Jamie Drzewicki, Florida
Earl Evleth
Jamie reached her employer-sponsored insurance plan�s $100,000
annual limit after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. As a result, she
amassed about $75,000 in unpaid medical bills. Her hospital eventually
forgave $40,000 of her debt, but about $30,000 in debt remains. The
medical debt caused significant stress for Jamie, who received many calls
from collection agencies.
Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)
Considering the above as true, she apparently got $130,000 out of
$160,000 in her medical expenses paid. I would think that figuring
out how to control the paying off of last $30,000 would be helpful.
Should she be hounded about it? Most importantly, should an
interest rate, and what rate, should be attached?
--
Tiger tells eleven mistresses, "I will leave my wife for you."
Earl Evleth
{Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
<tribuylt...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Considering the above as true, she apparently got $130,000 out of
> $160,000 in her medical expenses paid. I would think that figuring
> out how to control the paying off of last $30,000 would be helpful.
> Should she be hounded about it? Most importantly, should an
> interest rate, and what rate, should be attached?
You are a poor accountant
The total was $175,000 of which $100,000 was covered by insurance
and $75,000 remained. These were no doubt debts to, various
individuals or services. Of the $75,000 the hospital gave up
on $40,000 leaving $35,000. The article says $30,000, the short
fall of $5,000 is not important
We don't otherwise know her circumstances, but likely is
no longer working and has no major income and can't pay
off the debt.
So, as with many people she should file bankruptcy.
I had a grad student from Syria who had two sons born in France
while he was studying under me (he earn his doctorate with me).
One son was born prematurely and we kept several months in the
hospital. He had $40,000 of bills uncovered by assurance. Her
in France, in similar situations they will not try and collect
which was true in his case. The baby grew up and as an adult
was a successful real estate developer. No doubt he paid high
taxes. In that sense the state recovered its $40,000. His father
remained in France and took French citizenship.
The difference is that the USA has a cruel and unusual medical
"care" system. France does not.
You might now report on your hiking experiences, you phony.
Runge11
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"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> a �crit dans le message de groupe de
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Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 20/12/09 20:01, in article 4B2E748E...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde
> {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
> <tribuylt...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > Considering the above as true, she apparently got $130,000 out of
> > $160,000 in her medical expenses paid. I would think that figuring
> > out how to control the paying off of last $30,000 would be helpful.
> > Should she be hounded about it? Most importantly, should an
> > interest rate, and what rate, should be attached?
>
> You are a poor accountant
>
I didn't claim to be an accountant.
> The total was $175,000 of which $100,000 was covered by insurance
> and $75,000 remained. These were no doubt debts to, various
> individuals or services. Of the $75,000 the hospital gave up
> on $40,000 leaving $35,000. The article says $30,000, the short
> fall of $5,000 is not important
>
Actually, it shows that the article was written by a poor
accountant. I just used one possible set of numbers. You couldn't
refute what I said, as usual, so you went off on irrelevancies like
which of the set of numbers is correct. Probably none of the
numbers are correct.
> We don't otherwise know her circumstances, but likely is
> no longer working and has no major income and can't pay
> off the debt.
>
If she had plenty of income, she could pay off the debt, so that's
a pretty easy guess, Earl.
> So, as with many people she should file bankruptcy.
>
Really? So the insurance of $100K and the forgiving of $40K (or
whatever the numbers are) are irrelevant, she's going to go
bankrupt anyway?
> I had a grad student from Syria who had two sons born in France
> while he was studying under me (he earn his doctorate with me).
> One son was born prematurely and we kept several months in the
> hospital. He had $40,000 of bills uncovered by assurance. Her
> in France, in similar situations they will not try and collect
> which was true in his case. The baby grew up and as an adult
> was a successful real estate developer. No doubt he paid high
> taxes. In that sense the state recovered its $40,000. His father
> remained in France and took French citizenship.
>
> The difference is that the USA has a cruel and unusual medical
> "care" system. France does not.
>
I suspect you'll make this "argument" over anything, that whatever
people want should be given to them for free. But people have
unlimited wants, Earl. It's money, which is earned (or not) that is
a chit against whatever these wants are.
Earl Evleth
>>
>> You are a poor accountant
>>
> I didn't claim to be an accountant.
So you can't balance your check book?
Assuming you have one.
>
>
>
>> The total was $175,000 of which $100,000 was covered by insurance
>> and $75,000 remained. These were no doubt debts to, various
>> individuals or services. Of the $75,000 the hospital gave up
>> on $40,000 leaving $35,000. The article says $30,000, the short
>> fall of $5,000 is not important
>>
> Actually, it shows that the article was written by a poor
> accountant.
Everybody in the US that runs up this kind of health costs has
a considerable "out of pocket" expenses. Actually $5000 would
be low. The article was short and not supposed to be an accounting
to the last $. The important figure is a short fall of $75,000
which was her's to pay. She could not and so she gets hassled for
the payments. This is what drives people into personal bankruptcy
in the US, and not in France.
> Probably none of the numbers are correct.
You are listening to a tune in your otherwise empty head.
> If she had plenty of income, she could pay off the debt, so that's
> a pretty easy guess, Earl.
"If". The "if" does not exist with people declaring bankruptcy.
Why not assume that she can not pay off the debt. At least to
avoid the hassle.
In France we have an institutional debt collector, the huissier
(http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huissier_de_justice), he/she is actually
is appointed by the minister of the interior. They can do a variety
of things, collect court ordered payments to victims is one of them.
In the extreme they are authorized to break into a residence and
remove items to be sold at auction to meet the bills. Next,
bankruptcy is uncommon in France, it is the very very last resort
to solving one's debt problems. But it is also true that unpaid
medical bills are not part of the problem in France.
>> So, as with many people she should file bankruptcy.
>>
> Really? So the insurance of $100K and the forgiving of $40K (or
> whatever the numbers are) are irrelevant, she's going to go
> bankrupt anyway?
We don't know. If she has not assets or income which could
pay off the $30,000 debt remaining she could. Her asset situation
must be weak if the hospital wrote off a $40,000 debt. But
her other creditors are not so "generous". Typically they
hand over the collection problem to a professional organization
which gets paid for hounding, sometimes they touch 50% of the take.
So you end up with a guy who makes a living off of hounding people.
If she owed a particular doctor $10,000 he does not want to be
in the position of hounding to he turns it over to the hounders
by profession.
The median net worth of Americans is well known, as a function of
age and earnings. Those in the lowest 10% of income earners have
essentially zero net worth. There is no blood in those stones.
Most people do not have enough liquid assets to support themselves
more than a month when unemployed. For those earning between
$30,000-40,000 the median is $3500. So lower income people
can not meet a $30,000 debt. If they pay from income, like
10% per year it would take 10 years to pay off $30,000 in the
absent of interest charges. In fact the interest charges
alone would take up a major portion of a $3000 a year payment.
You obviously have no talents in the accounting area which
may explain your own financial problems.
Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 20/12/09 23:20, in article 4B2EA31C...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde
> {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
> <tribuylt...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> You are a poor accountant
> >>
> > I didn't claim to be an accountant.
>
> So you can't balance your check book?
> Assuming you have one.
>
So now I've got to be an accountant to have a check book? This is
nearly 2010, Earl, now'days people can go online and look at their
balance in near real time.
> >> The total was $175,000 of which $100,000 was covered by insurance
> >> and $75,000 remained. These were no doubt debts to, various
> >> individuals or services. Of the $75,000 the hospital gave up
> >> on $40,000 leaving $35,000. The article says $30,000, the short
> >> fall of $5,000 is not important
> >>
> > Actually, it shows that the article was written by a poor
> > accountant.
>
> Everybody in the US that runs up this kind of health costs has
> a considerable "out of pocket" expenses. Actually $5000 would
> be low. The article was short and not supposed to be an accounting
> to the last $. The important figure is a short fall of $75,000
> which was her's to pay.
>
"hers to pay"
> She could not and so she gets hassled for
> the payments. This is what drives people into personal bankruptcy
> in the US, and not in France.
>
In France, there is a system in place to provide free health care
to all. We know that, Earl.
> > Probably none of the numbers are correct.
>
> You are listening to a tune in your otherwise empty head.
>
Thanks Earl, you are so friendly.
> > If she had plenty of income, she could pay off the debt, so that's
> > a pretty easy guess, Earl.
>
> "If". The "if" does not exist with people declaring bankruptcy.
>
I'm pointing out that you aren't saying anything that isn't
obvious, Earl. Whether she should go bankrupt over $30K, I can't
say.
> Why not assume that she can not pay off the debt. At least to
> avoid the hassle.
>
> In France we have an institutional debt collector, the huissier
> (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huissier_de_justice), he/she is actually
> is appointed by the minister of the interior. They can do a variety
> of things, collect court ordered payments to victims is one of them.
> In the extreme they are authorized to break into a residence and
> remove items to be sold at auction to meet the bills. Next,
> bankruptcy is uncommon in France, it is the very very last resort
> to solving one's debt problems. But it is also true that unpaid
> medical bills are not part of the problem in France.
>
I'm must have missed where I claimed they were.
> >> So, as with many people she should file bankruptcy.
> >>
> > Really? So the insurance of $100K and the forgiving of $40K (or
> > whatever the numbers are) are irrelevant, she's going to go
> > bankrupt anyway?
>
> We don't know. If she has not assets or income which could
> pay off the $30,000 debt remaining she could.
>
She could go bankrupt if she owed a dollar she couldn't pay.
Reportedly, some people tried to go bankrupt before the law change
even though they had no debts at all. They didn't really understand
what bankruptcy does.
> Her asset situation
> must be weak if the hospital wrote off a $40,000 debt. But
>
Or there are ways in the US to get medical care even if you don't
have enough insurance. So maybe if she's healthy now, she can start
to pay off the remaining expenses or wait until the statute of
limitations is over.
> her other creditors are not so "generous". Typically they
> hand over the collection problem to a professional organization
> which gets paid for hounding, sometimes they touch 50% of the take.
> So you end up with a guy who makes a living off of hounding people.
>
I guess everyone has their fun.
> If she owed a particular doctor $10,000 he does not want to be
> in the position of hounding to he turns it over to the hounders
> by profession.
>
I would think so. Or he'll sell the alleged debt to the hounders.
> The median net worth of Americans is well known, as a function of
> age and earnings. Those in the lowest 10% of income earners have
> essentially zero net worth. There is no blood in those stones.
> Most people do not have enough liquid assets to support themselves
> more than a month when unemployed. For those earning between
> $30,000-40,000 the median is $3500. So lower income people
> can not meet a $30,000 debt.
>
They can't as a cash payout. But they could over time if the
interest rate was reasonable. $30K isn't that much money.
> If they pay from income, like
> 10% per year it would take 10 years to pay off $30,000 in the
> absent of interest charges. In fact the interest charges
> alone would take up a major portion of a $3000 a year payment.
>
It's likely that they'd find some way to make the interest payments
take more than the person could pay. I was reading about one lady
who'd paid several times more than she'd owed and they claimed she
owed more than ever.
> You obviously have no talents in the accounting area which
> may explain your own financial problems.
>
What are you talking about now, Earl?
Earl Evleth
>>
>> So you can't balance your check book?
>> Assuming you have one.
>>
> So now I've got to be an accountant to have a check book? This is
> nearly 2010, Earl, now'days people can go online and look at their
> balance in near real time.
So you accept the accounting of your bank, after all THEY have done
recently!
>>
> "hers to pay"
if she can, and if she can't?
>
>
>> She could not and so she gets hassled for
>> the payments. This is what drives people into personal bankruptcy
>> in the US, and not in France.
>>
> In France, there is a system in place to provide free health care
> to all. We know that, Earl.
Now don't stress the "free part", I contribute heavily as a high
salaried professional for year and never touched a centime.
>
>>> Probably none of the numbers are correct.
>>
>> You are listening to a tune in your otherwise empty head.
>>
> Thanks Earl, you are so friendly.
Make no error in that regard.
Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 21/12/09 18:34, in article 4B2FB189...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde
> {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
> <tribuylt...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >> So you can't balance your check book?
> >> Assuming you have one.
> >>
> > So now I've got to be an accountant to have a check book? This is
> > nearly 2010, Earl, now'days people can go online and look at their
> > balance in near real time.
>
> So you accept the accounting of your bank, after all THEY have done
> recently!
>
Generally, I keep track of things as they are going through.
> > "hers to pay"
>
> if she can, and if she can't?
>
Wait out the statute of limitations?
> >> She could not and so she gets hassled for
> >> the payments. This is what drives people into personal bankruptcy
> >> in the US, and not in France.
> >>
> > In France, there is a system in place to provide free health care
> > to all. We know that, Earl.
>
> Now don't stress the "free part", I contribute heavily as a high
> salaried professional for year and never touched a centime.
>
The question might be how to build a system that encourages better
use of the health care that is available. If it's all free when you
use it, that doesn't encourage that.
>
> >>> Probably none of the numbers are correct.
> >>
> >> You are listening to a tune in your otherwise empty head.
> >>
> > Thanks Earl, you are so friendly.
>
> Make no error in that regard.
>
Obviously I was being sarcastic.
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
> <tribuylt...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:19:36 +0000
> Subject: Re: Jamie Drzewicki, Florida
IMO the best kind of health care system stresses prevention. If doctors'
calls for routine vaccinations are too expensive, people will skip them.
Some diseases, like diabetes, are much easier to manage if caught early.
You seem fixated on "all free". Our system is not "all free", but it is
affordable for the vast majority of the people. And it stresses prevention.
For example, pregnant women are paid to have a certain number of prenatal
visits. The system has found that in the long run this is far cheaper than
having a lot of complicated deliveries and, especially, premature babies.
Donna Evleth
>
Runge11
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@wanadoo.fr> a �crit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : C7566B49.84A4D%dev...@wanadoo.fr...