PV and the New Class in America
Gaston
into ancient history to talk about Djilas' "New Class" treatise on
class structure in communists societies. This is hardly surprising
within the context of Marxist thinking that class structures will
develop around common interests. If a new power elite takes power
a subclass will be necessary to keep that elite functioning. It will
protect its interest from then on.
This work was originally published in 1957 in its English translation
version. It attracted particular interest by the American right around
1972 with the
publication of Michael Novak's article in Commentary. He developed
the theme of an American New Class. This was further developed
in the 1970s by Podhoretz. The idea finally surfaced in the WSJ
op-ed pages in 1975 with an article by Irving Kristol.
For Kristol the "new class" was
"scientists, teachers, and educational administrators, journalists,
and other communication industries, psychologists, social workers,
those lawyers and doctors who make their careers in the expanding
public sector, city planars, the staff, of the larger foundations,
the upper level of the government bureacracy, and so on".
The new class became a "bludgeon for the right", as described
in detail in a chapter of that title, by Ehrenreich in her book
"Fear of Falling".
The "new class" theme was heavily pushed into the 1980s but has
apparently died out as a right wing war horse in the 1990s.
The possible reason was perhaps the realization that the combined
total of the educated classes constituted the "new class". In the
1980s and 1990s this class voted, in a slight majority, for
Republicans
so this class was politically shared between the right and left.
Therefore, the right could no longer claim a conspiracy to destroy
American values, as they did in fact when the developed the new class
thesis.
American analysts have tended to treat the educated class problem
in a piecemeal fashion. They often have tended to atomise this
kind of analysis, not take an overall view. The recent book
"Bobos in Paradise" atomised the situation of a portion of the
"new class" or what I call the "educated class". Ehrenreich comes
closest to giving an overall view, and I have concluded that
she was able to do so because of her working class origins, she
was not blinded by being born into the class she later entered
through education.
Next, I view the birth of the "new class" with the GI Bill, which
strongly democratized American higher education at the same time
that anti-semitism died out as a barrier to both entering top
US Universities and their Faculties. The information revolution
helped. Things like the development of the arms system in the USA,
including the atomic bomb, forced the inclusion of highly educated
people who did not have class origins among the wealthy few.
Foreigners
had to be enlisted and intellectual diversity increased.
The 1960s and 1970s brought the "think tanks" in mass, these are
politicy institutes with particular agendas, but both the Government
and the Congress needed expert advice in setting public agendas.
What also occurred, and I have documented this in other postings,
is the progressive exclusion of the poor and middle classes from
economic improvement. The fruits of progress are now passing
directly into the pockets of the "new class". This is the flip side
of the progress and taking power of the new class. It is not sharing.
In not doing so may be the seeds of its own destruction of the
American working class wakes up.
In this sense, the new class in America (and Europe) matches
in some respect the New Class nomenclatura of communist societies
of the 1950s.
Earl
A Planet Visitor
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:87cf7cf7.01121...@posting.google.com...
previously unknown to you, has piqued your interest
enough that you've investigated it's history. It's good
to see a student researching his sources. You get
a gold star for effort, Earl. Unfortunately, your entire
analysis is flawed. The 'New Class' was an overnight
sensation AT PUBLICATION, given the fact that the
author had fought alongside Tito, was a lifelong
Communist and friend of Tito, and was clearly seen
as Tito's successor, second in line in Yugoslavia
ONLY to Tito, himself. I know I read it almost
immediately when it came into print, because of
previously seen critical acclaim for the book.
Djilas' fall from grace did not come about slowly.
His disavowal of Communism can be compared to
Khrushchev trying to become an American citizen.
Overall, a C-. Simply for effort. Care to try for
Hélène Carrère d'Encausse, who wrote the book
"Decline of an Empire - The Soviet Socialist
Republic in Revolt," published in English in 1979.
And originally published in France in 1978,
under the title "L'Empire éclaté."? Quick, back
to the sources so you can offer your opinion on
someone you previously knew NOTHING about.
PV
> Earl
>
JIGSAW1695
From: dev...@noos.fr (Gaston)
Date: 12/14/01 6:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <87cf7cf7.01121...@posting.google.com>
Earl
===============================
Earl pauses for a breath and then continues his lecture, unaware that those
students who have not left, have fallen asleep.
Earl
--
----------
Dans l'article <2K8U7.126585$oj3.22...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
PV, you are knee-jerking it again without going back and reading
more, just reaching into your memory for very old items.
> I'm glad to see that my mention of this book, which was
> previously unknown to you, has piqued your interest
> enough that you've investigated it's history.
No, I was way ahead of you on this one, as usual.
I read Ehrenreich's book before your referencing
referencing Djilas. Chapter 4 of her book "Fear of Falling"
is titled "The New Class, A bludgeon for the Right". I read
this book in the summer, along with the two books by Schor
on "The Overworked American" and "The Overspent American".
I believe I have shared my thoughts with you on these books.
She discussed Djilas as the initiator of the new class idea.
I remember reading it at the time, but it did not impress
me that much. What he was talking about is a normal class
development, I suspect Marcuse did a better job on putting
the "new class" into proper Marxist perspective but I have
not followed that up.
So, although you were stuck still in the 1950s and Djilas
"thing" had gone beyond that with the American right. Agreed, the book
had an immediate impact, but as Ehrenreich shows, the effect
on conservative thinking did not gel until the late 1960s.
You can tell when an idea like this matures when the WSJ op-ed
page picks it up, which is downstream by a number of years.
My main point is that the conservative right's exploitation
of the "new class thesis" reached its maximum in the early 1980s
and died off, no longer mentioned.
Why? Because the "new class" is, broadly speaking, the educated class, and
the very conservative thinkers who were pushing this theme were also members
of that class. On this realization, they dropped the issue. Anyway, you
will find the "new class" no longer mentioned in conservative thinking. A
google search will be unproductive!
Most members of a particular class are not enemies of their class.
This is an anxiom in Marxist analysis. So one ceases to
attack the class one is a member of. There are exceptions. Well-off
liberals or socialists are obviously class enemies. They work against
their proper class interests. The very existence of "class enemies"
is a dilemma to Marxist analysis, it is treated as a pathological situation.
"Class enemies" not only exist among liberals, there are poor conservatives,
the "chain kissers". Among slaves, this was common enough. I am sure
that in 1850 in your now liberated state of Florida, there were slaves
who defended the insitution of slavery just as there are today, the poor
who defend capitalism.
> It's good to see a student researching his sources.
As you now see, your comment was another example of how
you so often get it wrong! You record on being "right" is a slow
low that I suspect you have to take anti-depressants!
> Unfortunately, your entire analysis is flawed.
> The 'New Class' was an overnight sensation
I will repost Kristol's 1975 comments, nearly 20 years
after the publication of the book. Agreed, you conservatives
a slow witted, but 20 years!!!! And you remember the 1950s
but nothing later. Did you brain freeze up from then on?
> op-ed pages in 1975 with an article by Irving Kristol.
>
> For Kristol the "new class" was
>
> "scientists, teachers, and educational administrators, journalists,
> and other communication industries, psychologists, social workers,
> those lawyers and doctors who make their careers in the expanding
> public sector, city planars, the staff, of the larger foundations,
> the upper level of the government bureacracy, and so on".
Lastly, I provided my own analysis that the "new class" continues
to exist. Ehrenreich redefinds the "Middle class" as the working
educated class The really rich don't have to work.
I will also push the most recent book:
"Americaąs Forgotten Majority, why the White Working Class still matters˛
by R. Teixerira and J. Rogers, Basic Books, 2000.
Which deals with voting patterns in the US since the 1960s, especially
recently. They redefine the class structure in America more along the
patterns I do, the salaried educated classes and the working class groups,
with the underclass trailing behind. The reason to revise class designation
is because of the factor of wage stagnation or wage loss.
A book which I just got hold of "Repositioning Class, Social inequality in
industrial socieites" by Gordon Marshall (1997) will be the next object of
my intellectual curiosity. This largely deals with Britain, but cover
a number of countries with its statistics.
This reading sequence began long before your myopic comments on the "new
class".
If you can hold your own, join in, but you are going to have to do some
work, for a change.
No gold stars yet, sonny.
Earl
Earl
--
----------
Dans l'article <20011220015615...@mb-fd.aol.com>,
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) a écrit :
>
> Earl pauses for a breath and then continues his lecture, unaware that those
> students who have not left, have fallen asleep.
Sorry, jiggy, I should have written up a comic book version for you.
Earl
JIGSAW1695
Date: 12/20/01 5:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <9vsb5v$81g$1...@quark.noos.net>
--
Earl
===============================
preferably with nice color drawings, simple words and short sentences.
Gaston
----------
Dans l'article <20011220075126...@mb-fe.aol.com>,
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) a écrit :
> Subject: PV and the New Class in America
> From: "Earl" dev...@noos.fr
> Date: 12/20/01 5:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
> Message-id: <9vsb5v$81g$1...@quark.noos.net>
>
> ----------
> Dans l'article <20011220015615...@mb-fd.aol.com>,
> jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) a écrit :
>
>
>>
>> Earl pauses for a breath and then continues his lecture, unaware that those
>> students who have not left, have fallen asleep.
>
> Sorry, jiggy, I should have written up a comic book version for you.
>
> Earl
>
>
> ===============================
> preferably with nice color drawings, simple words and short sentences.
It is a problem. Either George Will or some American conservative of the
same ilk gave a talk once to a Lyon's Club in Arizona and one of the local
business men asked him
"Why to you use some complicated words"
Will or a Will ilk answered
"Because the ideas I have are complicated".
So the thing to do, Jiggy, is study up and not dumb down.
PV, you are included.
Earl
A Planet Visitor
"Earl" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vsb0u$7ra$1...@quark.noos.net...
>
> --
>
>
> ----------
> Dans l'article <2K8U7.126585$oj3.22...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
> Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
>
>
> PV, you are knee-jerking it again without going back and reading
> more, just reaching into your memory for very old items.
>
shown to be unaware of the existence of sayings that
show your original comment to be a farce.
Just to recapitulate -- You made the rather absurd
claim that -- "The only man I know who correctly
predicted the eventual collapse of the USSR (which
imploded on itself without a whimper) was DeGaulle
who said "Ideologies come and go, but cultures
remain the same.'
Now EVERYONE knows how stupid such a claim is,
seeing as how 'ideologies' can be applied to ANY
social structure. It is realized that such a statement
is absurdly simplistic. And I pointed out the names
of two very prominent figures who had most
pointedly DIRECTLY referred to Communism as a
system corrupt from within, and certainly destined to
disappear. One of those was Milovan Djilas, and
I quoted a direct statement from a work published in
the 50's which unambiguously and unequivocally
stated that Communism would disappear.
You now claim to have been familiar with that work,
yet somehow you failed to realize the implication
within that work which totally destroys your argument
regarding DeGaulle. If you KNEW of that work,
how could you possibly say 'The only man I know....'?
> > I'm glad to see that my mention of this book, which was
> > previously unknown to you, has piqued your interest
> > enough that you've investigated it's history.
>
> No, I was way ahead of you on this one, as usual.
>
Sure you were, Earl... sure you were. BTW -- the
logic train left some time ago... you missed it.
> I read Ehrenreich's book before your referencing
> referencing Djilas. Chapter 4 of her book "Fear of Falling"
> is titled "The New Class, A bludgeon for the Right". I read
> this book in the summer, along with the two books by Schor
> on "The Overworked American" and "The Overspent American".
> I believe I have shared my thoughts with you on these books.
> She discussed Djilas as the initiator of the new class idea.
> I remember reading it at the time, but it did not impress
> me that much. What he was talking about is a normal class
> development, I suspect Marcuse did a better job on putting
> the "new class" into proper Marxist perspective but I have
> not followed that up.
>
That's just so much crap.. and you know it. Go to google.
Go to AADP. Do a search on the ONE word 'Djilas.' You
will find that since 12 May 1981, there have been two
threads with the name - The original 'attitudes toward
America," and this newly created thread by you, hoping
perhaps to divert from the central argument thread. BOTH
of them in the past two months, since I first mentioned it.
You had no idea who that person even was... and you're
now scrambling desperately to catch up, and salvage what
little credibility you have here.
> So, although you were stuck still in the 1950s and Djilas
> "thing" had gone beyond that with the American right. Agreed, the book
> had an immediate impact, but as Ehrenreich shows, the effect
> on conservative thinking did not gel until the late 1960s.
>
Oh, crap. You can really get hysterical when pinned to
the wall, can't you?
> You can tell when an idea like this matures when the WSJ op-ed
> page picks it up, which is downstream by a number of years.
>
ho ho ho. Downstream along with your memory perhaps?
> My main point is that the conservative right's exploitation
> of the "new class thesis" reached its maximum in the early 1980s
> and died off, no longer mentioned.
>
You have no 'point,' Earl. You're just out to obscure
the central argument, hoping to extract yourself
from a very deep well of confusion. You HATE to be
beaten, but in this particular case, you have been
thoroughly thrashed.
<really immaterial garbage clipped. And yet Earl claims
that 'I' stray from the subject>
>
> > It's good to see a student researching his sources.
>
> As you now see, your comment was another example of how
> you so often get it wrong! You record on being "right" is a slow
> low that I suspect you have to take anti-depressants!
>
Un huh. It seems to me that YOU got it wrong, in
your analysis of DeGaulle's comment. You'll not
raise your grade with me, by arguing the content
after you've already submitted your paper, Earl.
It's an 'F,' and it will stay an 'F.'
> > Unfortunately, your entire analysis is flawed.
> > The 'New Class' was an overnight sensation
>
> I will repost Kristol's 1975 comments, nearly 20 years
> after the publication of the book. Agreed, you conservatives
> a slow witted, but 20 years!!!! And you remember the 1950s
> but nothing later. Did you brain freeze up from then on?
>
Please don't embarrass yourself any further in this
dialog, Earl. You're just starting to look MORE stupid
and pigheaded. I do not CARE, and your present
argument is not germane to the issue. The issue IS that
Djilas had stated the Communist system would pass from
the historical scene. If you KNEW of this, how could
you make the statement that you did regarding DeGaulle?
Certainly 'I' knew of the existence of the work of Djilas,
what was YOUR problem?
<recommended reading list from Earl (doesn't he ALWAYS
have one?) clipped>
> This reading sequence began long before your myopic comments on the "new class".
>
Yet you did not know of the EXISTENCE of the work.
That is plain to see.
> If you can hold your own, join in, but you are going to
> have to do some work, for a change.
>
> No gold stars yet, sonny.
>
Okay... give it back. Apparently you didn't deserve it,
since your research was 'after the fact.'
PV
> Earl
Gaston
----------
Dans l'article <YrnU7.132876$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
> Yet you did not know of the EXISTENCE of the work.
> That is plain to see.
Don't be silly, PV, everybody heard of the of the work
who has done any reading. His work is just not that
important now, depassé, like your ideas.
The difference between you and me is that I had gone ahead
and you haven't. I hadn't run into a recent reference of Djilas
work until this last summer, as I said. Ehrenreich covered
the recent history of the "new class" concept and I reported on
that. I was doing you a favor, updating you. But know, you
got all hung up on this.
Basically, you echoed my comments too quickly, not planning
on reading any references I gave you. You keep knee jerking
and digging yourself in deeper. Your not being up to date
and still in the 1950s shows the shallow level of your
intellectualism, you are a phony, just like your name, Planet Visitor.
In fact you use of a phony name telegraphed that from the first
time I "met" you on the web.
I repeat.
>> If you can hold your own, join in, but you are going to
>> have to do some work, for a change.
You haven`t held your own, sonny.
Earl
JIGSAW1695
Date: 12/20/01 10:03 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <9vsr3f$n1$1...@quark.noos.net>
PV, you are included.
Earl
===============================
Naw, to much trouble. I rather drink beer and chase women. BTW, am I speaking
with Earl or his dawg.
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> wrote in message
news:YrnU7.132876$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
As it has never appeared it cannot disappear.
First time I went to Russia was in 1952 whilst
Stalin was still alive. The USSR was a totalitarian
state that used communism as a cloak to cover
it's gangster activities. Because that is what
Stalin and his cronies were, just a gang. Much
like Hitler and his gang who used fascism in
much the same way. I mistakenly thought
that after Khrushchev's speech in 1956 reality
would pierce the gloom - it didn't and now
the 'market' is triumphant which pleases PV
no end but terrifies me.
Gaston
--
----------
Dans l'article <9vt316$bgt$1...@quark.noos.net>, "Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> a
écrit :
>> Yet you did not know of the EXISTENCE of the work.
>> That is plain to see.
This is an update on PV distorted comment.
I first posted on the "new class" and Ehrenreich's work on Nov 2, in
soc.retirement. I think this predates any "new class" discussion on
this newsgroup in the Fall, I found no older referencing to it.
This can be found by doing a google search soc.retirement.
I did not get involved with PV's stupidities about Djilas a little bit
after than on this news group (he mentioned Djilas in mid-November)
because honestly, Djilas is now passé, he is history. He was of interest
as a participant in events but not a great thinker like Herbert Marcuse.
As I explained, the "new class" theme was of interest to the "new right" in
American in the 1970s and 80s but that too seems to have been dropped.
My opinion is that they, like Pogo, found the "enemy" and the "enemy is us".
We have had embarassed silence from the right since!
Here is what I wrote Nov 2, then in responding to another person--
By the way, I mention C. Wright Mills, and his thesis of the "power elite"
is still accepted. You punch "power elite" into Google and the first name
you come up with is, guess? C. Wright Mills. He had a huge impact.
You punch "new class" into Google, and guess what you come up with.
Nothing but a new class of this or that. No first mention of Djilas.
Djilas and his new class was a passing thing. No long term impact.
It impressed PV, but then he is easily impressed by the relatively
insignificant.
Earl
*********
In the classical use of the term, as developed first by C. Wright Mills
in his 1960 book of the same title, the power elite only comprises
of a few thousand individuals, power residing in their control of
money and capital.
As for political evolution in the USA, since WWII, I would recommend
Ehrenreich`s book "Fear of Falling" which takes one up to the late 1980s
when it was published. Being from a working class origin she gives
a better analysis that those coming from an educated middle
class scholar of the same social origins. This latter class expanded after
WWII (I think the GI bill had a big impact on starting the process). The
educated middle class is neither fully liberal nor conservative.
Conservative intellectuals in the USA used the term "new class" in the
1970s and assumed that it was all liberal. It was not, they themselves
were members of that class!
In fact, looking at voting patterns, the educated class has evolved in
classic ways towards one not being particularly liberal (except in local
politics). Most are not class traitors. The working class is interested
in bread and butter issues and has been left out of expansion in income
during the 1970-2000 period, real wages have dropped for them and
they vote democratic, although are not liberal. The main benefit of the
economic expansions in this period has been the educated middle class
and the authentically rich (rich being defined by "not having to work").
Ehrenreich takes her reader through the discovery of poverty in the 1960s
and the working class slightly later by the educated class. There was a
general assumption in the later 1950s, even by "scholars", that poverty had
been eliminated, except for a few isolated pockets. The Johnson "war on
poverty", which only lasted a few years, was a result of this sudden
realization. This was during a high period of American "liberalism", when
people were thinking about others than themselves. Ehrenreich argues
that the "permissiveness" debate introduced by conservative (it was a big
rallying cry of Agnew, for instance), was ironic since consumptive
permissiveness has ruled the society every since, and the decline into
egocentric "greed is good" conservatism.
Marxism dictates the idea that only self-interest exists. If so, wealthy
liberals should not exist. They do, and that challenges Marxist economic
determinism. Liberalism possibly exists because of the influence
of the higher educational system which takes people away from themselves
into a broader social world. Travel may to this also. Whatever, the
mystery is why liberalism (or progressive attitudes) exist at all?
> The liberals are all altruistic impoverished saints, who during their terms in
> power use their talents only for good, not the evil that is the conservatives
> forte'.
Here again, one should not confused the composition of the power elite, a
few thousand who are members of corporate boards of directors etc, with
the political "elite". The latter are dependent for money from the latter.
Moral prostitution results.
Indeed, I would tend not to class Bush, who is not that rich as not part of
the monied and corporate elite, but more of a puppet. Cheney comes closer
but the people behind these two are more likely to be power elitist.
The power elite control, with money, jobs, positions, the working educated
middle class who service their interests which are the interests of the
upper ranges of American capitalism. Likewise, as Moyer`s complains, they
control the Government. Of course, in a democracy, this can be turned
around at the voting booth, it was in the 1930s when a class traitor,
Roosevelt, did so. The dismal aspect of a Marxist interpretation is that
liberalism can only be temporary. An illusion, eventually the battle
will occur between the underpaid poor and working classes and the
capitalist class. Since the educated middle class has allign itself with
the latter, they will serve as the foot soldiers in the class war.
A Planet Visitor
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vt316$bgt$1...@quark.noos.net...
>
>
> ----------
> Dans l'article <YrnU7.132876$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
> Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
>
>
> > Yet you did not know of the EXISTENCE of the work.
> > That is plain to see.
>
> Don't be silly, PV, everybody heard of the of the work
> who has done any reading. His work is just not that
> important now, depassé, like your ideas.
>
make the claim that you made in regards to DeGaulle's
simplistic remark??
> The difference between you and me is that I had gone ahead
> and you haven't.
Gone ahead 'downstream' with that memory of yours,
perhaps?? Is English ACTUALLY your mother-tongue?
I hadn't run into a recent reference of Djilas
> work until this last summer, as I said. Ehrenreich covered
> the recent history of the "new class" concept and I reported on
> that. I was doing you a favor, updating you. But know, you
> got all hung up on this.
>
Who the hell CARES who Ehrenreich is, or what he has
to say a full 40 YEARS after the publication of the book?
Clearly you wish only to hawk Ehrenreich himself, when
he is simply a leftist, pinko piece of crap, if YOU'VE
recommended him. You dismiss Djilas and MIT, both
of monumental importance, while praising some leftist,
pinko.
> Basically, you echoed my comments too quickly, not planning
> on reading any references I gave you.
Why bother... Of what import is it to read leftist leaning,
pinko rags? You need to read books from authors
who DISAGREE with the principles that they formerly
held. or the society they are within. That demonstrates
a certain objectivity. People who have such courage
of their convictions that they risk punishment by publishing.
Essentially - 'Publish AND perish.' That's so self-evident
I can't see how you'd miss it. Think of Solzhenitsyn,
Pasternak, Rousseau, Sakharov, and Oppenheimer.
and literally hundreds of others, willing to risk everything.
And think of Djilas. Think of men who risked it all,
to have a voice contrary to public policy of the society
they were members of. Rather than some idiot that
is simply feeding off people like yourself. I see very
little of that risk coming from the Continent lately. I
truly see a continent that is falling asleep in complacency.
And that can be a VERY dangerous situation.
> You keep knee jerking
> and digging yourself in deeper. Your not being up to date
> and still in the 1950s shows the shallow level of your
> intellectualism, you are a phony, just like your name, Planet Visitor.
> In fact you use of a phony name telegraphed that from the first
> time I "met" you on the web.
>
The argument, sport, revolved about YOUR claim that
"The only man I know who correctly predicted the
eventual collapse of the USSR (which imploded on
itself without a whimper) was DeGaulle who said
"Ideologies come and go, but cultures remain the
same.'
Obviously, sport, you are now trying to HIDE your
ignorance in that respect, since IF you knew of the
existence of 'The New Class,' you would certainly
not have made that absurd observation. You are the
only one digging yourself deeper here, coco.
> I repeat.
>
> >> If you can hold your own, join in, but you are going to
> >> have to do some work, for a change.
>
> You haven`t held your own, sonny.
>
Holding my own with you, is hardly an effort, coco.
Someone who would argue that he provides a 'reading
list' is obviously not wrapped very tightly. Perhaps
next you'll begin recommending books on 'Oprah's Best
Picks' list.
PV
> Earl
>
>
A Planet Visitor
"Earl" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vsb5v$81g$1...@quark.noos.net...
You just haven't realized that yet.
PV
> Earl
>
A Planet Visitor
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vsr3f$n1$1...@quark.noos.net...
idea. I don't think that's sunk in to you yet. Apparently
no matter how often I lead you to the fountain of
knowledge, you never do anything but gargle.
PV
> Earl
>
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) wrote:
> Naw, to much trouble. I rather drink beer and chase women.
Rather fun, isn't it?
You're getting far too old for that though, Jiggy. Surely you'd be
better off drinking beer and sitting on the rocker on your front porch...
Mr Q. Z. D. ((o))
---- ((O))
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"My parents always told me I could be what I wanted to be.
So I became a complete bastard."
Gaston
----------
Dans l'article <G%oU7.5313$4z5.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, "John
Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a écrit :
> As it has never appeared it cannot disappear.
> First time I went to Russia was in 1952 whilst
> Stalin was still alive. The USSR was a totalitarian
> state that used communism as a cloak to cover
> it's gangster activities. Because that is what
> Stalin and his cronies were, just a gang. Much
> like Hitler and his gang who used fascism in
> much the same way. I mistakenly thought
> that after Khrushchev's speech in 1956 reality
> would pierce the gloom - it didn't and now
> the 'market' is triumphant which pleases PV
> no end but terrifies me.
My point, of course, had nothing to do with this. Djilas was part of a
system, he changed his position when practice did not match his ideology.
This was true with modern Trostkyites who professed a form of democratic
communism. Since they never arrived in power anywhere, nobody knows
of their promises would be kept.
Power changes mentalities, we see the transformation occurring the in the
USA from an administration which professed less government to one asking
for military tribunals.
Class structures were altered in communist societies in a fashion
anticipated but any rational application of social theory which had
a sufficient dose of Marxism to realize what vested interests will do
to people. The communists expected a classless society but they
created one that was bound to have classes. Those classes could
not be as before, so "new classes" had to arise.
In that sense, nothing that Djilas said was surprising.
Marcuse's analyses are more profound, saying things we might not
have thought up on our individual own. Mainly that modern
industrial societies are on the course of convergent social evolution
in terms of human dimensionality, the degree of freedom within
each society. This analysis anticipated sociological realignment
and the arise of "new classes" in all of these societies. Djilas
anticipated nothing, he reported his disappointment, he was
a reporter. Marcuse anticipated change, predicted its direction.
Earl
Gaston
----------
Dans l'article <20011220112633...@mb-fj.aol.com>,
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) a écrit :
> Naw, to much trouble. I rather drink beer and chase women. BTW, am I speaking
> with Earl or his dawg.
Gaston always signs his name, Gaston, Earl always signs his name Earl
Earl
JIGSAW1695
From: "Mr Q. Z. Diablo" dia...@prometheus.humsoc.utas.edu.au
Date: 12/20/01 5:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <diablo-43CCBF....@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
In article <20011220112633...@mb-fj.aol.com>,
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) wrote:
> Naw, to much trouble. I rather drink beer and chase women.
Rather fun, isn't it?
You're getting far too old for that though, Jiggy. Surely you'd be
better off drinking beer and sitting on the rocker on your front porch...
===============================
Dont got no rocker, dont got no front porch. Only a balcony. And yea, maybe I
would be bettter off.
But I would still rather drink beer and chase women.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 12/20/01 5:47 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <9vtma5$mjg$1...@neon.noos.net>
Earl
-==============================
In that case Gaston, in reply to your message:
Woof woof woof bark bark growl. Woof?
Bark bark barkwoof bark bark grrrrr.
Translated into French:
Bark Woof bark bark bark bark. Woof?
Growl, grrr bark bark growl bark bark.
Your non-canine Buddy
Jigsaw
A Planet Visitor
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vtm0c$ljs$1...@neon.noos.net...
>
> ----------
> Dans l'article <G%oU7.5313$4z5.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, "John
> Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a écrit :
>
>
> > As it has never appeared it cannot disappear.
> > First time I went to Russia was in 1952 whilst
> > Stalin was still alive. The USSR was a totalitarian
> > state that used communism as a cloak to cover
> > it's gangster activities. Because that is what
> > Stalin and his cronies were, just a gang. Much
> > like Hitler and his gang who used fascism in
> > much the same way. I mistakenly thought
> > that after Khrushchev's speech in 1956 reality
> > would pierce the gloom - it didn't and now
> > the 'market' is triumphant which pleases PV
> > no end but terrifies me.
>
> My point, of course, had nothing to do with this. Djilas was part of a
> system, he changed his position when practice did not match his ideology.
> This was true with modern Trostkyites who professed a form of democratic
> communism. Since they never arrived in power anywhere, nobody knows
> of their promises would be kept.
>
I brought up the name, and you needed to play
catch-up.
<crap clipped yet again>
What a crock, Earl... All of sudden you are well aware
of Djilas... You've only been playing catch-up,
having been caught with your pants down, and now
need to try and disavow the man with some total nonsense.
Quite seriously, your statement WAS -- "The only
man I know who correctly predicted the eventual
collapse of the USSR (which imploded on itself without
a whimper) was DeGaulle who said "Ideologies
come and go, but cultures remain the same.' Now,
if you knew SO MUCH about 'the new class' and
Djilas, how could you make such a stupid claim?
But continue on with 'Earl's book selection of the
day.' It's all transparent fraud... and you know it.
You never have been able to fess up to your
shortcomings, and I never expect you will.
PV
Just to bring you up to date on WHO he was,
and how much more valuable his insight is
than some nonentities such as Herbert Marcuse,
Ehrenreich, or C. Wright Mills which NO ONE
cares about except you... take a look at these
for a real man -- with a REAL idea.
http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/18/oct99/djilas.htm
http://www.ralphmag.org/djilasZA.html
http://cwihp.si.edu/CWIHPlib.nsf/e7b8938c6eedaba4852564a7007a887a/b968caf1ea9329df852566430079806f?OpenDocument
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~kritika/NeMarCom.htm
http://www.bosnet.org/archive/bosnet.w3archive/9504/msg00116.html
This last calls his book one of the 900 great books of
all time. Where do your boy's fit in?
http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/900GreatBooks.html
And to John -- To the credit of the U.K. when Milovan Djilas
was released from prison in 1966, no American diplomat
made contact with him. The British embassy, on the
other hand, met Djilas frequently.
PV
> Earl
>
>
>
JIGSAW1695
Message-id: <9vtm0c$ljs$1...@neon.noos.net>
Earl
===============================
ah, come on Earl, you promised little words the next time you got up to the
lectern.
A Planet Visitor
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vt8d0$cq7$1...@neon.noos.net...
>
> Dans l'article <9vt316$bgt$1...@quark.noos.net>, "Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> a
> écrit :
>
> >> Yet you did not know of the EXISTENCE of the work.
> >> That is plain to see.
>
> This is an update on PV distorted comment.
>
of the work of Djilas.
> I first posted on the "new class" and Ehrenreich's work on Nov 2, in
> soc.retirement. I think this predates any "new class" discussion on
> this newsgroup in the Fall, I found no older referencing to it.
>
> This can be found by doing a google search soc.retirement.
> I did not get involved with PV's stupidities about Djilas a little bit
> after than on this news group (he mentioned Djilas in mid-November)
> because honestly, Djilas is now passé, he is history.
No, Earl... you did not get involved with him, because
you did not know of his existence until I mentioned the
name. It's as simple as that.
> He was of interest
> as a participant in events but not a great thinker like Herbert Marcuse.
Who??? Another leftist, pinko.
> As I explained, the "new class" theme was of interest to the "new right" in
> American in the 1970s and 80s but that too seems to have been dropped.
> My opinion is that they, like Pogo, found the "enemy" and the "enemy is us".
> We have had embarassed silence from the right since!
>
Funny enough the book was published to an instant
sensation in 1957.
>
> Here is what I wrote Nov 2, then in responding to another person--
>
> By the way, I mention C. Wright Mills, and his thesis of the "power elite"
> is still accepted. You punch "power elite" into Google and the first name
> you come up with is, guess? C. Wright Mills. He had a huge impact.
>
> You punch "new class" into Google, and guess what you come up with.
>
> Nothing but a new class of this or that. No first mention of Djilas.
> Djilas and his new class was a passing thing. No long term impact.
> It impressed PV, but then he is easily impressed by the relatively
> insignificant.
>
For a mention of Djilas see --
http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/18/oct99/djilas.htm
http://www.ralphmag.org/djilasZA.html
http://cwihp.si.edu/CWIHPlib.nsf/e7b8938c6eedaba4852564a7007a887a/b968caf1ea9329df852566430079806f?OpenDocument
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~kritika/NeMarCom.htm
http://www.bosnet.org/archive/bosnet.w3archive/9504/msg00116.html
This last calls his book "The New Class" one of the 900
great books of ALL time. Where do your boy's fit in?
http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/900GreatBooks.html
Another point you need to understand is that Djilas also
wrote that socialism creates a new class of bureaucrats,
which appropriates for itself an inordinate fraction of the
goods and privileges of society. That's YOUR Socialism.
No wonder you disavow him.. he is your 'mortal enemy.'
A Russian was to remark, "We hate him for that theory."
Djilas also wrote 'Conversations with Stalin.' among others.
> Earl
>
Just to recapitulate -- You made the rather absurd
claim that -- "The only man I know who correctly
predicted the eventual collapse of the USSR (which
imploded on itself without a whimper) was DeGaulle
who said "Ideologies come and go, but cultures
remain the same.'
Now EVERYONE knows how stupid such a claim is,
seeing as how 'ideologies' can be applied to ANY
social structure. It is realized that such a statement
is absurdly simplistic. And I pointed out the names
of two very prominent figures who had most
pointedly DIRECTLY referred to Communism as a
system corrupt from within, and certainly destined to
disappear. One of those was Milovan Djilas, and
I quoted a direct statement from a work published in
the 50's which unambiguously and unequivocally
stated that Communism would disappear.
You now claim to have been familiar with that work,
yet somehow you failed to realize the implication
within that work which totally destroys your argument
regarding DeGaulle. If you KNEW of that work,
how could you possibly say 'The only man I know....'?
Return to throwing darts at the periodic table, Earl.
In social issues you're a total disgrace, with no
knowledge of a very influential figure of the 20th
Century, involved in the very cause you espouse.
PV
Gaston
----------
Dans l'article <20011220112633...@mb-fj.aol.com>,
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) a écrit :
> Naw, to much trouble. I rather drink beer and chase women. BTW, am I speaking
> with Earl or his dawg.
Gaston always signs his name, Gaston, Earl always signs his name Earl
Earl
Gaston
Dans l'article <35wU7.134280$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
> What a crock, Earl... All of sudden you are well aware
> of Djilas... You've only been playing catch-up,
I preposted you on the "new class" buddy, in soc.retirement,
on November 2nd before you brought up the subject in
alt.activism.death-penalty.
You are back in the 1950s on this subject. I
was updating you to recent developments in
the 70s and 80s by your right wing friends.
You haven`t yet succeeded in playing catch-up, but your are
obviously in a bit of panic about it. Your raiding the web
for any and every mention of Djilas. What you need to do
is GO TO THE LIBRARY, SON.
Earl
Earl
Gaston
----------
Dans l'article <KgwU7.134374$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
To repeat:
>> I first posted on the "new class" and Ehrenreich's work on Nov 2, in
>> soc.retirement. I think this predates any "new class" discussion on
>> this newsgroup in the Fall, I found no older referencing to it.
>>
>> This can be found by doing a google search soc.retirement.
>> I did not get involved with PV's stupidities about Djilas a little bit
>> after than on this news group (he mentioned Djilas in mid-November)
>> because honestly, Djilas is now passé, he is history.
>
> No, Earl... you did not get involved with him, because
> you did not know of his existence until I mentioned the
> name. It's as simple as that.
Ehrenreich's chapter on the "new class" discusses the origin of the term
in Djilas' work. So that is clear. But it is a citation giving the roots
of the push by the right to exploit the concept for their own American
agenda.
If you haven't read her than you are ignorant about the whole issues.
You have already projected that.
>
>> He was of interest
>> as a participant in events but not a great thinker like Herbert Marcuse.
>
> Who??? Another leftist, pinko.
dumb, a convincing act in your case. A Marxist, sonny.
Now your panic list of web sites. Any books, baby?
> For a mention of Djilas see --
> http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/18/oct99/djilas.htm
> http://www.ralphmag.org/djilasZA.html
> http://cwihp.si.edu/CWIHPlib.nsf/e7b8938c6eedaba4852564a7007a887a/b968caf1ea9329df852
> 566430079806f?OpenDocument
> http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~kritika/NeMarCom.htm
> http://www.bosnet.org/archive/bosnet.w3archive/9504/msg00116.html
>
> This last calls his book "The New Class" one of the 900
> great books of ALL time.
Bettelheim, Bruno: The Empty Fortress: Infantile Autism and the Birth of Self
WHO IS NOW CLASSED AS A FAKE.
THE OTHER WEB SITES YOU PUT UP ARE BIOGRAPHICAL DATA, SAYING NOTHING IMPORTANT.
YOU DID EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED, COMPLETE PANIC, TO THE WEB AND NOT
TO THE LIBRARY.
YOU ARE A PHONY, PV, COMPLETELY
some info on www.marcuse.org.
This is just a list of books put together by some U of Miami Prof,
Any book may have had impact at the time but now is what I am
talking about. Sure Betel Brutalheim, his current nickname,
is there, and his book had an impact at the time but he is
depassé now. His theory of the cause of autism, his calling mothers
of autistic children, "refrigerator mothers" (their fault, mind you,
they always blame the "mothers" for difficult children, never the
fathers) is completely discounted now.
Being on the 900 list does not give the work the stamp of being
forever worth being there.
If you want to visit an authentic web page on Marcuse here
it is
http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/
Compare the following with what you dug up coco!
Your guy is outclassed.
Earl
****
Comprehensive Web Sites and Links Pages
* Doug Kellner's critical theory website at the University of Texas, Austin. He has a Marcuse page with essays, including a long and detailed biography. Kellner also contributed to a short timeline on the UTexas website. Doug is the editor of Herbert's collected papers, a 6-volume series, whose first volume, Technology, War and Fascism, was published in 1998 (see below). Doug is now a professor of the philosophy of education at UCLA (see his web site there). * worldsocialism.org has an informative and thoughtful page about Herbert's relationship to Marxism, written by A. Buick.
* Patrice Deramaix' Frankfurt School site (all in French) has a biographical page and an annotated bibliography.
* Sarah Zupko's popcultures.com has a page with links to several articles about Herbert's work.
* University of Colorado, Denver, School of Education, maintains a list of links on its Contemporary Philosophy page
* ErraticImpact.com (a philosophy research database that sells books) has a page of links and texts.
* Yahoo.com's Marcuse page doesn't have much on it (Kellner and Kovacevic; the latter went defunct in summer 2001); Google's is better.
Other Sites of Interest and Sources of Information
* Herbert's Hippopotamus is a 1 hr. 9 min. documentary video made by UCSD film student Paul Alexander Juutilainen in 1996. It is a wonderful film about Herbert's traces at UCSD, with great documentary footage and contemporary interviews. One reviewer wrote: "This Emmy award-winning documentary explores the historical background for the cultural encounter between European Critical Thinking, the Third World, Feminist and Anti-war movements, as well as the political turmoil and institutional pressures in reaction to these coalitions." * Unfortunately, we have lost touch with Mr. Juutilainen, and don't know where one can order a copy. It is available through interlibrary loans from UCSB and UCSD, however (search by title, or go directly to the melvyl record).
* For a detailed description, see this UC Santa Cruz campus newspaper article.
* The film is discussed in an article about resistance to the marines by UC Berkeley political science graduate student John Brady, published in 1998 in the on-line journal Bad Subjects.
* Andrew Feenberg, professor of philosophy at San Diego State University, has an "appreciation" (commentary on one of Herbert's last speeches, "Obstinacy as a Theoretical Virtue"), an article about Herbert on technology, and a nice picture of Herbert with Feenberg's son Nick.
* The City and University Library in Frankfurt/Main holds the archive of Herbert's papers and manuscripts. It also has a short biography.
* Wbenjamin.org has an on-line version of Herbert's essay Aggressiveness in Advanced Industrial Society (1967), ending in a nice list of links.
* Hans-Jürgen Krahl's Fünf Thesen zu Herbert Marcuse als kritischer Theoretiker der Emanzipation, a defense of Herbert after an "attack" by Rolf Hochhuth (1971; archived on partisan.net).
* 1969 review of Eros and Civilization by Robert Young (originally published in the New Statesman in Nov. 1969).
* undated (2001?) review of Essay on Liberation, by sociology graduate student Frank Samson III at Stanford Univ.
* Case Western Reserve University (in Cleveland) has a cryptic (who made it?) site about the Frankfurt School, with a page about Herbert's best-known work, One Dimensional Man.
* Anti-World-Trade-Organization activisit Dave (Seattle '99) began a site at herbertmarcuse.com, but in August 2001 it was still rudimentary.
* Penguin Dictionary of Sociology entry was put on the web by the Sociology & Anthropology department of the University of Canterbury, New Zealand.
* The University of Amsterdam's SocioSite Project has entries for Marcuse, and Habermas (among others).
* XREFER.com, a search engine of on-line reference works, has a marcuse page, with links to pages on other reference sites, such as an art-specific biography, and Oxford Univ. Press's Who's who page.
* Philosophenlexikon.de has a very short, philosophically oriented biography.
* Philolex.de has a very short assessment by Peter Möller, Berlin. Möller's Frankfurter Schule page is more informative.
* Short bio in Italian Enciclopedia Multimediale
* Scroll down on this page at creativequotations.com for 5 cool, short quotations and their sources.
* Herbert's son Peter and third wife Erica Sherover wrote this Sept. 1979 letter to the New York Review of Books, suggesting that people send checks to Rudi Dutschke to help the East German dissident Rudolf Bahro.
* Doctoral Student Filip Kovacevic at the University of Missouri, Columbia maintained a "Herbert Marcuse's Home Page" with links to on-line articles about his work at http://web.missouri.edu/~tapscifk/dolcevita1.html, but the page disappeared from the UMissouri server prior to August 2001. Maybe Filip graduated. I list the page here because it was probably the one of the first sites about Herbert--in 2001 more web pages had links to it than any other site about him, even though it wasn't the most informative site.
In Print
* One Dimensional Man (1964) is Herbert's best-known work. Amazon sells the 1992 edition for $16 (or $7.20 used), and has a page with 2 customer reviews. It is available in German for DM20, too. * Eros and Civilization (1955). One of Herbert's very well-known early works. Its title plays on Freud's Civilization and its Discontents. This vision of a non-repressive society, based on Marx and Freud, anticipated the values of 1960s countercultural movements. Amazon sells it for $13.60 and has several customer reviews.
Also available in German (DM32 from amazon.de).
* The Aesthetic Dimension: Toward a Critique of Marxist Aesthetics (Boston: Beacon, 1978), 88 pages.
($13 on amazon)
Reviewer Elliott Green (German major at Princeton, MPhil student in Development Studies at the London School of Economics) wrote on Amazon: "Herbert Marcuse, original member of the so-called 'Frankfurt School', here presents a critique of Marxist aesthetics in one of his last books. Although only 72 pages long, the book is powerful in its argument against the orthodox Marxist view that 'art represents its the interests and world outlook of particular social classes.' Marcuse argues for the importance of art in itself, apart from its source, writing, 'the criteria for the progressive character of art are given only in the work itself as a whole: in what it says and how it says it.' He truly believes that art's place in the world is not to change the world directly but to influence how people perceive the world and thereby lead them to change it. Marcuse also touches upon other aspects of aesthetics, like his belief in a constant standard allowing us to distinguish between high and low art and the question of the 'end of art' as posited by Bertolt Brecht and others. Nevertheless his main argument is most powerful: he ends the book by praising art's role in representing 'the ultimate goal of all revolutions: the freedom and happiness of the individual.' Truly a valuable book for all students of art, aesthetics and philosophy.
* Herbert's papers from 1942-51, Technology, War and Fascism, edited by Douglas Kellner and Peter Marcuse (Routledge, 1998). publisher's page (with table of contents); preface by Peter Marcuse.
Sold for $45 at Borders.com (page with reviews), and $23 at Amazon.com.
Review in the Canadian Journal of Sociology (Mar./Apr. 2000)
This is the first volume in a series of six.
(See also this 1942 text, "Staat und Individuum im Nationalsozialismus," first published in Oct. 2000 in the newspaper taz.)
* Volume II, Towards a Critical Theory of Society, with papers from the 1960s and early 1970s and an afterword by Juergen Habermas (Routledge, June 2001). publisher's page ($35 from Amazon)
Contents:
Foreword by Peter Marcuse; Introduction; 1. The Problem of Social Change in the Technological Society 2. The Individual in the Great Society 3. The Containment of Social Change in Industrial Society 4. 1966 Political Preface to Eros and Civilization 5. Beyond One-Dimensional Man 6. Cultural Revolution 7. The Historical Fate of the Bourgeois Democracy 8. Watergate: When Law and Morality Stand in the Way 9. A Revolution in Values 10. Letters: Herbert Marcuse to Leo Lowenthal; Leo Lowenthal to Richard Popkin; Herbert Marcuse to T.W. Adorno; T.W. Adorno and Max Horkheimer to Herbert Marcuse; Herbert Marcuse to T.W. Adorno and Max Horkheimer; Herbert Marcuse to Raya Dunayevskaya; Raya Dunayevskaya to Herbert Marcuse.
* Peter-Erwin Jansen is publishing Marcuse's unpublished writings in German, as well. (Jansen is also the editor of some of Leo Löwenthal's papers for Klostermann publishers.)
* Herbert Marcuse: Nachgelassene Schriften 1: Das Schicksal der bürgerlichen Demokratie, edited and with a preface by Peter-Erwin Jansen, introduction by Oskar Negt (Lüneburg: Klampen, 2000), 176 pages, DM38.00.
Contents:
1. Zum Problem des sozialen Wandels; 2. Jenseits des Eindimensionalen Menschen; 3. Das historische Schicksal der bürgerlichen Demokratie; 4. Eine Revolution der Werte; 5. Antidemokratische Volksbewegungen; 6. Kulturrevolution
Amazon.de page with descriptions; Feb. 2000 Die Welt review by Bernd Rabehl; hostile Dec. 1999 FAZ review by Stefan Breuer (archive copy).
(Note that this is a different selection of manuscripts than the English edition of Marcuse's papers.)
* 2: Kunst und Befreiung, edited with a preface by Peter-Erwin Jansen, introduction by Gerhard Schweppenhäuser, 166 pages. (DM38 von amazon.de)
In Kunst und Befreiung sind Marcuses unveröffentlichte Arbeiten zur Ästhetik von den späten 40er Jahren bis 1978 gesammelt. Von seinem frühen Beitrag zu Aragon über "Kunst in der eindimensionalen Gesellschaft" bis hin zum späten "Entwurf von La Jolla" ziehen sich die großen Motive der Marcuseschen Kunstauffassung durch die in diesem Band versammelten Texte: der mit ihrem affirmativen Charakter verwobene utopische Überschuß in großer Kunst, die Möglichkeit von Dichtung nach Auschwitz, die Permanenz der Kunst angesichts des auch von einer befriedeten Gesellschaft nicht zu verhindernden Leids und der Endlichkeit der Menschen.
Contents:
1. Kunst und Revolte; 2. Entwurf von La Jolla; 3. Die Zukunft der Kunst, Gesellschaft als Kunstwerk; 4. Kunst in der eindimensionalen Gesellschaft; 5. Briefe über Surrealismus; 6. Aragon; 7. Proust-Notizen.
See the Dec. 2000 Deutschlandfunk review of vols. 1 and 2 by Johan Hartle; Feb. 2001 literaturkritik.de review by Rolf Löchel.
* 3: Philosophie und Psychoanalyse. Edited by Peter-Erwin Jansen, introduction by Alfred Schmidt, (sched. pub. date October 2001).
Contents:
1. Jenseits des Realitätsprinzips; 2. Antwort auf Erich Fromm; 3. Die Anklage der westlichen Philosophie in Freuds Theorie; 4. Eros und Kultur; 5. Soziale und psychologiesche Repression; 6. Die Bedeutung des Todes; 7. Gedanken zu einer negativen Metaphysik
* 4: Die Studentenbewegung und Ihre Folgen. Edited by Peter-Erwin Jansen, introduction by Wolfgang Kraushaar, (October 2002).
Contents:
1. Hat die Demokratie eine Zukunft? 2. Die Errichtung Israels war ein politischer Akt; 3. Komplex Angela Davis; 4. Stellungnahme zur Kuba-Krise; 5. Briefwechsel mit Rudi Dutschke; 6. Vietnam Komplex
See also: Wolfgang Kraushaar (ed.): Frankfurter Schule und Studentenbewegung: Von der Flaschenpost zum Molotowcocktail 1946-1995. 3 vols. (Frankfurt: Rogner & Bernhard, 1998), together 1816pp; 75,- DM. (June 1998 FAZ review; archive copy)
* 5: Oekologie und Gesellschaftskritik. Edited by Peter-Erwin Jansen, introduction by Iring Fetscher. (October 2003).
Contents (preliminary):
1. Oekologie und Gesellschaftskritik; 2. Der Eurokommunismus als 'historischer Kompromiss'.
* Feindanalysen: Über die Deutschen, edited by Peter-Erwin Jansen and introduced by Detlev Claussen (zu Klampen, 1998), 149pp.
Contents:
1. Die neue deutsche Mentalität; 2. Darstellung des Feindes; 3. Ueber psychologische Neutralität; 4. Ueber soziale und politische Aspekte des Nationalsozialismus; 5. Kriegs- und Nachkriegsgeneration; 6. Deutsche Philosophie im zwanzigsten Jahrhundert; 7. 33 Thesen; 8. Ist eine freie Gesellschaft gegenwärtig möglich?
The bol.de page has the following description from the Zurich Weekly News, 4 June 1998 (Harold's translation): "An exciting find: Herbert Marcuse's American Writings on Germany. What kind of people were the Germans under Hitler? In these memoranda, published now for the first time, which the exiled philosopher wrote for the US government during World War II, we find astonishingly modern answers. ... We have the initiative of the small publisher in Lüneburg and the tenacity of the Frankfurt Marcuse-Expert Peter-Erwin Jansen to thank for the publication of these hitherto unknown works by Marcuse. In the context of the discussions about Germans as followers of Hitler that have been reignited by the Goldhagen debate, these texts deserve attention far beyond the circle of unwavering Marcuse readers."
Editor P.-E. Jansen adds: "In June 1998 this book was at the top of the best-seller lists of the Süddeutsche Zeitung (nonfiction), BuchJournal, and the Norddeutscher Rundfunk radio station."
See also the reviews in July 1998 reviews in Junge Welt and FAZ (archive copy).
(See also this 1942 text, "Staat und Individuum im Nationalsozialismus," first published in Oct. 2000 in the newspaper taz.)
* Gespräche mit Herbert Marcuse. (Edition Suhrkamp, 1978) (DM10 from amazon.de)
Contents: Theorie und Politik (July 1977 in Starnberg, with Habermas, Heinz Lubasz, and Tilman Spengler);
Weiblichkeitsbilder (July 1977 in Pontresina, Switzerland [Herbert's favorite vacation spot], with Silvia Bovenschen and Marianne Schuller);
Salecina (1975 interview and summer 1977 conversation with Erica Sherover (Herbert's third wife), Berthold Rothschild, Theo Pinkus);
Radikale Philosophie: Die Frankfurter Schule (undated BBC broadcasts, with Lubasz, Alfred Schmidt, Karl Popper, Ralf Dahrendorf, Rudi Dutschke);
"So sieht in der bürgerlichen Gesellschaft der Fortschritt aus..." (Nov. 1977 in La Jolla, with Hans Christoph Buch).
* Peter Marcuse, Herbert's son, is the literary executor for Herbert's estate. Requests to publish any of Herbert's writings should be addressed to him at pm...@columbia.edu. (Herbert's letters and papers are held by the Marcuse archive at the City and University Library in Frankfurt, Germany.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herbert's Legacy
A professor's legacy is visible not only through publications, but in (former) students as well. Abbie Hoffman and Angela Davis, now Professor in the History of Consciousness department at UC Santa Cruz (AD's page), are two of Herbert's best-known. See Angela's published autobiography (1988), or this short biography for Black History Month. You can listen to her read from her book "Blues Legacies and Black Feminism" on KUSP's website; or peruse a 1996 course syllabus.
On Abbie Hoffman, see this 1997 NY Times review of Jonah Raskin's biography of him.
See also Andrew Feenberg (professor of philosophy at San Diego State), above.
The Frankfurt School and Critical Theory since the 1980s
Numerous scholars were strongly influenced by members of the Frankfurt School (actually the Institut fuer Sozialforschung in Frankfurt; see its history in English) and consider themselves practitioners of Critical Theory. Juergen Habermas (b. 1929) is by far the best known member of this "second generation" of critical sociologists. On Habermas see the linkography by Antti Kauppinen, a postgraduate student of philosophy at the University of Helsinki; or this overview and resources by Steve Robinson, a student at Michigan State University).A younger generation of scholars who studied in the 1960s can more properly be considered "students" of Marcuse and other members of the Frankfurt School. In 1999 for instance, Detlev Claussen, Oskar Negt und Michael Werz, at the University of Hannover in Germany, began publishing a series called the "Hannoversche Schriften," which is devoted to the continuing influence of Critical Theory. The first volume, Keine Kritische Theorie ohne Amerika, was reviewed by Micha Brumlik in the FAZ in Dec. 1999 (archive copy).
For what would have been Herbert's 100th birthday (July 18, 1998), Detlev Claussen wrote a "Remembrance," which was published in the Zurich Weltwoche and on the University of Hannover website. See also the list of speakers on the program of a 1998 commemorative conference at Berkeley.
******
A Planet Visitor
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vvns5$g28$1...@neon.noos.net...
>
>
> Dans l'article <35wU7.134280$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
> Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
>
>
> > What a crock, Earl... All of sudden you are well aware
> > of Djilas... You've only been playing catch-up,
>
> I preposted you on the "new class" buddy, in soc.retirement,
> on November 2nd before you brought up the subject in
> alt.activism.death-penalty.
>
Djilas, you moron. You didn't know of HIS work,
or even knew of his EXISTENCE. You assumed that
the term 'The New Class' was an original concept
from the hack you cited. Failing to realize that this
hack had TAKEN the term from the work of Djilas.
Both you, and I presume he, failed to acknowledge
that fact. You knew NOTHING of the connection,
or even the NAME Milovan Djilas, and attributed the term
'New Class' in Djilas' original connotation to a HACK.
And a pinko hack at that. You're now trying desperately
to deceptively backtrack out of your ignorance by
saying you saw 'New Class' and thus knew of
Djilas' work, which is a boldface lie. His work
PREDATES any argument you might have
offered regarding the work of another who probably
stole the idea from the ORIGINAL.
Herr Professor... it's not nice to try and bullshit
your way out of this.
> You are back in the 1950s on this subject. I
> was updating you to recent developments in
> the 70s and 80s by your right wing friends.
>
Sure you were, coco. BTW -- the 50's were
around before the 70's and 80's, and the original
argument revolved about your claim regarding
DeGaulle, and not the 'New Class,' in which you
are now scrambling to retrieve some sense of
dignity. Too Late, coco.
> You haven`t yet succeeded in playing catch-up, but your are
> obviously in a bit of panic about it. Your raiding the web
> for any and every mention of Djilas. What you need to do
> is GO TO THE LIBRARY, SON.
>
You'll find his works there as well. What's YOUR
excuse for not knowing of him?
PV
> Earl
A Planet Visitor
I have reformatted this, but it's time consuming,
and this is not a group where HTLM is the normal
method of communication.
"Gaston" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9vvqh7$bam$1...@hadron.noos.net...
Dans l'article <KgwU7.134374$oj3.23...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@abcxyz.com> a écrit :
>> >To repeat:
>> > I first posted on the "new class" and Ehrenreich's work on Nov 2, in
>> > soc.retirement. I think this predates any "new class" discussion on
>> > this newsgroup in the Fall, I found no older referencing to it.
>> > This can be found by doing a google search soc.retirement.
>> > I did not get involved with PV's stupidities about Djilas a little bit
>> > after than on this news group (he mentioned Djilas in mid-November)
>> > because honestly, Djilas is now passé, he is history.
> > No, Earl... you did not get involved with him, because
> >you did not know of his existence until I mentioned the
> > name. It's as simple as that.
> So you dodged my comment about predating you on the new class.
You nitwit. Djilas predated Ehrenreich by 40 years.
You simply have NO POINT HERE. The point is you
did not know of the ORIGINAL creator of the term,
and the book he wrote with that same title. You simply
cited the work of some HACK, having nothing to do
with the original argument, which BTW was who had
commented on the ultimate demise of the Communist
system.
>> >Ehrenreich's chapter on the "new class" discusses the origin
>> >of the term in Djilas' work. So that is clear. But it is a
>> >citation giving the roots of the push by the right to exploit
>> >the concept for their own American
>> >agenda.
> If you haven't read her than you are ignorant about the whole issues.
> You have already projected that.
We know WHO is ignorant here, Earl. No matter how
hard you squirm. You'll not escape the fundamental
truth that you did not know of the EXISTENCE of
Djilas, yet felt some hack had DEFINED that term.
>> > He was of interest
>> > as a participant in events but not a great thinker like Herbert Marcuse.
> > Who??? Another leftist, pinko.
> Common on now, you have heard of Marcuse, haven't you?
> You're playing
> dumb, a convincing act in your case. A Marxist, sonny.
You've become abysmally stupid here, Earl. Your
pathetic attempt to divert from the argument is plain
for everyone to see. I will not be drawn into some
stupid coffee-house philosophical claptrap, where
I would only become more incensed with your
ignorance in things of a political or philosophical
nature. You are so wrong-headed and concrete-
headed that it would only result in you being shown
up yet again, trying to drift off on another thread
to the argument. You revel in meaningless argument,
never get to the point, and always show a great lack
of knowledge in the point being discussed, but a
great willingness to drift off and pretend you have this
great storehouse of knowledge. It is DJILAS we are
discussing here. A person who, until a few days
again, when I mentioned the name, you did not know
EXISTED.
> Now your panic list of web sites. Any books, baby?
That's your typical 'elitist' attitude. You cite these
references, knowing full well that NO ONE CARES.
I think it can presume you've only HEARD
about the authors, and quickly scanned their
works, rather than reading them for an understanding.
Perhaps picking out a few points that you can cast
here as 'pearls before swine,' with your pompous
arrogance. In fact, I don't think you have
that deep an understanding about ANY of the
sources you recommend. You only put them out
there, to hope OTHERS believe you've read and
understood the authors. I offer URL's that
ANYONE can quickly look at, for just the reason
that they do NOT require running down to the library.
It's called the 'information age.' You should enter
it sometime. I ask the reader to look at the URL,
and using the intelligence that God gave them,
make up their minds for themselves, without being
force-fed some garbage by you.
> >For a mention of Djilas see --
> >http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/18/oct99/djilas.htm
> > http://www.ralphmag.org/djilasZA.html
>>http://cwihp.si.edu/CWIHPlib.nsf/e7b8938c6eedaba4852564a7007a887a/b968caf1ea9329df852566430079806f?OpenDocument
> > http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~kritika/NeMarCom.htm
> > http://www.bosnet.org/archive/bosnet.w3archive/9504/msg00116.html
> > This last calls his book "The New Class" one of the 900
> > great books of ALL time.
> NOT ONLY IS MARCUSE'S BOOK THERE BUT ALSO
Gee, didn't he ALSO predict the demise of the Soviet
Empire? Seems to me he did a critical study of the
Soviet Union in 1958, speaking critically of the USSR
and Soviet communism. But I thought you said
DeGaulle was the ONLY person you knew who did
so? Now suddenly you know of Marcuse, but seem
to know little of his work. It's just the act of the 'pompous
professor' at work. Throw a few names around and
see if anyone thinks you're smart. Well... it failed with
me.
> Bettelheim, Bruno: The Empty Fortress: Infantile Autism and the Birth of
> Self
Yet another name! Oh... oh.... oh.... you're just Soooooo
smart.
> WHO IS NOW CLASSED AS A FAKE.
Why you are, Earl.! That's rather a given, since you're
desperately scrambling now. I focus on what I originally
claimed. Milovan Djilas predicted the demise of
Communism. You keep jumping all over the place trying
only to show that you know something... but of course,
you don't.
> THE OTHER WEB SITES YOU PUT UP ARE BIOGRAPHICAL DATA,
> SAYING NOTHING IMPORTANT.
Says YOU. Importance is in the 'eye of the beholder.'
But you keep telling that eye WHAT to SEE. I tell
them to look and see FOR THEMSELVES.
> YOU DID EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED, COMPLETE PANIC,
> TO THE WEB AND NOT TO THE LIBRARY.
Oh... I think I detect some panic on your part, coco.
> YOU ARE A PHONY, PV, COMPLETELY
You're starting to rave now, Earl. Your argument is of
course, in a total shambles.
> Where do your boy's fit in?
> > http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/900GreatBooks.html
> HE IS THERE, BUT LOOK HIM UP, COOKIE, AND COMPARE.
> You can find
> some info on www.marcuse.org.
I KNOW who Marcuse is, you idiot. I will just not
let you DIVERT the argument, which is your usual
operating method. We are discussing MILOVAN
DJILAS. Who you did not know EXISTED prior to
my mentioning the name.
> This is just a list of books put together by some U of Miami Prof,
> Any book may have had impact at the time but now is what I am
> talking about. Sure Betel Brutalheim, his current nickname,
> is there, and his book had an impact at the time but he is
> depassé now. His theory of the cause of autism, his calling mothers
> of autistic children, "refrigerator mothers" (their fault, mind you,
> they always blame the "mothers" for difficult children, never the
> fathers) is completely discounted now.
Unbelievable!!! You see what I mean? I mean Oprah
only recommends one book a month. You are a
veritable book store... and I guarantee you've read
NONE of them.
> Being on the 900 list does not give the work the stamp of being
> forever worth being there.
I presume that applies to Marcuse and Bettelheim,
as well.
> If you want to visit an authentic web page on Marcuse here
> it is
> http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/
You're repeating yourself.
> Compare the following with what you dug up coco!
> Your guy is outclassed.
It would not matter, Earl. And this is the point. You
would hope to divert the argument to a discussion
of the relative merits of many of your heroes, compared
to Djilas. But that is NOT the argument. You only wish
it was to divert from what the argument actually IS. The
point, Herr Professor, is Milovan Djilas... a person you
did not know EXISTED, prior to my mentioning the name.
> Earl
****
<web page recommendations clipped>
For someone who holds little respect for the web,
you seem to now be desperately trying to validate
your position using just that media. In fact, it's
all a smoke screen, because the argument does
not concern a philosophy (which you lack the
credentials to examine anyway). It is an argument
over a claim of yours regarding DeGaulle, and a
clear counterclaim of mine that showed your
claim to be FALSE. All else is simply trying to
'baffle them with bullshit,' because you have no
ability to 'blind with brilliance.' Does the word
'sham' ring a bell??
PV