HAS ATHEISM IMPROVED YOUR LIFE?
Clayton PhuQ
believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
are a force to be acknowleged.
I'll start the ball rolling.
My life was Improved!
Vic Sagerquist
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
>
>
>
My life was improved!
I'd been a skeptic most of my life, but I feel as though a great weight had
been lifted from my shoulders when I finally realized religion was bull.
Suddenly realizing I was not nor had ever been a sinner, I have been happy
ever since.
Vic Sagerquist
aa # 2011
Laura
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Absolutely ... no longer susceptible to magical scams, god scams, preachers
begging for money.
Not to mention the sense of total freedom to think and feel and be whatever
I choose to be.
Thank no god ... my life was and is improved.
Michelle Malkin
As far as keeping religion out of it, YES! When I see the kind of
lives most very religious people lead - lack of education, no desire
to read anything that might get their minds working, fear of asking
questions, only wanting to be around other people who think exactly
as they do, bigotry, sexism.
If I belonged to one of the wackier theist religions - like the ones
that don't believe in blood transfusions or hospitals or medical
science at all, I'd have died before I was 30.
If I'd done what my parents wanted and married my college boyfriend,
I'd have been divorced by the age of 25, possibly with one or two
kids. I refused to be a Jewish American Princess. That upset my mother
no end. She never knew I was an atheist since the age of 12.
Thanks to not being tied down by the stricter versions of religion, I
was able to enter the world of science fiction fandom and make many
friends, as well as reading many enjoyable and educational books.
Thanks to being an atheist, I found this newsgroup and made many more
friends and learned more than I ever would have with a full college
education.
When told that something is 'evil', I ask why and seek out the answer
on my own. I don't live in fear of being 'found out' as being
open-minded. I don't live in fear of going to 'hell'.
Without religion, I am alive and happily unmarried. The hell with
religion. My life is much better without religion.
Improved? Yes, with religion, even the mild form of Judaism practiced
by my family, my life would have been hell.
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
aa atheist list #1 ULC list #3 SMASH member
High Priestess Bastet of the non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC Bible Thumper Thumper BAAWA Knight Who Says SPONG!
makym# SPONG!!
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com/
http://www.geocities.com/hypatiab7/
http://www.thehungersite.com/
http://bigcats.care2.com/
http://ecologyfund.com/
Malum Regnat
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
I have found the truth and the truth has set me free (of superstition). Of
course my rejection of the big 'sky daddy' has improved my life.
--
Carpe noctem.
Reliquenda est omnis spes vobis qui intratis.
Estne Deus? Non quare estne Sanctus Nicolaus?
---
Malum Regnat-
---
A.A, # 2005
BAAWA- Chronicler of all things that never happened.
---
Kerry
Has my life improved? Yes, yes, and in case it seems I'm being lukewarm.. YES.
Mind you, the question of what makes everything tick has never left me, but
being outside of the direct influence of the religion hucksters and their
commercial god bullshit allows me to read and consider anything and everything
I want. Reading the newsgroups now for coming up on 7 years has never brought
any convincing information from any theist yet about their god of Abraham, nor
anything of any other gods either.
Kerry
aa #1773
John Kelley
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
My life definitely changed for the better. It was like a light
switching on...
John Kelley - a.a.# 1985 - (fka Darwin)
"Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so,
it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as
it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -Lewis Carroll
Adam Marczyk
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Damned straight my life was improved by becoming an atheist. Not only is
seeing clearly at last a relief in and of itself, it's taught me a valuable
lesson about being skeptical of all unsubstantiated claims. When I was much
younger, I had a book called "The Mysterious World" by new-age crackpot and
part-time creationist Francis Hitching, which contained about as much
pseudoscience as you'd expect - Velikovsky, ESP, UFOs, spontaneous human
combustion, and so on - and I swallowed it all, not having learned the
difference between real science and fakery yet. Thank the non-existent God I
ended up on a path of rationality rather than joining these people.
--
a.a. #2001
"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."
Director, EAC Black Monolith Division - "My God, it's full of stars"
Operative: EAC Electronic Warfare Division
EAC Subversive Fiction Division
http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843
John Hattan
My life was improved. Dumping delusional beliefs in magical sky-daddies
was one of the smartest things I ever did, and doing so helped me
greatly.
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
jo...@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
Frank Wustner
> My life was Improved!
Unfortunately, I can not chime in on this. Since I was never not an
atheist, I can not honestly say that it has improved my life any.
But I'm certain it would have if I had ever been a theist. Does that
count?
--
The Deadly Nightshade
http://deadly_nightshade.tripod.com/
http://members.tripod.com/~deadly_nightshade/
|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
|"Advice is a form of nostalgia. | Atheist #119 |
|Dispensing it means fishing the | Knight of BAAWA! |
|past from the disposal, wiping it |-----------------------------------|
|off, painting over the ugly parts, | Want to email me? Go to the URL |
|and recycling it for more than | above and email me from there. |
|it's worth." Mary Schmich |-----------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------|
Liz
<3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>, wrote:
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
My life was improved. I quit praying for my life to get better and,
instead, I made it better.
Ãœberwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
Bob Dog
But that's not enough. Theistic liars will claim
(in smarmy voices) "The atheists don't know why
they're happy. Once they realize they're without
*gawd*, they'll be unhappy!"
1. I have more time for productivity and productive
thought since I stopped wasting it on imaginary
demiurges.
2. I stopped having a reason to justify my bigotry.
I no longer have a lie to use to pretend I'm
better than anyone else.
3. I stopped hating *myself*, which started due to
the bigotry of others.
4. I've accepted responsibility for myself and my
actions, something I rationalized away as a kid.
So, definitely there's been an improvement since
accepting the facts of the real world and rejecting
all demonologies.
Bob Dog
Atheist #153
+---------------------------------------------------+
|\Read widely, think deeply, but don't speak lengthy.\
+ +---------------------------------------------------+
\|Religion...when facts and reality aren't enough. |
+---------------------------------------------------+
satyr
Absolutely improved. Sitting in church was an exercise in boredom and
depression. The self-made revelation of atheism at age 11 was like a fog
lifting from my life and I have never had occasion to regret it in the 33 years
since.
Woden
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
My life has improved.
No more worrying about some god looking over my shoulder and checking up on
me.
No more guilt for many innocent pleasures.
No more concern for what happens after death, but rather a greater
willingness and urgency to be a full participant in this life.
Better understanding of the real world uncluttered with ancient superstions
and myths.
No more boring Sunday morning sermons.
Yeah, overall, it has improved.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
Mr. Vega
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:30 +1000, "Clayton PhuQ"
> <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au>,
> <3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>, wrote:
>
> >So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> >atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> >life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> >the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> >of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> >life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> >are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> My life was improved. I quit praying for my life to get better and,
> instead, I made it better.
Same here... I spent over 7 miserable years as a tea-totaling religious
fundy, always praying for God to throw me a crumb...
It was only when I stopped praying, started drinking, and applying myself
to getting what I want that I got a job, house, and everything I could
ever want. Fuck religion for wasting my life.
Jack,
Rev Phylter
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
By 12 I had come to realise the truth and rejected the whole thing. I'm
44 now. Funny thing is, I never spoke about religion to my kids. If you
mention religion to them now, they look sideways at you and laugh at
such a silly notion.
--
Rev Phylter
ULC Ordained Minister
AFJC Denizen Of Darkness (DOD) #44
http://www.rudraigh.com/afjc/home.html
After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash
my
hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Infidel
I've been a skeptic all my life, but afraid to tell anyone for a long
time. As I accepted the (lack of) facts that gods are superstitions,
I became more and more willing to voice it. I became more and more
comfortable with atheism. Then I started reading works on the subject
and after actually reading some of the bible, I have concluded that
there is no proof of the existence of the Christian God, Jesus, or any
other god. Now, I get into people's faces with it.
Has life improved? Yes. I'm standing on more solid ground than most
of the other people I encounter. I seem to know their bible better
than they do and I find that funny.
I no longer have the guilt trip of a god watching all the time.
I no longer have the substitutionary forgiveness of the death of Jesus
paying for my mistakes: I am responsible, and my decisions reflect
it.
I no longer have the intolerance of other religions or cultures.
I no longer deprave myself of earthly pleasures that are legal, yet
not allowed by religion.
I no longer have a fear of eternal punishments.
I am no longer at danger of being controlled by fundamentalists.
I have dignity without interference from a religion.
I san separate truth from fantasy.
I would like to be able to debate the religions better, though. In
the newsgroups, I can do well, but in conservations, I don't do as
well. I can't pull the info as fast on the fly. I have room for
improvement.
Carl Sagerquist AKA
Infidel
AA #2012
Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith,
then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits.
johac
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Definitely! Atheism let me cast of the chains of religion and see the world
as it really is. It has helped me in my understanding of the physical
universe. It has helped me in my career. As a scientist, I know where to
look for and how to find answers. It's not in a 2500 year old book. It has
helped me be a better person. I make moral decisions based on human reason,
not on what some believe that an invisible sky-being wants me to do.
Lastly, atheism has helped me in my private life. I can sleep in Sunday
mornings - Yay!
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910).
Infidel
<phylter@*mailandnews.com> wrote:
>By 12 I had come to realise the truth and rejected the whole thing. I'm
>44 now. Funny thing is, I never spoke about religion to my kids. If you
>mention religion to them now, they look sideways at you and laugh at
>such a silly notion.
Have you met Dan Barker of the FFRF? He's also a minister turned
atheist.
Its lucky for your kids that they didn't get caught by a religion,
since you never spoke of religion. A Mormon brother-in-law tried to
proselytize my wife and daughter behind my back. I used the
experience to teach my daughter about religions and how wrong and
powerful they are. A friend asked me "Can't your daughter figure that
out for herself?" I said "At 11? I doubt it. At 11, she's not smart
enough to evaluate, not educated on religion enough to make a sound
decision, too subordinate to outwardly object to it, and not wise
enough to choose a path that's differs from the norm." So I teach her
to avoid them all, and I teach her why. I even read to her from the
bible. A parent's job is to protect their children. Knowledge is
power. Now, she protects herself from the evangelists. She is also
an Infidel and I'm proud of her.
Muddy Boggs
"johac" <jha...@remove.ixpres.com> wrote
>
> ... I can sleep in Sunday
> mornings - Yay!
> --
All Sunday morning in bed with coffee and the papers. That's what would have
definitely drawn me in, if I hadn't always been a non-believer in things
imaginary. (Family of non-believers. Lucky me.)
Denis Loubet
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Yes, my life has improved by being an atheist.
Rationality is it's own reward.
Denis Loubet
dlo...@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Rev Phylter
"Infidel" <pi...@ntsworld.com> wrote in message
news:kko95uohq6kt7jhss...@4ax.com...<snipped>
:What causes thunder mommy?"
"Why that's God bashing the clouds together, darling"
I remember asking my mother that question and the answer didn't sit with
me.
I think that got the ball rolling, it *was* a while ago now <g>
boo
news:53r95u46cppnlq4g9...@4ax.com:
Atheism improved my life BECAUSE.....when I became a vegetarian at the
age of 12 I spent alot of time wondering how the "God" my mother taught
me about could allow such suffering to continue upon all the other species
of the earth. My father was atheist, although he did like to study
religions around the world. Once I started realizing that there is no God I
could more easily accept the suffering going on at the hands of humans. I
really hated thinking there was someone or something "up there" that could
stop it but wouldn't.
boo
--
All things that exist in time shall pass away, but we shall not pass
away. -James C. Gathings-
DDDartist
Hash: SHA1
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Nope! I can't really say that being an atheist has improved my life
in any
way. Sorry, I wish I could jump on the bandwagon, but it wouldn't be
the
truth. And, I'm not playing "devil's advocate", either.
Yes, I revel in my ability to accept reason over superstition. Yes, I
feel a
certain sense of liberation from dogma. But, I also feel the weight
of my
mortality *much* more intensely. I *wish* I could put aside my
intellect and
be content to believe in the realm of the sky-pixie. But I can't. I
don't
think religiots understand how much courage is required to go through
life
*knowing* that this is all there is, and *knowing* that the majority
of the
people around you are insane because they are religiots.
(I really appreciate this NG, but ya'll are gonna get *so* tired of
me
beating the same dead horse! I offer apologies in advance.)
Regards,
DDDArtist
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blazingmuse
is principally a matter of intellectual speculation, but on the
balance of likelihood I'd say it has improved my lot in life.
FreedomFyghter
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
YES!! My life has been improved in every way!
My story is probably like most others. I grew up christian, forced to go to
Sunday brainwashing sessions from the age of six months, afraid to live and
afraid not to. When I decided to research religion, I found the only
Atheistic one in existence, Buddhism, and I've hidden behind that word for
too many years. Now that I'm a Proud American Atheist, I'm FREE. I don't
have to answer to some vague sky-daddy that viciously punishes for the
tiniest mistake and punishes even more viciously for the greatest good. I'm
free to believe what I have researched and found to be true, I'm free to
live and love and be. Freedom for all....
FreedomFyghter ---}>
~~Religion is not a choice. No one would consciously choose shackles over
freedom.~~
Mark Whickman
Clayton PhuQ <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
>
>
>
My life was improved as I don't have to feel guilty for no reason now.
Laura
http://www.aztriad.com/fear.html
This link is to a cartoon that directly concerns your fears, versus the
fears that
you would have if you were a believer. If your life has not been improved
by atheism, perhaps you can say, "It is less terrible because of being an
atheist."
GriN!
Laura
George Ricker
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
So was mine.
--
George Ricker
"Goddidit" is not an answer. It is a pietistic
method of begging all questions.
Martin Rule
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
>
>
I could throw off the hypocrisy and finally be intellectuallly honest.
Yes - my life has improved.
Martin
aa # 1919
Andrew
hans't deminished my life at all but sometimes I wish I could be blind and
believe in god and the afterlife. Death would be a much less scary concept.
georgann
>> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your life
>> was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with the
>> words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many of
>> us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your life
>> was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we are a
>> force to be acknowleged.
>> I'll start the ball rolling.
>> My life was Improved!
George Ricker:
> So was mine.
georgann:
So was mine. And I'm a fundy. :p
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
Attend church this Sunday for a faith lift!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_IntroII.html
(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด `'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)
Martin Rule
As a supplemental - how can anyone's life _not_ improve when you are freed from
the fear of eternal torment and the guilt of sin?
Martin (Usually J Peasemold-Gruntfuttock)
Chloé
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
My life was improved as I now look at things with more sense and less
superstition and
don't fall for stupid things such as the "supernatural". I get to sleep in
on Sunday
mornings now, and I don't pray for things that I want to happen, I get out
there and do
them myself. It's not like prayer ever did anything, anyway
--
Chloé a.a. #2010
"Thank the Lor -- thank the Lord? That
sounded like a prayer. A prayer.
A prayer in a public school! God has no
place within these walls, just like facts
have no place within organized religion."
-- Superintendent Chalmers, The Simpsons
Mr. Vega
... I
> don't
> think religiots understand how much courage is required to go through
> life
> *knowing* that this is all there is, and *knowing* that the majority
> of the
> people around you are insane because they are religiots.
Don't apologize, you've raised some good points. This's one thing that really
gets me. It's like being surrounded by mental patients all the time. One
minute they're talking normal, the next they're spouting Jesus-related
gobbledygook about salvation and such. It's hard not to be rattled by people
when you don't share their beliefs and are completely surrounded by them.
And you're right about mortality. Every so often, I come to at night with
a sudden shock, realizing that this is my life, and that it will one day
be over, that I'll be in an old age home or hospital bed. Of course, part of
this shock is realizing I wasted a fair portion of my youth (college years) on
religion, and didn't enjoy them. But still, it's hard. It's funny how this
feeling seems to go away when you're awake and focussed on things you're
interested in. (Is this a common experience?)
But I wouldn't trade the intellectual freedom, and consistent platform on which
to experience life for anything. I certainly couldn't go back to the mental
contortions and downright insanity of religion, which wasted so much of my life.
And there's a certain adventurous charm in striking out in unknown waters and
doing something that you KNOW sets you apart from the herd. It's just lonely
out here.
The Ghost In The Machine
In talk.atheism, Clayton PhuQ
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:30 +1000
<3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>:
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
I can't say whether my life has been improved or not by atheism,
but then, I've never been religious, either -- so in a sense I'm
already at what might be called a "zero point". :-)
However, it's definitely a more straightforward position,
especially compared to some of the stranger fundie positions
espoused on these newsgroups.
--
ew...@aimnet.com -- insert random position here
EAC code #191 29d:06h:20m actually running Linux.
We were born naked, but we don't usually die naked. Why?
Angelico
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> tapped on my shoulder
and told me:
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Mine too. Once I realized the Big Voyeur was part of Fairy Land I
started enjoying many normal aspects of my life that were "sinful"
before. Thinking without restraints, for example.
--
Angel Arnal, Valencia, España aa #1443 BAAWA knave aka "Lazarillo"
http://angelico.iespana.es maky m. #(sqrt(5)-1)/2
EAC Chairperson for Bible Translation Mess-up | Official EAC Latin Lover
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Boatwright Award for Creative Scientific Ignorance
> I took 1st year high school algebra, which is all a person needs
> to know in order to prove Einstein and his disciples wrong.
> Robert B. Winn
Rules at http://teleline.terra.es/personal/angelarn/comun/jpbaward.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven Silow
>I want everyone of you to reply
OK, here I go...
>if your life was improved by becoming an atheist.
I can't answer that question, because if I ever *became* an atheist it
was intimately connected to when the entity I refer to as "myself"
came into existence, and I have never left that atheistic "state"
since then. So, to me, it is like trying to answer "did your life
improve by being born?".
However, I'm glad (very glad, actually!) that I never was fooled into
some system of irrational beleif. That would certainly have been a
severe blow to the quality of my intellectual life.
Sven
Tom
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Tom: When I was a young boy I spent much of my time worrying because my
father was not a Christian and was, therefore, going to burn in hell. It
kept me in a constant state of turmoil. Now that I look back on those days
it reminds me of why I despise these "holier-than-thou" religious bastards.
My peace of mind since becoming an atheist is a treasure. No more false
fears, relief from those worries. It is unbelievable how all of these false
worries burden your mind. I enjoy the additional free time I have(especially
Sunday mornings) and the additional money, saved from my tithing days.
Life is a joy, now that I can concentrate on it and not worry about getting
to heaven :-).
quibbler
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
First off, of course my life was improved, in lots of ways. It would
certainly be weird if a person chose to become an atheist in order to
have a more miserable life, especially if one does not believe in an
after life. Of course, it is possible that atheism could have
unintended negative consequences. But most of these are the result of
theists actively discriminating against atheists. However, on the
whole, I would not say that theistic discrimination is a major factor
in my life, since I live in a country which is for the most part
secular (despite Bush, Ashcroft, et al).
One of the most obvious ways my life was improved was not having to go
to church on Sunday and other religious "holidays". I can just kick
back and browse the internet, or get some useful work done, without
having to listen to some clueless priest read nonsensical scriptures
and spout platitudes which he expects me to pay him for via a cash
donation.
Besides that, I would say that atheism is a much more psychologically
healthy way to live. When I watch a "scary" movie about the
supernatural, I don't come away thinking, "what if ghosts and demons
and vampires are real?" I find that atheism trains the mind to be
less gullible in general, but usually does not extend to the point of
cynicism. I think that half the battle in life (perhaps more than
half actually) is weeding out the junk data that constantly bombards a
person in daily life. Atheism helps do this and theism does not.
Of course there is a lot more stuff, but since the thread didn't ask
for details, I'll hold off for now...
Cabinger
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
You betcha my life has improved. No guilt and self loathing anymore.
For years, I would backslide and regret, condemning myself over and
over again. Trying to understand the entire Bible as a whole (while
still reconciling doctrinal contradictions) was pure mental mind
fuckerey. No thanks.
-Chris
DarkAngel
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
My life was improved by atheism.
--
a.a. atheist #1152 Anarchy & Peace
"When we have undermined the patriotic lie, we shall
have cleared the path for that great structure wherein
all nationalities shall be united into a universal
brotherhood, -- a truly free society."
- Emma Goldman, "Patriotism: a menace to liberty"
Anarchist FAQ: www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html
DDDartist
Hash: SHA1
"Laura" <gall...@c2i2.com> wrote in message
news:u5agh53...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi DDDartist ...
>
> http://www.aztriad.com/fear.html
>
> This link is to a cartoon that directly concerns your fears, versus
> the fears that
> you would have if you were a believer. If your life has not been
> improved by atheism, perhaps you can say, "It is less terrible
> because of being an atheist."
>
> GriN!
>
> Laura
>
>
Bingo! That's exactly right. Thanks for the link. :^)
Regards,
DDDArtist
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DDDartist
Hash: SHA1
"Mr. Vega" <je...@gtn.net> wrote in message
news:d84848ab.02012...@posting.google.com...
[snip]
I have to say, that you give me hope. I found a few others in the
"Atheism in a nutshell" thread.
A few years ago, I dabbled with a local FFRF group (Freedom From
Religion Foundation). That was the first time I ever tried to seek
out like minds (other than my brother). I was amazed and terribly
discouraged by the experience. There was a community of twenty or
thirty people who professed a desire to be free from religion, but
every single one of them treated me as though I were insane for
having these ideas.
I mean, good grief, what is the use of being free from religion if
you're not going to take the next logical step and erradicate that
which gave rise to religion in the first place?
Once again, thanks for the response.
Regards,
DDDArtist
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jwk
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been
> > improved by
> > atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if
> > your life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do
> > is reply with
> > the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know
> > how many
> > of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know
> > why your
> > life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world
> > know we are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> in any
> way. Sorry, I wish I could jump on the bandwagon, but it wouldn't be
> the
> truth. And, I'm not playing "devil's advocate", either.
>
>
> (I really appreciate this NG, but ya'll are gonna get *so* tired of
> me
> beating the same dead horse! I offer apologies in advance.)
>
> Regards,
> DDDArtist
If honesty is your only shortcoming, we can probably tolerate it.
I can't claim an improved life either. Not since I never really
qualified as a xian. Never went to church. Only went to sunday
school once, at a young age and refused to ever go again. Parents
never bleating on about god or other crap. By the time I learned the
term "atheist" I had been one for quite some time. (I even remember
thinking, at a tender age, how most mysteries I knew of were solved by
scientific processes. Except the mystery of why a husband was
required for a baby. (At a ~very~ tender age.) But I figured this
mystery wasn't enough to credit a god when everything else was
rational. An explaination would come eventually. (And it did, too.))
However, while my life wasn't improved by a ~switch~ to atheism,
obviously I have lived a fuller life than any devout, practicing xian.
Sleeping in on Sundays is only the most obvious advantage. Being
able to think clearly, being able to appreciate women as people, being
able to appreciate cultural differences, etc. None of which atheism
is required for, but all of which xianity tries to stop.
jwk
Nullifidian
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:30 +1000, "Clayton PhuQ"
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned
>what I believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging
>an atheist to a debate but only if he could bring along 100 people
>who's lives where improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to
>the Atheist list as 2000 people who's lives have been improved by
>becoming atheists. He insists that it is just a list and no
>indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been
>improved by atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the
>world know if your life was improved by becoming an atheist. All
>you have to do is reply with the words "Yes" or "My life was
>improved!" and let the theists know how many of us there are. If
>you want to go into details and let them know why your life was
>improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
This is a difficult question to answer, because from the very first
time I started to think about these things I didn't believe in any
gods. Still, when compared to what my life could have been like as a
theist, I consider myself very fortunate indeed.
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--
Nullifidian, a.a. 1774 (remove NO SPAM to e-mail me)
Chris Nelson
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
I'm a lifelong atheist, and I am confident that my life would be far worse
if I became a theist. I love my life and I am glad to be an atheist.
Does that count?
--
Chris
AUDIO VIDEO DISCO - "I hear, I see, I learn"
Michael Derousselle
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
>
My life was improved!
No foolish mental gymnastics, trying to reconcile reality with
Biblical bullshit.
Lots of great entertainment provided by theist antics.
Michael Derousselle
AA #1948
Luis
I was a baptist until I went to college (18 yrs.old). An angry seeker for
the source of spirituality. Rosacrucian, eastern religions, Von Daniken,
etc. I tried everything until I found psycology. My parents are
fundamentalists (very low education). Married for the second time with a
pentecostal that left me (after 14 years of marriage) for a Brazilian 10
years younger.
I am
An accountant (BA Univerity of Puerto Rico)
A photographer (did it professionally part time)
Went into politics in Puerto Rico (run for municipal office)
An Air Force retiree
Two wonderful children. (1. Harvard graduate in genetics and 2.a master in
civil engineer) both agnostics.
A scuba diver (NAUI)
A pilot (powered and gliders)
A world traveler (almost all the Americas)
An avid reader (world literature)
Love music (all kind)
A carpenter (furniture, has sold some)
Auto hypnotist (took psychology in college)
A painter (and love drawing too)
A cyclist (have three bikes)
A master gardener
A cook. french, italian, chineese and caribbean and others.
Pastry cook (Did my daughter wedding cake. autralian fondant with sugar
paste flowers. three tiers) A basic, Fox Pro, assembler, C++ programmer.
Fluent in english, spanish and some portugese. A computer consultant (Worked
for IBM 11 yrs repairing computers as an electronic technitian.
And had a Networks, accounting consulting office for 20 yrs.).
I am 59 years old in good health ( do not smoke or drink excessive alcohol)
I going to start a contruction bussines with my son in PR and building a new
house there.
Starting a new life out of the closet and free!
Thanks god I am an atheist.
Luis R. Ramos
Robibnikoff
>
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
Hmmm....Hard to say as I was born an atheist and have stayed one all of my life
(going on 41 years - blech). However, after hearing stories about people's
religious upbringings, I am very grateful to have been raised without religion.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo and EAC Spellcaster
Delighted Member of SMASH
#1557
Raptor514
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
>
>
As for me, hell yes! No more lunatic fears of death or hell. No more
undeserved guilt. (Now I only feel guilty when I have actual reason to.)
No more feeling that I'm being watched by some magic Sky-Pixie.
No more dissonance between my common sense and my beliefs. No more
rationalizations and mind-warping 'arguments' that destroy my integrity and
dignity as a thinking creature.
I'm not just a believing, mentally-neutered animal now. I'm a rational,
inquiring human being and I'm so glad for it.
There's nothing like integrity.
Raptor514
>
Raptor514
"georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B87AB4AD.71317%chen...@mindspring.com...
> >> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been
improved by
> >> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if
your life
> >> was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
the
> >> words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many of
> >> us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your life
> >> was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
are a
> >> force to be acknowleged.
>
> >> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> >> My life was Improved!
>
> George Ricker:
> > So was mine.
>
> georgann:
> So was mine. And I'm a fundy. :p
And that improved your life? What were you before?
Raptor514
Robert M. Templeton
says...
>>
>>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>>
>>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>>are a force to be acknowleged.
>>
>>I'll start the ball rolling.
>>
>>My life was Improved!
My life was dramatically improved. My family and I lived in a two-bedroom
apartment with five of us total for ten years (yes, my brother, sister, and I
shared a single bedroom). My mother and her family are very religious Roman
Catholics, and we (my siblings and I) were indoctrinated forthwith and
mercilessly (circumcised, baptized, and christened). Despite the fact that my
father was an alcoholic auto mechanic and we had barely enough money at any
given time, we still gave the church something like $2 or $5 every Sunday. I
hope the church is ecstatic that impoverished members are so deluded as to
still stuff their coffers. To that end, I didn't get my first bicycle until I
was twelve. Although I am the oldest, I was also the shortest, shyest [sic],
and due to my interest in reading over sports, had no friends by about age
ten. I just love people...
By the time I was a junior in high school, the rusty critical thinking gears
in my brain started slowly turning. I had been moving away from the
institutional church into more fringe groups (extra-churchical (hehe) prayer
meetings, born-again prayer meetings (repleat with speaking in tongues and
everything), Messianic Jews, dated a JW (and went to her 'church') and so
forth) but made several stabs at considering the priesthood, almost joining a
seminary. At one point, I even had, read, and believed those little pamphlets
that describe the "End Times" when the Russians (Gog, or was it Magog), with
wooden tanks, would attack Israel, defended by the righteous US of A and other
nonsense to validate Revelations.
Nevertheless, the conflict between my impoverished, shy, friendless, hopeless
religiosity and thinking, curious, determined drive to live caused me to
associate with people under the worst circumstances (in order to drink and do
drugs while believing that they would turn into good friend - phhhht),
spiralling into despair and suicidal tendencies (no, not the band :). After
struggling for about five years, I decided to abandon the influences that were
keeping me distraught, teach myself guitar, physics (the only science that I
had in school, in toto, was one year of chemistry and two of biology), and
computer programming (thanks to the inspiration and assistance of an older
friend with a Commodore 64).
Now I am no longer shy; no longer embarrassed by my body or sex. I have moved
from hating the organized church to understanding atheism, critical thinking,
and science. Although my awe at life and the universe were great while under
the influence of religion, it has reached ever greater heights as I increase
my awareness and knowledge through observation, thinking, and learning. There
is no longer the need to 'confess my sins' to some stranger, go to mass and
barely participate in some mystery ritual, feel guilty about being a human
being, naively pray to something which never responds, and worry about being
engulfed in eternal fires.
To quote Paul, "it was as if scales fell from my eyes."
Robert M. Templeton
--
a.a. #a++
Beowulf
(Please forgive the pun.)
Not only has atheism improved my life, but I was
not at all happy with myself or my world as a Christian.
I was nasty, brutish, ignorant, and close-minded.
Now I'm nasty, brutish, less ignorant, and open-minded.
---
EAC Eater of Meatpies
Atheist #1942
"It is the dice, in fact, that play God with the universe."
Remove the ape to reply.
tos...@aol.com ab...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com
ab...@msn.com ab...@sprint.com ab...@earthlink.com u...@ftc.gov
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Ben Hayes
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
My life was improved.
I feel more free to think about the world logically, especially
morality. It has opened whole new thought processes for me.
Ben
Elf Sternberg
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> writes:
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been
>improved by atheism.
I don't think you can say that my life has been "improved" by
adopting "atheism" because there's nothing to atheism, uniquely, to
adopt. I could say that my life has improved greatly since abandoning
theism-- bit that's different.
But, let's conflate the two anyway. I would say that being an
atheist has made me happier and less conflicted; the general revelation
of the world as I see it is much easier to handle if I'm not constantly
attempting to reconcile it with any special revelation from "on high."
It's allowed me to take the world and the people in it "as is," without
any special blinders on separating "the saved" and "the damned." While
I may well have other blinders on, such as those separating "liberals"
and "conservatives," "theists" and "atheist," and so on, at least I know
they're there, they're abitrary, and I don't wrestle with the
metaphysical notion that "something else" is going on underneath
otherwise human beings.
And I'm happier for it.
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988
http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/ (under construction)
I have seen the light. I was not impressed.
Mark Richardson
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
>
>
This question doesnt apply directly - I never was a believer.
However, I can imagine and ask hypothetical "what if" questions.
I do wonder "What if I am missing something?" - and have spent a great
deal of time studying people and trying to decide if I should embrace
some god or other.
(Whether I could choose to believe something is another matter!)
In general I find believers to be no better people than non believers.
I have seen beautifull, kind, loving people of both persuations and
evil bastards of both persuations.
There is something profoundly disturbing about a good kind believer
attributing all the good in themselves to a god.
I cant say I am happier than I would be as a believer - I just dont
know - but I wish to see things as they are - and take the good with
the bad.
Thats just the way I am.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson
<duf...@duffina.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>I have embraced neither side but have alwyas swung towards athiesm. It
>hans't deminished my life at all but sometimes I wish I could be blind and
>believe in god and the afterlife. Death would be a much less scary concept.
>
What is scary about death?
To you, the person who is dead, death is nothing.
No time passes, no pain is felt, no thoughts thought...
Dying is scary because you are still *alive* and experiencing the
discomfort of your body - death is gentle, endless, dreamless, sleep.
richard
"Robibnikoff" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:zKg58.1271$%q1....@www.newsranger.com...
> Hmmm....Hard to say as I was born an atheist and have stayed one all of my
life
> (going on 41 years - blech). However, after hearing stories about
people's
> religious upbringings, I am very grateful to have been raised without
religion.
>
In my own case, I believed in God as a kid, but my belief
wasn't really tied to any specific religion (I can count on one
hand the number of times I've been to a Church in my 38 years
of life). By the time I was a teenager, I had grown out of that
childish belief, but it had been a gradual process, with
no specific events really hastening the change.
With regards to being grateful about escaping the
religious trap, I must say that having a good friend become
a fundamentalist Christian certainly solidified in my mind
my position as an atheist. The only thing his non-stop
efforts to try and convert me served to do was show
me the extent to which the Christian belief system was
corrupt and irrational. Ultimately, he himself turned away
from fundamentalism, and when he did so, you could tell
that an oppressive weight had been lifted from his
shoulders.
Richard
John Kelley
(Beowulf) wrote:
>I read Rick's claim and could only shake my head in disbelief.
>(Please forgive the pun.)
>
>Not only has atheism improved my life, but I was
>not at all happy with myself or my world as a Christian.
>I was nasty, brutish, ignorant, and close-minded.
>
>Now I'm nasty, brutish, less ignorant, and open-minded.
That's understandable. You have to be nasty and brutish to do battle
with Grendel and her gang. :-)
John Kelley - a.a.# 1985 - (fka Darwin)
"Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so,
it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as
it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -Lewis Carroll
Vince
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
To me the most important thing in life is the pursuit of truth and
knowledge. The corollary of that is the exposure and the rejection of fraud,
lies and deception. This newsgroup has helped to expose that fraud, leading
to a feeling of freedom and independence.
Vince
>
Peter van Velzen
But do you really think that would convince a theist?
My scepticism on the intellect of the human being has also been improved :)
--
"Think for yourself"
Atheist #1107
Peter van Velzen
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~pbamvv/petervve.htm
Daniel Kolle
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
Mine sure as Hell was, damn, all those 'prayers' you have to know can
get to you.
Not only that, but I am in Alabama, and I am an Atheist.
I think I deserve a medal of valor for this.
Daniel Kolle--Nintendo fanboi; Atheist Republician.
13/Huntsville, Alabama
"I am not a Troll"--Alex Cain
550 posts and climbing!
Bob Simmons
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
>
>
all the way with Rosey). I was going to be too embarassed (if) I got to
heaven.
My environment makes more sense. No one is receiving favor, for whatever
silly reason. I have a meaning of life that makes absolute sense. (not
that a meaning is necessary).
Offhand, the only thing detrimental is the possible judgment by those in my
community, and the denial of friendship for my daughter if my position were
made public. I don't know of any personally, but do know that when the
daughter is at their houses, some talk about their god and bible stuff. My
wife is a believer. Thus far, the daughter is too, and I find this OK.
After all, she still believes in Santa Claus too. She knows my position,
and chooses to believe there is a god. I believe she will be smart enough
(she is at the top of her class) to one day learn beyond silly superstitions
and myths.
So, yes, my life is better as an atheist. The pieces of the puzzle to
understanding my environment fit together much more quickly now.
thanks
>
Dave
>
>
> My life was Improved!
>
Being religious and being superstitious are very much intertwined.
Both claim that random events are not random and that all sorts of
horrors are waiting for you just around the next bend unless you know
the countermeasures, groveling to Jesus, or avoiding black cats or
whatever. It is very frightening to be brought up to believe that
events could be happening *because* of an ill-tempered God or spirits
or the balance of luck or whatever. Movies and television have brought
such fears to life with countless visualizations in story after story
of bizarre events and strange turns of luck.
It is much much better to learn to disregard the irrational. If God is
going to strike us down with bolts of lightning then why aren't more
blackened corpses being carted off? It isn't happening.
Religion is an ancient method of dealing with the fear of the unknown,
but there are now better rational methods. My life is very much
improved since discarding the rubbish, and I would not even say that I
am an atheist. I am an agnostic who knows in his heart that the Bible
God is a fraud. If there is a God out there 'it' is not the needy,
idiotic, vicious, jealous fiend of the Bible, nor the cowardly Jesus
who spoke in parables to keep from being stoned, and 'it' is equally
unlikely to be represented by any of the other silly religions or
beliefs that surround us today.
david clayton
reason.
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
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"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
Dies Irae
Frank Brosnan
I now have an honest, unafraid rational view of life unpopulated with
demons, spirits or holy ghosts. I could never, ever go back to the
closed-minded, subordinate role of the religionists.
Bryan
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist
. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Robert Schneider
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Yes. Giving up religion was the best decision that I ever made. No more
"fearing" nonexistant entities that ignore your prayers.
S.D.
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
The improvement was no more fear of the big guy striking me with
lightning because I was listening to music he didn't approve of. I was
10 and with one eye on the blue sky and both ears to the radio.
Yesterday I took my cousin to the dentist after 3 days of her praying
to god to stop the pain. Her mother stayed up all night praying as
well! The infection was so bad that it affected her teeth's alignment.
Imagine all that pain for nothing!
I don't need the threat of hell or the promise of heaven to know how
to treat my fellow man. Remember god spelled backwards is DOG. When
approached by christains I like to offer them a bridge for sale,
located in London there are rumors that it is falling down.
Eventually, I'm sure, I'll get one of them to buy it.HAHA
Laura
other fears that you don't have to face
as an atheist AND ... you still have to fear death. Because
some part of you would know that belief is just belief, it
is not certain even for a believer.
"Andrew" <duf...@duffina.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c554a3b$0$8505$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...
Dan The Kool Man
"Kerry" <clea...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:3C54C104...@bigpond.net.au...
YES.
>
> Mind you, the question of what makes everything tick has never left me,
but
> being outside of the direct influence of the religion hucksters and their
> commercial god bullshit allows me to read and consider anything and
everything
> I want. Reading the newsgroups now for coming up on 7 years has never
brought
> any convincing information from any theist yet about their god of Abraham,
nor
> anything of any other gods either.
>
> Kerry
> aa #1773
See that is where my version of theism differs from most, I have my own
personal beliefs and I don't accept any of the traditional religions or
religious text, except perhaps, to some degree, Unitarian-Universalism. In
fact, I'm probably somewhere inbetween an agnostic and a theist, I consider
myself to be a "theistic freethinker", a "truthseeker", if you will. A lot
of what atheists have posted here about how atheism has improved their lives
matches how rejecting Christianity/Pentecostalism, and rejecting the idea of
a perfect God, has improved my life. If my life sucks or feels like it
sucks at one time or another, I am not as prone to blame God and feel
resentful of Him and my life. I accept that when bad things happen to me or
when I experience awful feelings, they don't happen to me because they are a
"trial" or a "test", or because I need "more faith", such ideas can breed
great bitterness and resentment.
I don't believe that anything or anyone is perfect, including God. And
while I believe that God is imperfect because his powers have limits, I do
believe that He is good, perfect, just, and reasonable in His judgement &
will and I believe that He loves and cares about each and every one of us.
I don't believe that God punishes anyone or withholds anything from anyone
just because they don't believe in Him. Simply put, I believe that God
simply does "the best that he can", and that all I have to do is do "the
best that I can" and I will be okay (or all anyone else has to do is do "the
best that they can" and they will be okay), and that gives me a sense of
great comfort and clarity that I have never had before.
In fact, Christianity/Pentecostalism and the Bible damaged my life and step
by step I am picking up the shattered pieces and putting my life back
together. One of those steps was denying Christianity/Pentecostalism and
the Bible altogether and developing my own beliefs that support, and do not
conflict with or hinder, rational and healthy thinking.
Dan The Kool Man http://www.danthekoolman.com
"But Dad, you're giving in to mob mentality!" "No I'm not, I'm hopping on
the bandwagon. Now come on son, get with the winning team!"
---Bart & Homer Simpson
leongsh
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
My life has improved.
- leongsh..
a.a.#1860
Angelico
"DDDartist" <ddda...@hotmail.com> tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> Nope! I can't really say that being an atheist has improved my life
> in any
> way. Sorry, I wish I could jump on the bandwagon, but it wouldn't be
> the
> truth. And, I'm not playing "devil's advocate", either.
>
> Yes, I revel in my ability to accept reason over superstition. Yes, I
> feel a
> certain sense of liberation from dogma. But, I also feel the weight
> of my
> mortality *much* more intensely. I *wish* I could put aside my
> intellect and
> be content to believe in the realm of the sky-pixie. But I can't. I
> don't
> think religiots understand how much courage is required to go through
> life
> *knowing* that this is all there is, and *knowing* that the majority
> of the
> people around you are insane because they are religiots.
>
> (I really appreciate this NG, but ya'll are gonna get *so* tired of
> me
> beating the same dead horse! I offer apologies in advance.)
It was hard for me too in the beginning, but now I'm used to it. I've
learned to live with that knowledge en it really doesn't bother me
much. OTOH, I agree with you that it's needed a lot of courage to live
this way.
--
Angel Arnal, Valencia, España aa #1443 BAAWA knave aka "Lazarillo"
http://angelico.iespana.es maky m. #(sqrt(5)-1)/2
EAC Chairperson for Bible Translation Mess-up | Official EAC Latin Lover
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Boatwright Award for Creative Scientific Ignorance
> I took 1st year high school algebra, which is all a person needs
> to know in order to prove Einstein and his disciples wrong.
> Robert B. Winn
Rules at http://teleline.terra.es/personal/angelarn/comun/jpbaward.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jasen Anderson
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
>
>
>
Yes, my life has improved...........damn right it has. I am free to do what
I choose and what I feel is good and right. I am free to know the wonder of
nature and the truth of it's existence through science without being
preached about how high and mighty the human race is over all things. I am
now one with it, not one above it and not serving something higher that is
not real and is only imagined in the minds of men. I removed 22 years of
religious shackles and my life is so much the better for it and only I
worked it out, nobody told me to do so but myself and my open, freethinking,
knowledge seeking, rational and logical thinking mind.
Beowulf
Kelley) ejaculated:
>On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:31:16 GMT, skr...@homosapiens.attglobal.net
>(Beowulf) wrote:
>
>>I read Rick's claim and could only shake my head in disbelief.
>>(Please forgive the pun.)
>>
>>Not only has atheism improved my life, but I was
>>not at all happy with myself or my world as a Christian.
>>I was nasty, brutish, ignorant, and close-minded.
>>
>>Now I'm nasty, brutish, less ignorant, and open-minded.
>
>That's understandable. You have to be nasty and brutish to do battle
>with Grendel and her gang. :-)
My problem is when I'm nasty and brutish to people, not monsters. I'm
working on it though, which is something I was unable to do as a
theist. Then my bad behavior was the outgrowth of my "sin nature" and
a consequence of being "tempted by the devil".
Now, I realize all urges I feel come from me and I am responsible for
them. Having them does not make me a bad person it's how I respond to
them and act that defines what kind of person I am. The locus of
control has shifted from begging some remote fairy for help to taking
charge myself.
This is my life and I will act the way I want, not as a slave.
Borg166
> atheism.
My life was improved.
Brenda Nelson
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
So was mine, and *vastly*!
Brenda Nelson, A.A. #34
Chief Wrangler and Ramrod Emeritus
(and Professor of Feline Thermometrics)
EAC Equine Transportation Command/Carne Seca Division
in the Prefecture of Baja, Arizona
Jeff Graham
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
>
>
Well, I'll say one thing: Now I no longer have to worry about trying
to redesign or otherwise distort facts to fit theology, or to work
around errors in the Qur'an or other scriptures. I guess I'd been
having serious doubts for some time, but only admitted to myself that
I was an atheist a few months ago )before that I opted for liberal
interpretations of Christianity and Islam.
--
Jeffrey L. Graham - a.a.# 1946
folk singer/songwriter; cartoonist
High Priest of Guinubis
http://hometown.aol.com/jeffreygraham62/myhomepage/personal.html
http://jeff_9921.tripod.com/templeofguinubis/
http://jeff_9921.tripod.com/religioushumour/
"Do not believe in what I say just yet,
think about it, practicing it, when you
get the result by yourself then believe
in yourself."
-Buddha
personal replies may also be crossposted to
alt.fan.jeffrey-graham
(if your usenet provider doesn't have it, ask for it).
J Anderson
"Clayton PhuQ" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
>
>
>
I struggled for many years with my beliefs. It actually tormented me. Once
I stopped running to god when things went bad and realized that my life was
a product of MY actions and not based upon my desire to be saved for my
"sins". It was then that I was liberated and could focus on things for what
they were. It opened me up to astronomy and made me realize just how small
and unimportant we are in the vast scheme of things. So I say.....It has
simplified and improved my life.
JEA
unpredictable
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Mine has definitely improved!.No longer do I feel guilty for doing
things my way and no longer do I have to follow some silly rules,The
praying,going to church and other things weren't making my life
anymore better,and I only believed because I was told.I feel much
better now that I don't beleve in devils,saints,ghosts,oooga booga
tales,and Elvis Presley,aliens,UFO's..I mean that's what the Bible is
about right? :)
Martin Crisp
wrote (in message <3c54a191$0$30867$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>):
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious"
> mentioned what I believe to be an urban legend about some theist
> challenging an atheist to a debate but only if he could bring
> along 100 people who's lives where improved by becoming atheists.
> I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000 people who's lives
> have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that it is
> just a list and no indication of any life being improved by
> atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been
> improved by atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the
> world know if your life was improved by becoming an atheist. All
> you have to do is reply with the words "Yes" or "My life was
> improved!" and let the theists know how many of us there are. If
> you want to go into details and let them know why your life was
> improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Yes. Much.
Have Fun
Martin
--
aa #1792
[...]Et sepultus resurrexit; certum est, quia impossibile.
-- Tertullian
Almost always SMASHed
PGP Key (ID 0xED55A6D0) Fingerprint:
A7C7 F865 B317 ABBB B10E D8AC F4AD 347D ED55 A6D0
Icarus
> Simply put, I believe that God simply does "the best
> that he can", and that all I have to do is do "the best
> that I can" and I will be okay (or all anyone else has
> to do is do "the best that they can" and they will be
> okay),...
First: Where in your life, or anyone else's life for that
matter, is there any indication that 'god' does anything at all,
let alone "the best that he can"? As far as I can see, things
happen from natural causes, or human volition, but there's no
evidence that anything that ever happened can be attributed to
god. Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad
people, where is there any sign of a supernatural plan behind it
all?
Second: It is clearly *not* true that if people do "the best
they can" then they will be "okay". People often do the very
best they can and still have all kinds of horrendous things
happen to them. You only have to look in the media of the latest
natural disaster / murder / rape / child abuse case etc, terrible
things that happen to good people who are only doing "the best
they can"... How do you square this with your philosophy?
Steve Mading
: Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
: believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
: debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
: improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
: people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
: it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
: So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
: atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
: life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
: the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
: of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
: life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
: are a force to be acknowleged.
: I'll start the ball rolling.
: My life was Improved!
Technically your life isn't improved by atheism - it's improved by
getting rid of the destructive belief of theism.
Michelle Malkin
In other words, you are a salad bar theist. You take what you life
from religion and reject what you don't like. Calling this being
rational doesn't make it so. Someone else could do the same exact
thing though choosing other parts of religion that you might disagree
with. They also would call this rational, but it still wouldn't be.
This wouldn't be cool at all.
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
aa atheist list #1 ULC list #3 SMASH member
High Priestess Bastet of the non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC Bible Thumper Thumper BAAWA Knight Who Says SPONG!
makym# SPONG!!
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com/
http://www.geocities.com/hypatiab7/
http://www.thehungersite.com/
http://bigcats.care2.com/
http://ecologyfund.com/
Dan The Kool Man
"Icarus" <icar...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a36u8g$vi8$1...@newsreader.mailgate.org...
"do the best that you can" in the next life and if you are fortunate, in
this one also. At the very least, things will be "the best that they can
be" in this life and there is hope that things will be "better" or at least
"okay" in the future, it may only apply to the next life for a person or it
may also include this life too. We cannot do more than "the best that we
can" and neither can God (I am assuming here that he exists). If you "do
the best that you can" and know this, then you can take pride in yourself
and elevate your self-esteem in knowing that you are a good person and
haven't "earned" any of the "horrendous things" that may happen or may have
happened to you (assuming that they are not a natural consequence of immoral
actions, and even if this is so, you can recoginze that you are human and
make mistakes and can take humility in that and forgive yourself if you feel
guilty or shameful about it)-- and you can take comfort in knowing that
things will be more plesant in the next life and (if you survive or have
survived "horrendous incident(s)") that you may be able to make something
out of this life for as long as you live it.
Plus, if everyone did "the best that they could", then far less "horrendous
things"-- like murder, rape, child abuse, etc. (we can't do much to prevent
devistation from natural disasters at this point in time)-- would happen to
people.
I accept that there may be no afterlife and/or no God; I also accept that in
the next life there may be a monkey who spins a wheel that randomly
determines what our fate will be for all of eternity-- we don't really know.
I believe what I believe in by hope and faith balanced with reason.
MEow
<cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> on Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:30 +1000
wrote:
>Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
>believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to a
>debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
>improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
>people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists that
>it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
>So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved by
>atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
>life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply with
>the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how many
>of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why your
>life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
>are a force to be acknowleged.
>
>I'll start the ball rolling.
>
>My life was Improved!
>
I've always been an atheist, but my life *has* been improved by
realising that I am one and not trying to pretend being something that
I'm not. That also helped me look into actually doing something about
what bothered me, in stead of trying to find a religion og something
supernatural to solve my personal problems. It worked so much better
and I was happy to find out that the people around me - Friends and
family were more than willing to help once I asked for it. That's when
I developed my motto "Humans don't need gods; Humans need humans" and
I mean that - not just as a provocation...
--
Nikitta - Female with gender-ambiguous name
Lifelong atheist #1759. EAC - Spanker of Theists
AFV Bitchiness-Club
ICQ# 147028026
"German cities do get used for a lot of wierd stuff, don't they?" Gnom McGnomus
Carlos Th
> But then you would have to fear god, satan, the demons, sin, and a host of
> other fears that you don't have to face
> as an atheist AND ... you still have to fear death. Because
> some part of you would know that belief is just belief, it
> is not certain even for a believer.
No. You don't have to.
Okay, this is a problem on how religions manifest as a set of musts
and don'ts, but the way I have realized my own religion, religion is a
guide not a contrain. I admit I was very afraid as a kid: afraid of
death, afraid of sin, afraid of demons, etc. I admit I still am even
if I do not longer believe in demons or sin.
But even if I am not a religious person, religion without sins,
without demons, without dogma, without an afterlife is still something
that leads my life. Religion don't have to be supernatural things. I
see religion as something we have created because we can create it, a
cultural thing, and because we can create it it is pretty real. The
way I have seen most people here express their atheism is a religious
experience, atheism is something you believe in, atheism is something
that leads you through your lifes. You, by resigning to god have
resign too to the bad parts of religions: demons, fear of sin and
comdenation, satan, etc.
You can also resign to that without resigning to the god you were
taught.
As for the survey. Well, I thing my skepticism has improved my life.
-- Carlos Th
Jasen Anderson
"DDDartist" <ddda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vFe58.8269$gd.18...@news2.nash1.tn.home.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> news:d84848ab.02012...@posting.google.com...
> > "DDDartist" <ddda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:<gk858.8184$gd.16...@news2.nash1.tn.home.com>...
> >
> > ... I
> > > don't
> > > think religiots understand how much courage is required to go
> > > through life
> > > *knowing* that this is all there is, and *knowing* that the
> > > majority of the
> > > people around you are insane because they are religiots.
> >
> > that really gets me. It's like being surrounded by mental patients
> > all the time. One minute they're talking normal, the next they're
> > spouting Jesus-related gobbledygook about salvation and such.
> > It's hard not to be rattled by people when you don't share their
> > beliefs and are completely surrounded by them.
> >
> > And you're right about mortality. Every so often, I come to at
> > night with a sudden shock, realizing that this is my life, and that
> > it will one day be over, that I'll be in an old age home or
> > hospital bed. Of course, part of this shock is realizing I wasted
> > a fair portion of my youth (college years) on religion, and didn't
> > enjoy them. But still, it's hard. It's funny how this feeling
> > seems to go away when you're awake and focussed on things you're
> > interested in. (Is this a common experience?)
> >
> > But I wouldn't trade the intellectual freedom, and consistent
> > platform on which to experience life for anything. I certainly
> > couldn't go back to the mental contortions and downright insanity
> > of religion, which wasted so much of my life. And there's a certain
> > adventurous charm in striking out in unknown waters and doing
> > something that you KNOW sets you apart from the herd. It's just
> > lonely out here.
> >
>
> [snip]
>
> I have to say, that you give me hope. I found a few others in the
> "Atheism in a nutshell" thread.
>
> A few years ago, I dabbled with a local FFRF group (Freedom From
> Religion Foundation). That was the first time I ever tried to seek
> out like minds (other than my brother). I was amazed and terribly
> discouraged by the experience. There was a community of twenty or
> thirty people who professed a desire to be free from religion, but
> every single one of them treated me as though I were insane for
> having these ideas.
>
> I mean, good grief, what is the use of being free from religion if
> you're not going to take the next logical step and erradicate that
> which gave rise to religion in the first place?
I've read your posts about this fear you have and I must admit I am still
trying to eradicate it myself. I've only been an atheist properly for about
3 years now and 20 odd years of religious upbringing are still being
removed. It is a hard thing to get rid of, especially the niggling doubt of
"what if we're wrong" that crops up every so often. It is something that
happens overnight.
If I wasn't in science then it would probably take longer than it has, if at
all. I credit science for getting the ball rolling and informing me,
through my knowledge of it and the learning of all the basic sciences apart
from my professional field of genetics, of the truth of the world and the
universe in which we live.
>
> Once again, thanks for the response.
>
> Regards,
> DDDArtist
>
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DDDartist
Hash: SHA1
"Jasen Anderson" <genom...@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:a37b80$ktv$1...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
[much snippage]
> >
> > I have to say, that you give me hope. I found a few others in the
> > "Atheism in a nutshell" thread.
> >
> > A few years ago, I dabbled with a local FFRF group (Freedom From
> > Religion Foundation). That was the first time I ever tried to
> > seek out like minds (other than my brother). I was amazed and
> > terribly discouraged by the experience. There was a community of
> > twenty or thirty people who professed a desire to be free from
> > religion, but every single one of them treated me as though I
> > were insane for having these ideas.
> >
> > I mean, good grief, what is the use of being free from religion
> > if you're not going to take the next logical step and erradicate
> > that which gave rise to religion in the first place?
>
> I've read your posts about this fear you have and I must admit I am
> still trying to eradicate it myself. I've only been an atheist
> properly for about 3 years now and 20 odd years of religious
> upbringing are still being removed. It is a hard thing to get rid
> of, especially the niggling doubt of "what if we're wrong" that
> crops up every so often. It is something that happens overnight.
Believe me, I understand and empathize. The periods just before sleep
are particularly acute for me. I really don't understand how others
manage to compartmentalize this aspect of their existence. I wasn't
like this in my youth. (Who is?) But, when I reached an age where I
'felt' that I had passed the halfway point of my lifespan, it started
nagging at me, and has gotten steadily worse.
I wasn't raised in a particularly religious atmosphere. In my home
religion was always assumed but never actually taught or practiced,
other than the major holidays; which for me meant nothing more than
presents at christmas and candy at easter. It's difficult for me to
understand the impact that a strict religious upbringing can have on
one's development throughout childhood.
As mentioned previously, I have been a 'seeker' all my life. But,
from about the age of 11 or 12, I knew that the judeo/christian
paradigm just didn't make sense; especially after I understood that
there were many different religions, all claiming to have the one
unique and absolute truth. That's when I decided that they were all
bullshit. After that, my 'seekerism' became more of a search for
'meaning' or 'purpose' for my existence. Unfortunately, I haven't
really found anything there, either. Bummer! Of all the world's
philosophies, I feel most closely aligned with Buddhism. Although, my
personal take on it is tempered by a layman's study of the sciences.
But, in general, I think the Buddha discovered, directly experienced,
and then attempted to describe the nature of existence. Obviously,
though, his experience was filtered and delivered through a
historical and societal context that was more primitive than what is
available to us now. In terms of alleviating my angst regarding
death, Buddhism is not much of a solice to me.
> If I wasn't in science then it would probably take longer than it
> has, if at all. I credit science for getting the ball rolling and
> informing me, through my knowledge of it and the learning of all
> the basic sciences apart from my professional field of genetics, of
> the truth of the world and the universe in which we live.
>
>
A geneticist??? Man...if I had your skill I'd be doing some *radical*
cooking! No Joke! Seriously, are you by any chance involved with
Telomere and Telomerase research?
[snip]
DDDArtist
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Fear gan dia
> Nope! I can't really say that being an atheist has improved my life
> in any
> way. Sorry, I wish I could jump on the bandwagon, but it wouldn't be
> the
> truth. And, I'm not playing "devil's advocate", either.
>
> Yes, I revel in my ability to accept reason over superstition. Yes, I
> feel a
> certain sense of liberation from dogma. But, I also feel the weight
> of my
> mortality *much* more intensely. I *wish* I could put aside my
> intellect and
> be content to believe in the realm of the sky-pixie. But I can't. I
> don't
> think religiots understand how much courage is required to go through
> life
> *knowing* that this is all there is, and *knowing* that the majority
> of the
> people around you are insane because they are religiots.
Atheism HAS improved my life, for reasons mentioned by several other
people so I won't duplicate. I can honestly say that the mortality
thing isn't a big deal for me. I grew up with the stereotypical Irish
catholic upbringing - read "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" to
get the flavor of it - I was subjected to large doses of the fear of
hellfire, and somehow the possibility of heaven didn't compensate. I
mean, who wants to live in endless stultifying bliss? I don't mind
dying as long as I have had a full and satisfying life beforehand, and
my death isn't lingering and painful. The idea of endless nothingness
doesn't bother me - as someone (Mark Twain?) said, I experienced
endless nothingness before I was born and it didn't do me any harm.
It seems to me that the knowledge that our lives are finite ought to
make us value them all the more. It's childish to say, as so many
bleaters do, that your life is meaningless just because it doesn't
last forever. That's like saying a Beethoven symphony is worthless
because it doesn't last forever, or a Rembrandt painting is worthless
because it doesn't cover an infinite area. Quality, not quantity, is
the important thing!
I feel that the xian idea that this world is transitory and ephemeral,
and therefore dirty and worthless, has been enormously destructive to
the planet. Why bother worrying about the environment future
generations have to live in, if gawd is gonna rapture our asses outa
here real soon now and leave those atheist communist satanist secular
humanists to deal with the mess! It would certainly explain why the
religious reich, and their sock puppet, president-appointee George
Bush Jr., are so hostile to the environment.
For me, atheism means that my destiny is my own responsibility, and
not under the control of invisible, irrational forces - and that is an
enormous benefit.
--
Fear gan dia # Director, EAC Division for Leaving the Toilet Seat up.
Everyone has the right to an *informed* opinion.
"I darn you to heck!" - Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light
Wwduke
>don't
>think religiots understand how much courage is required to go through
>life
>*knowing* that this is all there is, and *knowing* that the majority
>of the
>people around you are insane because they are religiots.
I noticed the emphasis placed on knowing. Do you really know this or is it a
conclusion you have reached from thinking and reasoning through the things you
do know. If it is a conclusion based on the knowledge you posess, is it
possible that with more knowledge you could have reached a different
conclusion? Since you are not omniscient (nor am I), you should simply assert
that you believe that "this is all there is."
Holding to theistic beliefs does not render one insane. Perhaps you can explain
how being a religiot (I assume that this means a religious person) makes one
insane. I know many religious people who are both sane and rational.
The religious also live with great courage. They have to endure persecution
from people who think that they are insane without just cause. To get up
everyday and face people who condemn faith and think you have abandoned reasoun
must be tough.
Wwduke
>learned to live with that knowledge en it really doesn't bother me
>much.
You speak of your belief system as if it is more than faith. Is your knowledge
complete? If it is not complete, then perhaps your conclusion is inaccurate.
Wwduke
>is principally a matter of intellectual speculation, but on the
>balance of likelihood I'd say it has improved my lot in life.
Were you previously in religion?
Wwduke
>started enjoying many normal aspects of my life that were "sinful"
>before. Thinking without restraints, for example.
I am not sure which religion teaches that people should not think. Most I have
encountered appeal to reason and supply cogent arguments for their positions.
Many are full of people with advanced degrees, some even MD! Hard to get an MD
if you don't think.
Wwduke
>having to listen to some clueless priest read nonsensical scriptures
>and spout platitudes
Wow. I have heard many good things from ministers. Perhaps the minister really
believes the "platitudes" and lives by them. That would make him quite an
honorable man.
>which he expects me to pay him for via a cash
>donation.
If you think he puts the money in his pocket you are mistaken. Do you think the
property is free? Do you think the utilities pay themselves? Do organs and
pianos stay in tune forever? Someone has to vacuum and tidy up. Do you believe
that the plumbing never fails? The maintenance of a church facility is certain
to cost more than you have estimated. Besides this, most ministers I know get
paid less than the people who sit on church boards.
In addition to this, the minister visits the sick, spends hours searching for
something meaningful to say, feeds the poor and many other activities that
others would describe as "platitudinous." Be fair. Just because you no longer
believe you don't have to condemn the minister. Hmmm. Isn't that interesting.
The minister is judged by the one who does not know him.
Wwduke
I am not aware of any religious systems that require that one live in guilt and
self loathing.
Wwduke
>I choose and what I feel is good and right. I am free to know the wonder of
>nature and the truth of it's existence through science
You have always had this freedom. So do people in religion have this freedom.
>not serving something higher that is
>not real and is only imagined in the minds of men.
What is imagined in the minds of men? How do we know it is only imagination?
>freethinking,
>knowledge seeking, rational and logical thinking mind.
This is the mind we should all have.
Tim DeLaney
> Rick Carrol in the thread "A challenge for the religious" mentioned what I
> believe to be an urban legend about some theist challenging an atheist to
a
> debate but only if he could bring along 100 people who's lives where
> improved by becoming atheists. I pointed him to the Atheist list as 2000
> people who's lives have been improved by becoming atheists. He insists
that
> it is just a list and no indication of any life being improved by atheism.
>
> So I would like you all to demonstrate how many lives have been improved
by
> atheism. I want everyone of you to reply and let the world know if your
> life was improved by becoming an atheist. All you have to do is reply
with
> the words "Yes" or "My life was improved!" and let the theists know how
many
> of us there are. If you want to go into details and let them know why
your
> life was improved then go ahead, but we just want to let the world know we
> are a force to be acknowleged.
>
> I'll start the ball rolling.
>
> My life was Improved!
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but atheism hasn't improved my life, nor has it
made it any worse. I did not adopt beliefs in order to improve my life, I
adopted them because they are reasonable, and most likely true.
I don't believe in god or gods. Why should that make me happier or sadder?
Didn't Mohammed Atta die in a state of (theistic) ecstasy? Belief in god
(Allah) certainly improved his life, at least what remained of it. But so
what?
Did I become happier when I found out that there was no Santa Claus? No, it
was just part of growing up.
Tim
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