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My 'stalking' conviction

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Liz Bateman

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Jul 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/1/00
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Noel is lying. She did discuss trying to find David, and she did so
very vocally and anyone who wants to go back about a year can find her
posts and the responses to them still archived. I have indeed discussed
the area in which I live, and gave the address to a few wrongly trusted
people who gave it out to everyone else. However, I did NOT use my real
name online anywhere. It was Suzanne and Sherrie who outed my real last
name, and those posts are archived as well. I will grant that Suzanne
at first agreed to honor that confidence, but she then did not. At that
point, there seemed little point in trying to hide it because they would
just keep using it. This is the main reason I refuse to honor their
x-no archive issues.

In the meantime, this is the story of my 'stalking' conviction:

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, there lived a galactic
princess named Liz....

Back then, oh, nearing ten years or so now, I had no self esteem, and
ended up living
with the guy who would come to teach me all about what domestic violence
really meant,
and how, despite all the advances women have made, we are still men's
chattel in the
eyes of the law.

I lived with David. He raped me and abused me several times over the
course of our
relationship. He told me that if I tried to leave, he would kill me. I
believed him. I tried
going to the police once, but was told by the female officer I asked for
on the theory that
she would be more understanding that I shouldn't expect any sympathy for
picking the
guy in the first place. I turned around and walked out without making
my complaint, and
went back to him, figuring I had no where else to go and no help in
store.

When I finally got away from David, I broke off all contact with
everyone who had been in
our circle of aquaintences at the time, because I knew he would find me
through them. I
moved in with the man who would end up marrying me and fathering my
children, went
on with my life and eventually got divorced. I rarely heard from David
at all except the
couple of times I had to have him thrown out of the store I worked in.

After my divorce, I moved in with my mother for a time. Not long after
I got my own
place, I initiated contact with an old friend who knew David and I
both. Bad idea, as I'll
explain in a minute. From her I learned that he would often visit her
hoping to find me
there, that he and she would drive past the place I had moved into after
leaving him for
hours, while he told her what he was going to do to me when he got me,
how I would
sound, what he would do with my body. She actually married him herself
later, having no
self esteem either.

She and I had a falling out, and I began to get crank calls at my home.
I knew it was
David...I never even questioned it. I figured if he had my number he
probably had my
address too, and I guess I was hoping to convince him he couldn't scare
me anymore.
Each time he called and hung up, I immediately dialed call return, to
let him know I knew
it was him. I would say something like 'stop it, David' and hang up.

This went on for a few months, not long really...I never called him
directly, never once.
Each call to him is on my phone bill as a call return to the last number
that called me.
But this was a bad idea too...David, not being able to stand that I had
gotten away and
being your general asshole, had a trap put on his line and accused *me*
of cranking and
harrassing him.

I had to go to court, and try to explain to a judge that I was NOT
harrassing him. I
brought my phone records and an eye witness who would have testified
that I had been
at the school when his wife swore I was harrassing her, but the judge
told me that if I
wanted to plead not guilty, I would have to go to trial and face David.

I couldn't do it. I was scared of him, furious with him, and genuinely
in my heart believed
at the time that if I had to be in the same room with him, it would
drive me through the
gates of insanity. I had a shitty PD who was no help, so I pled no
contest to the charge
of making annoying phone calls, a misdemeanor, and paid a three hundred
dollar fine. I
was put on probation for three years, and that was the end of it. I was
never in jail.

Well, almost the end of it. On the strength of my pleading no contest,
he obtained a
restraining order against me instructing me to keep yada yada feet away
from him at all
times.

I assume the idea was fairly simple..David had planned to kill me. He
had been for
years. Getting a restraining order against ME insured that if he ever
decided to follow
through on his threats, no one would ever believe me or take me
seriously, and he would
be able to claim self defense. I don't know why he dropped it, or never
came back. For
all I know, he's still biding his time. He may know where I am right
now..he may have
forgotten all about me when his wife gave him a daughter. I don't know,
and live afraid
that one day he will show up.

If I had it do over again, as strong as I am today, I would face him in
court and send his
ass to jail for falsely accusing me. I have phone records which prove
that the phone
number of mine his trap caught ONLY had calls returning his...never a
direct call from
me to him. I have a witness and a signed affidavit attesting to the
fact that I was
somewhere else. But back then, I was weak, and afraid, and had no faith
in justice or
help or myself. I had been battered and raped by this man, and I was
convinced he was
going to get me, so I didn't fight.

That's why I have a misdemeanor record for making the calls (under a
stalking law but
NOT a conviction for stalking, something I hadn't known until very
recently) and why I was
on probation, NOT in jail or parole. One of these days I'll try to get
my record expunged
on the strength of the evidence I still have in the filing cabinet my
leg is touching right
now.

Until then, I am writing this and leaving it here. Every now and then,
someone not very
nice comes along, and tries to use this against me when I say to them
they have done
such and thus. I guess if they can try to point the finger at me, they
think people will stop
looking at them. But I never committed the crime, I never set out to or
thought about
hurting anyone, I never struggled with a desire to make crank calls.
This was done *to*
me, and this is the truth of it. So when one of those not nice souls
comes along, I'll just
point people here and leave this be my statement about the issue to
stand or not.

Panther

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Jul 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/1/00
to

Nope not lying at all liz..that's your forte.

Like I said......when you go after people in real life stalking them, and
have a felony stalking conviction.....people talk.......maybe they talk on
the phone...maybe they talk in the newgroups or boards......maybe they talk
in email......but they do talk about someone who has stalked and hurt their
friends on line.

You've lied about a lot of people here liz......you've made up
stories......you then continue to hound them and continue your lies. So you
say you gave your address to a few wrongly trusted people, they feel the
same way about you. Some even have said they fear you will get them in real
life and have voiced that. Why would they not tell each other your real
name? You who has shown so little honor toward anyone who dares to disagree
with you.

Your real story? Yah, right liz, do you know how hard it is to get a felony
conviction? Do you know how hard it is to get a felony conviction on a
first time offense? I know...and it's hard lis. Your story isn't any more
credible now than it most likely was the day you told it in court.....hence
your conviction.

So that is why you don't honor an x-no-archive: yes? Well I guess than you
can truely understand why the Pathfinder people have little regard for you.
Maybe some say you'll learn that being proud of being the "iron clad bitch"
has it's pitfalls if played out too long and puts you into too many peoples
faces and real lives. They tend after a while not to forget liz.


Now we're you going to go have some "quality" time with your family?

Panther


Liz Bateman wrote in message <395EB933...@pacbell.net>...

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
God I love fairy stories - don't you???? This one keeps changing every time
Liz tells it. Bottom line - how many here have ever seen the inside of a
courtroom as a defendant? As an accused defendant for stalking, or a felony of
any kind.

Looks around....... nope didn't think there would be many.

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
On 02 Jul 2000 04:43:42 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>God I love fairy stories - don't you????

Obviously you do, since you do your best to convince anyone
you can get to listen to your grossly distorted view of
reality.

>This one keeps changing every time
>Liz tells it. Bottom line

Bottom line!!! I'll give you a bottom line, the both of
you. You either have information which is contradictory to
what Liz states or you don't. I reckon it's high time for
the both of you to either shit or get off the pot. If you
have it, and I don't mean some trashy gossip you've heard
where ever, then bloody well post it or shut the fuck up.
You are no different than any abusive asshole when you
participate in such relentless bullying and lies to tear
someone down. And don't hand me that crap of having some
higher moral purpose. Abuse is abuse and lying is lying.
Period. Now how's that for a bottom line.

The both of you are so bloody transparent it's no wonder you
can't see yourself when you look in the mirror.

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <hh7tlssif8670sjt9...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>
>Bottom line!!! I'll give you a bottom line, the both of
>you. You either have information which is contradictory to
>what Liz states or you don't.

James does being so anal interfer with your daily routine??? I often wonder if
you are able to get through a day without breaking in half from the rigid
stuff.

But you are cute when you beat your chest and defend Liz.

And you are cute when you react right on cue.

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
On 02 Jul 2000 07:06:30 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <hh7tlssif8670sjt9...@4ax.com>, James Tolson

I was pretty sure you didn't have nary a skerick, you're
just being abusive.

So, Crisis, tell us. What are your "terms" for ending this?
What is it you want?

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 02:55:16 -0400, panther
<pan...@asarian-host.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>James,
>
>It is transparently clear to me that you are in love with me. I didn't
>think this could happen but then I guess it's just my winning personality
>
>:-)
>
>XXXXXXXXX((((((((((((( SMOOCH))))))))))))))XXXXXX
>
>There......
>
>Now isn't that better than kissing lix's ass all the time.
>
>Yes.... I thought so.
>
>Your eternal soulmate,
>
And I'm not the least bit surprised to find you have not a
single shred of evidence for your continued abusive lies
either. Just thought it was time for you to admit it.

>Panther


>
>> On 02 Jul 2000 04:43:42 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal) wrote:
>
>>> God I love fairy stories - don't you????
>>
>> Obviously you do, since you do your best to convince anyone you can get
>> to listen to your grossly distorted view of reality.
>>
>>> This one keeps changing every time Liz tells it. Bottom line
>>

>> Bottom line!!! I'll give you a bottom line, the both of you. You either
>> have information which is contradictory to what Liz states or you don't.

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
In article <i59tlscf8v5dl4vn7...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>
>So, Crisis, tell us. What are your "terms" for ending this?
>What is it you want?
>

Let me confer with my people and I will put an offer on the table Monday
morning.

Sheeeeze what drama...... lolol

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
In article <299tls4j7scag7n5u...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>And I'm not the least bit surprised to find you have not a
>single shred of evidence for your continued abusive lies
>either. Just thought it was time for you to admit it.
>

awwwww but not a word about the other stuff. sorry panther
he's all mine..... :-)

he does dance well doesn't he? Even if he looks like a fool when he does.

Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Hate to tell you Ginger......he ain't no Fred.

Panther

Crisis gal wrote in message
<20000702033410...@nso-de.aol.com>...

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <wgC75.12978$R7.5...@news-east.usenetserver.com>, "Panther"
<pan...@asarian-host.org> writes:

>Hate to tell you Ginger......he ain't no Fred.

now you've gone and done it. Fantasy dashed.

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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On 02 Jul 2000 07:34:10 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <299tls4j7scag7n5u...@4ax.com>, James Tolson


><Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>
>>And I'm not the least bit surprised to find you have not a
>>single shred of evidence for your continued abusive lies
>>either. Just thought it was time for you to admit it.
>>
>
>awwwww but not a word about the other stuff. sorry panther
>he's all mine..... :-)
>
>he does dance well doesn't he? Even if he looks like a fool when he does.

I'm not dancing with you, nor am I doing this for my
enjoyment or entertainment. I get no such thrill out of
hurting or stressing people as you apparently do if what you
say is to be believed. I've made my point, that being you
have nary a skerick of anything to back up your lies except
for pure and simple hate. Now who do you reckon looks the
fool here, for it most certainly isn't me. It's the both of
you.

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 03:26:44 -0400, panther
<pan...@asarian-host.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>Ohhh James,
>
>Ohhhh James.........James James James......ohhh.....ohhhhhhh OHHHHHHH....
>
>You simply made me orgasmatic when you talk dirty to me like that.
>
Geeze woman! Aren't you *ever* going to get the hint it
simply doesn't work with me!

>Panther


>
>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 02:55:16 -0400, panther <pan...@asarian-host.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>> James,
>>>
>>> It is transparently clear to me that you are in love with me. I didn't
>>> think this could happen but then I guess it's just my winning
>>> personality
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>
>>> XXXXXXXXX((((((((((((( SMOOCH))))))))))))))XXXXXX
>>>
>>> There......
>>>
>>> Now isn't that better than kissing lix's ass all the time.
>>>
>>> Yes.... I thought so.
>>>
>>> Your eternal soulmate,
>>>

>> And I'm not the least bit surprised to find you have not a single shred
>> of evidence for your continued abusive lies either. Just thought it was
>> time for you to admit it.
>>

Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to

James,

You didn't tell me you were impotent :-(

Panther (whispers in James ear....Viagra)

James Tolson wrote in message ...

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
In article <vkbtlsgii798iv9u1...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>
>I'm not dancing with you, nor am I doing this for my
>enjoyment or entertainment

Well then - its for noble causes?? Yeah???

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
In article <ftbtls8h07mpn99l2...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>Geeze woman! Aren't you *ever* going to get the hint it
>simply doesn't work with me!
>

Geeze James are you capable of ignoring anything???

poke poke

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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On 02 Jul 2000 08:35:38 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <ftbtls8h07mpn99l2...@4ax.com>, James Tolson

Yes, as has been evident a great amount of the time.

I now *choose* to stand up to two abusive lying bullies and
challenge you straight and plain and simple to either put up
or shut up. And you have once again *chosen* to avoid the
issue and continue with your abusive bull shit. Do you get
that, Crisis. I **CHOOSE** to challenge you to put up or
shut up. You are lying and you have nothing whatsoever left
but to do as you are doing right now. Redirection,
deflection, avoidance, and yet more abuse.

Now who do you reckon looks the complete fool?

Enjoy it, for you most certainly have made every effort to
deserve it. Now, care for some more?

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
On 02 Jul 2000 08:34:34 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <vkbtlsgii798iv9u1...@4ax.com>, James Tolson


><Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>
>>
>>I'm not dancing with you, nor am I doing this for my
>>enjoyment or entertainment
>
>Well then - its for noble causes?? Yeah???
>

It's because you are lying out your ass, and doing so to
stress and hurt one of your fellow survivors. Period. And
it's not the first time *by far* that you have done so.
Now, care to *actually* discuss that? Or do you prefer to
yet again avoid the issues?

Do you mind if I ask if you *really* think people can't see
that you are lying? Don't you even realize it yourself?
Now, what purpose could you possibly *think* you have for
lying about someone like you have so many times of late?

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
In article <gigtlsggjig1s6njf...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>t's because you are lying out your ass, and doing so to
>stress and hurt one of your fellow survivors.

Hurt Liz? Or Pat? Excuse me, but one needs only to read either of their
posting histories and that is pretty funny. Nope James you don't seem to
understand - I am under no obligation to discuss anything at all with you. I
told you days ago how you could stop me. Ignore me. Ignore my posts - move on
to discuss healing things and stop with the gang attacks on anyone here. You
are part of a group of people who have each in your own real world been accused
of the very acts that we all come here to heal from - by your own admissions
and in one manner or another. None of you have received treatment for it and
you have continued to as a group attack posters here and gotten away with doing
so.

Very few people post seriously here any more and go to other newsgroups for
that type of thing. Your petty jealousies and gang behavior have made this
place a place that is laughed at on the net. At the center of your little
group is a known net stalker and someone who has been convicted of it and/or
pleaded down in real life. Who on earth would believe that Liz feels anything
but the urge to manipulate. Again all one has to do is read her history with
other groups.

You can bluster and threaten and accuse all you want James and you will never
be anything but an impotent shell of a man who in my opinion ran away from his
responsibilities and spends his time in newsgroup that he has no reason to be
in for whatever sick reasons that are swirling around in his head. You James
are a laughing stock. You provide amusement and a lot of bandwidth but do you
for one moment think that you really make any difference in the scheme of
things?

For that matter do I? I think you give me far more power than I deserve. I
have no power in your life or Liz's or Pat's to either hurt or do anything.
The only power I could exert would be to enter your real life - which "I" have
not done and do not intend to. The way for you to stop me James is to simply
not read me - to hit the next button and not even see my words. But you and
your little group cannot do that. If I poke you jump. If anyone pokes you
jump - all of you in a pile.

I think what is amazing to me is that you don't see that. That you don't see
the little power you have over me or have the inclination to use it. That, in
and of itself makes you a baffoon. Because James you will answer this because
you have to and you will continue to answer because you have to and you will
not stop because it exites you.

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
In article <iagtlsc21h3hcosue...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

> now *choose* to stand up to two abusive lying bullies and
>challenge you straight and plain and simple to either put up
>or shut up.

I am so impressed.

banshee

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
Panther wrote:


Just a whole bunch more of the usual, innuendo, innuendo,
innuendo.

If you have nothing to say, why don't you just shut up and
do what you do best?

Which is those posts where you say "welcome to aar". You
are the perfect hostess, panther, but whenever you try
saying anything more. it never measures up.

jean

banshee

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Crisis gal wrote:

Ahh, first we hear from Dumb, and now we hear from Dumber.


>
> God I love fairy stories - don't you???? This one keeps changing every time
> Liz tells it. Bottom line - how many here have ever seen the inside of a

banshee

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
Crisis gal wrote:
>
> In article <hh7tlssif8670sjt9...@4ax.com>, James Tolson

> <Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>
> >
> >Bottom line!!! I'll give you a bottom line, the both of
> >you. You either have information which is contradictory to
> >what Liz states or you don't.
>
> James does being so anal interfer with your daily routine??? I often wonder if
> you are able to get through a day without breaking in half from the rigid
> stuff.
>
> But you are cute when you beat your chest and defend Liz.
>
> And you are cute when you react right on cue.

And here is Suzanne, posting at 3 in the morning once
again. Can't sleep suzanne, or just too many friends and
family in your life to get to this sooner?

That must be it. We know how incredibly full your life is,
after all.

jean

banshee

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
panther wrote:
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Ohhh James,
>
> Ohhhh James.........James James James......ohhh.....ohhhhhhh OHHHHHHH....
>
> You simply made me orgasmatic when you talk dirty to me like that.
>
> Panther

James doesn't want you panther. Does anybody? Is that what
your problem is?

Poor you.

jean

>
> > On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 02:55:16 -0400, panther <pan...@asarian-host.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >>
> >> James,
> >>
> >> It is transparently clear to me that you are in love with me. I didn't
> >> think this could happen but then I guess it's just my winning
> >> personality
> >>
> >>:-)
> >>
> >> XXXXXXXXX((((((((((((( SMOOCH))))))))))))))XXXXXX
> >>
> >> There......
> >>
> >> Now isn't that better than kissing lix's ass all the time.
> >>
> >> Yes.... I thought so.
> >>
> >> Your eternal soulmate,
> >>
> > And I'm not the least bit surprised to find you have not a single shred
> > of evidence for your continued abusive lies either. Just thought it was
> > time for you to admit it.
> >
> >> Panther
> >>

> >>> On 02 Jul 2000 04:43:42 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> God I love fairy stories - don't you????
> >>>

> >>> Obviously you do, since you do your best to convince anyone you can get
> >>> to listen to your grossly distorted view of reality.
> >>>

> >>>> This one keeps changing every time Liz tells it. Bottom line
> >>>

> >>> Bottom line!!! I'll give you a bottom line, the both of you. You either
> >>> have information which is contradictory to what Liz states or you

> >>> don't. I reckon it's high time for the both of you to either shit or
> >>> get off the pot. If you have it, and I don't mean some trashy gossip
> >>> you've heard where ever, then bloody well post it or shut the fuck up.
> >>> You are no different than any abusive asshole when you participate in
> >>> such relentless bullying and lies to tear someone down. And don't hand
> >>> me that crap of having some higher moral purpose. Abuse is abuse and
> >>> lying is lying. Period. Now how's that for a bottom line.
> >>>
> >>> The both of you are so bloody transparent it's no wonder you can't see
> >>> yourself when you look in the mirror.
> >>>

> >>>> - how many here have ever seen the inside of a courtroom as a
> >>>> defendant? As an accused defendant for stalking, or a felony of any
> >>>> kind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Looks around....... nope didn't think there would be many.
>

> --
> For more information about this posting service, contact:
> he...@asarian-host.org -- for all info about our server.
> If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page:
>
> http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html

banshee

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Crisis gal wrote:
>
> In article <iagtlsc21h3hcosue...@4ax.com>, James Tolson

> <Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>
> > now *choose* to stand up to two abusive lying bullies and
> >challenge you straight and plain and simple to either put up
> >or shut up.
>
> I am so impressed.

another devestating zinger from that super intelligent
crisis.

you see, he tells you that you have nothing but insults and
hatred to offer.

And you come back to him with more insults and hatred.

You have nothing to say that reflects fact, reality or
intellect.

Now whatcha going to say to that, crisis? hehe.

jean

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Wrong again, Crisis. I answer this for one specific
purpose, that being to stand up to your lies and allow you
to show that those lies have nothing of substance behind
them. And you, in the greatest of cooperation, do exactly
as expected. :o) So, for what it's worth, thanks for
showing who you are and exactly what you are about. Many
here would never believe me, but find it impossible to deny
when it comes from your own hand. You are your own worst
enemy. Keep it up though, I'm sure there are still two or
three people who don't quite believe you can be so....
well, *you*. Thanks again.

As to all the hog wash below....

On 02 Jul 2000 11:33:10 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <gigtlsggjig1s6njf...@4ax.com>, James Tolson

James Tolson

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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On Sun, 02 Jul 2000 12:09:48 GMT, banshee
<jean_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Crisis gal wrote:
>>
>> In article <iagtlsc21h3hcosue...@4ax.com>, James Tolson


>> <Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>>
>> > now *choose* to stand up to two abusive lying bullies and
>> >challenge you straight and plain and simple to either put up
>> >or shut up.
>>
>> I am so impressed.
>
>
>
>another devestating zinger from that super intelligent
>crisis.
>
>you see, he tells you that you have nothing but insults and
>hatred to offer.
>
>And you come back to him with more insults and hatred.
>
>You have nothing to say that reflects fact, reality or
>intellect.
>
>Now whatcha going to say to that, crisis? hehe.
>

Well, my best guess would be the same as most anyone caught
with their pants down.....

to shit all over everything.

>jean


Liz Bateman

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Jean, please read my post titled 'James'

banshee wrote:

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <eottls8q2p44qed2e...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>Well, my best guess would be the same as most anyone caught
>with their pants down.....
>
>to shit all over everything.
>

how special.

poke poke

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <jattls4lbib7l9cjr...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>Wrong again, Crisis. I answer this for one specific
>purpose, that being to stand up to your lies and allow you
>to show that those lies have nothing of substance behind
>them.

Lololol - yep

poke poke

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <395F305C...@hotmail.com>, banshee <jean_c...@hotmail.com>
writes:

>ou see, he tells you that you have nothing but insults and
>hatred to offer.

No actually I don't read his content - I stopped that long ago. And james does
not define me. The idea of using anything the group of you post about anyone
to define them is ridiculous - one poke and you come out with a raft of
insults. Yep yep yep I sure am going to take that to heart.


>
>And you come back to him with more insults and hatred.

Nope - I poke him again and he dances - right on cue
>

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <395F2F47...@hotmail.com>, banshee <jean_c...@hotmail.com>
writes:

>James doesn't want you panther. Does anybody? Is that what
>your problem is?
>
>Poor you.
>

Lets talk about using sexuality to define who you are Jean - has it brought you
happiness to offer your body first and your brain second? Does it help your
self image to behave in that way? Oh yep - we can see that - how helpful it is
to you.

But again you do dance well - but you also seem to step on your own feet.

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <395F2DD3...@hotmail.com>, banshee <jean_c...@hotmail.com>
writes:

>And here is Suzanne, posting at 3 in the morning once
>again. Can't sleep suzanne, or just too many friends and
>family in your life to get to this sooner?
>

Actually I slept for 24 hours after my trip - just slept eight more.
Eventually I will sleep but we all stayed away for a while and had a party.
Fun - you know - the smiling thing-laughter? Getting together with friends and
laughing till your sides hurt? Stuff that doesn't happen on #aar anymore - too
much intrigue.

Poke poke - but you still dance well

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <395F2CE3...@hotmail.com>, banshee <jean_c...@hotmail.com>
writes:

>Ahh, first we hear from Dumb, and now we hear from Dumber.
>

Yep that would be us. Its amazing how well we do out in the real world being
so dumb - but you keep on keeping on here jean - and by all means keep on
dancing.

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <395F2C83...@hotmail.com>, banshee <jean_c...@hotmail.com>
writes:

>Which is those posts where you say "welcome to aar". You
>are the perfect hostess, panther, but whenever you try
>saying anything more. it never measures up.
>

Well it does often boil down to that - jealousy.

Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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banshee wrote in message <395F2C83...@hotmail.com>...

>Panther wrote:
>
>
>Just a whole bunch more of the usual, innuendo, innuendo,
>innuendo.

well at least I can remember when I've said something jean.


>
>If you have nothing to say, why don't you just shut up and
>do what you do best?


which one? I'm multitalented :-)


>
>Which is those posts where you say "welcome to aar".


Yes I like welcoming people to aar :-) I value their input too. Unlike
some people who tell them that they have not been around here long enough to
have an opinion. Hummmm lets see.......if a person is to knew..their
opinion is invalidated and they are treated condenscendingly....if they've
been around long then they are liars for their opinions :-) Let
see........guess that just leave......you 5 who have truely valid
opinion..right??? Ok....got that straight now :-)

You
>are the perfect hostess, panther,


Thank you jean :-) It's been a long standing talent of mine. I love
meeting people in person and I love cooking for a crowd.


but whenever you try
>saying anything more. it never measures up.


fortunately I don't place my value on what others might think. You'll find
that it comes with recovery. :-)

Panther

Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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banshee wrote in message <395F2F47...@hotmail.com>...

>panther wrote:
>>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> Ohhh James,
>>
>> Ohhhh James.........James James James......ohhh.....ohhhhhhh OHHHHHHH....
>>
>> You simply made me orgasmatic when you talk dirty to me like that.
>>
>> Panther
>
>James doesn't want you panther. Does anybody? Is that what
>your problem is?
>
>Poor you.
>
>jean


Oh ok jean......you can have him. You two make such a cute couple anyway.

I hope someday that he will pay for you to take a trip out to see him :-)

My self worth isn't based on anyone else actually. Do you know that many
people search a whole lifetime looking to others to fill that hole they
feel within themselves? They don't realize that what is needed is to value
and love themselves.....no one else can replace what another person is
missing and no one else can do that for you.

I hope you find yourself someday jean and learn to like yourself too. It
makes all the difference in the world :-)

Panther

Crisis gal

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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In article <q1P75.18972$R7.9...@news-east.usenetserver.com>, "Panther"
<pan...@asarian-host.org> writes:

>My self worth isn't based on anyone else actually. Do you know that many
>people search a whole lifetime looking to others to fill that hole they
>feel within themselves? They don't realize that what is needed is to value
>and love themselves.....no one else can replace what another person is
>missing and no one else can do that for you.
>
>I hope you find yourself someday jean and learn to like yourself too. It
>makes all the difference in the world :-)
>
>Panther
>

Amen to that Ms. Panther - amen...

Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Yes.....actually I think it is the hardest thing that a person from a
dysfuntional family can learn :-( sexual abuse or not.

I pity lix's child who put that note on her refrigerator :-( it's the
dysfunction of generations :-(

Panther

Crisis gal wrote in message
<20000702190421...@nso-dd.aol.com>...

spike

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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Liz Bateman wrote:

> Noel is lying. She did discuss trying to find David, and she did so
> very vocally and anyone who wants to go back about a year can find her
> posts and the responses to them still archived. I have indeed discussed
> the area in which I live, and gave the address to a few wrongly trusted
> people who gave it out to everyone else. However, I did NOT use my real
> name online anywhere. It was Suzanne and Sherrie who outed my real last
> name, and those posts are archived as well. I will grant that Suzanne
> at first agreed to honor that confidence, but she then did not. At that
> point, there seemed little point in trying to hide it because they would
> just keep using it. This is the main reason I refuse to honor their
> x-no archive issues.
>

noel, suzanne and sherrie. why not worry about lix or lix's recovery issues?

>
> In the meantime, this is the story of my 'stalking' conviction:
>
> A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, there lived a galactic
> princess named Liz....
>

Ah so you where changed into a toad ok now i am getting your side of this.

this is right of springer. your abusive boy friend married your mom.

>
> She and I had a falling out, and I began to get crank calls at my home.
> I knew it was
> David...I never even questioned it. I figured if he had my number he
> probably had my
> address too, and I guess I was hoping to convince him he couldn't scare
> me anymore.
> Each time he called and hung up, I immediately dialed call return, to
> let him know I knew
> it was him. I would say something like 'stop it, David' and hang up.
>

the lession is what? don't take the law into your own hands? you didn't
think the police would be better able to fix this?

>
> This went on for a few months, not long really...I never called him
> directly, never once.
> Each call to him is on my phone bill as a call return to the last number
> that called me.
> But this was a bad idea too...David, not being able to stand that I had
> gotten away and
> being your general asshole, had a trap put on his line and accused *me*
> of cranking and
> harrassing him.
>

So the records show that he was calling you and the court cleared you??

>
> I had to go to court, and try to explain to a judge that I was NOT
> harrassing him. I
> brought my phone records and an eye witness who would have testified
> that I had been
> at the school when his wife swore I was harrassing her, but the judge
> told me that if I
> wanted to plead not guilty, I would have to go to trial and face David.
>

His wife why? i though david was calling you what does his wife have to do
with this, and just to check his wife is who?? In relation to you? So you
must have jumped at the chance to face your abuser and now accuser, the
judge sounds like a fine person!

>
> I couldn't do it. I was scared of him, furious with him, and genuinely
> in my heart believed
> at the time that if I had to be in the same room with him, it would
> drive me through the
> gates of insanity.

yeah i can understand that me being shot and having to defend myself in
court againt 5 cops from 3 seperate forces was very worrying to me, but my
way of thinking is just stand up for the truth and you win, so i did. no you
though eh?

> I had a shitty PD who was no help,

i had a lame lawyer so i fired his ass and took over.


> so I pled no
> contest to the charge
> of making annoying phone calls, a misdemeanor, and paid a three hundred
> dollar fine.

so you are guilty in the eyes of the law and courts.


> I
> was put on probation for three years, and that was the end of it. I was
> never in jail.

three years gosh so long eh? did it help correct your behaviour?

>
>
> Well, almost the end of it. On the strength of my pleading no contest,
> he obtained a

> restraining order against me instructing me to keep yada yada feet away
> from him at all
> times.
>

But if he was talking you, shouldn't you have got that deal??? Your where
brought before the courts for bothering his wife but the court ordered you
to stay away from him? That is weird. Did they give any reason?

>
> I assume the idea was fairly simple..David had planned to kill me.

Gosh that's serious. But if you had to stay away from him (by law) would
take make murder a bit harder? Gosh lost of that going around eh? You wre
just saying greg was planning a murder, the cops are bothing survivor ladies
about killings this issue kind follows or stalks you eh lix? So what
happened next??


> He
> had been for
> years.

It's geting hitchcock-like now, years of planning you say.

> Getting a restraining order against ME insured that if he ever
> decided to follow
> through on his threats, no one would ever believe me or take me
> seriously, and he would
> be able to claim self defense.

The deviousness or the three year plan is staggering, the old i didn't kill
her, cuz she lured me into a trap, broke the court order attacked me and i
had to defend myself. This is the idea? The whole thing was a smokescreeen
for a murder plot. You were convicted of felony stalking as part of a
diabolicale plan to murder you?

> I don't know why he dropped it, or never
> came back. For
> all I know, he's still biding his time.

Gosh lix he is ready to pounce, to spring the trap at any second?


> He may know where I am right
> now..he may have
> forgotten all about me when his wife gave him a daughter.

No i dought it, a loving wife and kid verses all of you and 3 kids? i
suspect he is planing and sceming at this very second to win the affictions
of you. That or take you out as part of his long term plan.


> I don't know,
> and live afraid
> that one day he will show up.
>

Well if that is try why do you stick out like a score thumb? If he does
lylie will protect you.


>
> If I had it do over again, as strong as I am today, I would face him in
> court and send his
> ass to jail for falsely accusing me.

Yes well you had to plead right?? That murder plot and he had raped you, so
the courts couldn't help from my view the courts there oj didn't do it and
you where a victim of a murder plot..


> I have phone records which prove
> that the phone
> number of mine his trap caught ONLY had calls returning his...never a
> direct call from
> me to him.

So that is why you pleaded no conest, because you have proof you didn't do
it? Gosh it's different here when you have proof you didn't do it you plead
not guilty, but in cali you plead guilty eh?


> I have a witness and a signed affidavit attesting to the
> fact that I was
> somewhere else.

Ok so clearly you didn't do it, but to get into the witness protection plan
you said you did? To aviod a hit? that is what you are saying? cuz with all
the proof, it's a miscarrage of justice are these papers on your page?


> But back then, I was weak, and afraid, and had no faith
> in justice or
> help or myself.

wow lix that is some story all i can say is your justice system is broken,
you get beaten and raped and get convicted for fenoly stalking, that judge
was an idiot was is his name, becuse he should lose his job, have you wrote
to him/her and explained how he helped a rapists and destroyed a part of
your life?


> I had been battered and raped by this man, and I was
> convinced he was
> going to get me, so I didn't fight.
>
> That's why I have a misdemeanor record for making the calls (under a
> stalking law but
> NOT a conviction for stalking, something I hadn't known until very
> recently) and why I was
> on probation, NOT in jail or parole. One of these days I'll try to get
> my record expunged
> on the strength of the evidence I still have in the filing cabinet my
> leg is touching right
> now.
>

Yes well i 'm sure looking forward to seeing it and i will even contact the
powers that be and explain that it's not nice to help rapests especially
given the files you have to prove this miscarrage of justice.


>
> Until then, I am writing this and leaving it here. Every now and then,
> someone not very
> nice comes along, and tries to use this against me when I say to them
> they have done
> such and thus. I guess if they can try to point the finger at me, they
> think people will stop
> looking at them. But I never committed the crime, I never set out to or
> thought about
> hurting anyone, I never struggled with a desire to make crank calls.
> This was done *to*
> me, and this is the truth of it. So when one of those not nice souls
> comes along, I'll just
> point people here and leave this be my statement about the issue to
> stand or not.

yeah lix, ppl would have actually thought you were a liar, but of course,
you got a felony conviction for stalking because david tried to kill you,
right? that explains much.
spike


Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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she's right Andy......she was a toad........I WILL not tell a lie......

Panther


spike wrote in message <395FF884...@asarian-host.org>...

Panther

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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James Tolson wrote in message ...
>On 03 Jul 2000 02:05:25 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <bd6vlskolrhpesagl...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
>><Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>>
>>>nd I do so wish everyone would pay no attention to your
>>>deflective hog wash and stick to the point. At deflection
>>>and misdirection, I must admit you have a masterful touch.
>>>
>>
>>Well james you could start by setting an example of how to pay no
attention -
>>however as I said - you cannot.
>
>Wrong again, Crisis. I *can*, but consciously **choose** to
>stand right in your face when you lie so blatantly about
>someone. You have the choice to stop your lies or deal with
>me calling them lies. You "can not" do either, and
>*everyone* here sees you unable to do either. That was and
>is my solitary goal in this, in which you have performed
>exactly as expected.

James, don't you understand you did stand in her face.....making
judgements....discounting her opinion.....like so many others......oh
yeah.....but they are stupid......only you have a valid
opinion........didin't your the lawyers believe you.....is that why you
stamp over everyone who disagrees with you?.........James, not everyone
agrees that looking up a daughter snatch is relevant.......Crisis wasn't
there when you did that......she was not your wife who thought that was
inapproiate.....she was not the person who brought any type of judgement
against you.....if you have a problem......go after your wife.....you don't
have to run to Australia to get away from it.......

Crisis is not the person who accused you of being inappropriate with your
daughter in front of your other children......your wife was..... and Crisis
was not the one to accused pat of abusing her children either, that was
srs.....not crisis....... you two need to go after your real
accusers......lix......crisis is not your mother who does not approve of
you......you need to confront her....your mother......jean.....crisis didn't
take your children away......the booze did that....is that why you don't
remember accusing ppl of things they did not do?

>
>Now, care to lie about anyone else?


Most ppl don't.....why do you......

Panther

gardenia

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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hmmm.. thing is.. those matters were cleared up long time ago. what
remained were the emotional scars.. my son lives right around the corner
from me.. there never was any abuse outside some sick fool's vivid
imgination..

It is you and Suzanne Foubert who keep insisting on putting those issues out
there as a means to hurt either or both of us, depending on who you wish to
stab in the back at the moment..

You bitch about my generic talk about false memory and accussations..

You do much much worse...


Panther <pan...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
news:AcU75.22991$R7.10...@news-east.usenetserver.com...

Liz Bateman

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
to
James, she's insane. She's an old, loony bitch and she doesn't matter
at all in the big scheme of things. THAT'S what's upsetting her.

Let it go...the dumb bimbo is toilet paper.

James Tolson wrote:
>
> On 03 Jul 2000 03:42:15 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <395FF884...@asarian-host.org>, spike <sp...@asarian-host.org>
> >writes:


> >
> >>
> >>yeah lix, ppl would have actually thought you were a liar, but of course,
> >>you got a felony conviction for stalking because david tried to kill you,
> >>right? that explains much.
> >>spike
> >>
> >>
> >

> >LOLOLOL
> >
> >Thanks for clearing all that up spike....
>
> And here we get to see you yet again laughing at someone
> lying about another *survivor*, and referring to those lies
> as "clearing all that up". How can you justify approving of
> *anyone* lying in an attempt to degrade a *survivor*. How
> can you justify yourself lying about *anyone* to cause them
> stress, pain, or to cause anyone to think less of them or
> believe something which is not true? **NOTHING** you can
> say or do changes a lie into anything but a lie. You can't
> wash it away with a good deed. You can't discount your lies
> about another because these aren't "real" people you are
> lying about. What is the problem with you that you continue
> to lie and condone lying with laughing and apparent glee?
>
> Perhaps you need to refresh your memory on what a lie is,
> for it certainly seems you have it confused with some
> acceptable or honorable behavior, which it most definitely
> is not.
>
> Lie
>
> 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
> 2 : to create a false or misleading impression
>
> (C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster,
> Incorporated. All rights reserved.

James Tolson

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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On 02 Jul 2000 19:26:18 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <395F2F47...@hotmail.com>, banshee <jean_c...@hotmail.com>
>writes:
>


>>James doesn't want you panther. Does anybody? Is that what
>>your problem is?
>>
>>Poor you.
>>
>

>Lets talk about using sexuality to define who you are Jean

Of course you want to talk about **anything** but what began
this mess. **Your** and Panther's outright LIES about
someone here for the specific purpose of hurting them.

It is more than noticeable that you can not and will not
directly address those lies, no more than you have the
previous lies you have told to hurt others. There can be
only one reason for that.

Now you can distract from that fact as much as you wish and
stir up as much crap as you wish as a cover, but nothing you
can do will change the fact you were lying.

And I do so wish everyone would pay no attention to your


deflective hog wash and stick to the point. At deflection
and misdirection, I must admit you have a masterful touch.

>- has it brought you

Crisis gal

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
to
In article <bd6vlskolrhpesagl...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>nd I do so wish everyone would pay no attention to your
>deflective hog wash and stick to the point. At deflection
>and misdirection, I must admit you have a masterful touch.
>

Well james you could start by setting an example of how to pay no attention -

James Tolson

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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On 03 Jul 2000 02:05:25 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <bd6vlskolrhpesagl...@4ax.com>, James Tolson

Wrong again, Crisis. I *can*, but consciously **choose** to


stand right in your face when you lie so blatantly about
someone. You have the choice to stop your lies or deal with
me calling them lies. You "can not" do either, and
*everyone* here sees you unable to do either. That was and
is my solitary goal in this, in which you have performed
exactly as expected.

Now, care to lie about anyone else?

Crisis gal

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
to

>


>yeah lix, ppl would have actually thought you were a liar, but of course,
>you got a felony conviction for stalking because david tried to kill you,
>right? that explains much.
>spike
>
>

LOLOLOL

Crisis gal

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
to
In article <e2dvls40ddf1nk2ci...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>Wrong again, Crisis. I *can*, but consciously **choose** to
>stand right in your face when you lie so blatantly about
>someone.

And you will look exactly as you do - as an impotent baffoon


You have the choice to stop your lies or deal with
>me calling them lies.

oh boy - I'm sure trembling - gasp gasp....... call them apple fritters james -
it means about as much - psst..... this is the net james - get over it.

You "can not" do either, and
>*everyone* here sees you unable to do either.

I "can" do anything I like within reason. No one here is paying these threads
much attention at all.

That was and
>is my solitary goal in this, in which you have performed
>exactly as expected.

Yeah yeah - James it works like this - poke poke...... yadda yadda and so forth
and so forth and so forth. You still have the power.


>
>Now, care to lie about anyone else?
>
>

Sure who did you have in mind this time?
>

James Tolson

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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On 03 Jul 2000 03:42:15 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
wrote:

>In article <395FF884...@asarian-host.org>, spike <sp...@asarian-host.org>
>writes:
>
>>


>>yeah lix, ppl would have actually thought you were a liar, but of course,
>>you got a felony conviction for stalking because david tried to kill you,
>>right? that explains much.
>>spike
>>
>>
>

>LOLOLOL
>
>Thanks for clearing all that up spike....

And here we get to see you yet again laughing at someone

James Tolson

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:33:19 -0400, "Panther"
<pan...@asarian-host.org> wrote:

>
>James Tolson wrote in message ...

>>On 03 Jul 2000 02:05:25 GMT, cris...@aol.com (Crisis gal)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <bd6vlskolrhpesagl...@4ax.com>, James Tolson


>>><Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:
>>>
>>>>nd I do so wish everyone would pay no attention to your
>>>>deflective hog wash and stick to the point. At deflection
>>>>and misdirection, I must admit you have a masterful touch.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well james you could start by setting an example of how to pay no
>attention -
>>>however as I said - you cannot.
>>

>>Wrong again, Crisis. I *can*, but consciously **choose** to
>>stand right in your face when you lie so blatantly about

>>someone. You have the choice to stop your lies or deal with
>>me calling them lies. You "can not" do either, and
>>*everyone* here sees you unable to do either. That was and


>>is my solitary goal in this, in which you have performed
>>exactly as expected.
>

>James, don't you understand you did stand in her face.....

What I understand is that you have a difficult time
comprehending what is said and frequently it goes into your
brain backwards from how it's said. I'm not going to
suggest I know *why* you have such difficulty, but it is
obvious you do. Now, on the second go round, try to pay
attention. I consciously **choose** to stand right in her,
and your, face when either of you lie so blatantly about
someone. So... Yes, **I** *DO* understand I did stand in
her face. You're the one with comprehension problems, not
me. Pull your head out of your ass for a few moments.
Maybe then everything will not appear backwards and upside
down to you. Sheesh woman. It's English. It shouldn't be
that bloody difficult!

>making judgements....

You got that right! And a judgement call on a blatant lie
is not all that difficult either, since there are no
alternatives to consider. Remember, you were participating
in that lie as well.

>discounting her opinion.....

Hog Wash! A lie is *not* an opinion. An opinion is a view,
judgement, or appraisal formed in the mind about a
particular matter. An opinion is *not* stated as fact, nor
used to brow beat another with. A lie is making an untrue
statement with the intent to deceive *or* to create a false
or misleading impression. The both of you were lying. So
stuff your crap about it being an opinion. Present it as
such and it will be accepted and treated as such. The both
of you were lying, as you continue to do at this moment.

>like so many others......oh yeah.....but they are stupid......

You call it what you wish and be responsible for your words.
I'll call a lie a lie and be responsible for my words.

>only you have a valid opinion........

Hog Wash! Pure dee hog wash. Opinions don't have anything
whatsoever to do with either you or Crisis lying. They were
and are lies. Period.

As to the hog wash below, if there were even an ounce of
truth in it, even one single instance, I might consider
responding. As it is and for what it's worth....

>didin't your the lawyers believe you.....is that why you
>stamp over everyone who disagrees with you?.........James, not everyone
>agrees that looking up a daughter snatch is relevant.......Crisis wasn't
>there when you did that......she was not your wife who thought that was
>inapproiate.....she was not the person who brought any type of judgement
>against you.....if you have a problem......go after your wife.....you don't
>have to run to Australia to get away from it.......
>
>Crisis is not the person who accused you of being inappropriate with your
>daughter in front of your other children......your wife was..... and Crisis
>was not the one to accused pat of abusing her children either, that was
>srs.....not crisis....... you two need to go after your real
>accusers......lix......crisis is not your mother who does not approve of
>you......you need to confront her....your mother......jean.....crisis didn't
>take your children away......the booze did that....is that why you don't
>remember accusing ppl of things they did not do?
>
>>

>>Now, care to lie about anyone else?
>
>

spike

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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Hi Panther;

So all we gots ta do, is find a prince to kiss lix? Uhh, that may actually be a
problem. We would be hard pressed to get a dog named prince to do the lix thing
on her. Maybe if we spread bacon fat (more than the normal amout she uses as
part of her beauty treatments.)

But it's a very interesting story, murder, a love triangle, forced conviction,
rape beatings, if true i explains what she is so nasty. I'd like to hear names,
and see some papers not to just validate lix's story, a very helpful thing in
it's self, but to allow her to heal speaking out can help if you are not guilty
as we have just learned.

Hope you are well and enjoyed the story,
spike
ps <giggle> no i was not stalking him, he was trying to murder me. It's all a
misunderatnding. It's not as ludicris as it appears, she is trying to prove he
has lost touch with relatily and is insane and therefor not guilty. I agree with
this. Only it's a bit late. I'd hate to be a lawyer if ppl told stories like
this to me.

Crisis gal

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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In article <8jp6ff$9aq$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, "gardenia"
<pat...@hotmail.com> writes:

>
>You bitch about my generic talk about false memory and accussations..
>
>You do much much worse...
>
>

poke poke

Crisis gal

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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In article <2h30ms03ngecq23jf...@4ax.com>, James Tolson
<Ja...@RemoveThis.nbc.ii.net> writes:

>And here we get to see you yet again laughing at someone
>lying about another *survivor*, and referring to those lies
>as "clearing all that up".

wow you guys even dance when no one plays the music!!!!

gardenia

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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anyone smelll squid been sitting in the sun all day.... ewwwwwwww
not squid.. it's Suzanne.. bait bait

Crisis gal <cris...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000703022218...@nso-dd.aol.com...

Panther

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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Lawyers hear all kinds of stories....that's why they are paid big bucks I
suspect :-)

Panther


spike wrote in message <39601C46...@asarian-host.org>...

spike

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Hehe so that's the best or only reason you can come up with as to why they are
spineless bloodsuckers feeding on pain and suffering? Well i didn't think where
was a reason but i guess you found one.
spike

Panther

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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I think I have a whole folder of lawyer jokes somewhere on my hard drive!

Panther


spike wrote in message <3961A3E7...@asarian-host.org>...

spike

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Hi Panther;

Yikes a folder full? Gosh i sure hope that other files along side it don't get
corrupted.
Hope you are well.
spike

Panther

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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I'm well...left a message on icq for you

Panther
spike <sp...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
news:39625CB5...@asarian-host.org...

Panther

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Actually I've been pretty lucky with the attorney's I've had...well except
for the first one which I fired.

Panther


crisisgal <cris...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
news:2000070421...@asarian-host.org...
> x-no-archive: yes


>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Panther <pan...@asarian-host.org>
> Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 8:03 AM
> Subject: Re: My 'stalking' conviction
>
> > I think I have a whole folder of lawyer jokes somewhere on my hard
drive!
> >
> > Panther
>

> I lived em for 25 years. :-)

spike

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Hi Panther i'll check now.
Take care,
spike

spike

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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They don't take the news very well, do they:-)

But when you get a lawyer and you are charged with felony stalking, but it's
really just a big misunderstanding and you are really just a victim of a
murder plot, you keep the lawyer and plead guilty, that's what lix would
advise. And she told us she is smart?
spike

Panther wrote:

> Actually I've been pretty lucky with the attorney's I've had...well except
> for the first one which I fired.
>
> Panther
>
> crisisgal <cris...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
> news:2000070421...@asarian-host.org...
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Panther <pan...@asarian-host.org>
> > Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 8:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: My 'stalking' conviction
> >

> > > I think I have a whole folder of lawyer jokes somewhere on my hard
> drive!
> > >
> > > Panther
> >

spike

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Jul 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/5/00
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Hi Panther;

Hope you are sleeping well.

If you plead guilty, you can't appeal. It's just a wild story spins.

Good Morning;
spike


panther wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Must have been a temporary brain fart on her part spike.....granted a very
> big and loud one.
>
> Panther


>
> > They don't take the news very well, do they:-)
> >
> > But when you get a lawyer and you are charged with felony stalking, but
> > it's really just a big misunderstanding and you are really just a victim
> > of a murder plot, you keep the lawyer and plead guilty, that's what lix
> > would advise. And she told us she is smart? spike
> >
> > Panther wrote:
> >
> >> Actually I've been pretty lucky with the attorney's I've had...well
> >> except for the first one which I fired.
> >>
> >> Panther
> >>
> >> crisisgal <cris...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
> >> news:2000070421...@asarian-host.org...
> >>
> >> > x-no-archive: yes
> >> >
>
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Panther <pan...@asarian-host.org>
>
> >> > Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 8:03 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: My 'stalking' conviction
>
> >> > > I think I have a whole folder of lawyer jokes somewhere on my hard
> >> > > drive!
> >> > >
> >> > > Panther
> >> >
> >> > I lived em for 25 years
>

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