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Behind the Lines With Krugman's Army - A visit to "occupied" Zuccotti Park.
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Ubiquitous
Oct 18, 2011, 5:11:07 AM10/18/11
to
NEW YORK--We didn't think "Occupy Wall Street" worth going to see, but we
were in the neighborhood Saturday night, having just left a party a block
away, so we decided to drop in and see it. We spent a couple of hours
chatting with people in the park and found them to be, with one
exception, endearingly earnest.
The exception was a middle-aged man who became agitated when he heard us
tell somebody else that we found the scapegoating of a minority, clearly
implied by the ubiquitous slogan "I am the 99%," creepy. Not wanting to
start a fight, we directed our attention and conversation to someone else
nearby, which eventually deflated the angry fellow, who wandered off.
But everyone else we met was very nice. Our experiences were in line with
those of The New Republic's Walter Shapiro, who visited last week: "What
struck me was the sincere and good-natured smallness of it all." As we
wandered through the park, we saw no alcohol but a fair amount of pot,
probably a good combination if you want to keep things mellow.
Possibly there was a selection bias at work, in which the disruptive
elements were away from the park at the time we visited. The Wall Street
Journal reports that "thousands of anti-corporate protesters marched
Saturday from New York City's Financial District to Times Square in a
show of force that resulted in 74 arrests."
On a taxi uptown after we left, we saw a band of between 12 and 20 young
men, at least one wearing a face mask, striding down the street. Some of
them were in the middle of the street, interfering with traffic and
shouting slogans (this was after midnight). On the sidewalk to the right
as our taxi rolled past, it appeared some of the protesters were
scuffling with policemen. Perhaps the Zuccotti crowd would have been more
menacing if we had waited for their return.
No one we met seemed to care much for Barack Obama. Indeed, at one point,
when we started analyzing how it might affect the president's re-election
effort, somebody interjected: "This isn't about Obama." Our surmise is
that people who sought meaning in "hope and change" three years ago have
by now given up and are looking elsewhere.
The name of former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, ostensibly the commander
of this army, never even came up. "For these kids who are driving this
thing, being in The New York Times doesn't mean sh-- to them,"
documentarian Danny Schechter tells TNR's Shapiro. "It's not their frame
of reference."
The only media figures we heard mentioned during our visit to the park
were Fox News president Roger Ailes and, as one guy put it, "your boss,
Rupert Murdoch," chairman of News Corp. It's true that the Occupiers
regard Fox with suspicion and hostility, but to hear them tell it, it is
the only medium that matters. We salute our Fox colleagues for a
brilliant marketing job. They have managed to embed their brand in the
minds of the young generation, some of whom, when they get older and more
sophisticated, we predict will become loyal viewers.
For a protest against business, Occupy Wall Street seems to be generating
a lot of it. For one thing, it's a tourist attraction: We talked to a
college girl visiting from Salt Lake City and a guy who had come up from
Maryland. (He is photographer Ed Fagan, whose work accompanies this
column and whose protest slide show can be viewed here. He is available
for weddings and other occasions.)
Food trucks were lined up along the perimeter of the park in what,
outside business hours, is normally a quiet residential neighborhood.
Which leads us to the worst aspect of Occupy Wall Street: its effect on
the local quality of life. The party we went to was in a private
residence, and people there who lived nearby were unanimous in wanting
the Occupiers gone.
People who live in small towns, suburbs or sprawling cities may not
appreciate just how close Manhattanites dwell to city life. In many parts
of the city, you step outside your apartment building and are right in
the middle of the hustle and bustle. That is part of the charm of living
in Manhattan, and people who choose to live here do so with full
awareness of the attendant nuisances, from bums to street fairs.
But residents of the financial district couldn't have known they were
moving next door to a perpetual hippie festival. Zuccotti Park, although
subject to an easement for public use, was never intended as a
round-the-clock protest zone. Occupy Wall Street has gone on for a month
now. For the people who live nearby, that's about 29 days too long.
--
"If Barack Obama isn't careful, he will become the Jimmy Carter of the
21st century."
were in the neighborhood Saturday night, having just left a party a block
away, so we decided to drop in and see it. We spent a couple of hours
chatting with people in the park and found them to be, with one
exception, endearingly earnest.
The exception was a middle-aged man who became agitated when he heard us
tell somebody else that we found the scapegoating of a minority, clearly
implied by the ubiquitous slogan "I am the 99%," creepy. Not wanting to
start a fight, we directed our attention and conversation to someone else
nearby, which eventually deflated the angry fellow, who wandered off.
But everyone else we met was very nice. Our experiences were in line with
those of The New Republic's Walter Shapiro, who visited last week: "What
struck me was the sincere and good-natured smallness of it all." As we
wandered through the park, we saw no alcohol but a fair amount of pot,
probably a good combination if you want to keep things mellow.
Possibly there was a selection bias at work, in which the disruptive
elements were away from the park at the time we visited. The Wall Street
Journal reports that "thousands of anti-corporate protesters marched
Saturday from New York City's Financial District to Times Square in a
show of force that resulted in 74 arrests."
On a taxi uptown after we left, we saw a band of between 12 and 20 young
men, at least one wearing a face mask, striding down the street. Some of
them were in the middle of the street, interfering with traffic and
shouting slogans (this was after midnight). On the sidewalk to the right
as our taxi rolled past, it appeared some of the protesters were
scuffling with policemen. Perhaps the Zuccotti crowd would have been more
menacing if we had waited for their return.
No one we met seemed to care much for Barack Obama. Indeed, at one point,
when we started analyzing how it might affect the president's re-election
effort, somebody interjected: "This isn't about Obama." Our surmise is
that people who sought meaning in "hope and change" three years ago have
by now given up and are looking elsewhere.
The name of former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, ostensibly the commander
of this army, never even came up. "For these kids who are driving this
thing, being in The New York Times doesn't mean sh-- to them,"
documentarian Danny Schechter tells TNR's Shapiro. "It's not their frame
of reference."
The only media figures we heard mentioned during our visit to the park
were Fox News president Roger Ailes and, as one guy put it, "your boss,
Rupert Murdoch," chairman of News Corp. It's true that the Occupiers
regard Fox with suspicion and hostility, but to hear them tell it, it is
the only medium that matters. We salute our Fox colleagues for a
brilliant marketing job. They have managed to embed their brand in the
minds of the young generation, some of whom, when they get older and more
sophisticated, we predict will become loyal viewers.
For a protest against business, Occupy Wall Street seems to be generating
a lot of it. For one thing, it's a tourist attraction: We talked to a
college girl visiting from Salt Lake City and a guy who had come up from
Maryland. (He is photographer Ed Fagan, whose work accompanies this
column and whose protest slide show can be viewed here. He is available
for weddings and other occasions.)
Food trucks were lined up along the perimeter of the park in what,
outside business hours, is normally a quiet residential neighborhood.
Which leads us to the worst aspect of Occupy Wall Street: its effect on
the local quality of life. The party we went to was in a private
residence, and people there who lived nearby were unanimous in wanting
the Occupiers gone.
People who live in small towns, suburbs or sprawling cities may not
appreciate just how close Manhattanites dwell to city life. In many parts
of the city, you step outside your apartment building and are right in
the middle of the hustle and bustle. That is part of the charm of living
in Manhattan, and people who choose to live here do so with full
awareness of the attendant nuisances, from bums to street fairs.
But residents of the financial district couldn't have known they were
moving next door to a perpetual hippie festival. Zuccotti Park, although
subject to an easement for public use, was never intended as a
round-the-clock protest zone. Occupy Wall Street has gone on for a month
now. For the people who live nearby, that's about 29 days too long.
--
"If Barack Obama isn't careful, he will become the Jimmy Carter of the
21st century."
Nickname unavailable
Oct 18, 2011, 11:02:34 AM10/18/11
to
On Oct 18, 4:11 am, Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net> wrote:
More options Oct 18, 12:14 am
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics, sci.econ
From: Nickname unavailable <Vide...@tcq.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 22:14:39 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Oct 18 2011 12:14 am
Subject: Google find read articles/books by Krugman/Stiglitz/Reich/
Baker/Kuttner/Roubini/Galbraith/ Johnson/Madrick/Naomi Klein/ West/
Hacker/McKibben/Ferguson/Lessig/Ratigan/Sachs:The Krugman/Stiglitz
Army Is on the March
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Remove | Report this message | Find messages by this author
Google find read articles/books by Krugman/Stiglitz/Reich/Baker/
Kuttner/Roubini/Galbraith/ Johnson/Madrick/Naomi Klein/ West/Hacker/
McKibben/Ferguson/Lessig/Ratigan/Sachs:The Krugman/Stiglitz Army Is on
the March
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/the-krugmanstiglitz-arm...
Miles Mogulescu
Entertainment attorney, writer, and political activist
The Krugman/Stiglitz Army Is on the March (and It's Too Late for
Michael Bloomberg to Stop It)
Posted: 10/14/11 05:04 PM ET
When the Pope criticized Stalin's treatment of Catholics, Stalin
famously asked, "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"
When Paul Krugman criticized the Obama administration for including
too many tax cuts in a too-small stimulus package, Rahm Emanuel
famously asked, "How many bills has he passed?"
As I write, New York's Billionaire Mayor Bloomberg has, at least for
the moment, wisely backed off from a threat of a police action to
remove the #Occupy Wall Street protesters from Zuccotti Park. The
#Occuppy Wall Street/We Are the 99% Movement has reached a critical
mass where, in the face of police repression, it's only likely to grow
bigger, stronger and smarter as it spreads throughout the country and
the world. (When former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak sent police
and thugs to break up to Tahrir Square protests, their numbers only
swelled.)
The protesters have clearly identified the enemy as Wall Street greed
and the growing concentration of wealth and political power in the
richest 1%. (For those of you in the media or other readers who still
don't get what the protestors are upset about, The Business Insider's
Henry Blodget clearly spells it out in these graphics.) However, the
protesters haven't put forth a traditional list of "demands" or policy
proposals. These may or may not come in time as short-term protests
evolve into long-term movements.
But the problem is not a shortage of policy ideas on how to reduce the
power of the Wall Street financial sector, create jobs, strengthen the
middle class, restructure the economy, and reduce the influence of
money in politics. The problem is that, until now, there's been no
political force fighting for such principles to give them political
traction. In short, the likes of Nobel Prize-winning economist like
Paul Krugman and Robert Stiglitz, and former Clinton Labor Secretary
Robert Reich have had no "army" to take on the army of organized money
and lobbyists bent on insuring their ideas get no traction with
politicians who rely on big money to get elected.
With the #Occupy Wall Street protests spreading to cities around the
country and the world, that may be about to change. The Krugman/
Stiglitz Army* may be starting to march.
Whether or not the somewhat anarchic, consensus-driven General
Assemblies of the various occupations (which are both their strength
and weakness) officially adopt the specific policy proposals of the
likes of Krugman, Stiglitz, Reich, and other creative economic and
political thinkers, the rapidly growing "We are the 99%" movement may
provide the jet propulsion to thrust them into the world of practical
politics.
Many of the people occupying Wall Street and other cities around the
country or engaging in related actions rang doorbells, made phone
calls and gave small contributions as part of a massive grassroots
movement to elect Barack Obama. But after November, 2008, believing
that Obama's election would be enough to bring the "Change they could
believe in", most of them demobilized and went back to their daily
lives, hoping Obama would be a new FDR and enact transformational
structural change to strengthen the middle class and limit the power
of Wall Street.
Once elected, Obama ditched campaign advisors like Joe Stiglitz and
Paul Volker for a Wall Street- friendly economic team led by Larry
Summers and Tim Geithner that did everything in its power to block
structural change to the financial system of the type advocated by the
likes of Stiglitz, Krugman and Reich. (See Ron Suskind's new book
"Confidence Men: Washington, Wall Street and the Education of a
President.")
If there was a popular counter-weight, it came entirely from the Tea
Party right which fought for even less regulation of Wall Street and
even lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy. With financial
backing from the likes of the Koch Brothers, media support from Fox
News, and organizational help from the likes of Freedomworks (headed
by former Republican House Majority Dick Armey), the Tea Party has
succeeded beyond its wildest dreams in substituting deficit reduction
for jobs creation as the political focus not only of Republicans but
also of many Democrats, including Obama (at least until Obama's
rhetorical pivot to jobs creation in the past month).
At the very least, the protests of the #Occupy Wall Street Movement
and the many spin-offs it's likely to generate in coming months have
the power to shift the political debate back from a focus on short-
term deficit reduction to job creation.
On a more profound level, the growing "We are the 99%" movement may
provide the political army to thrust the policy proposals of some of
America's leading public intellectuals into the political arena. In
addition to Krugman, Stiglitz and Reich, they include other economists
like Dean Baker, Robert Kuttner, Nouriel Roubini, James Galbraith,
Simon Johnson and Jeff Madrick; public intellectuals like Naomi Klein,
Cornell West, and Jacob Hacker; climate change activists like Bill
McKibben, and campaigners to get money out of politics like Lawrence
Lessig, Thomas Ferguson and Dylan Ratigan. (See video of Stiglitz,
Madrick, Klein, West, McGibben and Ratigan speaking to the #Occupy
Wall Street demonstrators by clicking on their names, indicating a
burgeoning tie between the people in the streets and the people with
the policy ideas. While Krugman blogs that his position as a NY Times
writer restricts him from joining the protest, he also blogs that "my
army may have arrived".
The policy proposals put forth by some of these creative thinkers**
include:
• Enact robust public infrastructure investment (including green
infrastructure) that stimulates sustained employment-generating
demand.
• Restructure mortgages and other consumer and student debt including
principal reduction (a version of which is supported even by Ronald
Reagan's chief economic advisor Martin Feldstein). • Break up the
biggest banks so they're small enough to fail. • Reinstate Glass-
Steagall to separate federally insured commercial banks from risky
investment banks. • Add surtaxes on the wealthiest Americans.
• Increase the 15% capital gains taxe to more closely equalize tax
rates between wealth and work.
• End the hedge fund manager loophole which taxes their compensation
at 15%.
• Enact a financial transactions tax to raise $100 billion a year and
reduce speculation.
• End the War in Afghanistan and substantially reduce Cold-War level
military budgets.
• Pursue civil and criminal prosecutions of Wall Street speculators
whose fraudulent activities caused the financial crisis--send some
bankers to jail.
• Adopt Medicare For All to join the rest of the advanced capitalist
world in providing universal health care at half the per capita cost
as the US.
• End the influence of money in politics which is often the reason
such common sense reforms fail to get political tractions from
politicians who rely on big money contributions to get elected.
Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi has just published his own suggested 5
point program which overlaps with much of the above.
Whether or not the the #Occupy Wall Street protesters explicitly adopt
such policy proposals or only generate political energy for the spirit
of them, the Krugman/Stiglitz Army is at last on the march. As Krugman
himself blogs, "this may be the start of something both big and good".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Credit to Rick Yeselson writing on Ezra Klein's Washington Post blog
for first alluding to the concept of Krugman's army
**For readers interested in more specific policy proposals on how to
reduce the power of Wall Street, create jobs, strengthen the middle
class, restructure the economy, and reduce the influence of money in
politics, Google and find read articles and books to read by Paul
Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, Robert Reich, Dean Baker, Robert Kuttner,
Nouriel Roubini, James Galbraith, Simon Johnson, Jeff Madrick, Naomi
Klein, Cornell West, Jacob Hacker, Bill McKibben, Thomas Ferguson,
Lawrence Lessig and Dylan Ratigan, among others.
More options Oct 18, 12:14 am
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics, sci.econ
From: Nickname unavailable <Vide...@tcq.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 22:14:39 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Oct 18 2011 12:14 am
Subject: Google find read articles/books by Krugman/Stiglitz/Reich/
Baker/Kuttner/Roubini/Galbraith/ Johnson/Madrick/Naomi Klein/ West/
Hacker/McKibben/Ferguson/Lessig/Ratigan/Sachs:The Krugman/Stiglitz
Army Is on the March
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Remove | Report this message | Find messages by this author
Google find read articles/books by Krugman/Stiglitz/Reich/Baker/
Kuttner/Roubini/Galbraith/ Johnson/Madrick/Naomi Klein/ West/Hacker/
McKibben/Ferguson/Lessig/Ratigan/Sachs:The Krugman/Stiglitz Army Is on
the March
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/the-krugmanstiglitz-arm...
Miles Mogulescu
Entertainment attorney, writer, and political activist
The Krugman/Stiglitz Army Is on the March (and It's Too Late for
Michael Bloomberg to Stop It)
Posted: 10/14/11 05:04 PM ET
When the Pope criticized Stalin's treatment of Catholics, Stalin
famously asked, "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"
When Paul Krugman criticized the Obama administration for including
too many tax cuts in a too-small stimulus package, Rahm Emanuel
famously asked, "How many bills has he passed?"
As I write, New York's Billionaire Mayor Bloomberg has, at least for
the moment, wisely backed off from a threat of a police action to
remove the #Occupy Wall Street protesters from Zuccotti Park. The
#Occuppy Wall Street/We Are the 99% Movement has reached a critical
mass where, in the face of police repression, it's only likely to grow
bigger, stronger and smarter as it spreads throughout the country and
the world. (When former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak sent police
and thugs to break up to Tahrir Square protests, their numbers only
swelled.)
The protesters have clearly identified the enemy as Wall Street greed
and the growing concentration of wealth and political power in the
richest 1%. (For those of you in the media or other readers who still
don't get what the protestors are upset about, The Business Insider's
Henry Blodget clearly spells it out in these graphics.) However, the
protesters haven't put forth a traditional list of "demands" or policy
proposals. These may or may not come in time as short-term protests
evolve into long-term movements.
But the problem is not a shortage of policy ideas on how to reduce the
power of the Wall Street financial sector, create jobs, strengthen the
middle class, restructure the economy, and reduce the influence of
money in politics. The problem is that, until now, there's been no
political force fighting for such principles to give them political
traction. In short, the likes of Nobel Prize-winning economist like
Paul Krugman and Robert Stiglitz, and former Clinton Labor Secretary
Robert Reich have had no "army" to take on the army of organized money
and lobbyists bent on insuring their ideas get no traction with
politicians who rely on big money to get elected.
With the #Occupy Wall Street protests spreading to cities around the
country and the world, that may be about to change. The Krugman/
Stiglitz Army* may be starting to march.
Whether or not the somewhat anarchic, consensus-driven General
Assemblies of the various occupations (which are both their strength
and weakness) officially adopt the specific policy proposals of the
likes of Krugman, Stiglitz, Reich, and other creative economic and
political thinkers, the rapidly growing "We are the 99%" movement may
provide the jet propulsion to thrust them into the world of practical
politics.
Many of the people occupying Wall Street and other cities around the
country or engaging in related actions rang doorbells, made phone
calls and gave small contributions as part of a massive grassroots
movement to elect Barack Obama. But after November, 2008, believing
that Obama's election would be enough to bring the "Change they could
believe in", most of them demobilized and went back to their daily
lives, hoping Obama would be a new FDR and enact transformational
structural change to strengthen the middle class and limit the power
of Wall Street.
Once elected, Obama ditched campaign advisors like Joe Stiglitz and
Paul Volker for a Wall Street- friendly economic team led by Larry
Summers and Tim Geithner that did everything in its power to block
structural change to the financial system of the type advocated by the
likes of Stiglitz, Krugman and Reich. (See Ron Suskind's new book
"Confidence Men: Washington, Wall Street and the Education of a
President.")
If there was a popular counter-weight, it came entirely from the Tea
Party right which fought for even less regulation of Wall Street and
even lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy. With financial
backing from the likes of the Koch Brothers, media support from Fox
News, and organizational help from the likes of Freedomworks (headed
by former Republican House Majority Dick Armey), the Tea Party has
succeeded beyond its wildest dreams in substituting deficit reduction
for jobs creation as the political focus not only of Republicans but
also of many Democrats, including Obama (at least until Obama's
rhetorical pivot to jobs creation in the past month).
At the very least, the protests of the #Occupy Wall Street Movement
and the many spin-offs it's likely to generate in coming months have
the power to shift the political debate back from a focus on short-
term deficit reduction to job creation.
On a more profound level, the growing "We are the 99%" movement may
provide the political army to thrust the policy proposals of some of
America's leading public intellectuals into the political arena. In
addition to Krugman, Stiglitz and Reich, they include other economists
like Dean Baker, Robert Kuttner, Nouriel Roubini, James Galbraith,
Simon Johnson and Jeff Madrick; public intellectuals like Naomi Klein,
Cornell West, and Jacob Hacker; climate change activists like Bill
McKibben, and campaigners to get money out of politics like Lawrence
Lessig, Thomas Ferguson and Dylan Ratigan. (See video of Stiglitz,
Madrick, Klein, West, McGibben and Ratigan speaking to the #Occupy
Wall Street demonstrators by clicking on their names, indicating a
burgeoning tie between the people in the streets and the people with
the policy ideas. While Krugman blogs that his position as a NY Times
writer restricts him from joining the protest, he also blogs that "my
army may have arrived".
The policy proposals put forth by some of these creative thinkers**
include:
• Enact robust public infrastructure investment (including green
infrastructure) that stimulates sustained employment-generating
demand.
• Restructure mortgages and other consumer and student debt including
principal reduction (a version of which is supported even by Ronald
Reagan's chief economic advisor Martin Feldstein). • Break up the
biggest banks so they're small enough to fail. • Reinstate Glass-
Steagall to separate federally insured commercial banks from risky
investment banks. • Add surtaxes on the wealthiest Americans.
• Increase the 15% capital gains taxe to more closely equalize tax
rates between wealth and work.
• End the hedge fund manager loophole which taxes their compensation
at 15%.
• Enact a financial transactions tax to raise $100 billion a year and
reduce speculation.
• End the War in Afghanistan and substantially reduce Cold-War level
military budgets.
• Pursue civil and criminal prosecutions of Wall Street speculators
whose fraudulent activities caused the financial crisis--send some
bankers to jail.
• Adopt Medicare For All to join the rest of the advanced capitalist
world in providing universal health care at half the per capita cost
as the US.
• End the influence of money in politics which is often the reason
such common sense reforms fail to get political tractions from
politicians who rely on big money contributions to get elected.
Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi has just published his own suggested 5
point program which overlaps with much of the above.
Whether or not the the #Occupy Wall Street protesters explicitly adopt
such policy proposals or only generate political energy for the spirit
of them, the Krugman/Stiglitz Army is at last on the march. As Krugman
himself blogs, "this may be the start of something both big and good".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Credit to Rick Yeselson writing on Ezra Klein's Washington Post blog
for first alluding to the concept of Krugman's army
**For readers interested in more specific policy proposals on how to
reduce the power of Wall Street, create jobs, strengthen the middle
class, restructure the economy, and reduce the influence of money in
politics, Google and find read articles and books to read by Paul
Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, Robert Reich, Dean Baker, Robert Kuttner,
Nouriel Roubini, James Galbraith, Simon Johnson, Jeff Madrick, Naomi
Klein, Cornell West, Jacob Hacker, Bill McKibben, Thomas Ferguson,
Lawrence Lessig and Dylan Ratigan, among others.
Clave
Oct 18, 2011, 12:12:14 PM10/18/11
to
"Ubiquitous" <web...@polaris.net> wrote in message
news:j7jniq$g96$4...@dont-email.me...
> NEW YORK--
Is there some reason you didn't want anyone to know that this was a Wall
Street Urinal op-ed?
Jim
news:j7jniq$g96$4...@dont-email.me...
> NEW YORK--
Is there some reason you didn't want anyone to know that this was a Wall
Street Urinal op-ed?
Jim
Bret Cahill
Oct 18, 2011, 1:04:15 PM10/18/11
to
> NEW YORK--We didn't think "Occupy Wall Street" worth going to see, but we
> were in the neighborhood Saturday night, having just left a party a block
> away, so we decided to drop in and see it.
If our intrepid/breezy partiers could just answer The Question:
> were in the neighborhood Saturday night, having just left a party a block
> away, so we decided to drop in and see it.
"Does free speech precede each and every free trade?"
they wouldn't look like such foolish airheads.
Bret Cahill
Nickname unavailable
Oct 18, 2011, 5:36:33 PM10/18/11
to
shrill, they are lying more than normal. as one poll after another
shows americans are solidly behind OWS.
the shrill cranks are either providing no cites, but also try to
inflate huge lies and attempts at humiliation and smears.
0 new messages