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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 12:35 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:35:23 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 12:35 pm
Subject: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjVmN2E4MjQwZTZkMDgyNTZiMTIxNzhj...

November 7, 2009 6:00 AM

The Hole at the Heart of Our Strategy
We’re scrupulously non-judgmental about the ideology that drives
terrorism.

By Mark Steyn

Thirteen dead and 31 wounded would be a bad day for the U.S. military in
Afghanistan, and a great victory for the Taliban. When it happens in
Texas, in the heart of the biggest military base in the nation, at a
processing center for soldiers either returning from or deploying to
combat overseas, it is not merely a “tragedy” (as too many people called
it) but a glimpse of a potentially fatal flaw at the heart of what we have
called, since 9/11, the “War on Terror.” Brave soldiers trained to hunt
down and kill America’s enemy abroad were killed in the safety and
security of home by, in essence, the same enemy — a man who believes in
and supports everything the enemy does.

And he’s a U.S. Army major.

And his superior officers and other authorities knew about his beliefs but
seemed to think it was just a bit of harmless multicultural diversity — as
if believing that “the Muslims should stand up and fight against the
aggressor” (i.e., his fellow American soldiers) and writing Internet
paeans to the “noble” “heroism” of suicide bombers and, indeed,
objectively supporting the other side in an active war is to be regarded
as just some kind of alternative lifestyle that adds to the general
vibrancy of the base.

But he didn’t really need to “  it up” at all. He could pretty much say
anything he liked, and if any “red flags” were raised they were quickly
mothballed. Lots of people are “anti-war.” Some of them are objectively on
the other side — that’s to say, they encourage and support attacks on
American troops and civilians. But not many of those in that latter
category are U.S. Army majors. Or so one would hope. Yet why be surprised?
Azad Ali, a man who approvingly quotes such observations as “If I saw an
American or British man wearing a soldier’s uniform inside Iraq I would
kill him because that is my obligation” is an adviser to Britain’s Crown
Prosecution Service (the equivalent of the U.S. attorneys). In Toronto
this week, the brave ex-Muslim Nonie Darwish mentioned en passant that, on
flying from the U.S. to Canada, she was questioned at length about the
purpose of her visit by an apparently Muslim border official. When she
revealed that she was giving a speech about Islamic law, he rebuked her:
“We are not to question sharia.”

That’s the guy manning the airport-security desk.

In the New York Times, Maria Newman touched on Hasan’s faith only
obliquely: “He was single, according to the records, and he listed no
religious preference.” Thank goodness for that, eh? A neighbor in Texas
says the major had “Allah” and “another word” pinned up in Arabic on his
door. “Akbar” maybe? On Thursday morning he is said to have passed out
copies of the Koran to his neighbors. He shouted in Arabic as he fired.
But don’t worry: As the FBI spokesman assured us in nothing flat, there’s
no terrorism angle.

That’s true, in a very narrow sense: Major Hasan is not a card-carrying
member of the Texas branch of al-Qaeda reporting to a control officer in
Yemen or Waziristan. If he were, things would be a lot easier. But the
pathologies that drive al-Qaeda beat within Major Hasan too, and in the
end his Islamic impulses trumped his expensive Western education, his
psychiatric training, his military discipline — his entire American
identity. One might say the same about Faleh Hassan Almaleki of Glendale,
Ariz., arrested last week after fatally running over his “too Westernized”
daughter Noor in the latest American honor killing. Or the two U.S.
residents — one American, one Canadian — arrested a few days earlier for
plotting to fly to Denmark for the purposes of murdering the editor who
commissioned the famous Mohammed cartoons. But Noor Almaleki’s brother
shrugs that’s just the way it is. “One thing to one culture doesn’t make
sense to another culture,” he says.

Indeed. To infidels, Islam is in a certain sense unknowable, and most of
us are content to leave it at that. The vast majority of Muslims don’t
conspire to kill cartoonists or murder their daughters or shoot dozens of
their fellow soldiers. But Islam inspires enough of this behavior to make
it a legitimate topic of analysis. Don’t hold your breath. We’d rather
talk about anything else — even in the Army.

What happened to those men and women at Fort Hood had a horrible
symbolism: Members of the best trained, best equipped fighting force on
the planet gunned down by a guy who said a few goofy things no one took
seriously. And that’s the problem: America has the best troops and
fiercest firepower, but no strategy for throttling the ideology that
drives the enemy — in Afghanistan and in Texas.

When it emerged early on Thursday afternoon that the shooter was Nidal
Malik Hasan, there appeared shortly thereafter on Twitter a flurry of
posts with the striking formulation: “Please judge Major Malik Nadal [sic]
by his actions and not by his name.”

Concerned Tweeters can relax: There was never really any danger of that —
and not just in the sense that the New York Times’s first report on Major
Hasan never mentioned the words “Muslim” or “Islam,” or that ABC’s Martha
Raddatz’s only observation on his name was that “as for the suspect, Nadal
Hasan, as one officer’s wife told me, ‘I wish his name was Smith.’”

What a strange reaction. I suppose what she means is that, if his name
were Smith, we could all retreat back into the same comforting illusions
that allowed the bureaucracy to advance Nidal Malik Hasan to major and
into the heart of Fort Hood while ignoring everything that mattered about
the essence of this man.

Since 9/11, we have, as the Twitterers recommend, judged people by their
actions — flying planes into skyscrapers, blowing themselves up in Bali
nightclubs or London Tube trains, planting IEDs by the roadside in Baghdad
or Tikrit. And on the whole we’re effective at responding with action of
our own — taking out training camps in Afghanistan, rolling up insurgency
networks in Fallujah and Ramadi, intercepting terror plots in London and
Toronto and Dearborn.

But we’re scrupulously non-judgmental about the ideology that drives a man
to fly into a building or self-detonate on the subway, and thus we have a
hole at the heart of our strategy. We use rhetorical conveniences like
“radical Islam” or, if that seems a wee bit Islamophobic, just plain old
“radical extremism.” But we never make any effort to delineate the line
which separates “radical Islam” from non-radical Islam. Indeed, we go to
great lengths to make it even fuzzier. And somewhere in that woozy blur
the pathologies of a Nidal Malik Hasan incubate. An army psychiatrist,
Major Hasan was an American, born and raised, who graduated from Viriginia
Tech and then received his doctorate from the Uniformed Services
University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, which works out to the best
part of half a million dollars’ worth of elite education. But he opposed
America’s actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and made approving
remarks about jihadists on American soil. “You need to lock it up, Major,”
cautioned his superior officer, Col. Terry Lee.

But he didn’t really need to “lock it up” at all. He could pretty much say
anything he liked, and if any “red flags” were raised they were quickly
mothballed. Lots of people are “anti-war.” Some of them are objectively on
the other side — that’s to say, they encourage and support attacks on
American troops and civilians. But not many of those in that latter
category are U.S. Army majors. Or so one would hope. Yet why be surprised?
Azad Ali, a man who approvingly quotes such observations as “If I saw an
American or British man wearing a soldier’s uniform inside Iraq I would
kill him because that is my obligation” is an adviser to Britain’s Crown
Prosecution Service (the equivalent of the U.S. attorneys). In Toronto
this week, the brave ex-Muslim Nonie Darwish mentioned en passant that, on
flying from the U.S. to Canada, she was questioned at length about the
purpose of her visit by an apparently Muslim border official. When she
revealed that she was giving a speech about Islamic law, he rebuked her:
“We are not to question sharia.”

That’s the guy manning the airport-security desk.

In the New York Times, Maria Newman touched on Hasan’s faith only
obliquely: “He was single, according to the records, and he listed no
religious preference.” Thank goodness for that, eh? A neighbor in Texas
says the major had “Allah” and “another word” pinned up in Arabic on his
door. “Akbar” maybe? On Thursday morning he is said to have passed out
copies of the Koran to his neighbors. He shouted in Arabic as he fired.
But don’t worry: As the FBI spokesman assured us in nothing flat, there’s
no terrorism angle.

That’s true, in a very narrow sense: Major Hasan is not a card-carrying
member of the Texas branch of al-Qaeda reporting to a control officer in
Yemen or Waziristan. If he were, things would be a lot easier. But the
pathologies that drive al-Qaeda beat within Major Hasan too, and in the
end his Islamic impulses trumped his expensive Western education, his
psychiatric training, his military discipline — his entire American
identity. One might say the same about Faleh Hassan Almaleki of Glendale,
Ariz., arrested last week after fatally running over his “too Westernized”
daughter Noor in the latest American honor killing. Or the two U.S.
residents — one American, one Canadian — arrested a few days earlier for
plotting to fly to Denmark for the purposes of murdering the editor who
commissioned the famous
...

read more »


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Earl Evleth  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:01 pm
Newsgroups: uk.politics.misc, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:01:41 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On 8/11/09 18:35, in article 190ef5pplivlemeq0g0pdpc9i9t1vub...@4ax.com,

"FACE" <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> We¹re scrupulously non-judgmental about the ideology that drives
> terrorism.

Terrorism is driven by a number of factors. How does one categorize
the terrorism used by the French resistance against the Nazi
occupiers. Is defending one's country natural or due to
some complex ideology?

The territorial imperative is practice by many animals, they
never developed an ideology on anything.

Is the terrorist opposition to the Israelian occupation
of their territory due to an ideology, or it naturally
expected in that and other similar cases?

Many of man's socalled rational actions are driven by
deeper urges, ideology sometimes after that fact when
people try to make sense of the actions.

The targeting of the USA by Al Qaeda was initially
caused by US presence (Christian) on Moslem turf.
That American "threat" However "ill" Hasan is found to be,
he first of all did not want to go contribute to a war against fellow
Moslems. The Army should have realized this and not
force the issue and let him go.  He also had the possibility
of just walking away from it. So his responsibility for
what he did to innocent people remains, he did not have
to do that any more that the 9/11 terrorist had to do
what they did. Criminal acts are committed when innocent
are killed purposefully.

The situation is different when the intruder is in your
territory as is the case of Israelis and their occupation
of the west bank.  These are seen as intrusions, just
as American presence on Iraq and Afghanistan is seen
as that by some.


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abelard  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:13 pm
Newsgroups: uk.politics.misc, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: abelard <abela...@abelard.org>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:13:45 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:13 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:01:41 +0100, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

>The situation is different when the intruder is in your
>territory as is the case of Israelis and their occupation
>of the west bank.  These are seen as intrusions, just
>as American presence on Iraq and Afghanistan is seen
>as that by some.

are you promoting euro-suicide bombers in burnley and marseilles?

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


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Earl Evleth  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:26 pm
Newsgroups: uk.politics.misc, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:26:23 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On 8/11/09 19:13, in article pg2ef5dqfnlefeccf6j0rr7b88j96k2...@4ax.com,

"abelard" <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
> are you promoting euro-suicide bombers in burnley and marseilles?

No, I am not promoting anything, I am explaining

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abelard  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:29 pm
Newsgroups: uk.politics.misc, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: abelard <abela...@abelard.org>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:29:58 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:26:23 +0100, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

>On 8/11/09 19:13, in article pg2ef5dqfnlefeccf6j0rr7b88j96k2...@4ax.com,
>"abelard" <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:

>> are you promoting euro-suicide bombers in burnley and marseilles?

>No, I am not promoting anything, I am explaining

not anywhere that i can see

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


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Earl Evleth  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:40 pm
Newsgroups: uk.politics.misc, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:40:59 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On 8/11/09 19:29, in article qg3ef55fqn45v1597ium6orvt5umeqs...@4ax.com,

"abelard" <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
> not anywhere that i can see

Takes intelligence to understand the teacher.

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abelard  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:49 pm
Newsgroups: uk.politics.misc, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: abelard <abela...@abelard.org>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:49:04 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:49 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:40:59 +0100, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

>On 8/11/09 19:29, in article qg3ef55fqn45v1597ium6orvt5umeqs...@4ax.com,
>"abelard" <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:

>> not anywhere that i can see

>Takes intelligence to understand the teacher.

it also takes intelligence to notice when a teacher is incompetent

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


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Iconoclast  
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 More options Nov 8, 1:53 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: Iconoclast <iconocl...@nym.hush.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:53:59 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Nov 8, 10:35 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:

It seems that the TSA employees at JFK and Newark Airport are largely
of Middle Eastern origin as well.  It's like the fox guarding the hen
house.

...

read more »


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abelard  
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 More options Nov 8, 2:01 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: abelard <abela...@abelard.org>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:01:43 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:35:23 -0500, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
wrote:

thanx for posting it...
for assistance i've removed the section you duplicated

regards

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----

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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 2:45 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:45:37 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:53:59 -0800 (PST),  in alt.politics,  Iconoclast
<iconocl...@nym.hush.com>, wrote

>> What happened to those men and women at Fort Hood had a horrible
>> symbolism: Members of the best trained, best equipped fighting force on
>> the planet gunned down by a guy who said a few goofy things no one took
>> seriously. And that’s the problem: America has the best troops and
>> fiercest firepower, but no strategy for throttling the ideology that
>> drives the enemy — in Afghanistan and in Texas.

>Excellent piece.  Thanks for posting.  Scroll up to see comment midway-
>through the piece.

Glad you enjoyed it.  The official US response to this clear and present
danger should be a Monty Python skit.  I recall when mention was made of
the muslims in the TSA crews.  It exceeds ridiculous................

It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were not
terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
correct.

FACE


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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 2:58 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:58:56 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:01:43 +0100,  in alt.politics,  abelard
<abela...@abelard.org>, wrote

>On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:35:23 -0500, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
>wrote:

>>http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjVmN2E4MjQwZTZkMDgyNTZiMTIxNzhj...

>>November 7, 2009 6:00 AM

>thanx for posting it...
>for assistance i've removed the section you duplicated

>regards

Thank you.  I felt that something did go wrong in my cut and paste but
from the below it appears that you also removed page 2 which begins "But
he didn’t really need to “lock it up” at all. ..."

I was rather hoping that people would just go to the URL to read
it........

FACE


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William Black  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:07 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:07:36 +0000
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............

FACE wrote:
> It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were not
> terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
> correct.

Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones...

--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.


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abelard  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:10 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: abelard <abela...@abelard.org>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:10:05 +0100
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:10 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:58:56 -0500, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
wrote:

yeah well...you'll find you'd already put that in as para 3 :-)

>I was rather hoping that people would just go to the URL to read
>it........

i went to check when it go muddled

regards

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----

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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:17 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:17:56 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:07:36 +0000,  in alt.politics,  William Black
<william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>, wrote

>FACE wrote:

>> It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were not
>> terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
>> correct.

>Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones...

Read all the words William

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William Black  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:18 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:18:56 +0000
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:18 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............

FACE wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:07:36 +0000,  in alt.politics,  William Black
> <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>, wrote

>> FACE wrote:

>>> It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were not
>>> terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
>>> correct.
>> Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones...

> Read all the words William

'Almost all'.

I assume you have some figures about how many terrorists there are in
the world today.

--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.


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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:22 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:22:08 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:10:05 +0100,  in alt.politics,  abelard
<abela...@abelard.org>, wrote

LOL!  (at me)

>>I was rather hoping that people would just go to the URL to read
>>it........

>i went to check when it go muddled

Always a Good Thing (tm).


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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:25 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:25:42 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:25 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:10:05 +0100,  in alt.politics,  abelard
<abela...@abelard.org>, wrote

>yeah well...you'll find you'd already put that in as para 3 :-)

I finally looked back and yes, I made quite a dog's breakfast of
it........

FACE


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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:29 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:29:36 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:35:23 -0500,  in alt.politics,  FACE
<AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>, wrote

REPOSTED (and hopefully, straightened out)

November 07, 2009, 6:00 a.m.

The Hole at the Heart of Our Strategy
We’re scrupulously non-judgmental about the ideology that drives
terrorism.

By Mark Steyn

Thirteen dead and 31 wounded would be a bad day for the U.S. military in
Afghanistan, and a great victory for the Taliban. When it happens in
Texas, in the heart of the biggest military base in the nation, at a
processing center for soldiers either returning from or deploying to
combat overseas, it is not merely a “tragedy” (as too many people called
it) but a glimpse of a potentially fatal flaw at the heart of what we have
called, since 9/11, the “War on Terror.” Brave soldiers trained to hunt
down and kill America’s enemy abroad were killed in the safety and
security of home by, in essence, the same enemy — a man who believes in
and supports everything the enemy does.

And he’s a U.S. Army major.

And his superior officers and other authorities knew about his beliefs but
seemed to think it was just a bit of harmless multicultural diversity — as
if believing that “the Muslims should stand up and fight against the
aggressor” (i.e., his fellow American soldiers) and writing Internet
paeans to the “noble” “heroism” of suicide bombers and, indeed,
objectively supporting the other side in an active war is to be regarded
as just some kind of alternative lifestyle that adds to the general
vibrancy of the base.

When it emerged early on Thursday afternoon that the shooter was Nidal
Malik Hasan, there appeared shortly thereafter on Twitter a flurry of
posts with the striking formulation: “Please judge Major Malik Nadal [sic]
by his actions and not by his name.”

Concerned Tweeters can relax: There was never really any danger of that —
and not just in the sense that the New York Times’s first report on Major
Hasan never mentioned the words “Muslim” or “Islam,” or that ABC’s Martha
Raddatz’s only observation on his name was that “as for the suspect, Nadal
Hasan, as one officer’s wife told me, ‘I wish his name was Smith.’”

What a strange reaction. I suppose what she means is that, if his name
were Smith, we could all retreat back into the same comforting illusions
that allowed the bureaucracy to advance Nidal Malik Hasan to major and
into the heart of Fort Hood while ignoring everything that mattered about
the essence of this man.

Since 9/11, we have, as the Twitterers recommend, judged people by their
actions — flying planes into skyscrapers, blowing themselves up in Bali
nightclubs or London Tube trains, planting IEDs by the roadside in Baghdad
or Tikrit. And on the whole we’re effective at responding with action of
our own — taking out training camps in Afghanistan, rolling up insurgency
networks in Fallujah and Ramadi, intercepting terror plots in London and
Toronto and Dearborn.

But we’re scrupulously non-judgmental about the ideology that drives a man
to fly into a building or self-detonate on the subway, and thus we have a
hole at the heart of our strategy. We use rhetorical conveniences like
“radical Islam” or, if that seems a wee bit Islamophobic, just plain old
“radical extremism.” But we never make any effort to delineate the line
which separates “radical Islam” from non-radical Islam. Indeed, we go to
great lengths to make it even fuzzier. And somewhere in that woozy blur
the pathologies of a Nidal Malik Hasan incubate. An army psychiatrist,
Major Hasan was an American, born and raised, who graduated from Viriginia
Tech and then received his doctorate from the Uniformed Services
University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, which works out to the best
part of half a million dollars’ worth of elite education. But he opposed
America’s actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and made approving
remarks about jihadists on American soil. “You need to lock it up, Major,”
cautioned his superior officer, Col. Terry Lee.

But he didn’t really need to “lock it up” at all. He could pretty much say
anything he liked, and if any “red flags” were raised they were quickly
mothballed. Lots of people are “anti-war.” Some of them are objectively on
the other side — that’s to say, they encourage and support attacks on
American troops and civilians. But not many of those in that latter
category are U.S. Army majors. Or so one would hope. Yet why be surprised?
Azad Ali, a man who approvingly quotes such observations as “If I saw an
American or British man wearing a soldier’s uniform inside Iraq I would
kill him because that is my obligation” is an adviser to Britain’s Crown
Prosecution Service (the equivalent of the U.S. attorneys). In Toronto
this week, the brave ex-Muslim Nonie Darwish mentioned en passant that, on
flying from the U.S. to Canada, she was questioned at length about the
purpose of her visit by an apparently Muslim border official. When she
revealed that she was giving a speech about Islamic law, he rebuked her:
“We are not to question sharia.”

That’s the guy manning the airport-security desk.

In the New York Times, Maria Newman touched on Hasan’s faith only
obliquely: “He was single, according to the records, and he listed no
religious preference.” Thank goodness for that, eh? A neighbor in Texas
says the major had “Allah” and “another word” pinned up in Arabic on his
door. “Akbar” maybe? On Thursday morning he is said to have passed out
copies of the Koran to his neighbors. He shouted in Arabic as he fired.
But don’t worry: As the FBI spokesman assured us in nothing flat, there’s
no terrorism angle.

That’s true, in a very narrow sense: Major Hasan is not a card-carrying
member of the Texas branch of al-Qaeda reporting to a control officer in
Yemen or Waziristan. If he were, things would be a lot easier. But the
pathologies that drive al-Qaeda beat within Major Hasan too, and in the
end his Islamic impulses trumped his expensive Western education, his
psychiatric training, his military discipline — his entire American
identity. One might say the same about Faleh Hassan Almaleki of Glendale,
Ariz., arrested last week after fatally running over his “too Westernized”
daughter Noor in the latest American honor killing. Or the two U.S.
residents — one American, one Canadian — arrested a few days earlier for
plotting to fly to Denmark for the purposes of murdering the editor who
commissioned the famous Mohammed cartoons. But Noor Almaleki’s brother
shrugs that’s just the way it is. “One thing to one culture doesn’t make
sense to another culture,” he says.

Indeed. To infidels, Islam is in a certain sense unknowable, and most of
us are content to leave it at that. The vast majority of Muslims don’t
conspire to kill cartoonists or murder their daughters or shoot dozens of
their fellow soldiers. But Islam inspires enough of this behavior to make
it a legitimate topic of analysis. Don’t hold your breath. We’d rather
talk about anything else — even in the Army.

What happened to those men and women at Fort Hood had a horrible
symbolism: Members of the best trained, best equipped fighting force on
the planet gunned down by a guy who said a few goofy things no one took
seriously. And that’s the problem: America has the best troops and
fiercest firepower, but no strategy for throttling the ideology that
drives the enemy — in Afghanistan and in Texas.

~~~~

FACE


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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 3:32 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:32:24 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:18:56 +0000,  in alt.politics,  William Black
<william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>, wrote

Oh please............. (dripping with sarcasm)

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John Rennie  
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 More options Nov 8, 4:25 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: John Rennie <john-ren...@talktalk.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:25:57 +0000
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 4:25 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
William Black wrote:
> FACE wrote:

>> It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were
>> not
>> terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
>> correct.

> Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones...

And what about those buggers in 1776?

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Iconoclast  
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 More options Nov 8, 4:55 pm
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From: Iconoclast <goldst...@nym.hush.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:55:37 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Nov 8, 1:18 pm, William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

A proud graduate of Diversity Training joins the fray to let his
superiors know that his indoctrination in anti-Western thought was a
success.If the Muslims nuked London, William would immediately attempt
to minimize the horror of the holocaust by spouting out that the
Americans, long ago, nuked Hiroshima or some such PC nonsense.

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repo  
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 More options Nov 8, 5:14 pm
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From: repo <Kcajy...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:14:12 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Nov 8, 12:07 pm, William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> FACE wrote:
> > It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were not
> > terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
> > correct.

> Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones

There are No "Irish or Basque ones" Ect out of their
respective regions..... However,
Islamist terrorists are world wide in every country and region.


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FACE  
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 More options Nov 8, 5:30 pm
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From: FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:30:54 -0500
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:14:12 -0800 (PST),  in alt.politics,  repo
<Kcajy...@yahoo.com>, wrote

>On Nov 8, 12:07 pm, William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> FACE wrote:
>> > It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims were not
>> > terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
>> > correct.

>> Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones

>There are No "Irish or Basque ones" Ect out of their
>respective regions..... However,
>Islamist terrorists are world wide in every country and region.

Good point.  A  strained case could be made that "Shining Path"(if still
around) in Peru operates cross-border with Columbia and sometimes FARC
goes cross border -- but as i say, "strained".

(I believe it was Shining Path with the 'suicide donkey' a few years ago.)

Probably the most media-visible international terrorist who was not muslim
was Carlos the Jackal -- who, captured and while imprisoned in France,
converted to Islam. (Wonder what that says......)

I am wondering if this is the origin of the paraphrase I used (he makes
the qualification in the longish first sentence)..........

~~~~
http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/1941.cfm

The Sad Truth Is That All Terrorists Are Muslim

Abd al-Rahman al-Rashid, September 23, 2004

It is certainly true that not all Muslims are terrorists, however, sadly
we say that the majority of terrorists in the world are Muslims. The
kidnappers of the students in [the city of Beslan in the Russian state of]
Ossetia were Muslim. The kidnappers who killed the Nepalese chefs and
laborers [in Iraq] were also Muslims. Those who perpetrate acts of rape
and murder in Darfur are Muslims, and their victims are Muslim also. Those
who blew up civilian housing complexes in Riyadh and Khobar [Saudi Arabia]
were Muslims. Those who kidnapped the two French reporters [in Iraq] were
Muslim. The two women who blew up those two planes a week ago [in Russia]
were Muslim.

Bin Laden is a Muslim and [the rebel cleric in Yemen, Husayn Badr al-Din]
al-Hawthi is a Muslim, and most of those who carried out suicidal acts
against buses, schools, houses, buildings all over the world in the past
ten years also were Muslims. What a terrible record—doesn’t that say
something to us about ourselves, our societies and our culture?

These images are grim, shameful and despicable for us when we gather them
and lay them out together in one day [here in this article], however
instead of ignoring and justifying them we must first recognize the
validity [of this sad truth] and not compose articles and speeches
declaring our innocence. It makes it easier for us to treat ourselves if
we recognize the sickness. [For] self-treatment begins first by
recognition. Then it is incumbent on us to repudiate our terrorist
offspring, as they are a natural result of a distorted culture. Listen to
what television sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi said, publicly issuing a fatwa
giving permission to kill American civilians in Iraq. Imagine that, a
religious scholar urging the killing of civilians, a sheik who belies the
wisdom that old age supposedly brings, inciting the tender youth to kill
civilians, [and] all the while he has two daughters who are studying in
the safety of British protection in the infidel United Kingdom.

Article Continues

~~~~


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William Black  
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 More options Nov 8, 5:50 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:50:31 +0000
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 5:50 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............

John Rennie wrote:
> William Black wrote:
>> FACE wrote:

>>> It was a muslim imam or whatever who said that though all muslims
>>> were not
>>> terrorist, almost all terrorists were muslim.  He was so obviously
>>> correct.

>> Well,  except for the Irish and Basque ones...

> And what about those buggers in 1776?

When they ran about doing terrorist stuff they were getting thrashed.

When they got organised and bought some uniforms and hired a Germans to
teach them some drill and discipline they thrashed the arse off us...

--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.


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William Black  
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 More options Nov 8, 5:51 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, uk.politics.misc, atl.general, alt.activism.death-penalty
From: William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:51:47 +0000
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 5:51 pm
Subject: Re: Steyn on Fort Hood and Ramifications, leadups..............

Goodness, that was a mouthful...

Got any more gems like that lot?

If the Muslims nuked London, William would immediately attempt

> to minimize the horror of the holocaust by spouting out that the
> Americans, long ago, nuked Hiroshima or some such PC nonsense.

Nope,  just the usual bollocks...

--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.


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