>>> Its not exactly a science in itself, its more like an ongoing >>> investigation, but it has elements of science like advanced >>> technologies, propulsion, space travel, life on other planets, etc.
>> And what insights into advanced propulsion systems has ufo >> research given us to date?
>> (awkward silence)
> Many. I have also seen several patents.
Hahahahaha! Nice duck and cover there Andy.
'Many' LOL !!
> Scientologists are only into ripping people off.
And Hoagland isn't? Your religous fervor has blinded you.
>> Funny how you defending Hoagland is similar to >> Tom Cruise defending L. Ron Hubbard.
>> Coincidence?
> Hubbard was actually straight out crazy.
My irony meter just shit the bed..........
> Actually I have studied the principles of Dianetics and found some very > interesting things, but I'm not going to say what they are.
Of COURSE you did! It's all part of your religion.
~ Ghosts, ufo's and other bullshit is the new religion of the millenium
>>>> Its not exactly a science in itself, its more like an ongoing >>>> investigation, but it has elements of science like advanced >>>> technologies, propulsion, space travel, life on other planets, etc.
>>> And what insights into advanced propulsion systems has ufo >>> research given us to date?
>>> (awkward silence)
>> Many. I have also seen several patents.
> Hahahahaha! Nice duck and cover there Andy.
> 'Many' LOL !!
What duck and cover? Its the truth. Check out my claim any time. But of course because you like study and research about as much as cats likes swimming pools you wouldn't know anything about this sort of thing.
>> Scientologists are only into ripping people off.
> And Hoagland isn't? Your religous fervor has blinded you.
Is Hoagland a millionaire? No. Are his fans satisfied? Yes. It is a fact that ufologists make relatively little on sales of book and videos etc. So no, they don't do it for money, like many ignorant loudmouths like to trumpet.
>>> Funny how you defending Hoagland is similar to >>> Tom Cruise defending L. Ron Hubbard.
>>> Coincidence?
>> Hubbard was actually straight out crazy.
> My irony meter just shit the bed..........
Your opinion of who's crazy is worth zilch.
>> Actually I have studied the principles of Dianetics and found some >> very interesting things, but I'm not going to say what they are.
> Of COURSE you did! It's all part of your religion.
Your opinion of what's a religion is worth zilch.
> ~ > Ghosts, ufo's and other bullshit is the new religion of the millenium
You forgot to spell check the word millennium.
-- If you are a hard skeptic then you haven't researched or questioned enough. If you believe something too much then you have the same problem.
<scie...@zzz.com> wrote: > UFO Debunkers: A Dangerous "Cult" or Super Patriots?/ The History of > UFO Debunking!
> The standing joke among UFO circles is for every 200 UFO > sightings, the Air Force can explain away 201. The possibility that > our Government might withhold or distort information about UFOs might > seem farfetched, until you read the mountains of evidence compiled > from the Government's own files. Evidence that strongly suggests a > cover-up. The U.S. Military first started seeing UFOs in World War > II, pilots called them "Foo Fighters." We thought they were a German > secret weapon, the German's thought they were ours. An explosion of > civilian sightings in 1947 caught the military by surprise. Top > secret investigations were begun. A joint study by the FBI and Army > concluded, "The flying saucer situation is not all imaginary, > something is really flying around." That report was kept secret until > 1976.
> Most early UFO sightings were made by eyewitnesses and not > radar. In New Mexico, over a two year period, dozens of people > reported seeing green fire-balls over sensitive military > installations. But when radar and cameras were dispatched to those > installations, the fire-balls mysteriously shifted someplace else. A > 1949 study by scientists at Los Alamos Lab stated, "The fireballs > deserve serious consideration.".
> Some have suggested that the saucer craze of the 1940's and > 1950's was a by-product of Cold War tensions and fears. Both the U.S. > and the U.S.S.R. conducted secret studies to find out if the other > side was behind the UFOs, and both concluded early on that the > capabilities of the flying discs seemed beyond human technology. This > secret report done in 1948 by the Air Force and Naval Intelligence is > among the most fascinating of the UFO documents ever to surface > because it wasn't suppose to exist. A confidential memo at the end of > the report ordered that all copies should be destroyed. But one copy > survived and was finally pried out of the Pentagon in 1985. It's a > study of more than 200 of the earliest UFO sightings, including one > that occurred on June, 1947, near Lake Mead. The report notes that an > Air Force pilot saw a formation of six UFOs, and the UFOs were some > type of flying craft, not weather balloons or hallucinations. The > report made note of the fact that more than a few sighting reports > were made by experienced personnel, and that the origin of flying > saucers was not ascertainable.
> The Cold War with the Soviets and Communist countries was heating up. > Strange craft were reported all over our skies, and the news media was > critical of government's explanations. Many people thought the craft > belonged to the Soviet Union or perhaps aliens bent on invasion. There > was fear the Soviets could use UFO propaganda to discredit the US > government. There was genuine concern that a national panic could > occur. Whether UFOs were real or not, the situation made the president > nervous and made the military and the various intelligence agencies > look bad. Plenty of good reports were trickling out that a substantial > number of military aircraft were crashing. Stories started to leak out > that these aircraft were crashing while chasing UFOs. The crashes were > explained as training accidents and mechanical failures, but the news > media was starting to tie the two types of reports together.
> The over-all effort to study saucers was called "Project Sign," > and the headquarters was located at Wright Field in Ohio. In 1949, > Sign personnel wrote a top-secret report, which concluded that, "UFOs > were extra-terrestrial craft." When the report made it to the desk of > the Chief of Staff General Hoyt Vandeberg, he rejected it and ordered > all copies burned. This rejection from the top was in the view of > many, the death knell for any objective study of UFOs. A few weeks > later Project Sign produced another final report stating that it's > findings were "inconclusive." That report was accepted and soon after > Project Sign became Project Grudge. Grudge evaluated reports on the > premise that UFOs could not exist. According to a later report by the > Library of Congress, it was the job of Grudge to explain them all. > Despite this slant, 23% of Grudge cases remained a mystery. Grudge > staffers decided these cases were physiologically motivated, the first > official declaration that people who see UFOs are crazy.
> In 1952, there were more sightings than the five previous years > combined, including the two infamous Washington D.C. incidents. Yet > another study was launched, Project Bluebook. Bluebook today is > notorious in UFO circles as a whitewash. There is considerable > evidence the project was far from objective. The man appointed to > head Bluebook, Captain Edward Ruppelt, said he was told in the very > beginning that the 'powers that be' were anti-flying-saucer and to > stay in favor, "it behooves one to follow suit." Ruppelt later > resigned from the military and wrote a book about what he says was the > Bluebook cover-up and the reality of flying saucers. The continued > increase of UFO sightings was a source of great concern for the CIA > and a new strategy was born: "UFO DEBUNKING."
> A group of CIA-connected scientists was assembled in secret to > evaluate UFOs. CIA documents reveal that five members of the > Scientific Advisory Panel, who were all well-known skeptics, were > given several poor UFO cases to examine and came to the conclusion > that "there was no evidence of a direct threat to national security in > the objects sighted. Flying saucer reports were overloading emergency > reporting channels with false information, clogging up communication > lines, causing alarm, and realistically even if they were real there > was little we could do about them." Furthermore, the government was > losing the confidence of the people. Our science and aircraft seemed > to be confronted by far superior technology.
> The "Robertson Panel" spent all of twelve hours in a round-table > discussion, analyzing only about a handful of UFO cases. The Panel > concluded that, "UFOs are not a threat to national security...but > continued reporting of UFOs is a threat." Their recommendation: The > Government should take immediate steps to strip UFOs of their "aura of > mystery," through a program of public education. The final report > even used the term, "DEBUNKING."
> The Robertson Panel discussions and recommendations centered around > the main problem of eradicating belief in these unidentified flying > objects. Ways of using the news media and movies to discredit UFOs > were discussed and placed into action. This resulted in the reduction > of public interest around the reality of flying saucers, which even > today still evokes a strong psychological reaction. Such propaganda > techniques included addressing actual UFO cases, which might have been > puzzling at first but later explained away as natural phenomenon.
> The panel also discussed various insidious methods that were often > implemented to execute this debunking program. It was felt strongly > that psychologists familiar with mass psychology should be called in > as advisers to assist with the nature and extent of this program. > These national programs resulted in the National Policy. The end > result was to debunk any valid sighting, even if it resulted in the > embarrassment of pilots and/or government employees. UFO reports were > denied, debunked and those who saw them were soundly and mercilessly > ridiculed.
> Timothy Good in his book Above Top Secret writes: Another sinister > recommendation of the panel was that civilian UFO groups should be > watched "because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking > if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility > and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be > kept in mind." The panel concluded that "the continued emphasis on the > reporting these phenomena does, in these parlous times, result in a > threat to the orderly functioning of the protective organs of the body > politic," and recommended:
> a. That the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip > the Unidentified Flying Objects of the special status they have been > given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired.
> b. That the national security agencies institute policies on > intelligence, training, and public education designed to prepare the > material defenses and the morale of the country to recognize most > promptly and to react most effectively to true indications of hostile > intent or action.
> Shortly thereafter every effort of the government went into debunking > UFOs even if it would mean embarrassing its own people. It soon became > known the best way to destroy your military career was to report a > UFO. Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, Chief of the Aerial Phenomena Branch > at the Air Technical Intelligence Center, said that the CIA ordered > the Air Force to debunk sightings and debunk witnesses. "We're > ordered to hide sightings when possible," he told Major Keyhole, "but > if a strong report does get out we have to publish a fast explanation-- > make up something to kill the report in a hurry, and also ridicule the > witness, especially if we can't figure out a plausible answer, even if > we have to discredit our own pilots."
> The debunking included spying on UFO witnesses and the infiltration of > UFO organizations by the CIA and FBI. Various effective civilian UFO > organizations have been rendered impotent, and sometimes inactive, > after ex-CIA members have joined their board of directors, the best > example being the ousting of Major Donald Keyhoe from NICAP
On Oct 29, 3:26 pm, "Andrew W" <removethis_ajwer...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> HVAC wrote: > > What a waste of hard drive space. > > I save that valuable space for important > > things..... Like porn.
> Typical profane remark by a vacant mind.
Shame on you! Why are you wasting any time on nutcase like HVAC. I can't figure if he is trying to be Beavis or Butthead, but it is certain that next to name calling in "borderland" groups his next favorite pastime is "frog baseball". Please do not feed the trolls.
<scie...@zzz.com> wrote: > UFO Debunkers: A Dangerous "Cult" or Super Patriots?/ The History of > UFO Debunking!
> The standing joke among UFO circles is for every 200 UFO > sightings, the Air Force can explain away 201. The possibility that > our Government might withhold or distort information about UFOs might > seem farfetched, until you read the mountains of evidence compiled > from the Government's own files. Evidence that strongly suggests a > cover-up. The U.S. Military first started seeing UFOs in World War > II, pilots called them "Foo Fighters." We thought they were a German > secret weapon, the German's thought they were ours. An explosion of > civilian sightings in 1947 caught the military by surprise. Top > secret investigations were begun. A joint study by the FBI and Army > concluded, "The flying saucer situation is not all imaginary, > something is really flying around." That report was kept secret until > 1976.
> Most early UFO sightings were made by eyewitnesses and not > radar. In New Mexico, over a two year period, dozens of people > reported seeing green fire-balls over sensitive military > installations. But when radar and cameras were dispatched to those > installations, the fire-balls mysteriously shifted someplace else. A > 1949 study by scientists at Los Alamos Lab stated, "The fireballs > deserve serious consideration.".
> Some have suggested that the saucer craze of the 1940's and > 1950's was a by-product of Cold War tensions and fears. Both the U.S. > and the U.S.S.R. conducted secret studies to find out if the other > side was behind the UFOs, and both concluded early on that the > capabilities of the flying discs seemed beyond human technology. This > secret report done in 1948 by the Air Force and Naval Intelligence is > among the most fascinating of the UFO documents ever to surface > because it wasn't suppose to exist. A confidential memo at the end of > the report ordered that all copies should be destroyed. But one copy > survived and was finally pried out of the Pentagon in 1985. It's a > study of more than 200 of the earliest UFO sightings, including one > that occurred on June, 1947, near Lake Mead. The report notes that an > Air Force pilot saw a formation of six UFOs, and the UFOs were some > type of flying craft, not weather balloons or hallucinations. The > report made note of the fact that more than a few sighting reports > were made by experienced personnel, and that the origin of flying > saucers was not ascertainable.
> The Cold War with the Soviets and Communist countries was heating up. > Strange craft were reported all over our skies, and the news media was > critical of government's explanations. Many people thought the craft > belonged to the Soviet Union or perhaps aliens bent on invasion. There > was fear the Soviets could use UFO propaganda to discredit the US > government. There was genuine concern that a national panic could > occur. Whether UFOs were real or not, the situation made the president > nervous and made the military and the various intelligence agencies > look bad. Plenty of good reports were trickling out that a substantial > number of military aircraft were crashing. Stories started to leak out > that these aircraft were crashing while chasing UFOs. The crashes were > explained as training accidents and mechanical failures, but the news > media was starting to tie the two types of reports together.
> The over-all effort to study saucers was called "Project Sign," > and the headquarters was located at Wright Field in Ohio. In 1949, > Sign personnel wrote a top-secret report, which concluded that, "UFOs > were extra-terrestrial craft." When the report made it to the desk of > the Chief of Staff General Hoyt Vandeberg, he rejected it and ordered > all copies burned. This rejection from the top was in the view of > many, the death knell for any objective study of UFOs. A few weeks > later Project Sign produced another final report stating that it's > findings were "inconclusive." That report was accepted and soon after > Project Sign became Project Grudge. Grudge evaluated reports on the > premise that UFOs could not exist. According to a later report by the > Library of Congress, it was the job of Grudge to explain them all. > Despite this slant, 23% of Grudge cases remained a mystery. Grudge > staffers decided these cases were physiologically motivated, the first > official declaration that people who see UFOs are crazy.
> In 1952, there were more sightings than the five previous years > combined, including the two infamous Washington D.C. incidents. Yet > another study was launched, Project Bluebook. Bluebook today is > notorious in UFO circles as a whitewash. There is considerable > evidence the project was far from objective. The man appointed to > head Bluebook, Captain Edward Ruppelt, said he was told in the very > beginning that the 'powers that be' were anti-flying-saucer and to > stay in favor, "it behooves one to follow suit." Ruppelt later > resigned from the military and wrote a book about what he says was the > Bluebook cover-up and the reality of flying saucers. The continued > increase of UFO sightings was a source of great concern for the CIA > and a new strategy was born: "UFO DEBUNKING."
> A group of CIA-connected scientists was assembled in secret to > evaluate UFOs. CIA documents reveal that five members of the > Scientific Advisory Panel, who were all well-known skeptics, were > given several poor UFO cases to examine and came to the conclusion > that "there was no evidence of a direct threat to national security in > the objects sighted. Flying saucer reports were overloading emergency > reporting channels with false information, clogging up communication > lines, causing alarm, and realistically even if they were real there > was little we could do about them." Furthermore, the government was > losing the confidence of the people. Our science and aircraft seemed > to be confronted by far superior technology.
> The "Robertson Panel" spent all of twelve hours in a round-table > discussion, analyzing only about a handful of UFO cases. The Panel > concluded that, "UFOs are not a threat to national security...but > continued reporting of UFOs is a threat." Their recommendation: The > Government should take immediate steps to strip UFOs of their "aura of > mystery," through a program of public education. The final report > even used the term, "DEBUNKING."
> The Robertson Panel discussions and recommendations centered around > the main problem of eradicating belief in these unidentified flying > objects. Ways of using the news media and movies to discredit UFOs > were discussed and placed into action. This resulted in the reduction > of public interest around the reality of flying saucers, which even > today still evokes a strong psychological reaction. Such propaganda > techniques included addressing actual UFO cases, which might have been > puzzling at first but later explained away as natural phenomenon.
> The panel also discussed various insidious methods that were often > implemented to execute this debunking program. It was felt strongly > that psychologists familiar with mass psychology should be called in > as advisers to assist with the nature and extent of this program. > These national programs resulted in the National Policy. The end > result was to debunk any valid sighting, even if it resulted in the > embarrassment of pilots and/or government employees. UFO reports were > denied, debunked and those who saw them were soundly and mercilessly > ridiculed.
> Timothy Good in his book Above Top Secret writes: Another sinister > recommendation of the panel was that civilian UFO groups should be > watched "because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking > if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility > and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be > kept in mind." The panel concluded that "the continued emphasis on the > reporting these phenomena does, in these parlous times, result in a > threat to the orderly functioning of the protective organs of the body > politic," and recommended:
> a. That the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip > the Unidentified Flying Objects of the special status they have been > given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired.
> b. That the national security agencies institute policies on > intelligence, training, and public education designed to prepare the > material defenses and the morale of the country to recognize most > promptly and to react most effectively to true indications of hostile > intent or action.
> Shortly thereafter every effort of the government went into debunking > UFOs even if it would mean embarrassing its own people. It soon became > known the best way to destroy your military career was to report a > UFO. Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, Chief of the Aerial Phenomena Branch > at the Air Technical Intelligence Center, said that the CIA ordered > the Air Force to debunk sightings and debunk witnesses. "We're > ordered to hide sightings when possible," he told Major Keyhole, "but > if a strong report does get out we have to publish a fast explanation-- > make up something to kill the report in a hurry, and also ridicule the > witness, especially if we can't figure out a plausible answer, even if > we have to discredit our own pilots."
> The debunking included spying on UFO witnesses and the infiltration of > UFO organizations by the CIA and FBI. Various effective civilian UFO > organizations have been rendered impotent, and sometimes inactive, > after ex-CIA members have joined their board of directors, the best > example being the ousting of Major Donald Keyhoe from NICAP
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