Tie the child to a chair?????
IMHO
That's what kids do at that age, they like to run and get away with
things. Sounds like Alicia doesnt have a grip! This is horrible, someone
should strap her ass to a chair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is abuse and yet in a
mall
where everyone else was watching? Then she goes on to brag that when
she walks the dog her little angel grabs the harness. THIS WOMEN IS FUCKED UP!
She cannot handle this child, so she puts a harness on her?? Nah this is not
right!!
I hope you print all this, get a good attorney and get that child out!!!
Call the local police!!!!
Barb
http://forums.adoption.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120566&perpage=15&hi
ghlight=Alicia%20Hunter&pagenumber=2
Others will never understand until they have one of those kids. I USE A HARNESS
ON MY DAUGHTER. She is not quite as active as your little one. Have you talked
to your pediatrician? This could be more than childhood mischief.
The day after Christmas my little angel had to wear a harness. I bought it
because two weeks earlier she had gone shopping with grandpa and ran away. It
took over 30 minutes to find her and the store was about to shut down in order
to find her. The wrist thing lasts about 2 seconds so I use the harness. Well,
anyway, back to the day after Christmas. We were shopping at the mall and
stopped to eat. I got her all set up to eat and as soon as I took a big bite
she took off. I had to chase her through the mall and my purse was still back
at our table. So, little angel was tied to her chair for the rest of the meal.
My exact words to her, keep in mind I WAS MAD, were "If you are gonna run away
like a puppy then I will tie you up like a puppy." Yes I got alot of dirty
looks, but these people do not have to live with a kid like this. I love her
dearly, but sometimes I just want her to be normal for a second to give me a
break.
Now she loves the harness. The other day we went for a walk with the dog and
she thought it was great. She also grabs it before we leave home alot. She is
always asking to wear it now because it heeps her from getting into trouble.
You are doing ok. PM me for support- I know what it is like.
__________________
Alicia Richards
Debbie
I agree.This is sick behavior.This child now likes the harness
because the dog has one.Yes she is fu**ed up.Where is the Children's Aid or
whatever it is called in the states for this behavior?I just can't believe
someone has not already called the police.I read some of the posts at this
link.SAD.I can see using some kind of attachment like a wrist one if you are
at the fair or a place like that.I now my niece went through a phase when we
went to fairs and real busy places that she did not want to be in a stroller
and wanted to walk but did not want to hold my hand.I never used anything
but I had to keep my eyes on her the entire time.I hope for this child's
sake someone soon reports her.Take care Barb.
"IMHO" <akronohi...@aol.comments> wrote in message
news:20041028002039...@mb-m10.aol.com...
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WitchWirsen
Action will be taken, but in the mean time...I was afraid that the posts
might disappear so I printed them all before I went on the site and let them
know who I was and that I saw it all.
Amazingly, I found the posts by accident one night while looking on the web
for grandparents rights.
I ceartainly don't think that there is anything wrong with using a wrist
thing or harness when you are in a croweded area to keep a child from being
lost.
I'm not even really all that upset about the chair tying (thought I reaised
five stair step kids without having to tie them to anything to contrl
them)...not so much as I am upset about the fact that it seems like my grand
daughter thinks she is not in control of her behavior...and that the harness
that her mom puts on her is what controls her.
Somethign about that is not right...I'm not a psychologist...but I have this
gut feeling that somethign is fundamentally wrong about it.
You will notice that the forum supports her actions fully. The moderator,
Brandy, takes the a-mom's 'thank you' very well, indicating to me that it's
an issue of being part of the crowd..Brandy does not realize apparently that
if child abuse charges ever come from any of this she will also be named
because she did not report what she saw and fully encouraged it.
They also support the slanderous accusations of sexual abuse on my
grandchild and the mom bases that suspicion of abuse on the fact that my
grand daughter did not like to have her diaper changed...
Somethign is fundamentally wrong about that as well.
Another poster said that she 'saved' my grand daughter form abuse and
neglect, yet her husband says there was no abuse or neglect of the child in
my home.
Look, I am not trying to make anyone unhappy or miserable...but imagine my
shock when I stumbled across the posts that were made....I had no idea that
there was any allegation of abuse, none of neglect, neither did my
daughter..the childs mother...and then to read about the chair incident,
coupled with hysterics while the a-mom's brother babysat...I was just
overwhelmed with all of this.
I think the most hard to take thing is that it's clear what the a-mom thinks
of my family...when she presented a wholly different attitude to us.
Tonight I found out that she already has been selected as the adoptive
parent for my other grandchild should he be placed for adoption...
I suspected that maybe she was calling us because she had found out that my
daughter was pregnant and planning on going with adoption...and maybe she
wanted the baby...(but she didn't tell us that when she called) and she
posted on adoption.com that she was sad that my two grandchildren would not
be together...that kinda jerked my suspicion even further..then tonight I
hear that she was already selected...well...what would you think?
An excellent point that was made by someone who I will not divulge is this
'If she can't keep control of one child in a mall then does she really need
to be considered for placement for another child? It seems she has her
hands full'
That scares me because this assessment is correct.
To many lies, too much secrecy, too many assumptions, accusations, it's all
too much!!!!!!!!!!
That is some of the reason my daughter and I decided that we would not have
any further contact.
PLease, read further...see how she says that her family was racially biased
against my grand daughter because she is of hispanic decent...read how her
family did not want her to adopt my grand daughter ( I am thankful to God
that they changed their minds) it appears that her descent is an issue...I
never bought her 'brown' babies...I never let on that she was not like us,
neither did anyone in our home, and how she states that her mother is fed up
with her brother and then she and her husband name TWO incidents when her
brother (who suffers ADD and ODD) had my grand daughter so upset that she
couldn't breathe.
It's all so muuuuuch for us, and my daughter is beside herself with
grief...she believed that the a-mom would take good care of her daughter who
she loes so much that I can't even express how she feels (a-mom does in
another post and humiliatingly refers to my daughter who was 16 at the time
as 'chompin at the bit at the thought that she might get to see her child
again.) all I can say is that I see it in her eyes.
Just tell me...anyone on this newsgroup...if you were me, how would you
feel?
If any one person on this or any other NG, or anywhere else can tell me that
htye would not feel the same as my daughter and I then I will cease now.
But I know no one can tell me that honestly.
If they did they would be lying.
I again thank you all for taking the time to read and find out for
yourselves rather than just believe what you were told.
"IMHO" <akronohi...@aol.comments> wrote in message
news:20041028002039...@mb-m10.aol.com...
Debbie
knows what other behavior there is that no one knows about.This must be so
hard to deal with.
"WitchWirsen" <johnc...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:vg%fd.19749$R05.14770@attbi_s53...
Lori
months old and trying to run off all the time. I happened to mention it
to her doctor so he did some extra tests and said she has high
metabolism. That amom needs to use her head and do some checking before
she runs off half cocked tying this child to a chair. He also mentioned
that allot of children are being put on meds to slow them down do to
what is called ADD, ADHD and other such titles when it is only due to
high metabolism. Due to the fact my adaughters doctor told me early on
about it the schools have never been able to force me to medicate her,
lord knows they tried. The schools have to work around her and not her
around the schools. Your granddaughter needs to run to burn off natural
energy. Doing what she did will only build up that childs energy level.
Is this amom not smart enough to know how that child must have felt,
what it can do to her self esteem? The child not knowing she cannot help
what she is doing and being punished for it. Lets hope she sees this and
checks into it before she does real damage.
Lori
Soulwhisper7
>Path:
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tv.net!not-for-mail
>From: kenne...@webtv.net (Lori)
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:36:08 -0400
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to find it a cruel means, but guess what! The child harness is alive and well
today :-) I guess that it still has it's opposition just like circumcision :-O
http://www.littlesafetyharness.com/
LuanneP
>Call the local police!!!!
>
>Barb
>
That's just it, Barb....that ding-dong Betty WON'T call the police or obtain an
attorney. All she does is complain about it on a newsgroup or an adoption
forum, which is making her look like an ass. Words on a newsgroup or an
adoption forum aren't going to do anything. Were it MY GRANDCHILD, for
starters, she never would have been adopted out but if she had, I would do
everything in my power to follow-up on her care. Obviously, Betty doesn't do
shit except post on the internet and boo-hoo about it. White Trash mentality.
That's why I doubt her credability.
LuanneP
>whatever it is called in the states
I just said, Debbie - "Betty" won't do shit except for post online about it.
She has taken no action. Makes me wonder what the hell was going on at her
place that the kid was removed and why her 12-year-old daughter got knocked up
to begin with.
Soulwhisper7
>From: lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 13:26:04 GMT
>References: <20041028002039...@mb-m10.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028092604...@mb-m01.aol.com>
Fell better now Lu?
How do you know what Betty is doing other than posting here?
LuanneP
>Fell better now Lu?
>
>How do you know what Betty is doing other than posting here?
>
For one thing, if she DID contact the police or an attorney, they would tell
her to stop posting online about it. That's first and foremost with them, Les.
Lori
I just think that she should have done a little checking before she
took that measure. Not being her natural child she should have tried to
take a few extra steps to see if there was more going on. Maybe the
child is having bonding issues so she needs to be understanding of the
child's needs. I don't know the answer but I think she has to do all
that is possible to bring that child up happy and healthy as I am sure
that is what she would want had she gave birth to that child herself.
WitchWirsen
obtained any other way.
"Soulwhisper7" <soulwh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041028094356...@mb-m29.aol.com...
Truth Be Told
>> Fell better now Lu?
>>
>> How do you know what Betty is doing other than posting here?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Who fell? Did they get hurt? Lu, I didn't know you fell...lmao
WitchWirsen
opinion on whether or not they should be used.
I guess for me it really boils down to this...is it used for the childs
safety or the parents convenience, or abuse of some type.
I am certain that they have their uses. I believe it is in the best
interests of a child when they are sued to keep them from being kidnapped in
crowded places, or to keep them from wandering off in crowds.
I read that one woman used one to tie her child to a stair case while she
cleaned up glass from the floor so that he would not get cut. I find that
acceptable.
I was told that in our state tying or confining a child is illegal
restraint. I was told that it is illegal here, and that the state punishes
to the fullest extent of the law on such cases.
I know that foster parents have to sign an agreement stating that they will
not confine a child to dark places, small places, things like that. Weird
that would be necessary. Kinda makes you wonder what the state has seen
foster parents do that they felt the need to make up such an agreement.news:20041028090231...@mb-m29.aol.com...
WitchWirsen
I agree with you that other things should have been tried.
I do not agree on your take about her not being the natural parent. She is
her parent none the less...that should have no bearing in how she diciplines
my grand daughter.
The issue is really methods of dicipline. If I were in her shoes, when the
child ran off at the mall I would have, instead of tying her to a chair,
gathered up our things and said "If you can't behave when we go out, then I
guess we will have to stay home', I would have gone on to tell her that she
could get lost, or could get hurt and then I would not be aroudn to help
her, and then I would have left.
I would have done that every time she acted up.
I probably would have been more inclined to NOT take a child that runs off
and such to the mall or any other crowded place just after a nap when enrgy
levels are high.
But really, taking her home should have been sufficient...once a child
realizes that you mean business they start to behave appropriately.
That really eliminates the need for things like harnesses.
I am sure she would want what we want for her child as well.
If more people would but think 'how would I feel?' before acting this world
would be a better place.
"Lori" <kenne...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:708-4180...@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...
WitchWirsen
How would you have any idea what I have DONE and have NOT DONE?
Just to clue you in a little, I have TWO attorneys.
And, um, HOW, would you be willing to tell me, WOULD someone fillow up on
care of a child AFTER they have been adopted? Please do advise me on that,
I am curious to know how that can be done...other than accidentally finding
posts made by the adoptive family on the internet.
"LuanneP" <lua...@aol.comehere> wrote in message
news:20041028092604...@mb-m01.aol.com...
Soulwhisper7
>Lines: 12>Date: 28 Oct 2004 13:59:29 GMT
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>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028095929...@mb-m01.aol.com>
and it is an entirely different situation than what has gone on here in the
past.
Soulwhisper7
>Path:
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ebtv.net!newssorter-3001.bay.webtv.net!not-for-mail>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:53:21 -0400
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Soulwhisper7
>If more people would but think 'how >would I feel?' before acting this world
>would be a better place.
Amen!
IMHO
chair!!!
Then she compared the walking of the dog
and her angel grabbing her harness to go for a walk.
I knew you wouldnt understand it.
Barb
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 16:19:11 GMT
>References: <20041028090231...@mb-m29.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028121911...@mb-m01.aol.com>
after realized she need it to control the child. I know that harnesses on
children are controversial but I doubt that the amother was resttraining the
child to be cruel. God forbid that child went missing or fell and got badly
injured at the mall, then everyone would say "why didn't the amother contol the
kid". The the harness would have been OK, right? The wholde thing is harnesses
are legal and sold in many baby stores. It wasn't like the child was tied to a
pole or locked in a room unattended. There would have been little difference
if the child was strappd into a high chair. Highchairs, carseats, baby chairs,
swings, strollers ,ect all have straps or some sort of restraining device.
Betty is just making a big deal about it because of her own lack of parenting
skills. If she really gave a shit about the baby she would have NEVER allowed
CPS to remove her. If she was a good mother CPS would have never been involved
period. Betty couldn't take care of her 12yrold daughter and couldn't take care
of her grandbaby.
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>References: <3618-418...@storefull-3135.bay.webtv.net>
><20041028090231...@mb-m29.aol.com>
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>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:16:14 GMT
Betty give it a rest and get over it already. The child was restrained to keep
from being abducted or hurt. It was used for SAFETY. What part of this do you
not understand?: And furthermore you have no room to talk about adoption.com.
You wanted to take a personal beef there and that is unacceptable according to
their TOS. You and your IP# were banned. Let it go for chrissake.
Truth Be Told
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charges. So doctors saw signs of sexual abuse. You were never charged with it
so what is the big deal? Unless your feeling guilty and want to clean it up
before it surfaces. KWIM?
WitchWirsen
never investigated there may be a time in the future that MY GRANDCHILD will
be told that, it will cause her mental problems, she might be influenced in
her opinion of my family by that, and I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOOD FOR HER and
want to be able to prove that we did NOT ABUSE OR NEGLECT HER for HER sake.
BTW it's not good for us either.
"Truth Be Told" <lips...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041028141800...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Truth Be Told
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:23:02 GMT
>Organization: MediaCom High Speed Internet
Well I am sure seeing how her bgrandmother bashed her amother all over the
internet will be a great thing for her to to discover. You niwit. This shit is
stored forever in cyber abd kids go online very early these days. This child
no doubt will beloyal to her amother as this is the only REAL mother she will
have ever known. I would be hard pressed to believe she will have much respect
for you and may even be more damaged by your actions. She may never know about
sexual allegations but now that you blasted this shit all over the internet she
wil now know for sure, OK wise ass.
WitchWirsen
It was others who did that, else she could have fallen across these posts
and NEVER known who wrote them.
I'd be looking elsewhere for blame on that one.
"Truth Be Told" <lips...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041028143110...@mb-m21.aol.com...
WitchWirsen
certain situations. I believe that they are perfectly fine to use for
keeping track of a child.
What I question and have a problem with is that first, issues of humiliation
about the public restraint of the child.
Second, the childs equasion of herself with a dog.
Third, the absoultely incorrect assumption of the child that she does not
contorl her own behavior MUST be wrong.
If a child believes that they can behave with a harness on it would indicate
to me that the harness is used VERY MUCH, even when not necessary. Either
that, or the child has been verybally reinforced in that idea.
This child, any child, should be taught to be responsible for their
behavior. They should be taught that they are in control of what they do,
and that they will suffer the consequences of that behavior.
What happens when the child, thinking that the harness is her 'control',
blames somthing on the harness? 'It's not my fault, I didn't have my
harness on'.
She's four...not 1, and she is deveolping her sense of responsibility to a
limited extent...
Or maybe her harness is.news:20041028131533...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Soulwhisper7
>Lines: 66
>X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
>From: akronohi...@aol.comments (IMHO)
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 16:19:11 GMT
>References: <20041028090231...@mb-m29.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028121911...@mb-m01.aol.com>
>
>
>
a comment based on the person who posted in defense of the adoptive mother. SHE
OR HE SAID THE ADOPTIVE MOTHER USED A HARNESS...same old Barbie duh I
see...jumping into a pool before even seeing if it has water in it. What a
twit!
Soulwhisper7
>From: lips...@aol.com (Truth Be Told)
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 17:20:09 GMT
<snip>
>>
>
>Betty give it a rest and get over it already. > The child was restrained to
>keep
>from being abducted or hurt. It was used >for SAFETY.
Damn DM, you sure are a mighty jet setter, you seem to be everywhere these
days. Or are you just psychic? No one with average abilities could possibly
make such a statement.
Sheesh! I must be a real dummy because I know I wasn't there and I can't know
or say for certain what went on.
LuanneP
>How would you have any idea what I have DONE and have NOT DONE?
>Just to clue you in a little, I have TWO attorneys.
Have your TWO attorneys been told you have been shooting your mouth off on the
internet openly on these boards? I KNOW they would advise against that.
A friend of mind had a grievance with someone and began to yap about it in
various forums on the internet, but when it escalated, she had to seek the
advice of an attorney. The FIRST thing the attorney told her was to NOT speak
about it on any public forum on the internet, specifically because it would
have hurt her case. I don't think you spoken with an attorney or that if you
did, surely they would advise you to keep your trap shut on this and any other
adoption forum with a pending case. It wouldn't go in your favor otherwise.
LuanneP
>never investigated there may be a time in the future that MY GRANDCHILD
Actually, WISE ASS, be sure to let your attorneys know that you are yapping
about this "case" all over the internet because I am CERTAIN they would advise
against it. Ask DM - she knows of someone too, who was told it would hurt
their case were they to continue shooting their mouths off in various forums on
the internet. This is why I don't buy it that you actually HAVE spoken with an
attorney. Any good attorney(s) would advise you to shutup at least until the
case came to an end.
Soulwhisper7
<snip>
>>> My exact words to her, keep in mind I >>>WAS MAD, were "If you are gonna
run
>>> away
>>> like a puppy then I will tie you up like >>>a puppy."
This is an abusive mind set.
>>>Yes I got alot of dirty
>>> looks, but these people do not have to >>>live with a kid like this.
Behold the anger and demeaning message, and I suppose no one can imagine that
the child can feel this?
>>>I love
>>> her
>>> dearly, but sometimes I just want her >>>to be normal for a second to give
me
>>>a break.
She doesn't feel the child is normal? Naaa, the little girl will not have her
self esteem compromised living with this wonderful adopter!
>>> Now she loves the harness. The other day we went for a walk with the dog
>>> and
>>> she thought it was great. She also >>>grabs it before we leave home alot.
Oh ugh!
>>>She is
>>> always asking to wear it now because >>>it heeps her from getting into
>>> trouble.
Why are so many adoptive mothers so childish and immature? And WTF kind of
message is it to feel you have to wear a harness to stay out of trouble? "I
can't control myself, there is something wrong with me"???? Nice!
LuanneP
>internet will be a great thing for her to to discover. You niwit. This shit
>is
>stored forever in cyber abd kids go online very early these days.
No kidding, DM and I'll bet you anything that Betty "What's-Her-Name" lacks the
brains to delete posts from Google as well, but she sure doesn't mind shooting
her mouth off, regardless of the fact that it may hurt her case. I just don't
buy it, frankly.
Soulwhisper7
>Path: lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
>From: lips...@aol.com (Truth Be told)
<snip>
>
>Well I am sure seeing how her bgrandmother bashed her amother all over the
>internet will be a great thing for her to to discover. You niwit. This shit
>is
>stored forever in cyber abd kids go online >very early these days.
You were the asshole who posted names DM, it was not Betty!
>This child
>no doubt will beloyal to her amother as >this is the only REAL mother she will
>have ever known.
Loyal? or guilted? you can't know.
>I would be hard pressed >to believe she >will have much
>respect
>for you and may even be more damaged >by your actions.
Seems to me it isn't Betty's actions here that can be damaging, it was her
INACTION in allowing that adoption.
>She may never know
>about
>sexual allegations but now that you >blasted this shit all over the internet
>she
>wil now know for sure, OK wise ass.
If it weren't for you, bringing names into the mix, it would have been just
another adoption gone bad story...
Ya just can't allow a decent discussion here can ya...you always seem to need
to make it about you somehow.
Soulwhisper7
><20041028131533...@mb-m21.aol.com>
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>
>
>Again, 'Truth', I am not delying the validity of the use of a harness in
>certain situations. I believe that they are perfectly fine to use for
>keeping track of a child.
>What I question and have a problem with is that first, issues of humiliation
>about the public restraint of the child.
>Second, the childs equasion of herself with a dog.
>Third, the absoultely incorrect assumption of the child that she does not
>contorl her own behavior MUST be wrong.
>If a child believes that they can behave with a harness on it would indicate
>to me that the harness is used VERY MUCH, even when not necessary. Either
>that, or the child has been verybally reinforced in that idea.
>This child, any child, should be taught to be responsible for their
>behavior. They should be taught that they are in control of what they do,
>and that they will suffer the consequences of that behavior.
>What happens when the child, thinking that the harness is her 'control',
>blames somthing on the harness? 'It's not my fault, I didn't have my
>harness on'.
>She's four...not 1, and she is deveolping her sense of responsibility to a
>limited extent...
>Or maybe her harness is.
Very well said Betty! But trying to educate the ignorance here may make you go
blind...lol!
WitchWirsen
what one would not?
Can I see your juris doctorate please?
Nothing that I have posted has been malicious, nothing that I have posted
has been in conflict with the word, ideas, admission, or expressions that
the a-mom wrtoe herself...EXCEPT for my belief of the abuses or neglect to
the child.
I used no names, and I excouraged those with doubts to read posts
themselves.
I gave my user name on www.forums.adoption.com as reference.
I also gave the screen name of the a-moms spouse...nothing more...apparently
the 'friend' of the amom decided to do that, for her benefit I am sure.
I have not posted any slanderous statements, I didn't have to...only
pointing to the posts of the a-mom allowed her to slander herself.
I have posted my disagreement with the rearing pratices of the amom and
others as well.
I have freedom of speech, just like anyone else.
I think it ironic that you post about MY posts, and yet, for some reason,
you don't have a problem with slanderous posts made by the a-mom.
I don't allege anything MORE than SHE worte. If it appears that I
incriminate her it is because in her own posts she incriminates herself.
She alleges MUCH more than is either true, or she would have knowledge of
about us though.
But of course, you don't see anything wrong with that.
You make an issue of my grand daughter finding these posts later on in
life...yet you make no comment about the a-mom's posts and her use of my
grand daughters photo as an avatar on www.forums.adoption.com
How interesting.
You seem to be very concerned about the issue between myself and the a-mom.
Not about the issues that *I* am concerned about.
A spat is petty.
The thoughts and the feelings of someone who adopts a child that they are
supposed to be devoted to and loving of are not.
Until two weeks ago I was COMPLETELY confident that the a-mom took excellent
care of my grand daughter.
HER posts put doubts in my mind.
If you believe that my thoughts are not warranted, maybe you should think
about how you might feel and what you might think if you were the one
sitting in my shoes.
Dont' make assumptions and give legal advice. I pay good money for the
advice that I get. I know that free advise is worht what it cost.
That being said...you dont' need to worry about me and what I say...I'm not
stupid enough to do some things that others would, and I am certainly not
stupid enough to publish it where thousands of other could see it if I did.
I have not harrassed anyone. I wrote to the a-mom and told her that I did
not want any more contact with her and that is THE LAST communication I have
directed toward her.
I also wrote to her husband and that is THE LAST communicaiton I have
directed toward him.
That was several days ago.
I have not spoken a word to either of them by phone, nor have I written to
them.
Thanks for your free advice.
"LuanneP" <lua...@aol.comehere> wrote in message
news:20041028151910...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Donna in NC
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
I just said, Debbie - "Betty" won't do shit except for post online about
it. She has taken no action. Makes me wonder what the hell was going on
at her place that the kid was removed and why her 12-year-old daughter
got knocked up to begin with.
There you go 'assuming' again, Luanne. You're making an ass of
yourself!!!
Donna in NC
lips...@aol.com (Truth Be Told)
<snipping all the nonsense that was vomited by DonnaMarie>
..Betty is just making a big deal about it because of her own lack of
parenting skills. If she really gave a shit about the baby she would
have NEVER allowed CPS to remove her. If she was a good mother CPS would
have never been involved period. Betty couldn't take care of her 12yrold
daughter and couldn't take care of her grandbaby.
And just how would you know anything about 'parenting skills', you
fu*king C*NT? You and your crew have judged everyone here that you know
nothing about, DonnaMarie. I repeat - you know nothing, nada, zilch
about Betty so shut your nasty ignorant mouth!!!
Donna in NC
charges. So doctors saw signs of sexual abuse. You were never charged
with it so what is the big deal? Unless your feeling guilty and want to
clean it up before it surfaces. KWIM?
Oh, shut up with the bullsh*t, DM!!!! If you have to ask what's the big
deal about 'sexual abuse', you definitely have no clue!
Donna in NC
johnc...@mchsi.com (WitchWirsen)
Donna in NC
lips...@aol.com (Truth Be Told)
Well I am sure seeing how her bgrandmother bashed her amother all over
the internet will be a great thing for her to to discover. You niwit.
This shit is stored forever in cyber abd kids go online very early these
days. This child no doubt will beloyal to her amother as this is the
only REAL mother she will have ever known. I would be hard pressed to
believe she will have much respect for you and may even be more damaged
by your actions. She may never know about sexual allegations but now
that you blasted this shit all over the internet she wil now know for
sure, OK wise ass.
What's an 'abd' kid??...lmfao!!!!
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Betty wrote:
I'm just curious....how do you know what I WILL do and WON'T do? How
would you have any idea what I have DONE and have NOT DONE? Just to clue
you in a little, I have TWO attorneys.
Luanne wrote:
Have your TWO attorneys been told you have been shooting your mouth off
on the internet openly on these boards? I KNOW they would advise against
that.
..and you would know this HOW???
A friend of mind had a grievance with someone and began to yap about it
in various forums on the internet, but when it escalated, she had to
seek the advice of an attorney. The FIRST thing the attorney told her
was to NOT speak about it on any public forum on the internet,
specifically because it would have hurt her case. I don't think you
spoken with an attorney or that if you did, surely they would advise you
to keep your trap shut on this and any other adoption forum with a
pending case. It wouldn't go in your favor otherwise.
If Betty does keep her 'trap shut' who will you badger next? :-P
LuanneP
>what one would not?
>Can I see your juris doctorate please?
I didn't say I WAS an attorney but I do know if you had sought the services of
one, you would be told to keep your trap shut on any public forums. It's
obvious you just don't care or, as I suspect, probably don't have an attorney.
If you do, make certain you tell them how you've been posting all over various
forums on the internet about your case. I'm sure he/she/they will NOT
encourage you to continue on. You really shouldn't be talking about any
private case that you have open with an attorney over the internet. You hear
all the time about attorneys advising their clients to keep quiet about cases
until they are over and completed yet you just yap on and on, caring nothing,
which is why I doubt you have one, let alone TWO attorneys.
LuanneP
DM's smart enough to know an asshole when she sees one and Donna, you know damn
well that an attorney would tell a client to keep their mouth CLOSED until a
case is resolved and completed. I hope you have enough brains in your head to
realize THAT much!
LuanneP
>charges. So doctors saw signs of sexual abuse. You were never charged
>with it so what is the big deal?
Donna, what kind of mother sits back while their 12-year-old child gets knocked
up?? Have you asked yourself that??? You too, Les...you have a daughter
"Betty's" child's age. Something tells me that "Betty" isn't playing with a
full deck. What kind of mother lets their 12-year-old go unsupervised to the
point that they get knocked up? To me, it says a LOT about Betty......She
seemed to be getting married so many times, it's not a wonder she couldn't keep
an eye on her daughter.
LuanneP
>yourself!!!
>
So I take it that YOU see nothing wrong with a 12-year-old who got knocked
up??? Give me a break!! Les has a daughter that age and I'll bet she is
supervised enough so that nothing like that would happen at that age.
LuanneP
>of her grandbaby.
>
That's my point - I couldn't agree more. Apparently, Betty was too worried
about getting married over and over again...that "gotta have a man" mentality.
No time to supervise a 12-year-old, obviously.
WitchWirsen
"Donna in NC" <Donn...@webtv.net> wrote in message news:4452-418...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net...
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
That's just it, Barb....that ding-dong Betty WON'T call the police or
obtain an attorney.
>>Now I know that YOU are not calling anyone a 'ding-dong'...
All she does is complain about it on a newsgroup or an adoption forum,
which is making her look like an ass. Words on a newsgroup or an
adoption forum aren't going to do anything. Were it MY GRANDCHILD, for
starters, she never would have been adopted out but if she had, I would
do everything in my power to follow-up on her care.
>>Luanne, it's easy for you to say what you would do, but never having
been faced with such a situtation, I have to say that you don't know
WHAT you would do. You can spout off at Betty all you want and it
doesn't change the facts.
Obviously, Betty doesn't do shit except post on the internet and boo-hoo
about it. White Trash mentality. That's why I doubt her credability.
>>Betty, pay no mind to Luanne...She's just targeting YOU now instead of
Leslie, Mary or me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!
~ HAPPY HALLOWEEN~
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Oh, I realize much more than you can imagine, Luanne...lmao!!!
Donna in NC
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Don't read something that you WANT to hear into what I actually SAID.
What I meant was that you know nothing about Betty and yet you bash her
and question her abilities as a parent?
Soulwhisper7
>From: lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 20:55:48 GMT
>References: <4453-418...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028165548...@mb-m14.aol.com>
Truthfully Lu, I am just lucky that my daughter happens to be a major part of
my everyday life and I do not have to work. She also has a very sharp intuition
about people and refuses to sleep over anyone's house. She does not attend
after care, or any event or group without me or her brother...her choice.
But I do see many girls her age that are very independent and outgoing. Still
that doesn't mean anything. A young girl could get raped, she could be molested
while at a sleepover, during normal sex play that changes course etc...Many
parents have to work, or have lives and cannot be there to hover over their
childs every move.
All sorts of personalities exist. I think it is precisely your attitude and
lack of actual "hands on" experience that lead to the SS behaving the way they
did. All assumption and lack of experience. Did you know there is a man's life
ruined everyday due to that sort of narrow thinking?
Soulwhisper7
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:10:22 -0400
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>
>lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
>
>That's just it, Barb....that ding-dong Betty WON'T call the police or
>obtain an attorney.
>
>
>>>Now I know that YOU are not calling anyone a 'ding-dong'...
>
>All she does is complain about it on a newsgroup or an adoption forum,
>which is making her look like an ass. Words on a newsgroup or an
>adoption forum aren't going to do anything. Were it MY GRANDCHILD, for
>starters, she never would have been adopted out but if she had, I would
>do everything in my power to follow-up on her care.
>
>
>>>Luanne, it's easy for you to say what you would do, but never having
>been faced with such a situtation, I have to say that you don't know
>WHAT you would do. You can spout off at Betty all you want and it
>doesn't change the facts.
>
>
>Obviously, Betty doesn't do shit except post on the internet and boo-hoo
>about it. White Trash mentality. That's why I doubt her credability.
>
>
>>>Betty, pay no mind to Luanne...She's just targeting YOU now instead of
>Leslie, Mary or me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!
>
>
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> <marquee> ~ HAPPY
>HALLOWEEN~</marquee>
>
>
>
>--WebTV-Mail-4848-4950--
>
>
>
>
>
>
Actually, I think Lu would have made a damn good mother. She has terriffic
instincts. But people who never have had children tend to be very anal and
condemning and quick to judge because they lack REAL experience.
Soulwhisper7
>References: <20041028131533...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028170304...@mb-m14.aol.com>
And I would bet a huge sum of money that guilt is eating her up. My adoptive
mother bailed on me too, she went on a trip around the world rather than
supporting me. On her death bed she finally came out with the truth and it was
heartwrenching. I imagine that what Betty will endure within herself and with
her daughter will far outweigh all the harsh words spoken here. My heart goes
out to her. We do not KNOW why...
Donna in NC
Betty, I know that you had trust in your daughter and that you should
have been able to expect that a young girl of that age would have been
more responsible. I know that you miss the times that your daughter was
your 'little girl' and not a birthmother, too. The whole point of my
post to you was that, no matter who you are or what you do, Luanne and
DM will pluck your eyes out if there's a child involved...And all this
comes from two adult women that have never had children at all. They
have nothing to base their accusations on, yet they continually flog
anyone that dares to post something that they find controversial -
though I'm not really sure that DM won't need a Speak N Spell or a See N
Say to fully understand the meaning of 'controversial'.... **sigh**
Soulwhisper7
>References: <4452-418...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028165228...@mb-m14.aol.com>
Worse case scenario Lu: Betty's husband or boyfriend molested her daughter.
Does that make it Betty's fault??? Yes and no! You really should read up on
battered women, it is a similar syndrome that hopefully we consider before we
speak...no? Betty may be innocent and we are not a jury. She may have trusted
the dick and has since gotten rid of him...my point?...WE CAN"T KNOW.
Truth Be Told
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>lips...@aol.com (Truth=A0Be=A0Told)
OK Donna Gray the junky is now doing what she loves...fighting on an ng...Why
don't you get Bettys number and talk all about how terrible CPS is. You both
have whore daughters that breed abaies and neglect and abuse them.
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 21:40:41 GMT
>References: <20041028165228...@mb-m14.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028174041...@mb-m02.aol.com>
Oh here we go with the "poor me" victim shit. Bottom line these whores need to
eep their legs closed shut!
Truth Be Told
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Damn right on that. Luanne would NEVER allow her child to get knocked up. She
would be a more responsible parent. Something you know nothing about Donna
Gray.
LuanneP
>Leslie, Mary or me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!
>
>
I have no reason to target Mary or Les. As for Betty, I can see the truth and
I'm surprised you can't. I always thought you were somewhat smarter than that,
Donna. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that she is either a troll or
full of crap.
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
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>No problem Donna.
>Thanks for sticking up for me though.
>about.
>It's real easy to SAY things, but not so easy to be a mom trying to work =
>and take care of two kids living at home and three others elsewhere.
>inside...her pregnancy all came as a real shock.
>her best friend was this nice girl that lived around the block and they =
>still giggled when they talked about boys.
>such a good kid that I never thought she would sneak a boy into the =
>house while I was working and have sex and get pregnant.
>she will always help me when I am doing some kind of charity work, she =
>loves the children she had, she is very respectful of myself and my =
>husband, she's matured alot in the last year, and though her experiences =
>in life have been bad (due to her creating her troubles herself) she is =
>becoming quite the young woman...I'm very happy with who is is becoming.
>pregnant, I was investigated by DFS for neglect...it was unfounded.
>child who is almost 13 at home alone while they work a seven hour shift.
>that I was at work, and I often sent people over to check while I was at =
>work and make sure that the kids were not having parties, not out of the =
>house, etc.
>Uncaring parents don't do that kind of stuff.
>know what a mess that www.forums.adoption.com is and they are allowing =
>their own policies to be violated and are not taking up the =
>responisbility that they should when posts are made that they should be =
>reporting.
>I also don't like the adoption ads.
>Betty
>news:4452-418...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net...
>
> lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)=20
>
> That's just it, Barb....that ding-dong Betty WON'T call the police or
>
>
> >>Now I know that YOU are not calling anyone a 'ding-dong'...
>
> All she does is complain about it on a newsgroup or an adoption forum,
> which is making her look like an ass. Words on a newsgroup or an
> adoption forum aren't going to do anything. Were it MY GRANDCHILD, for
>would
> do everything in my power to follow-up on her care.=20
>
>
> >>Luanne, it's easy for you to say what you would do, but never having
> been faced with such a situtation, I have to say that you don't know
> WHAT you would do. You can spout off at Betty all you want and it
> doesn't change the facts.
>
>
>boo-hoo
> about it. White Trash mentality. That's why I doubt her credability.
>
>
>of
> Leslie, Mary or me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!=20
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>-----
>
>
> ~ HAPPY HALLOWEEN~
>------=_NextPart_000_0153_01C4BD08.8A2BA280
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><HEAD><STYLE></STYLE></HEAD><DIV>No problem Donna.</DIV><DIV>Thanks for
>sticking up for me =though.</DIV><DIV>You are right though, people shouldn't
>=talk about=20what they don't know about.</DIV><DIV>It's real easy to SAY
>things, but not =so easy to be=20
>a mom trying to work and take care of two kids living at home and three
>made=20many. She's a good kid inside...her pregnancy all came as a
>real=20shock.</DIV><DIV>I miss the days when she was an 'a' =student
>and=20never missed school and her best friend was this nice girl that lived
>=around the=20block and they still giggled when they talked about
>boys.</DIV><DIV>Time went by too fast, and I guess that =I was so=20confident
>of her being such a good kid that I never thought she would =sneak a=20boy
>into the house while I was working and have sex and
>say=20to her credit, like she will always help me when I am doing some kind
>of =charity=20work, she loves the children she had, she is very respectful of
>myself =and my=20husband, she's matured alot in the last year, and though her
>experiences =in life=20have been bad (due to her creating her troubles
>herself) she is becoming =quite=20the young woman...I'm very happy with who
>is is becoming.</DIV><DIV>I would like to note, for the benefit =of
>others,=20that when she got pregnant, I was investigated by DFS for
>neglect...it =was=20unfounded.</DIV><DIV>That is because it is reasonable to
>=think that a=20parent can leave a child who is almost 13 at home alone while
>they work =a seven=20hour shift.</DIV><DIV>Also, I was commended for the fact
>that =I laid down=20rules for the time that I was at work, and I often sent
>people over to =check=20while I was at work and make sure that the kids were
>not having parties, =not out=20of the house, etc.</DIV><DIV>Uncaring parents
>don't do that kind of=20stuff.</DIV><DIV>I really don't care much what anyone
>=says, only=20that I want everyone to know what a mess that
><A=20href=3D"http://www.forums.adoption.com">www.forums.adoption.com is =and
>they=20are allowing their own policies to be violated and are not taking up
>the =responisbility that they should when posts are made that they should
>be=20reporting.</DIV><DIV>I also don't like the adoption
>=ads.</DIV><DIV>Betty</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE=20style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
>PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
>MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>"Donna in NC" <<A=20
>href=3D"mailto:Donn...@webtv.net">Donn...@webtv.net> wrote in =message=20
><A=20
>=href=3D"news:4452-418...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net">news:4452-4
1=81522...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net...</DIV>
><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lua...@aol.comehere">lua...@aol.comehere
>=(LuanneP)=20
>
>That's just it, Barb....that ding-dong Betty WON'T call the =police=20 or
>obtain an attorney.
>
>
>>>Now I know that YOU are =not=20 calling anyone a 'ding-dong'...
>
>All she does is complain about =it on a=20 newsgroup or an adoption forum,
>which is making her look like an =ass. Words=20 on a newsgroup or an
>adoption forum aren't going to do anything. =Were it MY=20 GRANDCHILD, for
>starters, she never would have been adopted out but =if she=20 had, I would
>do everything in my power to follow-up on her care.=20
>
>
>>>Luanne, it's easy for you to say what you would =do, but=20 never having
>been faced with such a situtation, I have to say that =you=20 don't know
>WHAT you would do. You can spout off at Betty all =you want=20 and it
>doesn't change the facts.
>
>
>about it. White Trash=20 mentality. That's why I doubt her =credability.
>
>
>>>Betty, pay=20 no mind to Luanne...She's just targeting YOU now instead of
>Leslie, =Mary or=20 me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!
>
>
> <HR>
> <MARQUEE>~ HAPPY =HALLOWEEN~</MARQUEE></BLOCKQUOTE>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0153_01C4BD08.8A2BA280--
>
>
>
>
>
>That is easily solved Betty. You don't like adoption.com DON'T GO THERE. You
have a choice. I don't like lots of things online so I make a point to avoid
them. Not all adoptions are bad.
Truth Be Told
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My my my what have we here..an UNFIT mother convention!!!
Truth Be Told
WitchWirsen
My spouse was WHITE...my daughter is WHITE...you can see from the posts of
the a-mom that my grand daughter is hispanic.
White + White does not equal hispanic.
The father was a 15 year old boy who is of Equadorian heritage.
The DNA ordered by the state confim his parentage at 99.999% probability.
That's a pretty high rate. :)
I heard a rumor that his family is funding an attorney to help him reopen
the case on my grand daughters adoption on the basis that he was not ever
informed by DFS that his child was in care and that his parental rights were
violated so severely that the attorney they hired thinks he has a case also
for that.
Don't know for sure though.
I hear rumors too...I pay little attention to them.
Looking back I see that maybe taking a job that was during the day while she
was in school would have been better and then maybe she would not have
gotten pregnant.
I did talk to her about sex and I explained to her how thigns happen. I
was investigated and unfounded for neglect in the case.
I won't make excuses for her getting pregnant...I maybe could have prevented
it, maybe not....kids do things despite their parents best efforts to
control them, especially when they are 12, 13, 14 and so on.
I never condoned her pregnancy...only supported her after the damamge had
already been done. Like ANY caring mother would.
I've tried to be a good mom...I've made mistakes...
"Soulwhisper7" <soulwh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041028174041...@mb-m02.aol.com...
Truth Be Told
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What do you know about Betty except for she is UNFIT like you. I wonder if she
too is a junky
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 19:23:24 GMT
>References: <20041028141800...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028152324...@mb-m05.aol.com>
>
>
>
>>X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
>>From: lips...@aol.com (Truth Be Told)
>>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>>Date: 28 Oct 2004 18:18:00 GMT
>
><snip>
>
>
>>>> My exact words to her, keep in mind I >>>WAS MAD, were "If you are gonna
>run
>>>> away
>>>> like a puppy then I will tie you up like >>>a puppy."
>
>
>This is an abusive mind set.
>
>
>
>>>>Yes I got alot of dirty
>>>> looks, but these people do not have to >>>live with a kid like this.
>
>
>
>Behold the anger and demeaning message, and I suppose no one can imagine that
>the child can feel this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>I love
>>>> her
>>>> dearly, but sometimes I just want her >>>to be normal for a second to
>give
>me
>>>>a break.
>
>
>
>She doesn't feel the child is normal? Naaa, the little girl will not have her
>self esteem compromised living with this wonderful adopter!
>
>
>
>
>>>> Now she loves the harness. The other day we went for a walk with the dog
>>>> and
>>>> she thought it was great. She also >>>grabs it before we leave home alot.
>
>
>Oh ugh!
>
>
>
>
>>>>She is
>>>> always asking to wear it now because >>>it heeps her from getting into
>>>> trouble.
>
>
>
>Why are so many adoptive mothers so childish and immature? And WTF kind of
>message is it to feel you have to wear a harness to stay out of trouble? "I
>can't control myself, there is something wrong with me"???? Nice!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Les that is no different than you openly admittng to HATING YOUR ADD SON. How
soon we forget
LuanneP
>and take care of two kids living at home and three others elsewhere.
>My daughter madea mistake. She's
Huh??? 2 kids living at home and 3 others living ELSEWHERE??? Good Lord....
>Time went by too fast, and I guess that I was so confident of her being =
>such a good kid that I never thought she would sneak a boy into the =
Maybe you should have kept better tabs on her but then you were too busy
getting married and having babies yourself. <sigh>
> am doing some kind of charity work, she =
>loves the children she had,
Love the children she has HAD???? You mean, she's had more than ONE?????
Shit!
>I would like to note, for the benefit of others, that when she got =
>pregnant, I was investigated by DFS for neglect...it was unfounded.
Sounds like it was FOUNDED. They don't investigate someone for no reason at
all.
>DFS for neglect...it was unfounded.
>That is because it is reasonable to think that a parent can leave a =
>child who is almost 13 at home alone while they work a seven hour shift.
Obviously, you could NOT leave a 12-year-old child home alone. What kind of
woman are you??? You're a real PIP! Donna and Les, I am surprised you are
buying into the ignorance of this woman.
>Also, I was commended for the fact that I laid down rules for the time =
Obviously, your 12-year-old did not follow those rules since she snuck boys
into the house and found herself knocked-up. Why don't you have custody of
your three other kids?? Who are they by? Husband's #1, #2, #3 or #4??
Sheesh....
>Uncaring parents don't do that kind of stuff.
Caring parents don't leave kids home alone to get knocked up at age 12...not
ever. I am the oldest of six. I began to babysit at night when I was 14 and
the rest of my siblings were in bed. My mother would never leave me alone with
the kids before that. I was immature in incapable of handling that much of a
responsibility. I have a sister who works. Her daughter who is 14 just began
to stay home alone after school with my other niece, who is 10. I understand
that sometimes, it takes a husband and wife both to work but if you have kids,
you need to find someone to take care of them, OR you have no business having
kids - period!
Shame on you!
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 19:21:31 GMT
>References: <aOagd.22832$R05.15030@attbi_s53>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028152131...@mb-m14.aol.com>
>
>
>
>>No, actually, wise ass, I am concerned that because the allegations were
>>never investigated there may be a time in the future that MY GRANDCHILD
>
>Actually, WISE ASS, be sure to let your attorneys know that you are yapping
>about this "case" all over the internet because I am CERTAIN they would
>advise
>against it. Ask DM - she knows of someone too, who was told it would hurt
>their case were they to continue shooting their mouths off in various forums
>on
>the internet. This is why I don't buy it that you actually HAVE spoken with
>an
>attorney. Any good attorney(s) would advise you to shutup at least until the
>case came to an end.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Exactly and the person lost the retainer that they paid trhe lawyer because she
went against his advise.
LuanneP
>comes from two adult women that have never had children at all.
And your crap comes from someone who had NO business having kids at all, Donna!
Look at how your daughter turned out and gee? I wonder why? I didn't want this
to get all bitter but damn, how blind are you that you can't see what kind of
woman that this flake Betty is? She makes YOU look like Mother of the Year!
At LEAST you were smart enough to realize that you were incapable of raising
your oldest two...I'll give you that much.
Truth Be Told
><20041028151910...@mb-m14.aol.com>
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>
>
>
>You're an attorney and can tell me conclusively what one would avise and
>what one would not?
>Can I see your juris doctorate please?
>Nothing that I have posted has been malicious, nothing that I have posted
>has been in conflict with the word, ideas, admission, or expressions that
>the a-mom wrtoe herself...EXCEPT for my belief of the abuses or neglect to
>the child.
>I used no names, and I excouraged those with doubts to read posts
>themselves.
>I gave my user name on www.forums.adoption.com as reference.
>I also gave the screen name of the a-moms spouse...nothing more...apparently
>the 'friend' of the amom decided to do that, for her benefit I am sure.
>I have not posted any slanderous statements, I didn't have to...only
>pointing to the posts of the a-mom allowed her to slander herself.
>I have posted my disagreement with the rearing pratices of the amom and
>others as well.
>I have freedom of speech, just like anyone else.
>I think it ironic that you post about MY posts, and yet, for some reason,
>you don't have a problem with slanderous posts made by the a-mom.
>I don't allege anything MORE than SHE worte. If it appears that I
>incriminate her it is because in her own posts she incriminates herself.
>She alleges MUCH more than is either true, or she would have knowledge of
>about us though.
>But of course, you don't see anything wrong with that.
>You make an issue of my grand daughter finding these posts later on in
>life...yet you make no comment about the a-mom's posts and her use of my
>grand daughters photo as an avatar on www.forums.adoption.com
>How interesting.
>You seem to be very concerned about the issue between myself and the a-mom.
>Not about the issues that *I* am concerned about.
>A spat is petty.
>The thoughts and the feelings of someone who adopts a child that they are
>supposed to be devoted to and loving of are not.
>Until two weeks ago I was COMPLETELY confident that the a-mom took excellent
>care of my grand daughter.
>HER posts put doubts in my mind.
>If you believe that my thoughts are not warranted, maybe you should think
>about how you might feel and what you might think if you were the one
>sitting in my shoes.
>Dont' make assumptions and give legal advice. I pay good money for the
>advice that I get. I know that free advise is worht what it cost.
>That being said...you dont' need to worry about me and what I say...I'm not
>stupid enough to do some things that others would, and I am certainly not
>stupid enough to publish it where thousands of other could see it if I did.
>I have not harrassed anyone. I wrote to the a-mom and told her that I did
>not want any more contact with her and that is THE LAST communication I have
>directed toward her.
>I also wrote to her husband and that is THE LAST communicaiton I have
>directed toward him.
>That was several days ago.
>I have not spoken a word to either of them by phone, nor have I written to
>them.
>Thanks for your free advice.
>
>"LuanneP" <lua...@aol.comehere> wrote in message
>news:20041028151910...@mb-m14.aol.com...
>> >I'm just curious....how do you know what I WILL do and WON'T do?
>>>How would you have any idea what I have DONE and have NOT DONE?
>>>Just to clue you in a little, I have TWO attorneys.
>>
>> Have your TWO attorneys been told you have been shooting your mouth off on
>> the
>> internet openly on these boards? I KNOW they would advise against that.
>>
>> A friend of mind had a grievance with someone and began to yap about it in
>> various forums on the internet, but when it escalated, she had to seek the
>> advice of an attorney. The FIRST thing the attorney told her was to NOT
>> speak
>> about it on any public forum on the internet, specifically because it
>> would
>> have hurt her case. I don't think you spoken with an attorney or that if
>> you
>> did, surely they would advise you to keep your trap shut on this and any
>> other
>> adoption forum with a pending case. It wouldn't go in your favor
>> otherwise.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Betty you are full of shit. You are fueling this whole thing. NO attorney
would approve of this behavior if her were to take on your case. If you have so
much money to pay an attorney why didn'y you reatain one to fight for custody?
You didn't want the kids that's why.
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>References: <Wkcgd.23043$R05.4170@attbi_s53>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028164729...@mb-m14.aol.com>
>
>
>
>>You're an attorney and can tell me conclusively what one would avise and
>>what one would not?
>>Can I see your juris doctorate please?
>
>of
>one, you would be told to keep your trap shut on any public forums. It's
>obvious you just don't care or, as I suspect, probably don't have an
>attorney.
>If you do, make certain you tell them how you've been posting all over
>various
>forums on the internet about your case. I'm sure he/she/they will NOT
>encourage you to continue on. You really shouldn't be talking about any
>private case that you have open with an attorney over the internet. You hear
>all the time about attorneys advising their clients to keep quiet about cases
>until they are over and completed yet you just yap on and on, caring nothing,
>which is why I doubt you have one, let alone TWO attorneys.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I am sure the amother knows this by now and she probably is printing all this
out for her attorney. I hope she does. Maybe Carla will contact her and
advise her of her rights.
LuanneP
>>been faced with such a situtation,
You know Les, you are probably right about that....I wouldn't know what I would
do since I haven't been there. I do think however, that this "Betty" is a big
fat fake...something just doesn't strike me right with her story. I'm
surprised that you and Donna can't see it. I really thought the both of you
were brighter than that.
>Actually, I think Lu would have made a damn good mother. She has terriffic
>instincts. But people who never have had children tend to be very anal and
>condemning and quick to judge because they lack REAL
Again, I'll agree...I am not experienced enough to judge however, I think I am
experienced enough to spot a troll when I see one. Something isn't right.
This isn't really worth arguing about. I know one thing: If this was REAL and
let's say it was you or Donna involved - you certainly wouldn't be discussing
it on adoption.com or Usenet if you honestly had attorneys. You'd want to win
for the best interest of the child. Both of you know that an attorney would
tell her to keep her trap shut, which is why I highly doubt she HAS an
attorney. Hell, she's got a poopload of kids that she doesn't even has full
custody of. She spends an awful lot of time on the internet for a woman who
'works full time.' I also know Les that your daughter would NEVER turn up
pregnant at age 12. I think you are a better mother than that.
WitchWirsen
siblings.
Fortunate for my children, they were not forced to care for my other kids.
This will be my last post to you.
I don't feel you have anything of value to say.
BTW, Donna is supposed to be a bad parent because she could not care for her
kids?
There is a difference between bad parent and irresponsible parent, and
incapable parent...from what I've read you would not know the difference
because you are no parent at all.
Grow up.
"LuanneP" <lua...@aol.comehere> wrote in message
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 19:11:37 GMT
>References: <20041028132009...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028151137...@mb-m05.aol.com>>>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>>Date: 28 Oct 2004 17:20:09 GMT
>
>
><snip>
>
>>>
>>
>>Betty give it a rest and get over it already. > The child was restrained to
>>keep
>>from being abducted or hurt. It was used >for SAFETY.
>
>
>
>Damn DM, you sure are a mighty jet setter, you seem to be everywhere these
>days. Or are you just psychic? No one with average abilities could possibly
>make such a statement.
>
>Sheesh! I must be a real dummy because I know I wasn't there and I can't know
>or say for certain what went on.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I took the time to read the actual posts.
LuanneP
Probably the next troll that I see. I honestly thought you were much smarter
than this, Donna....Can't you see the forest for the trees? I give you FAR
more credit in your own situation than I would give to this woman and hers.
She can't be for real.
LuanneP
>brains in your head to realize THAT much!
>
>
>Oh, I realize much more than you can imagine, Luanne...lmao!!!
>
If you are agreeing with Betty the troll, than apparently you can't be too
smart, Donna.
LuanneP
>with!!!!
>
>
In other words, you'd condone a 12-year-old getting knocked up, huh? BS!
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 19:23:04 GMT
>References: <20041028143110...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028152304...@mb-m14.aol.com>
>
>
>
>>Well I am sure seeing how her bgrandmother bashed her amother all over the
>>internet will be a great thing for her to to discover. You niwit. This shit
>>is
>>stored forever in cyber abd kids go online very early these days.
>
>No kidding, DM and I'll bet you anything that Betty "What's-Her-Name" lacks
>the
>brains to delete posts from Google as well, but she sure doesn't mind
>shooting
>her mouth off, regardless of the fact that it may hurt her case. I just
>don't
>buy it, frankly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Lu,
Can you imagine this kid reading this shit about her amother. The only real
mother she knows and loves. I tell you I don't know too many people that would
hold respect for someone bashing their mother. I for one would hate the person.
LuanneP
>What I meant was that you know nothing about Betty and yet you bash her
>and question her abilities as a parent?
>
>
Did you read Betty's whole story? Like I said, she makes YOU look like Mother
of the Year!
Truth Be Told
>Seems to me it isn't Betty's actions here that can be damaging, it was her
>INACTION in allowing that adoption.
Exactly my point. OK thre damage is done, the kid got knocked up. Now momma
should step up to the plate and raise that baby herself and NOT allow CPS to
ever be involved in their lives. All that cash Betty says she is spending on
lawyers should have been spent to keep that baby and raise it from jump start.
Truth Be Told
>From: lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>References: <qedgd.23445$R05.739@attbi_s53>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028180836...@mb-m14.aol.com>
Gee I wonder what would have happened if she hadn't "laid down the law" Geez
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>References: <4451-418...@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028181058...@mb-m14.aol.com>
That's right at least Donna Gray was smart enough to abandon the kids cause she
knew she was strung out and wanted to party more than be a mommy.
LuanneP
>my everyday life and I do not have to work. She also has a very sharp
>intuition
>about people and refuses to sleep over anyone's house.
Les, couldn't this be because of the way you have brought her up? You should
give yourself credit where credit is do. You have a good girl because of the
way you brought her up - am I right? Yes, she IS lucky that you don't have to
work and can be a full-time mom. Honestly, I don't think you would have had it
any other way. I think that's why you had your 3 kids - because you knew you
could be a stay-at-home Mom and a good one at that but something tells me even
if you worked, you wouldn't have had to worry about Bailey. From what Donna
has told me, Christian is a good boy too, and never has caused her any grief or
reason to worry. Could that be because BOTH of you brought up your kids
right???
Now, I am complimenting you both here. Please don't turn it around into
something negative and hateful because I'm wanting you both to see the point
that I am attempting to make.
> A young girl could get raped, she could be molested
>while at a sleepover, during normal sex play that changes course etc...Many
>parents
This was not the case with Betty's daughter. She said herself she was
investigated by DFS for leaving a 12-year-old home alone while she worked to
"fend" for herself. In some states, I don't think you can do that. She
doesn't have custody of all her kids and why could that be??? Why would a
woman bring five kids into the world if she couldn't take care of them? That's
what I don't understand.
LuanneP
>siblings.
I was the oldest of six adopted. I was expected to help out. Anybody who's an
oldest child knows exactly what I am talking about. I'm not bitter about it at
all. I was my mother's right hand, as she always said herself, and I was proud
to help her.
>Fortunate for my children, they were not forced to care for my other kids.
That's because none of your kids are "together" in the same home. From what YOU
have said, they are scattered all over the place.
>This will be my last post to you.
Good Riddance, Troll.
>BTW, Donna is supposed to be a bad parent because she could not care for her
>kids?
Did I say that? I said that compared to YOU, Donna was Mother-Of-The-Year.
Donna has a son born years after the first two that she is VERY proud of. She
was young and in the midst of a divorce when she had the first two who were
only months apart. I'll give Donna credit - at LEAST she knew that she was
unable to care for her children and HOPED like hell that they went into a good
home and were raised properly. Unlike YOU, Donna's oldest two went into the
same home...they weren't scattered all over place with different fathers as it
sounds like yours are. You said yourself you have five kids and only TWO lived
with you, so where are the other three???
>There is a difference between bad parent and irresponsible parent, and
>incapable parent...
You allowed a 12-year-old to get knocked up so that says a lot about your
responsibility. I may not be a parent but it doesn't take a rocket scientist
to figure out that there's holes in your story...your kids are not even all
together....they're all by different men and you left a kid at home alone to
get pregnant at age 12...that says a LOT about you. Hell, when I wa 12, I
didn't even know what sex was??!!
LuanneP
>
Off Topic but DAMN.....we are good to our pets, aren't we DM???? LOLOLOL I
bought my Paige a bag of beef jerky today and she is sleeping on my bed as I
write this. She's turned into quite the Mama's girl. Oh, and she's "fixed" so
I don't have to worry about her going out and getting knocked up. ROFL
LuanneP
>obtained any other way.
What are you talking about? You exposed yourself, Betty. Now you're leaving
because you can't deal with the truth of everyone knowing who/what you are.
You have no lawyer either...you never had one and never will.
LuanneP
>Does that make it Betty's fault???
Yep, and God knows Betty's had enough husbands and boyfriends around...along
with five kids she doesn't even have complete custody of. No wonder CPS
checked her out and she quit posting to this group....
Donna in NC
And just how would you know anything about 'parenting skills', you
fu*king C*NT? You and your crew have judged everyone here that you know
nothing about,
DonnaMarie. I repeat - you know nothing, nada, zilch about Betty so shut
your nasty ignorant mouth!!!
OK Donna Gray the junky is now doing what she loves...fighting on an
ng...Why don't you get Bettys number and talk all about how terrible CPS
is. You both have whore daughters that breed abaies and neglect and
abuse them.
You really should try harder to restrain yourself, DM...You're WAY too
easy to manipulate...lmao!!!!
Betty, did you know that our daughters breed "abaies"???
Donna in NC
lips...@aol.com (Truth Be Told)
should read up on battered women, it is a similar syndrome that
hopefully we consider before we speak...no? Betty may be innocent and we
are not a jury. She may have trusted the dick and has since gotten rid
of him...my point?...WE CAN"T KNOW.
need to eep their legs closed shut!
That should be no problem for you, O Barren One!!! You no longer have
the 'proper equipment'...Only the BOX it came in...roflmao!!!! Though I
do have serious doubts that you even have THAT!!! :-P
Donna in NC
lips...@aol.com (Truth Be Told)
Betty, pay no mind to Luanne...She's just targeting YOU now instead of
Leslie, Mary or me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!
Damn right on that. Luanne would NEVER allow her child to get knocked
up. She would be a more responsible parent. Something you know nothing
about Donna Gray.
It's been so long since you and I sparred, DonnaMarie. I'm kind of
disppointed that you couldn't come up with something better than
this...lmao!!!
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Leslie, Mary or me...Luanne doesn't know jack shit about kids!
I have no reason to target Mary or Les. As for Betty, I can see the
truth and I'm surprised you can't. I always thought you were somewhat
smarter than that, Donna. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that
she is either a troll or full of crap.
You have no reason to target Mary or Leslie?? Then why all the
potshots??? And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what
you're trying to do here either.
Donna in NC
Betty, I know that you had trust in your daughter and that you should
have been able to expect that a young girl of that age would have been
more responsible. I know that you miss the times that your daughter was
your 'little girl' and not a birthmother, too. The whole point of my
post to you was that, no matter who you are or what you do, Luanne and
DM will pluck your eyes out if there's a child involved...And all this
comes from two adult women that have never had children at all. They
have nothing to base their accusations on, yet they continually flog
anyone that dares to post something that they find controversial -
though I'm not really sure that DM won't need a Speak N Spell or a See N
Say to fully understand the meaning of 'controversial'.... **sigh**
My my my what have we here..an UNFIT mother convention!!!
And this from the president of the 'NO Mothers At All' Club...:P
Donna in NC
What I meant was that you know nothing about Betty and yet you bash her
and question her abilities as a parent?
What do you know about Betty except for she is UNFIT like you. I wonder
if she too is a junky
Well, you can lay odds that I know more than you know about Betty,
Forrestina. My point was that you come here bashing people that you
know NOTHING about and without just cause...Got it???
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Lord....
>>Did ya ever stop to think that Betty might have adult children?
Maybe you should have kept better tabs on her but then you were too busy
getting married and having babies yourself. <sigh>
>>You have no reason to say this to someone you don't know, Luanne. You
know nothing at all about this woman.
Love the children she has HAD???? You mean, she's had more than ONE?????
Shit!
>>Stop with all the insane questions!
Sounds like it was FOUNDED. They don't investigate someone for no reason
at all.
>>Oh, but they DO...
Obviously, you could NOT leave a 12-year-old child home alone. What kind
of woman are you??? You're a real PIP! Donna and Les, I am surprised you
are buying into the ignorance of this woman.
>>Not so, Luanne! It's perfectly legal to leave a 12 year old at home
alone. Of course, in my opinion, it should be based on the individual
child.
Obviously, your 12-year-old did not follow those rules since she snuck
boys into the house and found herself knocked-up.
>>Knocked up?? Nice, Lu...Real damned nice...
Why don't you have custody of your three other kids?? Who are they by?
Husband's #1, #2, #3 or #4?? Sheesh....
More than likely...grown adults...
Caring parents don't leave kids home alone to get knocked up at age
12...not ever. I am the oldest of six. I began to babysit at night when
I was 14 and the rest of my siblings were in bed. My mother would never
leave me alone with the kids before that. I was immature in incapable of
handling that much of a responsibility. I have a sister who works. Her
daughter who is 14 just began to stay home alone after school with my
other niece, who is 10. I understand that sometimes, it takes a husband
and wife both to work but if you have kids, you need to find someone to
take care of them, OR you have no business having kids - period!
>>Oh, the Gospel According to Lu. Screw off, nitwit!!
Truth Be Told
>Newsgroups: alt.adoption.issues
>Date: 28 Oct 2004 22:43:21 GMT
>References: <20041028180209...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Message-ID: <20041028184321...@mb-m14.aol.com>
My little ones are eating London broil tonight. They had prime rib last week.
I also boiled up some boneless skinless chiken breasts for them. I like giving
them a variety. KWIM
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
comes from two adult women that have never had children at all.
And your crap comes from someone who had NO business having kids at all,
Donna! Look at how your daughter turned out and gee? I wonder why? I
didn't want this to get all bitter but damn, how blind are you that you
can't see what kind of woman that this flake Betty is? She makes YOU
look like Mother of the Year! At LEAST you were smart enough to realize
that you were incapable of raising your oldest two...I'll give you that
much.
No, now there was no reason for you to go in this direction, Luanne.
But you're wrong! I was capable of raising all my children, but then
you know that, don't you?
Of course you wanted this to get bitter - Why else would you have said
it?
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Luanne, it's easy for you to say what you would do, but never having
been faced with such a situtation,
You know Les, you are probably right about that....I wouldn't know what
I would do since I haven't been there. I do think however, that this
"Betty" is a big fat fake...something just doesn't strike me right with
her story. I'm surprised that you and Donna can't see it. I really
thought the both of you were brighter than that.
>>Leslie didn't say that, Lu, I did. But I'm glad that you agree with
me :-)
Donna in NC
johnc...@mchsi.com (WitchWirsen)
siblings.
Fortunate for my children, they were not forced to care for my other
kids. This will be my last post to you.
I don't feel you have anything of value to say. BTW, Donna is supposed
to be a bad parent because she could not care for her kids?
There is a difference between bad parent and irresponsible parent, and
incapable parent...from what I've read you would not know the difference
because you are no parent at all.
Grow up.
>>Hallelujah and Amen, Sistah Betty!!!!!
Donna in NC
lua...@aol.comehere (LuanneP)
Luanne, she IS 'for real' - Can't you see that? I'm really surprised at
you right now!!!!