Mr Bush got it right unlike Mr Clinton
PJ O'Donovan
July 04, 2007
Bush Got It Right... Unlike Mr. Clinton
By Jack Kelly
"Scooter" Libby will serve as much time in prison for lying under oath
to a federal grand jury as Bill Clinton served for lying under oath to
a federal grand jury.
Mr. Libby, who was chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was
convicted in March of lying about from whom he learned that Valerie
Plame Wilson worked at the CIA. Last month Judge Reggie Walton
sentenced him to 30 months in prison and a $250,000 fine.
On Monday, President Bush commuted the prison sentence. His conviction
still stands, and Mr. Libby still must pay the fine.
Democrats were outraged. "As Independence Day nears, we are reminded
that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal
justice under law," said Sen. Charles Schumer of New York. "This
commutation completely tramples on that principle."
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. said President Bush should be impeached for
"crimes against the Constitution of the United States."
So were liberal newspapers. "President Bush's commutation of a pal's
prison sentence counts as a most shocking act of disrespect for the
U.S. justice system," said the Seattle Post-Intelligencer in an
editorial.
"In this case, Mr. Bush didn't sound like a leader making tough
decisions about justice," said the New York Times. "He sounded like a
man worried about what a former loyalist might say when actually
staring into a prison cell."
These worthies were outraged in the fall of 1998, too. But then they
were outraged because President Clinton had been impeached for
committing perjury.
With so many others piling on, Hillary Clinton should have had the
good sense to hold her tongue. But she said "this commutation sends
the clear signal that in this administration, cronyism and ideology
trump competence and justice."
That's rich, as in Marc Rich, the financier who fled the country to
avoid prosecution for tax evasion, fraud and "trading with the enemy."
On his last day in office, President Clinton pardoned Mr. Rich after
his ex-wife, Denise (with whom Mr. Clinton reportedly had been
sleeping) donated $1 million to the Democratic party and $10,000 to
the Clintons' legal defense fund.
That day Mr. Clinton also pardoned four Orthodox Jews who had bilked
the government out of some $40 million. They were leaders of the Skver
sect in New Square, N.Y. Members of the sect usually vote Republican,
but broke heavily for Hillary in her senate campaign after she invited
the group's spiritual leader to the White House.
Others among the 140 Mr. Clinton pardoned on his last day in office
were Henry Cisneros, his former Housing secretary who was convicted of
lying to federal officials; Susan McDougal, his former partner in the
Whitewater land deal, and his former CIA Director, John Deutch,
convicted of mishandling national secrets.
Few Democrats or journalists said those pardons sent "the clear
signal" that in the Clinton administration "cronyism and ideology
trump competence and justice." Few Democrats or journalists said
anything about them at all. Hillary Clinton could get away with her
blatant hypocrisy because she knew her fellow hypocrites wouldn't call
her on it.
And no complaints were heard from these worthies when Sandy Berger,
who had been President Clinton's national security adviser, received
no jail time -- and only a $50,000 fine -- for stealing classified
documents from the National Archives.
We still don't know why Sandy stole those documents, or why he
destroyed some. The news media aren't pursuing the story. For most
journalists, a scandal isn't a scandal unless a Republican is
involved.
Mr. Bush also took flak from the right for commuting Mr. Libby's
prison sentence. The editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal and
the New York Post blasted him for not pardoning Mr. Libby outright.
It wasn't a crime to disclose Ms. Plame's identity (she hadn't been
covert for more than five years), and it was Deputy Secretary of State
Richard Armitage who outed her, not Mr. Libby. But Special Prosecutor
Patrick Fitzgerald demanded he be sentenced as if he had violated the
Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
I'm suspicious of verdicts handed down by DC juries, and I think Mr.
Fitzgerald is the federal equivalent of disgraced Duke rape prosecutor
Michael Nifong.
But I think the president got it right. There was no underlying crime,
but Mr. Libby might have lied to the grand jury. If so, he should pay.
But the loss of his job, his reputation and the $250,000 fine are
greater punishment than similarly situated Democratic offenders ever
receive.
FACE
<Xen...@aol.com>, wrote
Excellent article outlining a few of the duplicitous, partisan actions of
the dhimmicrat party. Oh, "dhimmicrat" may have offended some of the
defeatocrats, so let me change that to demoncrap.......
FACE
*us*
PJ O'Donovan
"Commutation of sentence seems unlikely to have consequences for
Bush..."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-bush3jul03,0,202378.story?coll=la-home-center
Bush's move cheers conservative base
"The president's decision to spare Libby prison time stirs outrage
but, perhaps more crucially, gratifies conservatives....."
asc...@zdnetonebox.com
1183558066....@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Single-cylinder engine
Usually things we recognize
Back to Story--Help
July 1, 2007
By Peggy O'Farrell
POFA...@ENQUIRER.COM
Most people remember their first kiss.
Doctors remember their first cadaver.
For Bruce Giffin, it was a 60-something man named Charlie.
Good muscle tone. No pesky pathology.
"And just the right amount of body fat," Giffin said.
All in all, Giffin said, Charlie was an ideal cadaver for a young
medical student learning the intricacies of human anatomy.
One day, Giffin hopes, he'll be able to provide the same service for a
future medical student. "I have to remember to fill out the
paperwork," he said.
Giffin, a professor of medicine at the University of Cincinnati,
directs the College of Medicine's body donation program.
He's also planning to be a donor himself.
Every year, the university receives 350 to 360 bodies donated for use
in their medical education programs.
Other medical schools are eliminating cadaver dissection programs
because of cost and other concerns, but UC's body donation program is
one of the strongest in the nation.
The concept is macabre - volunteers donating their bodies to be cut up
in anatomy classes - but what students learn from working with their
first real cadaver is invaluable.
Most will be dissected in gross anatomy classes, said Gina Burg,
coordinator of the donation program. Others will be used to help
doctors perfect surgical techniques.
It's a morbid concept, and there are endless possibilities for
gruesome jokes.
But, experts say, men and women like Charlie provide an invaluable
educational resource for medical students as they learn how the body
works.
The dissection process is an unparalleled chance for exploration:
Learning the layers of skin, fat and muscle, the intricate connections
between muscles, ligaments and bones, the endless tangles of blood
vessels and nerves.
Anatomy texts give medical students a general idea of what to expect,
but no two bodies are alike, Giffin said.
"You find a lot of variation. You can see differences in how the heart
is sitting in the thorax, or differences in blood vessels," he said.
"If you go through the lab and look, you will see very significant
variations from cadaver to cadaver."
For medical students, the first day in the gross anatomy lab is a rite
of passage.
Many doctors described being overwhelmed or terrified as they entered
the lab.
Some nearly passed out from the smell of the formaldehyde used to
embalm the cadavers.
Many students name the cadaver they will work with during their first
year of medical school.
It's a unique relationship, to say the least.
"You're in the lab so much, on evenings and weekends, you might end up
spending more time with your cadaver than anyone else," Giffin said.
"You do develop a rapport."
There are many surprises in the anatomy lab.
Mary Ann Barnes, a family practice specialist at St. Elizabeth Medical
Center, and her classmates were fascinated by the condition of their
cadaver's lungs.
"We thought they were cool because they didn't look normal. So we
saved them, and finally the gross anatomy instructor came by and said,
'Oh, my God, she has TB!' But not none of us caught it from her."
Vickie Chan, who is wrapping up her final year of family practice
residency, learned her cadaver - a woman she and her classmates
namedWendy - had gallstones.
"Apparently they weren't bad enough to bother her," Chan said.
Wendy had other secrets, Chan said. "She had all these bruises on her
arms. I always wondered what brought her there," she said. "You always
want to know people's stories."
Julie Pultinas and three other classmates decided to name their
cadaver Jerry.
"We agreed that it felt better to give him a name instead of referring
to him as a thing," she said.. She starts her third year of medical
school at UC in the fall.
Jerry died of complications from Alzheimer's disease, Pultinas said,
although she didn't learn that until late in the year. "I would say he
was in his late 70s, early 80s, and it appeared he had spent a lot of
time in a nursing home. He wasn't moving a whole lot," she said.
Working with Jerry was "fascinating," she said. "I remember holding
this man's brain in my hands and wondering what he had thought about.
You do develop a connection. I think it changed us all a little bit."
She's considering registering as a body donor.
About 80 percent of the program's donors sign up in advance for the
program, Burg said.
Many donors register because, like Giffin and Pultinas, they feel it's
a chance to make an important contribution to medical education.
Some sign up for the more practical reason of saving on funeral
expenses, Burg said.
UC covers the cost of embalming cadavers, plus cremation costs once
students are finished with them. The university holds a memorial
service once a year to honor donors and their families.
This year, the program will cost just over $218,000. There is no cost
to the family, and the program is supported by revenues from each
department within the College of Medicine that uses the cadavers.
Kathleen Petty's parents, John Henry and Clyda Nordlohne, were both
donors.
Petty, who lives in Fairfield Township, also plans to become a donor.
"It's such a waste to just put a body in the ground," she said. "If
you can't save a life by organ donation, there's so many things that
can be learned."
Some medical schools are eliminating cadaver dissection in their gross
anatomy programs, Giffin said.
Expense is one reason. Lack of cadavers is another.
There's also a shortage of anatomy instructors, he said. Few graduate
students choose the specialty because there's little research left to
do in gross anatomy, Giffin said.
Students can learn a lot from computer simulations and software
programs, experts say.
But even with high-tech simulators and imaging techniques that show
every nook and cranny and wrinkle of the body, there's no substitution
for actual dissection.
"You have to learn anatomy," said J. Michael Smith. "The CT scans
aren't the same as working in three dimensions. You can't see what the
quality of the tissue is on a simulator, and with some of these
virtual programs, it's almost like looking at a cartoon."
Smith is a heart surgeon and director of the robotic surgery program
at Good Samaritan Hospital.
Even using the most advanced technology available, Smith uses cadavers
to train other surgeons in robotic surgical techniques.
"We do entire procedures, step by step," he said.
His first cadaver, incidentally, was an older man who died of liver
cancer.
"His arteries were great to work on. We really got lucky."
The University of Cincinnati's College of Medicine accepts body
donations for its gross anatomy programs. Anyone who is pre-registered
as a donor will be accepted into the program, including people who
have also served as organ donors. UC will pay all embalming and
cremation costs.
Some bodies are accepted without pre-registration, but they must meet
some criteria.
Earl Evleth
1183556877....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "PJ O'Donovan"
<Xen...@aol.com> wrote:
> Bush Got It Right... Unlike Mr. Clinton
The other way around. Bush like his father encourages
illegal behavior of highly placed members of the government
since they know that regardless of their criminal
behavior the commander in chief will parole them.
They are never punished for their crimes.
It is soft on crime
Some of the framers of the constitution warned
about this. Dissidents in the Pennsylvania ratification convention
of 1787 wrote their fears that the president
http://www.constitution.org/afp/pennmi00.htm
"having the power of pardoning without the concurrence of
a council, he may screen from punishment the most treasonable
attempts that may be made on the liberties of the people----
Note that as Governor of Texas Bush could not commute
the death sentence of a condemn person all on his
own. He had to have the prior recommendation of
of the pardons board.
Bush is promoting criminal when he does this.
But given his own behavior since lying about
the Iraq danger, would could one expect.
Capitalist Pig
> Bush is enronizing the USA.
The was the Bush Justice Department that tried the Enron crooks, the
jury found them guilty and all but Ken Lay who died went to prison.
Josh Rosenbluth
>
> It wasn't a crime to disclose Ms. Plame's identity (she hadn't been
> covert for more than five years)
That claim is contested.
> and it was Deputy Secretary of State
> Richard Armitage who outed her, not Mr. Libby.
Libby leaked her name after Armitage did, but in his first leak (to
Miller) he was unaware of Armitage's action, and in his second leak (to
Novak) he knew that Plame was not yet outed.
Josh Rosenbluth
FACE
asc...@zdnetonebox.com, wrote
<Xen...@aol.com> wrote in message news:
>1183558066....@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
FACE
Donna Evleth
> From: PJ O'Donovan <Xen...@aol.com>
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups:
> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,talk.politics.misc,aus.politics,so
> c.retirement
> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:47:57 -0700
> Subject: Mr Bush got it right unlike Mr Clinton
>
> July 04, 2007
> Bush Got It Right... Unlike Mr. Clinton
> By Jack Kelly
>
> "Scooter" Libby will serve as much time in prison for lying under oath
> to a federal grand jury as Bill Clinton served for lying under oath to
> a federal grand jury.
So your belief is that two wrongs make a right. As long as it is a
right-wing right.
Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
1183565698.1...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com, "Capitalist Pig"
<cochon-ca...@hotmail.com> wrote:
The original poster was really talking about the criminalization of
America by allowing important public "servants" to get away with
criminal perjury.
Stephen Bach, you are well acquainted with criminal activity.
But you are unlikely to get a pardon from Sarkozy.
Donna Evleth
> From: asc...@zdnetonebox.com
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups:
> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,talk.politics.misc,aus.politics,so
> c.retirement
> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:15:25 -0700
> Subject: Re: Mr Bush got it right unlike Mr Clinton
>
> Most people remember their first kiss.
>
> Doctors remember their first cadaver.
Reluctantly snipped for brevity. This was a nice article. I have read
before that medical students remember their first cadavers, whom they have
to dissect, and that during the process they develop great respect for them.
This is as it should be. And some of those who donate their bodies to
medical schools do so in the hope that their corpse can provide an answer to
what killed them, and thus help others.
Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
Evleth" <dev...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>> "Scooter" Libby will serve as much time in prison for lying under oath
>> to a federal grand jury as Bill Clinton served for lying under oath to
>> a federal grand jury.
>
> So your belief is that two wrongs make a right. As long as it is a
> right-wing right.
Worse, PJ is equating criminal perjury in which Libby lied to divert
a criminal investigation and civil perjury in a private dispute in which
Clinton was lying to protect his private life from exposure and that of
the woman he had a liaison with.
He lied about a relationship in which a criminal issue did not arise.
In strong contrast--
So we see in the Libby affair lies which arose from an investigation
brought at the demand of the CIA by an investigator named by the
President. The President knew all along if that things turned
out badly he could always grant absolution like a priest.
So when a person near the president commits a crime the
Constitution allows him to get away with it. And it seems
to be a Republican way of life. Bush's father did the same
thing with those convicted in the Irangate fiasco.
Robert
>
>
>July 04, 2007
>Bush Got It Right... Unlike Mr. Clinton
>By Jack Kelly
>That's rich, as in Marc Rich, the financier who fled the country to
>avoid prosecution for tax evasion, fraud and "trading with the enemy."
>On his last day in office, President Clinton pardoned Mr. Rich after
>his ex-wife, Denise (with whom Mr. Clinton reportedly had been
>sleeping) donated $1 million to the Democratic party and $10,000 to
>the Clintons' legal defense fund.
Mark Rich had the best lawyer that dirty money could buy...Scooter Libby.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/10/s...onnection.html
>Others among the 140 Mr. Clinton pardoned on his last day in office
>were Henry Cisneros, his former Housing secretary who was convicted of
>lying to federal officials;
Cisneros pleaded guilty to a single misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI about
money he paid to a former mistress. $50,000 fine, no prison or probation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/cisneros/stories/cisneros090899.htm
>Susan McDougal, his former partner in the
>Whitewater land deal,
She spent 18 months in prison including 7 weeks in solitary confinement for
civil contempt of court.
Robert
John Rennie
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:C2B1A47A.54C1D%dev...@wanadoo.fr...
What little belief that peejay possesses is that 'if they did it we can do
it'. However, Donna, deep down I just don't give a damn about Libby
getting off. I care about the fact that the US's chief executive is a two
faced lying dimwit easily manipulated by another two faced lying dimwit.
They should both stand trial and spend the rest of their days in prison.
Just for peejay's benefit I felt almost the same way about Clinton when he
ordered bombing raids on Sudan and Afghanistan just a day or so after the
revelations about a stained dress were made public.
Donna Evleth
> From: "John Rennie" <john-...@talktalk.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:53:01 +0100
> Subject: Re: Mr Bush got it right unlike Mr Clinton
>
> What little belief that peejay possesses is that 'if they did it we can do
> it'. However, Donna, deep down I just don't give a damn about Libby
> getting off. I care about the fact that the US's chief executive is a two
> faced lying dimwit easily manipulated by another two faced lying dimwit.
> They should both stand trial and spend the rest of their days in prison.
> Just for peejay's benefit I felt almost the same way about Clinton when he
> ordered bombing raids on Sudan and Afghanistan just a day or so after the
> revelations about a stained dress were made public.
Hear, hear.
Donna Evleth
>