the opposite camp.
Good job! Keep representing!
Miles Long
> "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
> news:UJ-dnWQuO4r...@gbronline.com...
>
>>Bush HAS ALWAYS used surrogates to run dirty campaigns.
>
>
> 1) Prove it.
> 2) Even if you COULD prove it, you don't seem to have a problem with your
> candidate doing the same thing (moveon.org).
>
Unfortunately, MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie
about this administration, nor its merry band of men and women. And,
while we're on the subject, neither did Michael Moore in F9/11. What
has the handful of Republicans and Conservatives who actually it so up
in arms is that the content of F9/11 consists primarily of Boy George
and the rest damning themselves with their own words, on tape, on film
and in writing.
>
>>Four BAD years in the White House for Bush is NOT a plus.
>
>
> You are correct. Four great years in the White House IS a plus. He'll get
> four more.
>
Great only if you make over $300,000 a year, or are a bosom buddy of
Boy George or his puppet master. Otherwise, not so much! <laughing>
>
>>Healthcare - not vague, READ the plan.
>
>
> Nice link you provided to this illusory "plan".
>
>
>>VAGUE is Bush on a good day.
>
>
> Mmmhmm... I notice he's not known for his "waffles".
>
Actually, he is. And boy are they doozies!
Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.
Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.
Bush is against a WMD investigation; then he's for it.
Bush is against nation building; then he's for it. (Even before 9/11 it
was part of his foreign policy, PNAC. So drop the "everything changed
after 9/11" malarky.)
Bush said he'll provide money for first responders (emergency services);
then he doesn't.
Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.
Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's
against them again.
Bush said he'll reduce Greenhouse gases; then doesn't do it.
Bush is for a patient's bill of rights then; then he fights against it.
Bush say that "help is on the way" to the military; then he cuts benefits.
Bush talks about helping education; then he cuts funding.
Bush says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea; then he says we will.
Bush campaigns at racist Bob Jones University; then says he shouldn't have.
Bush says he will demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to
sanction military action against Iraq; then he announces he won't call
for a vote.
Bush says the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the Navy; then
he admits it was his advance team.
Bush is for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US;
then he's against it.
Bush is for a state's right to decide on gay marriage; then he's for
amending the constitution to prevent it.
>
>>The Bush family has supported Nazis, bin Ladens and been generally
>>self-serving.
>
>
> Typical liberal: bin Laden family MUST be a brutish evil group! Nevermind
> the fact that Osama's brother was a well-respected young man in America
> before his death. Nevermind the fact that the entire bin Laden family has
> denounced Osama's actions and expressed their disappointment in his chosen
> path (WELL BEFORE 9/11, I might add).
>
Not so:
http://www.binladenfamily.com/BinLadenEvidence.html
"There is proof that a few rogue members are still in contact with Osama
and may hold dangerously similar political beliefs. The lingering fear
is whether or not this means Osama still has some sort of financial link
to the family or even, through them, access to the corridors of power in
Saudi Arabia and beyond." (Neil MacKay, "Family Ties; The Bin Ladens",
The Sunday Herald, October 7, 2001)
> Wow. According to YOUR logic, if one of your kids goes ballistic YOU are
> just as guilty as the rogue sheep.
Only so if the child is under the age of majority. A lack of
accountability in parents for their children's actions is the main
reason for the current decline of American culture. However, in the
case of a full-grown man who's family has maintained substantive
contact with a rogue criminal, then some degree of responsibility,
culpability even, isn't out of the question.
> It's exactly this [lack of] logic...this
> utter CONTEMPT for the truth...this acting on pure emotion that pushed me
> right out of the Democrat party and into the opposite camp.
>
Given your obvious lack of cogent reasoning, thank you for having the
altruistic sense to leave the party and not continue to water it down.
Even though the Democratic Party has always had that Big Tent
atmosphere, lately, with the country going so quickly in the crapper
in three short years, we're having to cull those who didn't join it
from the deep end of the gene pool in order to gird our loins for the
battle to repair the damage done to the US by GW and company, beginning
January 21st.
> Good job! Keep representing!
>
No, thank YOU for playing, better luck next time!
Miles "Smack-Talking Folks From the Right Really Are
The Prime Examples of the Dumbing of America" Long
Roger
news:6de4d$412c1b7f$4069ee8e$21...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
> Aegis wrote:
>
> > "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
> > news:UJ-dnWQuO4r...@gbronline.com...
> >
> >>Bush HAS ALWAYS used surrogates to run dirty campaigns.
> >
> >
> > 1) Prove it.
> > 2) Even if you COULD prove it, you don't seem to have a problem with
your
> > candidate doing the same thing (moveon.org).
> >
>
> Unfortunately, MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie
> about this administration, nor its merry band of men and women. And,
> while we're on the subject, neither did Michael Moore in F9/11. What
> has the handful of Republicans and Conservatives who actually it so up
> in arms is that the content of F9/11 consists primarily of Boy George
> and the rest damning themselves with their own words, on tape, on film
> and in writing.
But they don't like what they say!
It must be lies.
El Loco
And what the hell is this?
"who actually it so up in arms is that the content of"
Learn how to complete a sentence. You are embarrassing yourself.
=========
"Miles Long" <Mi...@home.net> wrote in message news:6de4d$412c1b7f$4069ee8e$21...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
Miles Long
> "MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie"
> What planet are you from?
>
> And what the hell is this?
> "who actually it so up in arms is that the content of"
> Learn how to complete a sentence. You are embarrassing yourself.
> =========
<laughing hysterically>
That's all you've got? And top posting to boot! Next time
try not to look so stupid and then draw so much attention to
yourself. And don't worry, everyone will be reading below to
see just how shallow and insipid your thinking was.
Miles "Yet Another Victim of the Dumbing Down of America" Long"
George Washington Hayduke
>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>news:ndOdnZa8z7B...@gbronline.com...
>> Kerry has national experience (unlike Bush before his "experience" of this
>> term).
>Guess that puts them on even ground THIS term. One has quite a few years in
>Congress and the other has 4 years in the Presidency.
<laughing> Yes, and his atrocities against America and the rest of the
world together with his loss of 3 million American jobs during those 4
years is what's going to get this unelected butcher ejected from the
White House on January 20'th.
+--+
|George W. Bush is a deserter: http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm
|Fascist War Criminal to stand trial: http://www.PeopleJudgeBush.org
|Hezbollah endorses George W. Bush: http://www.hezbollah.ws/
+--+
George Washington Hayduke
>"MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie"
>What planet are you from?
Ah, good, then you should have no trouble coming up with a reference
for one, right?
Well? What's wrong? Is there some reason why you can't?
dave
"Miles Long" <Mi...@home.net> wrote in message
news:6de4d$412c1b7f$4069ee8e$21...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
Miles, thanks for your more involved response, but Loco is loco, and from
his name alone, I knew Aegis was just a shell. People like those two have
their heads so full of fertilizer there's no room for any thoughts to grow.
Everything you posted, and as you said Moveon.org ads as well, is true about
Bush. Nixon had his "enemies" list, his thugs and his disgrace, but EVEN
Nixon had more respect for our Constitution and the American people than
Bush does.
On the Bush "States' Rights" position, Bush has used it for the old "race
card" issue that it has been, he has used it as a wedge issue at every
opportunity, whether civil unions/marriages, environmental issues, labor
issues, a woman's choice, you name it, he agreed with States' Rights ONLY if
he agrees, and opposed ANYTHING that doesn't soothe his voting block, be
they ranting fundamentalists or corporate thieves.
Bush has always talked a good bj for those Cons who are allergic to facts,
and he has failed in military service, business and government unless
someone else has bailed him out. It is amazing that ANYONE could support
this menace, but then people supported Hitler, Idi Amin, Sadam and other
human waste as bad and some worse than Bush.
El Loco
Here's the list"
...
=============
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message news:10ipg0e...@corp.supernews.com...
El Loco
can do is Bash Bush. You can't post a single good positive reason to vote for
J. "Fraud" Kerry.
Here are my top10 good positive reasons to vote for Kerry:
1. He's not George Bush - No wait that's not a positive reason.
2. His record of valor in Viet Nam - No wait, that has been completely refuted.
3. His record of achievement in the US Senate - No wait, he doesn't have a
record of achievement in the Senate.
4. His support for the war against terrorism - No wait, he hasn't helped at all.
5. His efforts to lower taxes on the middle class - No wait, he's never tried that.
6. His solid stance on all the issues - No wait, he's "waffled" on every issue.
7. His openness with his medical and tax records - No wait, he refuses to
disclose those.
8.
9.
10.
Damn! Let' see, he lacks Jimmy Carter's brains, Bill Clinton's ethics, Al Gore's grip on reality
and Michael Dukakas' charisma. I can't think of a single good positive reason to vote for him.
C'mon libs. Help out here. Surely there is at least one good positive reason to vote for him ... isn't there?
==========
"Miles Long" <Mi...@home.net> wrote in message news:47008$412cac05$4069ee8e$31...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
dave
"El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10iqee4...@corp.supernews.com...
Aegis
"Miles Long" <Mi...@home.net> wrote in message
news:6de4d$412c1b7f$4069ee8e$21...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
>> "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>> news:UJ-dnWQuO4r...@gbronline.com...
>>
>>>Bush HAS ALWAYS used surrogates to run dirty campaigns.
>>
>>
>> 1) Prove it.
>> 2) Even if you COULD prove it, you don't seem to have a problem with your
>> candidate doing the same thing (moveon.org).
>>
>
> Unfortunately, MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie
> about this administration, nor its merry band of men and women. And,
> while we're on the subject, neither did Michael Moore in F9/11. What
> has the handful of Republicans and Conservatives who actually it so up
> in arms is that the content of F9/11 consists primarily of Boy George
> and the rest damning themselves with their own words, on tape, on film
> and in writing.
MoveOn.org not lying: Neither are the Swiftboat Vets
Fahrenheit 9/11: Moore didn't lie? Well ok... He just splices sentences from
speeches together to change the order and contextual meaning of the words
and phrases. With enough footage, he could make YOU say all kinds of things
too. THIS is part of what has the Right "up in arms".
>
>>
>>>Four BAD years in the White House for Bush is NOT a plus.
>>
>>
>> You are correct. Four great years in the White House IS a plus. He'll get
>> four more.
>>
>
> Great only if you make over $300,000 a year, or are a bosom buddy of
> Boy George or his puppet master. Otherwise, not so much! <laughing>
You're entitled to your opinion (I know... YOU, not ME... Got it... Thanks.)
Read it... Saw no evidence of wrong-doing by any bin Ladens other than
Osama.
> "There is proof that a few rogue members are still in contact with Osama
> and may hold dangerously similar political beliefs. The lingering fear is
> whether or not this means Osama still has some sort of financial link to
> the family or even, through them, access to the corridors of power in
> Saudi Arabia and beyond." (Neil MacKay, "Family Ties; The Bin Ladens", The
> Sunday Herald, October 7, 2001)
>
Proof that some of his family share may some of his beliefs!?! Say it isn't
so! Oh that's right... They aren't ALLOWED to have beliefs that conflict
with yours... Sorry again...
"Lingering fear...": Valid fear, but it's just that at the moment... a fear.
Give proof of the family helping Osama or you've got nothing but conjecture.
>> Wow. According to YOUR logic, if one of your kids goes ballistic YOU are
>> just as guilty as the rogue sheep.
>
> Only so if the child is under the age of majority. A lack of
> accountability in parents for their children's actions is the main
> reason for the current decline of American culture. However, in the
> case of a full-grown man who's family has maintained substantive
> contact with a rogue criminal, then some degree of responsibility,
> culpability even, isn't out of the question.
Wow... You sound very anti-liberal... Libs are usually all about NOT holding
people responsible.. ("It's not HIS fault! His daddy beat him 40 years ago!
You can't imprison the man for being messed up by his daddy!") Yes... Yes I
can... And if daddy was still around, I could hold HIM responsible too. THEN
come the libs... Flowers for daddy and freedom for the psycho son.
>
>> It's exactly this [lack of] logic...this utter CONTEMPT for the
>> truth...this acting on pure emotion that pushed me right out of the
>> Democrat party and into the opposite camp.
>>
>
> Given your obvious lack of cogent reasoning, thank you for having the
> altruistic sense to leave the party and not continue to water it down.
You've seen no or no evidence, either way, of my cogent reasoning. Are you
some sort of supra-psychiatrist?
>
> Even though the Democratic Party has always had that Big Tent
> atmosphere, lately, with the country going so quickly in the crapper
> in three short years, we're having to cull those who didn't join it
> from the deep end of the gene pool in order to gird our loins for the
> battle to repair the damage done to the US by GW and company, beginning
> January 21st.
>
>> Good job! Keep representing!
>>
>
> No, thank YOU for playing, better luck next time!
>
> Miles "Smack-Talking Folks From the Right Really Are
> The Prime Examples of the Dumbing of America" Long
Oh I see... If you express your opinions, you are smart and, of course,
infallibly right. When someone, with whom you happen to disagree with,
expresses theirs, they are "talking smack" and "dumb".
dave
> What everyone will notice is that you and all the other panty wearing,
pussy libs
> can do is Bash Bush. You can't post a single good positive reason to vote
for
> J. "Fraud" Kerry.
>
> Here are my top10 good positive reasons to vote for Kerry:
>
Hmmm, lets see
1. Bush is damaging our economy
2. Bush is damaging our federal budget by creating the largest and most
irresponsibly deficit in history.
3. Bush is not providing for students and is leaving children behind.
4. Bush is not providing for first responders to improve American security.
5. Bush DID take us to war using lies and distortions.
6. Bush is doing what he can to increase corporate profits at the expense of
the citizens.
7. Bush is pulling a lie on Seniors counting on Medicare.
8. Bush has lost more jobs than any President since Hoover.
9. Bush is damaging the rights of labor.
10. Bush is NOT acting as representative of a majority of American, in other
words he's been as unPresidential as anyone in history.
11. Bush is NOT keeping his promises such as the bogus ROAD MAP.
12. Bush is NOT doing anything to promote energy independence.
13. Bush is NOT doing anything to protect the environment.
Ah gee, there's nothing positive there for Bush. No vote there.
Miles Long
> "Miles Long" <Mi...@home.net> wrote in message
> news:6de4d$412c1b7f$4069ee8e$21...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
>>Aegis wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>>news:UJ-dnWQuO4r...@gbronline.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bush HAS ALWAYS used surrogates to run dirty campaigns.
>>>
>>>
>>>1) Prove it.
>>>2) Even if you COULD prove it, you don't seem to have a problem with your
>>>candidate doing the same thing (moveon.org).
>>>
>>
>>Unfortunately, MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie
>>about this administration, nor its merry band of men and women. And,
>>while we're on the subject, neither did Michael Moore in F9/11. What
>>has the handful of Republicans and Conservatives who actually it so up
>>in arms is that the content of F9/11 consists primarily of Boy George
>>and the rest damning themselves with their own words, on tape, on film
>>and in writing.
>
>
> MoveOn.org not lying: Neither are the Swiftboat Vets
Unfortunately for you, while you were sleeping the press, print
and written, have completely debunked every single SBVFT spokes
persons "testimony." None have debunked a single thing broadcast
by MoveOn.org or F9/11. Believe me, it would be front page news.
Not me. The malaise of the last century was the breakdown of
accountability in all segments of culture, work, play, law and
government. The carry over with GW not taking responsibility for
the disasters his administration has fostered is just an extension
of the denial of accountability born in the middle Seventies.
>
>
>>>It's exactly this [lack of] logic...this utter CONTEMPT for the
>>>truth...this acting on pure emotion that pushed me right out of the
>>>Democrat party and into the opposite camp.
>>>
>>
>>Given your obvious lack of cogent reasoning, thank you for having the
>>altruistic sense to leave the party and not continue to water it down.
>
>
> You've seen no or no evidence, either way, of my cogent reasoning. Are you
> some sort of supra-psychiatrist?
>
Yes.
And, the above sentence is kind of poorly constructed too. (I'm
also a published writer as well.)
>
>>Even though the Democratic Party has always had that Big Tent
>>atmosphere, lately, with the country going so quickly in the crapper
>>in three short years, we're having to cull those who didn't join it
>>from the deep end of the gene pool in order to gird our loins for the
>>battle to repair the damage done to the US by GW and company, beginning
>>January 21st.
>>
>>
>>>Good job! Keep representing!
>>>
>>
>>No, thank YOU for playing, better luck next time!
>>
>>Miles "Smack-Talking Folks From the Right Really Are
>>The Prime Examples of the Dumbing of America" Long
>
>
> Oh I see... If you express your opinions, you are smart and, of course,
> infallibly right. When someone, with whom you happen to disagree with,
> expresses theirs, they are "talking smack" and "dumb".
>
I think you missed the point. <see no sarcasm for the easy lay-up>
The point was that your arguments are not based on fact. They were
based on the opinions and commentary of others. I one the other hand
have seen all the commercials from both camps and the 537s. I have
seen F9/11, Outfoxed, Control Room, etc. and have done my homework on
the issues at hand. I studied the assertions from each spokes person
in the SBVFT group and contrasted them with their earlier (30 years ago)
certifications, reports and statements made on various television shows
then and now, seeing their changes, and now discovered lies.
I will say in your own defense that you may lack the time or research
tools and skills I have, making such study difficult or impossible for
you to do. In that case you may have to rely on a third-party source
for your information. However, when you do so you take on the same
burden of proof, the same liability, the same taint of those you echo.
And, as such, people will judge you shallow, foolish, brilliant, etc.
by extension. In this thread you shot off your mouth on factual matters
that do not bear up under even casual scrutiny. The factual items you
put forth I refuted, the op-ed pieces I could have had fun with, how
ever the phrase from boot camp held me back: "Too easy, Drill Sargent!"
I invite you to examine, if you have the time, something other than
the same sources of political, cultural, economic and international
news and commentary that you habitually use, you may be surprised to
learn what's out there.
Miles "The Doctor Is In" Long
Roger
> "MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie"
> What planet are you from?
The one where honorable people prove what they say.
Here's your chance.
Prove they've lied:
--------------------------------------
George Washington Hayduke
>It much easier to cite all the truths published by MoveOn.org.
>Here's the list"
As predicted: The rightard moron has nothing.
Another victim of the grand dumbing down of America clocks in for Bush.
>...
>=============
>"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message news:10ipg0e...@corp.supernews.com...
>> "El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>"MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie"
>>>What planet are you from?
>> Ah, good, then you should have no trouble coming up with a reference
>> for one, right?
>> Well? What's wrong? Is there some reason why you can't?
+--+
|George W. Bush is a deserter: http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm
|Fascist War Criminal to stand trial: http://www.PeopleJudgeBush.org
|Hezbollah endorses George W. Bush: http://www.hezbollah.ws/
|"You can take my gun when you pry it out of my child's cold dead fingers"
+--+
Aegis
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
> "El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It much easier to cite all the truths published by MoveOn.org.
>>Here's the list"
>
> As predicted: The rightard moron has nothing.
>
> Another victim of the grand dumbing down of America clocks in for Bush.
>
I see name calling for attention as a component of the "dumbing down of
America". I also see accusations without proof as the same (such as Kerry
claiming Bush is behind the SwiftVet ads).
Aegis
> Aegis wrote:
>
>> "Miles Long" <Mi...@home.net> wrote in message
>> news:6de4d$412c1b7f$4069ee8e$21...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>
>>>Aegis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:UJ-dnWQuO4r...@gbronline.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bush HAS ALWAYS used surrogates to run dirty campaigns.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1) Prove it.
>>>>2) Even if you COULD prove it, you don't seem to have a problem with
>>>>your candidate doing the same thing (moveon.org).
>>>>
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, MoveOn.org has not published or broadcast a single lie
>>>about this administration, nor its merry band of men and women. And,
>>>while we're on the subject, neither did Michael Moore in F9/11. What
>>>has the handful of Republicans and Conservatives who actually it so up
>>>in arms is that the content of F9/11 consists primarily of Boy George
>>>and the rest damning themselves with their own words, on tape, on film
>>>and in writing.
>>
>>
>> MoveOn.org not lying: Neither are the Swiftboat Vets
>
> Unfortunately for you, while you were sleeping the press, print
> and written, have completely debunked every single SBVFT spokes
> persons "testimony." None have debunked a single thing broadcast
> by MoveOn.org or F9/11. Believe me, it would be front page news.
"Debunk" does not equal "disprove". At best, it casts shadow of doubt on the
issues, but does not eliminate them. MoveOn.org only makes accusations with,
yes, some supportive evidence, but they never actually prove their claims.
>>
>> Fahrenheit 9/11: Moore didn't lie? Well ok... He just splices sentences
>> from speeches together to change the order and contextual meaning of the
>> words and phrases. With enough footage, he could make YOU say all kinds
>> of things too. THIS is part of what has the Right "up in arms".
>>
F9/11 DID distort the facts to Moore's personal own ends.
http://www.mooreexposed.com/
I agree with you here. However, as I see no evidence of Kerry being any
different in this respect, this point does not sway my vote either way.
>>
>>
>>>>It's exactly this [lack of] logic...this utter CONTEMPT for the
>>>>truth...this acting on pure emotion that pushed me right out of the
>>>>Democrat party and into the opposite camp.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Given your obvious lack of cogent reasoning, thank you for having the
>>>altruistic sense to leave the party and not continue to water it down.
>>
>>
>> You've seen no or no evidence, either way, of my cogent reasoning. Are
>> you some sort of supra-psychiatrist?
>>
>
> Yes.
Are you egomaniacal? ...or just being funny? (Note the "supra" prefix)
>
> And, the above sentence is kind of poorly constructed too. (I'm
> also a published writer as well.)
My grammar isn't perfect. However, I never claimed it was.
>
>>
>>>Even though the Democratic Party has always had that Big Tent
>>>atmosphere, lately, with the country going so quickly in the crapper
>>>in three short years, we're having to cull those who didn't join it
>>>from the deep end of the gene pool in order to gird our loins for the
>>>battle to repair the damage done to the US by GW and company, beginning
>>>January 21st.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Good job! Keep representing!
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, thank YOU for playing, better luck next time!
>>>
>>>Miles "Smack-Talking Folks From the Right Really Are
>>>The Prime Examples of the Dumbing of America" Long
>>
>>
>> Oh I see... If you express your opinions, you are smart and, of course,
>> infallibly right. When someone, with whom you happen to disagree with,
>> expresses theirs, they are "talking smack" and "dumb".
>>
>
> I think you missed the point. <see no sarcasm for the easy lay-up>
> The point was that your arguments are not based on fact. They were
> based on the opinions and commentary of others. I one the other hand
An argument is invalid if it based, wholly or in part, on opinion? That's a
new one on me.
> have seen all the commercials from both camps and the 537s. I have
> seen F9/11, Outfoxed, Control Room, etc. and have done my homework on
> the issues at hand. I studied the assertions from each spokes person
> in the SBVFT group and contrasted them with their earlier (30 years ago)
> certifications, reports and statements made on various television shows
> then and now, seeing their changes, and now discovered lies.
>
> I will say in your own defense that you may lack the time or research
> tools and skills I have, making such study difficult or impossible for
> you to do. In that case you may have to rely on a third-party source
> for your information. However, when you do so you take on the same
> burden of proof, the same liability, the same taint of those you echo.
> And, as such, people will judge you shallow, foolish, brilliant, etc.
> by extension. In this thread you shot off your mouth on factual matters
> that do not bear up under even casual scrutiny. The factual items you
> put forth I refuted, the op-ed pieces I could have had fun with, how
> ever the phrase from boot camp held me back: "Too easy, Drill Sargent!"
No. What I did was express my opinions based on the facts I've been exposed
to and how I interpret them. You can't claim to do any different.
>
> I invite you to examine, if you have the time, something other than
> the same sources of political, cultural, economic and international
> news and commentary that you habitually use, you may be surprised to
> learn what's out there.
I'm always searching for new sources.
Miles Long
www.mooreexposed.com - not so much. Try this...
Factual Back-Up For Fahrenheit 9/11: Section One
Section One covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from the 2000 election
to George W. Bush's extended visit to Booker Elementary on the morning
of September 11th.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Fox was the first network to call Florida for Bush.
Before that, some other networks had called Florida for Gore, and they
changed after Fox called it for Bush.
“With information provided from the Voter News Service, NBC was the
first network to project Gore the winner in Florida at 7:48 pm. At 7:50
pm ,CNN and CBS project Gore the winner in Florida as well.” By 8:02 pm
, all five networks and the Associated Press had called Gore the winner
in Florida. Even the VNS called Gore the winner at 7:52 pm. At 2:16 am,
Fox calls Florida for Bush, NBC follows at 2:16 am. ABC is the last
network to call the Florida for Bush, at 2:20 am, while AP and VNS never
call Florida for Bush. CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/02/02/cnn.report/cnn.pdf Ten
minutes after the top of the hour, network excitement was again
beginning to build. At 2:16 a.m., the call was made: Fox News Channel,
with Bush's first cousin John Ellis running its election desk, was the
first to project Florida -- and the presidency -- for the Texas
governor. Within minutes, the other networks followed suit. "George
Bush, Governor of Texas will become the 43rd President of the United
States," CNN's Bernard Shaw announced atop a graphic montage of a
smiling Bush. "At 18 minutes past two o'clock Eastern time, CNN declares
that George Walker Bush has won Florida's 25 electoral votes and this
should put him over the top."PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/election2000/election_night.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The man who was in charge of the decision desk at FOX
on election night was Bush’s first cousin, John Ellis.
“John Ellis, a first cousin of George W. Bush, ran the network's
‘decision desk’ during the 2000 election, and Fox was the first to name
Bush the winner. Earlier, Ellis had made six phone calls to Cousin Bush
during the vote-counting.” William O’Rourke, “Talk Radio Key to GOP
Victory,” Chicago Sun-Times, December 3, 2002. A Fox News consultant,
John Ellis, who made judgments about presidential ‘calls’ on Election
Night admits he was in touch with George W. Bush and FL Gov. Jeb Bush by
telephone several times during the night, but denies breaking any rules.
CNN, November 14, 2000;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/14/politics/main249357.shtml.
John Ellis, the Fox consultant who called Florida early for George Bush,
had to stop writing about the campaign for the Boston Globe because of
family ‘loyalty’ to Bush. CBS News,
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/14/politics/main249357.shtml,
November 14, 2000. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Make sure the chairman of your
campaign is also the vote countin’ woman and that her state has hired a
company that’s gonna knock voters off the rolls who aren’t likely to
vote for you. You can usually tell them by the color of their skin.”
“The vote total was certified by Florida's secretary of state, Katherine
Harris, head of the Bush campaign in Florida, on behalf of Gov. Jeb
Bush, the candidate's brother.” Mark Zoller Seitz, “Bush Team Conveyed
an Air of Legitimacy,” San Diego Union-Tribune, December 16, 2000. The
Florida Department of State awarded a $4 million contract to the Boca
Raton-based Database Technologies Inc. (subsidiary of ChoicePoint).
They were tasked with finding improperly registered voters in the
state’s database, but mistakes were rampant. “At one point, the list
included as felons 8,000 former Texas residents who had been convicted
of misdemeanors.” St. Petersburg Times (Florida), December 21, 2003.
Database Technologies, a subsidiary of ChoicePoint, “was responsible for
bungling an overhaul of Florida’s voter registration records, with the
result that thousands of people, disproportionately black, were
disenfranchised in the 2000 election. Had they been able to vote, they
might have swung the state, and thus the presidency, for Al Gore, who
lost in Florida. Oliver Burkeman, Jo Tuckman, “Firm in Florida Election
Fiasco Earns Millions from Files on Foreigners,” The Guardian, May 5,
2003 http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,949709,00.html. See
also, Atlanta-Journal-Constitution, May 28, 2001. In 1997, Rick Rozar,
the late head of the company bought by ChoicePoint, donated $100,000 to
the Republican National Committee. Melanie Eversley, “Atlanta-Based
Company Says Errors in Felon Purge Not Its Fault,” Atlanta
Journal-Constitution, May 28, 2001. Frank Borman of Database
Technologies Inc. has donated extensively to New Mexico Republicans, as
well as to the Presidential campaign of George W. Bush. Opensecrets.org,
“Frank Borman.” FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Gore got the most votes in 2000.
[A] consortium [Tribune Co., owner of the Times; Associated Press; CNN;
the New York Times; the Palm Beach Post; the St. Petersburg Times; the
Wall Street Journal; and the Washington Post] hired the NORC [National
Opinion Research Center, a nonpartisan research organization affiliated
with the University of Chicago] to view each untallied ballot and gather
information about how it was marked. The media organizations then used
computers to sort and tabulate votes, based on varying scenarios that
had been raised during the post-election scramble in Florida. Under any
standard that tabulated all disputed votes statewide, Mr. Gore erased
Mr. Bush's advantage and emerged with a tiny lead that ranged from 42 to
171 votes. Donald Lambro, “Recount Provides No Firm Answers,”
Washington Times, November 12, 2001. “The review found that the result
would have been different if every canvassing board in every county had
examined every undervote, a situation that no election or court
authority had ordered. Gore had called for such a statewide manual
recount if Bush would agree, but Bush rejected the idea and there was no
mechanism in place to conduct one.” Martin Merzer, “Review of Ballots
Finds Bush's Win Would Have Endured Manual Recount,” Miami Herald, April
4, 2001. See also, the following article by one of the Washington Post
journalists who ran the consortium recount. The relevant point is made
in Table I of the article.
http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf FAHRENHEIT 9/11:
Congressional Black Caucus members tried to object to the election
outcome on the floor of the House; no Senator would sign the objections.
“While Vice President Al Gore appeared to have accepted his fate
contained in two wooden ballot boxes, Democratic members of the
Congressional Black Caucus tried repeatedly to challenge the assignment
of Florida's 25 electoral votes to Bush…. More than a dozen Democrats
followed suit, seeking to force a debate on the validity of Florida's
vote on the grounds that all votes may not have been counted and that
some voters were wrongly denied the right to vote.” Susan Milligan,
“It’s Really Over: Gore Bows Out Gracefully,” Boston Globe, January 7,
2001. The Congressional Black Caucus effort failed for “lack of the
necessary signature by any senator.” Sen. Minority Leader Tom Daschle
(D-SD) had previously advised Democratic senators not to cooperate.
‘They did not.’” Robert Novak, “Sweeney Link Won't Help Chao,” Chicago
Sun-Times, January 14, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “On the day George W.
Bush was inaugurated, tens of thousands of Americans poured into the
streets of D.C. They pelted Bush’s limo with eggs.”
“Shouting slogans like ‘Hail to the Thief’ and ‘Selected, Not Elected,’
tens of thousands of protesters descended on George W. Bush's inaugural
parade route yesterday to proclaim that he and Vice President Dick
Cheney had ‘stolen’ the election.” Michael Kranish and Sue Kirchhoff,
“Thousands Protest ‘Stolen’ Election,” Boston Globe, January 21, 2001.
“Scuffles erupted between radicals and riot police while an egg struck
the bullet-proof presidential limousine as it carried Mr. Bush and wife
Laura to the White House.” Damon Johnston, “Bush Pledges Justice as
Critics Throw Eggs,” The Advertisers, January 22, 2001. See also film
footage. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “The inauguration parade was brought to a halt
and the traditional walk to the White House was scrapped.”
Bush made one concession to the weather -- or to security concerns: He
stayed in his limousine nearly the entire length of the mile-long
inaugural parade, waving through a slightly foggy window. He got out to
walk only for a brief distance when his motorcade reached the VIP
grandstands in front of the Treasury Department and the White House.
Doyle McManus, et al., “Bush Vows to Bring Nation Together,” Los Angeles
Times, January, 21, 2001. Bush's limo, which traveled most of the route
at a slow walking pace, stopped dead just before it reached the corner
of 14th St. and Pennsylvania Ave., where most of the protesters had
congregated. Then it sped up dramatically, and Secret Service agents
protecting the car on foot had to follow at a full run. When they
reached a section of the parade route where the sidewalks were
restricted to official ticketholders, Bush and his wife, Laura, who wore
a flattering electric turquoise suit, got out of the limo to walk and
greet supporters. Helen Kennedy, “Bush Pledges a United US,” New York
Daily News, January 21, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “For the next eight
months, it didn’t get any better for George W. Bush.”
In a poll conducted September 5 to September 9, 2001, Investor’s
Business Daily and the Christian Science Monitor showed President Bush’s
approval rating at 45%, down from 52% in May ( Investor’s Business
Daily/Christian Science Monitor Poll, conducted by TIPP, 9/5 to 9/9,
2001). Zogby’s polling had Bush at 47% in late July 2001, down from 57%
in February (Zogby, 7/26 to 7/29, 2001). In June 2001, a Wall Street
Journal/NBC News poll showed President Bush's approval rating at 50
percent, which was the lowest presidential approval rating in five
years. Richard L. Berke, “G.O.P. Defends Bush in Face of Dip in Poll
Ratings,” The New York Times, June 29 2001 On July 26, 2001, in an
article entitled “Bush Lacks the Ability To Force Action on Hill,” Dana
Milbank of the Washington Post wrote, “ It may be premature to conclude
that Bush has lost control of his agenda, but lawmakers and strategists
in both parties said that Bush's next year is much more likely to look
like the fractious month of July than like the orderly march toward
Bush's tax cut this spring.… The troubles began, of course, with Vermont
Sen. James M. Jeffords' departure from the GOP, giving control of the
Senate to the Democrats. But the problems are nearly as bad in the
House, where moderates who supported Bush's tax cut are proving
recalcitrant on other issues. They rebelled against GOP leaders on
campaign finance reform and held up Bush's "faith-based" legislation
over concerns about discrimination. Next week, they're likely to oppose
Bush's proposal to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.”
California energy crisis also took a toll on Bush’s approval ratings.
Due to rolling blackouts and rising utility bills Bush’s ratings took a
toll among Californians. The poll showed that almost as many
Californians disapproved of the President’s job as approved of it with
an approve/disapprove of 42/40. “Calif. Governor Says He'll Sue to Force
Government Action,” The Houston Chronicle, May 30, 2001. FAHRENHEIT
9/11: “In his first eight months in office before September 11, George
W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post, forty-two
percent of the time.”
“News coverage has pointedly stressed that W.'s month-long stay at his
ranch in Crawford is the longest presidential vacation in 32 years.
Washington Post supercomputers calculated that if you add up all his
weekends at Camp David, layovers at Kennebunkport and assorted to-ing
and fro-ing, W. will have spent 42 percent of his presidency ‘at
vacation spots or en route.’” Charles Krauthammer, “A Vacation Bush
Deserves,” The Washington Post, August 10, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bush
relaxes at Camp David, Kennebunkport and his ranch in Crawford Texas.
As of April 2004, President Bush had made 33 trips to Crawford during
his presidency, bringing his total to more than 230 days at the ranch in
just over three years. “Add his 78 trips to Camp David and five to his
family’s compound at Kennebunkport, Maine, and Bush has spent all or
part of 500 days – or about 40 percent of his presidency – at one of
these his three retreats.” “Bush Retreats to a Favorite Getaway:
Crawford ranch,” Houston Chronicle, April 11, 2004. FAHRENHEIT 9/11:
On Sept. 10, 2001 , Bush joined his brother in Florida where he slept
the night in “a bed made of fine French linens.”
Bush has not been bashful about visiting Florida, ground zero in the
vote-recount battle that followed last year's election. On this trip,
he was spending a good deal of time with his brother, Gov. Jeb Bush. "
President to Push Congress on Education in Fourth Florida Visit,”
Associated Press, September 10, 2001; See also, CNN Inside Politics,
September 10, 2001. Two individuals prepared the president’s room “and
made the bed with some of the family's fine French linens.” Tom Bayles,
“The Day Before Everything Changed, President Bush Touched Locals'
Lives,” Sarasota Herald-Tribune, September 10, 2002. FAHRENHEIT 9/11:
“As the attack took place, Mr. Bush was on his way to an elementary
school in Florida . When informed of the first plane hitting the World
Trade Center, where terrorists had struck just eight years prior, Bush
just decided to go ahead with his photo opportunity.”
NOTE: It should be emphasized that at the time Bush was notified of the
first plane attack, he (unlike the rest of America) was already aware
that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking
airplanes, per the August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief (PDB). He
was also aware, of course, that the World Trade Center had been
historically a target for terrorist attacks. He nonetheless went ahead
with this photo opportunity in a school full of children.
“Mr. Bush arrived at the school, just before 9 am, expecting to be met
by its motherly principal, Gwen Rigell. Instead he was pulled sharply
aside by the familiar, bulky figure of 51-year-old Karl Rove, a veteran
political fixer and trusted aide of both Mr. Bush and his father,
George Sr. Mr. Rove, a fellow Texan with an expansive manner and a
colorful turn of phrase, told the President that a large commercial
airliner (American Flight 11) had crashed into the North Tower of the
World Trade Centre . Mr. Bush clenched his teeth, lowered his bottom
lip and said something inaudible. Then he went into the school.”
William Langley, “Revealed: What Really Went on During Bush’s ‘Missing
Hours,’” The Telegraph, December 16, 2001.
“The airborne attack on the World Trade Center was at least the second
terrorist attempt to topple the landmarks. In 1993, terrorists sought to
bomb one building so that it would explode and fall into the other. The
plot did not succeed, but six people were killed and more than 1,000
injured.” Cragg Hines, “Terrorists Strike from Air; Jetliners Slam into
Pentagon, Trade Center” The Houston Chronicle, September 11, 2001.
August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief (PDB), “Bin Ladin Determined to
Strike Inside US”: “Al-Qa'ida members -- including some who are US
citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the US for years, and the
group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks…
FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious
activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or
other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal
buildings in New York.” August 6, 2001, Bin Ladin Determined to Strike
Inside US, http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “When the second plane hit the tower, his chief of
staff entered the classroom and told Mr. Bush the nation is under
attack.”
“At 9:05 a.m., the White House chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr.,
stepped into the classroom and whispered into the president's right ear,
‘A second plane hit the other tower, and America's under attack.’” David
E. Sanger and Don Van Natta Jr., “After The Attacks: The Events; In Four
Days, A National Crisis Changes Bush's Presidency,” The New York Times,
September 16, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Mr. Bush just sat there and
continued to read My Pet Goat.”
“It was while attending a second-grade reading class at Emma E. Booker
Elementary School in Sarasota, Fla., to promote his education reforms
that President Bush learned America was under attack. In the presence of
her VIP guest, teacher Sandra Kay Daniels, 45, conducted the day's
lesson, which centered on a story about a pet goat.” “9/11: A Year
After,” Los Angeles Times, September 11, 2002. President Bush listened
to 18 Booker Elementary School second-graders read a story about a
girl's pet goat Tuesday before he spoke briefly and somberly about the
terrorist attacks. “Bush hears of attack while visiting Booker,”
Sarasota Herald-Tribune, September 12, 2001. See also film footage.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Nearly seven minutes passed with nobody doing
anything.”
“[H]e lingered in the room for another six minutes [after being
informed of the second plane]… [At] 9:12, he abruptly retreated,
speaking to Mr. Cheney and New York officials.” David E. Sanger and Don
Van Natta Jr., “After The Attacks: The Events;In Four Days, A National
Crisis Changes Bush's Presidency,” The New York Times, September 16,
2001 . “Mr. Bush remained in the elementary school for nearly a half an
hour after Andy Card whispered in his ear.” Michael Kranish, “Bush: US
To Hunt Down Attackers,” Boston Globe, September 11, 2001.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
-- Impeachment was created for people like G.W Bush
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ "The big elephant sitting in the corner is
that George W. Bush is simply unqualified for the job... What's his
accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?" -Ronald Reagan Jr.
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Two
Section Two covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from Bush's failure to
meet with Richard Clarke, to the August 6th memo, and ends with the
Saudi flights out of the US after 9/11.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Should he have held at least one meeting since taking
office to discuss the threat of terrorism with his head of
counterterrorism?”
“[T]hey didn't allow me to brief him on terrorism. You know, they're
saying now that when I was afforded the opportunity to talk to him about
cybersecurity, it was my choice. I could have talked about terrorism or
cybersecurity. That's not true. I asked in January to brief him, the
president, on terrorism, to give him the same briefing I had given Vice
President Cheney, Colin Powell and Condi Rice. And I was told, ‘You
can't do that briefing, Dick, until after the policy development
process.’” Richard Clarke interview with Tim Russert on NBC’s Meet the
Press, March 28, 2004. "Clarke asked on several occasions for early
Principals Committee meetings on these issues [outlined in his January
25, 2001 memo] and was frustrated that no early meeting was scheduled.
He wanted principals to accept that al Qaeda was a ‘first order threat’
and not a routine problem being exaggerated by ‘chicken little’
alarmists. No Principals Committee meetings on al Qaeda were held until
September 4, 2001.” National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the
United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 8,
“National Policy Coordination,” pp 9-10;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing8/staff_statement_8.pdf
See Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on
Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004: MR. ROEMER:
Okay. Let's move into, with my 15 minutes, let's move into the Bush
administration. On January the 25th, we've seen a memo that you had
written to Dr. Rice, urgently asking for a principals review of al
Qaeda. You include helping the Northern Alliance, covert aid,
significant new '02 budget authority to help fight al Qaeda --
MR. CLARKE: Uh-huh.
MR. ROEMER: -- and response to the U.S.S. Cole. You attached to this
document both the Delenda Plan of 1998 and a strategy paper from
December 2000. Did you get a response to this urgent request for a
principals meeting on these, and how does this affect your time frame
for dealing with these important issues?
MR. CLARKE: I did geta response. The response was that in the Bush
administration I should, and my committee, the counterterrorism security
group, should report to the deputies committee, which is a sub-cabinet
level committee, and not to the principals, and that therefore it was
inappropriate for me to be asking for a principals meeting. Instead,
there would be a deputies meeting.
MR. ROEMER: So, does this slow the process down to go to the deputies
rather than to the principals or a small group, as you had previously
done?
MR. CLARKE: It slowed it down enormously, by months. First of all, the
deputies committee didn't meet urgently in January or February. Then,
when the deputies committee did meet, it took the issue of al Qaeda as
part of a cluster of policy issues, including nuclear proliferation in
South Asia, democratization in Pakistan, how to treat the problems, the
various problems, including narcotics and other problems in Afghanistan,
and, launched on a series of deputies meetings extending over several
months to address al Qaeda in the context of all of those interrelated
issues. That process probably ended, I think, in July of 2001, so we
were readying for a principals meeting in July, but the principals'
calendar was full, and then they went on vacation, many of them, in
August, so we couldn't meet in August, and therefore the principals met
in September.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Maybe Mr. Bush was wondering why he had cut terrorism
funding from the FBI.”
“This question of resources will also come up in the commission's
questioning of Attorney General John Ashcroft, who was brand-new on the
job in the fall of 2001 and on September 10th cut the FBI's request for
new counterterrorism money by 12 percent.” John Dimsdale, “Former FBI
Director Louis Freeh and Attorney General John Ashcroft to appear before
9/11 commission tomorrow,” NPR Radio: Marketplace, April 12, 2004. See
also, 2001 budget documents including Attorney General John Ashcroft FY
2003 budget request to Office of Management and Budget, September 10,
2001, showing $65 million offset in the FBI budget for counter-terrorism
equipment grants:
http://www.americanprogress.org/atf/cf/%7BE9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6FF2E
06E03%7D/FY03ASHCROFT.PDF FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The security briefing that
was given to him on August 6, 2001, said that Osama bin Laden was
planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes.
August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief (PDB): “Al-Qa'ida members --
including some who are US citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the
US for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure
that could aid attacks. Two al-Qa'ida members found guilty in the
conspiracy to bomb our Embassies in East Africa were US citizens, and a
senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s. A clandestine
source said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in New York was recruiting
Muslim-American youth for attacks. We have not been able to corroborate
some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ...
(redacted portion) ... service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to
hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of ‘Blind Shaykh’ 'Umar 'Abd
al-Rahman and other US-held extremists. Nevertheless, FBI information
since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this
country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of
attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New
York.” August 6, 2001, Bin Ladin Determined to Strike Inside US,
http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf
“The Aug. 6, 2001, document, known as the President's Daily Brief, has
been the focus of intense scrutiny because it reported that bin Laden
advocated airplane hijackings, that al-Qaida supporters were in the
United States and that the group was planning attacks here.” Clarke J.
Scott, “Clarke Gave Warning on Sept. 4, 2001; Testimony Includes
Apology to Families of Sept. 11 Victims, Associated Press, March 25,
2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: On August 6 th, 2001, George W. Bush went fishing.
“President Bush swung into vacation mode Monday, fishing for bass in his
pond, strolling the canyons on his 1,600-acre ranch, taking an
early-morning run. Associated Press, “President Bush Vacationing in
Texas,” August 6, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Was it the guy my daddy’s
friends delivered a lot of weapons to?”
In 1995, a member of Reagan's National Security Council and co-author of
his National Security Directives, Howard Teicher, signed a sworn
affidavit stating: “From early 1982 to 1987, I served as a Staff Member
to the United States National Security Council.… In June, 1982,
President Reagan decided that the United States could not afford to
allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran. President Reagan decided that the
United States would do whatever was necessary and legal to prevent Iraq
from losing the war with Iran. Pursuant to the secret NSDD, the United
States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis
with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military
intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third
country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military
weaponry required. This message was delivered by Vice President Bush who
communicated it to Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the
message to Saddam Hussein. Under CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director
Gates, the CIA made sure that non-U.S. manufacturers manufactured and
sold to Iraq the weapons needed by Iraq. In certain instances where a
key component in a weapon was not readily available, the highest levels
of the United States government decided to make the component available,
directly or indirectly, to Iraq. I specifically recall that the
provision of anti-armor penetrators to Iraq was a case in point. The
United States made a policy decision to supply penetrators to Iraq."
Affidavit of former Howard Teicher, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. CARLOS
CARDOEN et al, January 31, 1995.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1413.htm “Questions have
been raised about whether the United States not only ignored foreign
arms shipments to Iraq, but actually encouraged or even arranged them. A
former National Security Council official, Howard Teicher, said in a
1995 court affidavit that the CIA made sure Iraq received weapons from
non-U.S. manufacturers.” Ken Guggenheim, “War Crimes Trial for Saddam
Could Reveal Details of Past U.S. Help,” Associated Press, January 24,
2004. “There is ample documentation demonstrating that the Reagan and
Bush administrations supplied critical military technologies that were
put directly to use in the construction of the Iraqi war machine. There
is also strong evidence indicating that the executive branch's failure
to crack down on illegal weapons traffickers or keep track of third
party transfers of U.S. weaponry allowed a substantial flow of
U.S.-origin military equipment and military components to make their way
to Iraq.” William D. Hartung, Weapons at War; A World Policy Institute
Issue Brief, May 1995. See also, Alan Friedman, Spider's Web: The
Secret History of How the White House Illegally Armed Iraq, (Bantam
Books, 1993); Kenneth R. Timmerman, The Death Lobby: How the West Armed
Iraq, (Houghton, Mifflin, 1991). “Rep. Dante Fascell, D-Fla., chairman
of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said … that the United States
could not ‘make a claim for purity’ on arms sales, since the U.S.
government has sold weapons to Iran, Iraq ‘and everybody else in the
world.’” Robert Shepard, “Congress Approves Aid for Former Soviet
Republics,” United Press International, October 3, 1992. “A covert
American program during the Reagan administration provided Iraq with
critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence
agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in
waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war, according to senior
military officers with direct knowledge of the program. Those officers,
most of whom agreed to speak on the condition that they not be
identified, spoke in response to a reporter's questions about the nature
of gas warfare on both sides of the conflict between Iran and Iraq from
1981 to 1988. Iraq's use of gas in that conflict is repeatedly cited by
President Bush and, this week, by his national security adviser,
Condoleezza Rice, as justification for "regime change" in Iraq. The
covert program was carried out at a time when President Reagan's top
aides, including Secretary of State George P. Shultz, Defense Secretary
Frank C. Carlucci and Gen. Colin L. Powell, then the national security
adviser, were publicly condemning Iraq for its use of poison gas,
especially after Iraq attacked Kurds in Halabja in March 1988.” Patrick
E. Tyler, “Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War Despite Use of Gas,” The
New York Times, August 18, 2002. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Was it that group of
religious fundamentalists who visited my state when I was governor?”
“A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the
United States for talks with an international energy company that wants
to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to
Pakistan. A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were
expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in
Sugarland, Texas.” “Taleban in Texas for talks on Gas Pipeline,” BBC
News, December 4, 1997 (Sugarland is 22 miles outside Houston.)
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Or was it the Saudis? Damn, it was them.”
“The 27 classified pages of a congressional report about Sept. 11 depict
a Saudi government that not only provided significant money and aid to
the suicide hijackers but also allowed potentially hundreds of millions
of dollars to flow to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups through
suspect charities and other fronts, according to sources familiar with
the document. One U.S. official who has read the classified section
said it describes ‘very direct, very specific links’ between Saudi
officials, two of the San Diego-based hijackers and other potential
co-conspirators ‘that cannot be passed off as rogue, isolated or
coincidental.’” Of all the hijackers, 15 of the 19 were Saudi. Josh
Meyer, “Report Links Saudi Government to 9/11 Hijackers, Sources Say,”
Los Angeles Times, August 2, 2003. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “In the days
following September 11th , all commercial and private airline traffic
was grounded.”
“On the morning of September 11th, there were 4,873 instrument flight
rule (IFR) flights operating in U.S. airspace. As soon as Secretary
Mineta was aware of the nature and scale of the terrorist attack on New
York and Washington -- that we were faced with, not one, but four
possible hijackings, and several other rumors of missing or unidentified
aircraft -- the Secretary ordered the air traffic system shut down for
all civil operations. Jane F. Garvey on Aviation Security Following the
Terrorist Attack on September 11th, September 21, 2001;
http://www.faa.gov/newsroom/testimony/2001/testimony_010921.htm; see
also, “Airports to Remain Closed, Mineta Says,” Department of
Transportation Press Release, September 12, 2001 FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “The
White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other
Saudis.”
Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked
for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. National
Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and
Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
“Now, what I recall is that I asked for flight manifests of everyone on
board and all of those names need to be directly and individually vetted
by the FBI before they were allowed to leave the country. And I also
wanted the FBI to sign off even on the concept of Saudis being allowed
to leave the country. And as I recall, all of that was done. It is true
that members of the Bin Laden family were among those who left. We knew
that at the time. I can't say much more in open session, but it was a
conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the
State Department and the FBI and the White House.” Testimony of Richard
Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before
The Senate Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003. “I was making or
coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after.
And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this
proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you pressed me, the two
possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State,
or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I don't know.”
Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on
Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004. FAHRENHEIT
9/11: “At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes
carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September
13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family,
were allowed to leave the country.”
NOTE: It should be noted that even though the film does not make the
allegation, strong evidence has recently come to light that at least one
private plane flew to pick up Saudi nationals while private flights were
still grounded. Moreover, for nearly three years, the White House has
denied that this flight existed. This was reported in the June 9, 2004
St. Petersburg Times article cited below.
After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142
people,mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States
between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin
flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers,
most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. National Commission on
Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001,
Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
It should be noted that the US Customs and Border Protection document
released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24,
2004 lists 162 Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between
9/11/2001 and 9/15/2001, departing from New York’s Kennedy airport,
Washington’s Dulles, and Dallas Fort Worth.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf. For an
official list of Saudi Passport holders (names redacted) who flew out of
the country between 9.11.2001 – 9.15.2001, see US Customs and Border
Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security
under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004;
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf. TheSt.
Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004: o "Two days after the Sept. 11
attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small
jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi
men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi
royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa
police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took
another flight out of the country.”
o Moreover: “For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law
enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have
denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its
purpose… The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said
in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard,
mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24,
2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight… The 9/11
Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were
handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of
the Tampa flight.
o "Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13
were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made
quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid
charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.” Jean Heller,
“TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that
two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.” St.
Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
-- Impeachment was created for people like G.W Bush
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ "The big elephant sitting in the corner is
that George W. Bush is simply unqualified for the job... What's his
accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?" -Ronald
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Three
Section Three covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from Osama's relations
with his family through Bush's military records and ends with Bush's
business history, including Arbusto, Harken and the Carlyle Group.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: In 2001, one of Osama’s sons got married in
Afghanistan; several family members attended the wedding.
“Bin Laden as well as his mother, two brothers and a sister, who flew
from Saudi Arabia, attended the wedding of one of his sons, Mohammad, in
the Afghan city of Kandahar on Monday, the Arabic daily Al-Hayat said.…
Another of bin Laden's sons married one of al-Masri's daughters in
January. Al-Hayat said several members of the bin Laden family, who run
a major construction company in Saudi Arabia, also traveled from the
kingdom to attend the wedding. Agence France Presse, “Bin Laden Full of
Praise for Attack on USS Cole at Son's Wedding”, Thursday, March 1,
2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “We held hundreds of people” immediately after
9/11.
“More than 1,200 foreigners have been detained as part of the
government's investigation into the terror attacks, some spending months
in prison. Some civil liberties advocates have complained, but
government officials insist they are simply enforcing long-standing
immigration laws.” “A Nation Challenged,” New York Times, November 25,
2001. “The Department of Homeland Security announced new rules yesterday
designed to prevent a recurrence of the lengthy detention of hundreds of
foreign nationals, many of whom were prevented from making telephone
calls or contacting lawyers for months after they were jailed in the
wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The guidelines, made public
yesterday by Asa Hutchinson, the department's undersecretary for border
and transportation security, were welcomed by civil rights groups that
had bitterly denounced the detention of 762 immigration violators after
the attacks, based on sometimes ill-founded FBI suspicions that they had
links to terrorism. The new rules are a response to a highly critical
198-page report last June by Glenn A. Fine, the Justice Department's
inspector general. It concluded that in the chaotic aftermath of the
terrorist strikes on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, hundreds
of Arab and South Asian men who had committed sometimes minor
immigration violations languished in jail without timely review by U.S.
officials. Guards mistreated some of them. The average detention lasted
three months, and the longest was 10 months before the immigrants were
cleared of terrorism ties and released from jail.” John Mintz, “New
Rules Shorten Holding Time for Detained Immigrants,” Washington Post,
April 14, 2004. “In the days, weeks and months following the tragic
events of September 11, 2001, hundreds of American immigrants were
rounded up and detained, often under harsh or abusive conditions, in the
name of keeping America safe. Not because of evidence (or even sound
hunches) that they were involved in the terrorist attacks that brutally
ended the lives of more than 3,100 people. Not because they were found
to have ties to – or even knowledge of – terrorist groups who might
threaten American security in the future. Instead, hundreds of
immigrants were arbitrarily snared in this dragnet, marked for arrest
and thrown (literally, at times) in jail. The exact number is unknown,
because the government refuses to release that information. They had one
thing in common: Almost all were Arab or South Asian men, and almost all
were Muslim... Once arrested, many immigrants were labeled "of interest"
to the September 11 investigation and thrown into legal limbo – detained
for weeks or months in connection with a criminal investigation, but
denied the due process rights that they would have been entitled to had
they actually been charged with crimes.” ACLU, "America’s Disappeared:
Seeking International Justice for Immigrants Detained after September
11," January 2004. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The FBI conducted “a little
interview, check[ed] the passport.”
Last year, the National Review reported that the FBI conducted brief,
day-of-departure interviews with the Saudis -- in the words of an FBI
spokesman, "at the airport, as they were about to leave." Experts
interviewed by the National Review called the FBI's actions "highly
unusual" given the fact that those departing were actually members of
Osama bin Laden's family. "They [the FBI] could not have done a thorough
and complete interview," said John L.Martin, the former head of internal
security at the Justice Department. "The Great Escape : How did assorted
bin Ladens get out of America after September 11?" National Review,
September 29, 2003.
“Thirty of the 142 people on these flights were interviewed by the FBI,
including 22 of the 26 people (23 passengers and 3 private security
guards) on the Bin Ladin flight. Many were asked detailed questions.
None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with
Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity." National
Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and
Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
“I talked to several people who were with the FBI during the actual
repatriation. And they told me there was a lot of back-and-forth
between the FBI and the Saudi Embassy. And the Saudi Embassy tried to
get people to leave without even identifying them. The FBI succeeded in
identifying people and going through their passports. But, in many
cases, you had the FBI meeting people for the first time on the tarmac
or on the planes themselves as they were departing. That was not time
for a serious interview or a serious interrogation.” Interview with
Craig Unger, CNN, September 4, 2003. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: White House
released records in response to Moore’s charge of deserter.
Left-leaning filmmaker Michael Moore got the discussion started in
January, when he endorsed Clark for president and called the president a
‘deserter.’ The White House responded by releasing the president's
service records, including an honorable discharge. James Rainey, “Who's
the Man? They Are; George Bush and John Kerry Stand Shoulder to Shoulder
in One Respect: Macho is Good. Very Good. It's Been That Way Since
Jefferson's Day,” Los Angeles Times, March 18, 2004. FAHRENHEIT 9/11:
There is one glaring difference between the records released in 2000 and
those he released in 2004. A name had been blacked out. In 1972, two
airmen were suspended for failing to take their medical examination.
One was George W. Bush and the other wasJames R. Bath.
See National Guard Bureau, Aeronautical Orders Number 87, September 29,
1972, Attachment B, paragraph 7 (original document): The Document as
Released in 2000: Page 1 | Page 2
The Document as Released in 2004: Page 1 | Page 2
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: James R. Bath was the Texas money manager for the Bin
Laden family.
See Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County, Texas, signed by Salem M.
Binladen, July 8, 1976 (original document), Attachment C (“I, Salem M.
Binladen, do hereby vest unto James Reynolds Bath, 2330 Bellefontaine,
Houston, Texas, full and absolute authority to act on my behalf in all
matters relating to the business and operation of Binladen-Houston
offices in Houston, Texas.” Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County,
Texas, July 8, 1976. “According to a 1976 trust agreement, drawn shortly
after [George H. W.] Bush was appointed director of the Central
Intelligence Agency, Saudi Sheik Salem M. Binladen appointed Bath as his
business representative in Houston. Binladen, along with his brothers,
owns Binladen Brothers Construction, one of the largest construction
companies in the Middle East.” Jerry Urban, “Feds Investigate
Entrepreneur Allegedly Tied to Saudis,” Houston Chronicle, June 4, 1992.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: George W. Bush and James R. Bath had become good
friends.
“Bath, 55, acknowledges a friendship with George W. Bush that stems from
their service together in the Texas Air National Guard.” Jonathan Beaty,
“A Mysterious Mover of Money and Planes,” Time Magazine, October 28,
1991. “In a copy of the record released by the National Guard in 2000,
the man in question, James R. Bath, was listed as being suspended from
flying for the National Guard in 1972 for failing to take a medical exam
next to a similar listing for Mr. Bush. It has been widely reported that
the two were friends and that Mr. Bath invested in Mr. Bush's first
major business venture, Arbusto Energy, in the late 1970's after Mr.
Bath began working for Salem bin Laden.” Jim Rutenberg, “A Film to
Polarize Along Party Lines,” New York Times, May 17, 2004. FAHRENHEIT
9/11: “After they were discharged, when Bush’s dad was head of the CIA,
Bath opened up his own aviation business, after selling a plane to a man
by the name of Salem bin Laden, heir to the second largest fortune in
Saudi Arabia, the Saudi bin Laden Group.”
“Bath opened his own aircraft brokerage firm in 1976.” Jonathan Beaty,
“A Mysterious Mover of Money and Planes,” Time Magazine, October 28,
1991. (Bush was CIA director, 1976-1977.) “Sometime around 1974… Bath
was trying to sell a F-27 turboprop, a sluggish medium-range plane that
was not exactly a hot ticket in those days, when he received a phone
call that changed his life. The voice no the other end belonged to
Salem bin Laden… Bath not only had a buyer for a plane no one else
seemed to want, he had also stumbled upon a source of wealth and power
that was certain to pique the interest of even the brashest Texas oil
baron.” Craig Unger, House of Bush, House of Saud, pp,19-20 (Scribner:
New York, 2004). FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “George W. Bush founded an oil
company, a drilling company, out in west Texas called Arbusto, which was
very good at drilling dry holes.”
“After graduating from the Harvard Business School, Bush organized his
first company, Arbusto Energy (Arbusto is Spanish for Bush) in 1977 on
the eve of a run for Congress. According to records on file with the
Securities and Exchange Commission, Arbusto didn’t start active
operations until March 1979.… According to 1984 securities filings,
Bush’s limited partners had invested $4.66 million in Bush’s various
drilling programs but they had received cash distributions of only $1.54
million. However, Bush’s CFO stated, ‘We didn’t find much oil and gas,’
adding ‘We weren’t raising any money.’ George Lardner Jr. and Lois
Romano, “Bush Name Helps Fuel Oil Dealings,” Washington Post, July 30,
1999. “Bush eventually renamed his company Bush Exploration and later
merged with a firm called Spectrum 7. Documents filed with the
Securities and Exchange Commission show that the firm lost money from
1979 to 1982 and that investors who put in nearly $4.7 million got back
just $1.5 million. Published reports contend that Bush Exploration was
salvaged by Cincinnati oilmen Bill DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds. Bush
today says otherwise, that his company was on firm financial footing and
that the merger was a strategic one. Either way, George W. drilled his
fair share of dry holes. As Conaway rues to this day, the company ‘never
hit . . . the Big Kahuna.’” Maria La Ganga, “Bush Finesses Texas 2-Step
Of Privilege, Personality,” Los Angeles Times, March 2, 2000. FAHRENHEIT
9/11: “There is no indication that daddy wrote a check to start Bush off
in his company.”
“Seed money, upward of $4 million, was largely raised between 1979 and
1982 with the help of [Bush’s] uncle, financier Jonathan Bush. The
Arbusto investor list is filled with family and famous friends. His
grandmother, Dorothy W. Bush, chipped in $25,000. Corporate luminaries
like George L. Ball, chief executive of Prudential-Bache Securities,
invested $100,000. Macomber and William H. Draper III, who invested
more than $125,000, were later named presidents of the U.S.
Export-Import Bank during the Reagan and Bush administrations.” Maria La
Ganga, “Bush Finesses Texas 2-Step Of Privilege, Personality,” Los
Angeles Times, March 2, 2000. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Bush’s good friend James
Bath was hired by the bin Laden family to manage their money in Texas
and invest in businesses. And James Bath himself, in turn, invested in
George W. Bush.”
See Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County, Texas, signed by Salem M.
Binladen, July 8, 1976 (original document), Attachment C (“I, Salem M.
Binladen, do hereby vest unto James Reynolds Bath, 2330 Bellefontaine,
Houston, Texas, full and absolute authority to act on my behalf in all
matters relating to the business and operation of Binladen-Houston
offices in Houston, Texas.” Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County,
Texas, July 8, 1976. See 1981 Schedule 4 spreadsheet showing $50,000
investment by James Bath in George W. Bush’s Arbusto Exploration,
Attachment D (original document).
Bath’s business relationship with Salem bin Laden, and other wealthy
Saudi businessmen, has been well documented. See, e.g., Mike Ward,
“Bin Laden Relatives Have Ties to Texas,” Austin American-Statesman,
November 9, 2001; Jerry Urban, “Feds Investigate Entrepreneur Allegedly
Tied to Saudis,” Houston Chronicle, June 4, 1992; Thomas Petzinger Jr.,
et al., “Family Ties: How Oil Firm Linked to a Son of Bush Won Bahrain
Drilling Pact,” The Wall Street Journal, December 6, 1991.
“[E]arly 1980s tax records reviewed by TIME show that Bath invested
$50,000 in Bush's energy ventures and remained a stockholder until Bush
sold his company to Harken in 1986.” Jonathan Beaty, “A Mysterious Mover
of Money and Planes,” Time Magazine, October 28, 1991. FAHRENHEIT 9/11:
“Bush ran Arbusto nearly into the ground, as he did every other company
he was involved in until finally one of his companies was bought by
Harken Energy and they gave him a seat on their board.”
“Bush's name …was to help rescue him, just as it had attracted investors
and helped revive his flagging fortunes throughout his years in the
dusty plains city of Midland. A big Dallas-based firm, Harken Oil and
Gas, was looking to buy up troubled oil companies. After finding
Spectrum, Harken's executives saw a bonus in their target's CEO, despite
his spotty track record. By the end of September 1986, the deal was
done. Harken assumed $ 3.1 million in debts and swapped $ 2.2 million of
its stock for a company that was hemorrhaging money, though it had oil
and gas reserves projected to produce $ 4 million in future net revenue.
Harken, a firm that liked to attach itself to stars, had also acquired
Bush, whom it used not as an operating manager but as a high-profile
board member.… It was one of the biggest breaks of Bush's life. Still,
the Harken deal completed a disappointing reprise of what was becoming a
familiar pattern. As an oilman, Bush always worked hard, winning a
reputation as a straight-shooter and a good boss who was witty, warm and
immensely likable. Even the investors who lost money in his ventures
remained admirers, and some of them are now raising money for his
presidential campaign. But the story of Bush's career in oil, which
began following his graduation from Harvard Business School in the
summer of 1975 and ended when he sold out to Harken and headed for
Washington, is mostly about his failure to succeed, despite the sterling
connections his lineage and Ivy League education brought him." George
Lardner Jr. and Lois Romano, “Bush Name Helps Fuel Oil Dealings,”
Washington Post, July 30, 1999. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bush was investigated
by the S.E.C. The James Baker law partner who helped Bush beat the rap
from the SEC was a man by the name of Robert Jordon, who, when George W.
became president was appointed ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
“A week before George W. Bush's 1990 sale of stock in Harken Energy Co.,
the firm's outside lawyers cautioned Bush and other directors against
selling shares if they had significant negative information about the
company's prospects. The sale came a few months before Harken reported
significant losses, leading to an investigation by the Securities and
Exchange Commission. The June 15, 1990, letter from the Haynes and
Boone law firm wasn't sent to the SEC by Bush's attorney Robert W.
Jordan until Aug. 22, 1991, according to a letter by Jordan. That was
one day after SEC staff members investigating the stock sale concluded
there was insufficient evidence to recommend an enforcement action
against Bush for insider trading.” Peter Behr, “Bush Sold Stock After
Lawyers’ Warning,” Washington Post, November 1, 2002. “President Bush
has chosen as ambassador to Saudi Arabia a Dallas attorney who
represented him against … allegations arising from his sale of stock in
Harken Energy Co. 11 years ago.” G. Robert Hillman, “Bush Taps Dallas
Attorney to be Ambassador to Saudi Arabia,” The Dallas Morning News,
July 21, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “After the Harken debacle, the friends
of Bush’s dad got him a seat on another board, of a company owned by the
Carlyle Group.”
"Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the
director of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that
the President’s eldest son, George W. Bush, would ‘be a positive
addition to Caterair’s board.’ Mr. Malek was also a Caterair director
and vice chairman of Northwest Airlines, a major Caterair customer. ‘I
thought George W. Bush could make a contribution to Caterair,’ stated
Malek. Malek further claimed, ‘He would be on the board even if his
father weren’t President.’" Kenneth N. Gilpin, “Little-Known Carlyle
Scores Big,” New York Times, March 26, 1991 Co-Founder of Carlyle Group,
David Rubenstein, talking about setting up Cater Air after Carlyle
acquired it: “When we’re putting together the board,” Rubenstein said,
‘somebody came to me and said ‘Look, there is a guy who would like to be
on the board. He's kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs
some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary
and he'll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management
and so forth.’ …We put him on the board and (he) spent three years.
Came to all the meetings. … And after a while I kind of said to him,
after about three years – ‘You know, I'm not sure this is really for
you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don't think you're
adding much value to the board. You don't know that much about the
company.’ The board member told him, Rubenstein said, ‘Well I think I'm
getting out of this business anyway. I don't really like it that much.
So I'm probably going to resign from the board.’ And I said, 'Thanks.'
Didn't think I'd ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush,’
Rubenstein said. ‘He became president of the United States. So if you
said to me, name 25 million people who would be president of the United
States, he wouldn't be in that category. So you neverknow." Nicholas
Horrock, “White House Watch: With Friends Like These,” UPI, July 16,
2003 .
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
-- Impeachment was created for people like G.W Bush
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ "The big elephant sitting in the corner is
that George W. Bush is simply unqualified for the job... What's his
accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?" -Ronald Reagan Jr.
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Four
Section Four covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 covers the Carlyle Group
and Saudi money in the United States and its connection to the Bush
family, their friends and associates.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “The Carlyle group is a multinational conglomerate that
invests in heavily government-regulated industries like
telecommunications, healthcare and, particularly, defense.”
“The Carlyle Group is one of the world’s largest private equity firms,
with more than $18.3 billion under management. With 23 funds across five
investment disciplines (management-led buyouts, real estate, leveraged
finance, venture capital and turnaround), Carlyle combines global vision
with local insight, relying on a top-flight team of nearly 300 investment
professionals operating out of offices in 14 countries to uncover
superior opportunities in North America, Europe, and Asia. Carlyle
focuses on sectors in which it has demonstrated expertise: aerospace &
defense, automotive & transportation, consumer, energy & power,
healthcare, industrial, real estate, technology & business services, and
telecommunications & media.” Carlyle Group web site,
http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/company/index.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The Bin Laden and Bush families were both connected to
the Carlyle Group, as were many of the Bush family’s friends and
associates.
In the early 1990s, George W. Bush served on the board of directors for
CaterAir, an airline catering company. CaterAir was owned by the Carlyle
Group. Kenneth N. Gilpin, “Little-Known Carlyle Scores Big,” The New
York Times, March 26, 1991. “George W. Bush left the company in 1994, a
year after his father’s presidency ended.” Ross Ramsey, et al., “Campaign
’94 Fisher’s Staff Slips Up On Spanish,” The Houston Chronicle, September
17, 1994.
In the mid-1990s, George H.W. Bush joined up with the Carlyle Group.
“Under the leadership of ex-officials like Baker and former Defense
Secretary Frank C. Carlucci, Carlyle developed a specialty in buying
defense companies and doubling or quadrupling their value. The ex-
president not only became an investor in Carlyle, but a member of the
company's Asia Advisory Board and a rainmaker who drummed up investors.
Twelve rich Saudi families, including the Bin Ladens, were among them. In
2002, the Washington Post reported, ‘Saudis close to Prince Sultan, the
Saudi defense minister ... were encouraged to put money into Carlyle as a
favor to the elder Bush.’ Bush retired from the company last October, and
Baker, who lobbied U.S. allies last month to forgive Iraq's debt, remains
a Carlyle senior counselor. Kevin Phillips, “The Barreling Bushes; Four
Generations of the Dynasty Have Chased Profits Through Cozy Ties with
Mideast Leaders, Spinning Webs of Conflicts of Interest,” Los Angeles
Times, January 11, 2004.
The bin Laden family first invested in Carlyle in 1994. Representing
Carlyle’s Asia Board, George H.W. Bush visited the bin laden family's
headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Kurt Eichenwald, “Bin Laden Family
Liquidates Holdings With Carlyle Group,” The New York Times, October 26,
2001.
James Baker was a Carlyle Senior Counselor beginning in 1993. Carlyle
Group web site, http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/team/l5-team391.html.
Bush's OMB chief, Richard Darman, was with Carlyle by 1994. Bob Cook,
Mergers & Acquisitions Report, December 12, 1994.
George W. Bush was with Caterair -- owned by Carlyle -- until 1994, after
Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the director
of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that the
President’s eldest son would “be a positive addition to Caterair’s
board.” Kenneth N. Gilpin, “Little-Known Carlyle Scores Big,” New York
Times, March 26, 1991.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Carlyle Group was holding its annual investor
conference on the morning of September 11th in the Ritz Carlton Hotel in
Washington, D.C. At that meeting were all of the Carlyle regulars, James
Baker, likely John Major, definitely George H. W. Bush, though he left
the morning of September 11th. Shafiq bin Ladin, who is Osama bin
Laden’s half-brother, and was in town to look after his family’s
investments in the Carlyle Group. All of them, together in one room,
watching as the uh the planes hit the towers.”
On the morning of September 11, 2001, “in the plush setting of the Ritz-
Carlton hotel in Washington, DC, the Carlyle Group was holding its annual
international investor conference. Frank Carlucci, James Baker III, David
Rubenstein, William Conway, and Dan D’Aniellow were together, along with
a host of former world leaders, former defense experts, wealthy Arabs
from the Middle East, and major international investors as they terror
played out on television. There with them, looking after the investments
of his family was Shafiq bin Laden, Osama bin Laden’s estranged half-
brother. George Bush Sr. was also at the conference, but Carlyle’s
spokesperson says the former president left before the terror attacks,
and was on an airplane over the Midwest when flights across the country
were grounded on the morning of September 11. In any circumstance, a
confluence of such politically complex and globally connected people
would have been curious, even newsworthy. But in the context of the
terrorist attacks being waged against the United States by a group of
Saudi nationals led by Osama bin Laden, the group assembled at the Ritz-
Carlton that day was a disconcerting and freakish coincidence.” Dan
Briody, The Iron Triangle, John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 2003, p. 139-140.
See also, Melanie Warner, “What do George Bush, Arthur Levitt, Jim Baker,
Dick Darman, and John Major Have in Common? (They All Work for the
Carlyle Group),” Fortune, March 18, 2002,
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “With all the weapons companies it owned, The Carlyle
Group was in essence, the 11th largest defense contractor in the United
States.”
“By virtue of its holdings in companies like U.S. Marine Repair and
United Defense Industries, Carlyle is the equivalent of the eleventh-
largest defense contractor in the nation. It has $16.2 billion under
management and claims an average annual return of 35%.” Phyllis Berman,
“Lucky Twice,” Forbes, December 8, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “It owned United Defense, makers of the Bradley armored
fighting vehicle. September 11th guaranteed that United Defense was going
to have a very good year. Just 6 weeks after 9-11 Carlyle filed to take
United Defense public and in December made a one day profit of $237
million dollars.”
“On a single day last month, Carlyle earned $237 million selling shares
in United Defense Industries, the Army's fifth-largest contractor. The
stock offering was well timed: Carlyle officials say they decided to take
the company public only after the Sept. 11 attacks. … On Sept. 26,
[2001], the Army signed a $665-million modified contract with United
Defense through April 2003 to complete the Crusader's development phase.
In October, the company listed the Crusader, and the attacks themselves,
as selling points for its stock offering. Mark Fineman, “Arms Buildup is
a Boon to Firm Run by Big Guns,” Los Angeles Times, January 10, 2002.
"Still, in its annual report for 2001, United announced that it had been
awarded a three-year, $697 million contract to complete full upgrading of
389 Bradley units and had added a $ 655 million contract modification to
complete the Crusader's 'definition and risk-reduction phase contract,'
which would be worth $ 1.7 billion through 2003. Together, the Crusader
and Bradley programs contributed 41 percent of United sales in 2001, the
report said. With Crusader and the Bradley upgrade in hand, a decision
was made to sell United stock to the public in late 2001." Walter Pincus,
“Crusader a Boon to Carlyle Group Even if Pentagon Scraps Project,”
Washington Post, May 14, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “With so much attention focused on the bin Laden family
being important Carlyle investors, the bin Ladens eventually had to
withdraw.”
"Following the attacks on September 11, the bin Laden family’s
investments in the Carlyle Group became an embarrassment to the Carlyle
Group and the family was forced to liquidate their assets with the
firm." Kurt Eichenwald, “Bin Laden Family Liquidates Holdings with
Carlyle Group,” The New York Times, October 26, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Bush’s dad stayed on as Senior Advisor to Carlyle’s
Asia Board for another 2 years.”
“Former President Bush was at one time the Senior Advisor to the Carlyle
Asia Advisory Board but retired from that position in October 2003. He
holds no other positions at Carlyle.”
http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/news/l4-presskit681.html#8
“The former president is no longer a company adviser, but he still has
investments there, Mr. Ullman (vice president for corporate
communications) said.” Dallas Morning News, "Michael Moore keeps heat on
at premiere", May 18, 2004
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: George H. W. Bush receives daily CIA briefings.
"One of the people who corresponded with [former ambassador Joseph]
Wilson is George H. W. Bush, the only president to have been head of the
C.I.A.-- he still receives regular briefings from Langley." Vicky Ward,
“Double Exposure,” Vanity Fair, January 2004.
Former President Bush has made efforts to keep abreast of foreign
affairs, partly by exercising his right to be briefed by CIA personnel
about developments around the globe. Ha'aretz, “George Bush Sr. Vouches
for Son's Support of Israel to the Saudis”, July 16, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “They are benefiting from the confusion that arises when
George H. W. Bush visits Saudi Arabia, on behalf of Carlyle, and meets
with the royal family and meets with the bin Laden family. Is he
representing the United States of America, or is he representing an
investment firm in the United States of America or is he representing
both?”
Few firms could have rivaled the Carlyle Group for its array of high-
powered friends. The Washington-based venture capital house had been
likened to a retirement home for Gulf War veterans, and the likes of
George Bush Sr, James Baker, and John Major ‘can take credit for its
rapid rise.’ The Observer noted in a profile, “It used to be fashionable
to deride Carlyle as a second-rate influence-peddler and dismiss its
stable of retired politicians as superannuated ‘access capitalists.’” …
Carlyle had sponsored visits by Bush Sr. to South Korea and China, and
his clout with the Saudi government – perhaps Carlyle’s most important
customer – is also likely to be valued. Conal Walsh, “The Carlyle
Controversy: With Friends in High Places: Former World Leaders Give
Carlyle Group Unrivalled Prowess in Lobbying for Business,” The Observer,
September 15, 2002.
“’It should be a deep cause for concern that a closely held company like
Carlyle can simultaneously have directors and advisers that are doing
business and making money and also advising the president of the United
States,’ says Peter Eisner, managing director of the Center for Public
Integrity, a non-profit-making Washington think-tank. ‘The problem comes
when private business and public policy blend together. What hat is
former president Bush wearing when he tells Crown Prince Abdullah not to
worry about US policy in the Middle East? What hat does he use when he
deals with South Korea, and causes policy changes there? Or when James
Baker helps argue the presidential election in the younger Bush's favour?
It's a kitchen-cabinet situation, and the informality involved is
precisely a mark of Carlyle's success.’" Oliver Burkeman Julian Borger,
“The Winners: The Ex-Presidents' Club,” The Guardian, October 31, 2001.
“The Saudi family of Osama bin Laden is severing its financial ties with
the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm known for its connections to
influential Washington political figures… In recent years, Frank C.
Carlucci, the chairman of Carlyle and a former secretary of defense, has
visited the family's headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, as have former
President George Bush and James A. Baker III, the former secretary of
state. Mr. Bush works as an adviser to Carlyle, and Mr. Baker is a
partner in the firm.” Kurt Eichenwald, “Bin Laden Family Liquidates
Holdings With Carlyle Group,” New York Times, October 26, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Another group of people invest in you, your friends,
and their related businesses $1.4 billion over a number of years.”
“In all, at least $1.46 billion had made its way from the Saudis to the
House of Bush and its allied companies and institutions.” Craig Unger,
House of Bush, House of Saud, p. 200, (Scribner: New York, 2004). For a
complete breakdown of the investments, see Unger’s Appendix C, pp. 295-
298.
This number includes investments made and contracts awarded at the time
that Bush’s friends were involved in the Carlyle Group:
James Baker was a Carlyle Senior Counselor beginning in 1993. Carlyle
Group web site, http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/team/l5-team391.html.
Bush's OMB chief, Richard Darman, was with Carlyle by 1994. Bob Cook,
Mergers & Acquisitions Report, December 12, 1994.
George W. Bush was with Caterair -- owned by Carlyle -- until 1994, after
Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the director
of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that the
President’s eldest son would “be a positive addition to Caterair’s
board.” Kenneth N. Gilpin, “Little-Known CarlyleScores Big,” New York
Times, March 26, 1991
Bush Sr. was first involved in Carlyle by the mid-1990s and no later than
1997.Kevin Phillips, “The Barreling Bushes; Four Generations of the
Dynasty Have Chased Profits Through Cozy Ties with Mideast Leaders,
Spinning Webs of Conflicts of Interest,” Los Angeles Times, January 11 ,
2004; Dan Briody, The Iron Triangle, John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 2003.
Additional back up for these numbers is as follows:
Saudi investments in the Carlyle Group worth $80,000,000. Craig Unger,
“Saving the Saudis,” Vanity Fair, October 2003. The number was reported
to Unger by the head of Carlyle, David Rubenstein, in an interview.
In 1994, Carlyle owned military contractor BDM was “awarded a contract to
provide technical assistance and logistics support to the Royal Saudi Air
Force.” Worth: $46,200,000. PR Newswire, “BDM Federal Awarded $46
Million Contract To Support Royal Saudi Air Force,” October 27, 1994.
During the 1990s, the Vinnell Corporation (a BDM subsidiary) held
contracts to train the Saudi Arabian National Guard, worth $819,000,000.
Robert Burns, “US Advises Saudi Military On Range Of Threats—Including
Terrorism,” Associated Press, November 13, 1995.
In 1995, BDM collected a contract to “augment Royal Saudi Air Force staff
in developing, implementing, and maintaining logistics and engineering
plans and programs.” Worth: $32,500,000. Defense Daily, “Defense
Contracts,” June 23, 1995, as cited by Craig Unger.
In 1996, BDM was awarded a contract “to provide construction of 110
housing units at the MK-1 Compound, Khamis Mushayt, Saudi Arabia, for
Technical Support Program personnel assisting the Royal Saudi Air Force….
This effort supports foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia.” Worth:
$44,397,800. Department of Defense News Release, “BDM Federal,
Incorporated,” April 1, 1996.
During the late 1990s, Vinnell was awarded a contract “for the Saudi
Arabian National Guard (SANG) Modernization Program. The three-year
contract, awarded competitively, calls on Vinnell to continue to support
SANG training operations and related activities.” Worth: $163,300,000 .
PR Newswire, “Vinnell Selected for Award of $163.3 Million Contract for
Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization Program,” May 3, 1995. Kashim
Al-An, “Saudi Guard Gets Quiet Help from US Firm with Connections,”
Associated Press, March 22, 1997.
In 1997, BDM was awarded a contract “to provide for 400 contractor
personnel to support the Royal Saudi Air Force in developing,
implementing, and maintaining logistics, supply, computer,
reconnaissance, intelligence and engineering plans and programs.” Worth:
$18,728,682 (note: this is a “face value increase to a firm fixed price
contract”). Defense Daily, “Defense Contracts,” February 4, 1997.
Note: Carlyle purchased BDM and its subsidiary Vinnell in 1992 and sold
it to TRW in Dec, 1997.
In November 2001, Dick Cheney’s former company Halliburton was awarded “a
contract to provide services for the Saudi Arabian Oil Company’s (Saudi
Aramco) Qatif Field development project in the eastern province of Saudi
Arabia.” Worth: $140 million. Halliburton press release, “Halliburton
Awarded $140 Million Contract by Saudi Aramco,” November 14, 2001.
The same month, a consortium of three companies led by Halliburton
subsidiary KBR won a “contract for engineering, procurement, and
construction of an ethylene plant for Jubail United Petrochemcial
Company, a wholly owned company of Saudi Basic Industries Corporation.”
Worth: $40 million. MaggieMulvihill, et al., “Bush Advisers Cashed in on
Saudi Gravy Train,” Boston Herald, December 11, 2001 ; Halliburton press
release, “Halliburton KBR, Chiyoda, and Mitsubishi Win SaudiArabian
Ethylene Project,” November 19, 2001. (Note: The $40 million figure cited
for this contractin all likelihood is much too low. Three separate
energy industry journals place the value of the contract at $350 million.
While there are two other companies involved, all reports point out that
Halliburton KBR led the consortium and thus, if the contract were $350
million, it is likely that their cut would be—as lead
contractor—significantly more than $40 million. See, Petroleum Economist,
“News in Brief,” January 14, 2002; Chemical Week, “KBR, Chiyoda,
Mitsubishi Win Jubail Ethylene Contract,” December 5, 2001; Middle East
Economic Digest, “Projects Update: Petrochemicals,” March 7, 2000.
Soon after Harken bought out George W. Bush’s company Spectrum 7 in 1986
and placed Bush on their board of directors, a Saudi sheik swooped in to
save the troubled Harken. Abdullah Taha Bakhsh purchased a 17% stake in
the company. Worth: $25,000,000. Thomas Petzinger Jr., et al., “Family
Ties: How Oil Firm Linked to a Son of Bush Won Bahrain Drilling Pact;
Harken Energy Had a Web of Mideast Connections; In the Background: BCCI;
Entrée at the White House,” Wall Street Journal, December 6, 1991.
In 1989 Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd donated money to the Barbara Bush
Foundation for Family Literacy. At the time, Ms. Bush was the First Lady
of the United States. The King’s contribution represented almost half the
amount the organization was able to raise that year. Worth: $1,000,000.
Thomas Ferraro, “Saudi King also Contributed to Barbara Bush’s
Foundation,” United Press International, March 13, 1990.
Following George H. W. Bush’s departure from office, Saudi Ambassador to
the United States, Prince Bandar, donated money to the Bush Sr.
Presidential Library fund. Worth: At least $1,000,000. Dave Montgomery,
“Hail to a Former Chief,” Fort Worth Star-Telegram, November 7, 1997.
Both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush attended the elite Phillips
Andover Academy in Massachusetts. In the summer of 2002 the Academy
announced it had established a scholarship in Bush Sr.’s name. Saudi
Prince Alwaleed binTalal bin Adul Aziz Alsaud -- the same Prince who
bailed out EuroDisney in the mid-Nineties -- was among the donors to the
scholarship. Worth $500,000. Phillips Academy-Andover press release, “A
Statement from Phillips Academy-Andover Regarding the Bush Scholars
Program,” December 31, 2002.
Among the many presents George W. Bush has received from foreign leaders
and dignitaries during his term as President, perhaps none is grander
than the one Prince Bandar bestowed upon him. Bandar gave the current
president a “C.M. Russell oil canvas painting of a native American
buffalo hunt….” Worth: $1,000,000. Siobhan McDonough, “Gifts to
President are Gratefully Received, Quickly Carted into Storage,”
Associated Press, July 14, 2003.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=19
-- Impeachment was created for people like G.W Bush
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ "The big elephant sitting in the corner is
that George W. Bush is simply unqualified for the job... What's his
accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?" -Ronal
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Five
Section Five covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from Saudi Arabia's
involvement in 9/11 through the natural gas pipeline in Afghanistan.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Amnesty International condemns Saudi Arabia as a human
rights violator.
“Saudi Arabia systematically violates international human rights
standards even after agreeing to be bound by them. For example, in
September 1997 Saudi Arabia acceded to the Convention against Torture.
Yet, torture is widespread in Saudi Arabia's criminal justice system.
(Saudi Arabia acceded to the Convention against Torture and the
Convention against Discrimination on Sept 23, 1997).” Amnesty
International, "Saudi Arabia: Open for Business," February 8, 2000.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engMDE230822000?
OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES% 5CSAUDI+ARABIA
“Sharon Burke, Amnesty International USA's advocacy director for the
Middle East and North Africa, said her organization confirmed with the
Saudi Ministry of the Interior that three men were beheaded for sodomy.”
Washington Blade, January 4, 2002,
http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saudi_arabia/saudinews15.htm
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Bush tried to stop Congress from setting up its own
9/11 investigation.… When he couldn’t stop Congress, he then tried to
stop an independent 9/11 commission from being formed.”
The original effort by the White House was to limit the scope of the 9/11
investigation to only two congressional committees. “President Bush asked
House and Senate leaders yesterday to allow only two congressional
committees to investigate the government's response to the events of
Sept. 11, officials said.” Mike Allen, “Bush Seeks To Restrict Hill
Probes Of Sept. 11; Intelligence Panels' Secrecy Is Favored,” Washington
Post, January 30, 2002.
“I, of course, want the Congress to take a look at what took place prior
to Sept. 11. But since it deals with such sensitive information, in my
judgment, it’s best for the ongoing war against terror that the
investigation be done in the intelligence committees,” President Bush
said. David Rosenbaum, “Bush Bucks Tradition on Investigation,” The New
York Times, May 26, 2002.
“Angry lawmakers [McCain, Pelosi, Lieberman] accused White House Friday
of secretly trying to derail creation of an independent commission to
investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks while professing to support
the idea.” Helen Dewar, “Lawmakers Accuse Bush of 9/11 Deceit,” Los
Angeles Times, October 13, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The White House censored 28 pages of the Congressional
9/11 report.
“Top U.S. officials believe the Saudi Arabian government not only
thwarted their efforts to prevent the rise of al-Qaida and stop terrorist
attacks, but also may have given the Saudi-born Sept. 11 hijackers
financial and logistical support, according to a congressional report
released Thursday. Those suspicions prompted several lawmakers to demand
that the Bush administration aggressively investigate Saudi Arabia 's
actions before and after Sept. 11, 2001 -- in part by making public large
sections of the report that pertain to Riyadh but remain classified. The
passages, including an entire 28-page section, discuss in detail whether
one of America's most reluctant allies in the war on terrorism was
somehow implicated in the attacks, according to U.S. officials familiar
with the full report.” Josh Meyer, “Saudi Ties to Sept. 11 Hinted at in
Report,” Houston Chronicle, July 25, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: More than 500 relatives of 9/11 victims filed suit Saudi
Royals and others. The lawyers the Saudi Defense Minister hired to fight
these 9/11 families was the law firm of Bush family confidant James A.
Baker.
“James Baker, whom Bush recently sent abroad seeking help to reduce
Iraq's debt, is still a senior counselor for the Carlyle Group, and
Baker's Houston-based law firm, Baker Botts, is representing the Saudi
defense minister in Motley’s [plaintiff’s council in class-action suit in
connection with September 11th attacks] case.” New York Times, “A Nation
Unto Itself,” March 14, 2004
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Saudi’s have $860 billion dollars invested in America.
“Over the next twenty-five years, roughly eighty-five thousand ‘high-net-
worth’ Saudis invested a staggering $860 billion in American companies –
an average of more than $10 million a person and a sum that is roughly
equivalent to the gross domestic product of Spain.” Craig Unger, House
of Bush, House of Saud, (Scribner: New York, 2004).
“Allan Gerson, an attorney who represents about 3,600 family members of
victims of the September 11 terrorist attacks … said he is not suing the
Saudi government, but he is pursuing ‘Saudi interests’ in the United
States he estimated totaled about $860 billion.” “ $113 Million in
Terrorism Funds Frozen,” CNN, November 20, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: In terms of investments on Wall Street, $860 billion is
“roughly six or seven percent of America.”
“With a total market capitalization exceeding $12 trillion, the NYSE
Composite represents approximately 82 percent of the total U.S. market
cap.” New York Stock Exchange News Release, “NYSE to Reintroduce
Composite Index,” January 2, 2003. ($860 billion is about 7 percent of
$12 trillion.)
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Citigroup, AOL TimeWarner have big Saudi investors.
“His name is Alwaleed bin Talal. His grandfather was Saudi Arabia's
founding monarch. With huge stakes in companies ranging from Citigroup
Inc. to the Four Seasons luxury hotel chain, he is one of the richest men
on the planet....Last year, Forbes magazine ranked Alwaleed the fifth-
richest man in the world, with a net worth of nearly $18 billion. His
Kingdom Holding Co. spans four continents. Over the years, he has
acquired major stakes in companies such as Apple Computer Inc., AOL Time
Warner Inc., News Corp. and Saks Inc., parent of retailer Saks Fifth
Avenue .” Richard Verrier, “Disney's Animated Investor; An Ostentatious
Saudi Billionaire Prince Who Helped Bail Out the Company's Paris Resort
in the Mid-'90s is Being Courted to Do So Again,” Los Angeles Times,
January 26, 2004.
“Carlyle’s first major transaction with the Saudis took place in 1991
when Fred Malek steered Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, a flamboyant 35-year-
old Saudi multibillionaire, to the firm for a deal that would enable him
to become the largest individual shareholder in Citicorp.” Craig Unger,
House of Bush, House of Saud, (Scribner: New York, 2004).
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “I read where the Saudis have a trillion dollars in our
banks, their money.”
“Others have said the investment is even more, as much as a trillion
dollars on deposit in U.S. banks – an agreement worked out in the early
1980s by the Reagan administration, in yet another effort to get the
Saudis to off-set the US budget deficit. The Saudis hold another trillion
dollars or so in the US stock market.” Robert Baer, Sleeping with the
Devil, p. 60, (Crown Publishers: New York, 2003).
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Bandar is one of the best protected ambassadors in the
world with a six-man security detail provided by the State Department.”
“The dean of the diplomatic corps by virtue of his long assignment in
Washington, Bandar is the only ambassador who has his own State
Department security detail -- granted to him because of ‘threats’ and his
status as a prince, according to a State Department spokesman.” Robert G.
Kaiser, et al., "Saudi Leader's Anger Revealed Shaky Ties," Washington
Post, February 10, 2002.
“Prince Bandar is often considered the most politically savvy of all the
foreign ambassadors living in Washington. That may or may not be true --
but he certainly is the best-protected. According to a Diplomatic
Security official, Prince Bandar has a security detail that includes
full-time participation of six highly trained and skilled DS officers.
(DS officers are federal government employees charged with securing
American diplomatic missions.)” Joel Mowbray, Dangerous Diplomacy: How
the State Department Threatens American Security, (Regnery, 2003).
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Bandar is so close to the Bushes they considered him a
member of the family. They even have a nickname for him, Bandar Bush.”
“When President [George H.W.] Bush arrived in Riyadh, he took Bandar
aside and embraced him. ‘You are good people,’ the president said. Bandar
claims that Bush had tears in his eyes. Visiting the Bush summer home in
Kennebunkport, Maine, the Saudi ambassador was affectionately dubbed
‘Bandar Bush.’ Bandar returned the favor, inviting Bush to go pheasant
hunting at his English estate. (Since leaving the White House, Bush has
also profited by acting as a kind of glorified door-opener for the
Carlyle Group, an investment company that handles considerable Saudi
wealth.)” Evan Thomas, et al., “The Saudi Game,” Newsweek, November 19,
2001 .
“The Saudi ambassador attended the unveiling of former President George
H.W. Bush's official portrait when he returned to the White House in
1995. He was among the guests at a surprise 75th birthday party in 2000
for former first lady Barbara Bush, and the former president has
vacationed at Bandar's home in Aspen, Colo. Bandar has been a guest at
the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas. Just last year he presented the first
family with a C.M. Russell painting, a gift worth $1 million that will be
stored in the National Archives, along with other presents from well-
wishers destined for a [George W.] Bush presidential library.” Mike
Glover, “Kerry Criticizes Bush on Saudi Meeting”, Associated Press, April
23, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Two nights after September 11th, George Bush invited
Bandar Bush over to the White House for a private dinner and a talk.”
Two days after the attacks, the President asked Bandar to come to the
White House. Bush embraced him and escorted him to the Truman balcony.
Bandar had a drink and the two men smoked cigars. Elsa Walsh, “The
Prince,” The New Yorker, March 24, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bandar’s government blocked American investigators from
talking to the relatives of the 15 hijackers.
“The report strongly criticized top Saudi officials for their ‘lack of
cooperation’ before and after the Sept. 11 attacks, even when it became
known that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.…One top U.S. official told
the joint inquiry staff that the Saudis since 1996 would not cooperate on
matters relating to Osama bin Laden. Robert Baer, a former CIA officer,
said the Saudis blocked FBI agents from talking to relatives of the 15
hijackers and following other leads in the kingdom.” Frank Davies, et
al., “Bush rejects call to give more 9/11 data,” Philadelphia Inquirer,
July 30, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Saudi Arabia was reluctant to freeze the hijackers
assets.
Riyadh has not yet fully joined the international effort to block bank
accounts thought to be financing terrorist operations, U.S. officials
say. But the Bush administration, fearful of offending the Saudis, has
not yet raised a public complaint. Elaine Sciolino, et al., “U.S. is
Reluctant to Upset Flawed, Fragile Saudi Ties,” New York Times, October
25, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “In 1997, while George W. Bush was governor of Texas, a
delegation of Taliban leaders from Afghanistan flew to Houston to meet
with Unocal executives to discuss the building of a pipeline through
Afghanistan.”
“A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the
United States for talks with an international energy company that wants
to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to
Pakistan. A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were
expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in
Sugarland, Texas.” “Taleban in Texas for Talks on Gas Pipeline,” BBC
News, December 4, 1997 (Sugarland is 22 miles outside Houston.)
“The Taliban ministers and their advisers stayed in a five-star hotel and
were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit
Houston's zoo, the NASA space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount
store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which
controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last
third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives. The men,
who are accustomed to life without heating, electricity or running water,
were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to dinner
at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal, they
marvelled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six
bathrooms. After a meal of specially prepared halal meat, rice and Coca-
Cola, the hardline fundamentalists - who have banned women from working
and girls from going to school - asked Mr. Miller about his Christmas
tree.” Caroline Lees, “Oil Barons Court Taliban in Texas,” The Telegraph
(London), December 14, 1997.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “And who got a Caspian Sea drilling contract the same
day Unocal signed the pipeline deal? A company headed by a man named
Dick Cheney, Halliburton.”
On October 27, 1997, both Unocal and Halliburton issued press releases
about their energy work in Turkmenistan. “Halliburton Energy Services
has been providing a variety of services in Turkmenistan for the past
five years.” Press Release, “Halliburton Alliance Awarded Integrated
Service Contract Offshore Caspian Sea In Turkmenistan,” October 27, 1997.
http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive/1997/hesnws_102797.jsp;
“ASHGABAT, Turkmenistan, Oct. 27, 1997 - Six international companies and
the Government of Turkmenistan formed Central Asia Gas Pipeline, Ltd.
(CentGas) in formal signing ceremonies here Saturday.” Press Release,
“Consortium Formed to Build Central Asia Gas Pipeline,” October 27, 1997.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Enron stood to benefit from the pipeline.
Dr. Zaher Wahab of Afghanistan, a professor in the US speaking at
International Human Rights Day event, “explained that Delta, Unocal as
well as Russian, Pakistani and Japanese oil and gas companies have signed
agreements with the Turkmenistan government, immediately north of
Afghanistan, which has the fourth largest gas reserve in the world.
Agreements also have been signed with the Taliban, allowing these oil and
gas giants to pump Turkmenistan gas and oil through western Afghanistan
to Pakistan, from which it then will be shipped all over the world. The
energy consortium Enron plans to be one of the builders of the pipeline.”
Elaine Kelly, “Northwest Groups Discuss Afghan, Iranian and Turkish
Rights Violations,” Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, March 31,
1997.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Kenneth Lay of Enron was Bush’s number one campaign
contributor.
Mr. Lay, also a friend to former President George Bush, was the top
campaign contributor to Mr. Bush’s 2000 presidential election.” Jerry
Seper, “Colossal Collapse: Enron Bankruptcy Scandal Carves a Wide Swath,”
The Washington Times, January 13, 2002; “Although Enron is George W.
Bush’s No. 1 career donor, the president also is heavily indebted to the
professional firms that aided and abetted the greatest bankruptcy and
shareholder meltdown in U.S. history.” Texans for Public Justice, “Bush
Is Indebted To Enron’s Professional Abettors, Too,” January 17, 2002
http://www.tpj.org/page_view.jsp?pageid=255
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Then in 2001, just five and a half months before 9/11,
the Bush administration welcomed a special Taliban envoy to tour the
United States to help improve the image of the Taliban government.”
“A Taliban envoy appealed to the Bush administration Monday to overlook
his group's support of extremist Osama bin Laden and the destruction of
priceless centuries-old Buddhist sculptures and lift sanctions on
Afghanistan to help alleviate a humanitarian crisis threatening the lives
of a million people. Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi delivered a letter from
the Taliban for President Bush that called for better U.S.-Afghan
relations and negotiations to solve the dispute over the Saudi-born Bin
Laden. Robin Wright, “Taliban Asks US to Lift its Economic Sanctions,”
Los Angeles Times, March 20, 2001.
“The Town Hall forum was Hashemi's final meeting in a weeklong visit to
California, where he spoke at several universities, including USC, UCLA
and UC Berkeley. Later Thursday, he left for New York for another stop on
his public relations tour before going to Washington, where he is
scheduled to deliver a letter from his party to the Bush administration.”
Teresa Watanabe, “Overture By Taliban Hits Resistance," Los Angeles
Times, March 16, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The Taliban were harboring the man who bombed the USS
Cole and our African embassies.
“Osama bin Laden has claimed credit for the attack on U.S. soldiers in
Somalia in October 1993, which killed 18; for the attack on the U.S.
Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998, which killed 224 and
injured nearly 5,000; and were linked to the attack on the U.S.S. Cole on
12 October 2000, in which 17 crew members were killed and 40 others
injured. They have sought to acquire nuclear and chemical materials for
use as terrorist weapons.” “Britain's Bill of Particulars” New York
Times, October 5, 2001.
“Osama bin Laden, in recent years, has been America's most wanted
terrorism suspect, with a $5 million reward on his head for his alleged
role in the August 1998 truck bombings of two American embassies in East
Africa that killed more than 200 people, as well as a string of other
terrorist attacks… Most recently, the F.B.I. has named Mr. bin Laden as a
prime suspect in the suicide bombing of the American destroyer Cole,
which was attacked in Aden harbor, 350 miles by road southwest of here,
on Oct. 12, with the loss of 17 sailors' lives." John F. Burns, “Where
bin Laden Has Roots, His Mystique Grows,” New York Times, December 31,
2000.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Hamid Karzai was a former Unocal advisor.
“Cool and worldly, Karzai is a former employee of US oil company Unocal
-- one of two main oil companies that was bidding for the lucrative
contract to build an oil pipeline from Uzbekistan through Afghanistan to
seaports in Pakistan -- and the son of a former Afghan parliament
speaker.” Ilene R. Prusher, Scott Baldauf, and Edward Girardet, “Afghan
power brokers,” Christian Science Monitor, June 10, 2002.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0610/p01s03e-wosc.html.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a former Unocal adviser, signed a treaty
with Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf and the Turkmen dictator
Saparmurat Niyazov to authorize construction of a $3.2 billion gas
pipeline through the Heart-Kandahar corridor in Afghanistan.” Lutz
Kleveman, “Oil and the New ‘Great Game," The Nation, February 16, 2004.
TRANSLATED FROM FRENCH: “He was a consultant for the American oil company
Unocal, while they studied the construction of a pipeline in
Afghanistan." Chipaux Francoise, “Hamid Karzaï, Une Large Connaissance Du
Monde Occidental,” Le Monde, December 6, 2001.en minutes
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=20
-- Impeachment was created for people like G.W Bush
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ "The big elephant sitting in the corner is
that George W. Bush is simply unqualified for the job... What's his
accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?" -Rona
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Six
Section Six covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from the Patriot Act
through the war in Iraq.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Bush also appointed as our envoy to Afghanistan Zalmay
Khalilzad, who was also a former Unocal advisor."
"Mr. Khalilzad himself knows how compasses change. In the mid-1990's, he
briefly defended the Taliban while working as a consultant for Unocal,
the oil company that was then trying to build a pipeline through
Afghanistan. He later became one of the Taliban's fiercest critics." Amy
Waldman, "Afghan Returns Home as American Ambassador," New York Times,
April 19, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Afghanistan signed the agreement to build a pipeline
through its country carrying natural gas from the Caspian Sea ."
"The framework agreement defines legal mechanisms for setting up a
consortium to build and operate the long-delayed US$3.2-billion natural
gas pipeline, known as the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline, which would carry
gas from energy-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan. It would be one of the
first major investment projects in Afghanistan in decades." Baglia
Bukharbayeva "Pakistani, Turkmen, Afghan Leaders Sign US$3.2 Billion
Pipeline Deal," Associated Press, December 27, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "In the year 2000, [John Ashcroft] was running for re-
election as Senator from Missouri against a man who died the month before
the election. The voters preferred the dead guy."
"Sen. John Ashcroft on Wednesday graciously conceded defeat in his re-
election campaign against the late Gov. Mel Carnahan and urged fellow
Republicans to call off any legal challenges." Eric Stern, "Ashcroft
Rejects Challenge To Election; Senator Says He Hopes Carnahan’s Victory
Will Be ‘Of Comfort’ To Widow,"St. Louis Post-Dispatch, November 9, 2000
.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "During the summer before 9/11, Ashcroft told acting FBI
director Thomas Pickard that he didn’t want to hear anything more about
terrorist threats."
"Former interim FBI chief Thomas Pickard testified Tuesday that Atty.
Gen. John Ashcroft didn’t want to hear about terrorism when Pickard tried
to brief him during the summer of 2001, as intelligence reports about
terrorist threats were reaching a historic level." Cam Simpson, "Ashcroft
Ignored Terrorism, Panel Told; Attorney General Denies Charges, Blames
Clinton," Chicago Tribune, April 14, 2004.
See also film footage.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "His own FBI knew that summer that there were al Qaeda
members in the U.S. , and that bin Laden was sending his agents to flight
schools throughout the country."
[T]he July 2001 ‘Phoenix’ memo, written by an FBI agent in Arizona,
warned about ‘an inordinate number of individuals of investigative
interest’ taking flight training. It urged the agency to collect data on
flight schools and foreign students, and to discuss the potential threat
with other intelligence agencies. ...[O]ne of the men mentioned in the
memo was arrested in Pakistan in 2002 with a senior al Qaeda facilitator,
Abu Zubayda. R. Jeffrey Smith, "A History of Missed Connections; U.S.
Analysts Warned of Potential Attacks but Lacked Follow-Through,"
Washington Post, July 25, 2003.
Excerpt from "Phoenix Memo": "The purpose of this communication is to
advise the Bureau and New York of the possibility of a coordinated effort
by USAMA BIN LADEN (UBL) to send students to the United States to attend
civil aviation universities and colleges. Phoenix has observed an
inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest who are
attending or who have attended civil aviation universities and colleges
in the State of Arizona." Read the entire Phoenix Memo at:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/911.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "[T]he photo of the man in the newspaper was not the
Aaron Stokes they had come to know, [a member of Peace Fresno]. He was
actually Deputy Aaron Kilner. And he had infiltrated their group."
"Aaron Kilner, 27, who joined the force in June 1999 and had been
assigned the last 18 months to the anti-terrorist team under the vice-
intelligence unit, apparently was killed instantly when his blue Yamaha
motorcycle slammed into the right front side of a 1999 Buick, Fresno
police said." Louis Galvan, "Crash Kills Off-Duty Detective, Victim
Joined Fresno County Force in 1999," Fresno Bee, August 31, 2003.
"It remains unclear why the Fresno County Sheriff's Department
infiltrated the peace group there, but Pierce said his department's
actions were legal. ‘We can be anywhere we want to that's open to the
public,’ Pierce said in a telephone interview from his Fresno office."
Sam Stanton and Emily Bazar, "More Scrutiny of Peace Groups, Public
Safety Justifies Surveillance Since 9/11, Authorities Say," Sacramento
Bee, November 9, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Barry Reingold’s story.
"Then there's San Franciscan Barry Reingold, who was awakened from his
afternoon nap by a buzzing intercom on Oct. 23. He called down to the
street to find out who it was. ‘The FBI,’ was the response. He buzzed the
two men up, but decided to meet them in the hall. ‘I was a little bit
shaken up,’ says Mr. Reingold. ‘I mean, why would the FBI be interested
in me, a 60-year-old retired phone company worker?’ When they asked if he
worked out at a certain gym, he realized the reason behind the visit. The
gym is where he lifts weights -- and expounds on his political views."
Kris Axtman, "Political Dissent Can Bring Federal Agents to Door,"
Christian Science Monitor, January 8, 2002. See also, Sam Stanton, Emily
Bazar, "Security Collides With Civil Rights, War On Terrorism Has
Unforeseen Results," Modesto Bee, September 28, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Congress did not read the Patriot Act before voting on
it.
"Later that morning [of October 12], the House voted 337-79 to pass the
bill. The outraged dissenters complained that no one could possibly have
had the time to read the enormously complex 342-page law that amended
fifteen different federal statutes and that had only been printed out
hours before." Steven Brill, After; How America Confronted the September
12 Era, (Simon & Schuster, NY: 2003).
"Many lawmakers were outraged that a bipartisan bill, which had passed
the Judiciary Committee by a unanimous vote, was set aside for
legislation negotiated at the last minute by a very small group. Members
rose to say that almost no one had read the new bill, and pleaded for
more time and more deliberation.... Asked about complaints that lawmakers
were being asked to vote on a bill that they had not read, the chairman
of the Rules Committee, Representative David Dreier, Republican of
California, replied, ‘It's not unprecedented.’" Robin Toner & Neil A.
Lewis, "House Passes Terrorism Bill Much Like Senate's, but With 5-Year
Limit," The New York Times, October 13, 2001.
See also film footage of Congressmen Conyers and McDermott.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Transportation Security Agency says it’s okay to take
four books of matches and two butane lighters in your pockets as you
board an airplane.
"Consistent with Department of Transportation regulations for hazardous
materials, passengers also are permitted to carry no more than four books
of matches (other than strike anywhere matches) and no more than two
lighters for individual use, if the lighters are fueled with liquefied
gas (BIC-or Colibri-type) or absorbed liquid (Zippo-type).’’ 49 CFR
1540; http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/68_FR_9902.pdf
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Thanks to the budget cuts, Trooper Kenyon had to come
in on his day off to catch up on some paperwork."
"Budget cuts that laid off 129 Oregon State Police officers earlier this
year have left a single trooper to cover the 1,400-square-mile territory
and 100 miles of state roads around this city on Oregon's central
coast." "Layoffs Leave Oregon Trooper Alone in Big Coastal Territory,"
Seattle Times, October 6, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "On March 19th, 2003, George W. Bush and the United
States military invaded Iraq, which had never attacked or threatened to
attack the United States. A nation that had never murdered a single
American citizen."
"Iraq has never threatened nor been implicated in any attack against U.S.
territory and the CIA has reported no Iraqi-sponsored attacks against
American interests since 1991." Stephen Zunes, "An Annotated Overview of
the Foreign Policy Segments of President George W. Bush’s State of the
Union Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29, 2003. Segments of
President George W. Bush’s State of the Union Address," Foreign Policy In
Focus, January 29, 2003
"Iraq never threatened U.S.security. Bush officials cynically attacked a
villainous country because they knew it was easier than finding the real
9/11 villain, who had no country. And now they're hoist on their own
canard." Maureen Dowd, "We’re Not Happy Campers," The New York Times,
September 11, 2003.
"Iraq never threatened the US, let alone Australia. The basic
consideration was and remains the perception of America's wider strategic
interest in the Middle East." Richard Woolcott, "Thread bare Basis To The
Homespun Yarn That Led Us Into Iraq," Sydney Morning Herald, November 26,
2003—(Woolcott was Australia’s Secretary of the Department of Foreign
Affairs And Trade during the first Gulf War.)
For definition of murder of civilians (as opposed to combatants), see
Article 3 of the Geneva Convention . ("For persons taking no active part
in the hostilities, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at
any time (a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all
kinds.")
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The Coalition of the Willing included Palau, Costa Rica,
Iceland, Romania, The Netherlands, and Afghanistan.
White House list of Coalition members, March 20th, 2003:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/print/20030320-11.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Morocco , according to one report, offered to send 2,000
monkeys to help detonate landmines.
"The administration has even turned to the animal kingdom for help in the
war. First came the dolphins, those really smart mammals recruited to
help clear mines at the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr. Then came word that
Morocco was offering 2,000 monkeys to help detonate land mines." Al
Kamen, "They Got the ‘Slov’ Part Right," Washington Post, March 28, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "The government would not allow any cameras to show the
coffins coming home."
"For the past 13 years, the Pentagon has barred reporters from witnessing
the transport of soldiers' flag-draped coffins to Dover Air Force Base in
Delaware." Amanda Ripley, "An Image of Grief Returns," Time, May 3, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "At the end of January, of ’04, the unemployment rate in
Flint was actually 17 percent."
Flint City, Jan 04, Unemployment Rate, 17.0%. Office of Labor Market
Information, Michigan State Government.
http://www.michlmi.org/LMI/lmadata/laus/lausdocs/049lf04.htm
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bush "proposed cutting the soldiers’ combat bonus pay 33
percent and assistance to their families by 60 percent."
The Bush administration announced that it would roll-back ‘modest’
increases of benefits to troops. The Army Times noted, "the
administration announced that on Oct. 1 it wants to roll back recent
modest increases in monthly imminent-danger from $225 to $150 (a cut of
33%) and family-separation allowances from $250 to $100 (a cut of 60%)
for troops getting shot at in combat zones."
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292259-1989240.php
"Thanks to a law passed this year, troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and other
high-risk areas now receive $225 a month in supplemental pay. That's an
increase of $75 from the previous amount for combat pay. Under that same
law, soldiers who have been forced to leave behind spouses and children
receive $250 a month in additional separation pay to help cover child
care and other additional expenses caused by assignment overseas. That's
an increase of $150 over the previous supplement. ... In its 2004 budget
request, the Pentagon asked Congress to cut both combat pay and
separation pay back to the previous levels." "Our Opinions: Proposal to
Reduce Pay No Way to Salute Military," Atlanta Journal Constitution,
August 15, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "He proposed cutting $1.3 billion in veterans’ health
care and closing seven veteran’s hospitals. He tried to double the
prescription drug costs for veterans and opposed full benefits for part
time reservist."
"On Nov. 12, the Office of Management & Budget opposed restoring $1.3
billion in funding for Veterans Administration hospitals that the House
Appropriations Committee had cut. '’It's as if they're not even aware
[that] there's a war on terror going on,’ says Steve Thomas, an American
Legion spokesman and Navy vet who notes casualties in Iraq could make
demand for VA services soar." Stan Crock in Washington, with William C.
Symonds in Boston, "Will The Troops Salute Bush In '04?," Business Week,
December 8, 2003.
"The White House had expressed its ‘strong opposition’ to the Senate’s
effort to expand military health benefits to reservists and National
Guard members, and boost 'veterans’ health care spending by $1.3
billion." Jonathan Weisman, "Bush Aides Threaten Veto of Iraqi Aid
Measure," Washington Post, October 22, 2003.
In early 2003, the Bush administration announced that it was closing
"seven of its 163 veteran’s hospitals in an effort to ‘restructure’ the
Department of Veterans Affairs." Suzanne Gamboa, "VA Proposes Overhaul,
13 Facilities Would Close or See Major Changes," Associated Press, August
4, 2003.
In 2003, the Bush administration proposed increasing prescription drug
costs for veterans, a proposal that would have doubled the cost of
prescription drugs. "The Bush plan would have included a new $250
enrollment fee and a co-pay increase from $7 to $15 for veterans earning
over $24,000." The House amended the proposal to reject the Bush
administration’s fee increases and to recoup the $264 million in costs by
reducing administrative funding for the VA. "Panel Rejects Extra Funds
for AmeriCorps," Washington Post, July 22, 2003.
"The Bush administration is flatly opposed to giving the Guard and
Reserve access to the Pentagon's health system." Opinion, The Daily News
Leader (Staunton, VA), October 25, 2003.
"U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., has helped push a bill through the
Senate to improve the health care benefits of Guard and Reserve members.
This bill has had broad bipartisan support since it was introduced in
May. Last week Graham had his health care plan attached as an amendment
to the $87 billion supplemental appropriations bill that President Bush
is seeking to pay for ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The
House should take up the amendment next week. Strangely, the Bush
administration has opposed this new benefit for Guard and Reserve
members, arguing that it would be too expensive." Staff, "Helping our
Guard and Reserve," The Greenville News, October 16, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Nearly 5,000 wounded in the war.
"A year ago at this time, more than 160 American soldiers had been killed
in Iraq. The total since has risen to more than 800, and last week the
Pentagon reported that the number wounded in action is approaching
4,700." Pete Yost, "Bush Hails U.S. War Dead and Veterans," Associated
Press, June 1, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Out of the 535 members of Congress, only one had an
enlisted son in Iraq."
“Only four of the 535 members of Congress have children in the military;
only one, Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., has a child who fought in Iraq.”
Kevin Horrigan, “Hired Guns,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch, May 11, 2003.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=21
-- Impeachment was created for people like G.W Bush
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ "The big elephant sitting in the corner is
that George W. Bush is simply unqualified for the job... What's his
accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?" -Ronald Reagan Jr.
dave
the distorted ads against Kerry. The major Texas backer is a Bush backer and
close friend of Rove. Ginbsberg, the Bush lawyer that just quit, works for
the Vets and some of those Vets have worked for the Bush campaign.
It's amazing that they will support someone like Bush, who avoided REAL
service.
"Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cctXc.5575$HX3....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
Hyperventilating Johnny
> Bush has always engaged in distortion and dirty campaigning.
Or so the Democrat losers like to claim.
Yet he always defeats his Demmie opponents.
Do you Democrats EVER stop to ask yourselves "Why?"
Fact Checker
Normally I pride myself on my evenhandedness, but there comes a
time when you have to give up the ghost, and the ghost now is
gone. I feel I have to join, as Brad Delong would say, the "ranks
of the shrill." I do not do this out of allegiance to the
Republicans' chief opponents; I am not and have never been a
registered Democrat. I'm old enough to have voted in three
presidential elections, and in only one of those I voted for a
Democrat--Clinton in '96. My other two votes were for third party
candidates (and in 2000 I lived in Massachusetts, so anyone about
to yelp that my Nader vote handed the country to Bush can shove
it.) The Democratic Party has exhibited, in the years I've been
paying attention, an almost ceaseless ability to disappoint me.
Its representatives are too often spineless, too often lukewarm
facismiles of Republicans. They fundraise whorishly, and the only
backhanded compliment that can be paid to their venal pursuit of
money is that they aren't very good at it (the Republicans are
much better). Most of all the Democratic Party's willful
ignorance--its mendacity and prevarication--in the face of
Rwandan genocide will stain forever its claim to being the party
of internationalism. On a final, personal note, back when I was
more of a working journalist I interviewed John Kerry and found
him, frankly, annoying. Nevertheless, absent some unforeseen
circumstance (for instance, my getting a lobotomy) I plan to vote
for him in the fall.
I'll vote for Kerry because for all that is wrong with the
Democrats, the Republican Party is something else altogether.
What was once the Party of Lincoln has become the party of
obstreperous children, alternately pouting and bullying,
dismissive of complicated problems that aren't easily resolved
and fixated instead on the simplistic and the irrelevant. Abraham
Lincoln grabbed a backward portion of our country and tried to
drag it by force into the future, but the future is not where
today's Republican Party--or at least the faction of the party
that sets its agenda--finds its strength or inspiration. The
Republican Party of the early twenty-first century is history's
hostage but not its student; it panders to a past whose details
are often wrong or invented; opposes science and secularism;
longs for a world of absolutist morality, and wages a cultural
war of attrition against any behavior that falls outside its
narrow conception of what is decent.
Thus we have a party whose domestic policies, rather than
meaningfully addressing issues like health care or unemployment,
include a bigoted constitutional amendment to deny gays and
lesbians the right to marry (the sort of law in existence today
in only the most benighted of nations); another consitutional
amendment that would prohibit the destruction of an American flag
(an ordinance, again, that is most often the hallmark of
totalitarian, idolatrous and theocratic regimes); and a desire to
return prayer to schools while at the same time expelling
science. We have a party whose romance for the Confederacy
betrays both an appalling insensitivity to African-Americans and
an ignorance of what the Confederacy actually was.
This is not the party of William Weld and John DiIulio, nor of
Herbert Stein or William F. Buckley Jr.--a party of honorable and
intelligent conservatism that believed in nuance and
give-and-take. It is instead the party of Tom Delay and Ann
Coulter, of character assassination first and engagement with the
issues second. This is a party determined to paint Hilary
Clinton--who, let's be honest, is at most a center-left
liberal--as some sort of raging communist. It is the party that
houses Sean Hannity, a man who equates liberalism with
"terrorism" and "despotism." It is the party of the Wall Street
Journal's editorial page, whose hissing opinions often contradict
the facts uncovered by its excellent reporters, and whose
"journalism" throughout the Clinton years consisted of dark
insinuation that the president and his wife had murdered a number
of people.
And yet, come election time, it is a party that lacks even the
courage of these convictions. Look at the list of speakers
scheduled to talk at the Republican National Convention; what you
will find is a festival of moderates: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Rudy
Guiliani, Michael Bloomberg. All urban Republicans, all
pro-choice, most in favor of gay rights, a number of them in
favor of gun control. And none with any influence whatsoever on
the national Republican Party; they disagree outright with the
leadership on most social issues. So why are they there? Why does
the Convention not include remarks from Trent Lott or Tom DeLay?
Where is Dick Armey? Where is the vicious homophobia of Rick
Santorum, or the evangelism of Pat "Gays and feminists caused
9/11" Robertson? The Democrats gave Dennis Kucinich and Al
Sharpton their moments before the cameras; both are quite extreme
in their own way, and both, for better or worse, have almost no
say in their party's platform. But the Republicans' extremists
control their party, and are nevertheless hustled into the closet
when the time comes for a parade in front of the American people.
This false face of moderation is one of two grand lies
perpetuated by the national GOP. The second lie is victimhood,
capital-V Victimhood, forever, victimhood. The party of big money
and big business laments endlessly that it is marginalized and
persecuted, that the government works continuously against it,
that the press distorts and ignores its positions. Only sheer
repetition could make this scenario plausible. Never mentioned is
that the party of big business accounts for most of the money
pumped into the government, or that it owns most of the press, or
that there is an explicitly and rabidly conservative news network
but no explicitly rabid and liberal one. No matter: the facts
should never be allowed to obstruct the narriative. Thus a
spokesman for House Speaker Dennis Hastert says with a straight
face, "it's extremely difficult to govern when you control all
three branches of government." Thus in the New York Times, that
ultra-liberal newspaper that lets him trumpet his opinions twice
a week, David Brooks makes the bizarre and completely
unsubstantiated assertion that anyone opposed to neoconservative
policies is actually anti-Semitic. Thus Ann Coulter writes a
best-selling book, heavily laden with name-calling, which accuses
liberals of always calling Republicans names.
And I can't take it anymore. It is a silly cliché to say that all
politicians lie, and it is naïve to be outraged when elected
officials act in their own interests first and in the interests
of those they represent second. It can be no other way--a
politician can accomplish nothing without first being elected,
and so on the list of priorities being elected must always rise
to the top. But there are, within this depressing calculus,
varying degrees of behavior, varying degrees to which the truth
gets manipulated, and we are governed now by people who lie as a
first or second rather than a last resort. Our presidential
campaigns, which have for a long time been shallow contests in
misdirection, have careened into newer and lower depravities. An
honest analysis of this situation would find no one innocent, but
would also apportion blame far more to one side than the other.
Yes, both parties have poisoned the barrel, but it is the
Republicans who consistently scrape against its bottom. Willie
Horton. Liberals hating the pledge of allegiance. Liberals
coddling crime. Fuzzy math. Inventing the Internet. All are
actors in this theater of the irrelevant, all have made our
electoral dialogue that much dumber, and all have emerged from
the Grand Old Party's machinery of falsehood.
Anyone who cares to look can find at least a hundred reasons not
to return the Republican Party to power in November. In the
interest of brevity, and just as a start, I'm going to list
eight. Bear in mind, when reading, all that I'm leaving out: the
war in Iraq; the abandonment of Afghanistan; the support of Ahmad
Chalabi, who was an Iranian spy; the destruction of Valerie
Plame, who was an American one; "Curveball"; the storming of the
Dade County courthouse; the chicanery surrounding the costs of
the Medicare bill; the attempt to further consolidate media
ownership; the comprehensive rollback of environmental
regulations; the unjust imprisonment of immigrants and American
citizens; the legal limbo of Guantanamo Bay; the farming out of
torture to Syrian surrogates; the casual lies about previous
statements (Donald Rumsfeld insisting he never said Saddam was an
imminent threat, the Administration saying the "Mission
Accomplished" banner wasn't its idea). I am anything but an
idealist, but even I expect something better from my government
than the disdain these people have heaped on us. It's time for
them to go.
http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.asp?id=304
--
Warm Regards,
Raven Cecil
"I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that
much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you... I truly am
not that concerned about him." [George W. Bush] "Well, I've
got to be honest too. Considering that Bush's Administration
regularly initiates ... terror alerts based on threats from
bin Laden's organization, it's a little disconcerting that
the President pays the man no mind. He certainly seems to
want the rest of us to worry about Osama. Why doesn't he
worry about him?" [Michael Manville]
"/Staying Angry/ is the best article you've never read."
http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.asp?id=304
[Raven Cecil]
Hyperventilating Johnny
> Bush has always engaged in distortion and dirty campaigning.
Bush has always DEFEATED your Democrat Party wussie candidates, you mean!
dave
I am amazed at your attempt to present sense to this poster, and to such an
extent. I would love to think a Bush supporter would read even half of it.
So much of this information has been, while little on Fox or in depth from
most American media, available to the public from other sources and covered
lightly by the American media. It seems much of America has been suffering
from ADHD "Attention Deficit Hyper-Reactive Distortion" syndrome.
Soundbite Americans don't consider the Bush/Carlyle/bin Laden/Baker
connections, or the fact the Bush's brother Neil was high level in the
security firm for the WTC, or the Cheney & Porter Goss votes that were more
extreme than those Bush attacks of Kerry's, or the Bush & DeLay tactics in
business, government and political PACs.
It's all plainly obvious that Bush is a disaster, even ignoring ALL the
myriad of Bush's mistakes and quasi-legality of his behavior, just the mere
fact that he managed to turn a world that was with us post 9/11, to ashes.
Or just the fact that he continues to prove so Un-Presidential by not
condemning the SwiftBoat Distortions, thereby approving of them.
Some America this has become when even once self-respecting Republicans of
the past are too afraid to speak out. Sad times, but I still hope that
enough Americans will wake up and kick Bush out.
dave
"Hyperventilating Johnny" <Bigge...@JohnKerry.net> wrote in message
news:REvXc.1291$W_5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Perhaps because blind-to-the-truth, hate mongers like a WWF phoney in the
White House.
Miles Long
I don't mind replying to guys like that, it pays to be polite. Besides
I have three things in my favor, I have the tools, the time and the
talent. Not to mention, it's fun poking them...
Miles "Multitasking Mayhem" Long
Hyperventilating Johnny
"Fact Checker" <fre...@hatemail.com> wrote in message
news:10it2df...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hyperventilating Johnny wrote:
>
> > "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
> > news:wOudncVTB-t...@gbronline.com...
> >
> >>Bush has always engaged in distortion and dirty campaigning.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or so the Democrat losers like to claim.
> >
> > Yet he always defeats his Demmie opponents.
> >
> > Do you Democrats EVER stop to ask yourselves "Why?"
>
> Democrats, the Republican Party is something else altogether.
Wow, sounds like you have nothing good to say about your guy Kerry!
That's a sentiment a LOT of Democrats before you have expressed, FC. I
guess that's because you're a follower, rather than any sort of leader?
Aegis
> Bush has always engaged in distortion and dirty campaigning.
But you'll lead us to believe Kerry hasn't.
> Bush is tied to the distorted ads against Kerry.
Oh yeah... Bob Perry... Forgot about that... Bush KNOWS Bob Perry... The
SWVFT's got a lot of money from Bob Perry... Hmm... IT'S EVIL BUSH DOING
THIS!!! Or could it be that Bob Perry supports Bush AND believes in the
SWVFT cause? No!!! Can't be that! They are Republicans!
> The major Texas backer is a Bush backer and close friend of Rove.
> Ginbsberg, the Bush lawyer that just quit, works for
> the Vets and some of those Vets have worked for the Bush campaign.
Showing they do, indeed, have a motive for releasing these ads to get their
candidate in... True... STILL doesn't implicate BUSH.
>
> It's amazing that they will support someone like Bush, who avoided REAL
> service.
LOL Tell me what you THINK you know about Bush's service... Honestly... I
want to see your arguments.
Hyperventilating Johnny
But remember - he's "a moron" (according to the Democrat Party) so perhaps
(unlike in 2000, when he defeated a sitting Vice President) he will lose
this time to a rather undistinguished ultraliberal rich northeastern
Democrat Senator? Ya think??
Aegis
"Hyperventilating Johnny" <Big...@kerry.com> wrote in message
news:3TvXc.1331$W_5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Good point... Every election I've been alive for BOTH parties have engaged
in distortion and "dirty" campaigning. Democrats (hypocrites) always seem to
conveniently ignore THEIR evils while simultaneously pointing out others.
Aegis
Why not? Is your cause not important enough to present to everyone? And I DO
read it. But I have to crunch a reply of this size over time.
>>
>> So much of this information has been, while little on Fox or in depth
>> from
>> most American media, available to the public from other sources and
>> covered
>> lightly by the American media. It seems much of America has been
>> suffering
>> from ADHD "Attention Deficit Hyper-Reactive Distortion" syndrome.
>>
>> Soundbite Americans don't consider the Bush/Carlyle/bin Laden/Baker
>> connections, or the fact the Bush's brother Neil was high level in the
>> security firm for the WTC, or the Cheney & Porter Goss votes that were
>> more
>> extreme than those Bush attacks of Kerry's, or the Bush & DeLay tactics
>> in
>> business, government and political PACs.
We do know of these things and we consider them. We just see a coincidence
as just that until proven otherwise. The liberal side tends to distrust
first and assume worst case. You are the "guilty before proven innocent"
type. And shady or immoral tactics are employed by BOTH sides. If you want
to criticize that, I'm right there with you... As long as you chide BOTH
sides.
>>
>> It's all plainly obvious that Bush is a disaster, even ignoring ALL the
>> myriad of Bush's mistakes and quasi-legality of his behavior, just the
>> mere
>> fact that he managed to turn a world that was with us post 9/11, to
>> ashes.
>> Or just the fact that he continues to prove so Un-Presidential by not
>> condemning the SwiftBoat Distortions, thereby approving of them.
What right does a President have to condemn a group of free citizens for
expressing their beliefs?
>>
>> Some America this has become when even once self-respecting Republicans
>> of
>> the past are too afraid to speak out. Sad times, but I still hope that
>> enough Americans will wake up and kick Bush out.
>>
Not afraid to speak out... Tired of the Democrats not listening...
>>
>
> I don't mind replying to guys like that, it pays to be polite. Besides
> I have three things in my favor, I have the tools, the time and the
> talent. Not to mention, it's fun poking them...
>
Why can't we disagree or take different sides on an issue without it being
"personal"? I have nothing against you or what you believe. I just believe
differently.
> Miles "Multitasking Mayhem" Long
Miles Long
Nice thought, but I was responding to your assertions with fact,
not warm fuzzies. F9/11 is factual, slanted, but fact else some
enterprising person would have claimed one or more of the myriad
rewards for discovering flaws or lies.
The same goes for the ads broadcast by MoveOn.org. Fact, or you
could bet your ass some conservative Republican would be in court
suing them in a New York minute. That's the difference between
what Boy George is doing with his surrogates and what the rest of
the world is doing in opposition to GW being elected in the fall.
One more item. As for the issue of coordination between campaigns
and 527 organizations, no one on the Democratic side has to coordinate
when the target, GW, has nothing positive to present to the public.
Shooting fish in a barrel would present a more difficult task than
presenting the negatives this administration's draped themselves in.
Miles "Sitting Duck" Long
>
>>Miles "Multitasking Mayhem" Long
>
>
>
Aegis
Exactly my point. Accusation that Bush is somehow orchestrating the SBVFT
ads. There is no proof of these accusations. Therefore it is NOT a fact.
> One more item. As for the issue of coordination between campaigns
> and 527 organizations, no one on the Democratic side has to coordinate
> when the target, GW, has nothing positive to present to the public.
> Shooting fish in a barrel would present a more difficult task than
> presenting the negatives this administration's draped themselves in.
And the Right-wing view of that is exactly opposite. Kerry himself chose to
make his Vietnam experience (such that 4 months is) a major hinge point in
his campaign. To use a different version of your own words: "...no one on
the Republican side has to coordinate when the target, Kerry, has nothing
positive to present to the public."
Same thing; different perspective.
dave
"Hyperventilating Johnny" <LiarM...@DNC.org> wrote in message
news:Y8wXc.4950$Y%3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
dave
in campaign. No other campaign has EVER distorted, twisted, defamed and lied
as the Bush buddies have.
dave
When Bush joined the Guard, joining the Guard WAS avoided service.
"Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47wXc.5615$Ac5....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
dave
> >>>the country between 9.11.2001 - 9.15.2001, see US Customs and Border
> >>>Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security
> >>>under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004;
> >>>http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf. TheSt.
> >>>Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004: o "Two days after the Sept.
11
> >>>attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small
> >>>jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi
> >>>men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi
> >>>royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa
> >>>police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took
> >>>another flight out of the country."
> >>>
> >>>o Moreover: "For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law
> >>>enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and
have
> >>>denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its
> >>>purpose. The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said
> >>>in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard,
> >>>mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24,
> >>>2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight. The 9/11
> >>>the Afghan city of Kandahar on Monday, the Arabic daily Al-Hayat said..
> >>>to have ties to - or even knowledge of - terrorist groups who might
> >>>threaten American security in the future. Instead, hundreds of
> >>>immigrants were arbitrarily snared in this dragnet, marked for arrest
> >>>and thrown (literally, at times) in jail. The exact number is unknown,
> >>>because the government refuses to release that information. They had
one
> >>>thing in common: Almost all were Arab or South Asian men, and almost
all
> >>>were Muslim... Once arrested, many immigrants were labeled "of
interest"
> >>>to the September 11 investigation and thrown into legal limbo -
> >>>1991. (Bush was CIA director, 1976-1977.) "Sometime around 1974. Bath
> >>>was trying to sell a F-27 turboprop, a sluggish medium-range plane that
> >>>was not exactly a hot ticket in those days, when he received a phone
> >>>call that changed his life. The voice no the other end belonged to
> >>>Salem bin Laden. Bath not only had a buyer for a plane no one else
> >>>seemed to want, he had also stumbled upon a source of wealth and power
> >>>that was certain to pique the interest of even the brashest Texas oil
> >>>baron." Craig Unger, House of Bush, House of Saud, pp,19-20 (Scribner:
> >>>New York, 2004). FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "George W. Bush founded an oil
> >>>company, a drilling company, out in west Texas called Arbusto, which
was
> >>>very good at drilling dry holes."
> >>>
> >>>"After graduating from the Harvard Business School, Bush organized his
> >>>first company, Arbusto Energy (Arbusto is Spanish for Bush) in 1977 on
> >>>the eve of a run for Congress. According to records on file with the
> >>>Securities and Exchange Commission, Arbusto didn't start active
> >>>operations until March 1979.. According to 1984 securities filings,
> >>>"Bush's name .was to help rescue him, just as it had attracted
investors
> >>>and helped revive his flagging fortunes throughout his years in the
> >>>dusty plains city of Midland. A big Dallas-based firm, Harken Oil and
> >>>Gas, was looking to buy up troubled oil companies. After finding
> >>>Spectrum, Harken's executives saw a bonus in their target's CEO,
despite
> >>>his spotty track record. By the end of September 1986, the deal was
> >>>done. Harken assumed $ 3.1 million in debts and swapped $ 2.2 million
of
> >>>its stock for a company that was hemorrhaging money, though it had oil
> >>>and gas reserves projected to produce $ 4 million in future net
revenue.
> >>>Harken, a firm that liked to attach itself to stars, had also acquired
> >>>Bush, whom it used not as an operating manager but as a high-profile
> >>>board member.. It was one of the biggest breaks of Bush's life. Still,
> >>>represented him against . allegations arising from his sale of stock in
> >>>Harken Energy Co. 11 years ago." G. Robert Hillman, "Bush Taps Dallas
> >>>Attorney to be Ambassador to Saudi Arabia," The Dallas Morning News,
> >>>July 21, 2001. FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "After the Harken debacle, the friends
> >>>of Bush's dad got him a seat on another board, of a company owned by
the
> >>>Carlyle Group."
> >>>
> >>>"Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the
> >>>director of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that
> >>>the President's eldest son, George W. Bush, would 'be a positive
> >>>addition to Caterair's board.' Mr. Malek was also a Caterair director
> >>>and vice chairman of Northwest Airlines, a major Caterair customer. 'I
> >>>thought George W. Bush could make a contribution to Caterair,' stated
> >>>Malek. Malek further claimed, 'He would be on the board even if his
> >>>father weren't President.'" Kenneth N. Gilpin, "Little-Known Carlyle
> >>>Scores Big," New York Times, March 26, 1991 Co-Founder of Carlyle
Group,
> >>>David Rubenstein, talking about setting up Cater Air after Carlyle
> >>>acquired it: "When we're putting together the board," Rubenstein said,
> >>>'somebody came to me and said 'Look, there is a guy who would like to
be
> >>>on the board. He's kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs
> >>>some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary
> >>>and he'll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management
> >>>and so forth.' .We put him on the board and (he) spent three years.
> >>>Came to all the meetings. . And after a while I kind of said to him,
> >>>after about three years - 'You know, I'm not sure this is really for
> >>>the company public only after the Sept. 11 attacks. . On Sept. 26,
> >>>stable of retired politicians as superannuated 'access capitalists.'" .
> >>>Carlyle had sponsored visits by Bush Sr. to South Korea and China, and
> >>>his clout with the Saudi government - perhaps Carlyle's most important
> >>>customer - is also likely to be valued. Conal Walsh, "The Carlyle
> >>>influential Washington political figures. In recent years, Frank C.
> >>>Robert Burns, "US Advises Saudi Military On Range Of Threats-Including
> >>>Terrorism," Associated Press, November 13, 1995.
> >>>
> >>>In 1995, BDM collected a contract to "augment Royal Saudi Air Force
staff
> >>>in developing, implementing, and maintaining logistics and engineering
> >>>plans and programs." Worth: $32,500,000. Defense Daily, "Defense
> >>>Contracts," June 23, 1995, as cited by Craig Unger.
> >>>
> >>>In 1996, BDM was awarded a contract "to provide construction of 110
> >>>housing units at the MK-1 Compound, Khamis Mushayt, Saudi Arabia, for
> >>>Technical Support Program personnel assisting the Royal Saudi Air
Force..
> >>>million, it is likely that their cut would be-as lead
> >>>contractor-significantly more than $40 million. See, Petroleum
> >>>buffalo hunt.." Worth: $1,000,000. Siobhan McDonough, "Gifts to
> >>>9/11 investigation.. When he couldn't stop Congress, he then tried to
companies -
> >>>an average of more than $10 million a person and a sum that is roughly
> >>>equivalent to the gross domestic product of Spain." Craig Unger, House
> >>>of Bush, House of Saud, (Scribner: New York, 2004).
> >>>"Allan Gerson, an attorney who represents about 3,600 family members of
> >>>victims of the September 11 terrorist attacks . said he is not suing
> >>>dollars on deposit in U.S. banks - an agreement worked out in the early
> >>>known that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis..One top U.S. official
> >>>terrorist attacks. Most recently, the F.B.I. has named Mr. bin Laden as
> >>>2003-(Woolcott was Australia's Secretary of the Department of Foreign
Aeg, the mistake you make is that you don't base your "beliefs" as you put
it, in facts. Try some facts and your eyes will open and your view will
change.
Aegis
Aegis
I don't do welfare... Not needed and wouldn't accept it anyway. Every
guardsman, even back then, knows they can go to war. Hell, knowing what I
know now, you're SAFER in active duty than the reserves or guard. But so
what? He went Guard... You saying that everyone who joins (or joined in his
day) the Guard during a time of war is a coward?
Aegis
And I believe they ARE based on facts... Either facts you dismiss/ignore or,
possibly, the very same facts which I interpret differently.
dave
dave
Check it out, back then the Guard was the SAFEST duty.
dave
> >
> > Aeg, the mistake you make is that you don't base your "beliefs" as you
put
> > it, in facts. Try some facts and your eyes will open and your view will
> > change.
> >
>
> And I believe they ARE based on facts... Either facts you dismiss/ignore
or,
> possibly, the very same facts which I interpret differently.
>
>
to us and the U.S. He has not represented the majority of Americans and he
has distorted and misled. America has done better than Bush, and we can do
better again WITHOUT him. We will be paying a terrible price for his term
for a generation.
Aegis
Well let me research, but somehow I bet I can find something comparable...
maybe even from the Dem side, who knows... Then again, when it comes to
distortion, twisting, defamation, and lying, it would be REALLY hard for
ANYONE to trump Moore.
Aegis
I'll give ya that. But it was better than running to Canada (and then later
being pardoned by Carter). Don't act like Kerry didn't do a little
manipulation of his own... 4 months in Vietnam? Most vets WISHED they could
get away with that. And he got on some swiftboat action, which, at that
time, wasn't combat duty. I'd love to know his reaction after he found out
his manipulation was successful, but ineffective.
The fact is BOTH of these guys knew they wanted careers in politics and
possibly a shot at the Presidency and BOTH made decisions to help ensure
survival to get there.
Aegis
There hasn't been a President since WWI that hasn't "distorted or misled" in
some way. I don't see the damage as being as bad as you claim. We went a
different direction finally. Yes it was hard, but we needed to get off the
path we were on. This nation can no longer afford to be so complacent. I
know you'll disagree with that. As for majority... We'll find out what the
majority wants to do very soon. If we/they choose Kerry, I'll roll with it.
Same with Bush. It's not for me, alone, to say what this nation should do
(although I'm entitled to my opinion as you are with yours) and I will
always respect the majority.
Barney Lyon
newsgroups.
You've said what everybody that I know talks about. About how
Congress used to operate. When elected reps worked for us instead of
working for campaign contributions from big business. When our
elected reps compromised with elected reps from around the country, to
get govt to work for all us. All of the people.
Nobody got everything that they went to the bargaining table for, but
everybody got something to satisfy them. Nobody came away
empty-handed, demoralized, robbed of dignity, as is happening with the
Republicans being in charge of all branches of govt these days.
I used to have Republican friends. Hell, I always had Republican
friends. When we'd talk politics, which was frequently, it was always
good-natured jousting. Despite our differences philosphically on
managing the problems of the world, we always respected each other.
We knew that if the chips were ever really down, and we had to rely on
the other's party to look out for our bottom line, people at their
most vulnerable and helpless, it would be fine. People are people
after all. Man oh man, were we wrong - the Medicare Reform Act of
2004.
Somewhere during Reagan things started to turn. A little cold. A
little mean. A little self-serving. Walls coming down in Europe and
going up in America. By the time the Willie Horton ads were aired, we
avoided political discussions. And by the time that Bush lost to
Clinton, we avoided each other altogether. When Republicans impeached
Clinton, we stopped even the wave/nod acknowledgment when our paths
would cross in public.
I think this is how Hitler's regime got German citizens to turn on
Jews, assimilated for generations, who had lived among them all their
lives.
Fact Checker <fre...@hatemail.com> wrote in message news:<10it2df...@corp.supernews.com>...
Fact Checker
has stated:
> Wow, sounds like you have nothing good to say about your guy Kerry!
>
> That's a sentiment a LOT of Democrats before you have expressed, FC. I
> guess that's because you're a follower, rather than any sort of leader?
>
Actually, I have plenty of good things to say about Kerry.
You are just another banal idle-headed neo-conservative who has
trouble reading. Let me spell it out for you:
I... did... not... write... the... article.
So, you are not a follower, eh? I didn't realize you were
campaigning for the presidency.
"It is better to remain silent and appear a fool than to speak
and remove all doubt." [Abraham Lincoln]
--
Warm Regards,
Raven Cecil
"I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that
much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you... I truly am
not that concerned about him." [George W. Bush] "Considering
that Bush's Administration regularly initiates ... terror
alerts based on threats from bin Laden's organization, it's
a little disconcerting that the President pays the man no
mind. He certainly seems to want the rest of us to worry
about Osama. Why doesn't he worry about him?"
[Michael Manville]
"_Staying Angry_ is the best article you've never read."
http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.asp?id=304
[Raven Cecil]
But Bu$h@yahoo.com anybody-but-bush
"Hyperventilating Johnny" <Big...@kerry.com> wrote in message
news:3TvXc.1331$W_5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
: news:wOudncVTB-t...@gbronline.com...
: > Bush has always engaged in distortion and dirty campaigning.
:
: Bush has always DEFEATED your Democrat Party wussie candidates, you mean!
:
Only by lying cheating and paying off the supreme court asshole.\
--
I'm sorry if I misread your intentions. It won't happen again.
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'.~..../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\..
PLONK!
I will never read another of your words again!
abb
www.airamericaradio.com
Creating more neocon assholes without creating more neocons.
Learn how to rip your favorite neocon a new one using today's current events.
Footnote: The image of the Cheney family crest used by permission.
:
George Washington Hayduke
>"Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:OwxXc.5754$OR5...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
>> possibly, the very same facts which I interpret differently.
>Maybe you aren't seeking out enough sources. Bush has done tremendous damage
>to us and the U.S.
That's a massive understatement. We may never fully recover
George Washington Hayduke
>We went a different direction finally. Yes it was hard,
>but we needed to get off the path we were on.
Yeah, peace and Democracy and our Constitution and Bill of Rights
were getting old. Yep. And who needs jobs? Yes, the new direction
this fascist regime has brought us is _so_ much better than the old
Constitutional Republic in Democracy we used to have.
George Washington Hayduke
>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>news:FfednfjmfNG...@gbronline.com...
>> in campaign. No other campaign has EVER distorted, twisted, defamed and
>> lied as the Bush buddies have.
>If you say so.
The whole world says so -- as well as the majority of the people of
the United States. You're in the vast minority opinion.
Steveo
> "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
> news:wOudncVTB-t...@gbronline.com...
>
>>Bush has always engaged in distortion and dirty campaigning.
>
>
>
> Bush has always DEFEATED your Democrat Party wussie candidates, you mean!
More people voted for Al Gore.
El Loco
originate the quote "It is better to remain silent and appear a fool than to speak
> and remove all doubt". That is an ancient Chinese proverb.
Jeezuz, can't you anti American Bush haters get anything right?
===========
"Fact Checker" <fre...@hatemail.com> wrote in message news:10iu4nb...@corp.supernews.com...
Aegis
"Jingo" <Ji...@AFreeAmerica.com> wrote in message
news:48iui05u3rnh8co21...@4ax.com...
Yes he did... He also spliced that video together, sometimes in mid-sentence
to create an illusion.
Give me audio of you saying, "I love pie" and, "I hate rapists" and I can
produce a track that has you saying, "I love rapists." Get it? Well that's a
quite simple version... Moore is the MASTER of this technique. He pulled the
same crap on Heston in Bowling for Columbine. In some cases the audio/video
was pulled from speeches given a year apart.
>
> Bush has financed lies about decorated veterans.
>
> Can you see the difference numbnuts?
More name-calling. What proof do you have that Bush financed a damn thing
related to lies about vets? Yet another "guilty until proven innocent"
argument. Want me to address you as "comrad" too?
>
> Jingo
>
>
> ***
>
> "The question is, where is George Bush's honor? Where is his shame?"
>
> --Vietnam vet Max Cleland
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/opinion/27herbert.html?hp
Aegis
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>news:FfednfjmfNG...@gbronline.com...
>>> Poor point. Bush has taken the Gold medal for slime, sleaze and
>>> distortion
>>> in campaign. No other campaign has EVER distorted, twisted, defamed and
>>> lied as the Bush buddies have.
>>If you say so.
>
> The whole world says so -- as well as the majority of the people of
> the United States. You're in the vast minority opinion.
>
I think this election will prove you wrong.
Aegis
"Steveo" <ste...@enddick.com> wrote in message
news:LmKXc.263$nH3...@chiapp18.algx.net...
What good is that in a Democratic Republic?
Aegis
"Jingo" <Ji...@AFreeAmerica.com> wrote in message
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 05:56:01 GMT, "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>news:ydqdnQrx0-G...@gbronline.com...
>
>>>
>>I'll give ya that. But it was better than running to Canada (and then
>>later
>>being pardoned by Carter). Don't act like Kerry didn't do a little
>>manipulation of his own... 4 months in Vietnam? Most vets WISHED they
>>could
>>get away with that. And he got on some swiftboat action, which, at that
>>time, wasn't combat duty.
>
Are you daft? No, swiftboats, at the time Kerry took the assignment, were
not sent into hot zones. They were, at that time, essentially performing
Coast Guard type duties.
Approx. two weeks after Kerry was posted to his boat, coincidentally,
Admiral Zumwalt ordered the swiftboats into the hot zones. Zumwalt later
lost his son in Vietnam, who was commanding a swiftboat of his own.
>
> Have you right wing fools lost your minds?
Have you lost the ability to resist liberal propaganda? ...or did you ever
have it?
>
>> I'd love to know his reaction after he found out
>>his manipulation was successful, but ineffective.
>
> Kerry went out and did his job.
True enough. Wasn't what he expected. Dismiss the fact that he, too,
attempted to weasel into a safe comfy position. But yes, he went out and did
his job.
>
> Meanwhile DubYa was nailing bimbos, snorting coke and chugging Jack
> Daniels in Houston.
Receipts? Photos? ANYTHING?
>
>>The fact is BOTH of these guys knew they wanted careers in politics and
>>possibly a shot at the Presidency and BOTH made decisions to help ensure
>>survival to get there.
>
> So you volunteered to serve in Vietnam to assure your survival?
>
> You are joking aren't you?
You can't be that dense... If you know (or strongly suspect) you are going
to be drafted, yes... Volunteering is to your benefit because then you get
CHOICES! If you sit back and let the draft sweep you up, you have NO
choices.
Aegis
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>We went a different direction finally. Yes it was hard,
>>but we needed to get off the path we were on.
>
> Yeah, peace and Democracy and our Constitution and Bill of Rights
> were getting old.
I believe you know damn well that wasn't the "path" I was referring to. I
expect candidates and campaigns to "twist and distort"... Didn't expect YOU
to.
> Yep. And who needs jobs? Yes, the new direction
You mean the low paying jobs that we shuttle illegal aliens into the country
to do for us?
> this fascist regime has brought us is _so_ much better than the old
> Constitutional Republic in Democracy we used to have.
I see noting fascist about it.
dave
about the fact that he has a view, whereas the Bush gang pretend they are
being honest.
dave
reality, honesty and decency.
dave
If the votes had been properly counted, a tremendous amount of good. As it
turned out, we didn't have an election in 2000, we had a selection.
dave
To your earlier post, Kerry grew up knowing public service through his
father, so I will grant you that he planned on public service. Bush didn't
know which end was up. Bush has tremendous political connections since his
father was a President, unlike John Kerry, who, as I said above, had a
father who was only in public service rather than politics. When Kerry went
into politics, some of the motivation had to be undoing the damage of
Vietnam and the Nixonians.
Coast Guard here vs. "Coast Guard" in Vietnam - which would you prefer? Come
on now, you're pulling my leg.
dave
WORST in US history. In the past I would've agreed with you to "roll with
it", but the cost is too horrendous with Bush. You or I are more
Presidential than Bush.
dave
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
We can recover if he only has one term, but it will take a generation at
least.
George Washington Hayduke
>"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
>news:10iuqc9...@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>We went a different direction finally. Yes it was hard,
>>>but we needed to get off the path we were on.
>> Yeah, peace and Democracy and our Constitution and Bill of Rights
>> were getting old.
>I believe you know damn well that wasn't the "path" I was referring to.
This fascist regime's atrocities against America and the rest of
the world is the only relevant path that this country needs to put
an end to.
Feel free to make light of this fascism, sure, but wouldn't you feel
better living in Nazi Germany, buddy?
George Washington Hayduke
>"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
>news:10iuqe2...@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>>news:FfednfjmfNG...@gbronline.com...
>>>> Poor point. Bush has taken the Gold medal for slime, sleaze and
>>>> distortion
>>>> in campaign. No other campaign has EVER distorted, twisted, defamed and
>>>> lied as the Bush buddies have.
>>>If you say so.
>> The whole world says so -- as well as the majority of the people of
>> the United States. You're in the vast minority opinion.
>I think this election will prove you wrong.
But then you've already exhibited the quality of your thinking.
gaffo
> August 29, 2004:
> The World Says No to the Bush Agenda
> Massive NYC Protest on the Eve of the Republican National Convention
> Assemble at 10:00AM,
> Seventh Avenue @ 14th Street
> March steps off at noon
>
> Show your support: We need to raise $250,000 to cover the costs of this
> historic protest!
> Join United for Peace and Justice in New York City for a massive,
> not-to-be-missed demonstration on Sunday, August 29th - a curtain raiser for
> the Republican National Convention (RNC), which begins the following day.
>
> Why We Are Marching
> On August 29, We Say No to War, Greed, Hate, and Lies
> We march to promote a new way forward. The disastrous consequences of the
> Bush agenda are most dramatically visible in the ongoing U.S. war in Iraq.
> The first step toward a peaceful and secure planet is a foreign policy
> grounded in human rights, international law, environmental sustainability,
> and respect for the sovereignty of all nations. Democracy begins with an
> absolute commitment to the rights and civil liberties of all, especially
> immigrants and other vulnerable communities. Lasting security rests in
> economic and social justice, in providing jobs, housing, education, health
> care and other essential programs to all. We march for peace, we march for
> justice... Another world is possible!
>
> http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=sub&sub=47
>
>
amen
ABB
--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml
http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)
"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.
If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine
"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.
"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter
"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.
"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister
"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99
"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004
"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.
"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)
"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.
"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04
"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04
"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader
RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?
BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.
RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?
BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04
"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04
"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03
"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03
"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001
"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."
"He threatens not the United States."
"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."
'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001
gaffo
> You are sooooooooo clever. I am absolutely devestated and destroyed.
> You countered my logic with name calling. I guess you win the debate.
> Of course that's how libs always approach an argument they can't win ...
> Divert the focus, change the subject and resort to name calling.
> In the face of that devestating attack I'm left with no choice but to switch
> my preference and support Kerry. So here goes.
>
> Here are my 10 reasons to vote for Kerry:
>
> 1. He's not George Bush - No wait that's not a positive reason.
>
> 2. His record of valor in Viet Nam - No wait, that has been completely refuted.
>
> 3. His record of achievement in the US Senate - No wait, he doesn't have a
> record of achievement in the Senate.
>
> 4. His support for the war against terrorism - No wait, he hasn't helped at all.
>
> 5. His efforts to lower taxes on the middle class - No wait, he's never tried that.
>
> 6. His solid stance on all the issues - No wait, he's "waffled" on every issue.
>
> 7. His openness with his medical and tax records - No wait, he refuses to
> disclose those.
>
> 8.
>
> 9.
>
> 10.
>
> Damn! Let' see, he lacks Jimmy Carter's brains, Bill Clinton's ethics, Al Gore's grip on reality
> and Michael Dukakas' charisma. I can't think of a single good positive reason to vote for him.
>
> C'mon libs. Help out here. Surely there is at least one good positive reason to vote for him ... isn't there?
> =============
> "dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:TP6dnb4UWpo...@gbronline.com...
>
>>You are loco, because you MUST be talking about the poorly educated bush
>>supporters and Rush Limbaughs of the US, in other words Repugs.
>>
>>"El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:10iiokh...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>If all the Kerry supporting protesters would pool their welfare checks and
>>>cut back a little on their narcotic purchases they could raise $5 million.
>>>=========
>>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>
>>news:GOmdnYZOUuR...@gbronline.com...
he ain't Bu$h. good enough.
gaffo
> Mmmhmm... I notice he's not known for his "waffles".
against - then for:
911 commssion
homeland security
federal amendment for gays
nation building
.............need I go on?
> Typical liberal: bin Laden family MUST be a brutish evil group! Nevermind
> the fact that Osama's brother was a well-respected young man in America
> before his death. Nevermind the fact that the entire bin Laden family has
> denounced Osama's actions and expressed their disappointment in his chosen
> path (WELL BEFORE 9/11, I might add).
you are pathetic to not question their association with Bu$h and the
security laps this represents. fortunately most Americans are smarter
than you.
>
> Wow. According to YOUR logic, if one of your kids goes ballistic YOU are
> just as guilty as the rogue sheep. It's exactly this [lack of] logic...this
> utter CONTEMPT for the truth...this acting on pure emotion that pushed me
> right out of the Democrat party and into the opposite camp.
>
> Good job! Keep representing!
you wouldn't know Truth if it walked up and bit you on your ass - but
you sure love to suck up the lies don't ya?
El Loco
Since when are a bunch of unwashed, smelly, America hating, retarded, retro Hippies "The world"?
If all you deadbeats would just pool your welfare checks and forgo the drug purchases for a
week you could have millions to spend on convention attendance. Oh, I forgot, the drugs are
the main reason you brain-dead hippie wannabes get together anyway. Never mind.
============
"gaffo" <ga...@usenet.net> wrote in message news:mf3Yc.14523$5e3...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
Aegis
What can be more distorted than spliced audio and video to make it look like
you said something opposite what you actually said?
Aegis
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
>>news:10iuqe2...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:FfednfjmfNG...@gbronline.com...
>>>>> Poor point. Bush has taken the Gold medal for slime, sleaze and
>>>>> distortion
>>>>> in campaign. No other campaign has EVER distorted, twisted, defamed
>>>>> and
>>>>> lied as the Bush buddies have.
>>>>If you say so.
>>> The whole world says so -- as well as the majority of the people of
>>> the United States. You're in the vast minority opinion.
>>I think this election will prove you wrong.
>
> But then you've already exhibited the quality of your thinking.
>
And when I'm proved correct, what then?
Will that mean I'm a genius? I think not.
"Quality of your thinking" That's just funny.
Aegis
1. Learn what a Democratic Republic is and how it functions.
2. Realize that America is a Democratic Republic (some would argue that it's
a Constitutional Republic). It is not, however, a Democracy and never has
been or was intended to be.
3. Learn about the electoral college. THAT is what determines who will be
President. It wasn't a "selection", it was an election; just as all
elections have been since George Washington.
Aegis
While Bush was missing his roll call in Alabama, he was helping in a
campaign. Well documented. This was because of his interest in public
political service.
> Bush has tremendous political connections since his
> father was a President, unlike John Kerry, who, as I said above, had a
> father who was only in public service rather than politics.
Um.. We ARE talking about way back when the two started their pursuits of
public political service. At that time, Bush Sr. had not yet become a
President or Vice-President.
> When Kerry went
> into politics, some of the motivation had to be undoing the damage of
> Vietnam and the Nixonians.
Kerry himself notes that he had political aspirations before he went to
Vietnam.
>
> Coast Guard here vs. "Coast Guard" in Vietnam - which would you prefer?
> Come
> on now, you're pulling my leg.
>
I'm not. Swiftboats had a different duty prior to Kerry's assignment to
them. I won't say they NEVER saw enemy fire, but they damn sure weren't
patrolling the rivers of the in-country. They were in much safer zones
further from the front lines.
As to your question... Coast Guard here vs. Coast Guard type duties in
Vietnam? You are aware that the Coast Guard became part of the Navy (control
transferred from the DOT to DOD) in times of war, right? This only changed
very recently (Coast Guard is now under DHS instead of DOT and may no longer
be transferable to the Navy). When I was in Navy A-school and C-schools, we
trained with Coasties.
Aegis
"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"George Washington Hayduke" <Hay...@AWOLBush.com> wrote in message
>>news:10iuqc9...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "Aegis" <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>We went a different direction finally. Yes it was hard,
>>>>but we needed to get off the path we were on.
>>> Yeah, peace and Democracy and our Constitution and Bill of Rights
>>> were getting old.
>
>>I believe you know damn well that wasn't the "path" I was referring to.
>
> the world is the only relevant path that this country needs to put
> an end to.
>
> Feel free to make light of this fascism, sure, but wouldn't you feel
> better living in Nazi Germany, buddy?
>
Pull your head out of your ass. I never "made light" of Fascism... I just
don't see the Bush administration as Fascist.
dave
dave
The electoral college has been following the overall votes in most states
for some time. Our counts reached the point of travesty in 2000.
dave
There's a HELL of difference between Kerry's respectable motivation and
Bush's TOTALLY self-serving motivations, no matter how you want to
rearrange, or slice it. None of us are perfect. There will always be
controversy over things in the past particularly with hidden documents such
as the Bush record. Bush is the LEAST deserving, LEAST direct and honest,
LEAST talented, LEAST capable President we've seen over the past 70 years or
more.
dave
"El Loco" <el_lo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10j1o40...@corp.supernews.com...
Aegis
Which Bush ad, specifically?
Aegis
respectable motivation? He tried not to get shot.
> Bush's TOTALLY self-serving motivations, no matter how you want to
self-serving motivations? He tried not to get shot.
> rearrange, or slice it. None of us are perfect. There will always be
> controversy over things in the past particularly with hidden documents
> such
> as the Bush record. Bush is the LEAST deserving, LEAST direct and honest,
> LEAST talented, LEAST capable President we've seen over the past 70 years
> or
> more.
>
>
I wonder if I were to run for President in the future if you guys would be
berating me because I chose the Navy instead of the Army and didn't have to
actually fight on the sands of Iraq... Instead we were "safe" in the Gulf. I
should be whipped and beat because of my self-serving motivations!
Aegis
with the trend-thinking of the "World". In fact you do not represent "The
World", should not be speaking for "The World", and may not be as inline
with "The World" as you think you are.
"dave" <da...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
news:DZCdneG2X7L...@gbronline.com...