stolen identities
ElisaMB
Laura. Marcy plans Veronica's Party while Kim plans the Virtual Adoption
University course offerings. Kim and Marcy made a hilarious team on that
"Slut" thread. Maybe now we should conclude that Marcy, and not Tina, is Kim's
real lost mommy.
Veronica22
OMG I can't keep up, besides, Veronica was married to Tim.
Veronica
"If you cannot keep the family skeleton in the closet, you may as well make it
dance." -- George Bernard Shaw
boo...@ivillage.com
mo...@onramp.net wrote:
> Veronica22 wrote:
> >
> > Elisa said:
> > "so now Marcy thinks Veronica is Laura while Kim thinks that Tim is related
to
> > Laura. Marcy plans Veronica's Party while Kim plans the Virtual Adoption
> > University course offerings. Kim and Marcy made a hilarious team on that
> > "Slut" thread. Maybe now we should conclude that Marcy, and not Tina, is
Kim's
> > real lost mommy."
> > ***
> >
> > OMG I can't keep up, besides, Veronica was married to Tim.
>
> is my alter ego, but my friends call me Laura Lewis. Except the ones
> that call me Celeste. When I am Celeste I am married to steve, and
> Linda is our child. I am also Deer Watson and Marley. Sometimes I am
> SCOM, but mostly I am Ghoulardi.
> Does that cover it?
>
Not quite. Which one of you is really Jessicka?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <35BA90...@onramp.net>,
mo...@onramp.net wrote:
> Veronica22 wrote:
> >
> > Elisa said:
> > "so now Marcy thinks Veronica is Laura while Kim thinks that Tim is related
to
> > Laura. Marcy plans Veronica's Party while Kim plans the Virtual Adoption
> > University course offerings. Kim and Marcy made a hilarious team on that
> > "Slut" thread. Maybe now we should conclude that Marcy, and not Tina, is
Kim's
> > real lost mommy."
> > ***
> >
> > OMG I can't keep up, besides, Veronica was married to Tim.
>
> No, I am married to Tim. I am Veronica as well as Kim and Tina. Elisa
> is my alter ego, but my friends call me Laura Lewis. Except the ones
> that call me Celeste. When I am Celeste I am married to steve, and
> Linda is our child. I am also Deer Watson and Marley. Sometimes I am
> SCOM, but mostly I am Ghoulardi.
> Does that cover it?
NO. no no no no NO!
I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is our
child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again). Tina and
steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney on
acid.
But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all of
the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
Love,
Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
STAY SICK!
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
the_...@buyamac.com wrote:
>
>
> I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is our
> child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again). Tina and
> steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
> Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney on
> acid.
>
> But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all of
> the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
> been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
>
> Love,
> Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
>
> STAY SICK!
From Mary Ellen's Barnyard:
Hmmm. Now I'm totally confused. I just read a post from Jay on another
thread,which said that Marcy is a "VICTIM". Now, if she's a victim, doesn't
that make her a birthmother who suffers from PTSD and was probably coerced
into being an adoption facilitator and an adoptive parent, which then must
mean that she's married to Barnaby? Or does it mean that she's Dick Goddard's
cousin?
And, that reminds me, I don't believe that you're married to Dick Goddard.
Everyone *knows* that Dorothy Fuldheim has been secretly married to Captain
Penny for years. I know for a fact that Tina is *not* having an affair with
Steve, her heart has always belonged to Roy Rogers, and she hasn't been the
same since his recent ride off into the sunset. However, I do remember
reading in a past issue of "Cleveland Magazine" that Steve was at one time
romantically linked to Paige Palmer.
And, by the way, I just attended a major retrospective of Mary Ellen's
cartoons at MOMA. Eat your hearts out. Velveeta on Ritz crackers were served
at the opening with Carling Black Label beer. Very classy affair.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
the_...@buyamac.com wrote in article <6pifh0$2tk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is
our
> child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again).
Tina and
> steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
> Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney
on
> acid.
>
> But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all
of
> the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
> been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
>
> Love,
> Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
>
> STAY SICK!
Where do the wooly-bears fit in?
I always knew that Dorothy and Ghoulardi were hiding something.
Marley
--
I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I think
He likes Pearl Jam, too."
.....John Kasich
*****BASTARD NATION*****
www.bastards.org
Marcy5000
>
>Hmmm. Now I'm totally confused. I just read a post from Jay on another
>thread,which said that Marcy is a "VICTIM". Now, if she's a victim, doesn't
>that make her a birthmother who suffers from PTSD and was probably coerced
>into being an adoption facilitator and an adoptive parent, which then must
>mean that she's married to Barnaby? Or does it mean that she's Dick Goddard's
>cousin?
>
>And, that reminds me, I don't believe that you're married to Dick Goddard.
>Everyone *knows* that Dorothy Fuldheim has been secretly married to Captain
>Penny for years. I know for a fact that Tina is *not* having an affair with
>Steve, her heart has always belonged to Roy Rogers, and she hasn't been the
>same since his recent ride off into the sunset. However, I do remember
>reading in a past issue of "Cleveland Magazine" that Steve was at one time
>romantically linked to Paige Palmer.
>
>And, by the way, I just attended a major retrospective of Mary Ellen's
>cartoons at MOMA. Eat your hearts out. Velveeta on Ritz crackers were served
>at the opening with Carling Black Label beer. Very classy affair.
>
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
></PRE></HTML>
all right, all right, all right I am a birthmother, Kim's birthmother, we were
re-united during the WACO incident, two FBI agents acted as the mediator, I had
Kim when I was 15, I couldn't stand the shame, ( I lived on a Cherokee
reservation), that's right Kim, you are half Cherokee, we should have told you,
you could have registered and had a free college education. Your father was a
proud warrior, his name was " eating at K-Mart", he was a beautiful
man.............I loved him so. I placed Kim with an Orthodox Jewish family in
Brooklyn, she was raised Hassidic...............Her real name is Kim
Keistersteiner, I named her on the OBC, little eating at K-Mart.............so
there you have the horrible truth..............Kim you are the best little girl
in the whole world, and as your birthmother, you can always come home.....and I
suffer from terrible PSTD, I take one bottle of Kendal Jackson Chardonney every
evening , Drs. orders.,
Marcy
Marcy5000
>all right, all right, all right I am a birthmother, Kim's birthmother, we
>were
>re-united during the WACO incident, two FBI agents acted as the mediator, I
>had
>Kim when I was 15, I couldn't stand the shame, ( I lived on a Cherokee
>reservation), that's right Kim, you are half Cherokee, we should have told
>you,
>you could have registered and had a free college education. Your father was a
>proud warrior, his name was " eating at K-Mart", he was a beautiful
>man.............I loved him so. I placed Kim with an Orthodox Jewish family
>in
>Brooklyn, she was raised Hassidic...............Her real name is Kim
>Keistersteiner, I named her on the OBC, little eating at
>K-Mart.............so
>there you have the horrible truth..............Kim you are the best little
>girl
>in the whole world, and as your birthmother, you can always come home.....and
>I
>suffer from terrible PSTD, I take one bottle of Kendal Jackson Chardonney
>every
>evening , Drs. orders.,
>
>Marcy
>
>
></PRE></HTML>
Oh by the way Kim, I wondered, er, I was wondering, ummmmmmm, well if you are
coming home could it be around, ahhhhhhh, 7pm Saturday night, I don't want to
take advantage of our relationship but, I really need a babysitter Saturday,
and well, if you wouldn't mind?
Marcy
Steve White
> Love,
> Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi
I actually tried to interview Dorothy Fuldheim once. I was in high school
and we were supposed to interview a person as an English class assignment.
Most of my classmates ended up interviewing the school janitor, whereas I
went for the big hit. I made an appointment and went downtown one morning,
found her office in a building bigger than ANYTHING I'd ever seen to that
point (I grew up in the rustic areas around Cleveland), and cooled my
heels for an hour in her outer reception area. She finally cancelled me
and I went home depressed. It ended up okay, however, since I finally
managed to interview Herb Score (ok CAT member, who is Herb Score -- 2
bonus points for this one). He was a good guy.
steve
Mary Hunt-Scoville
> I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is
our
> child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again).
Tina and
> steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
> Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney
on
> acid.
>
But Laura's first husband had an affair with Marcy and they had three other
children, Kellee, Jim and Me. Kellee actually used to be Jay, but then she
had the sex-change operation, and now posts under both names because
his/personality split due to the trauma of finding out that Tim wasn't
really her father. Laura's first husband was Ron's weiner-mobile driving
dad. Jim had such a great adoption experience that he went on to become an
adopted father. I was the late suprise child and was relinquished to
Marley and Celesta, who used to live together as lesbian lovers. After
being raised with them, I ran away and had a 9-year affair with Barb before
meeting my true love, Robb Eurytes, who is currently in the process of
leaving his wife for me.
> But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all
of
> the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
> been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
And stacks of blue polyester pants with elastic waistbands.
Mary
Marcy5000
>But Laura's first husband had an affair with Marcy
Laura Lewis?
>and they had three other
>children, Kellee, Jim and Me.
yes and here are their middle names,
Kellee over
Jim Bob
Mary "queen of hearts"
>Kellee actually used to be Jay, but then she
>had the sex-change operation, and now posts under both names
You can catch his act at the Queen Mary in the San Fernando Valley, he does a
terrific Ann Margaret
>because
>his/personality split due to the trauma of finding out that Tim wasn't
>really her father.
classic case of PTSD
> Laura's first husband was Ron's weiner-mobile driving
>dad. Jim had such a great adoption experience that he went on to become an
>adopted father.
and changed his name from Jim to JMHJMD
> I was the late suprise child and was relinquished to
>Marley and Celesta, who used to live together as lesbian lovers.
and their ceremony at the Ritz was incredible, K.D. Lang was the flower girl,
Paula Crow, threw the rice.
>After
>being raised with them, I ran away and had a 9-year affair with Barb
which produced your first son, Dr. Steven White
> Robb Eurytes, who is currently in the process of
>leaving his wife for me.
>
>
and her name is Rachel Goldman
>> the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
>> been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
>
>And stacks of blue polyester pants with elastic waistbands.
always a trend setter
Marcy
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
--
Steve White <swh...@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in article
<swhite-2707...@pulm-mac2.bsd.uchicago.edu>...
> In article <6pifh0$2tk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, the_...@buyamac.com
wrote:
>
> > Love,
> > Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi
>
>
> I actually tried to interview Dorothy Fuldheim once. I was in high school
> and we were supposed to interview a person as an English class
assignment.
> Most of my classmates ended up interviewing the school janitor, whereas I
> went for the big hit. I made an appointment and went downtown one
morning,
> found her office in a building bigger than ANYTHING I'd ever seen to that
> point (I grew up in the rustic areas around Cleveland), and cooled my
> heels for an hour in her outer reception area. She finally cancelled me
> and I went home depressed.
Dorothy stiffed you. What a bummer. Then her picture certainly did deserve
to be blown up.
It ended up okay, however, since I finally
> managed to interview Herb Score (ok CAT member, who is Herb Score -- 2
> bonus points for this one). He was a good guy.
I remember Herb Score, and I quite remember the pitch that ended his
career. I bet ye gave you a good interview.
Marley
>
>
>
>
>
>
> steve
>
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Goddard.
> >Everyone *knows* that Dorothy Fuldheim has been secretly married to
Captain
> >Penny for years. I know for a fact that Tina is *not* having an affair
with
> >Steve, her heart has always belonged to Roy Rogers, and she hasn't been
the
> >same since his recent ride off into the sunset. However, I do remember
> >reading in a past issue of "Cleveland Magazine" that Steve was at one
time
> >romantically linked to Paige Palmer.
who was a very hot item with Tom Haley before Barnaby stepped into the
picture.
TTTina
swh...@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Steve White) writes:
>
>I actually tried to interview Dorothy Fuldheim once. I was in high school
>and we were supposed to interview a person as an English class assignment.
>Most of my classmates ended up interviewing the school janitor, whereas I
>went for the big hit. I made an appointment and went downtown one morning,
>found her office in a building bigger than ANYTHING I'd ever seen to that
>point (I grew up in the rustic areas around Cleveland), and cooled my
>heels for an hour in her outer reception area. She finally cancelled me
>and I went home depressed. It ended up okay, however, since I finally
>managed to interview Herb Score (ok CAT member, who is Herb Score -- 2
>bonus points for this one). He was a good guy.
>
>
Steve !
I didn't know you grew up near Cleveland! I'm sorry Dorothy cancelled your
interview, but Herb Score is a much better interview anyway! He is sincerely a
wonderful person, I think, and while I cursed him to hell and back during many
an Indians game, due to the all to frequent "It's back, it's going, it's out of
here!!!! Oh, excuse me, caught in center field for out number three..." He's
always a kind and interesting man outside the booth. And was a helluva
pitcher, too.
I don't know how I will get used to his absence, and though it's wrong to say,
Davey Nelson will not be an appropriate replacement for at least a decade, if
he can stand it for that long!
Tina.
P.S. -- I don't know what a CAT member is, so your question was probably not
addressed to me. Sorry if I butted into a contest.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
> P.S. -- I don't know what a CAT member is, so your question was probably
not
> addressed to me. Sorry if I butted into a contest.
Sorry, I forgot to induct you into the CAT cult. CATs are Cleveland Area
Triadians. Our soul purpose is to support Cleveland culture and revive the
good old days of Ghoulardi, Dorothy Fuldheim, Barnaby, Capt. Penny and Dick
Goddard. Eventually, we will construct a CAThouse somewhere in the area of
Euclid Beach Park where we will hold Ghoulardi Parties and discuss Dorothy
Fuldheim's hair. CATs are also an adjunct of Bastard Nation. Any
Cleveland area triadian who belongs to BN is automaticaly a CAT. In fact,
our CAT status alone is what has held some us from tearing the throats out
of others here on aa. Many of us were totally insensitive clods until we
discovered our CATtiness. Now, if you're a CAT you're AOK.
Steve White
> Yes he was, as was Bob Feller. Herb Score pitched for the Tribe, was hit
> between the eyes with a baseball, and was never the same.
And what did he do later?
steve
Reply to: stevewhite at ce dot mediaone dot net
Steve White
ttt...@aol.com (TTTina) wrote:
> P.S. -- I don't know what a CAT member is, so your question was probably not
> addressed to me. Sorry if I butted into a contest.
CAT = Cleveland Area Triadian.
Steve White
Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I remember Herb Score, and I quite remember the pitch that ended his
> career. I bet ye gave you a good interview.
He was. Great interview, especially for a greenhorn like me, which I was
at the time. We talked about twenty minutes one morning. He certainly
didn't have to do the interview. No pretense, just an honest, nice guy.
And he made the Indians sound interesting too, which was a real feat there
in the 70's. I remember going to the Stadium for a game, me and about
3,000 other hardy souls, sitting in the left field seats and catching the
lake breeze. We'd carry a small radio with us and listen to Herb call the
game. I'm sad they tore the Stadium down, but it was a cavern and never
really good for baseball.
I'd still kill for two ticks to the Jake.
Steve White
> ... Velveeta on Ritz crackers were served at the opening with
> Carling Black Label beer.
First time I was truly drunk and wasted was on Black Label. My, my, the
memories that are popping up ...
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
swh...@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Steve White) wrote:
It ended up okay, however, since I finally
> managed to interview Herb Score (ok CAT member, who is Herb Score -- 2
> bonus points for this one). He was a good guy.
>
> steve
Yes he was, as was Bob Feller. Herb Score pitched for the Tribe, was hit
between the eyes with a baseball, and was never the same.
Now, what was the name of Channel 5's dance show, the lame copy of American
Bandstand? And who was the host? Does anyone remember?
Markg91359
>Sorry, I forgot to induct you into the CAT cult. CATs are Cleveland Area
>Triadians. Our soul purpose is to support Cleveland culture and revive the
>good old days of Ghoulardi, Dorothy Fuldheim, Barnaby, Capt. Penny and Dick
>Goddard. E
Might as well rename this group alt.adoption.Cleveland.anticulture
"Though all the winds of evil and truth were loosed to do do battle with one
another, what of if? Whoever, knew truth the worst in a fair and open fight?"
....John Stuart Mills ( a paraphrase)
MarkG
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
--
I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I think
He likes Pearl Jam, too."
.....John Kasich
*****BASTARD NATION*****
www.bastards.org
Steve White <steve...@spammers.are.scum.com> wrote in article
<stevewhite-27...@d152-21.ce.mediaone.net>...
> In article <6pj4d8$2...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Marley Elizabeth
> Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > I remember Herb Score, and I quite remember the pitch that ended his
> > career. I bet ye gave you a good interview.
>
>
> He was. Great interview, especially for a greenhorn like me, which I was
> at the time. We talked about twenty minutes one morning. He certainly
> didn't have to do the interview. No pretense, just an honest, nice guy.
>
> And he made the Indians sound interesting too, which was a real feat
there
> in the 70's. I remember going to the Stadium for a game, me and about
> 3,000 other hardy souls, sitting in the left field seats and catching the
> lake breeze. We'd carry a small radio with us and listen to Herb call the
> game. I'm sad they tore the Stadium down, but it was a cavern and never
> really good for baseball.
I saw Ted Williams at the old Stadium when I was 10. I have no idea who
played for the Indians then, but it was certainly in the era of Bob Feller,
Larry Dobey, Mike Lopez, Al Garcia, and Lou Beaudreau. I also saw the
Beatles there in 1966.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Markg91359 <markg...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807280549...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Ah, Mark, have you not been to Clevelalnd. It's heaven--very much, IMO,
comparable to Helsinki.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35BD54...@onramp.net>...
> lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <swhite-2707...@pulm-mac2.bsd.uchicago.edu>,
> > swh...@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Steve White) wrote:
> >
> > It ended up okay, however, since I finally
> > > managed to interview Herb Score (ok CAT member, who is Herb Score --
2
> > > bonus points for this one). He was a good guy.
> > >
> > > steve
> >
> > Yes he was, as was Bob Feller. Herb Score pitched for the Tribe, was
hit
> > between the eyes with a baseball, and was never the same.
> >
> > Now, what was the name of Channel 5's dance show, the lame copy of
American
> > Bandstand? And who was the host? Does anyone remember?
The Big Five Show later changed to Upbeat. I loved that show. Where else
could you find Bob Seeger, Terry Knight and the Pack (the precursor to
Grand Funk), Jean-Paul Vignon, the Grasshoppers, and the Choir all on one
show? I assume this is what you mean--or are you going back really far
with the Phil McLean Show?
Marley
> >
> > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> > http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
>
> And what was Barnaby's Theme Music? And what was Barnaby's sidekick
> named?
>
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
"Marley Elizabeth Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> The Big Five Show later changed to Upbeat. I loved that show. Where else
> could you find Bob Seeger, Terry Knight and the Pack (the precursor to
> Grand Funk), Jean-Paul Vignon, the Grasshoppers, and the Choir all on one
> show? I assume this is what you mean--or are you going back really far
> with the Phil McLean Show?
>
> Marley
Hmmmm. I don't remember Phil McLean. But I loved watching Dick Webster. What
a man. He didn't seem to get much traffic from the performers in town who
were playing at LaCave (sp?), though. Of course, The Big Five Show had stiff
competition from "Polka Varieties", another one of my favorites, along with
the pinnacle of Cleveland avant guard, "The Gene Caroll Show". I think that
it's safe to say the Gene *was* the founder of performance art as we know it
today. But, then, that's just my humble opinion.
> > And what was Barnaby's Theme Music? And what was Barnaby's sidekick
> > named?
Gheez. Got me on that. Wasn't his side-kick that invisible bird? I really
preferred Capt. Penny to Barnaby. My viewing allegiance was usually with
channel 5.
NurseNell
> another one of my favorites, along with
> the pinnacle of Cleveland avant guard, "The Gene Caroll Show". I think that
> it's safe to say the Gene *was* the founder of performance art as we know it
> today. But, then, that's just my humble opinion.
Gene Carroll was also one of the original dead beat/absent fathers. He was
married to his 1st wife, had 3 children, then when he brought the Andrew
Sisters to Hollywood he decided to take up with one of them and so left
his wife and children. He never chose to see his kids again. He never had
any other children. He didn't marry any of the Andrew Sisters, instead he
married Sally Sage whose one and only movie I believe was Espionage Agent
(1939). Gene was from Chicago, his parents having come to Chicago from
England where'd they'd gone from Ireland. Gene tried to make it in
Hollywood before settling on Cleveland. The one and only movie he directed
was Air Mail Pilot (1928)
Anyway, as a father, and grandfather, Gene was a total failure. His 3rd
wife Helen jealously guarded him from any contact with his children and
grandchildren but Gene himself had turned his back on all of them long
before he met Helen. His younger daughter Kit went to Cleveland and was in
the audience once, she tried to see her father backstage, he refused to
see her. His irresponsibility as a father and the way he treated his own
children has had a profound effect on his 3 children (only one survives)
and his grandchildren. My DH was his first grandchild. Gene refused to
acknowledge him. When he graduated PhiBetaKappa from college he still
refused to acknowledge him. He was the first of Gene's
children/grandchildren to go to college. In my book, Gene Carroll was a
total failure in life because of the way he treated his own flesh and
blood. Nothing he did in Cleveland can ever atone for the way he treated
his family. And for that alone he may be mighty warm now that he's
departed this world.
His brother Albert, BTW, was an outstanding Shakesperean actor and also a
creator of NY Times crossword puzzles.
--
Elizabeth Carroll
American by birth, Irish by the grace of God
"A walk through the ocean of Jessica's soul would scarcely get your feet wet." Moses 1/4/1998
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <6pimhg$bv8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6pifh0$2tk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> the_...@buyamac.com wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is
our
> > child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again). Tina
and
> > steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
> > Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney on
> > acid.
> >
> > But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all of
> > the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
> > been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
> >
> > Love,
> > Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
> >
> > STAY SICK!
>
> From Mary Ellen's Barnyard:
>
> Hmmm. Now I'm totally confused. I just read a post from Jay on another
> thread,which said that Marcy is a "VICTIM". Now, if she's a victim, doesn't
> that make her a birthmother who suffers from PTSD and was probably coerced
> into being an adoption facilitator
Now, now - all birthmothers are victims, but not all victims are
birthmothers.
and an adoptive parent, which then must
> mean that she's married to Barnaby? Or does it mean that she's Dick Goddard's
> cousin?
Both. She's also having a secret affair with Joel Rose.
> And, that reminds me, I don't believe that you're married to Dick Goddard.
I'm not married to Dick Goddard. I'm married to Ghoulardi and Little Dickie
(oops, how unfortunate) is our son.
> Everyone *knows* that Dorothy Fuldheim has been secretly married to Captain
> Penny for years.
That's how rumors get started. Captian Penny is a closet homosexual (hence
the name "Penny") and is secretly involved with Don Webster.
I know for a fact that Tina is *not* having an affair with
> Steve, her heart has always belonged to Roy Rogers, and she hasn't been the
> same since his recent ride off into the sunset.
Wasn't he the guy who never met a man he didn't like? Maybe he was also
seeing Steve.
However, I do remember
> reading in a past issue of "Cleveland Magazine" that Steve was at one time
> romantically linked to Paige Palmer.
Steve was actually romantically linked to Trigger, but you didn't hear that
from me.
> And, by the way, I just attended a major retrospective of Mary Ellen's
> cartoons at MOMA.
Oh dear.
Eat your hearts out. Velveeta on Ritz crackers were served
> at the opening with Carling Black Label beer. Very classy affair.
I'll say. I can't believe they didn't serve any casseroles.
Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
STAY SICK!
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <6pinnf$n...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
"Marley Elizabeth Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> the_...@buyamac.com wrote in article <6pifh0$2tk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >
> >
snip
> > NO. no no no no NO!
> >
> > I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is
> our
> > child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again).
> Tina and
> > steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
> > Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney
> on
> > acid.
> >
> > But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all
> of
> > the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
> > been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
> >
> > Love,
> > Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
> >
> > STAY SICK!
>
> Where do the wooly-bears fit in?
Heh heh heh. The various answers running through my mind.... nah, too easy.
>
> I always knew that Dorothy and Ghoulardi were hiding something.
Have you seen the "Ghoulardi" book? There is a photograph of him playing
at a basketball game - he's wearing (oh what do you call those shirts they
wear to play basketball - jerseys?) anyway, he's wearing one of those that
says "I Love Dorothy". Wasn't that sweet? He always loved me.
Love,
Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
TURN BLUE!
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <35BD17...@onramp.net>,
mo...@onramp.net wrote:
> Mary Hunt-Scoville wrote:
> >
> > Queenie wrote:
> >
> > > I am Dorothy Fuldheim, and I am married to Ghouldardi. Dick Goddard is
> > our
> > > child. Tim is Laura's son and also her husband (GSA strikes again).
> > Tina and
> > > steve are having a secret affair and SCOM is their love child. Marley is
> > > Celesta when she's not being Marcy or Jessica. Veronica is Linda Fortney
> > on
> > > acid.
> > >
> > But Laura's first husband had an affair with Marcy and they had three other
> > children, Kellee, Jim and Me. Kellee actually used to be Jay, but then she
> > had the sex-change operation, and now posts under both names because
> > his/personality split due to the trauma of finding out that Tim wasn't
> > really her father. Laura's first husband was Ron's weiner-mobile driving
> > dad.
>
> No. MY first husband was Ron's wiener mobile driving dad. That was
> before you, my sweet.
Hey, settle down. There's plenty to go around.
> Jim had such a great adoption experience that he went on to become an
> > adopted father. I was the late suprise child and was relinquished to
> > Marley and Celesta, who used to live together as lesbian lovers. After
> > being raised with them, I ran away and had a 9-year affair with Barb before
> > meeting my true love, Robb Eurytes, who is currently in the process of
> > leaving his wife for me.
> >
>
> No, darling, he's not.... Come home? Rob's running around behind your
> back with Celeste and Marley on alternating nights, and jay on the
> weekend.
Celeste and Marley are going to adopt Rob and jay/Kellie. That way, they
can get that new tax break.
They all chase Wooley Bears nude in the woods and when they
> catch them, they use them to form a moustache for Dorothy Fuldheim that
> she can wear to be interviewed by Steve on the Ghoulardi show. Sometimes
> they flutter and tickle her nose.
Oooo, I just LOVE it when that happens. And STEVE, you Bad Boy - how come
you never showed up to interview me that day? I even wore an EXTRA SEXY
dress for you cut down to THERE. I also had a sack of really lively Wooly
Bears all ready....
>
> > > But the REAL secret is that DeerWatson is EVERYONE here, including all
> > of
> > > the people named above. She is currently residing in Parma, Ohio and has
> > > been spotted in Wal Mart buying cases and cases of white socks.
>
> With stripes on the top?
Absolutely. The tackier the better.
> > And stacks of blue polyester pants with elastic waistbands.
>
> Which come in handy after all that cheese whiz and beer.
BURP.
Oh pardon ME.
Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
STAY SICK!
> > Mary
>
> barb
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <6pj4kv$2...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
"Marley Elizabeth Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
snip
However, I do remember
> > >reading in a past issue of "Cleveland Magazine" that Steve was at one
> time
> > >romantically linked to Paige Palmer.
>
> who was a very hot item with Tom Haley before Barnaby stepped into the
> picture.
NOOOOOO! Not TOM HALEY!?!? Are you SERIOUS??
Is there a picture of this Paige woman somewhere on the 'net??
Dorothy Fuldheim Ghouldardi.
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
ecar...@pioneerplanet.infi.net (NurseNell) wrote:
. . .Nothing he did in Cleveland can ever atone for the way he treated
> his family. And for that alone he may be mighty warm now that he's
> departed this world.
Elizabeth,
His "mighty" career in Cleveland adds proof to the belief of one's kharma
coming around on the big wheel. If you'd ever seen his anemic show, you would
have known that what I wrote was in sarcasm. I'm sorry that it hit a sore
spot with you.
Autumn4492
Thanks for that interesting but heart breaking story. It's a shame that he did
not "Wake up and smell the coffee" prior to death.
It's nice to hear the other side of the story. Like always -- have a wonderful
week.
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
steve...@spammers.are.scum.com (Steve White) wrote:
> In article <6pjcg3$99s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > between the eyes with a baseball, and was never the same.
>
>
> steve
Barbara already posted that info. Of course you also know that Herb Score was
Rookie Of The Year in 1955, the same year he played in the All Star game. My
'50's Tribal knowledge was branded into my brain by my older brother, who
idolized the Tribe, and in particular, Bob Feller. I met Bob Feller a couple
of years ago, which was very exciting. It was kind of like meeting the Zeus
of Cleveland Sports. No, actually, that would probably be "Nap" Lajoie or,
perhaps, Tris Speaker.
Whatever happened to Rocky Colavito?
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
> But I loved watching Dick Webster.
The brain cells are dying faster than I thought. This is *so* embarrassing,
how could I have made such a mistake? It was DON (Original Cool Guy)
Webster!!
Sorry.
Elizabeth J. Greiner
lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<6pl088$5oq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <6pkfco$i8s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
> > But I loved watching Dick Webster.
>
> The brain cells are dying faster than I thought. This is *so*
embarrassing,
> how could I have made such a mistake? It was DON (Original Cool Guy)
> Webster!!
>
> Sorry.
I believe it is Don. Last I saw him he was doing the weather.
Marley
Elizabeth J. Greiner
--
I
>
> Have you seen the "Ghoulardi" book?
I'm waiting for it to be delivered now.
There is a photograph of him playing
> at a basketball game - he's wearing (oh what do you call those shirts
they
> wear to play basketball - jerseys?) anyway, he's wearing one of those
that
> says "I Love Dorothy". Wasn't that sweet? He always loved me.
I am so happy, Mrs. Ghoulardi, that Mr. G came out. I'm sure it's soothed
your wracked and wretched heart to be able to look at that picture and know
that your beloved, at least once, acknowledged you as the love of his life.
His little boom boom games were simply his way of acting out his
discomfort with the love that has no name.
By all means necessasry,
Marley
>
> Love,
>
> Dorothy Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
>
> TURN BLUE!
>
>
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <6pl088$5oq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6pkfco$i8s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > But I loved watching Dick Webster.
>
> The brain cells are dying faster than I thought. This is *so* embarrassing,
> how could I have made such a mistake? It was DON (Original Cool Guy)
> Webster!!
You mean the weatherman??? "Original Cool Guy"??? The WEATHERMAN???
Yikes.
> Sorry.
Me too.
THE WEATHERMAN???
Elizabeth J. Greiner
the details, but not at such length before. Thanks for posting this. And
I find it very curious that some he gave some of his proteges, such as
Andrea Carroll his last name. What in the world was that about?
Marley
NurseNell <ecar...@pioneerplanet.infi.net> wrote in article
<ecarroll-280...@dcp2-10.msp.infi.net>...
> In article <6pkfco$i8s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, lyd...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
> blood. Nothing he did in Cleveland can ever atone for the way he treated
> his family. And for that alone he may be mighty warm now that he's
> departed this world.
>
Elizabeth J. Greiner
--
lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<6pkfco$i8s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <6pjr1p$d...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Marley Elizabeth Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> > The Big Five Show later changed to Upbeat. I loved that show. Where
else
> > could you find Bob Seeger, Terry Knight and the Pack (the precursor to
> > Grand Funk), Jean-Paul Vignon, the Grasshoppers, and the Choir all on
one
> > show? I assume this is what you mean--or are you going back really
far
> > with the Phil McLean Show?
> >
> > Marley
>
>
> Hmmmm. I don't remember Phil McLean.
Actually, I think that Phil McLean was on WJW (or the call letters before
it became WJW). It was on Saturday afternoons around 1 PM I think, and
pretty much like Bandstand. It was, however, on Cleveland TV way before
Bandstand was on the scene. I was watching it, I think, around 1955. Phil
had a co-host, but I can't think of her name. Arlene something maybe. One
of thet more annoying segments was a lip-schync contest. (Remebmer Lloyd
Thaxton 10 years later--ack!)
But I loved watching Dick Webster. What
> a man. He didn't seem to get much traffic from the performers in town who
> were playing at LaCave (sp?), though. Of course, The Big Five Show had
stiff
> competition from "Polka Varieties", another one of my favorites, along
with
> the pinnacle of Cleveland avant guard, "The Gene Caroll Show". I think
that
> it's safe to say the Gene *was* the founder of performance art as we know
it
> today. But, then, that's just my humble opinion.
I only came to appreciate Polka Varieties much only later in life. When I
worked in trucking, I used to drive people away by regularly listening to
the Polka Town show on WZAC every afternoon and learned about the
difference between Slovenian polkas and Polish polkas, the buttonbox
accoardian, women's polka bands, polka masses and Doc Laucshe. "I'm packing
my bags I'll soon be leaving. I'm going to Polka Town.
It never occured to me that The Gene Carroll Show was performance art, but
you're correct.
>
>
> > > And what was Barnaby's Theme Music? And what was Barnaby's sidekick
> > > named?
Don't remember those. When I as in high school my boyfriend got stuck
going on a family outing to Channel 3 and reported back that the Barnady
set was absolutely hideous
I think I pre-date you Lyddie. I have a quite clear memory of Gene
Sheldon, in his pre-Barnaby days being on a Channel 5 Show hosted by Bob
Dale, whispering into a pop bottle and getting an echo back.
Is it any wonder that so much talent later came out of Cleveland?
Marley
PS No body has mentioned Tim Conways partnership with Ghoulardi. They did
a bang-up Omar's Bakery commercial once with a talking loaf of bread.
Tbunny
Morra wrote in message <35BDFA...@onramp.net>...
>the_...@buyamac.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In article <35BD17...@onramp.net>,
>> mo...@onramp.net wrote:
>> > Mary Hunt-Scoville wrote:
>> > > But Laura's first husband had an affair with Marcy and they had three
other
>> > > children, Kellee, Jim and Me. Kellee actually used to be Jay, but
then she
>> > > had the sex-change operation, and now posts under both names because
>> > > his/personality split due to the trauma of finding out that Tim
wasn't
>> > > really her father. Laura's first husband was Ron's weiner-mobile
driving
>> > > dad.
ROTFLMAO & PIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I know why I always get confused when choosing a public restroom!!!! And
why I have the strange predilection for sleeping with women!! I am going to
sign off now and contact the Jerry Springer Show so I can get on there and
bitch-slap myself! Would anyone else care to join me? We could make a
weekend of it up there in the Windy City.
This is the best laugh I've had in a while! And I even went to see "There's
Something About Mary" this weekend. Which, BTW, is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!! I
highly recommend it, but not for the easily offended. Definitely not for the
PC among us, if there are any!
BTW, who actually wrote this? I want to know who my other sibling is besides
Jim. There are some presents to be caught up on! Sounds like a family
reunion is in order. Perhaps we can all get together someday.
Kellee Peters, Proud Bastard & MOB-ster
http://home.fuse.net/bkpeters
"If the Good Lord had meant for us to have chain letters, he would have sent
the Ten Commandments to 20 of His friends"
--Chuck Barris
the_...@buyamac.com
Hi,
In article <01bdba51$97984ce0$e0d0430c@default>,
"Elizabeth J. Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> --
> I
> >
> > Have you seen the "Ghoulardi" book?
>
> I'm waiting for it to be delivered now.
Anticipation is half the fun.
> There is a photograph of him playing
> > at a basketball game - he's wearing (oh what do you call those shirts
> they
> > wear to play basketball - jerseys?) anyway, he's wearing one of those
> that
> > says "I Love Dorothy". Wasn't that sweet? He always loved me.
>
> I am so happy, Mrs. Ghoulardi, that Mr. G came out. I'm sure it's soothed
> your wracked and wretched heart to be able to look at that picture and know
> that your beloved, at least once, acknowledged you as the love of his life.
> His little boom boom games were simply his way of acting out his
> discomfort with the love that has no name.
Admit it - you always suspected, didn't you?
Love,
Dorothy "Boom Boom" Fuldheim Ghoulardi.
Elizabeth J. Greiner
the_...@buyamac.com wrote in article <6ple5a$ucp$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
> Hi,
>
> In article <01bdba51$97984ce0$e0d0430c@default>,
> "Elizabeth J. Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > --
> > I
> > >
> > > Have you seen the "Ghoulardi" book?
> >
> > I'm waiting for it to be delivered now.
>
> Anticipation is half the fun.
Yes it is, and it arrived this afternoon. I've only looked at the pictures
so far. I enjoyed the picture of you with Smoochie Gordon. Ah! What
memories! I do realize however, that that was just a publicity shot. Your
heart lay elsewhere.
> > There is a photograph of him playing
> > > at a basketball game - he's wearing (oh what do you call those shirts
> > they
> > > wear to play basketball - jerseys?) anyway, he's wearing one of those
> > that
> > > says "I Love Dorothy". Wasn't that sweet? He always loved me.
> >
> > I am so happy, Mrs. Ghoulardi, that Mr. G came out. I'm sure it's
soothed
> > your wracked and wretched heart to be able to look at that picture and
know
> > that your beloved, at least once, acknowledged you as the love of his
life.
> > His little boom boom games were simply his way of acting out his
> > discomfort with the love that has no name.
>
> Admit it - you always suspected, didn't you?
Yes, I did, and I am so happy that now, even at this late date, that it is
now out in the open. I suppose you feel much better now.
Your pal,
Marley
NurseNell
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Hi Elizabeth--I was aware of your "relation" to Gene Carroll, and some of
> the details, but not at such length before. Thanks for posting this. And
> I find it very curious that some he gave some of his proteges, such as
> Andrea Carroll his last name. What in the world was that about?
It's my understanding he allowed a few proteges to use his last name. It
was most likely a business relationship, anything for a buck, he probably
always hoped one of them would make it to the big time and he could live
through that person. There was never any adoptions and I don't know if the
name changes were done legally in court or not. He cared for only himself.
--
Elizabeth
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
> It's my understanding he allowed a few proteges to use his last name. It
> was most likely a business relationship, anything for a buck, he probably
> always hoped one of them would make it to the big time and he could live
> through that person.
Well, Andrea must have been a disappointment! I didn't think there were
any adoptions involved--just a weird ego thing. I must admit that he was
not my favorite TV personalty. I think I used to have an Uncle Jake
button, but it's not in my collection. Such a cold-hearted SOB, with such
a "good" reputation.
Steve White
> ... another one of my favorites, along with the pinnacle of
> Cleveland avant guard, "The Gene Caroll Show". I think that
> it's safe to say the Gene *was* the founder of performance art
> as we know it today.
I remember that show well, though I must disagree with its importance!
steve
Reply to: stevewhite at ce dot mediaone dot net
Steve White
> Whatever happened to Rocky Colavito?
Traded to Detroit in '60 (a trade that was as dumb for the Indians as
trading Lou Brock was for the Cubs), and then (after he was used up)
traded back to the Indians in '63 or '64. Out of baseball shortly after
that. I'd have to pull my Baseball Encyclopedia to double-check the dates.
Steve White
> Oooo, I just LOVE it when that happens. And STEVE, you Bad Boy - how come
> you never showed up to interview me that day? I even wore an EXTRA SEXY
> dress for you cut down to THERE. I also had a sack of really lively Wooly
> Bears all ready....
At that stage of my life, I'd have mistaken them for gummy bears ;-)
steve (kinda clueless at 16)
Steve White
> Gene Carroll was also one of the original dead beat/absent fathers.
[ rest snipped ]
Whoa. I didn't know anything about this. Thanks for sharing it, though it
must be painful.
I do remember the show. It was another one of those uniquely Cleveland
things. I'm trying to remember when it finally ended and why. Anyone know?
steve
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
steve...@spammers.are.scum.com (Steve White) wrote:
> In article <6pkfco$i8s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > ... another one of my favorites, along with the pinnacle of
> > Cleveland avant guard, "The Gene Caroll Show". I think that
> > it's safe to say the Gene *was* the founder of performance art
> > as we know it today.
>
> I remember that show well, though I must disagree with its importance!
>
Sorry, I made the incorrect assumption that anyone who had seen this show
would know that I was not seriously saying that Gene was the founder of
performance art. Barbara, don't you think the art historians attribute that
title to the dada movement? Anyhow, we used to watch that show for laughs,
along with "Polka Varieties", another spectacular Cleveland Cultural
Contribution.
Oops, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone by slurring "Polka
Varieties".
lyd...@my-dejanews.com
steve...@spammers.are.scum.com (Steve White) wrote:
I left the North Coast in the early seventies, and I don't remember it still
being on when I left. My guess is that it went off the air because it was so
bad!!! :o)
NurseNell
steve...@spammers.are.scum.com (Steve White) wrote:
> I'm trying to remember when it finally ended and why. Anyone know?
Gene Carroll died in March, 1972. He was on vacation at his winter home in
FL but had taped the shows in advance so they were still being aired right
up to his death.
--
Elizabeth, American by birth, Irish by the grace of God
NurseNell
> I left the North Coast in the early seventies, and I don't remember it still
> being on when I left. My guess is that it went off the air because it was so
> bad!!! :o)
Depending on how you define early 70's it was probably still on when you
left. And it may have been bad but it went off the air because Gene
Carroll died. He died in March, 1972 and the show was still being aired at
that time.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C0D5...@onramp.net>...
> lyd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Barbara, don't you think the art historians attribute that
> > title to the dada movement? Anyhow, we used to watch that show for
laughs,
> > along with "Polka Varieties", another spectacular Cleveland Cultural
> > Contribution.
> >
>
>
>
> The relationship of performance art to dada?
> from a common sense point of view they look related, don't they? you
> are thinking perhaps of that dada art opening ( was it the Golden
> Section in Paris in 1912?) where the show guests were greeted by a
> dwarf who was both wearing a first communion dress and swearing vile
> curses ?
> pop art of course is a direct descendent of dada, and pop had
> something to do with the development of performance art.
> i think what an art historian might say though, is that dada was a
> response to the first world war and emphasized irrationality and
> intuition above all else.
Like Expressionism. Barb, why is Modernism much more fun than
Post-Modernism? At least imo, but then I think the world ended in 1965.
> otoh, performance art was a response to the exclusivity and formality
> of modernism and especially minimalism. exclusivity i think might be the
> key here, as pop tried to be more inclusive, and that's one thing
> performance art stresses. the other thing perforance art stresses is the
> breaking of the traditional boundaries of art, especially as embodied
> in modernism. anything can become fuel for the artwork. this may have
> been part duchamp's and dada's influence - look at the readymades.
Hmmm. I have an Annie Sprinkle tape. She certainly invites the audience
into ....her......er.....personal space.
Now here is the big question--why do the same people who defend Annie
Sprinkle's art get upset over the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue?
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C113...@onramp.net>...
> The distortions of Expressionism are still tied to the painter's
> perceptions--- his or her subjective reality. dada relies heavily on
> chance.
Yeah, but I'm thinking about how it ties in politically. The prime example
is The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, which is definitely a statement about the
upheaval the First World War caused--especially in Germany--where previous
values and culture were swept away. Belief in G-d and authority, for
instance; the destruction of monarchies throughtout Europe, political
assasinations on both sides (from the Romanovs in Russia to Rosa Luxumberg,
et al); the rise of Bolshevism and the Nazi Party, once hand-in-hand, then
the break; the rise of psychoanalysis, sexual liberation, decadence. While
Expressionism is definitely a subjective view,the artist's perceptions seem
to me to be tied to the political culture surrounding her or him.
> I don't know about Modernism. God knows I love Rothko. He should have
> been mine!!!!!!!!!!MINE!!!!!!!
> I'm a little surprised to hear that you think Modernism was more fun
> than Post Modernism. You strike me as a definite post modernist in most
> arenas.
> Why so conservative about art?
I'm looking at POMO in terms of literary criticism, which has subsumed
politics on the left and rendered it totally useless. (Along with the
pablum sucking liberals). Foucault has some interesting things to say
regarding history and the culture of domination, but all in all I find this
intellectual masturbation. I'm not real up on art per se, though. It's
sort of strange; I'm a literary realist, yet a cinematic expressionist and
naturalist. (though I do like Robbe-Grillet) Just saw the John
Frankenheimer film "Seconds" last night. Frankly, I'd never heard of it.
It was a bomb at the time, but is a cult classic now. Some interesting
adoption themes in the abstract, and it made perfect sense to me.
Naturalism and Expressionism are Realism on bad acid. (Or good acid
depending on your taste.)
I find a lot of POMO art pretensious and show-offy I've seen stuff at the
Wexner Center that makes no sense whatsoever. One comes to mind: a guy
spent 45 minutes on this round, blood covered plastic mat with pockets in
it. Some of these pockets had letters he had written to Nathaniel
Hawthorne and he read them to the audience. Other pockets were empty,
which was suppose to symbolize something. This was supposed to be a
statement about AIDS. This guy had way too much time on his hands, and
nobody knew what he was talking about.
There's this other guy in town, the notorious Damon Zex who has a show on
access where he shouts fuck at everybody for 30 minutes.. I knew him when
he was Fred and into pyramid power. One day at a poetry reading I was
doing, Chris Anarchist and I, along with the drummer from Scrawl decided to
do a counter oblesk power demo while Fred was showing off. We marched in
and threw pennies at the audience and rang sleighbells. People thought
this was art and Fred got pissed at us for spoiling his act.
> >
> > Hmmm. I have an Annie Sprinkle tape. She certainly invites the
audience
> > into ....her......er.....personal space.
>
>
> cervixally!
> >
> > Now here is the big question--why do the same people who defend Annie
> > Sprinkle's art get upset over the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue?
> >
> > Marley
> >
> > -
> 1) Because Anya writes her own life script. She defines herself instead
> of society defining her. 2) The locus of Anya's power is within her own
> body ;-) and is controlled by her.
>
> Can Kathy Ireland say that?
Well, I don't know. Nobody forces Kathy Ireland to be a model. I think
she's defining herself, too. Anya maybe could pick up some extra money at
a teaching hospital. BTW, I once talked to Karen Finnely on the phone, and
she sounded normal.
All in all, I like thing that look like something I can concretely relate
to. I think the 90's suck and we should all go back to the 1920s or 1950s
which is my favorite decade.
By all means necessary,
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C16E...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
>
> Quite right. First wave of Expressionism was in fact partly fueled by
> the social and political climate in Germany. There were art history
> reasons as well.They wanted to break withthe old academic order.The same
> thing was going on in France.
Right. Klimt comes to mind, all that fin de siecle (sp?) comes to mind.
Did Klimt (I know I"m spelling that wrong, too!) and Freud hang out in
coffee houses together? Freud's checkered history see has been revised for
popular consumption, but I think the original Ziggy is much more
interesting that the older, respected herr doktor.
I do think that the political and social
> climate was the context in which such revolutinary thought could
> occur.In other words, at this point, the art world was faithfully
> reflecting the political and social chaos around it.
Right.
> Der Bruke, especially Kirschner and Schmidt-Rotluff defined themselves
> more by what they were against than what they were for. Der Blaue Reiter
> was a more art orientd group with a more proactive outlook- defining the
> new aesthetic rather than reacting against it.
Hmm. I'm trying to think whom that could be compared against today, and
can't. I"m not up on contemporary art, which to me, seems all over the map
now.
> The Cabinet of Dr.Caligari is a fine example of German expressionism,
> as well as being arguably the first expressionistic movie.
>
> >
> > I'm looking at POMO in terms of literary criticism, which has subsumed
> > politics on the left and rendered it totally useless. (Along with the
> > pablum sucking liberals).
>
> thank you.
Perhaps Monica's dress could be exhibted at the Wexner Center's upcoming
show on Presidedntial Penises curated by Judith Campbell Exner?
>
> did you know that dada started as essentially a literary movement?
> around 1912, zurich dada really coalesced around tristan tzara, who was
> a poet, hugo ball ,a writer, richard huelsenbeck, a writer, arthur
> rimbaud, a poet, and believe it or not, guillaume apolinaire. tp was
> there and a sculptor; but it wasn't till picabia showed up that the
> visual end started going.
> picabia and duchamp carried dada to new york, tzara to paris and>
huelsebeck to berlin.
> dada burned out about 1920
Tzara is very big with my Russian artist friends and punks, though their
work is more structured.
> I'm not real up on art per se, though. It's
> > sort of strange; I'm a literary realist, yet a cinematic expressionist
and
> > naturalist.
>
>
> well, realist and naturalist are not that far off one another. perhaps
> the taste for expressionism is providing some kind of compensation in
> what you "ingest".
Well, I sort of see realism and expressionism as the same thing, just
different aspects. While we may live in a surrealistic world (and I like
surrealism), expressionist interpretation--and actual vision, is rather
common for me. I walk a lot, and way before MTV, I was making music videos
from my surroundings. Things are always out of whack while I'm walking.
Nothing is as it seems.
> i personally prefer surrealist films- fellinni, cronenberg,
Ah, "Crash" It certainly gives a different view of traffic accidents.
Right after I saw the movie there was this 7-car crash on I71. Obviously
an orgy.
lynch.
Yummy.
A friend of mine--and an adoptee (to keep things on topic) freaked out at
Blue Velvet and thought he was back in Middletown, Ohio, and had to leave
the theatre. Have you ever been to Middletown?
>
> > I find a lot of POMO art pretensious and show-offy I've seen stuff at
the
> > Wexner Center that makes no sense whatsoever.
>
>
> including the wexner center?
You got it. I knew the original assistant director, and he hated the
place. His office was over on High Street, so he didn't have to go in the
WC much himself, but when he did he got terrible dizzy spells and
headaches. He's in Florida now. Before the Center opened, our ATD took me
over for a personal tour. In one of the performance spaces there were like
101 reel-to-reel tape decks, each one set a second or so apart, saying the
same thing. There was also a set of chairs so you could sit down and
"listen" at your leisure. Perfect for schzoids and paranoids.
> geez, i walked through there and nearly fell over.
> what did you think of the artist in residences' long tunnels extending
> out from the wexner center?
I've heard stories where visiting artists and performers can't figiure out
how to get in the building.
> what about that crushed glass sculpture?
Don't know that one. There were, however, clumps of artistic dirt that
Groundskeeping once hauled away.
> could it be more nihilistic?
> oh! and that tower that's not attached?
It's representative of the old OSU Arsenal. Can't you tell that the Wexner
is a sentimiental piece of history?
> and that field of weeds?
Prairie grass, my dear. It's supposed to represent the midwest,
but....prairie grass is not found in Ohio.
>
>
> :-S
>
>
> One comes to mind: a guy
> > spent 45 minutes on this round, blood covered plastic mat with pockets
in
> > it. Some of these pockets had letters he had written to Nathaniel
> > Hawthorne and he read them to the audience. Other pockets were empty,
> > which was suppose to symbolize something. This was supposed to be a
> > statement about AIDS. This guy had way too much time on his hands, and
> > nobody knew what he was talking about.
>
> did he write a statement? to tell you all what he was talking about?
Gotta go! I have to haul some gutters away.
marley
>
>
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C22D...@onramp.net>...
> dunno! maybe. klimt's work certainly has a mysoginistic element, as
> beautiful as it is. all those femme fatales looking as though they have
> just been lobotomized.
Maybe they were. Dr. Freud's patients.
> ya know, i do remember this...that some sort of a russian thinker or
> writer or philosopher whatchamacallit thingee kind of guy hung out in
> the Cabaret Voltaire in Zurich with the dada group. his name
> was...um...er.....had 'Ilyich' in it. ya know who i'm talkin' about
> ????;-)
Not, not OUR Ilych! When he was a young exile in Siberia one of is
favorite pasttimes was to hang by his feet from a trapezee he hooked up on
a tree. Does this explain it all?
Ever read Pogoli (sp again?) He theorized that Hitler was actually a
minimalist. I'm sure the Fueher would be insulted being an admirer of the
Academy.
>
> Freud's checkered history see has been revised for
> > popular consumption, but I think the original Ziggy is much more
> > interesting that the older, respected herr doktor.
>
>
> you mean the part about the cocaine and the way he hated his mother?
In part, but he was basically a shyster, a snake oil salesman. Get rich
quick schemes. Guess he hit the jackpot.
>
> >
> > > Der Bruke, especially Kirschner and Schmidt-Rotluff defined
themselves
> > > more by what they were against than what they were for. Der Blaue
Reiter
> > > was a more art orientd group with a more proactive outlook- defining
the
> > > new aesthetic rather than reacting against it.
> >
> > Hmm. I'm trying to think whom that could be compared against today,
and
> > can't. I"m not up on contemporary art, which to me, seems all over the
map
> > now.
>
>
> it is all over the map. it's inclusive in the extreme. American art in
> this century was like a snowball rolling down a hill, getting bigger and
> bigger. Cubism, Fauvism, Orphism, Constructivism,Suprematism< Futurism,
> dada were all rolling together, and sort of culminated in Abstract
> Expressionism. This style , BTW tended to be Platonic, and emphasized
> the one, the unity, the entity, the transcendant, etcetcetc. A little
> after mid century, this snowball ran into a tree so to speak and split
> up into myriad "isms", and is today , all over the map.
Ah! Thanks for the explanation. I was beginning to feel bourgie.
>
>
>
> I suppose there are always going to be reactionaries in art.
I think that's me. I like bronze doors and Carrvaggio. And the
pre-Raphaelites. Then I'm also a 19th century decadent. Bring on Byron!
Bring on Pater!
> Some POMO can be considered that I guess...the "don't let your art look
> like art crowd" are reacting against modernism. other pomo art is in
> search of a new aesthetic, though. the basic procedure is to take old
> styles and hybridize them, synthesizing something new. there are many
> artists who are striving for a new aesthetic, in other ways, though .
> Pipilotti Rist, Liza Lou, Sarah Charlesworth come to mind. then there
> are the boundary crossers, of which i am one. these people deal with
> issues of mainstream v margin, center v. periphery, majority v
> minority, and/or the boundaries between painting, sculpture,
> photography. my mfa exhibition is entitled "the painted boundary" and
> deals with many of the above issues.
> so there are artists striving to define a new aesthetic.
Oh, Barb, you always cross boundaries. That's how you get into trouble.
Tsk tsk. Blame it on Ghoulardi.
> >
> > > The Cabinet of Dr.Caligari is a fine example of German
expressionism,
> > > as well as being arguably the first expressionistic movie.
>
> >
> > Perhaps Monica's dress could be exhibted at the Wexner Center's
upcoming
> > show on Presidedntial Penises curated by Judith Campbell Exner?
> > >
>
> everyone's talking about that dress. what should monica's dress
> display be titled?
Hmmm. I don't know. "The President Cometh?" "My Dinner with Bill?"
> >
> > Tzara is very big with my Russian artist friends and punks, though
their
> > work is more structured.
>
>
> tzara was really anti- structure. that's practically the whole thing.
> let chance do it.
That's what I thought, too. Let's say they live Tzaran lives, but there
art is more hmmmm perverted.
> > Well, I sort of see realism and expressionism as the same thing, just
> > different aspects. While we may live in a surrealistic world (and I
like
> > surrealism), expressionist interpretation--and actual vision, is rather
> > common for me.
>
>
>
> surrealism is the most long lived art movement of the century, in the
> opinion of many learned people
I believe that.
>
>
> I walk a lot, and way before MTV, I was making music videos
> > from my surroundings. Things are always out of whack while I'm
walking.
> > Nothing is as it seems.
>
>
> an adoption issue? ;-)
Yeah, I hadn't thought of that.
> >
>
> > i personally prefer surrealist films- fellinni, cronenberg,
> >
> > Ah, "Crash" It certainly gives a different view of traffic accidents.
> > Right after I saw the movie there was this 7-car crash on I71.
Obviously
> > an orgy.
>
>
> naked lunch. i wrote a paper on why naked lunch should be classified as
> film noir.
How did that go over?
> >
> > lynch.
> >
> > Yummy.
>
>
> eraserhead. say no more.
> >
> > A friend of mine--and an adoptee (to keep things on topic) freaked out
at
> > Blue Velvet and thought he was back in Middletown, Ohio, and had to
leave
> > the theatre. Have you ever been to Middletown?
>
>
> no. do they have candy colored clowns there?
No, but it's the home of ARMCO Steel. Same thing.
>
> it's down in a pit along one of the sides of the building. it's blue
> green.
> >
> > Don't know that one. There were, however, clumps of artistic dirt that
> > Groundskeeping once hauled away.
>
>
> we had that happen on campus too. a campus wide installation of ceramic
> work that represented bombed out buildings and general apocalyptic type
> landscapes was removed by the grounds crew.
Oh and there was another installation. A bunch of 2 x 4s nailed together,
rather sloppily at that, that was supposed to look like a half-finished
kiosk. My interpretation, that is.
One time a friend of mine who has a gallery his beauty shop got this woman
to do a show. She'd gotten great reviews for other things, and he was
really happy to get her. Until he saw her show--which consisted of several
hundred stray gloves that she'd been collecting for 10 years. You know,
gloves and mittens you find in the street. She nailed them to them to his
wall (gee, thanks!) . The finishing touch was a small pile of dust and
floor trash left on the floor along with the dustpan and broom. He thought
she's left it there, swept it up and threw it out. Oh oh! That was the
ponit of the show! Even the most of indulgent of critics thought this was
a crock.
> >
> > Prairie grass, my dear. It's supposed to represent the midwest,
> > but....prairie grass is not found in Ohio.
>
> weeds are, i guess. i thought it was something like
> native...weeds.....
It's also been pointed out that the weeds and the long entrance way is a
perfect place for unpleasant encounters late at night. Some call it Rape
Alley.
Jackie C
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C22D...@onramp.net>...
>> dunno! maybe. klimt's work certainly has a mysoginistic element, as
>> beautiful as it is. all those femme fatales looking as though they have
>> just been lobotomized.
>
>Maybe they were. Dr. Freud's patients.
Egon Shiele.. who was a friend of Klimpt.. would get the homeless
girls from the gutter and do some amazing watercolors/gouache.. of
them..
Shiele did porn drawings.. His mistress Wally.. and she was Klimpt's
mistress also, delivered the porn drawings. ..Shiele went to jail for
doing said porn drawings..<s>
But what I find interesting is that he dropped Wally and married for
his parents sake.. or societies sake.. "Death and Maiden" is an
amazing painting.. showing the farewell embrace of he and Wally.
From a Chronology of Shiele.. "1907 Shiele meets Gustav Klimpt and
remains his friend till the elder artist's death."
Barb said that she thought Klimpts women looked like they had a
lobotomy.. I find that interesting.. Shiele's women.. wow were they
real..
Jackie C
Jackie C
> I think the objectificationof women is plain to see in Klimt's work,
>and yur research would seem to bolster that idea.
> the paintings themselves are things of beauty and awe, and people lose
>the subtext...maybe it's all that gold paint!
I saw a portrait of a pregnant woman he did in Ottawa.. I saw
pointillism on her belly Barb..<s>
The painting by Klimpt.."The Three Ages of Women." 1905.
My daughter gave me a framed print for xmas..Part of the painting..
The part with the woman and child..the old woman was taken out of the
print..
But this applies to alt.adoption.. She and I had been talking about my
bson.. And I know this picture was her saying I see you mom..
I think all those guys objectifyed women..<s>
I know Degas did not like women.. He painted them.. But the dance
master was always the main character..
Now my hero.. is Artemisia Gentileschi..
From the Caraviaggio... And this again applies to my issues around my
bson.. Women at that time.. If they were women of property, and she
was, were raped and spoiled.. So the fellow that raped a woman in that
time would have to marry her and or get her money..
But I think with Artemisia was left at the alter.. Only she was a
fighter.. There was a rape trial...1612.
Orazio Gentileschi brought the rapist Agostino Tassi to trial..
Artemisia said at the trial that the man promised to marry her..etc..
She ended up being married to another, who she never lived with..
She was spoilt goods..that being the bottom line.
But my point is that she became an amazing painter.. "Susanna and the
Elders" being one of them.. Shows a woman on the bottom of the
picture, half naked..Men, like judges over her.. her arms are up in
defense..
Ohhh that takes me to my issues from /65.. My being caught in the
maelstrom of being pregnant.. and not able to go to the fellow I am
pretty sure is the bfather..cause of the builder, the spanner in the
works..
A lot of Gentileschi's paintings are not attributed to her..<s>
I find that very interesting too.
Jackie C
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Jackie C <ja...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
<35c4697b...@news.newsguy.com>...
> On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 13:00:33 -0500, Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote:
>
> > I think the objectificationof women is plain to see in Klimt's work,
> >and yur research would seem to bolster that idea.
> > the paintings themselves are things of beauty and awe, and people lose
> >the subtext...maybe it's all that gold paint!
>
> I saw a portrait of a pregnant woman he did in Ottawa.. I saw
> pointillism on her belly Barb..<s>
>
> The painting by Klimpt.."The Three Ages of Women." 1905.
> My daughter gave me a framed print for xmas..Part of the painting..
> The part with the woman and child..the old woman was taken out of the
> print..
> But this applies to alt.adoption.. She and I had been talking about my
> bson.. And I know this picture was her saying I see you mom..
>
> I think all those guys objectifyed women..<s>
But isn't all art objectification> The eye is the hallmark of western
culture.
>
> I know Degas did not like women.. He painted them.. But the dance
> master was always the main character..
And he was blind, too. All those ballet dancers. Ack!
By all means necesasry,
Marley
Veronica22
> master was always the main character..
And he was blind, too. All those ballet dancers. Ack!
***
Degas was interesting in that he did not paint from life models. He had entree
to back stage, and committed his views and perspectives on canvas later, as he
recalled. He went home later and painted from memory.
I love how he does "tulle."
Veronica
"You cannot want a child and be open and honest" -- Marcy5000, Chosen Child
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
--
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C3D4...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
>
> >
> > But isn't all art objectification> The eye is the hallmark of western
> > culture.
> it was. but to bring it back around to anya, isn't one of the points of
> her work, that she doesn't allow you to objectify?
But what's the fun then? I frankly find her work pornographic. That's
doesn't mean it's wrong, bit I think she objectifies herself, which may be
something all together different. I don't know. I'm not an artist, art
critic, or art historian.
Ron Morgan
>Degas was interesting in that he did not paint from life models. He had entree
>to back stage, and committed his views and perspectives on canvas later, as he
>recalled. He went home later and painted from memory.
>
>I love how he does "tulle."
The museum here used to have one of his littles bronzes with *real*
tulle tutus. I think it went missing. The San Francisco museums have a
terrible reputation for losing art...
Ron
Jackie C
>Degas was interesting in that he did not paint from life models. He had entree
>to back stage, and committed his views and perspectives on canvas later, as he
>recalled. He went home later and painted from memory.
>
>I love how he does "tulle."
And he used to argue with Monet.. about it..
Then when you look at Monet's work..
Jackie C
Jackie C
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> I think all those guys objectifyed women..<s>
>
>But isn't all art objectification> The eye is the hallmark of western
>culture.
Interesting.. As I have a few paintings in the works.. and need to get
back to them..
There was a layover in Chicago.. the train was nine hours late.. Going
out west.. I saw Georgia O'Keefe's.. mountains.. In the Art
Institute.. I saw O'Keefe's.. paintings of them..
I always thought art to me my interpretation of the world I see..
Food for thought..
Jackie C
Jackie C
> i can see why you relate, jackie. as far as attribution, we have to
>remember the istory books are written by the WINNERS.
Finally we have gotten this subject of art.. back on topic for
alt.adoption.. yay..
Jackie C
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
> On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 21:50:06 -0500, Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote:
>
> > i can see why you relate, jackie. as far as attribution, we have to
> >remember the istory books are written by the WINNERS.
Well, I'm not so sure of that now. Ethnic history broke the mold, then
Black History, Chicano History, Women's History, Queer History. and
popular culture has been very important to the discipline. My own field,
basically social deviance, has been big in women's and queer history, and
maybe business history among others. A few years ago I did a book review
on the history of garbage in amerika. Biography is making a comeback now
as well as narrative history (thank G-d!), but conceptional history, post
structuralism, still rules. I personally think, however, that the field
has opened up greatly.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C49B...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
> >
> > Jackie C <ja...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
> > <35c96fb2...@news.newsguy.com>...
> > > On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 21:50:06 -0500, Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > i can see why you relate, jackie. as far as attribution, we have
to
> > > >remember the istory books are written by the WINNERS.
> >
> > Well, I'm not so sure of that now. Ethnic history broke the mold, then
> > Black History, Chicano History, Women's History, Queer History. and
> > popular culture has been very important to the discipline.
>
>
> artemesia will get her due as a painter and a woman.
> i wonder what you think the effect the ineternet will be on the way
> history is written? any effect? none?
I don't see the 'net making a lot of difference (at least at the present
time) in how history is written. Just because something is on the 'net
doesn't mean that it's true. And most stuff isn't on the 'net. Of course,
one can find sources, but you still have to go to those sources in person.
Websites can also be used to stir intellectual curiosity, start discussions
in class, and can be a very useful source of generalized information . I
know, for example, that in religious studies, some of the Waco websites are
very highly thought of--so I can assume that there are websites for just
about any sort of interest which are on the mark and can be used.
I think it does make a bit of a difference in the way it is taught. I
read a journal article recently, for instance, about teachers getting
their students to sign up for specific mailng list, but with the warning
not to get involved too much personally due to flame wars, etc. This sort
of sounds like a disaster to me. There are also, lists however, where
scholars and students get together to discuss issues in a a civilized way
(how strange!) learn what's new in the field, throw out ideas, read drafts
of new work, etc.
>
>
> My own field,
> > basically social deviance, has been big in women's and queer history,
and
> > maybe business history among others. A few years ago I did a book
review
> > on the history of garbage in amerika.
>
>
> how does this tie in?
It's consumer history, which I really love. It explains it all.
> has there been a lot written on the history of garbage in america?
> tons, i'll bet ;-)
Oh boy! This book kind of ruined my day. It starts out discussing the
number of tons of horse manure dropped in Brooklyn annually in 1898 or
something like that, then goes into horse piss running in the streets, and
how this was cleaned up. Interesting stuff on the White Wings--the first
professionalized garbage service in the US, headed by Teddy Roosevelt. He
basically militarized and professionalized them. Neat WHITE uniforms. I
wonder if the workers wives had to wash them? BTW, you know those big
plastic garbage dumpsters the city sticks you with? Those great big ones?
In the business their known as Godzillas.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C4A8...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
>
> >
> > I think it does make a bit of a difference in the way it is taught. I
> > read a journal article recently, for instance, about teachers getting
> > their students to sign up for specific mailng list, but with the
warning
>
> The way I fantasized about the net affecting the way history is written
> was that formerly repressed people- like the students in China and the
> Balkan states, for instance- could communicate with the rest of the
> world using the net. Getting their story out.
Well, I don't know if it would be any different from amerikan BS on the
net. Here's a weird site though that may be something like you are
talking about, but not exactly.
http://vukovar.unm.edu/arkzin/bastard/whatis_b.htm. (I'm not sure if it's
still up). It's a Croatian site, but it's not out of Crotia directly. I
found it about a year ago. Here's a piece of it that I like a lot, and
got me thinking that we need to develop Bastard Theory much like Queer
Theory has been developed over the last decade or so:
What is Bastard? (Bastard is a magazine, btw):
Bastard exists--or to put it more precisely, the self-allowed connection
between the fatherless children of philosophical theores and cultural
criticism and the idea of a still-possible and non-obsolete critcal
thinking--aims at a moment of truth and cognition of one's own. ....The
very name Bastard stems from the concept of impurity of the race--a
counterpoint to all cult-based families (races, classes, nations),
performing rituals in front of their home-made altar-pieces.... " (Love the
phrase cult-based familes. The family is a cult itself.)
"Hence Bastard feels committed to the consequences of being a raceless
species. Furthermore, Bastard is not pre-elected or given a high cultural
racial heritage. Instead, it legitimates itself over and over again and
forces others to do the same. Now the Culture-Bastard is about to disperse
and realize itself. Ther only difficulties it encounters concerns
questions about authenticities. For what it always has to present is the
paradoxical mixture of Enlightment and Criticism on Modernity. And its
very concern--the criticism of culutre, theory, art, and literature--aims
both at the analysis of individual events in the field of culture and at
their deconstruction based upon hetergeneous theoreis of ideologies.....
Therefore 2 B an intellectual in Crotia today means 2 B an outcast, 2 B THE
BASTARD
I especially like the idea, in my developing School of Bastard Theory, of
the Bastard repeatedly legitimating herself or himself by forcing others to
legitimize themselves. I think that Bastards are a social and cultural
critique of consumerism and capitalism and to a lesser degree (so far)
post-communism-- in general the paradigm of consumerist worth centered in
our bodies. I would go further to say that Bastards represent authenticity,
whereas legos on the whole represent Church and State and their
accompanying institutional oppression. It might be worthwhile to go back
and take a serious look at existentialism, if even on a literary level
only. A re-reading of Camus, particularly The Stranger, for instance,
with a Bastard eye, might prove very revealing. Then I'm a Modernist not
a POMO, although I also believe that Bastards fits right into postmodern
culture. But are we symbolic of it or its conscience (if post modernism
indeed does have one)?
By all means necessary,
Veronica22
"Biography is making a comeback now
as well as narrative history (thank G-d!), but conceptional history, post
structuralism, still rules. I personally think, however, that the field
has opened up greatly."
Conceptional history, as in I DID get pregnant?
Veronica22
"Oh boy! This book kind of ruined my day. It starts out discussing the
number of tons of horse manure dropped in Brooklyn annually in 1898 or
something like that, then goes into horse piss running in the streets, and
how this was cleaned up. Interesting stuff on the White Wings--the first
professionalized garbage service in the US, headed by Teddy Roosevelt. He
basically militarized and professionalized them. Neat WHITE uniforms. I
wonder if the workers wives had to wash them? BTW, you know those big
plastic garbage dumpsters the city sticks you with? Those great big ones?
In the business their known as Godzillas. "
***
Ummm Marley, is it OK if someone other than you picks out the book for our Book
Club next month? :)
Veronica22
"reallyquickly, cuz I'm an my way out the door to meet veronica for
coffee..."
***
And it was great! We met at a fave little French cafe/bakery and hugged and
chatted and joked and laughed, laughed, laughed!
Looking forward to next time, Barb!
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Veronica22 <veron...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808022252...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> Marley:
> "Oh boy! This book kind of ruined my day. It starts out discussing the
> number of tons of horse manure dropped in Brooklyn annually in 1898 or
> something like that, then goes into horse piss running in the streets,
and
> how this was cleaned up. Interesting stuff on the White Wings--the first
> professionalized garbage service in the US, headed by Teddy Roosevelt.
He
> basically militarized and professionalized them. Neat WHITE uniforms. I
> wonder if the workers wives had to wash them? BTW, you know those big
> plastic garbage dumpsters the city sticks you with? Those great big
ones?
> In the business their known as Godzillas. "
>
> ***
>
> Ummm Marley, is it OK if someone other than you picks out the book for
our Book
> Club next month? :)
Sure. I suppose somebody has written on the historoy of toilet paper.
When I was still in Theatre, there was an MFA thesis on the history of the
glove.
Veronica22
"Sure. I suppose somebody has written on the historoy of toilet paper.
When I was still in Theatre, there was an MFA thesis on the history of the
glove."
And did you play Marian in The Music Man, too?
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
--
> Marley:
> "Sure. I suppose somebody has written on the historoy of toilet paper.
> When I was still in Theatre, there was an MFA thesis on the history of
the
> glove."
> ***
>
> And did you play Marian in The Music Man, too?
I detest performance. Actors ruin the show every time. When I still went
to plays, I spent most of the evening looking at the light hangings. I
once, was, however, played the 3rd fireman in Biederman and the Firebugs.
I got tied up with a garden hose and did a terrific flip over a table.
Marley
Veronica22
"I detest performance. Actors ruin the show every time. When I still went
to plays, I spent most of the evening looking at the light hangings. I
once, was, however, played the 3rd fireman in Biederman and the Firebugs.
I got tied up with a garden hose and did a terrific flip over a table."
You're good, you're good, I can tell. I saw "Riverdance" tonight (throughly
elitest seats, but; no limo tonight). The lighting was wonderful. Fab. and
they could have used your skills. Are you sure you're not Irish?
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Who knows. I'm adopted. But I am British with probably some Welsh. (I
dont' even want to think about the dreaded German part.) I've been told
that being Welsh is just as good, but I don't know. I hate Protestant
hymns and choirs.
Jackie C
> 4. does the narrative thing and shows the dichotomy between the public
>persona and the private woman. separates once again the truth from the
>fantasy. the male gaze depends heavily upon projection and fantasy. the
>woman becomes the carrier of the male's sexual fantasies, and loses her
>personal self. that's what objectification is.
So the question is .....<s>
Is objectification a good thing or a bad thing.. Artimesia..
objectified men in some of her paintings.. Either the brute judging or
the one getting his head cut off..
The stripper is objectified.. The girl in the bikini on the beach is
said to be (and I heard it on TV..<s>) that she is the poor mans
viagra....
But the bottom line question is do I objectify.. an object.. like the
tree I am still painting.. or am I putting me in that tree..
Jackie C
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Jackie C <ja...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
<35cfd574...@news.newsguy.com>...
Well, I think that objectification is a good thing, and the male gaze is an
extremely narrow way to look at things. There is the female gaze as well.
Females objectify men all the time. And what I find more interesting (I'm
not up on all the literature, so I may be wrong) is that nobody wants to
talk about the female on female gaze. As somone who spent years being
subjected to feminist literarly theory as a way of life, female on female
seems to be fine and dandy.
Morra
> >
> > Is objectification a good thing or a bad thing
i don't think there's any one answer to that question.
> > The stripper is objectified..
here's an example of a woman making money using her body.
objectification is her stock in trade. is it bad? is it good? is she
empowered or enslaved? we would have to ask her, wouldn't we?
The girl in the bikini on the beach is
> > said to be (and I heard it on TV..<s>) that she is the poor mans
> > viagra....
well what about this one? she's on the beach in a bikini, she's asking
to be objectified too, but what does she gain by it? feeling good
because men are gawking, making her feel socially acceptable? is that
good? they're not giving her anything of monetary value like they give
the stripper. please note that both women are at risk for sexual
assault. the difference is one is a professional, i guess, a sex worker,
looking to make a living ( and as i understand it, the money can be very
good while it lasts); the other is looking for something emotional,
perhaps.
is objectification good or bad in these cases? doesn't it change from
person to person, couple to couple? it can be harmful to some people;
others can handle it. and the intent and temperement of the objectifier
plays into it all, doesn't it?
>
> Well, I think that objectification is a good thing, and the male gaze is an
> extremely narrow way to look at things.
interesting.
There is the female gaze as well.
> Females objectify men all the time.
you bet. but it ain't their chest measurement they're lookin' at! ( at
least down here) it has more to do with their wallet measurement, imo.
And what I find more interesting (I'm
> not up on all the literature, so I may be wrong) is that nobody wants to
> talk about the female on female gaze. As somone who spent years being
> subjected to feminist literarly theory as a way of life, female on female
> seems to be fine and dandy.
there's plenty of that where i am , as well. lots.
how about male to male?
>
> Marley
>
> --
Morra
before i could finish.
what about the objectification of adoptees?
Morra
>
> Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C65D...@onramp.net>...
> > meant to add this thought to the above post, but got called away
> > before i could finish.
> >
> > what about the objectification of adoptees?
>
> Bastard Theory
>
> Of course we all know Bastards who objectify other Bastards for the
> purporses of lust, love and romance. I mean, there are some pretty
> fantastically gorgeous and rich Bastards here on alt.adoption, are there
> not, just waiting to be the object of othe Bastard gaze?
>
> Marley
>
alt. a is *rife* with bastard goddesses and gods. even the dictator is
cute....
i may need my sunglasses
> >
Veronica22
"Who knows. I'm adopted. But I am British with probably some Welsh. (I
dont' even want to think about the dreaded German part.) I've been told
that being Welsh is just as good, but I don't know. I hate Protestant
hymns and choirs."
Ah Welsh is great. Dylan Thomas ....
Music in his words.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Veronica22 <veron...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808040006...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> Marley:
> "Who knows. I'm adopted. But I am British with probably some Welsh. (I
> dont' even want to think about the dreaded German part.) I've been told
> that being Welsh is just as good, but I don't know. I hate Protestant
> hymns and choirs."
> ***
>
> Ah Welsh is great. Dylan Thomas ....
Dylan Thomas yes. Hymns no.
Back in the late 1980s I went to the local Welsch picnic with a friend who
is in the Welsh Society. I still have no idea if there is such a thing as
Welsh food. The main dish was KFC.
Marley
Veronica22
"Back in the late 1980s I went to the local Welsch picnic with a friend who
is in the Welsh Society. I still have no idea if there is such a thing as
Welsh food. The main dish was KFC."
Well, there ISN'T. Just like there isn't decent English food. And certainly
not Irish, yikes, haggis and potatos?
(Or does "potatos" have an "e" ?)
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Veronica22 <veron...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808040057...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Marley:
> "Back in the late 1980s I went to the local Welsch picnic with a friend
who
> is in the Welsh Society. I still have no idea if there is such a thing
as
> Welsh food. The main dish was KFC."
> ***
>
> Well, there ISN'T. Just like there isn't decent English food. And
certainly
> not Irish, yikes, haggis and potatos?
The first time I ever went to Europe, the very first meal I had was haggis
at the YMCA hostel in Glasgow. I didn't know what it was until later. Why
is food from the British Isles SO bad?
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C655...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Is objectification a good thing or a bad thing
>
>
>
> i don't think there's any one answer to that question.
>
>
>
> > > The stripper is objectified..
>
>
> here's an example of a woman making money using her body.
> objectification is her stock in trade. is it bad? is it good? is she
> empowered or enslaved? we would have to ask her, wouldn't we?
>
> The girl in the bikini on the beach is
> > > said to be (and I heard it on TV..<s>) that she is the poor mans
> > > viagra....
>
> well what about this one? she's on the beach in a bikini, she's asking
> to be objectified too, but what does she gain by it? feeling good
> because men are gawking, making her feel socially acceptable? is that
> good?
If
they're not giving her anything of monetary value like they give
> the stripper. please note that both women are at risk for sexual
> assault. the difference is one is a professional, i guess, a sex worker,
> looking to make a living ( and as i understand it, the money can be very
> good while it lasts); the other is looking for something emotional,
> perhaps.
> is objectification good or bad in these cases? doesn't it change from
> person to person, couple to couple? it can be harmful to some people;
> others can handle it. and the intent and temperement of the objectifier
> plays into it all, doesn't it?
This is what I was trying to say. If that's what she wants, it's good.
In this society, I can't imagine a woman parading around in a bikini that
is not doing it for a feel good reason. My friend Sveta used to wear a
bathing suit walking down Nevsky Propsect when she left the beach. Now,
that's just not done. She also had sleeveless dress with huge armholes.
She didn't like underwear and wore this dress quite frequently. She
especially enjoyed wearing it on the Metro where she'd remain standing and
hold on to a rail above her head. Of course, this provided hours of smirky
remarks and public groping which she couldn't "understand" and would then
order Soier to sucker punch the poor slob who was dumb enough to react to
this performance piece. Night discos were always fun.
>
> >
> > Well, I think that objectification is a good thing, and the male gaze
is an
> > extremely narrow way to look at things.
>
>
> interesting.
>
>
> There is the female gaze as well.
> > Females objectify men all the time.
>
>
> you bet. but it ain't their chest measurement they're lookin' at! ( at
> least down here) it has more to do with their wallet measurement, imo.
Here it's how much beer one can drink.
>
> And what I find more interesting (I'm
> > not up on all the literature, so I may be wrong) is that nobody wants
to
> > talk about the female on female gaze. As somone who spent years being
> > subjected to feminist literarly theory as a way of life, female on
female
> > seems to be fine and dandy.
>
>
> there's plenty of that where i am , as well. lots.
>
> how about male to male?
Most definitely. I think the most blatant objectification is in that area.
It's just rather peculiar to me that it's only the male case that comes
under scrutiny. Talk about discrimination!
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C65D...@onramp.net>...
> meant to add this thought to the above post, but got called away
> before i could finish.
>
> what about the objectification of adoptees?
That's something I find real interesting, and something to be worked out in
Bastard Theory
Of course we all know Bastards who objectify other Bastards for the
purporses of lust, love and romance. I mean, there are some pretty
fantastically gorgeous and rich Bastards here on alt.adoption, are there
not, just waiting to be the object of othe Bastard gaze?
Marley
Veronica22
"The first time I ever went to Europe, the very first meal I had was haggis
at the YMCA hostel in Glasgow. I didn't know what it was until later. Why
is food from the British Isles SO bad?"
Dunno. A mystery so great not even the great Agatha Christie could write it.
oh, and you're right, it is Scottish, not Irish.
But the Irish get to keep the potato(e)s.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
> >
> > Veronica22 <veron...@aol.com> wrote in article
> > <199808040057...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> > > Marley:
> > > "Back in the late 1980s I went to the local Welsch picnic with a
friend
> > who
> > > is in the Welsh Society. I still have no idea if there is such a
thing
> > as
> > > Welsh food. The main dish was KFC."
> > > ***
> > >
> > > Well, there ISN'T. Just like there isn't decent English food. And
> > certainly
> > > not Irish, yikes, haggis and potatos?
> >
haggis
> > at the YMCA hostel in Glasgow. I didn't know what it was until later.
Why
> > is food from the British Isles SO bad?
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
> the *food* is bad? what i heard was that the *nookie* was bad with an
> english guy. someone called it plain vanilla or some such.....
Well, I won't carry tales on myself, but I know one who's not.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C67F...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
> >
> > Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C655...@onramp.net>...
>
> If that's what she wants, it's good.
>
>
> then i'm ok with it.
>
> > In this society, I can't imagine a woman parading around in a bikini
that
> > is not doing it for a feel good reason.
>
> feels beautiful and sexually powerful and in control, or does she feel
> good because somebody approved of her parading around in a bikini, which
> would be a passive, needy, and what was that word, Ron?...codependent
> role.
I'm not sure if it makes any difference. If it makes somebody feel good
for whatever reason, then what do we know about it. I'm a show off myself,
though at the moment a bikini is out of the question.
>
>
>
> My friend Sveta used to wear a
> > bathing suit walking down Nevsky Propsect when she left the beach.
Now,
> > that's just not done. She also had sleeveless dress with huge
armholes.
> > She didn't like underwear and wore this dress quite frequently. She
> > especially enjoyed wearing it on the Metro where she'd remain standing
and
> > hold on to a rail above her head. Of course, this provided hours of
smirky
> > remarks and public groping which she couldn't "understand" and would
then
> > order Soier to sucker punch the poor slob who was dumb enough to react
to
> > this performance piece. Night discos were always fun.
>
> lol!!!!
> which type was she? hahahah!
I have no idea. She was the biggest baracuda I never met. I know one
amerikan who spent $17,000 on her in one month (on fancy underwear, body
lotion, and expensive hotel rooms) and lost his wife, his home, and his
Danish visa over it. The ultimate ball buster. She'd do things like go out
of the country and then tell the present sucker (or suckers as the case may
be) that she ran out of money and if they didn't wire some to her she'd be
"forced" to have an "accident" with an Arab or some other ethnic group that
makes Russians crazy.
>
>
> >
> > It's just rather peculiar to me that it's only the male case that comes
> > under scrutiny. Talk about discrimination!
>
>
> perhaps it happened that way because it was okay to talk about
> transferences between opposite sexes, but it used to be NOT ok to talk
> about same sex transferences. the gay comunity may need to catch up
> on this front.
I don't think it will, though.
Marley
--
I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I think
He likes Pearl Jam, too."
.....John Kasich
*****BASTARD NATION*****
www.bastards.org
>
>
>
>
> -
Tracy
>
>But the Irish get to keep the potato(e)s.
>
>
>Veronica
>"You cannot want a child and be open and honest" -- Marcy5000, Chosen Child
Oh man you mean that potatos don't come from Idaho??? Now my heart is all broken.....Smile
just a joke.......Tracy
>
Morra
>
> I'm not sure if it makes any difference. If it makes somebody feel good
> for whatever reason, then what do we know about it. I'm a show off myself,
> though at the moment a bikini is out of the question.
I know the feeling.
> I have no idea. She was the biggest baracuda I never met. I know one
> amerikan who spent $17,000 on her in one month (on fancy underwear, body
> lotion, and expensive hotel rooms) and lost his wife, his home, and his
> Danish visa over it. The ultimate ball buster.
Wish you could see my current art work. Ball buster indeed. can't
unveil it till my show in April, though.
She'd do things like go out
> of the country and then tell the present sucker (or suckers as the case may
> be) that she ran out of money and if they didn't wire some to her she'd be
> "forced" to have an "accident" with an Arab or some other ethnic group that
> makes Russians crazy.
OW!
>
> I don't think it will, though.
why?
barb
Morra
> > > --
> > >
> >
> >
> > the *food* is bad? what i heard was that the *nookie* was bad with an
> > english guy. someone called it plain vanilla or some such.....
>
> Well, I won't carry tales on myself, but I know one who's not.
>
> Marley
>
:D
barb
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C729...@onramp.net>...
>
> > I have no idea. She was the biggest baracuda I never met. I know one
> > amerikan who spent $17,000 on her in one month (on fancy underwear,
body
> > lotion, and expensive hotel rooms) and lost his wife, his home, and his
> > Danish visa over it. The ultimate ball buster.
>
> unveil it till my show in April, though.
Will you put it up on your page after that?
> >
> > I don't think it will, though.
>
> why?
Well, I think that sex is very important, and in this country it's been
"under-valued." We need more, not less of it.
Marcy5000
>
>Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
>
>> > > --
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > the *food* is bad? what i heard was that the *nookie* was bad with
>an
>> > english guy. someone called it plain vanilla or some such.....
>>
>> Well, I won't carry tales on myself, but I know one who's not.
>>
>> Marley
>>
>
>
>
> :D
>
> barb
>> --
>> I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I think
>> He likes Pearl Jam, too."
>> .....John Kasich
>>
>> *****BASTARD NATION*****
>> www.bastards.org
>>
>> >
></PRE></HTML>
Hey Marley, what happened to the Palestinean ? How was your date? Enquiring
minds want to know. Are you going to become a Religious Muslim now? And wear a
black whatever those things are called, and have 12 sprogs????????????????
Mohammed wishes you blessed fortune and many sons...........................
Morra
.
>
> Will you put it up on your page after that?
My gut instinct it that these are not going to photograph very well.
documenting artwork is really tricky. we'll see.
what i want to know is when the bastards are going to be putting up
photos of the conference.
>
> > >
> >
> Well, I think that sex is very important, and in this country it's been
> "under-valued." We need more, not less of it.
well ok. but what has that to do with exploring the dynamics of same
sex relationships?
>
> Marley
>
barb
>
> *****BASTARD NATION*****
> www.bastards.org
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Morra <mo...@onramp.net> wrote in article <35C73C...@onramp.net>...
> Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
> .
> >
> > Will you put it up on your page after that?
>
>
> My gut instinct it that these are not going to photograph very well.
> documenting artwork is really tricky. we'll see.
> what i want to know is when the bastards are going to be putting up
> photos of the conference.
I don't know. I think they are still coming in through the mail or
something. I haven't develped mine yet. In fact, I still haven't
developed the pictures of Bastards at the Bell becasue my camera battery
died (thinaks to Vladlimir), and to get a new one is a major bus trip.
I've been using those dumb cameras, and they're still sitting around, too.
> > > >
> > >
> > Well, I think that sex is very important, and in this country it's been
> > "under-valued." We need more, not less of it.
>
>
>
> well ok. but what has that to do with exploring the dynamics of same
> sex relationships?
> >
> > Marley
I'm a pervert I know, but I think sex needs to be objectified more to get
it going. All this PC crap about "personal relationships" and "commitment"
must go.
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Marcy5000 <marc...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808041558...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Marley wrote:
>
> >
> >Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
> >
> >> > > --
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > the *food* is bad? what i heard was that the *nookie* was bad
with
> >an
> >> > english guy. someone called it plain vanilla or some such.....
> >>
> >> Well, I won't carry tales on myself, but I know one who's not.
> >>
> >> Marley
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > :D
> >
> > barb
> >> I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I
think
> >> He likes Pearl Jam, too."
> >> .....John Kasich
> >>
> >> *****BASTARD NATION*****
> >> www.bastards.org
> >>
> >> >
>
> Hey Marley, what happened to the Palestinean ?
He's coming over in a little while to put some wood hardner on my porch.
(No comments, please).
How was your date?
OK, but 15 years makes a big difference, for the worse. He read the
ingredients of the spaghetti sauce to me. I don't remember this sort of
activity way back when.
Enquiring
> minds want to know. Are you going to become a Religious Muslim now? And
wear a
> black whatever those things are called, and have 12
sprogs????????????????
Well I like the chadur a lot, though I most certainly must be in the
minority. It's the perfect cover for the anti-social--and it's black.
Marcy5000
>
>Marcy5000 <marc...@aol.com> wrote in article
><199808041558...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>> Marley wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Marley Elizabeth Greiner wrote:
>> >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > the *food* is bad? what i heard was that the *nookie* was bad
>with
>> >an
>> >> > english guy. someone called it plain vanilla or some such.....
>> >>
>> >> Well, I won't carry tales on myself, but I know one who's not.
>> >>
>> >> Marley
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > :D
>> >
>> > barb
>> >> --
>> >> I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I
>think
>> >> He likes Pearl Jam, too."
>> >> .....John Kasich
>> >>
>> >> *****BASTARD NATION*****
>> >> www.bastards.org
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >
>>
>> Hey Marley, what happened to the Palestinean ?
>
>He's coming over in a little while to put some wood hardner on my porch.
>(No comments, please).
>
>
>How was your date?
>
>OK, but 15 years makes a big difference, for the worse. He read the
>ingredients of the spaghetti sauce to me. I don't remember this sort of
>activity way back when.
>
> Enquiring
>> minds want to know. Are you going to become a Religious Muslim now? And
>wear a
>> black whatever those things are called, and have 12
>sprogs????????????????
>
>Well I like the chadur a lot, though I most certainly must be in the
>minority. It's the perfect cover for the anti-social--and it's black.
>>
>Marley
>
>
>--
>I like Pearl Jam--and I have a personal relationship with God. But I think
>He likes Pearl Jam, too."
> .....John Kasich
>
>*****BASTARD NATION*****
>www.bastards.org
>
></PRE></HTML>
Marley, he read the ingredients of the spaghetti sauce? That is a PLUS
!!!!!!!!!! Beats my dates, at least yours can read.........if you don't want
him, can I try him out? How do you get guys to do stuff for you? I never could
.............
Marcy
Marley Elizabeth Greiner
Can you buy him a plane ticket?
How do you get guys to do stuff for you? I never could
I"m paying him. That is for the painting and yard work, and I'm helping out
to save money. I've decided to check off exterior painting and solid waste
disposal as career options.